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Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

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Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby shiv » 25 Apr 2008 06:16

I will shortly transfer the old locked thread to the trashcan

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Postby vsudhir » 25 Apr 2008 07:05

Rye,

It is not like that India-Nepal Friendship treaty did any good when it came to Nepal allowing the plane to get hijacked to Afghanisthan. A Pakistani diplomat walked right past security check and handed the weapons to doctor and burger. Or the Govt. of Nepal allowing drug traffickers and counterfeiters (that counterfeited 500 Rs notes) to operate on Nepali territory. They operated right under the nose of the Koirala/Gyanendra regime with their consent.


Right.

And it does India no good to permit a porki embassy in Delhi when we know it is a vicious den of ISI handlers, RDX smugglers, terror masterminders, mafia operatives etc.

Your point being what exactly?

Would ISI access, fake notes, drug traffiking etc magically cease with the the review of all Indo-Nepal treaties? The access, leverage and ppl-to-ppl relationships India and Nepal share will be adversely impacted for sure. But why drag in porki activity here?

Am sure I'm missing something. Revoking the treaties, which also provide for IA Gurkha recruitment, banning Bollywood etc by the Maoists is somehow good/not bad for India and Indo-Nepal ties? Well, maybe it is. I can't see how, though. If you know something that makes uncommon sense, pls to share.

TIA. JMTPs etc.

/Have a nice day.

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Postby satya » 25 Apr 2008 17:39

Am sure I'm missing something. Revoking the treaties, which also provide for IA Gurkha recruitment, banning Bollywood etc by the Maoists is somehow good/not bad for India and Indo-Nepal ties? Well, maybe it is. I can't see how, though. If you know something that makes uncommon sense, pls to share.


Indo-Nepal Treaty has been cursed for everything ranging from buffalo's low milk output to next door's son not getting passed in exams.

By offering to review the treaty , GoI is allowing new govt. in Nepal enough space to manevour and take care of India's security concern.
Just a single announcement on review will keep this situation hanging for another year or so ( going by chai -biscuit sessions of our babu log) and it gives enough time for India to see if action has been taken on ground for India's security concerns or not.

JMTs .

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Postby Rye » 25 Apr 2008 22:48

column on Nepal in the Indian Express

http://www.indianexpress.com/printerFri ... 99851.html

article by Mr. Hormis Tharakan

One important lesson for India from all this is that we need to revisit the tactics and strategies that we have been following for combating Maoism in India. We need to reach out to the Maoists, even as we combat them on the ground. For this we need to rely on persons who have access to Maoists, people in whom they have trust. We must remember that the Maoists do not trust even their colleagues from the leftist parties. We therefore need to approach people on the periphery of the movement, who may include intellectuals, academics, social activists and sympathisers. Strictly speaking, it is possible to book such people under the provisions of the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act or such other anti-terrorist legislation available in some of the states facing serious Naxalite threat. We need to introspect whether this is the right approach.

It seems to me that the wheel has turned full circle since King Gyanendra usurped power on February 1, 2005. And the ability of the Indian security establishment to think out of the box at a crucial point in time in Nepal’s history has made a huge contribution to the (by and large) peaceful transition to inclusive, multi-party democracy in Nepal.



vsudhir, satya has already said the needful....treaties of this sort are mostly theaterical it seems to me.

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Postby Gerard » 26 Apr 2008 04:24


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Postby Karan Dixit » 26 Apr 2008 08:50



I have always considered Nepalese our brothers and sisters. To me, they are not foreigners. So, there is no disgrace in Nepalese joining Indian army. However, their service to British army is somewhat disgraceful.

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Postby Kalantak » 26 Apr 2008 13:09


AFAIK It has been many years now that Indian army has stopped recruiting from nepalese gurkhas. The Gurkhas currently serving in Indian army are Indian citizens from areas around Darjeeling in West Bengal were there is a large native population of Gurkhas.

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Postby Apu » 26 Apr 2008 13:27

Chinese rail link to Nepal via Tibet in 5 years

TOI

KATHMANDU: China will extend its railway link from Tibet to Nepal's border in five years, Nepali officials said on Saturday, bringing the traditionally friendly nations closer and boosting trade and tourism.

The rail link with China could help Nepal reduce its heavy dependence on its giant southern neighbour India for everything from oil to motor parts and medicines.

