India-Australia News and Discussion

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RoyG
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by RoyG »

chetak wrote:
SSridhar wrote:The most remarkable improvement we have seen in our bilateral relationship with any country in the last decade has been with Oz, especially after the Malabar fiasco of 2007.
australia has been anti India for the longest time going back tens of decades, and even before our independence

one is not convinced that any fundamental or structural changes have occurred in the colonially time warped aussie society for one to think otherwise

even now, there is a overt and fundamental animosity towards Indians in general and India in particular. Many family friends have attested to the fact that there has been virtually no effort on the part of the aussies, society or state, to try and bridge the gap, whereas they seem ultrasensitive to the mostly barely legal needs and demands of their fellow abrahamics, who BTW, continue to crash their party in increasing numbers year after year

One finds it amusing to see the official aussie machinery singing, albeit a tad off key, paeans of praise and undying declarations of political love for India.

Truly, the cheeni buzzards have managed to scare the very pants off the aussie's tattered sovereignty and shrunken mojo.

the aussies seem to have lost their white abrahamic confidence when the cheeni locusts swamped their ecosystem and set about to capture it by slow and systematic subversion of the aussie narrative and the hollowing out of many institutions at the core of the aussie persona
It's business and security. Aus cant be overly reliant on US. Anything can happen tom.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

chetak wrote:australia has been anti India for the longest time going back tens of decades, and even before our independence . . .
Doesn't really matter.

We are not in the business to convince anyone that they should drop their white supremacist or colonial mentality. While we would forcefully counter that at every instance, striving for a fundamental change in their mindset is a wasteful process and would be unsuccessful in the end anyway. We do not have the diplomatic bandwidth to do that either.

Our aim is to secure our interests. We played hardball with them over their inclusion in Ex. Malabar and made them understand we can't be toyed around with, without consequences. It was at Japan's request that we included RAN in Malabar, not even under US pressure. We needed Uranium from them, we got it. For 28 years, no Indian PM had visited Australia until Modi did it in 2014. Oz supports us in NSG & UNSC. We need diversification of energy sources and Australia is important for that too. We need the RAN for maritime domain awareness of the PLAN in the IOR.

India and Australia have more common grounds for closer partnership than, say, Iran and KSA. We may have our justified anger against the West but we cannot allow that to define our identity because we are not Pakistan to behave so.

Even as I welcome the schadenfreude whenever any country instils some sense among the wild Western nations, and that included arch-enemy China, I do also see dangers of that for India when certain redlines are encroached.

While we are justified in being tentative and distrustful of the US, we cannot simply lose sight, in our angst, of the biggest threat facing India today, CHINA. It is definitely not the US, at this time.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Critical minerals in Australian FTA; duty cuts on farm items unlikely: Commerce and industry minister Piyush Goyal - ToI
India and Australia are looking to include critical minerals under the expanded free trade agreement (FTA), even as commerce and industry minister Piyush Goyal on Saturday made clear the government's reservations on reducing import duties on farm and dairy products.

"India is short of critical minerals. Australia has a large reserve of critical minerals that go into (electric vehicle) batteries, which are not fully processed or manufactured currently," Goyal said after meeting Australia's trade minister Don Farrell.

Critical minerals, along with space technology and opportunities in the digital sector, will be key areas of the planned deal, said Farrell.

While Australia has traditionally argued for lower import duties on agricultural and dairy products, Goyal said that Canberra acknowledged India's concerns given that a large majority of Indian farmers had small land holdings and their cattle stock was sufficient to meet their own requirements.
chetak
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:
chetak wrote:australia has been anti India for the longest time going back tens of decades, and even before our independence . . .
Doesn't really matter.

We are not in the business to convince anyone that they should drop their white supremacist or colonial mentality. While we would forcefully counter that at every instance, striving for a fundamental change in their mindset is a wasteful process and would be unsuccessful in the end anyway. We do not have the diplomatic bandwidth to do that either.

Our aim is to secure our interests. We played hardball with them over their inclusion in Ex. Malabar and made them understand we can't be toyed around with, without consequences. It was at Japan's request that we included RAN in Malabar, not even under US pressure. We needed Uranium from them, we got it. For 28 years, no Indian PM had visited Australia until Modi did it in 2014. Oz supports us in NSG & UNSC. We need diversification of energy sources and Australia is important for that too. We need the RAN for maritime domain awareness of the PLAN in the IOR.

India and Australia have more common grounds for closer partnership than, say, Iran and KSA. We may have our justified anger against the West but we cannot allow that to define our identity because we are not Pakistan to behave so.

Even as I welcome the schadenfreude whenever any country instils some sense among the wild Western nations, and that included arch-enemy China, I do also see dangers of that for India when certain redlines are encroached.

While we are justified in being tentative and distrustful of the US, we cannot simply lose sight, in our angst, of the biggest threat facing India today, CHINA. It is definitely not the US, at this time.

