The Red Menace

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Viv S
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 09 Apr 2010 16:31

Kavu wrote:I am going to go a bit off topic. It is the same Indian idioticy which led to recognition of Tibet but not AP. The same talk about Kashmir, but conveniently forgot about PoK. India sometimes looses their way talking. It is quite evident, this is NO time to talk. It sends the wrong msg to all stake holders and enemies.


I believe the recognition of Tibet was a quid-pro-quo action for Chinese recognition of Sikkim. Also AFAIK all talks so far address the entire(erstwhile) state of Jammu and Kashmir. Musharraf's joint governance proposal for example applied to both parts.

With regard to the Maoists, you're absolutely right. They don't recognize India's right to exist as a democratic state and have no intention of disarming whatsoever. Any talks (preceded by the inevitable ceasefire) only gives them time to recoup and reorganize their beleaguered(contrary to what recent events may suggest) organisation.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Suppiah » 09 Apr 2010 17:06

Singha wrote:Maybe the yuvaraj could take over - entering at a high level than as minister of state?
:mrgreen:


The yuvraj, to quote a BusinessLine journalist, is 'considered unfit for any role other than that of Prime Minister'

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby skaranam » 09 Apr 2010 17:13

Sachin wrote:
Suppiah wrote:In any case, he is the best bet, if he goes there is always a chance that one of their puppets planted in Congress by Stalinists in the mould of Arjun Singh or Patil will take his place...

^^^^
+1. PC seems to be the better amongst the lot. What we really dont want at this time is a gent like Shivraj Patil :). The "resignation drama" also seems to be a kind of chankian move against the opposition. If some opposition starts whining that PC should take moral responsibility and resign (as if that is the solution to the problem), he can at once shoot it down saying he had already offered his resignation.


Not to mention it a point to CM of WB, who criticized the Home Minister for using slang like "buck stops here" and show how to take responsibility.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby brihaspati » 09 Apr 2010 17:25

If only PC read this thread! :( :P At least I had been warning him not to "overdo" it so publicly without roping in the political foxes... at least one of the dynasty urged to make the proper noises of rousing sentiments politically against the Maoists. It was only a matter of time before he would find himself in a tongue-biting situation. As HM he should be more privy to the type of possible alliances I have been writing about that can exist behind the Maoists. The network would do anything to delegitimize him slowly and surely.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Muppalla » 09 Apr 2010 17:52

AjayKK wrote:Dynasty vs government -R Jagannathan in DNA on the reasons for the gap between thought and action by the GoI on the red menace.

http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/main-article_dynasty-vs-government_1368625

Well written. Read in full. Reminded me of the point Muppalla's made in one thread :eek:


I breifly made similar point in this post here - viewtopic.php?p=852959#p852959
That was an excellent article with full of facts. Politics will take over national importance. KHAM factor is under full revival as congress see its future in it only.

Singha wrote:PC has definitely lost some hair and looks older and tired now compared to FinMin days. HM is not picnic in this rough neighbourhood. either it needs a good man or patilji types who would sleep through a JDAM attack on nai dilli.

Pranabda is too old for the high stress of such a post probably.

Maybe the yuvaraj could take over - entering at a high level than as minister of state?
:mrgreen:


PC is so far all talk and strategy. There are some achivements though but not significant enough for the modern challenges that India is facing. Even as FM he used to talk a lot and lot but bang for the buck was never there. To be fair to him, he was unfortunate too as too huge global crisises went under his nose.

I also like Rahul Gandhi as Home Minister. The current Gandhi family wants ONLY to call shots but not take responsiility as compared to his father or grandmother. If there is uncomfortable thing blame it on the one who is taking the responsibility. If there are achievements, the the psychophants can put into Gandhi family achievements bracket.

If Rahul becomes HM he also needs to take some uncomfortable decision which they do want to take.

Unless the honchos like Pranabda or PC etc. do something chanikayan there is no way forward for any action/achievements.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby joshvajohn » 09 Apr 2010 18:13

Reply to Rahul M

IAF chief unsure of using air force against Naxals
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\04\08\story_8-4-2010_pg7_35

IAF chief says no need for military involvement in anti-Maoist operations
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/04/07/iafc ... ntima.html

No Army help for anti-Naxal operations: Chief General V K Singh
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 755223.cms


What is insunation here?

