Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 21 May 2020 18:15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aULL5PXS0oA



Why Is Nepal Belligerent Over Kalapani? A Guide To The Brewing Border Row With India




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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 21 May 2020 18:45

ik gujral has wantonly left behind some serious and self created boundary issues because of his unrealistic, and kooky pappi jhappi ideas about India and her proximate foreign relations.

such morons should never ever be allowed into positions of power ever again.

no wonder that neighbors treat us like a cow which can be milked for free by any predatory adjoining scroungers looking for a free lunch



Nepal releases new political map claiming Indian territories as its own as PM KP Oli launches an offensive against India


A fresh political map which showed areas of Limpiyadhura, Lipulekh and Kalapani as parts of Nepal was approved by the Nepal cabinet on Monday this week

20 May, 2020


As the diplomatic ties between India and Nepal deteriorate, the Prime Minister of Nepal, KP Oli launched an offensive against India, pinning the blame of the spread of coronavirus in Nepal on India and claiming Indian virus to be “more virulent” than the coronavirus that ravaged Italy and China.

While addressing the parliament, Oli said, “Those who are sneaking in from India through illegal channels are spreading the virus in the country and some local representatives and party leaders are responsible for bringing in people from India without proper testing.”

He further added, ‘It has become difficult now to stem the spread of the coronavirus due to the flow of people from outside. Indian virus seems to be more lethal than the Chinese and the Italian.”


Releases new map laying claims on certain Indian territories

In the same speech, KP Oli also made irredentist claims against India by asserting that Nepal would “bring back at any cost” the Indian territories of Kalapani-Limpiyadhura-Lipulekh area.

A fresh political map which showed areas of Limpiyadhura, Lipulekh and Kalapani as parts of Nepal was approved by the Nepal cabinet on Monday this week. It is notable to mention that this is perhaps the first time that the Himalayan nation which is contiguous with India has taken such a confrontational stand on the issue. Many attribute Nepal’s newfound bellicosity against India to China who is rapidly expanding its footprint in Kathmandu.

It is also worth noting that Nepal’s belligerence against India has come 10 days after the Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh inaugurated a link road on the Kailash Mansarovar route in Pithoragarh in Uttarakhand, leading to Lipulekh.

The foreign ministry of Nepal had issued a press release voicing their protest against the move, claiming the link road passed through Nepali territory. However, India rejected the claims, saying “the link road lies completely within the territory of India”.

India claims that the link road follows the pre-existing road that was used by the pilgrims to visit Kailash Mansarovar. “Under the recent project, the same road has been made more robust for the ease and convenience of the pilgrims,” an official said.

But Nepal’s foreign minister was not placated by India’s response and a day later he summoned the Indian ambassador Vinay Kwatra and issued a diplomatic note on the road inaugurated.

Kwatra reiterated India’s stance on the matter, saying “India is committed to settling outstanding border disputes through diplomatic dialogue and in the spirit of our close and friendly bilateral ties with Nepal”.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 27 May 2020 01:32

from a nepalese newspaper


Nepal asks India to resume export of tea and palm oil in Indian market


May 25, 2020
By: Republica


Nepal asks India to resume export of tea and palm oil in Indian market

KATHMANDU, May 25: Nepal government has asked Indian government to allow Nepali traders to export tea and refined palm oil in the Indian market.

According to a top source at the Ministry of Commerce and Supplies, the ministry wrote two separate letters to related Indian government agencies through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs last week asking to allow Nepali traders to export tea and refined palm oil in the Indian market. Refined palm oil and tea are two top items from Nepal to be exported to India.

The development comes amid reports that India stopped importing refined palm oil and tea from Nepal.

India stopped importing refined palm oil and tea even before Nepal's objection to the road inauguration by Indian government through Lipu Lekh Pass, a Nepali territory, on May 6.

"But, in recent days, the southern neighbor has completely stopped importing palm oil and tea from Nepal," an official at the MoCS said. The official said that the Indian government has not responded to Nepal's call to resume import of palm oil and tea in Indian market yet.

India has been, from time to time, creating hassles on the import of those products from which Nepal has been making good export earnings. Just two weeks ago, India suspended the import of palm oil from Nepal, under the pretext of checking imports to protect the Indian industries.

