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India-Australia News and Discussion

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
vish_mulay
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby vish_mulay » 21 Jul 2017 13:33

http://www.ndtv.com/video/shows/walk-th ... ter-463264

Some nice information about Indo Australian relationship. Apologies that it is from NDTV and Chor Gupta!

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Jul 2017 22:49

Now comes this gem from the Australian Ummah. Sorry to pollute the ambience of this thread. But this beats the best of Pakistan!

Australian women need us to fertilize them and keep them surrounded by Muslim babies while beer swilling, cigarette smoking, drug injecting can only dream of what Muslim men are capable of,” his post read.He added that Muslims “have a duty to make your [Australian women] happy.”

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby vish_mulay » 29 Jul 2017 07:55

You should have seen how he was hackled on all TV channels unlike islamist in poodledum mothership. He was taken to cleaners and had to delete account and is currently incognito. I think another mass beating of middle easterners is on offering if you feel the beat on the road.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 29 Jul 2017 08:16

what are the origins of islamics in aus ? I believe a lot of lebanese came in the old days, not sure of recent trends ....

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby vish_mulay » 29 Jul 2017 08:52

Lot of Lebanese from gaza when previous govt gave support to Palestinian cause. In recent years lots of Somalis and Sudanese migrated. I have noticed many Paki and Afghans have come in last 5 years. Lots of ethnic Malays Muslim who are very liberal and do adjust well. The worst racist are 2nd generation Lebanese who call all Indians Curry or mawali.
Last edited by vish_mulay on 29 Jul 2017 12:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby vish_mulay » 29 Jul 2017 09:02

Had a very unpleasant morning encounter. First hand experienced how first generation coverts are rabid followers. Apparently, local Presbyterian church has a big program in Nepal. I have started seeing lots of Nepalis migrating here and was not sure how they migrated. Learn today that church is helping migration as a lure to convert. Met someone who's whole family is converted and he is the last one left. Both sons have given him ultimatum to accept new faith or will be send back home away from grandchildren. How can children be so heartless?

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 29 Jul 2017 11:01

No Lebanese in Gaza. If from Gaza must be Palestinians. More likely it's Lebanese not from Gaza. There are tons of Lebanese in Australia, both Christian and Muslim, primarily Shia as I understand

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby vish_mulay » 29 Jul 2017 12:15

My understanding is that many Gaza Palestinian refugees (from 1947) in Lebanon migrated in mid 80s and call themselves Lebanese Australians. I dealt with both Muslim and Christian stream and they are the same. Only middle eastern group which is not overtly racist towards Indians, is Coptic's from Egypt.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby chetak » 29 Jul 2017 14:20

vish_mulay wrote:My understanding is that many Gaza Palestinian refugees (from 1947) in Lebanon migrated in mid 80s and call themselves Lebanese Australians. I dealt with both Muslim and Christian stream and they are the same. Only middle eastern group which is not overtly racist towards Indians, is Coptic's from Egypt.


what, if anything, do these camel shaggers have, to be racist about??

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 29 Jul 2017 15:57

^^Skin colour and poverty. However, the latter aspect has been changing. The sheer numbers and cashpower now being deployed across the board in the Gulf in particular is basically putting a crimp in the racism style of the Lebanese and Palestinians (respectively), because they used to corner a lot of the service side business and management positions in these areas at one time. This is not new, and the transition has been slow and painful for them - considering that their country has been in the shyte too.

So now the Lebanese (both denominations) are unsure quite how to deal with the situation - so they naturally gravitate towards the lighter skinned of our lot, and default respectfully in financial matters to the darker skinned of our lot again (especially in the Gulf, again). The Lebanese Christians fancy themselves are traders (the Phoenician heritage that they cling on to), and to be objective they are extremely good at it. They are spread worldwide and have a very strong and impressively influential diaspora for such a small country, across all sectors - business to entertainment. However, because of that as well, they tend to align themselves very closely with the French in particular and the Europeans in general, though they themselves personally struggle to get visas there.

What has been happening of late, say the last 10 years or so is that they have seen the changing profile of Indians in the Middle East and Europe and the US, and have been adjusting in a timely fashion but that does not mean the underlying racism is dead. But the interaction is much more intense now and therefore, in the new generation at least the tendency towards a racist assessment of Indians on sight has declined. It is not gone by a long shot though. I have interacted very closely with Lebanese for about 30 years and have visited the country maybe 50 times, lived in their houses and one guy even considers me his "son"... So it's a strangely mixed picture.