Tolerance as a virtue is over rated and it is usually the first refuge of those without convictions like our unchosen but rammed down the throat leaders like neverwho and the mysteriously paradropped stretcher bearer working in conjunction, and also alongside with their assigned and britshit supported/funded commie cohorts.

using the spectacle of a craftily cosseted and fabricated mahatma and an abrahamically subverted neverwho whose baser instincts were pandered to, and whose idea of strategy was mostly priapic, the britshits prevailed in securing their interests by virtue of their behind the scene machinations to demolish the Indian freedom movement and repurpose the political entity to serve their interests during the two world wars and also in the decades beyond 1947 where they protected their strategic and financial interests. The jehadis, by this time (a few years before 1947) already had their secret deal between djinna and churchill which was based on the Indian nation being fed to the dogs.

Djinna was backstabbed and he finally ended up with his "moth eaten pakistan", a parting gift from his treacherous "friends" and erstwhile secret allies

The vital importance of control over assets like India was already a known fact and much envied by powers like germany, russia, and japan and this criticality, in no small measure, also fed into the major reasons for the precipitation of the two world wars and was also the raison d'être for much of the geopolitical instability in the decades that followed. Even today, the situation has not changed by much.

our threats definitely include the US and all other such alien ideologies which seek to homogenize society, culturally overpower by replacement of dogma, and also seek to direct the national thought into abrahamic channels using a manufactured concept of sicklularism tailored to maximize local damage by lulling the sensibilities of foolish sanatanis

was it tolerance that made the sanatanis accept five "education ministers" of India, post independence, who were khattar jehadis or was it something else...
The first Education Minister was Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a Hinduphobe and pan-Islamist who served 2 successive terms for a total of 11 years. Imagine, giving education portfolio to a Muslim minister just months after Partition during which Maulana showed his jehad agenda.

The second Education Minister was a Hindu. The 3rd Education Minister was Humayun Kabir. 4th MC Chagla. 5th Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed. 10th Nurul Hassan.

These Muslim ministers (backed by communists) not only glorified the Mughals but also downplayed Rana Pratap, Shivaji, the Marathas and Cholas. The mighty Vijayanagara Empire is dismissed in one fleeting para while multiple chapters are devoted to the Mughal period.

Roughly 80% of the real estate in school history textbooks is occupied by the Islamic period of 1192 CE to 1707 CE – a period of 500 years. The other 5,000 years are skimmed over in the remaining 20% of pages.
these threats are valid even today and they are BIF supported to neutralize sanatani perceptions of "shatrubodh", just like bollywood and the film industry are actively doing

It was this so called tolerance that got us a really bad bargain from the britshits when they departed leaving behind their legions of quislings and that included their inculturation and legalized pandering by directing what went into the constitution.

Verify as a standard procedure but trust only on a case by case basis. Geopolitically speaking, nations deal mostly in the here and now, and are subject to the rapidly mutating influences that dominate momentarily, even as narratives evolve, and interests change focus with new intent and the consequent content foregrounding to accommodate perceived commonality of newer and shifting alliances and geopolitically mandated strategic coherence to protect our supreme national interests. We also need to be sensitive toward the preservation of our own cultural persona and civilizational moorings. Tolerance is never the answer when it is only us who are being bullied into such submission, especially when it is cleverly pitched as the mandated price to be paid when entry to an exclusive club is either being sought or offered

Both the self created chaos that was wilfully precipitated after the egress from afghanistan and the bigger mess that is currently dominating the global stage came out of left field. Rightfully, they are both black swans, the suddenness of their onset, considering the stunning speed of development, the sheer scale and scope of the devastation that has been generated by them, devastating economies, pulverising established global supply chains, and like a major hurricane in full cry, leaving behind a trail of wrecked but non involved countries and their pillaged innocents, and both leaving the US with massive trust issues in the way that the world sees them now

There is little doubt that the origins of these two black swans are traceable back to the same puppet masters

we would have been in a much worse state than the pakis, the beedis or the lankans, but for Modi and his team
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Image
sanjaykumar
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by sanjaykumar »

Conquer those Sikh lands that are under Rawalpindi and Kabul. Then bloviate. The Hindus will be happy to provide you with a kirpan and point you towards Lahore.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by vimal »

chetak wrote:Image
Ja Simran ja, jee le apni zindagi. We set you free as independent people with their capital in Lahore and kingdom in Afghanistan. Take you sorry tashrif to your Kingdom.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Suresh S »

Incredible writing skills chetakji. hope to meet u someday. keep it up my friend. Mostly agree with your views.I view both USA and china as our major threats . USA is a bigger threat due to it,s technological prowess (given to them in no small major by indian,s chinese, koreans and eastern europeans).

I believe in the next 10-20 years we will have a major kinetic conflict with china while war by other means will continue all the time. Same with USA.I fully expect a kinetic conflict with western powers and India in the coming decades, totally unavoidable due to completely different perspective of looking at the world and nature.