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby chaanakya » 09 Apr 2010 18:20

sanjeevpunj wrote:I have seen this man in person once. He is just a paper tiger.I am referring to P Chidambaram.

Well , you have seen him once and behold, he becomes a paper tiger. Ask the people who work under him in MHA. He is a tough task master and a quick decision taker. Believes in long term changes.

Setbacks do occur. Men have their failings and weaknesses. Don't judge him by Media reports. Much that is going on in MHA is beyond what most of the folks could actually fathom. Give man his due. Suffice it to say there is a fresh air in MHA thanks to him.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Kavu » 09 Apr 2010 18:38

Viv S wrote:With regard to the Maoists, you're absolutely right. They don't recognize India's right to exist as a democratic state and have no intention of disarming whatsoever. Any talks (preceded by the inevitable ceasefire) only gives them time to recoup and reorganize their beleaguered(contrary to what recent events may suggest) organisation.


Thats where what Rahul said make sense. If Chidabaram also believe what you have stated, what is wrong in using some empty words, making maoist look like abhorant non-peace loving entity while the GoI is one. But then again wether GoI will be able to communicate its ideology and its greatness to the other people of this country is still to me suspect. Poverty is an emotional one in this country, it is imperative to show that GoI cares more than anyone else. CPI/CPM must if possible abolished and banned.
Last edited by Kavu on 09 Apr 2010 20:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Rahul M » 09 Apr 2010 19:49

joshvajohn wrote:Reply to Rahul M

IAF chief unsure of using air force against Naxals
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\04\08\story_8-4-2010_pg7_35

IAF chief says no need for military involvement in anti-Maoist operations
http://news.oneindia.in/2010/04/07/iafc ... ntima.html

No Army help for anti-Naxal operations: Chief General V K Singh
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 755223.cms


What is insunation here?

I don't think you are so simple minded as not to understand what was the insinuation.
in any case, for your reading pleasure.
I also do not understand why army is not willing to help in this regard. I wonder whether there is any maoist minded fellows or sympathisers infilterated into Army decision makers or among the central government ministers.

please note that my earlier comments still stand.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Abhi_G » 09 Apr 2010 20:01

Rahul,

OT question. As you already know that there is a more reputed jungle warfare school in Mizoram. Is it regional geography and ecosystem that is behind the choice of the school at Chattisgarh?

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 09 Apr 2010 20:20

Muppalla wrote:PC is so far all talk and strategy. There are some achivements though but not significant enough for the modern challenges that India is facing. Even as FM he used to talk a lot and lot but bang for the buck was never there. To be fair to him, he was unfortunate too as too huge global crisises went under his nose.


As FM consecutive years of 9% economic growth. As HM, the only blot on his record on counter-terrorism so far is the Pune blast. That's far far better than L.K. Advani or Shivraj Patil ever did. Fortunately there weren't similar casualties in anti-Naxal operations during their tenures. Unfortunately, that was because neither of them took any concrete action against the Maoists.

Advani and Patil put together didn't have the kind of approval P.C. enjoys today. There's only so much you can dismiss as PR performances and posturing.

Even the link you posted mostly paints Chidambaram in a favourable light with the exception of his handling of the Telangana issue.

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Reposito ... kin-custom

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Altair » 09 Apr 2010 20:20

kavu,
Do you really think any party can ever be banned in our country? The solution is not banning outfits or partys. The solution is to have a security culture in our country. We need to have a security force well equipped and well trained under one central command which reports only to the Home Minister.They must have their own Intelligence wing. Own UAVs/Satellite Intel if needed. If need be they can work in tandem with the NSG hubs throughout the country. India desperately needs one. This force should be able to handle Naxalism, Hostage situation in a terrorist strike,Riots etc..We are a unique case with too much state-centre politics. If we have such a force at Home Ministers disposal we can handle the internal troubles in a better way.An trouble anywhere in country which cannot be handled by the state government must be dealt with this central force. If only the "buck" knew where to stop we wouldnt be counting our dead today.JMT

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby joshvajohn » 09 Apr 2010 20:22

R
I have edited my post. remove your comments!
j

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 09 Apr 2010 20:30

Kavu wrote:Thats where what Rahul said make sense. If Chidabaram also believe what you have stated, what is wrong in using some empty words, making maoist look like abhorant non-peace loving entity while the GoI is one. But then again wether GoI will be able to communicate its ideology and its greatness to the other people of this country is still to me suspect. Poverty is an emotional one in this country, it is imperative to show that GoI cares more than anyone else. CPI/CPM must if possible abolished and banned.