In fact, one of my best friends at the moment is a Lebanese Christian guy with whom I've had some incredible adventures across the Middle East and North Africa over a 10-year period. There's one more little detail, nobody appreciates the threat of Islamic extremism more keenly than these folks.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby vish_mulay » 29 Jul 2017 16:07

One thing I noticed is that power of Bollywood. Even 2nd and 3rd generation Lebanese are hooked on Bollywood. Older generation talk about Amar Akbar Anthony and Big B. New generations are predominantly Rahul hakklla khan followers. I was called curry often and my way of dealing with it was to call them hummus! the looks on the their faces were priceless as they just couldn't react.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Jul 2017 06:59

Australia going the way of the US of A
The Pakis are getting to the airlines..
people{pakis} in Sydney were allegedly planning to carry out a terrorist attack using an "improvised device." Turnbull said it was an elaborate conspiracy that involved bringing down an airplane.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby JE Menon » 30 Jul 2017 11:04

>>I was called curry often and my way of dealing with it was to call them hummus! the looks on the their faces were priceless as they just couldn't react.

Bingo, that's the way to go. Plus the Lebanese love ostentation... If he wears a Rolex Daytona white dial, and you're packing a limited edition Girard Perregaux, respect will be shown by default. A lot of the measure is by material gain and it's display. Needless to say, the cases where chumma mundum veshti and Ambassador (because achan drove it!) while packing a multi-million asset base in Dubai and Malaysia is not a likely scenario in Lebanon. Whereas it is not at all uncommon in India.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Aug 2017 02:14

Aussie-Pakis?

Aussie university professor forced to apologize for ‘inaccurate’ China-India border map
Published time: 22 Aug, 2017 01:08
Edited time: 22 Aug, 2017 19:54
The lingering Sino-Indian border spat spilled over into Sydney University campus, where outraged Chinese students made an IT lecturer apologize over the use of an outdated map listing a contested border area as part of India’s territory.

A world map used by Khimji Vaghjiani, an associate professor at the University of Sydney reading the course called “Professional Practice of IT,” showed a disputed strip of land as part of India, according to The Australian.

Though the disputed area was not easy to spot on the map, the perceived inaccuracy apparently touched Chinese students on the raw.

Australian Red Scarf, a Wechat account run by Sydney University’s Chinese students group, posted an article last Wednesday demanding that the map be removed, the South China Morning Post (SCMP) reported.

“This map is different from [the] Chinese map ... India should respect the facts,” it said. “Is this Indian teacher trying to provoke a conflict?” the piece asked.

Bashed by some Chinese social media users, Vaghjiani brought formal apologies and said the map he downloaded from the Internet was “a genuine mistake.”

“Over 18 months ago, I used an out-of-date map, downloaded from the internet, when discussing characteristics of IT entrepreneurs around the world, however I was unaware that the map was inaccurate and out-of-date,” he explained in a statement to The Australian.

The teacher then said he regretted “any offence this may have caused.” The map was not included in the course materials, Vaghjiani added.

“The course introduces students to concepts, standards and techniques associated with professional practice in information technology in business environments. The current learning materials for this course (Semester 2, 2017) are up-to-date and do not contain this map.”

Australia’s Chinese community has recently added more fuel into the China-India rift. In mid-August, a cavalcade of 10 luxury cars paraded across Sydney, driving past three major universities before arriving at India’s Consulate General in Sydney.

The cars were decorated with the Chinese flag and stickers featuring slogans that read: "Borderline is our baseline;" "China: Not even a bit can be left behind;" and, "Anyone who offends China will be killed, no matter how far the target is," according to SBS.

The story comes at a time when two Asian powers are challenging each other in a bitter political dispute over Doklam plateau (Dongland in Chinese), a tiny swatch of land sandwiched between India, China and Bhutan.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby arun » 11 Sep 2017 22:29

India has lodged a demarche regards Australian TV advertisment that hurts Hindu religious sentiments.

The commercial portrays Lord Ganesha sharing a meal of lamb with figures from several other religions.