Ai Ping, director general of China's international department, met Nepali Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala on Friday and told him that the rail link would bolster their diplomatic and trade ties, officials said.

"They discussed the benefits of the project," Basanta Gautam, special secretary in Koirala's office, said. "The railway link should be complete in five years."

China and Nepal share a more than 1,400 km border. The planned railway project would link Tibetan capital Lhasa with Khasa, a border town near China-Nepal border.

"It will be an extension of the famous railway link between China and Tibet," Gautam said. The 1,142-km rail link between China and Tibet opened in July 2006.

The world's highest, it passes through spectacular icy peaks on the Tibetan highlands, touching altitudes of 5,000 metres (16,400 feet).


Worrying times no doubt... with such a rail link, our chini 'bhais' will open up more strike options should they wish to 'teach us a lesson' :evil: :roll:

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Postby Neshant » 27 Apr 2008 00:25

indeed.

i'm waiting for the time (coming soon) when the maoists will do a taliban on the population and demand an end to all Bollywood movies and music.

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Postby Bade » 27 Apr 2008 02:57

There is a need to integrate Nepal economically to India with urgency to keep the north-eastern borders unchanged. China is slowly revealing their hidden hands. US is just playing along with its own games vis a vis India. The more India feels threatened by China, the more likely it is that India will ally itself with the US policies.

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Postby Sanjay M » 27 Apr 2008 03:43

There is a need to bifurcate Nepal. Some Nepalese are pro-India, and some are anti-India and pose a grave threat to us.

The anti-Indian ones have to be held accountable for their anti-Indian activities.

I've always been suspicious of how these "human waves" were able to overcome army outposts and "steal arms and ammunition" as they claim. To me, this is just a cover for China pumping in arms and ammunition to the Maoists, just like they did to Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.

In which case, we have to get these guys before they get us. The Madhesis are the best place to start. We should arm them, and have them cleanse out any opposing factions within their turf, then expand it from there.

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Postby G Subramaniam » 27 Apr 2008 03:47

Sanjay M wrote:There is a need to bifurcate Nepal. Some Nepalese are pro-India, and some are anti-India and pose a grave threat to us.

The anti-Indian ones have to be held accountable for their anti-Indian activities.

I've always been suspicious of how these "human waves" were able to overcome army outposts and "steal arms and ammunition" as they claim. To me, this is just a cover for China pumping in arms and ammunition to the Maoists, just like they did to Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.

In which case, we have to get these guys before they get us. The Madhesis are the best place to start. We should arm them, and have them cleanse out any opposing factions within their turf, then expand it from there.


The naxal human waves do the same thing in remote police posts in India

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Postby Sanjay M » 27 Apr 2008 04:11

G Subramaniam wrote:The naxal human waves do the same thing in remote police posts in India


And I happen to think that these people are also being armed, trained and supplied by outsiders. If they can put up stiff resistance to the army, then it shows they're no mere malcontents, but a foreign-organized and supported force.

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Postby satya » 27 Apr 2008 15:22

[url=http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers27/paper2683.html]VALID REASONS FOR A MILITARY TAKE-OVER IN NEPAL -Sh. B Raman
[/url]

Are we missing something ? Is it just a warning shot to Prachanda or in real situation may turn out bad ?

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Postby Kalantak » 27 Apr 2008 16:33

satya wrote:VALID REASONS FOR A MILITARY TAKE-OVER IN NEPAL -Sh. B Raman
Are we missing something ? Is it just a warning shot to Prachanda or in real situation may turn out bad ?


Few days back RNA had publicly opposed prachanda's plan of merging the RNA with the maoist guerillas.

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Postby Kalantak » 27 Apr 2008 17:02

Nepal Maoists want comrades released from Bihar jails
Apr 27 2008
Patna : Two senior Nepalese Maoist leaders have sought the release of dozens of their comrades lodged in Bihar's jails and met Chief Minister Nitish Kumar in this regard.

'We sought an early release of dozens of Nepalese Maoists lodged in Bihar's jails during our meeting with Nitish Kumar,' Yami, minister for physical planning and works in the outgoing interim government, told IANS here Sunday.

Yami is the first senior Maoist leader from Nepal to visit India after the former guerrillas emerged victorious in the April 10 constituent assembly polls.


Nepal Maoists need to convince opposition for power
Apr 27 2008
The Maoists still command a rebel army, have refused to renounce violence and speak of a "people revolt" if they are stopped from taking power, posturing that has unnerved opposition parties about their commitment to democratic ideals.

