India-Myanmar news and discussion

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ramana
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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby ramana » 08 Sep 2017 01:46

For India, Myanmar territorial integrity is a supreme national interest.
Break up Not happening.

Even Suu Kyii coming back to power is via Indian interlocution with the military not Western NGOs

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby JE Menon » 09 Sep 2017 23:22

The position taken on Myanmar, combined with the PMs visit, will become a positive turning point in our relationship.

There is no question that there is a Pakistani role in Rakhine, and it may be on behalf of the lizard - which is anxious about Myanmar's turn towards normalcy, and therefore declining dependence.

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Karthik S » 09 Sep 2017 23:30

Gifting couple of LCH will send clear message to everyone.

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby abhik » 10 Sep 2017 02:08

Karthik S wrote:Gifting couple of LCH will send clear message to everyone.

IIRC a few years ago we tried to export the ALH to them but the French (who make the engine) blocked the deal. Although we could buy them Russian weapons like we are doing for BD :x

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby periaswamy » 06 Nov 2017 22:30

Suu Kyi to attend Asian forums

It is great to see that Asian countries are showing the EU/US/WestAsianArabs the middle finger and refusing to sanction Myanmar. That's the way to go.

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby periaswamy » 13 Nov 2017 21:29


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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby periaswamy » 18 Nov 2017 03:24

lame-brained justification for worsening relations with Myanmar

My comments:

Realists can dismiss all this as the domestic affairs of another country,of little import to international relations. However, at least since the Ne Win regime, Myanmar’s governments have rarely perceived any congruence of interests with India.


A round about way to try and justify Nehruvian moralizing as foreign policy -- realism dictates that Myanmar's internal affairs are none of India's business is because making it India's business would require sidelining more important concerns for India, such as defending it borders and boundaries. India can sit around and do the old Nehruvian nonsense of preaching about human rights to Myanmar, and then face the consequences of a Myanmar that is not receptive to India's border security concerns that arise down the line.
Yes, since the late 1990s, the Myanmarese army, the tatmadaw, has cooperated with Indian security forces to act against insurgents. That should beg the question of why they were and are in Myanmarese territory in the first place.


Clearly, the Myanmar regime had no skin in the game in keeping anti-India militant groups out of their territory at that time -- India's moves to normalize relations with Myanmar has changed that situation to one where Myanmar govt. has something to lose if they do not cooperate with India.
None of this implies that *worsening relations with Myanmar* (as recommended by this joker) will (a) have no consequences on Border security (b) still have a cooperative myanmar regime.

Moreover, through the last couple of decades the junta dabbled with sheltering fugitive Pakistani nuclear scientists, running drugs and arms smuggling rackets, and playing host to Chinese listening posts.


Drug running and arms smuggling in myanmar have been the norm for decades -- what does that have to do with India's relations with myanmar, unless such actions are a direct security threat to India?

For the past three decades, New Delhi’s appeasement of Myanmar in order to promote our interests – be it Look East, be it counter-insurgency, be it energy, be it balancing China – has produced lacklustre results.


Myanmar's cooperation in counter-insurgency has gotten results that are quite obvious to everyone but this takshashila imbecile. Furthermore, if we look at the details of India's "look east" policy, the Kaladan port project to improve connectivity of the NE via the Bay of Bengal to overcome the chicken's neck bottleneck have inherent value, it helps us not get too dependent on Bangladesh for moving goods to the north east (and as a corollary, working with Bangladesh makes us not too dependent on Myanmar).


It is possible to list a number of “under progress” projects in connectivity, energy and so on. But there is very little that counts as success. India’s foreign policy establishment has allowed itself to be played by the regime, between the carrots the latter dangles and FOLO, the fear of losing out (to China).


India's interactions with myanmar have their own value and very little to do with what China's relations to Myanmar -- in fact, Myanmar has been working with both India and china on local projects of mutual interest. The very fact that India and Myanmar have points of engagement and projects of mutual interest is a net positive. One would have to be a Nehruvian cretin to pretend that the lack of success is a good reason to turn a net positive to a net negative based on some notion of being the moral champion for some group of people in Myanmar.