Very very high regards for the prime minister. All this taklif in the western world in the last 3 yrs is because India is undergoing nothing short of cataclysmic change in a good way. I say it with danke ke chot pe that Bharat has has made more progress in the last 9 years than in the last 1400 years.

What these western powers and China are not realizing is that Modiji will not remain prime minister forever. In the not so distant future someone may take over in Bharat who will see these cultures for what they really are with catastrophic consequences for these countries that is what they are afraid of.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Suresh S wrote:Incredible writing skills chetakji. hope to meet u someday. keep it up my friend. Mostly agree with your views.I view both USA and china as our major threats . USA is a bigger threat due to it,s technological prowess (given to them in no small major by indian,s chinese, koreans and eastern europeans).

I believe in the next 10-20 years we will have a major kinetic conflict with china while war by other means will continue all the time. Same with USA.I fully expect a kinetic conflict with western powers and India in the coming decades, totally unavoidable due to completely different perspective of looking at the world and nature.

Very very high regards for the prime minister. All this taklif in the western world in the last 3 yrs is because India is undergoing nothing short of cataclysmic change in a good way. I say it with danke ke chot pe that Bharat has has made more progress in the last 9 years than in the last 1400 years.

What these western powers and China are not realizing is that Modiji will not remain prime minister forever. In the not so distant future someone may take over in Bharat who will see these cultures for what they really are with catastrophic consequences for these countries that is what they are afraid of.
Thanks Suresh S ji. :)
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by ricky_v »

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-inter ... onal-state
article on expected lines, eloquent, but has some interesting notions
The question, though, is whether in seeking a serious, sustainable and mature relationship, we’re ultimately well served by the public narrowing of our intentions to a thematically simple formula – “Cricket! Democracy! Mates!” Is our understanding of India being outstripped by our enthusiasm for fast-tracked intimacy? And if so, are we naively entangling ourselves in, and giving tacit support to, domestic Indian ideological developments that diverge widely from our own principled commitments?
In a world of communicative immediacy, intensified migration and closer inter-societal ties, foreign and domestic politics have been made continuous. That’s to say that foreign policy becomes inseparable from domestic political interests and agendas. Interests are pursued through social opinion and will formation in addition to the usual relationships between elite actors and across governmental agencies. Developmental narratives articulated in international fora are redirected towards domestic audiences, affirming certain political presuppositions or ideological tendencies. In this context, Australian policymakers will find it difficult to speak seriously about India’s regional role without touching upon its internal politics. It would be better that they do so reflectively rather than inadvertently.
What’s more, the “civilisational state” concept isn’t straightforwardly consonant with the constitutional state concept. Of course, constitutionalism is itself a living cultural commitment and, in the Indian setting, the ideals and modes of agency sponsored by the constitution interweave with the textures of ordinary life, becoming a source of cultural formation. Still, in Jaishankar’s formulation, the constitution, as a secular statement of foundational, cross-culturally shareable, principles, is placed under pressure by the integrative ideal of civilisational unity. Modern constitutions integrate by principle rather than uniformity of cultural self-understanding. In contrast, Jaishankar’s set piece phrase weds state cohesion to an ideologically simplified portrait of Indian ethical culture and historical experience before which many, particularly India’s large Muslim minority, may pause warily (to say the least).
To be credible and mature in this partnership – to be taken seriously as interlocutors – means to exhibit a more obvious familiarity with India’s domestic politics and the meaning of certain formulations in this setting.

More broadly, I would suggest that for too long Australian policymakers have tended to think in methodologically secular, structural and commercial terms, leaving them hamstrung when faced with intensely religious, internally multivalent, societies in which the constitutional state negotiates for social authority with deeply inlaid devotional cultures and political ideologies.

Engaging across the Indian Ocean with a mega-state undergoing deepening social rifts along identarian lines requires some level of well-informed caution.
maybe the inc can look into utilising its limited, and well-founded funds for a raga special indian-democracy tour in ozistan, some ears are open
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