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Postby gogna » 28 Apr 2008 00:05

Hindu monarchy's demise imminent

KATHMANDU: Nepal's Maoists have pledged that the world's last Hindu monarchy will be abolished swiftly after final results from landmark polls gave the ultra-leftist party a resounding victory.

"The first meeting of the constituent assembly will definitely end the monarchy and there will not be any compromise," Maoist leader Prachanda said yesterday.

Nepal's former Maoist rebels emerged triumphant as the largest party in the country's new parliament this week, signalling they would work with the traditional political parties which they routed.

The Communist Party of Nepal (Maoists) will win just under 220 seats in the 601-member assembly, taking half the 240 constituencies and a third of the 335 seats allocated under proportional representation.

The cabinet will nominate a further 26 members of the assembly, which will write a new constitution and end the 240-year-old monarchy. The ruling Nepali Congress party and mainstream communist parties will each hold 100 seats.

Maoist chairman, Pushpa Kamal Dahal, a charismatic former guerrilla known as Prachanda, is likely to become prime minister.

Although the Maoists will be dominant, they cannot rule alone, and talks have begun with the established parties.

The leadership has also met the country's business community to assuage fears that they would embark on a program of nationalisation.

The Maoists also appear to be quietly shelving their election pledge to abolish Gurkha recruitment in the British and Indian armies.

There are 3500 Gurkha soldiers in the British Army, which recruits 250 men a year from villages in Nepal.

"[It] was in the manifesto but the immediate concern is forming a government," said Maoist spokesman Dinanath Sharma.

Most pressing is the ending of the monarchy and integrating 25,000 People's Liberation Army troops into Nepal's armed forces.

The party is also positioning itself as a champion of social justice, with its student wing taking to the streets to demand free education until the age of 15.

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Postby Sanjay M » 28 Apr 2008 00:53

Paper No 2683

27-April--2008

VALID REASONS FOR A MILITARY TAKE-OVER IN NEPAL
By B.Raman

"Ultimately, we will have to fight with the Indian army. That is the situation. Therefore, we have to take into account the Indian army. When the Indian army comes in with thousands and thousands of soldiers, it will be a very big thing. But we are not afraid of the Indian Army because, in one way, it will be a very good thing. They will give us lots of guns. And lots of people will fight them. This will be a national war. And it will be a very big thing. They will have many difficulties intervening. It will not be so easy for them. But if they stupidly dare...they will dare, they will be compelled. They will do that stupidity. We have to prepare for that. And for that reason we are saying we will also need a particular international situation. And for us this has to do mainly with India, Indian expansionism. When there is an unstable situation in India and a strong mass base there in support of People's War in Nepal and there are contradictions within the Indian ruling class-at that point we can seize, we can establish and declare that we have base areas, that we have a government." ----Prachanda, the Nepalese Maoist leader in an interview to a Latin American journalist. Please see my article titled "THE MAOISTS OF NEPAL: Three perspectives" dated July 13,2001, at http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers3/paper277.html

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Postby rsingh » 28 Apr 2008 01:08

As I posted before..............there is strong case for Nepalese Army to intervene. I can see it coming. And it is going to be brutal.

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Postby Gerard » 28 Apr 2008 01:17


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Postby Gerard » 28 Apr 2008 01:22


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Postby nkumar » 28 Apr 2008 01:26

BC's take in India Today
Revolution by intimidation

The new situation signals three likely developments. First, Nepal’s rocky and troubled path to democracy since 1990 is unlikely to end, with the polls marking only the newest chapter in a blemished experiment.

Second, India’s relationship with Nepal is set to become more complicated, with little progress likely on addressing Indian security concerns or harnessing hydropower reserves for mutual benefit. And third, the Maoists’ hard part comes now on the twin issues of governance and Constitution framing.

Those who sought to bring about a revolution by chipping away at state institutions are being called upon to reverse state atrophy. It won’t be easy for them to embrace what the situation demands — consensus building. If anything, they are likely to make India a convenient scapegoat for their failures in office.

Despite its proverbial aversion to hard decisions, India is left with no soft options. An openborder policy is sustainable only if India moves its security perimeter to the Nepalese frontier with Tibet.The onus must be placed on the Maoists to show through actions that the government they lead deserves sustained Indian aid, or else these revolutionaries will take Indian aid and also damn India.