India lodges complaint over ‘offensive’ Australian lamb advert

Karen Gilchrist | @_karengilchrist Published 4 Hours Ago

An Australian ad campaign promoting lamb has attracted widespread criticism from the country's Hindu community, prompting officials to lodge a diplomatic protest with the government.

The High Commission of India in Canberra has made a "demarche" to three Australian government departments over the advert, which has been labelled "offensive" and religiously insensitive.

The commercial portrays the Hindu god Ganesha sharing a meal of lamb with figures from several other religions.

Meat & Livestock Australia (MLA), the meat industry lobby group behind the ad, said that the new campaign shows that lamb is a meat that can be enjoyed by all, regardless of "beliefs, background or persuasion." However, it has caused anger among Australia's Hindu community because Ganesha is never depicted eating meat.

The elephant-headed god is depicted at the table alongside figures including Jesus, Gautama Buddha and Scientology founder Ron Hubbard. Prophet Muhammad, we are told by the atheist in the ad, could not make it.

Meat and Livestock Australia commercial featuring Ganesha and Jesus aired September 4, 2017.

"In a video advertisement released by Meat and Livestock Australia recently, Lord Ganesha along with other religious figures is found to be 'toasting lamb', which the Indian community consider to be offensive and hurting their religious sentiments," the High Commission of India said in a press announcement.

Australia's Advertising Standards Bureau said the advert had attracted more than 30 complaints relating to "a number of faiths," according to the BBC.

The MLA was not immediately available for comment.

In a press announcement for the launch of the ad last week, the MLA said it was making lamb appeal to modern, multicultural consumers, using the banner "You'll Never Lamb Alone."

"Our marketing aims to reach more consumers by making Lamb more relevant to a diverse, modern Australia. This time around we are highlighting the diversity of religious beliefs, backgrounds and dietary requirements in modern Australia."

The campaign consisted of a long form film, a 30 second TV commercial, billboards and a digital partnership.


From CNBC:

India lodges complaint over ‘offensive’ Australian lamb advert

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby rsingh » 11 Sep 2017 22:41

^^^^^
Its like they are living on another planet. Ganesha eating lamb.........what a no brainer idea. But then , we get all sorts of funny news from there..........like man biting croc etc

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Viv S » 11 Sep 2017 23:03

Seems like an overreaction on the MEA's part.

The advertisement is a little ignorant sure but the general theme is pretty inoffensive. The bit about Prophet Mohammed not being able to make it was quite witty.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby periaswamy » 05 Nov 2017 02:46

Lot of articles making rounds p!mping up australia as a worthy member of the "quad" alliance. Few points to consider: 1) that aussie lowlives have already sold their entire economy to the Chinese and create trouble for Indian businesses -- the recent stunts pulled on the Adani Coal enterprise is a good example. (2) Australia has a sh!tty navy, and even less naval personnel. Basically, their Navy is all sh!t with 2 ships or something in that order. so they can go suck China's schlong like they are doing already, and pretend faking that they are a reliable ally of India. (3) What is the reason for the anti-India scum in the US state dept. to push this "quad" alliance? It just reduces India's value in the alliance. Australians will support US/China interests before they support Indian interest. The Oz turds need to be kept out as "challengers" rather than "allies" until they prove that they are reliable allies.

Sepoy losers like Sadanand Dhume and certain Bengaluru think tanks are pushing this alliance without pointing exactly what India gains from a non entity naval non-power like Australia.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Suraj » 10 Nov 2017 06:50

Just so we're clear as to how backward in thinking Australians still are, here's some news about what should have been a positive occasion, Alstom's India factory delivering metro coaches for Sydney's new metro line. This should have been a moment to celebrate positive commercial ties. Instead, the comments sound like they're still collectively stuck in the 19th century with their heads up their behinds:
First metro trains arrive for new $8.3 billion line to Sydney's north west

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 10 Nov 2017 08:34

Also, we should not forget that Australia was the most obnoxious of all the countries denouncing India's nuclear tests. The US, Canada and Japan, the 3 most critical countries, were not as bad.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby uddu » 10 Nov 2017 08:49

^^^You could just browse through the comment section. :D

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 10 Nov 2017 09:26

vish_mulay wrote:One thing I noticed is that power of Bollywood. Even 2nd and 3rd generation Lebanese are hooked on Bollywood. Older generation talk about Amar Akbar Anthony and Big B. New generations are predominantly Rahul hakklla khan followers. I was called curry often and my way of dealing with it was to call them hummus! the looks on the their faces were priceless as they just couldn't react.