I didn't really get you there. I don't see where he's gone wrong with regard to his handling of the media. He's made it clear that just bringing up the issue of talks in context of the CRPF encounter was plainly a defeatist attitude. The Maoists know if they wants talks, they need to commit to disarming their cadre. Given that tribals have valid claims of injustice being meted out to them, that right can be granted to them. To prove that the govt. cares, it must provide effective and efficient governance in areas the Maoists have been pushed out of in addition to overall good governance. Which incidently, is more the state government's prerogative than the central government's.

BTW by CPI(M) are you referring to the Maoists or Marxists? Because the Maoists have been banned and the Marxists constitutionally have a right to exist.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby jaibhim » 09 Apr 2010 20:50

Just a quick alert, please check the poisonous website indianvanguard.com which has uploaded lot of new things about maoist struggle and new material on what the leadership is thinking. The delhi circuit activists, the kafila caravan[please google to locate the site it says it is a hut for activists and civil society to think and run away from big media(to be read as capitalist bourgeois media)] , the sahmats and other bob cut jhola levis jeans[talk of capitalism] and fab india kurta feminists and bob cut individuals for whom it is a privilege to be sexually perverse and advertise it as they are civl society delhi activists, civil liberty activists[remembering sharad yadav for the purpose of description] are squealing with orgasmic delight on the recent massacre of 75 soldiers and the tamiltribune which talks of the first peoples struggle in 1952 in coimbatore where independence flag of the valiant peoples of tamizh nadu was said to have been raised also has comments to make on peoples rights for revolutionary resistance. The latter is very dangerous with its pompous boast of having a strong cadre in tamizh naad[purposely spelt that way] especially in interior tamil nadu, to wage war for freedom. It talks of 1992 or sometime when the present CM went to meet one dying intellectual who was considered as the father of the revolutionary tamil resistance struggle and who did not accept India or indian identity till his last breath and damned the Indian constitution. It advocates revenge for the massacre in the 1950's[what is the background behind this alleged blood bath of martyrs for the cause, i in my present form was not around in this world then] and calls for a mass peoples struggle by the great tamizh warrior race and trampling of the indian constitution. A new revolutionary constitution will be drafted by the tribunal representing the mass tamizh consciousness once liberation was to be achieved. It talks of a silent cadre that is alive and well. This is surely alarming. In retrospect, one wonders what would have it been had Kamaraj not been there to prevent a catastrophe otherwise.

Would the experienced members in the forum throw some light on this flag hoisting episode in TNAU coimbatore and the massacre following the language agitation please? Are not the TNRT and other scum [ask a coconut climber in erode of what he thinks of them, he will spit on them and is more genuinely concerned about India than the parasitic civil society jathra] in prison. There is another body called the vck as per the website. The chap here in the website wants an armed peoples revolutionary war. Is he alluding to the Dharmapuri link which was once an active area.


Would enlightened members who might have better reach than ordinary people like students alert the babus? The website and its trojans such as Indian vanguard must be stopped.
Last edited by jaibhim on 09 Apr 2010 21:18, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby vera_k » 09 Apr 2010 20:57

Chidambaram offers to quit, PM rejects it

I think Chidambaram's goose is cooked. This is the same sequence of events that followed for Modi - expect to see a rampup in human rights NGO activity now.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby jaibhim » 09 Apr 2010 21:05

vera_k wrote:Chidambaram offers to quit, PM rejects it

I think Chidambaram's goose is cooked. This is the same sequence of events that followed for Modi - expect to see a rampup in human rights NGO activity now.

The venerable minister was made to eat his own words apparently. Reminds one of cricket and the Tony Greig incident!

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 09 Apr 2010 21:15

vera_k wrote:Chidambaram offers to quit, PM rejects it

I think Chidambaram's goose is cooked. This is the same sequence of events that followed for Modi - expect to see a rampup in human rights NGO activity now.