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Postby Sanjay M » 28 Apr 2008 01:29

I disagree with the benefit of a military takeover in Nepal, as this would only enable the commies to rally the public to their side.

What's needed is an ethnic force, a la Taliban, with their own grassroots zeal and recruitment pool. The Madhesi groups would do just fine.

They would then engage in an escalating series of attacks against the Maoists, to defeat and deplete their forces.

I don't see how a military takeover by the RNA would enable it to defeat the Maoists. They weren't able to defeat them before, when Gyanendra was in power.

Let the RNA hold back, and let proxies join the fight, to fight the Maoists in a no-holds-barred way. Everyone has a breaking point and a pain threshold that will force them to collapse. Having RNA fight would only force them to pull their punches and fight with one arm tied behind the back. They would also quickly be attacked by human rights activists, which is the Leftist style. Instead, an ethnic proxy force should be used, who can resort to excruciatingly brutal tactics including ethnic cleansing, that will make the Maoists howl in pain and also think twice before engaging in their macho rhetoric and militant bravado.


Oh, and one more thing: forget mass graves -- mass cremations are always the better option, and leave less evidence. They are also ecologically friendly, and help the environment.

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Postby Karan Dixit » 28 Apr 2008 04:43

If military take over is the only resort left to ensure the well being of our Nepali brothers and sisters then that is what I support. I even support the deployment of Indian troops to support the Nepali Army.

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Postby Sanjay M » 28 Apr 2008 05:11

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. You'll notice that Pak has never launched any overt invasion of Afghanistan. They've always used local ethnic militias. But then we Indians have never really excelled at warfare or conquest. No wonder we boast of our pacifism. That's usually what those who failed at war have done.

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Postby Karan Dixit » 28 Apr 2008 05:24

Pakistan is not a good model to emulate as far as the military planning is concerned. There is a big difference between how Pakistanese see Afghans and how we see Nepalis. Nepalis are our brothers and sisters. Our intention is not to destabilize Nepal but to help Nepal stabilize. To do this, we have to protect them from wolves of the world. This can only be done through working with Nepali Army. If Nepali Army asks for Indian help, we should immediately provide necessary troops without any hesitation.

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UPA will oppose coup

Postby G Subramaniam » 28 Apr 2008 05:59

The NDA would have approved coup]

UPA will oppose coup since the maoists are pets of EJs and commies

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Postby vsudhir » 28 Apr 2008 07:02

Jairam Ramesh woos Nepal with offer of a new trade pact

Something big is brewing here.... seems like step 1 to a common currency area....maybe. Early days yet bit the full stroke will reveal itself when the time is right.[/url]

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Postby Karan Dixit » 28 Apr 2008 07:17

Meanwhile, Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar while inaugurating the seminar, asked Nepal to take a cue from Bhutan and harness water resources with India so that the Nepalese economy is strengthened manifold by sale of surplus hydel power.

http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-2 ... 191750.htm

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Re: UPA will oppose coup

Postby Sanjay M » 28 Apr 2008 09:19

G Subramaniam wrote:The NDA would have approved coup]

UPA will oppose coup since the maoists are pets of EJs and commies


Then politicians in states bordering Nepal, which would be the first to be destabilized by Maoist activity, should vociferously raise the issue of UPA inaction with their voters. Because those voters have a lot to lose if the places where they live become destabilized.

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Re: UPA will oppose coup

Postby G Subramaniam » 28 Apr 2008 10:27

Sanjay M wrote:
G Subramaniam wrote:The NDA would have approved coup]

UPA will oppose coup since the maoists are pets of EJs and commies


Then politicians in states bordering Nepal, which would be the first to be destabilized by Maoist activity, should vociferously raise the issue of UPA inaction with their voters. Because those voters have a lot to lose if the places where they live become destabilized.


Not true, Lalu used to patronise naxal factions led by yadavs
In Andhra 2004 elections, congress had a deal with naxals

Are hindus a people who ever worry about national security
The congress and commies imported 10 mil BD illegals
and people still vote for them

The congress and commies did not hang afzal and yet people still vote for them

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Postby satya » 28 Apr 2008 16:24


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Postby Malay » 30 Apr 2008 21:21

Could some one here give a rundown on the Indo-Nepal friendship treaty?
What does it have that makes it unfair for the Nepalese? And would renegotiating it be good or bad? What would be the result? Is it in our interests?