or Habibi in an eccentric way :D

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 10 Nov 2017 09:31

rsingh wrote:^^^^^
Its like they are living on another planet. Ganesha eating lamb.........what a no brainer idea. But then , we get all sorts of funny news from there..........like man biting croc etc

The Australians make the worst TV ads ever in the history of advertisement. Period. They are more boring to watch than a statistics lecture. Not surprised at what they could be upto though :D

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 10 Nov 2017 09:38

Suraj wrote:Just so we're clear as to how backward in thinking Australians still are, here's some news about what should have been a positive occasion, Alstom's India factory delivering metro coaches for Sydney's new metro line. This should have been a moment to celebrate positive commercial ties. Instead, the comments sound like they're still collectively stuck in the 19th century with their heads up their behinds:
First metro trains arrive for new $8.3 billion line to Sydney's north west

Check the last two comments though :D

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 12 Nov 2017 18:01

The biggest worry currently is the marriage equality vote in Australia. I say ' worry' because of the negative social cultural impacts of this decision. In the recent cultural etiquettes session at our org. we were taught not to use terms like husband and wife any more while conversing but just sticking to the word 'partner' instead. I mean what the cuff...this is like asking to swallow a cactus for desis like moi. Some schools have already started teaching primary kids politically correct terms like 'parent' instead of saying 'mom' or 'dad' so that they dont offend those who have two dads or two moms. Its shocking how a small gay community is driving majority of discourse even in countries like Australia. The vote is another contentious issue as 20% of those who would have actually voted 'No' is never going to vote due to sheer lethargy or who cares attitude. Those who support the gay movement will be obviously voting in 100% capacity. This problem is more dangerous than terrorism and it wont take much time for it to hit Indian shores. Most sensible Australians dont subscribe to the gay vote but keep mum in order not to be labelled biased. If the gay industry starts making successful inroads into school education here I might think of sending my kid back to India for schooling. I remember an incident which happened with an Indian friend of mine in western Sydney recently, where a 5 year old boy never allowed his grandpa to kiss him and used to call him Gay in front of his parents as he was a man and not supposed to kiss a boy. This is where such misconstrued things impact the most, when it enters your living rooms, dinner tables and family life

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby ricky_v » 12 Nov 2017 20:25

Pathik wrote:The biggest worry currently is the marriage equality vote in Australia. I say ' worry' because of the negative social cultural impacts of this decision. In the recent cultural etiquettes session at our org. we were taught not to use terms like husband and wife any more while conversing but just sticking to the word 'partner' instead. I mean what the cuff...this is like asking to swallow a cactus for desis like moi. Some schools have already started teaching primary kids politically correct terms like 'parent' instead of saying 'mom' or 'dad' so that they dont offend those who have two dads or two moms. Its shocking how a small gay community is driving majority of discourse even in countries like Australia. The vote is another contentious issue as 20% of those who would have actually voted 'No' is never going to vote due to sheer lethargy or who cares attitude. Those who support the gay movement will be obviously voting in 100% capacity. This problem is more dangerous than terrorism and it wont take much time for it to hit Indian shores. Most sensible Australians dont subscribe to the gay vote but keep mum in order not to be labelled biased. If the gay industry starts making successful inroads into school education here I might think of sending my kid back to India for schooling. I remember an incident which happened with an Indian friend of mine in western Sydney recently, where a 5 year old boy never allowed his grandpa to kiss him and used to call him Gay in front of his parents as he was a man and not supposed to kiss a boy. This is where such misconstrued things impact the most, when it enters your living rooms, dinner tables and family life

Sir, I recall reading an article about pagalika during modi's rise that extolled the youth of the world setting ablaze the mode of governance, but wondered why the Indian youth was going in the other direction. These issues are linked because the answer imho to these is twofold: our rural based cultural system does not care about the sensibilities of the "hip and the modern". Our prejudices for the better or worse are deep sated and will not be grafted on easily. The second is that our generation and the ones before us know the value of civil rebellion against oppressors; these others have achieved civil freedom by bloodletting and thus their civil sensibilities cry out for a "stick it to the man" movement but in a safe space style, ours was bought about by real sacrifice. Thus we are not so compelled to agitate.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 15 Nov 2017 04:52

Australia voted Yes this morning. Vinaash Kaale Vipareet Buddhi. No matter what controls they put around this, the gay lobby has already won the day by getting their foot in the door. Its only a matter of time now....