ricky_v wrote:https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-inter ... onal-state
article on expected lines, eloquent, but has some interesting notions
The question, though, is whether in seeking a serious, sustainable and mature relationship, we’re ultimately well served by the public narrowing of our intentions to a thematically simple formula – “Cricket! Democracy! Mates!” Is our understanding of India being outstripped by our enthusiasm for fast-tracked intimacy? And if so, are we naively entangling ourselves in, and giving tacit support to, domestic Indian ideological developments that diverge widely from our own principled commitments?
In a world of communicative immediacy, intensified migration and closer inter-societal ties, foreign and domestic politics have been made continuous. That’s to say that foreign policy becomes inseparable from domestic political interests and agendas. Interests are pursued through social opinion and will formation in addition to the usual relationships between elite actors and across governmental agencies. Developmental narratives articulated in international fora are redirected towards domestic audiences, affirming certain political presuppositions or ideological tendencies. In this context, Australian policymakers will find it difficult to speak seriously about India’s regional role without touching upon its internal politics. It would be better that they do so reflectively rather than inadvertently.
What’s more, the “civilisational state” concept isn’t straightforwardly consonant with the constitutional state concept. Of course, constitutionalism is itself a living cultural commitment and, in the Indian setting, the ideals and modes of agency sponsored by the constitution interweave with the textures of ordinary life, becoming a source of cultural formation. Still, in Jaishankar’s formulation, the constitution, as a secular statement of foundational, cross-culturally shareable, principles, is placed under pressure by the integrative ideal of civilisational unity. Modern constitutions integrate by principle rather than uniformity of cultural self-understanding. In contrast, Jaishankar’s set piece phrase weds state cohesion to an ideologically simplified portrait of Indian ethical culture and historical experience before which many, particularly India’s large Muslim minority, may pause warily (to say the least).
To be credible and mature in this partnership – to be taken seriously as interlocutors – means to exhibit a more obvious familiarity with India’s domestic politics and the meaning of certain formulations in this setting.

More broadly, I would suggest that for too long Australian policymakers have tended to think in methodologically secular, structural and commercial terms, leaving them hamstrung when faced with intensely religious, internally multivalent, societies in which the constitutional state negotiates for social authority with deeply inlaid devotional cultures and political ideologies.

Engaging across the Indian Ocean with a mega-state undergoing deepening social rifts along identarian lines requires some level of well-informed caution.
maybe the inc can look into utilising its limited, and well-founded funds for a raga special indian-democracy tour in ozistan, some ears are open
This is the standardized sentiment and very frequently expressed in one form or the other, especially by the predatory and proselytizing mindset that comes with the territory.

They want India's cultural id to subsume itself into the abrahamic character that is largely based on the a psyche that comes from outside but these abrahamics have never bothered, in all these centuries, to acknowledge the already existing civilization that has evolved and adapted to the times to remain relevant.

The jehadis maintain aggressively different modes of dress, outlook, diet, ravaging belief system, and are prone to frequently demand privileges that do not bode well for the constitutional state, let alone the civilizational one.

So there is a dichotomy and that is to be settled by give and take and India has already parted with humongous land masses to the east and west to accommodate the other so we need not give anything more.

Now, the grasping abrahamics are going after the Hindu culture globally and under various pretences, excuses and charades by manufacturing non existent pain points.

We need to stand our ground and Jaishankar is absolutely right.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.firstpost.com/world/brisban ... 96312.html
Australia: Indian Consulate forced to close down in Brisbane by Khalistani supporters
Slogans were also raised against Hindus calling them supremacists with Khalistan Zindabad
FP Staff March 15, 2023

New Delhi: The Khalistani supporters today forced to close down the Indian Consulate in Brisbane.
According to a report in the Australia Today, Queensland Police said it was an unauthorised gathering. “Slogans were raised against Hindus calling them supremacists with Khalistan Zindabad,” the report added.
Meanwhile, supporters of the Khalistani movement attacked the Indian Consulate in Brisbane in Australia’s Queensland last month as well.
The attack on the Indian Consulate took place barely days after India asked Australia to rein in Khalistani separatists, who have been on the rampage attacking Hindu temples abroad.
The Consulate, located on Swann Road in the Taringa suburb of Brisbane, was earlier stormed by Khalistani supporters on the night of 21 February.
Consul of India in Brisbane, Archana Singh, found a Khalistan flag at the office when she had arrived for work the following day. She immediately informed the Queensland Police, which confiscated the flag and checked the Consulate to ascertain if there was any further threat to the premises.
“We have faith in the police and the authorities,” Archana Singh told Australia Today.
Another journalist, Australia Today Editor J Bhardwaj had told news agency ANI that so far, there were attacks on Indian Australians. “But now, they (Khalistani supporters) are targeting institutions belonging to the Indian government. The attack on the Indian Consulate in Brisbane is a direct attack on the Government of India,” Bhardwaj said.
......
Gautam
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Some realities of AUKUS that have a bearing on the QUAD and India Australia relations:

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/03/15/c ... snt-china/

Australia is not arming itself against China to protect itself from China. Australia is arming itself against China to protect itself from the United States.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Cyrano wrote:Some realities of AUKUS that have a bearing on the QUAD and India Australia relations:

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/03/15/c ... snt-china/

Australia is not arming itself against China to protect itself from China. Australia is arming itself against China to protect itself from the United States.


The amerikis already have a nuke sub base in guam and now also want to base strategic bombers and missiles in northern AU.

there is a very clear quid pro quo

The Agence France-Presse first reported that Australia could receive Tomahawk missiles and other long range precision weapons as part of the deal
U.S. President Joe Biden’s administration is hoping to secure more U.S. military basing rights in the region, multiple current and former officials said in the wake of a landmark deal to build nuclear-powered submarines with Britain and Australia
The britshits are fighting not only to retain their geopolitical relevance, but also their geoeconomic viability by becoming the tail of the US dog, as it were.

