India-Australia News and Discussion

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 07 Jan 2010 03:15

Pot calling the kettle black

Indian TV's unsound fury

From the comments section, a typical oz in denial

The Indian reaction to these events is itself racist. We all agree one life is too many. In perspective, more Indian lives are lost in India than outside India. The deaths of young people is a reaction to Indian beliefs in their racial superiority & national pride as a future super-power, the outrage excessive. What about the number of untouchables that are murdered each year simply because of their caste? I work for an Indian-owned company & it was made clear to us that locals will always be second-rate in their minds. The Indian govt "high & mighty" reaction distracts attention from problems at home & binds Indians together with a common cause. Like we do with boat people.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 07 Jan 2010 04:08

^^^ Ah the caste whipping boy.
BTW Australia send us the most rabid missionaries as well. One of them accused of raping 100's of little boys in AP/TN. He has scuttled notice and punishment because of his vertical and horizontal connections

Arihant · Post by **Arihant** » 07 Jan 2010 06:44

An acknowledgement, from within Australia, of racism in Australian society: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2787261.htm

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 07 Jan 2010 16:13

It's alright guys... It is just an example of two democracies tangling, and both rather blind to each other in many ways. One (Oz) wondering WTF hit them, and the other (India) wondering how TF to hit them without causing more damage than necessary.

Best bet would be for Oz to get the bottom of the matter. Clearly there is a disproportion if the numbers are right (haven't gone into the details), and there should be some answer as to why this is so.

"More Indians die in India than outside" - is hardly an argument. There are, obviously, more Indians in India. Unless the Aussies want us all to move there to prove that, in fact, less Indians die in India than in Oz. It's an option many Indians will consider, even now

KaranR · Post by **KaranR** » 07 Jan 2010 16:51

More High Caste Trash To be Dumped On Asia !
January 08, 2010

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/breakin ... 5815567438

UK wants Australia, former colony, to keep its criminals
• By Charles Miranda
• From: PerthNow
• January 02, 2010 8:47PM
TWO hundred years ago its worst citizens were transported to the other side of the world, creating Australia in the process.

Now cash-strapped Britain wants its former colony to keep its criminals again.

In the past 12 months, dozens of British-born paedophiles, rapists and career criminals, many in their late 50s and 60s, were deported to the UK after finishing their sentences in Australian jails, despite having lived most of their lives Down Under.

Among them was notorious paedophile Raymond Horne, who was given a police escort through Heathrow Airport amid British outrage over his forced return from Queensland.

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Jan 2010 17:52

The Australian reaction to the multiple beatings and killings of Indians in Australia is still woefully short of the appropriate

.

One hopes that our Ministry of External Affairs delivers a appropriately tough message for the below inapproriate reaction of Australia’s acting Foreign Minister Simon Crean. Apparently given that Indians get murdered in Mumbai and Delhi its somehow okay for it to happen in Melbourne

:

Avoid hysteria, Crean urges

BRIDIE SMITH, SELMA MILOVANOVIC AND JONATHAN PEARLMAN
January 6, 2010

ACTING Foreign Minister Simon Crean has urged Indian leaders not to fuel hysteria over the killing of a student in Melbourne, after India's External Affairs Minister called the stabbing a ''heinous crime on humanity''.

Mr Crean said there was no evidence the attack was racially motivated, saying it was one of a spate of stabbings in Melbourne over the Christmas period.

''It so happens that one of the victims is Indian … Melbourne is not the only city in the world where this happens. It also happens in Delhi and in Mumbai,'' Mr Crean said.

''It's an unfortunate fact of life, but so far as the victim is concerned and his parents, our deepest sympathy for them and we're doing everything we can to track down the perpetrators.''

Asked about comments by his Indian counterpart S.M. Krishna - who urged Australia to respond to the ''uncivilised brutal attack on innocent Indians'' - Mr Crean said he hoped ''wiser heads will prevail''.

Nitin Garg, 21, was stabbed on his way to work at a Hungry Jack's restaurant in West Footscray on Saturday night. ………………..