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Sagrawal » 15 Nov 2017 05:33

Pathik wrote:Australia voted Yes this morning. Vinaash Kaale Vipareet Buddhi. No matter what controls they put around this, the gay lobby has already won the day by getting their foot in the door. Its only a matter of time now....


I haven't followed any news on this. Do you know what will be impact to Indians living in Australia? Will there be any changes in tax laws or school educating about gay rights, etc?

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 15 Nov 2017 06:47

Western countries believe in starting young so won't be surprised if gay rights and open acceptance of LBTIQ becomes part of school curriculum soon. and it surely will. The problem is not what people make of this but how the gay industry is trying to acquire more members under it by such mainstream onslaught, Kids below 12 years of age will have no clue and will be most vulnerable when presented with such questions.
I always believe the main objective of the gay industry is not just to safe guard its own rights but to bring normal people into the gay fold literally and this is being done by subversion. First they make you apologetic and use terms like homophobia to shut you up (any references to a desert cult some where is purely coincidental :D ). Then spread information and misinformation, once more and more celebrities openly start turning gay
(remember some are not so since birth or early age), then its a matter of time when kids and aam abduls embrace this.
The immediate impact is Australia would be openly seeing girl-girl and boy-boy kissing on the rise as they start getting more confident. Thats the problem with LGBT issue. Its all about Hex :cry:

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Pathik » 15 Nov 2017 06:50

Just as i type this we receive an email from our CEO (One of Ozs biggest banks)

Hi everyone

Today we heard the result of the postal survey on marriage equality in Australia and I’m pleased to see the support that Australians have shown for this important issue.

As you know, xxxx Group has publicly supported marriage equality for some time now, and this result takes us another step towards achieving a fairer and more equal society. I hope Parliament will now move swiftly to pass the necessary legislation.

Some people have questioned whether it’s right for me, and for us as a company, to comment on this topic. However as CEO, part of my job is to make sure that all of our employees feel fully welcome, safe and supported at work – particularly at a time of such divisive national debate. This is why I stand by our support for marriage equality, and it’s why I am so proud of the respect and sensitivity you have shown for each other during this time.

To all our people and customers who identify as LGBTIQ: I hope this reinforces to you that we celebrate your diversity and value your relationships.

All the best
XXX

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby SSridhar » 24 Nov 2017 08:33

Growing role for India in Australia's new foreign policy document - Indrani Bagchi, ToI
Australia has embraced the "Indo-Pacific" in its new foreign policy white paper, with a growing role for ties with India and the "quadrilateral" with Japan, US and India+ .

Releasing the white paper, Malcolm Turnbull, Australian Prime Minister said his country was attempting to shape the Indo-Pacific region by linking up with countries who "share our interests and commitment to rules-based institutions."

However, the support for the "quad" is not uniform in the Australian political system. The opposition Labour party has clarified they had not yet signed off on the "quadrilateral" which is bound to act as headwinds for Turnbull's foreign policy - which appears predicated on maintaining close economic and commercial ties with China but strategic and security closeness with US, Japan, and even India.


"A good example is when officials of Japan, India, the US and Australia met in the margins of the East Asia Summit in Manila earlier this month+ . I discussed the importance of this initiative with Prime Minister Modi in Manila at our meeting. Another was my meeting with Prime Minister Phuc in Vietnam earlier this month, where we agreed to work towards signing a strategic partnership," the Australian PM said.

Addressing obliquely the strategic dilemma Australia faces, Turnbull observed, "This is the first time in our history that our dominant trading partner is not also our dominant security partner." China occupies a virtually dominant position in Australia's economy and society, but for security partnerships, the Turnbull government has been actively seeking the revival of the "quad" as well as participation in the Malabar naval exercises. This request was reiterated during the "quad" officials' meeting in Manila recently. Sources said the next meeting is a distance away, perhaps on the sidelines of another multilateral event.

Australia will also come out with an India strategy paper in the coming months which, sources said, would complement today's white paper.