He's got solid support from both the PM and Sonia Gandhi, and now from the BJP as well. Everyone recognizes that while his offer of resignation was an acknowledgement of his moral responsibility, he still remains the best man for the job. Kind of like E. Sreedharan after the Delhi Metro accident.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby vera_k » 09 Apr 2010 21:19

Viv S wrote:He's got strong support from both the PM and Sonia Gandhi


Any source for this? The dynasty prefers to back the left wingers and NGOs, which is why I think Chidambaram is in a soup.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Kavu » 09 Apr 2010 21:24

vera_k wrote:Any source for this? The dynasty prefers to back the left wingers and NGOs, which is why I think Chidambaram is in a soup.


I suggest you take Political affiliations out of this, Congress nor the dynasty or BJP is interested in allowing an ideology such Communism and Maoism to grow, which is a future threat to them, They maybe lot of things, but they are not stupid. Maoism intends to overturn the constitution of India, the very piece of paper which gives BJP and Congress legitimacy, for the support of Chidabharam, check the links posted.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 09 Apr 2010 21:31

vera_k wrote:Any source for this? The dynasty prefers to back the left wingers and NGOs, which is why I think Chidambaram is in a soup.


Mostly empirical evidence. His tenure with the Finance Ministry was general treated with approval. He was appointed to the most crucial position post-Mumbai, instead of the much senior (troubleshooter) Pranab Mukherjee. He's been an asset to the Congress' image in that position.

And then finally you have information gleaned from media reports.

But age is on Chidambaram’s side. As a Congress veteran said, “He is the youngest among the seniors.” Which probably means he has a long innings ahead, especially with a smooth equation with Congress supremo Sonia Gandhi. The lady, it’s said, increasingly trusts PC. He has shown his ability to be on top of complex situations, and yet hasn’t committed the cardinal sin of advertising his prowess. Some Congressmen even speculate that if Rahul Gandhi isn’t ready for the big job after Manmohan Singh hangs up his gloves, the assignment may be given to PC — at least for a while.

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Reposito ... kin-custom

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Kavu » 09 Apr 2010 21:32

Altair wrote:kavu,
Do you really think any party can ever be banned in our country? The solution is not banning outfits or partys. The solution is to have a security culture in our country. We need to have a security force well equipped and well trained under one central command which reports only to the Home Minister.They must have their own Intelligence wing. Own UAVs/Satellite Intel if needed. If need be they can work in tandem with the NSG hubs throughout the country. India desperately needs one. This force should be able to handle Naxalism, Hostage situation in a terrorist strike,Riots etc..We are a unique case with too much state-centre politics. If we have such a force at Home Ministers disposal we can handle the internal troubles in a better way.An trouble anywhere in country which cannot be handled by the state government must be dealt with this central force. If only the "buck" knew where to stop we wouldnt be counting our dead today.JMT



Yes, Communism : Marxist, Leninst, Maoist or that CPI is contray to the ideals and spirit of Indian Constitution, Therefore is traitorous and shouldnt allowed. Indira Gandhi Allowed them to stay to please the Soviets. That is all. our British inspired structures have outlived their use, and no longer be considered adequate for the new India.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby vera_k » 09 Apr 2010 21:33

But isn't it an issue of political will?

Dynasty vs government

We certainly haven’t heard a single Sonia statement on Maoism that backs the official stand of her government. At best we have had non-descript statements deploring violence — something similar to what the human-rightswallahs mumble when confronted with the latest Maoist atrocities.


Her son Rahul blamed non-Congress governments for the Maoist violence, neatly deflecting the issue.


It is interesting to note that the jholawala sympathisers of the Maoists have attacked the Government of India and the states for their anti-Maoist operations. They have criticised local resistance groups like the Salwa Judum in Chhattisgarh, but not Sonia or Rahul.


There is some political method to this madness. A substantial chunk of the future vote bank of the Congress lies in the tribal belts where missionaries are active. This is also the area where the Maoists rule. But we do not hear of any clashes or even tensions between the soldiers of god and the mercenaries of Mao.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Kavu » 09 Apr 2010 21:45

Viv S wrote:I didn't really get you there. I don't see where he's gone wrong with regard to his handling of the media. He's made it clear that just bringing up the issue of talks in context of the CRPF encounter was plainly a defeatist attitude. The Maoists know if they wants talks, they need to commit to disarming their cadre. Given that tribals have valid claims of injustice being meted out to them, that right can be granted to them. To prove that the govt. cares, it must provide effective and efficient governance in areas the Maoists have been pushed out of in addition to overall good governance. Which incidently, is more the state government's prerogative than the central government's.

