Non-Western Worldview

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Murugan
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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby Murugan » 14 Mar 2018 09:27

One of the reasons why educated Indians are so scathing and derisive about India is precisely because no one can define a place for India in their minds - but everyone is clear about the west, Russia and China.


Smriti bhransh (स्मृति भ्रंष). Indians are victims of disconnect due to apathy of their own doing.
"When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again"

Creating new 'memories' which once brought good marks in exams, helped in clearing competitive interviews and earning daily bread.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby Murugan » 14 Mar 2018 09:47

Romans, Arabs and Chinese had significant presence in ancient India. India influenced the ancient world till 16th century CE and there are solid evidences.

Interactions on intellectual level with Arabs and Chinese lasted for many centuries.
Chinese records of interaction with India is from 4-5th Century to 14th Century CE. Chinese translated whatever they learnt/gathered from India in Chinese, vis-a-vis translated Chinese works in Sanskrit.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby ramana » 06 Oct 2018 00:56

X-Post...
habal wrote:Is US the new empire or does the empire control US

The real Empire has been in operation since 1649. The nominal Anglo Empire, actually controlled by a “power elite” of financial interests like the Rothschilds, operated through Britain until the 20th Century. They lost partial control of the US in 1783, but fought hard (financially) to re-establish control of the US. After 130 years, they finally regained a foothold with the Federal Reserve and consolidated that control during the next 50 years, finally gaining absolute control by 1963.

Meanwhile, the power of Britain as the bully boy under their control had been dissipated through their endless series of wars. The US, under tighter and tighter control through the first half of the 20th Century, became the co-bully boy with Britain during WW II, and replaced it entirely in 1956. However, the power elite still financially controls both the British Commonwealth and the US, and they sometimes indirectly influence US policy through British puppets like Theresa May (White Helmets, Skripals, the Steele dossier etc.)

In the 1830-40s, the power elite decided that a pro-British puppet state in historic Palestine would be useful to their goals in SW Asia, and they started a project to “restore” Jewish power in Palestine. This was a very long term project, as we know, taking more than a century.

It’s important for us to understand that this Empire, this power elite, is not a monolithic, absolute dictatorship with consistent policies. There are factions and power struggles within the power elite, but for the most part they are guided by shared interests, the most important being the preservation and expansion of their own collective power. As in any hierarchy, there are constantly shifts in relative power. Subordinates will always attempt to increase their own power, sometimes becoming a dominant force. Israel is such a case. However, if and when a vassal’s reckless actions begin to threaten the aggregate power of the rest of the elite, other factions will attempt to check its power. If they are able to, the vassal will be weakened or destroyed and the Empire and its power elite will endure. If unable, the parasitic vassal may cause the collapse of the Empire as a whole, perhaps even destroying the power elite itself.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby A_Gupta » 19 Oct 2018 17:13

https://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.c ... narguable/
More troubling is the short shrift given to the letter and spirit of the Constitution in the concurring opinion of Justice Chandrachud. While as a matter of law, like the other majority opinions, he denies the status of a religious denomination to the Ayyappans, unlike the others, he goes further and presents an eloquent, albeit gratuitous reading of the Constitution to justify his position.

The fulcrum of Justice Chandrachud’s view is that “the founding faith on which the Constitution is based is the belief that it is in the dignity of each individual that the pursuit of happiness is founded.” This is a laudable proposition but one that is certainly not evident from reading the Indian Constitution, let alone capable of being its founding faith.

At a philosophical level, the pursuit of individual happiness is, at best, an incidental goal for our Constitution to aspire to. It has no basis in text, doctrine or debates of our framers. Our philosophical traditions highlight the dissolution of the self rather than its assertion, as Justice Chandrachud has done. Importing an evocative Jeffersonian phrase and making it the founding faith of our Constitution makes for terrific reading but poor reasoning.

A reading of our Constitution demonstrates that different provisions of the Constitution serve different but equally significant objectives – liberty, equality, fraternity, diversity and so on. Equally, the Constitution speaks of duties of individuals and responsibility of the state to distribute resources to serve the common good. Limiting the breadth of the Constitution to a single virtue – dignity – is an instance of uni-dimensional holism, an entirely discredited method of constitutional interpretation.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby A_Gupta » 24 Oct 2018 16:24

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... -sculpture

Brinkmann soon realized that his discovery hardly required a special lamp: if you were looking at an ancient Greek or Roman sculpture up close, some of the pigment “was easy to see, even with the naked eye.” Westerners had been engaged in an act of collective blindness. “It turns out that vision is heavily subjective,” he told me. “You need to transform your eye into an objective tool in order to overcome this powerful imprint”—a tendency to equate whiteness with beauty, taste, and classical ideals, and to see color as alien, sensual, and garish.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby ramana » 24 Oct 2018 23:29

A_Gupta wrote:https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/29/the-myth-of-whiteness-in-classical-sculpture

Brinkmann soon realized that his discovery hardly required a special lamp: if you were looking at an ancient Greek or Roman sculpture up close, some of the pigment “was easy to see, even with the naked eye.” Westerners had been engaged in an act of collective blindness. “It turns out that vision is heavily subjective,” he told me. “You need to transform your eye into an objective tool in order to overcome this powerful imprint”—a tendency to equate whiteness with beauty, taste, and classical ideals, and to see color as alien, sensual, and garish.



well written and argued.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby A_Gupta » 05 May 2019 19:09

Didn't know where to put this item. But notice the alarm that prospective Indian politicians are being taught a non-western worldview.
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... ts/588127/

MUMBAI—Vinay Sahasrabuddhe is on a mission that is at once impossibly simple and yet somehow insurmountable: He is training Indian politicians to be competent.