The britshits have been shoehorned into the US AU deal because, after their brexit miscalculation, they have been shut out and shunned by the europeans and their amreki mai baaps were cajoled into including them to ensure that the britshits retained their big boy halo. In reality, they are nothing better than a provincial two bit principality and have been ever since they "won" the WWII all by themselves

so the britshits are running around like headless chickens, trying to sign FTAs and defence deals and tagging themselves on to big commercial initiatives like the boeing led deal with India. Tatas have always had an unhealthy fetish for the britshits and hopefully, this will not lead to any misadventures in the commercial space.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Are Aus feeling orphaned after the passing of the Queen? They always seem to need to be with their Papa or Mummy.

They have realised the Aukat of the UK and seem to have switched completely to the sugar daddys side.

Even their kid brother doesn't seem so needy - he is content playing with sheep.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Oz is orphaned since Churchill used them callously as cannon fodder at Gallipoli.
Imperial Japan's sweep in the Pacific confirmed its vulnerability.
After WWII they made many treaties with the US and were generally junior cub scouts.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

ramana wrote:Oz is orphaned since Churchill used them callously as cannon fodder at Gallipoli.
Imperial Japan's sweep in the Pacific confirmed its vulnerability.
After WWII they made many treaties with the US and were generally junior cub scouts.
left them culturally confused too

the aussies couldn't figure out if they should identify as amerikis or europeans...

the buggers certainly didn't want to identify as asians
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.rediff.com/news/report/3-mo ... 230330.htm
3 more arrested in Australia for Khalistan clashes
Source: PTI, March 30, 2023

The Australian police have arrested three more people in connection with two incidents of brawl that broke out between Khalistan activists and pro-India demonstrators in Melbourne in late January, the police said on Thursday.
The alleged incidents happened during the so-called 'Punjab independence referendum' where two fights broke out between the two groups which injured several people on January 29, the Victoria police said in a statement.
Apparently, flag poles were used by several men as weapons which caused physical injuries to multiple victims, the statement said.
The US-based Sikhs for Justice, the group spearheading the non-binding referendum, is a banned organisation in India.
The three arrested include a 23-year-old man charged with affray and unlawful assault while a 36-year-old and 39-year-old have been charged with affray and violent disorder, the police said.
The identities of the arrested men have not been disclosed.
Earlier, two men aged 34 and 39 were arrested and issued a penalty notice for riotous behaviour.
All those charged this week have been bailed to appear at the Melbourne magistrates' court on August 8.
Further investigation is underway and the police are making enquiries to identify and apprehend any further alleged offenders from the day, the statement added.
......
Gautam
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Sagrawal »

PM Modi will be in Sydney on 23rd May. Fingers crossed, may be finally able to see the man in person.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by sanman »

"Sikhs for Justice" is organizing Khalistanis worldwide

Their latest event has been disallowed by Local authorities in Blacktown, Australia

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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Sagrawal wrote:PM Modi will be in Sydney on 23rd May. Fingers crossed, may be finally able to see the man in person.
Breaking news: Confirmed by India: Australia PM Albanese to join Indian PM Modi's diaspora event in Sydney.. It's going to be big!

Incredible that the man has 40+ engagements, meetings with 20+ world leaders during his upcoming visit to Japan, Papua New Guinea & Australia, and yet he is scheduling events with diaspora like this.

(With Biden missing PNG - Modi is going to take center-stage!)
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Sagrawal »

I am also hearing rumours of Harris Park being renamed as Little India when PM Modi is here. Not sure if that's going to happen.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by sanman »

Amber G.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

In his every overseas visit, PM Modi interacts with eminent personalities from a diverse set of backgrounds. A very personalised "Friends of India" outreach...Here is his tweet about meeting US/Australian Nobel prize winning Physicist..


<video clip>Prof Schmidt praised India’s strides in research and science. He says India’s ability to do world-class science has become an order of magnitude higher.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

There is entirely too much of saccharine filled praise and near adulation for Modi and India in the aussie press and this is not normal for their notoriously partisan gaggle of presstitutes

The aussies are notoriously racist, and in the past, have never been so fawning of India or its PM.