BTW by CPI(M) are you referring to the Maoists or Marxists? Because the Maoists have been banned and the Marxists constitutionally have a right to exist.


Which is why I was agreeing with you and Rahul before you, as my earlier assertion and assessment about his talk in the media was wrong.

Ya, Communism doesnt go well with Democracy, Socialism might.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 09 Apr 2010 21:46

vera_k wrote:But isn't it an issue of political will?

We certainly haven’t heard a single Sonia statement on Maoism that backs the official stand of her government. At best we have had non-descript statements deploring violence — something similar to what the human-rightswallahs mumble when confronted with the latest Maoist atrocities.




True, but we haven't heard any contradictory statements. As a matter of fact, you rarely hear Sonia Gandhi speak unless the government requires her support to bail out a bill or something similar.

Her son Rahul blamed non-Congress governments for the Maoist violence, neatly deflecting the issue.


That's politics obviously. All under the sun are guilty.

It is interesting to note that the jholawala sympathisers of the Maoists have attacked the Government of India and the states for their anti-Maoist operations. They have criticised local resistance groups like the Salwa Judum in Chhattisgarh, but not Sonia or Rahul.


There is some political method to this madness. A substantial chunk of the future vote bank of the Congress lies in the tribal belts where missionaries are active. This is also the area where the Maoists rule. But we do not hear of any clashes or even tensions between the soldiers of god and the mercenaries of Mao.


If indeed Sonia Gandhi felt Chidambaram's policies were detrimental to the Congress' political fortunes, rather than force him out of the office in nudges and shoves, she could simply have prevailed upon the Prime Minister to accept his resignation.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Kavu » 09 Apr 2010 21:49

There are parallel consequences, developments and unintended issues which crop up when eradicating the maoist, can the destruction of maoist in India, give proper care to the Tribals. the answer is NO. It has nothing to do with Political will, Congressmen and military men being secret commies or anything. It has to do with our capacity, ability and priorities. In a capital hungry state like India, development of one state will be always at the cost of others. I hate it when BR members take very serious, complex and evolving issues with multiple faces along their simple and narrow political affiliations and hate.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Rahul M » 09 Apr 2010 22:27

Abhi saar, CIJWS already had its hands full, so a new school was required. what better place to locate it than in the very terrain where the forces will operate ? moreover, CIJWS is more inclined towards the army side of things where the average soldier is already better trained than their CPO counterpart. I expect the training at the new JWS to be good too, it's headed by Brig POnwar who used to be in charge of CIJWS vairengte before his retirement.
there was also talk of another school in orissa.

_________________
john, will check,
thanks.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby brihaspati » 10 Apr 2010 00:50

Viv S wrote
If indeed Sonia Gandhi felt Chidambaram's policies were detrimental to the Congress' political fortunes, rather than force him out of the office in nudges and shoves, she could simply have prevailed upon the Prime Minister to accept his resignation.


Not necessarily. Making the PM accept the resignation letter would have given wind to opposition saisl, since BJP has openly taken a position in favour, and PC has otherwise a clean and capable image. That would reflect badly on the dynasty. It is much better to let PC continue and arrange things in due course. One bredator was fond of saying here that he preferred to give a "long rope" for a BRfite [anyone who perhaps posted things way out of what he considered the "line"] to hang himself. Think closely on that mentality. Its a highly political one and one that is used by those who are long surviving in gayam-gaccha politics.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Prasad » 10 Apr 2010 01:30

Mizo jungles are a lot different climate wise from those in Orissa and Chattisgarh. Training in similar schools would lead to lesser time to re-acclimatise to the conditions and hence quicker induction to fight?

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 10 Apr 2010 01:50

brihaspati wrote:Not necessarily. Making the PM accept the resignation letter would have given wind to opposition saisl, since BJP has openly taken a position in favour, and PC has otherwise a clean and capable image. That would reflect badly on the dynasty.