The Age

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Jan 2010 19:09

"It so happens...!" I think that MMS should send over a giant pair of spectacles or even a monocle to the wizard of Oz.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 07 Jan 2010 22:54

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article77168.ece

Krishna: why go to Australia for hair styling and facial courses?

Nice to see SM Krishna saying exactly what I said in this forum more than a month ago. SMK has to be polite in his role but we can call spade a spade. For that matter there can be no course or specialisation that OZ offers that India cannot offer because OZ is a backwater and industrial wasteland, not in the forefront of any technology, innovation, patents or whatever. This is a fact, not an opinion. It is a commodity exporter and a tourist destination. Same as Indonesia. It is richer because they are not corrupt and there are only a few of them for a large territory.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 08 Jan 2010 02:57

From the Daily Hate in the UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... tacks.html

The comments are so ignorant. The one that stick out the most is:

"What about the gangs of Indian men who set about raping Australian women a few years ago? Where were the Indian protesters then? A few years ago a few gangs of Muslim men set about attacking a raping white women in Oz, look it up. They were racist attacks but they were not charged as such.

I am getting fed up of white people being attacked and Asian people saying it is not racism but when they are attacked the whole world is racist."

A hate crime is a hate crime no matter who the victim is.
- Brad, NIMBY, 07/1/2010 10:07

They seem to forget how they aquired the country and all that violence they inflicted upon the aboriginals, Vietnamese and other orientals.

Within 20 years the Chinese will give them a headache.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 08 Jan 2010 03:06

Isn't Dailymail known to be a rightwing sensationalist rag?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2010 03:10

Who benefits the most if the Indian students enrollment drop in Australia?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 08 Jan 2010 03:12

SwamyG wrote:Who benefits the most if the Indian students enrollment drop in Australia?

Indian students

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Jan 2010 03:18

^

sorry, I know you don't make that comment in jest. I agree.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 08 Jan 2010 03:23

Suppiah wrote:For that matter there can be no course or specialisation that OZ offers that India cannot offer because OZ is a backwater and industrial wasteland, not in the forefront of any technology, innovation, patents or whatever. This is a fact, not an opinion.

er careful, Suppiah, I have seen some chaps in this forum go heavy on being pointed that out

Things like Flight recorders, hypersonic research etc gets trotted out. All of them are either Univ brochure value research or is an extension of existing knowledge.

AFAIK, sunblock creams is where they made a difference. Thanks to ozone hole bequeathed by their brethren from elsewhere, their melanoma knowledge is top notch. But then again, I too would feverishly try to save my own skin, particularly in a non-native land.

Going to Oz for studies makes as much sense as successive Kerala IT ministers going to Dubai for "investments in IT".

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2010 04:20

>>>Going to Oz for studies makes as much sense as successive Kerala IT ministers going to Dubai for "investments in IT".
I think people are going (sent out) there occupy that continent

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 08 Jan 2010 04:51

Why does prima facie racist intent be proved in order to agree that Australia is not providing adequate protection to Indian citizens?
We can simply conclude by facts so far that Australian Police and Law & Order mechanism leave much to be desired.
There are going to be xenophobes everywhere, but we can only hold the Govt/L&O mechanism accountable.

If Australia cannot protect Indian citizens, perhaps such Indian students could be sent with Indian bodyguards to protect them.
Since Indian students pay fees, the Australian government can pick up the bodyguard cost.
India should be willing and able

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Jan 2010 04:57

SwamyG wrote:
Who benefits the most if the Indian students enrollment drop in Australia?

Indian students

No China.