Purna Kumar Karki, president of Jhapa Tea Entrepreneurs Association, said he has been informed about the import suspension imposed by India. According to him, the Indian authorities impose non-tariff barriers on Nepali products from time to time for no reason.

Karki said Nepal has been exporting both CTC and orthodox tea in significant volumes to India. As per the statistics maintained by the Trade and Export Promotion Centre, Nepal exported tea worth Rs 630 million to India last year.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 27 May 2020 12:01

They don't make Palm oil and just keep the pressure quietly, the Nepalis should learn that it is their interest to get rid of Oli type Communists.

If they want to make an Amendment to their constitution they must make a claim to all land China has stolen from them.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 27 May 2020 13:52

Aditya_V wrote:They don't make Palm oil and just keep the pressure quietly, the Nepalis should learn that it is their interest to get rid of Oli type Communists.

If they want to make an Amendment to their constitution they must make a claim to all land China has stolen from them.



these guys are slyly and purposely pushing their own nondescript tea as Darjeeling tea which is geotagged by India and has a huge market.



Darjeeling green and white teas, whose price varies from Rs 3,000 -Rs 10,000 per kg, have received Geographical Indication (GI) tag for the domestic market, which will put to rest any doubt about their authenticity and quality. ... “Darjeeling black tea is already registered as GI.



palm oil is an import from malasia, and also it is not of good quality so the profits to the unscrupulous nepalese traders are quite high. India has been a tad lax in enforcing trade restrictions on nepal and these guys are claiming precedence to push their shoddy wares into India.

nepalese tea has already affected the traditional markets for India's Geographical Indication (GI) tagged Dargelling fine teas

This import ban was enforced (for palm oil & tea) from nepal before the cheeni inspired nepalese claims to India's territory went public.

The beedis were also slapped with a ban on palm oil exports to India at the same time for the same reason.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby nvishal » 28 May 2020 19:33

2 weeks ago, the Indian govt suspended licences of 39 firms who were acquiring palm oil from nepal and bangladesh.

Those two countries do not produce palm oil. They were acting as a clearing state for Malaysian palm oil imports. Because of the FTA, imports from these two states do not incur import duty which hostile states(like China, Malaysia) have taken advantage of.

Recently, China was planning to dump their goods into India via srilanka and maldives FTA. This too was flagged by India.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby nvishal » 31 May 2020 15:15

Nepal has restructured its political map and now includes some regions from India. This sets the stage for Nepal to ask help from the PLA to wrestle these areas into Nepal.

This mimics the situation in doklam, where Bhutan is an Indian protectorate. Nepal seems to desire the same status from China. This move likely comes after backdoor talks between Nepali politicians and the Chinese.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 31 May 2020 16:28

For Nepal to do that it will be equaling to declare war on India. Nepal is even more dependent than Bhutan on India. Nepal Congress and Communists are allied with Indian Congress and Communist party. While they would like to embarrass Modi, declaring war will invite an economic blockade with India which will soon turn Political suicide. I hope the PLA would try this.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby nvishal » 31 May 2020 16:49

Conspiring and infighting is an extremely old tradition on the indic subcontinent. People on the eastern side of the border have been engaged in wars with people on the western side(now Pakistan) since even before they fell to the Arab conquests.

Nothing has changed. The castes in nepal and srilanka have the same ambitions. If they can get it by making a deal with any neighbouring regional power, they will. As they already are.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Gerard » 31 May 2020 18:12

Amendment to formalise new map tabled in Nepal parliament
The Constitution Second Amendment bill will change the Schedule 3 of the Nepalese Constitution and replace the existing map with the map that was unveiled on May 20. The new map depicts the sliver of strategically important land covering Limpiyadhura, Lipulekh and Kalapani as part of Nepal. The area is currently part of Pithoragarh district of Uttarakhand but Nepal has disputed the Indian position based on historical documents and bilateral understanding. Ms. Tumbahangphe said the Coat of Arms of Nepal will be altered after the amendment is passed as it will depict the new map. The tabling of the amendment bill came a day after the chief opposition, the Nepali Congress, extended support to Prime Minister K.P. Sharma Oli’s government which ensured that the bill will get the required two-thirds majority in the parliament. The entire process is expected to take around a week.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 31 May 2020 18:28