Why would his clean and capable image reflect badly on the Congress or UPA? IMHO Dr. Manmohan Singh's clean image was a crucial factor in the UPAII election.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby brihaspati » 10 Apr 2010 02:02

Sacking or accepting the resignation of such a capable person would reflect badly.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 10 Apr 2010 02:13

brihaspati wrote:Sacking or accepting the resignation of such a capable person would reflect badly.


Well, all the more reason not to shove him out ignominiously in the future with the media and public rooting for him. He's obviously an asset to the party and possibly the next PM.

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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Muppalla » 10 Apr 2010 02:25

Regarding PC, let me clarify first that I don't want him to go at this juncture as the replacement may not even be good. HM is full of challenges with huge setbacks and mistakes do happen.

However, there are interesting things happening w.r.t PC and politics of INC. Deeper analysis will tell that he is not in the good books of Gandhi family. Past affliations of PC and types like Sharad pawar are too deep and both Gandhi family and these gents have equal number of surprising articles in their closets and hence no one will touch each other.

If you read the sequence of events that happened after the unfortunate death of 75 CRPF personnel:
(1) BJP comes out with open support of PC ( preemptive shot and I think smart move :) )
(2) PC resigns
(3) PM rejects
Gandhi family could not do anything in this round to PC especially after BJP supporting him openly. There are certain things that PC is doing which are not in the interest of INC or Gandhis. Especially they will never like de-politicising the intel forces as his proposals are like. They deliberately politicised the entire intel structure with the likes of MKN.

By doing good in Home Ministry and getting brownie points in BR and urban middle class does not bring victory to INC. For it to win the following are very important:
(1) Do not touch urban IM sleeper classes. Manage terror by means of apeasement and including the SIMI types into INC politically. Allow them to do terror activities in a measurable way. As long as they are in the limits no problem. If the state is ruled by opposition you can unleash them to show the state government in bad state.
(2) Evangelical-Dalits and adivasis under the Maoist guise is also important to survive. It is easy to get votes by dealing with few men rather than begging the educated voter. Unless you allow certain activities, they cannot thrive. Be measurable here also. WB, Chattisgarh, JHK and Orissa are all fine for now. Nothing to lose.

The whole engine and factories need to run and intel agencies should facilitate and not confront. Stupid PC's proposals go contrary to that beautiful structure that was carefully created and nurtured.

brihaspati
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby brihaspati » 10 Apr 2010 02:26

Next PM! Save him from that fate! In fact do not even mention this. He has independent political base. His posting is a win-win situation. If he succeeds against the Reds or POGWI, it adds to the overall image of the "chooser". If he fails, he is effectively out of running for PM. But if you already give this idea - it will be interpreted as a mark of his independent popularity. Which is a negative qualification for the key amatya post. In that case he will face more Dantevada cases.

Viv S
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Viv S » 10 Apr 2010 03:18

Muppalla wrote:Regarding PC, let me clarify first that I don't want him to go at this juncture as the replacement may not even be good. HM is full of challenges with huge setbacks and mistakes do happen.


I don't believe he's made any significant mistake. At his level, his job is to come up with an overall plan, commit troops, detail objectives, get the state administrations to cooperate and get the rural development plans implemented. He doesn't have the kind of background that would involve him in evolving tactics or training or formulating SOPs or coordinating local intelligence. Those responsibilities will have to be delegated and such failures usually occur at a lower level. That said being the top man, it is eventually his responsibility and certainly mistakes were made perhaps in senior or in lower appointments and in a flawed plan.

Whatever be the aspects involved, the Maoist insurgency is unique and will require the evolution of unique strategy. And unfortunately its through post-mortems of such (inevitable) events that the strategy is formulated(though this particular attack did have a very high casualty rate). One of the reasons the Army is better suited than the CRPF is because of its experiences in J&K, NE and Sri Lanka, and its paid for that experience in blood.

Point is that its far from given that had a different HM being in office, the ambush would have been avoided(unless troops were pulled out altogether).

However, there are interesting things happening w.r.t PC and politics of INC. Deeper analysis will tell that he is not in the good books of Gandhi family. Past affliations of PC and types like Sharad pawar are too deep and both Gandhi family and these gents have equal number of surprising articles in their closets and hence no one will touch each other.


AFAIK Sonia Gandhi usually follows the PM's lead in most cases except a few like the Women's Reservation Bill and she has so far shown PC the same deference. I still don't see what recent development would cause a reversal of her equation with him.