If we don't send people, Chinese students and Paki's will fill the place up. We must continue sending our people. If not 50 years hence, we will regret it badly. UK is filed with a massive Paki constituency because the Brits in their short sightedness, refused to distinguish Indian ethics from Pakis and BDs. Now they formulate policy against India and spew hatred to keep their constituencies intact.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 08 Jan 2010 05:32

harbans: Thanks, I was looking it from TSP and Panda angles. What are the chances that they could be engineering this situation? I go with the logic you express there. The greatest asset or product India can "export" is its people who might be able to pay rich dividends back in long term. Be it foreign remittances or influencing others. Why is Krishna making the noises?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 08 Jan 2010 06:40

Now Aussies get their knickers twisted by 'blasphemous' cartoons

http://www.news.com.au/national/police- ... 5817199443

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 08 Jan 2010 08:29

^^^^ Love the way convicts are asking Indians to suck it up or leave.
This seems to a trend with all anglo countries - suck it up or leave

Why? Why should we leave a land that they looted from the aboriginees.
Who gave them squatters rights? Their skin color! huh!

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 08 Jan 2010 08:40

Mr Walshe maintained that police still had no evidence to suggest the murder of Mr Garg was racially motivated. He acknowledged that some crimes against Indians living in Melbourne had been motivated by racism.

He was supported in his comments by the Australian high commissioner to India, Peter Varghese, who said most crimes against Indians living and studying in Melbourne were "opportunistic, urban" crimes.

So "opportunistic, urban" crimes are ok? However, racial crimes are not?
A crime is a crime is a crime!

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 08 Jan 2010 08:58

Pulikeshi wrote: So "opportunistic, urban" crimes are ok? However, racial crimes are not?
A crime is a crime is a crime!

Pullikeshi, IMO that is a wrong line to take. No police force, however well equipped, can reasonably be expected to halt 'opportunistic' crimes. A racial crime on the other hand suggests a deeper malaise is society. I do not have a firm opinion on whether this was a hate crime or not, however, it would be interesting to find out what the government planned to do if it did turn out to be a hate crime. For too long Australia has traded generous social security payments over policing requirements, for crime prevention.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 08 Jan 2010 09:18

I do agree that Chinese and other nationalities will fill OZ up and eventually determine OZ policy through sheer demographics...though of course, OZ policies get settled in Washington, not Canberra, so it matters that much less.

...still there is lots of sense in that argument.

Of course, the better way to go about that is for Indian co's to setup shop there, hire Indians in top positions like Nokia and others do. That is long term. We can be a Japan, though crowded never really exported its people, either by accident of history or by deliberate strategy of demographic warfare, except small numbers to Brazil/Peru (who are also coming back).

In the meantime, I guess the current trend of 'students' going there with primary intention of staying on legally or otherwise perhaps will continue. It has dropped 20%, so what. The good thing that will come out of it is that affluent, top class genuine students are the 20% that will stay away - not the immigrants ready to risk their lives for 'better' living. I wonder if the idiots there will realise this.

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 08 Jan 2010 09:26

Arnab,

I sort of agree with you, but here is why I am on the fence.

If they target one "bicycle mechanic" it was perhaps opportunistic,
but when 10 are targeted it is a pattern, but need not be racist.

If one group in society is targetted (perhaps not because of race) but
because they are easy to target, does the Law & Order machinery have
the luxury to say, oh! well! these were opportunistic crimes onlee?

The Australian response has not been serious.
My personal opinion, it is better to take up their incompetence in protecting the innocent.

They cannot be defensive about their incompetence - both political and legal.
Notice the "silence" from the Australian political establishment.
The racism angle is sensational, but very hard to make a case with....
For example, I'd like to know what "hate crime" legislation Australia has...

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 08 Jan 2010 09:58

Pulikeshi wrote:
The racism angle is sensational, but very hard to make a case with....
For example, I'd like to know what "hate crime" legislation Australia has...

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimi ... index.html

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 08 Jan 2010 10:02

JE Menon wrote:It's alright guys... It is just an example of two democracies tangling, and both rather blind to each other in many ways. One (Oz) wondering WTF hit them, and the other (India) wondering how TF to hit them without causing more damage than necessary.

somnath · Post by **somnath** » 08 Jan 2010 10:14

There are a couple of good unis in Australia - Monash is supposed to be pretty good, University of NSW is also regarded pretty well. It is a fact that traditionally, chaps going to study in Australia were the types who would not "make it" to the IITs/IIMs here in India, or get schols in good US schools...Australia offered/offers a cheaper alterantive to the "paying student" compared to the US or UK..But really, going for courses like fashion design is nothing but "refugee tourism"...