Aditya_V wrote:For Nepal to do that it will be equaling to declare war on India. Nepal is even more dependent than Bhutan on India. Nepal Congress and Communists are allied with Indian Congress and Communist party. While they would like to embarrass Modi, declaring war will invite an economic blockade with India which will soon turn Political suicide. I hope the PLA would try this.


sadly, these people who all so willingly play proxy to china but visit India regularly for healthcare and medical treatment.

prachanda is an example.

as is k.p. sharma oli, whose first kidney transplant was done in India at the apollo hospital in dilli in 2007.

Indian teachers and doctors are still present in large numbers in every college and big hospital in nepal.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Ambar » 31 May 2020 18:59

Many Nepalese continue to live, study and work freely in India. I don't know if its still the case but the head priest in Nepal's most important temple the 'Pashupathinath Mandir' was always from coastal Karnataka. Our enemies are so lucky that they can exploit emotions, fears, faultlines against us with such ease with little to no investment. In the long run Nepal's tango with China will result in the later impinging Nepal's territories and completely hollowing out whatever remains of Nepal's economy all the while Nepal is busy fighting this imaginary big bully to its west.

Looks like India will be paying off the expensive bills of UPA governments follies for a long long time. The signs that Nepal was slipping were all too obvious in the mid-2000s itself when so many paki terror cells were being identified in Nepal, and we twiddled our thumbs and sat on our behinds when Nepal went into a bloody civil war with the communists coming to power. Push too hard and India risks upsetting the Nepalese population many of whom have no squabbles with India and share a cultural ,spiritual and religious bond, do nothing and we risk China further using Nepal as a lever against India.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Gerard » 31 May 2020 19:10

Targeted sanctions against individuals and family members like Oli?

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Ambar » 31 May 2020 19:17

Create a parallel populist movement within Nepal which is not antagonistic to India, it shouldn't be too hard in a country with ~$1000 nominal GDP/Per capita.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby m_saini » 31 May 2020 19:58

Think we should start by closing our border with them and requiring a Rs1000 visa fee. Even the americans don't have open border with canada, whom they see it as the 50th state.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Gerard » 31 May 2020 20:22

The media is full of advice by 'experts' advocating 'continuous engagement', the need for India to be 'generous' and 'understanding' in its negotiations.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby KJo » 31 May 2020 20:38

The reason why this happens is people don't take India seriously because we have had a succession of weak leaders. Even Modi still does not exercise India's might like he can and should. The moment people realize that there is a cost for messing around with India, they will all fall in line. Like Malaysia.

I think India needs to play the same games that other powers do and clandestinely start and encourage a pro Hindutva BJP like movement in Nepal. Nepalis have lost their identity and pride just like the Hindus in India. BJP has revived it in recent years, this can happen in Nepal also.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby kit » 31 May 2020 21:48

Nepal is heavily dependent on India for its survival literally .. what is Oli gambling on ?!!! .. all it takes is a matter of hours for the IA to take over Nepal

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby abhik » 31 May 2020 22:19

KJo wrote:The reason why this happens is people don't take India seriously because we have had a succession of weak leaders. Even Modi still does not exercise India's might like he can and should. The moment people realize that there is a cost for messing around with India, they will all fall in line. Like Malaysia.

I think India needs to play the same games that other powers do and clandestinely start and encourage a pro Hindutva BJP like movement in Nepal. Nepalis have lost their identity and pride just like the Hindus in India. BJP has revived it in recent years, this can happen in Nepal also.

The china backed commies have come to power after a bloody civil war, if the commies need to be removed then then I don't think anything less than another civil war will do. Piecemeal actions like removing visa free movement will not be enough.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby nvishal » 01 Jun 2020 10:33

m_saini wrote:Think we should start by closing our border with them and requiring a Rs1000 visa fee. Even the americans don't have open border with canada, whom they see it as the 50th state.

No PM has overturned gujrals doctrine yet. It should have never existed in the first place. If you disregard basic commerce and start giving away things for free(open borders, FTA, ass kissing etc) then no one will respect you.