Laying out the Australian vision of the Indo-Pacific, Turnbull said "might is not right." He described "a neighbourhood that is defined by open markets and the free flow of goods, services, capital and ideas. Where freedom of navigation goes unchallenged and the rights of small states are untrammelled. Where our shared natural bounty, our land and water and air, is cherished and protected and disagreements are resolved by dialogue in accordance with agreed rules and established institutions."

Rowan Callick, a columnist for The Australian in China, said even the word Indo-Pacific worries Beijing. "The term Indo-Pacific has become identified with the resurrection of the quadrilateral dialogue between India, Japan, US and Australia, viewed by some in China as a "containment" strategy, a word intended to arouse memories of the "century of humiliation by foreign powers" that occupies a central place in Chinese history books."

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby periaswamy » 26 Nov 2017 01:42

Pro-China op-ed warning that US is not a dependable australian ally

On page 46 it states that territorial disputes in the South China Sea are a “major fault line” of the region. Yet on November 10 the US President gave a speech at the Asia-Pacific Economic Co-operation Summit in Da Nang in which he didn’t mention it. Instead, he chose to tell the 21 assembled nations that he was adhering to America First and changing the trade rules.

Meanwhile, on November 12 Vietnam and China reached a “consensus” to “appropriately manage maritime issues … and jointly strive to uphold peace and stability in the South China Sea”.


It is going to take a lot more effort on the part of those seeking to work to counterbalance china in the Indo-Pacific.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby nam » 26 Nov 2017 01:54

Laying out the Australian vision of the Indo-Pacific, Turnbull said "might is not right."


Might is right. All the enthusiasm about quad is a result of Dholam incident. If India did not stare down the dragon, it would have been only "Pacific" triad...

They want India to keep the hans busy on the roof.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby NRao » 26 Nov 2017 02:17

nam wrote:
Laying out the Australian vision of the Indo-Pacific, Turnbull said "might is not right."


Might is right. All the enthusiasm about quad is a result of Dholam incident. If India did not stare down the dragon, it would have been only "Pacific" triad...

They want India to keep the hans busy on the roof.


A small quibble or two.

Quad is from 2007.

And the weak link in the Quad is Australia.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby periaswamy » 26 Nov 2017 06:10

China has effectively colonized australia economically for all practical purposes -- Australian politics is heavily left-wing, and as is typical of "liberal left wing" parties like demicrats in the USA, shivering in expensive armani suits is the reaction of choice when it comes to the topic of challenging chinese hegemony. This is being amply demonstrated by left-wing politicians on the release of this foreign policy paper by Turnbull's admin. Obama was dimissive and bordering on hostile when it came to dealing with Australia, and for good reason, given that the feelings are being reciprocated by Australia.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Nov 2017 07:14

australia has 4 things going for it -
1. it has UK in its corner and UK exercises influence in D.C. aus has shed blood for the kabila dating from crimean war days.
2. huge mineral resources
3. strategic location
4. a gora nation and part of the core US intel sharing qaum

as the only outpost of the qaum in the south pacific , they cannot be ignored.

I know cheen is trying to swarm in and flood all gora lands esp canada and australia, but other than bribery are Sinic PCOs able to make inroads into politics...thats when it will exercise real influence.

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby periaswamy » 26 Nov 2017 07:25

There is already at least one politician of chinese descent, Penny Wong. pro-china, and she was part of the cabinet of the pro-China Kevin Rudd government.

Penny Wong

@SkyNewsAust
.@SenatorWong: ‘We should approach China with confidence and with mutual respect’ MORE: http://bit.ly/2mViMxq

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Vips » 26 Nov 2017 08:10

Australian publisher drops book on Chinese influence; author warns Canada is also at risk.

Alarmed by creeping Chinese influence on Australian political life, Clive Hamilton set out to investigate.

Businesses and people connected to China had already become the biggest foreign financial contributors to the country's political parties. But "it seemed to me there was much more going on" said Prof. Hamilton, a scholar at Charles Sturt University.

He found much to write about – only to become, himself, the subject of China's efforts to promote its agenda around the world, after fears of retaliation by Beijing caused his publisher to back away from a book containing his findings.

Now, he is warning about the risks of China's rising power – including in Canada, which has become an important target for a Beijing-led campaign that relies on shadowy government-funded agencies to spread influence among Chinese people living overseas.

Such "united front" work has been called a "magic weapon" by President Xi Jinping, who echoed a formulation that dates all the way back to Mao Zedong. But Mr. Xi has overseen an effort to enhance China's international standing unparalleled in recent history, either in China or among countries such as Russia or Turkey, whose foreign-influence campaigns Beijing has eclipsed in scale and ambition.