Frankly, I have been to Australia (on work and play) quite a few times, and I work with tons of Australians eevry day..I havent felt any systemic racist undertones at all..In fact they are usually quite friendly and relaxed, and compared to the HK chinese, angelic!!!

Was talking to an Indian, settled in Sydney for many years now, and someone who rose pretty high in an Australian organisation..His take was that a lot of the current violence was "street gang" stuff, as the traditional "dadas" (Chinese, LEbanese etc)in certain localities start feeling (and at times getting) threatened by an increasing number of Indians on the streets...Just his take, so take it FWIW..

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 08 Jan 2010 10:37

Sensitivity is not something the leaders of Australia are aware of:

India issues advisory for students in Australia

"Australia is a very safe country. By world standards, we have a very low homicide rate," Gillard said Wednesday. "In big cities around the world, we do see acts of violence from time to time; that happens in Melbourne, it happens in Mumbai, it happens in New York, it happens in London."

So? Who cares?

arnab · Post by **arnab** » 08 Jan 2010 10:42

somnath wrote:There are a couple of good unis in Australia - Monash is supposed to be pretty good, University of NSW is also regarded pretty well. It is a fact that traditionally, chaps going to study in Australia were the types who would not "make it" to the IITs/IIMs here in India, or get schols in good US schools...Australia offered/offers a cheaper alterantive to the "paying student" compared to the US or UK..But really, going for courses like fashion design is nothing but "refugee tourism"...

Frankly, I have been to Australia (on work and play) quite a few times, and I work with tons of Australians eevry day..I havent felt any systemic racist undertones at all..In fact they are usually quite friendly and relaxed, and compared to the HK chinese, angelic!!!

Was talking to an Indian, settled in Sydney for many years now, and someone who rose pretty high in an Australian organisation..His take was that a lot of the current violence was "street gang" stuff, as the traditional "dadas" (Chinese, LEbanese etc)in certain localities start feeling (and at times getting) threatened by an increasing number of Indians on the streets...Just his take, so take it FWIW..

Actually ANU and Uni Melbourne are the top two Unis in Australia. But this is OT. I think the jury is till out on whether the govt response has been adequate or not. But what the Australian government knows is the following: Currently in Australia there are 5 persons working for every public pensioner, 40 years down the line there will be 2.4 persons working for every 1 person on pension. And this will be despite taking in around 150 000 migrants per year. (Just to clarify - so the Australian government would not want to jump the gun and apologise to all for having a 'racist population'. It will want to project Australia as an island of tranquility where migrants are welcome and safe, which most of the time - it is.)

Australia wants a fair amount of low skilled workers to take care of the demographic problem (nurses, taxi drivers, supermarket workers, hair salon workers and low level IT workers). They also want a fair amount of high skilled workers (doctors, bankers, high end IT professionals, academicians, public servants). The latter by virtue of moving in relatively rarified circles do not face racism (at least not overtly). The former do. The former come here to often study in dodgy colleges and are forced to work graveyard shifts to meet their living expenses. This provides the 'opportunity'.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 08 Jan 2010 11:43

I've heard good things about University of NSW in Science and Technology. They were lucky enough to have John Lions on the faculty for CS. Aussies (also true for Finns and Scandinavians in general) punch way above their weight for CS, given the number of folks in the Free Software Movement.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 08 Jan 2010 11:51

I agree with Somnath. By and large Australia is a good place to visit and far better than some other locations. I also have made several local (temporary) friends over a VB at various bars something that NEVER happens in HK or Manila for instance. But oz folks, while nice and gentle are also terribly insecure about their own standing and hence look at anyone as a threat to their jobs. This includes poms that come over from UK, so it is not a race issue. They are also somewhat clanish, old boys network counting a lot unlike in US etc.