Respect and fear are synonyms of each other. If you have noticed, the congress creed understands indic infighting better than the rightwing who prefer to disacknowledge it.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby nvishal » 01 Jun 2020 10:38

kit wrote:Nepal is heavily dependent on India for its survival literally .. what is Oli gambling on ?!!! .. all it takes is a matter of hours for the IA to take over Nepal

Nepal is not an islamic nut house. It is a sovereign country. You can't just say you'll take over it without inviting international condemnation and sanctions. Treat it like you'd treat any other adversary.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Lohit » 01 Jun 2020 12:44

Gerard wrote:Targeted sanctions against individuals and family members like Oli?


Not sanctions.

Heads must roll. More specifically and literally, Oli's.

While it may not be a good look, time for goody-good geopolitics is now over. We must enforce and project brute strength like never before to ensure we create satellites. Or risk becoming one.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Jun 2020 13:43

I think like Maldives we must work with the Nepali people to do this, a new party like Nepal Janata Party or something should be done. Slowly turn the screws so that the people who matter can expose how dangerous Oli, Nepali Congress and Co are to Nepal itself.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 01 Jun 2020 14:54

kit wrote:Nepal is heavily dependent on India for its survival literally .. what is Oli gambling on ?!!! .. all it takes is a matter of hours for the IA to take over Nepal


we need to tread carefully here because there are many Gorkha soldiers in the IA who are very loyal to India but at the same time, their motherland is nepal.

No need to poke the bear precipitously and land up in a soup.

I saw at firsthand what bluestar did to the sikhs in the forces.

we need to be sure that we never place our own in such a situation ever again.

BTW, India has never been overly popular with the nepalese middle class and the elites. They say that we treat them in a dismissive and big brotherly way. If one has had dealings with the educated nepalese, one would tend to agree with them.

our arrogant babuz have, over the decades, definitely squandered away all the historical and civilizational goodwill that ever existed between the two peoples.

and to top it all, MMS and his masters were complicit in the handing over the reins of nepal to the commies, even using a thug like yechury to represent India and "negotiate" with the commies in nepal.

yechury obviously took instructions directly from the commie chinese and made sure that the prachanda commie gang grabbed power and formed the new nepalese govt.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby m_saini » 01 Jun 2020 17:51

chetak wrote:BTW, India has never been overly popular with the nepalese middle class and the elites. They say that we treat them in a dismissive and big brotherly way. If one has had dealings with the educated nepalese, one would tend to agree with them.


That's the problem right there, the big brotherly treatment. Nepalese want to be grown ups and we should start treating them like one. Imo all that "historical and civilizational goodwill" talk is exactly the reason why no one takes us seriously and why countries like sri lanka and nepal try to bend us over any time they please.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 01 Jun 2020 18:16

m_saini wrote:
chetak wrote:BTW, India has never been overly popular with the nepalese middle class and the elites. They say that we treat them in a dismissive and big brotherly way. If one has had dealings with the educated nepalese, one would tend to agree with them.


That's the problem right there, the big brotherly treatment. Nepalese want to be grown ups and we should start treating them like one. Imo all that "historical and civilizational goodwill" talk is exactly the reason why no one takes us seriously and why countries like sri lanka and nepal try to bend us over any time they please.


since the time of our beloved unelected but deviously selected cha cha neverwho, India has been condescending to the world. All that BS about ahimsa and non violence crap which gandhi so knowingly and cunningly drilled into our collective heads has done the damage.

Nothing in this world has been achieved without the serious application of violence. Look at the crusades, the spread of the ropers and the rolers. That is why every country in the world has an army and the army exists only because it allows all these countries to use and apply controlled violence to achieve their aims and ambitions when they deem it necessary to do so.

why have open borders with any country, especially with nepal. The political divisions and minority appeasement for decades have allowed the neighbors to run roughshod. others are immediately emboldened after seeing the open border with nepal and then they refuse to respect us or our boundaries because we our selves do no do so.

very difficult to manage such a self created and the entrenched situation now obtaining and not one that can be so easily be corrected without resorting to graded and situationally based state controlled scalable violence to put down infiltrators coming from wherever it may be.

shoot the beedis at the borders if they dare cross it illegally or the rohingyas for that matter.