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Postby Rye » 30 Apr 2008 21:43

Sanjay M. wrote:
There is a need to bifurcate Nepal. Some Nepalese are pro-India, and some are anti-India and pose a grave threat to us.


This is exactly the wrong thing to do -- allowing outside powers to enter Nepal will be facilitated by such a scheme.

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Postby Paul » 01 May 2008 11:15

[quote]Nepal under Maoists
How India can help it in economic growth
by G. Parthasarathy

Pushpa Kamal Dahal aka Prachanda is an enigma to many Indians. Educated in elite universities in Chandigarh and New Delhi, he now seeks to portray himself as a moderate, determined to take Nepal forward as a democratic and federal republic. He professes to be realistic about relations with India and claims that he wants equally good relations with both India and China. Key thing is to make sure he stays in the elctoral arena and by the next election he will be whimpering like the Hurriyat/PDP. Only recourse left for him will be turn into a nationalist.

While he speaks of an empathy with the ideological moorings of Indian Maoists, he asserts that violence cannot resolve political issues. This comes from a person who led a bloody armed struggle for a decade between 1996 and 2006, in which 13000 people are reported to have perished. This was a period when there was no dearth of evidence about Prachanda’s links with the Maoists in India.

While there are differences of opinion about how New Delhi should respond to the challenge of a Maoist-led government in Kathmandu, there can be no doubt that like in Pakistan, our diplomatic and intelligence establishments have been horribly wrong in their assessments of emerging political development. Questions are in order about whether cronyism and parochialism should prevail over experience and expertise in postings of senior diplomats to important neighbouring countries.

Those not given to sentimentalism recognise that across Nepal there is almost a pathological distrust of India. Successive monarchs have not hesitated to play the anti-India card and even political parties like the Nepali Congress, not to speak of the mainstream CPN (UML), have found Indian bashing and attempting to play the so-called “China Cardâ€

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Postby G Subramaniam » 01 May 2008 18:05

Malay wrote:Could some one here give a rundown on the Indo-Nepal friendship treaty?
What does it have that makes it unfair for the Nepalese? And would renegotiating it be good or bad? What would be the result? Is it in our interests?


The Indo-Nepal treaty has an economic angle - pro nepal
and a security angle - pro-india

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Garver on Nepali dealings with china

Postby G Subramaniam » 01 May 2008 18:08

Since 1960, the nepalese monarchy and nepalese army have been playing a deep pro-china game
In 1965, a chinese army battalion was let into nepal to sieze a tibetan refugee camp and deport the tibetans back to certain death

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 03 May 2008 00:59

[quote]There is still hope for democracy in Nepal
Final results puncture Maoist hype; Majority reject them
By Arabinda Ghose

Mr. Pushpa Kamal Dahal alias Prachanda, who has been declaring himself the future Prime Minister of Nepal on the basis of the emergence of his party as the largest single one among the 240 seats of the Constituent Assembly, for which elections were held on April 10, has found to his horror that the results of the votes cast in favour of his party under the Proportional Representation (PR) system have dashed all hopes of his leading the nation.

His party, the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoists) has ended up with just 120 seats (actually 119 as Prachanda has been elected from two constituencies) out of 240 under the First Past the Post (FPTP) system, two short of an absolute majority. But the results of the elections under the Proportional Representation (PR) system must have given him the shock of his life—he is set to be allotted only 100 or 101 seats out of 335 in proportion to the percentage of votes polled. The PR system will give huge number of seats to the Nepali Congress, the Communist Party of Nepal (Unified Marxist-Leninist) and the three “Madheshiâ€

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Postby sum » 03 May 2008 09:23

Ex-envoy on the Indo-Nepal treaty
[quote]The Maoist demand for “scrappingâ€

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Postby Paul » 03 May 2008 18:24

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080503/j ... 219398.jsp

[quote]


Nepal to Delhi: junk sentiment and special ties
SANKARSHAN THAKUR

Gajurel at the Patna conference. (Reuters)
New Delhi, May 2: Nepal’s newly empowered Maoists are pushing for a qualitative change in relations with India that would put ties on a more pragmatic keel.

The polite podium talk at the foreign office-sponsored conference on bilateral relations in Patna last week barely masked a new hard-knuckled Maoist approach that seeks to eschew any “special relationshipâ€


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