The oz minister is also right, many of these hate crimes are actually by non-white population such as lebanese so they do not qualify as hate crimes by majority. Generally chinese gangs/triads/criminals stick to their own race even for the purpose of crime, so that's why it has not been an issue too I guess.

Until the recent commodity boom fueled by PRC, oz was just a nice little place where you relax and have fun, with not much jobs or business potential hence this insecurity amongst the core anglo population.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jan 2010 12:37

....so out of the 1400 odd incidents, how many of the alleged non-Caucasian gang members who are responsible for these alleged murders of alleged Indian students have been arrested since as per an Oz minister the Oz police are allegedly working allegedly hard?

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 08 Jan 2010 13:24

"Cartoons in Australia are normally done by people who are either clever or witty and this one's neither," he told reporters in Melbourne today.

Opening up a white man is very hard and they've always proved a tough nut to crack. Glad to see that image has made them candid.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 08 Jan 2010 13:37

That is a classic cartoon that kicked the ozies right in their perineum

1) worst possible caricature of a judgmental figure with Klan mask
2) deliberately ignoring Indian concerns after overwhelming evidence
3) Gross incompetency

So now poor Shree R Prasad joins the ranks of Scandinavian cartoonist and Ozzies hurry to join the ranks of Al qaeda in stifling freedom of expression.

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 08 Jan 2010 14:12

How the indian media is playing the aussies is sad but remember, the australian tv channels smell of indian caste system, communal-ism etc etc. This is a great way to make them taste there own medicine.

So i wondered what the aussie's are saying about this attack. Most of them know it's a hype. I'll post a few comments.

Is it still racially motivated if the killer turns out to be a Pakistani national?

It's mainly aborigines, Africans, and lebanese targetting Indians.

It's proof of how easy it is to accuse people of racism these days.
They have no idea who killed this guy yet but already it's being labelled a racist attack. Idiots.

The Indian Caste system is basically racism legally entrenched. Who are they to complain? Not to say I agree with roughing up Indians, I just get sick of hearing hypocrites.

f**k off. australia does not need Indians, their dumb students, their lazy "workforce" and their rorting "executives'.
f**k right off.

I think we should get some effigy's made of the cartoonist and burn them in the street....

All Indians pack your bags and be ready for the next flight home, sorry thats the way we voted..
Please leave and take the Muslims with you at once..
We are sick to our bones with your crap here and smells.

As for the Indian newspaper, Victoria should sue them for billions, just to make a point

The thing that is wrong here is the indian visa rules. The govt. should send some people other than book worms to that country. Pakistan and bangladesh does that. Send a few MNS loyal maharashtrains or even agri's in the name of community welfare and leave to them to slug it out with the pakis and the bangladeshi's living there. It about time indians change there passport and visa rules.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 08 Jan 2010 14:38

Thank you, R Prasad or whoever you are

. The assies get their unglis in a twist when someone points at their racist underbelly. Maaki-gate initiated the proceedings, and the current situation provides ample opportunities to kick the butt of the assies.

If any assie is reading this: we want access to Uranium and other raw materials that have been consistently denied, else we will twist it further in your hindside, well you heard that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jan 2010 14:42

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8447465.stm

Australia rejects Indian cartoon in racist attacks row
Cartoon showing hooded KKK-like figure with Victoria Police badge - image from Mail Today
The cartoon appeared in the 5 January edition of Delhi's Mail Today

Australia has condemned as "deeply offensive" an Indian newspaper cartoon depicting the police as members of the racist Ku Klux Klan.

India's Mail Today ran the cartoon showing a figure with an Australian police badge and a pointed white hood.

It follows the murder of Indian Nitin Garg, 21, in Melbourne and a string of other attacks on South Asians.

Australian officials say the attacks have not been racist, but random acts by opportunistic criminals.

'Slow news day'

The cartoon in the Delhi Mail Today newspaper portrayed a person in a white Ku Klux Klan hood and wearing a Victoria state police badge and the words: "We are yet to ascertain the nature of the crime."