India is not their father's property but we are bound by the twisted logic of the BS about ahimsa and nonviolence crap.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby m_saini » 01 Jun 2020 18:57

chetak wrote:
m_saini wrote:since the time of our beloved unelected but deviously selected cha cha neverwho, India has been condescending to the world. All that BS about ahimsa and non violence crap which gandhi so knowingly and cunningly drilled into our collective heads has done the damage.

Nothing in this world has been achieved without the serious application of violence. Look at the crusades, the spread of the ropers and the rolers. That is why every country in the world has an army and the army exists only because it allows all these countries to use and apply controlled violence to achieve their aims and ambitions when they deem it necessary to do so.

why have open borders with any country, especially with nepal. The political divisions and minority appeasement for decades have allowed the neighbors to run roughshod. others are immediately emboldened after seeing the open border with nepal and then they refuse to respect us or our boundaries because we our selves do no do so.

very difficult to manage such a self created and the entrenched situation now obtaining and not one that can be so easily be corrected without resorting to graded and situationally based state controlled scalable violence to put down infiltrators coming from wherever it may be.

shoot the beedis at the borders if they dare cross it illegally or the rohingyas for that matter.

India is not their father's property but we are bound by the twisted logic of the BS about ahimsa and nonviolence crap.


+1000.
cha cha neverwho had such delusions of grandeur about being a "world leader" that it's almost cartoonish. Gandhi would use half the "ahimsa parmo dharma" scripture and deny us the right to fight our colonizers. Wonder why no one forced him to convince the british to stop fighting hitler and go do a "fast unto death" protest in nazi germany. All our current problems can be traced back these two doing what they did best: being morons.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby srin » 02 Jun 2020 13:01

Nepal is benefiting from our generosity.

We can play the game too. I'm sure we can dig up some old maps where some king few centuries ago conquered parts of current day Nepal and stake claim to that. We can lay claim to entire Terai region of Nepal too.

In terms of economy, the Nepalese economy is so intertwined with ours that it looks like Oli is trying to suicide his own country. We have just too many levers that it is not even worth explaining. Close the borders, forbid use of indian currency, passport to visit ...

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Sravan » 02 Jun 2020 13:26

srin wrote:Nepal is benefiting from our generosity.

We can play the game too. I'm sure we can dig up some old maps where some king few centuries ago conquered parts of current day Nepal and stake claim to that. We can lay claim to entire Terai region of Nepal too.

In terms of economy, the Nepalese economy is so intertwined with ours that it looks like Oli is trying to suicide his own country. We have just too many levers that it is not even worth explaining. Close the borders, forbid use of indian currency, passport to visit ...


Why wouldn’t we just invest in our friendly party like China is investing in Oli? Just place assets on the ground to turn the country towards being friendly again. That sounds like a better strategy than cutting ties and hoping for the best.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby mody » 02 Jun 2020 15:27

Best to do what we did in Sri Lanka and Maldives. Make sure that Oli and the commies loose in the election and the government falls. Just have to find the right guys in Nepali politics, that will tow our line.
Closing the border etc. will not help. Most people from Nepal who cross the border and work in India, are generally more pro-India. The so called Terai people or Madhesis. These people will be the worst hit, if we close the order.
Earlier we had good contacts within the Nepali army. However, once the commies came to power, a lot of their people have been pushed into the army. We need to again get the Nepali army to be on our side, so that if push came to shove, we can use the Nepali army to sack Oli and all of his ilk.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby chetak » 02 Jun 2020 17:04

mody wrote:Best to do what we did in Sri Lanka and Maldives. Make sure that Oli and the commies loose in the election and the government falls. Just have to find the right guys in Nepali politics, that will tow our line.
Closing the border etc. will not help. Most people from Nepal who cross the border and work in India, are generally more pro-India. The so called Terai people or Madhesis. These people will be the worst hit, if we close the order.
Earlier we had good contacts within the Nepali army. However, once the commies came to power, a lot of their people have been pushed into the army. We need to again get the Nepali army to be on our side, so that if push came to shove, we can use the Nepali army to sack Oli and all of his ilk.



this is precisely why parchanda insisted and manipulated things in such a way that his cadres were well and truly entrenched deep within in the nepalese army in every echelon of all the ranks.