I refuse to believe in fairytales and this spectacle leaves one a bit uneasy, with an edgy feeling that something is cooking

something doesn't seem to sit right and this palpably spurious media blitz is possibly indicative of some big ask by the aussies that may be above and beyond ...
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

I suspect the main reason, Indonasia and China are hanging out together, and Indonesia with China is eyeing Australia, Papua New Guinea , Solomon islands etc, with vast mineral and land resources. This is the reason for the change in attitude.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

vimal wrote:[
Ja Simran ja, jee le apni zindagi. We set you free as independent people with their capital in Lahore and kingdom in Afghanistan. Take you sorry tashrif to your Kingdom.
He is right in a way, in Sikh religion if meat is to be eaten it has to be Jatka meat, therefore in Historical Sikh areas of Lahore, Nankana Sahib, Toba Tek Singh, Sialkot, Peshawar- people eating meat other than Jatka meat must relinquish the land for Sikhs
Cyrano
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

chetak wrote:something doesn't seem to sit right and this palpably spurious media blitz is possibly indicative of some big ask by the aussies that may be above and beyond ...
Agree, even Biden's recent comments relayed by the press as "effusive praise for Modi" sounds strange and suspect. If they respect him so much, then their actions should be very different from what they currently are.

I don't know if there is a specific sinister idea behind this, but at the very least its feels like the white man's "recognising and honouring the native" for his own ends. Bit NaMo is no dupe. He will sweetly but ruthlessly encash what he can irrespective of the tide.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Amusing to see so much cognitive dissonance here....
May be not everyone in west subscribe to Rana Ayyub type narratives that that Indian Democracy under RSS/Modi is a disaster...
May be all that "effusive praise" is not that 'sinister'...May be as Modi or our EAM repeatedly said, there is every reason to be optimistic...

Anyway let me just put some pictures for the record..

The iconic Sydney Harbour Bridge illuminated itself with the vibrant hues of India's national flag. Illumination comes even as Indian PM Modi's visit is underway:
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Opera house in tricolour!
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Historic press conference - "friends"
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Indian, Australia PMs hold talks. Also present EAM Jaishankar, NSA Ajit Doval, Indian envoy to Australia
Vohra Manpreet, Australian envoy to India barryofarrell

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CEO's during business roundtable:
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And ... 20,000+ welcoming ...
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Issued discussed between PM Modi, PM Albanese:
-Quad
-Maritime & territorial issues in Indo Pacific
-Russia Ukriane conflict
-India, Australia engagement in Pacific
-India, Aus cooperation in countries of Global South
-Reforms of UNSC
Image
Image

(/sigh/ I know it is thankless task to post some real news, among all the silly narratives /sigh/)
Last edited by Amber G. on 24 May 2023 21:05, edited 1 time in total.
chetak
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Amber ji,

No cognitive dissonance here

Been watching the racist aussies for more than 30 years now

The diaspora bit everyone gets, but something is not kosher about the rest of the media spectacle

They badly need something from Modi, and biden is also a part of this pappi jhappi love fest
Amber G.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

chetak wrote:Amber ji,

No cognitive dissonance here

Been watching the racist aussies for more than 30 years now

The diaspora bit everyone gets, but something is not kosher about the rest of the media spectacle

They badly need something from Modi, and biden is also a part of this pappi jhappi love fest
Chetakji - FWIW: I too am a little familiar with Aussies. Have been there several times in last 3-4 decades - mostly scientific conferences, as a visiting faculty, etc.

Australia is also home of people like Nobel Laureate Dr. Brian Paul Schmidt (An American who made home in Australia) or Renowned Field medalist (Nobel in math) Akshay Venkatesh (from Delhi, educated in India/US/Australia - only field medalist in Australia - one of two from India). Both of these guys had good talk with Modi, and *very* much interested in working for education in India. (*please do see my above post ... I also put a post about Prof Venkatesh/Modi visit in brf).

I do have trust in GoI, (and Australia Govt) - *much* more than types of Rana Ayuub's and frankly some of the analysts here.
chetak
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

Amber G. wrote:
chetak wrote:Amber ji,

No cognitive dissonance here

Been watching the racist aussies for more than 30 years now

The diaspora bit everyone gets, but something is not kosher about the rest of the media spectacle

They badly need something from Modi, and biden is also a part of this pappi jhappi love fest
Chetakji - FWIW: I too am a little familiar with Aussies. Have been there several times in last 3-4 decades - mostly scientific conferences, as a visiting faculty, etc.

Australia is also home of people like Nobel Laureate Dr. Brian Paul Schmidt (An American who made home in Australia) or Renowned Field medalist (Nobel in math) Akshay Venkatesh (from Delhi, educated in India/US/Australia - only field medalist in Australia - one of two from India). Both of these guys had good talk with Modi, and *very* much interested in working for education in India. (*please do see my above post ... I also put a post about Prof Venkatesh/Modi visit in brf).

I do have trust in GoI, (and Australia Govt) - *much* more than types of Rana Ayuub's and frankly some of the analysts here.

Amber ji,

with reference to the aussies, our perspectives are truly different, much like chalk and cheese...

you see what they probably want you to see, or what they are keen to showcase, and accordingly you tick the relevant boxes

and we are more keen to see what they don't want to show us, and that usually means that we are unable to tick a great many of the boxes that concern us, bilaterally, and geopolitically (what with the QUAD, FTA and all).

a great many erstwhile and many like minded colleagues are settled there and friends often travel back and forth, and the WA groups are quite lively because they constantly trawl for raw data, collate, process, and correlate nuggets of information, mostly from professional gatherings and seminars, both in India and in AUS

We are both from very different worlds...