China has cast its united front efforts both as a necessary corrective to negative images of the country and a bid to invite participation in its domestic development by the worldwide community of ethnic Chinese.

"We have expanded to the maximum extent the boundaries of unity and called on Chinese people from every corner of the world to secure the core interests of our country, and to contribute to our reform and development," Zhang Yijiong, administrative vice-minister of the United Front Work Department of the Communist Party Central Committee, said in a rare public appearance in late October.

Critics, however, accuse Beijing of threatening the sovereignty of foreign political systems.

It was that risk Prof. Hamilton sought to document.

He tracked the rivers of money flowing into the Australian education system that "have made the universities beholden to China and extremely reluctant to do anything that might upset Beijing." He dug into work by Chinese emissaries "to turn the Chinese diaspora in Australia into a highly effective weapon for Beijing's diplomacy in this part of the world." He looked at opinion-makers espousing views favourable to China, some of whom "have been won over through financial ties to Chinese organizations." He looked at Chinese-language media in Australia, 90 per cent of which now "adopt a pro-Beijing political stance."

He assembled his findings into a book, Silent Invasion: How China is Turning Australia into a Puppet State, in which he named the people he identified as being at the forefront of China's influence campaign.

But months before the book's planned release, his long-time publisher, Allen & Unwin, told him it could no longer go forward as planned, saying in an e-mail it was worried about "potential threats to the book and the company from possible action by Beijing."

In the Nov. 8 e-mail, first published by Australian media last week, the publisher cited "Beijing's agents of influence" and said printing the book would raise "the very high chance of a vexatious defamation action against Allen & Unwin, and possibly against you personally as well."

"There have been, as far as I'm aware, no specific threats made to the publisher," Prof. Hamilton said. "But in a way that's more worrying, because it means the mere shadow of Beijing is enough to cause them to pull the plug on this book."

China's immense consumer market and economic power have made it a coveted business partner for countries around the world, not least Australia, which has benefited from its relative geographic proximity.

But in courting Beijing, Australia has allowed China to gain so much sway, Prof. Hamilton warns, that "it will take a decade of determined effort to unwind the program of influence that has been executed in this country."

And, he says, other countries would do well to heed what he has experienced — including Canada, where schools at all levels are increasingly reliant on tuition dollars from Chinese students while Ottawa has approved controversial investments in sensitive sectors as it holds talks toward a free-trade agreement with Beijing.

Canada is far less economically reliant on China than Australia. But its large population of Chinese immigrants has also made it a target for the United Front Work Department and other arms of the Communist Party and Chinese government tasked with exerting Beijing's influence abroad.

A 2016 book, United Front Theory and the Frontier of Its Practice, says groups of large, relatively new immigrants overseas are "one of the most heated topics" for Chinese study, which has led researchers to devote special attention to countries such as Canada.

The book then provides a description of networks of influence among the roughly one million Chinese immigrants who have arrived in Canada since 1980.

Everyday Chinese in Canada continue to show "a very limited degree" of political interest – but that, the authors suggest, provides fertile ground for united front influence.

"The positive effects of Chinese political organizations and the encouragement from Chinese political parties have not been fully exploited," says the book, whose primary authors are Chen Mingming, a retired Chinese foreign affairs official, and Xiao Cunliang, who was formerly in charge of united front work in a Chinese province.

"The huge increase in population has given Chinese people stronger political influence in Canada. The number of Chinese people running for all levels of government positions is increasing. Some Chinese elites have had very impressive performances in elections," the authors write in the book, which The Globe and Mail obtained in Beijing.

Both researchers declined interview requests; Mr. Xiao hung up on a reporter.

United front work internationally serves two primary purposes: to understand what is happening amongst overseas Chinese and to use them to further Beijing's objectives, said Gerry Groot, a Chinese studies scholar at The University of Adelaide who has extensively studied the trend.

Ethnic Chinese in positions of influence overseas are particularly valuable.

"They hope to be able to use those sort of representatives directly or indirectly to help promote positions which are useful to China or to the Communist Party," Prof. Groot said.

"They hope that ethnic Chinese will be much more sympathetic to Chinese positions and be able to persuade audiences in other countries of the validity of those positions."