this way even if some part of the nepalese army revolts for any reason, he has enough advance notice of any coup or threat and can neutralize these inimical forces within the nepalese army, by using nepalese army assets that are loyal only to him personally.

traitor yechury, the chinese paid commie bootlicker, was majorly responsible for this being allowed to happen.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Vivasvat » 06 Jun 2020 05:33

https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/hong-kong-belongs-to-china-nepal/article31741966.ece
Hong Kong belongs to China: Nepal

“Nepal reiterates its ‘one China policy’ and considers Hong Kong as an integral part of the People's Republic of China. Maintenance of peace, law and order is a primary responsibility of a nation. Nepal believes in non-interference in the internal affairs of any country and supports China’s efforts to maintain law and order in Hong Kong,” said the official spokesperson of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Kathmandu.

Pakistan has extended wholehearted support to Beijing’s ‘one China’ policy in the similar context.

The government of Nepal entered into an agreement to target “criminals” and anti-China activists during President Xi Jinping's Kathmandu visit in October 2019. The move was seen as a step towards signing of extradition treaty with Beijing that would allow Beijing to arrest Tibetan activists and critics of China visiting Nepal.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby disha » 09 Jun 2020 01:14

We do not need the Nepali army to do our bidding. If the Nepali army wants to be the police force of chicoms, they should be seen as a Chinese Commie stooges and a police force of chicom oppressing their own population.

In fact, we should ignore Nepal and all its recent anti-India utterances. They are like the fly trying to grab attention. Only thing that needs to be monitored is ChiCom presence in Nepal. We do not want Nepal to be a staging ground for PLA or PLAAF.

Long term for this perfidy, Nepal should be split. Current Nepal is a patchwork of principalities united only some 200 years back. The clock can be unrolled.

The larger goal for India is to defeat the ChiComms. Chinese people are clamouring for democracy. Taiwan, Hongkong, Xichuan, Manchuria. All need democratic inputs into the larger Chinese federation currently under the boot of ChiComs.

Added later: It is not India's fault if some Nepalese are too stupid to see where the world view is blowing. The world view is decidedly anti-China and Oli has endangered the future of Nepal by putting their lot with a murdering, bullying regime.
Last edited by disha on 09 Jun 2020 01:17, edited 1 time in total.

Raveen
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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Raveen » 09 Jun 2020 01:16

nvishal wrote:
kit wrote:Nepal is heavily dependent on India for its survival literally .. what is Oli gambling on ?!!! .. all it takes is a matter of hours for the IA to take over Nepal

Nepal is not an islamic nut house. It is a sovereign country. You can't just say you'll take over it without inviting international condemnation and sanctions. Treat it like you'd treat any other adversary.



You are right, just like the Russkis after Crimea and China after Tibet, now HK, and SCS....condemnation and sanctions!!

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby abhik » 09 Jun 2020 02:12

So the vote is supposed to take place today (9th), let's see how it turns out.
https://www.theweek.in/news/world/2020/ ... india.html

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby ricky_v » 09 Jun 2020 10:09

https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/resume-dialogue-with-nepal-now/article31781370.ece
In a statement, the Nepalese Ministry of Foreign Affairs expressed regret at India’s move. It said, “As per the Sugauli Treaty (1816), all the territories east of Kali (Mahakali) River, including Limpiyadhura, Kalapani and Lipu Lekh, belong to Nepal. This was reiterated by the Government of Nepal several times in the past and most recently through a diplomatic note addressed to the Government of India dated 20 November 2019 in response to the new political map issued by the latter.”

The people of Nepal fought for India’s independence. B.P. Koirala and many more Nepalese made enormous sacrifices during the freedom struggle.