The Victoria state minister of police, Bob Cameron, condemned the cartoon.

"Victoria Police is a very tolerant organisation and Victoria is a very tolerant state and to suggest that Victoria Police is racist is just plain wrong," Mr Cameron said.

Deputy Prime Minister Julia Gillard said she had not seen the cartoon but she said: "Any suggestion of the kind is deeply offensive and I would condemn the making of such comment."

She said police in Victoria's capital Melbourne, where Mr Garg was murdered, had increased patrols in areas where violent attacks have taken place.

The state's police union said the drawing was based on nothing but "a slow news day in Delhi".

"Cartoons in Australia are normally done by people who are either clever or witty and this one's neither," the secretary of Victoria's Police Association, Greg Davies, told reporters.

He said it was too early to say that Mr Garg's murder was racially motivated and that it was "incredibly offensive and wrong" to suggest police were not investigating the crime.

The past year of attacks on Indian students in Melbourne and Sydney have made headlines in India and caused diplomatic relations to sour between Canberra and Delhi.

The Indian government issued a travel advisory to students going to Australia, after the murder of Nitin Garg.

The issue now poses a threat to Australia's lucrative international education industry.

Australia has published figures indicating the number of Indians wanting to study in the country has plummeted by 46%.

Australia's Tourism Forecasting Committee said in December that more than 70,000 Indians studied in Australia in 2009, accounting for 19% of total international enrolments.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 08 Jan 2010 14:46

Well, the assies can easily dispel the "myth" of racism by providing facts and figures of how many folks they have apprehended, how many drug-busts they have done in the western and NW suburbs of Mel, how many folks are in jail and what is the sentencing like, what follow-up akshun has been done on the Yindian cases, after all, Yindian edu pie is a 12b Oz$ market, aint it mate? Smt Girrard would do better than condemn and excoriate, do your homework madam.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 08 Jan 2010 14:48

Who ever came up with that cartoon?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jan 2010 14:51

sounds like word is spreading on jungle drums. this will help to ensure less students from other asian countries too.

brisbane times

'Hate crimes' spark global bad press
DAN HARRISON
January 8, 2010

THE international fallout from the murder of Nitin Garg has spread well beyond India, with media outlets in Asia, the Middle East, North America and Europe reporting the trouble in Australia.

The bad press, which until now has largely been confined to India, has raised fears that the damage to Australia's $17 billion international education industry could spread to other countries.

In China, the birthplace of almost a quarter of Australia's international students, the major state-run television network yesterday reported the factually incorrect claim that police had confirmed that the murder of Indian national Ranjodh Singh, whose partially burnt body was found beside a country road in south-west NSW on December 29, was "racially motivated".
The cartoon published in Delhi's Mail Today.

The cartoon published in Delhi's Mail Today.

The official Chinese newsagency, Xinhua, this week reported that the stabbing murder of Mr Garg, as he made his way to work at a fast-food outlet in Melbourne's west on Saturday night, had taken place "in the wake of a wave of attacks upon Indian students in Australia last year".

In an editorial, Gulf News, of the United Arab Emirates, said "motive based on hatred" was "the common trend" in a number of attacks in urban Australia recently.

"This trend is simply unacceptable," the paper said. "Law enforcement authorities and judicial officials at state and federal level in Australia must take every possible measure to ensure these hate crimes are prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. There can be no velvet glove treatment for those who commit heinous crimes."

The Financial Times, The Telegraph, The Irish Times, the Voice of America and The New Zealand Herald were among publications that also produced their own reports on the situation.

The Malaysian Sun published its report under the headline: "Australian Government unable to stop crime against Indians."

As politicians and officials continued to defend Australia as a safe place to study, Australia's high commissioner to India, Peter Varghese, told journalists in New Delhi race may have been a motive for some recent attacks on Indian nationals, particularly where the attackers engaged in racial abuse. But he told a press conference most assaults on Indian students were "opportunistic urban crime".