Not just any politicians, mind you—Hindu nationalist politicians.

Sahasrabuddhe, a senior official in Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party, has for years been admitting election hopefuls to his Indian Institute of Democratic Leadership, teaching them to deliver speeches, debate while staying on message, and promote good governance, all to show them how to work the system and, ultimately, master it. In essence, Sahasrabuddhe and his colleagues are trying to professionalize nationalism.

Such an effort to induct a new generation of leaders into political life is unusual in India, where many elected officials still rely on patrons or lineage to rise to the top. The institute, which markets itself as offering an Ivy League education in politics, offers a window into the BJP’s efforts to educate its cadres and widen its appeal. It suggests a level of strategic calm in a political party that faces tough national parliamentary elections this month and next, but which is nevertheless playing a longer game of investing in youth and expanding party ranks.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby csaurabh » 08 May 2019 17:40

I have been noticing for quite some time. 'Global' fantasy ( read Hollywood ) is now fast becoming Indian fantasy as well.
Young gen is very disconnected with our itihasas and puranas. Or even if they know, they don't care.

They don't seem to want to dress up as Hanuman for Ram Lila. They would rather dress up as characters from DOTA, World of Warcraft, Marvel Comics and Star Wars.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby ramana » 18 May 2019 02:57

Dated article but worth reading.
Will post full text and my comments.


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2 ... ins-russia

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby siqir » 18 May 2019 12:08

russian orthodox basically do not bow or bend the knee to anyone in the west

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/worl ... hurch.html

there is some parallels to iran shia

both these nations should be target for civilizational ghar vapsi at some point
should start with setting up panini institutes of sanskrit in their major cities
a milestone would be getting them to drop cyrillic and arabic scripts in favour of devanagari or other brahmi derived

one of the reasons oit ait debate is important

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby ricky_v » 18 May 2019 14:16

civilizational ghar wapsi of persia and khazar -rus? for the pars and parths,i get though dasrajanya was a long gone memory when civilization took root and both are precisely where they are because they exported their culture everywhere, regards :hindi is persianized sanskrit.
Hey, why not tell proud cultures to take up our system of writing when even we dont do that? Even realms of fantasy fabricate less than this, lest the world feels unreal.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby Ardeshir » 26 May 2019 05:23

There is a small movement in Persia to revisit ancient Persian culture, but the mullahs viciously attack it.
This is an older report, but not much has changed. https://www.cnn.com/2011/11/14/opinion/ ... index.html

The Zoroastrian cemetery outside Tehran now faces another challenge: The municipality seeks to lay a highway through it. Some schools and devotional centers in other Zoroastrian strongholds like Yazd and Kerman have also been notified of pending annexation. Communal gatherings are routinely monitored by fundamentalist Muslim authorities who allege that Zoroastrianism "threatens national security and subverts the Islamic revolution."
Protections offered by the Islamic Republic's constitution have been rendered meaningless in practice. Not surprisingly, the daily regimen of discrimination makes Zoroastrians feel wholly unwelcome in their Iranian homeland. Only between 35,000 and 90,000 now remain in a country of approximately 74 million citizens -- and, fearing persecution, many do not readily identify themselves as Zoroastrians.


As of today, there are more Zoroastrians in India than in Iran.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby siqir » 27 May 2019 09:18

hindu number system replaced roman numerals

in holy roman empire

for good reasons and without killing anyone

https://अङ्कलोक.भारत/8.1.jpg

pic is devanagari keyboard for chinese

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby A_Gupta » 06 Jun 2019 16:41

A challenge to all:
http://www.hipkapi.com/2011/02/28/why-w ... angadhara/
excerpt:
2. During the colonial period, we were described as immoral people. This is one end of the spectrum. At the other end, we have ‘liberals’ like Shweder, who make us into a bunch of moral cretins. So, it appears, we have two choices: either we are immoral or we are moral idiots. Not much of a choice, is it?

3. Why does this situation come about? This is not a translation problem (‘how should we translate paap into English?’), but an empirical and theoretical problem: what is it about the western ethical tradition that makes the Indian culture either immoral or morally senile?

4. To answer this question, we need to develop a theory of ethics, which does two things simultaneously: (a) show how and why there is an ethical domain in the Indian culture and in what ways it differs from the Western ethical domain; and (b) what are the constraints on the western ethical tradition that it is forced to describe us the way it has.

5. This means such a theory of ethics will be a direct competitor to the Western thinking on ethics. That is to say, our ‘westology’ will not remain a mere ‘westology’ but will be forced to provide an alternative and competing way of looking at the ethical phenomenon itself.

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Re: Non-Western Worldview

Postby A_Gupta » 14 Jun 2019 18:43

The fallacy of thinking Asia will recapitulate European/Western history.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ket-newtab
Decades of Being Wrong About China Should Teach Us Something
American analysts keep trying to fit the country into familiar patterns—ignoring the many ways in which it’s an exception.
The fact is that generations of American policy makers, political scientists, and economists have gotten China wrong more often than they’ve gotten China right. In domestic politics, economic development, and foreign policy, China has charted a surprising path that flies in the face of professional prognostications, general theories about anything, and the experience of other nations.


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