So, no cognitive dissonance here



BTW, any gora or even brown gora who says:
Both of these guys had good talk with Modi, and *very* much interested in working for education in India.
The motives are never altruistic but driven by filthy lucre, specifically Indian lucre in the form of increased admissions and full fee collection

It probably helps in their quests for tenure or if already tenured, then increased "research" grants

there are very few like Prof Paulraj from Stanford University, (IEEE Alexander Graham Bell Medal in 2011, Marconi Prize and Fellowship in 2014, and Padma Bhushan award by the Indian Government in 2010, among many tens of other distinguished awards and honors) who return to India multiple times every year to help the govt formulate plans and policy.

one short visit to any of the education "melas" held in Indian cities by universities from the uk, canada, or aus will give you a fair idea of the hard sell these guys are capable of. Their motive is always the profit, and never the education that they allegedly seek to impart

Like the good bard says: 'He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon'

but we seem to be too busy with naïve and unilaterally gullible interpretations of “Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam” and “Sarve bhavantu sukhinah sarve santu niramaya"
Last edited by chetak on 25 May 2023 10:51, edited 1 time in total.
g.sarkar
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/austr ... odi-visit/
Australia needs to be clear-eyed about India relationship after Modi visit
Baani Grewal, 25 May 2023

An Australian official once told me that Australians struggle to think beyond the American-led Anglosphere and alliance.
There might have been some hyperbole in that remark. But certainly the struggle we have in properly understanding our burgeoning relationship with India—and India as a country—suggests that official was on to something.
Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Sydney this week demonstrates that Australia and India are committed to one another, despite history working against us.
From the 1960s until 2014, the two countries had at best sporadic engagement.
It’s significant that Modi continued with the visit despite the cancellation of the Sydney Quad summit after US President Joe Biden was unable to travel, which then led to Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida also pulling out.
It should not be forgotten that Modi’s trusted foreign minister, S. Jaishankar, has been to Australia three times in the past year.
This demonstrates the importance that India places on Australia—in terms of the political relationship, regional strategic alignment and the large diaspora of citizens and residents with Indian heritage. The decades in which the US has been our dominant strategic partner have shaped Australia to the point that we tend to see everything through that prism.
That helps to explain the predictable reactions we have seen to Modi’s visit: in particular, looking for inconsistencies between the two countries in terms of values, with critics pointing to human rights issues and arguing that New Delhi won’t provide military support if Beijing and Washington are heading towards a conflict, say over Taiwan.
The fact that both Australia and India are democracies is a very solid foundation for a good strategic relationship. But it should not be turned into more than that. India has its own interests, as does Australia. India, especially through the diplomacy of its foreign minister, is nothing less than open about that. India is never going to be an ally in the way the US is—but it doesn’t need to be in order to be a vital partner.
It’s not a mistake to point out that Australia and India share some values but not others. It is a mistake, however, to act like we need our partners to be identical or isolate ourselves. The test is not whether a partner is a democracy without flaws.
Rather, the test for our partnership is our commitment to a common set of strategic interests in the Indo-Pacific, to be addressed by a dual-track approach, involving offering our region viable, practical options for security and prosperity while constraining the most malicious activities of Beijing across territorial encroachment, technological oppression and foreign influence.
‘We have very different histories, of course,’ Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said this week when asked about India’s relationship with Russia. ‘India has been a leader of the Non-Aligned Movement for such a long period of time. But India is a great supporter of peace and security and stability in our region.’
.....
Gautam
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by sanman »

Amber G.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

chetak wrote:
Amber G. wrote:
Chetakji - FWIW: I too am a little familiar with Aussies. Have been there several times in last 3-4 decades - mostly scientific conferences, as a visiting faculty, etc.
<snip>

I do have trust in GoI, (and Australia Govt) - *much* more than types of Rana Ayuub's and frankly some of the analysts here.

Amber ji,

with reference to the aussies, our perspectives are truly different, much like chalk and cheese.
..
Of course, our perspective are quite different.
This is why I found quite amusing and talked about cognitive dissonance.
.

You see, on one hand you insist:
The aussies are notoriously racist.. .
And you known them for 30 years...and ..
a great many erstwhile and many like minded colleagues are settled there and friends often travel back and forth, and the WA groups are quite lively because they constantly trawl for raw data, collate, process, and correlate nuggets of information, mostly from professional gatherings and seminars, both in India and in AUS..
Did you ever think, why your friends/colleagues choose to travel to and even settled in Australia if that place was so horrible and racist.

Cognitive dissonance?