. The dispute today is with regard to the origin of the Kali River. Nepal claims that the origin is in the higher reaches of this hilly territory which would establish its claim on Kalapani and Lipulekh. The Boundary Committee constituted in the year 2000 failed to resolve the issue. There is a need to renew it to end the cartographic tussle between the two countries.

https://english.khabarhub.com/2020/20/97784/
Image
https://risingnepaldaily.com/featured/indias-cartographic-manipulation-of-nepali-territory-a-case-of-limpiyadhura-to-lipulek
The Sugauli Treaty ceded the district of Kumaon and Garhwal to the British which connected the British to the borders of Tibet for the first time from the west of Nepal and to the east through the treaty of Titalia 1817 with Sikkim. Article 5 of the treaty states: “The Rajah of Nepal renounces for himself, his heirs and successors, all claim to or connexon with the countries lying to the west of the river Kali and engages never to have any connexon with those countries or the inhabitants thereof.” This border river “Kali” is now called Mahakali in Nepal and Sarada in India.
The map of 2nd January 1816 is also the pictorial interpretation of the secret letter of 1st June, 1815 by Lord Hastings, the then Governor General, which states: “The eastern boundary will be the Kali, which rises in the Snowy Mountains, and pursues nearly a direct southerly course to the plains, where it assumes the name of the Gogra.

Informative article, read in full.
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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby disha » 10 Jun 2020 02:13



Calling out the above article as garbage. If Nepalis want to become the Musharraf of the ChiComs, what can India do? Nepal is behaving like a village idiot who got the attention of the Cheeni emperor and is feeling oh-superior of themselves.

And here is the funny part, the village idiot (Nepal or rather its constituent assembly) is addressing a civilizational nation of which it is a part on how to manage relations with its new found master - ChiComs

Finally, can it be assumed that India would be blocked completely to China in the future without Lipulek pass? Is India still feeling unsafe from China so that it needs the Indian army at the bunker on the land encroached from Nepal?

Is not India familiar with war technology that has been moving further from GPS guided missile? And further, does not India want to be friendly with its neighbours in behavior, not in crocodile tears and not on the givers-beggars principle?


The village idiot (Nepal, or its constituent assembly) is talking about givers-beggars principle *after* participating in SAARC satellite and sagely advising India on its security needs!

India must think positively about the signing of trade and transit protocol between Nepal and China and on how to make the best use of such a relation for its benefits as well.


Right. Tomorrow you give transit rights to the PLA and India is supposed to sit quiet? No doubt the village idiot (Nepal or rather its constituent assembly) are treated like scums.

Furthermore, if Nepal keeps some of her territorial areas outside the official map, India gets excuses to keep encroaching for years to come.


Wait! The village idiot (Nepal or rather its constituent assembly) is saying that they are unilaterally claiming a piece of land of their neighbors just because they feel that the current map is in error?

As said earlier, the article linked is junk and is good for patients with low BP problems.

And we have forum members pasting such non-sense as 'informative'!

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby ricky_v » 10 Jun 2020 02:48

I sincerely apologise if posting articles from yashwant sinha, a former tall leader of the ruling party, an ex- beauracrat is giving offense; kindly report the post to admins as such. Further, make it a bannable offense to post articles not conforming to viewpoints so that your eyes are not sullied reading such filth ever again.
Ignore, liquor makes poor reading comprehension worse; thiough some blame must be ascribed to you disha sir for throwing me off, the post had 1 indian link and 2 nepali ones, the one you quote has the words nepal and rising in close proximity, what did you even expect? of course it has ramblings, all south asian media outlets have that as their usp, be it paki or bd ones, they hide their information deep in such schizo mutterings; the informative bits are these:
1) The author is a retired technocrat
A professional hydrologist and ex-chairman of ETFC, the author can be reached at bhusaljagat@yahoo.com

2) He has an odd manner of writing
India should also realize the pain of Nepal, suffering from being landlocked and frequent transit blockades which have been resulting in economic and humanitarian crisis due to which it was forced to establish trade and transit protocol with China.

Nepalis have been feeling bitter about the enforcement of water resources treaties. Therefore, if India respects moral values,

And further, does not India want to be friendly with its neighbours in behavior, not in crocodile tears and not on the givers-beggars principle?