Indeed, a United Front teaching manual specifically cites electoral candidates in the Greater Toronto Area as fertile ground.

The manual, first reported by the Financial Times, does not claim Chinese involvement in selecting or prodding candidates to stand for election. But it notes the electoral success of ethnically Chinese in the Toronto area between 2003 and 2010, suggesting that United Front operatives should be "broadly united, aggressively guiding and passionately serving" newly emigrated Chinese overseas, particularly those with high status or possibility for advancement.

For example, according to a Financial Times translation, the document says that in elections across "all the cities and towns in the Toronto area" in 2003, 25 "overseas Chinese" took part and six won.

By 2010, it says, there were 41 "overseas Chinese" candidates in local, regional and school trustee elections in Toronto, Richmond Hill, Markham, Vaughan and elsewhere, although it does not provide specifics or list how many won seats.

A scan of election results yielded numbers roughly in line with the United Front manual.

In 2010, the director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service warned that cabinet ministers in two provinces, as well as several municipal politicians in British Columbia, were suspected of operating under foreign influence.

Toronto's deputy mayor, Denzil Minnan-Wong, has been a city councillor in Toronto since the 1990s. A prominent Conservative and ally of Mayor John Tory, Mr. Minnan-Wong is the Canadian-born son of a Chinese immigrant father. He has met often with China's consular officials to discuss doing business with the city.

He denied having been approached by any organization seeking to extend China's "soft power." But, in an interview, he acknowledged being exposed to Chinese pressure.

He was once called into a meeting with Chinese consular officials and urged not to travel to Taiwan, which mainland China claims is a breakaway province.

"I have travelled to Taiwan before. And the Chinese government has expressed concern to me that they're not pleased," Mr. Minnan-Wong said.

He went anyway.

Still, critics say China's efforts are so wide-reaching that its "foreign influence activities have the potential to undermine the sovereignty and integrity of the political system of targeted states."

That was the conclusion of Anne-Marie Brady, a University of Canterbury professor who recently published a paper documenting extensive Chinese interference in New Zealand, which has included one local politician openly pledging to promote China's policies in Tibet and translating a local party campaign slogan into a Chinese language saying from China's President Xi.

"New Zealand, like many other states in the world, is becoming saturated with the PRC's political influence activities," Prof. Brady wrote, referring to the People's Republic of China.

Those Chinese efforts create profound questions for diverse, democratic countries, where free speech is cherished and the idea of casting suspicion on an ethnic group is considered repugnant. At the same time, China's united front efforts target a specific ethnic group.

"It's a very difficult problem. And it's one that the united front departments like because Western liberal democracies can tie themselves up in knots trying to figure out how best to cope with this," said Prof. Groot.

He added: "We need to be very clear-eyed about the fact that China as a party state has all sorts of reasons and means to try to influence ethnic Chinese overseas."

Prof. Hamilton has argued for tougher laws in response to "this new kind of influence that is being exerted on nations like Australia and Canada."

Australia, for example, is planning new rules to force the registration of foreign agents. Canada has no such legislation, although such a law has long existed in the U.S., where the U.S. China Economic and Security Review Commission recently recommended registering Chinese journalists as foreign agents.

Prof. Hamilton also called for Western countries to be vigilant in guarding their own values as China links its economic clout with a desire for global influence.

"Humans have a remarkable capacity to be blinded by money," he said. "And we are seeing that blindness exploited at all levels."

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby Singha » 26 Nov 2017 10:54

And our generals still think war is to be fought in isolation on
Imported tfta ponies like mediaeval knights?

Hybrid war is a 24x7 business now

People in leadership roles are out of depth in acknowledging the new realities vs tsp focussed 70s era doctrine notes passed on by seniors

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Postby nam » 26 Nov 2017 18:11

NRao wrote:
nam wrote:
Might is right. All the enthusiasm about quad is a result of Dholam incident. If India did not stare down the dragon, it would have been only "Pacific" triad...

They want India to keep the hans busy on the roof.


A small quibble or two.

Quad is from 2007.

And the weak link in the Quad is Australia.


I was referring to the sudden love for the "quad" by the Aussies and the India "white" paper. They give out the impression that India is the weak link.

Jumping on the bandwagon to show as "one of the boys", due to the Dolam incident. As you said, having them in or out, makes no difference.


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