Meanwhile here is something more for Rana Ayyub types too, to ponder how the destroyer of democracy Modi is facilitated and honored ....
Australia PM Albanese confirms that Australian govt supported & paid for Sydney Opera House lighting up in honor of Indian PM Narendra Modi. (Unlike even illumination for King Charles III's coronation was not supported to save taxpayers money.

Image
Image
As said, our perspective is quite different ...I just happen to think PM Modi's visit to Australia and Australia welcome is what it is. Something good.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Amber G,
The way AUS govt and it's people treat Indian immigrants and the way AUS as a state deals with India on a bilateral/multilateral plane are two very different things.

Same goes for the US, Canada. These countries like what indians contribute to their economies and society. And rightly so, because we are a free supply of bright youth who cost nothing to the host country, education paid for by India and higher education paid by the people themselves mostly, Indian students studying abroad is some 80 Billion dollars industry, nearly catching up with remittances of about 90-100 Billion.

Indian professional migrants are highly skilled, highly productive, law abiding, pay taxes, don't cause trouble and don't ask for much from host countries.

Given their own demographics and social trends Indians are a heaven send, a great deal with no downside for many developed countries.

So in my view, they treating indians well is deserved and to be expected. There will be a few racist pigs here and there but that doesn't change the overall picture.

But dealings with India on geopolitical level is a different matter and a whole bunch of considerations and historical issues are involved as you are well aware.
Amber G.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Cyrano wrote:Amber G,
The way AUS govt and it's people treat Indian immigrants and the way AUS as a state deals with India on a bilateral/multilateral plane are two very different things.

Same goes for the US, Canada. These countries like what indians contribute to their economies and society. ..<Snip..
The AUS/India govt to govt relationship is not static.. it has CHANGED tremendously.
Remember Modi's 2014 visit to Australia was *after* almot 30 years from the last PM visit!!
Or as recently as post 1998 nuclear test .. Australia was as anti-India as some of the worst countries. Most scientists like me (or from India) did NOT travel to Australia. Now many of us (including *very* prominent scientists from both countries *choose* to visit and stay at each other institute)..Now I have travelled (and enjoyed) to Australia and enjoyed my stay.

The relationship is *much* different - glass is x% full (100-x)% empty but to insist it is *bad* like BRF narrative goes is absolute nonsense.

The same goes for US, Canada wrt to India..GoI and US relations .. evident the smoothness I find when my friends/family - US citizens travel to India or Indian citizens citizen travel to US - (I remember post 1998 - I had trouble hosting even some well respected people here in US. Now the interaction between these two people is *much* better*)

Anyway -- among all the silly things, I posted some hard news, photos here in Brf. FWIW...
Important thing for me, is perspective from India's PM, EAM, (and Australia's counter parts)...And it is silly to think that all that was just some photo ops. /sigh/
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

We have the same observations, the view and attitude of developed countries on India has definitely changed over the past 3 decades, it started with the emergence of India as an IT powerhouse in the 90s and 2000s, and many other successes added to that. Since 2014, our reach and influence have been growing exponentially. That has made them include India in a more realistic way into their geopolitical calculations. Fine.

But these are the same Anglosaxon ex-colonialist countries (US & AUS have decimated the natives to such an extent that colonisation is irrelevant) that have implemented and defended a global system (post WW2 imperialism if you wish) quite ruthlessly for their benefit. These leopards cannot change their spots. So as a country and people that has survived 2 major waves of colonisation ME & European, we Indians have to be watchful and we engage in tango with them, which we must. No one is today an enemy, but no one is a genuine friend either.

If you are not able to see this, and think that happy visits and seminars are all there is to relations between countries and global power dynamics, well you are a blessed soul.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by KL Dubey »

Cyrano wrote:But these are the same Anglosaxon ex-colonialist countries (US & AUS have decimated the natives to such an extent that colonisation is irrelevant) that have implemented and defended a global system (post WW2 imperialism if you wish) quite ruthlessly for their benefit. These leopards cannot change their spots.
Yes. Scientific bonhomie and cooperation is one thing, and broader strategic matters are entirely another. Australia today is doing nothing much different from what the convicts were doing in the 1800s - extracting the natural resources and shipping them out. Their tech service industry mainly supports this activity. Main Indian interests in Australia:

- supplement our natural resources requirements
- export goods and displace the chinese as much as possible
- dominate the tech service industry
- use these fellows as military "canaries" to guard against any chinese misadventures in the southern IOR

Other than that, there is nothing much else of strategic value in Australia. We are better off cultivating deeper ties with Indonesia and the Pacific ocean states.
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Re: India-Australia News and Discussion

Post by Amber G. »

Glass x% full or (100-x%) type narratives are interesting.. "These leopards cannot change their spots." or insist that nothing is going to change.. or do as GoI is doing.. thinking positive. Both in person to person *as well as* govt to govt change, IMO, is quite remarkable. Person to person relationship does not happen in vacuum it often goes with govt to govt relationships .

Meanwhile even some diehards are amazed to see the change ..
Listen to:
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