One falls to moral pithy in expression when it is aware that the opponent is strong, are the others in the nepali babudom similarly afflicted? or is it a generational thing? how do the newer babus display their inadequacy and how can these be exploited?
I am given to understand that the concept of profiling is strong in the west, it can be utilised for maximising our gains.
3) The article is well researched from a historical perspective
After the Sugauli Treaty, Bhootiya Zamindar of Kumaon wanted to retain three villages namely, Gunji, Nabi and Kuti within Kumaon in the British territory. But, Bom Shah, Chautariya from Nepal, had sent an objection letter to the British regime claiming that those villages belonged to Nepal. In response to the claim of Bom Shah, John Adams, the acting secretary, who also served as acting Governor General (Jan-Aug 1823) had confirmed that those three villages lying eastwards of Kali River belonged to Nepal, so on 4 February 1817, he sent an order letter to GW Trail, Commissioner of Kumaon to surrender those villages to the regime of Nepal with a copy of the letter to Edward Gardner, the resident commissioner of British India in Kathmandu.
In the map of 1827, the borderline is presumably marked by an unnamed stream (Kalapani ?) shown to be originating from Koonlus range (Map 3, borderline 2) and meets the stream coming from Lipulek side in the east and then flows straight to the south till Gunji confluence. This stream is shown flowing almost straight north-south in the old map. This map has encroached about 238 sq km of Kali’s upstream and about 50 sq km of Lipu’s watershed.

he British India seemed to be attracted to the Kuti area because Kuti village (at about 3800 meters) had its value as it was the uppermost settlement serving as a base camp for those wanting to cross to Tibet, routes to Chhota Kailash and Parbati Kunda.
The Lipu basin, except for the seasonal and limited uses by pilgrims, is non-arable and non-settleable land.
Encouraged from encircling over Kuti area, the British India became more aware of Lipulek pass which, even in harsh and snowfall months, is crossable to Tibet for trade and transit, importantly as pilgrims’ route to Mt. Kailash and Mansarovar.

Lipulek pass did not hold much attraction to Nepali rulers because of Hilsa and Tinker pass being easier routes compared to the former.
The border agreement of 1845 adopted the fixed border principle and after the Naya Muluk Treaty of 1860, the borderline in the southern plain is marked by “Jange Pillar” with auxiliary reference pillars.

Limpiyadhura as the origin of Kali is also proved by the river science perspective postulated by John Playfair (1802), R E Horton (1945) and AN Strahler (1964). The main river at any confluence is distinguished from its length, its water volume, its watershed area and number of tributaries to it (Bhusal, 1996). The average water flows, the river length and the watershed area of Kali (Kuthi Yanti) are about three times larger, 2.5 times longer, and three times greater than Lipu (or Kalapani) stream respectively at the Gunji confluence.
After 1865-77, the Kali River at its uppermost reach (Gunji to Limpiyadhura) was named as KuthiYanti, another cartographic manipulation. Later, around the 1880s, the British India realized that a small stream cannot be the main river, so there was yet another manipulation.
A map of Tibet-Nepal-United Provinces published by the surveyor-general of India in 1881showed three different shedding - one type for India including Kuti, another for Nepal including Lipu and another type of shedding for Tibet. It intended to mark the Kali as the border up to Gunji confluence and north from Gunji, the watershed divide line as the borderline (Map 3, borderline 3).
The Gazette of Amora in 1911 had attempted to justify the map manipulation by stating, “The Kali on the east has its true source in the Kuthi Yanti which after the fall in the Kalapani river takes the name of Kali”.
The map of The United Provinces (1907-09) is also coloured accordingly which encroaches about 238 sq km and leaves the whole watershed of Lipu (Kalapani) towards Nepal.
Last edited by ricky_v on 10 Jun 2020 06:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby KL Dubey » 10 Jun 2020 04:12

India should let the Nepalis go ahead and print their new map, and then permanently occupy the territory in question. It will take less than 30 mins and there will be little resistance.

If these idiots don't like us when we are nice to them, then it's time to see what happens when we are nasty.

Also, what is the current status of this area exactly ? As I understand India already has a road and infrastructure in the area. Do we have troops or other personnel on the ground there already ? According to Wikipedia, India is carrying on border trade with China in this area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipulekh_Pass

PS: it looks like the Kalapani area south of Lipulekh (that Nepal claims) is already part of an Indian district and administered by India. So I guess this is just posturing by the Nepalis with no actual hope of usurping this territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalapani_territory

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Re: Nepal and Bhutan News and discussion

Postby Rony » 10 Jun 2020 21:36



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