By doing good in Home Ministry and getting brownie points in BR and urban middle class does not bring victory to INC. For it to win the following are very important:
(1) Do not touch urban IM sleeper classes. Manage terror by means of apeasement and including the SIMI types into INC politically. Allow them to do terror activities in a measurable way. As long as they are in the limits no problem. If the state is ruled by opposition you can unleash them to show the state government in bad state.


:shock: Congress controls the Indian Mujahideen?

(2) Evangelical-Dalits and adivasis under the Maoist guise is also important to survive. It is easy to get votes by dealing with few men rather than begging the educated voter. Unless you allow certain activities, they cannot thrive. Be measurable here also. WB, Chattisgarh, JHK and Orissa are all fine for now. Nothing to lose.


Well its the Congress govt. in AP that broke the Naxal back in the state.

Kavu
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Kavu » 10 Apr 2010 03:37

Viv S wrote:
:shock: Congress controls the Indian Mujahideen?


Welcome to BR, I first started reading it in 2002/03. I thought Pakistani forums were full of conspiracies.

Well its the Congress govt. in AP that broke the Naxal back in the state.


Same in Kerala. What people dont understand here is, The ideology of communism is the single largest threat to Congress Party as well as BJP. Congress pacifies it by becoming more socialist, it works in a poor country, while BJP does the exact opposite, But both does work for the destruction of the ideology, while for a poor uninformed farmer and people with no means like the tribals, Utopia is a hope they love, that hope is easily pressed through Communism much like Islamism.

Muppalla
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Muppalla » 10 Apr 2010 03:42

Viv S wrote:AFAIK Sonia Gandhi usually follows the PM's lead in most cases except a few like the Women's Reservation Bill and she has so far shown PC the same deference. I still don't see what recent development would cause a reversal of her equation with him.


These are not recent. More on this will become too political and we are on the edge of political discussion if we go deep into this. I am trying to be around politics around naxal handling.

Viv S wrote:Well its the Congress govt. in AP that broke the Naxal back in the state.


If you may allow, I suggest you to read some contemporary political chronology of India, states, parties etc. Since 1983, AP was rules by TDP for almost 25 years. Naxals were crushed during that time and Greyhounds were also formed during the same time. In the 70s - yes INC CM Vengal Rao did crush them for that time period.

JwalaMukhi
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby JwalaMukhi » 10 Apr 2010 07:00

It is interesting Jholawala brigade is trying to defend the undefensible. It is hilarious, some of them compare the maoists action to the revolutionary ideas of Bhagat Singh :evil: (kuldip nayaar in baki paper) .
Well conveniently, the Jholawalas were hiding ever since Nandigram massacre happened.
Now, that the big bad evil state needs to be challenged by the pure red brigade, jholawalas are going to have prolonged orgasm. Funny that ms. medha patkar and sandeep pandey were thrown eggs by the tribals, when they tried fishing in troubled waters at Dantewada. Is there any shame at all felt by Jholawals?
Last edited by JwalaMukhi on 10 Apr 2010 07:09, edited 1 time in total.

Pranav
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Pranav » 10 Apr 2010 07:00

Viv S wrote:
brihaspati wrote:Sacking or accepting the resignation of such a capable person would reflect badly.


Well, all the more reason not to shove him out ignominiously in the future with the media and public rooting for him. He's obviously an asset to the party and possibly the next PM.


But he may not be an asset to those who want to promote Maoists.

There was a nice article posted here a few days back about the extensive international links of the Maoists. Also lots of links in Indian media and academia. Think of the Purulia Arms drop case. Who was supplying the arms, and why did the BJP let off the pilot.

Pranav
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Re: The Red Menace

Postby Pranav » 10 Apr 2010 07:14

vera_k wrote:But isn't it an issue of political will?

Dynasty vs government

It is interesting to note that the jholawala sympathisers of the Maoists have attacked the Government of India and the states for their anti-Maoist operations. They have criticised local resistance groups like the Salwa Judum in Chhattisgarh, but not Sonia or Rahul.


Actually there was a Maoist statement a few days back threatening both Sonia and Chidambaram.

As regards what Sonia really wants, and how much freedom of action she has ... all that remains an enigma.


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