The truth is Myanmar is practically irrelevant to our Look East policy. Sea and air links are adequate, and easily expandable, to connect India to Southeast Asian markets.


When all else fails, just reach into the nearest hole and pull out a claim that "Myanmar is irrelevant" and it shall become reality. Currently, there is no connectivity from the rest of India to the North East that will connect the North east to Indian markets, forget about "southeast asian markets", which is where Myanmar comes into play. In order of priority, it is important to integrate the North East to India's economy and depart from the policy of benign neglect as practised the babucracy from Nehruvian times.

As far as cooperation in fighting insurgents goes, the Myanmarese are doing it because and only to the extent it is in their interests.


Yes, and only a moron would expect any different. The whole point of aligning interests is so that Myanmar finds it in their own interests to contribute in a positive way to India's security.

Even here, Myanmar’s role is often overstated, papering over the rampant collusion between the tatmadaw and various armed groups operating along the India-Myanmar border.


Utter disinformation. I would like to see this joker give a list of exactly what these groups are where they have been colluding against India's interest in the North East.

Indeed, despite its bipolar domestic politics where one party is pro-India and the other isn’t, Bangladesh is already far more important to India than Myanmar could ever be. As I argued in last month’s column, New Delhi should back Bangladesh over the Rohingya issue and rally international support for Dhaka’s efforts.


India's relationship between Myanmar and Dhaka is not a zero sum game -- there is absolutely no reason to sacrifice relations with one neighbour in the interest of the other. The Rohingya issue is a bilateral issue between Bangladesh and Myanmar -- India is already providing material support to Bangladesh for the Rohingyas. "Rallying international support" for what is essentially a bilateral matter between the two would require spending a lot of political capital that comes with a cost for India's neighbourhood security.

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby shuuro » 11 May 2018 13:58

http://www.rediff.com/news/special/myanmar-pushes-into-indian-territory-occupies-manipur-villages/20180511.htm

Myanmar pushes into Indian territory, occupies Manipur villages

Myanmarese soldiers along with local villagers reached the site, pulled down the pillar at its original site and erected it inside N Satsang village itself.

"There was a very old tree in the middle of the zero line," Maring said. "On their side, the border demarcation was inscribed in the Myanmerese language and in our side, it was written in English to mark the zero line of the international border."

"Myanmarese army personnel first got the tree cut, then burnt it to the roots and wiped out all its traces. The intention was very clear -- to wipe out any trace of demarcation. We urged them not to destroy the proof," Maring said. "But they warned us to leave as the area belongs to Myanmar."

According to Leinai, the chairman of Choktong village, "Border disputes are not new. But this time they (the Myanamar army) are more aggressive and forcibly took over our land."

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India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Peregrine » 11 May 2018 15:23

X Posted on the Terroristan, Analyzing CPEC and Sri Lanka - News and Discussion Threads

After all other cases World Wide in General and Hambantota along with Gwadar in Particular Kyaukpyu is the latest victim - Ab Tera Kya Hoga Terroristaniya?

The fishing port that may become a $10 billion Chinese debt bomb

The town of Kyaukpyu, nestled around a small fishing port on the Bay of Bengal, has the air of a place expecting to get rich soon.

In the seaside market, stalls of seafood unloaded from wooden fishing boats floating in the rubbish-strewn harbor have been joined by stacks of Chinese-made toys and smartphones. Nearby, cattle graze between building sites as high-rise offices and hotels replace weather-stained bungalows. Fine-dining rooftop restaurants and a golf course underline the sense of transition.

Much of the development, and a jump in land prices, are anticipating a gigantic prize for this remote Myanmar town of 50,000 people: $10 billion to build a deep-sea port and industrial zone, financed by China. The investment plan -- seven times the cost of Chinese-built ports in Sri Lanka and Cameroon -- has put Kyaukpyu at the center of a debate in Myanmar and across Asia as to who really benefits from China’s grand Belt and Road strategy.

“The real danger of the port is that its extreme expense could lead the Myanmar government to take out an unsustainable level of debt,” said Greg Poling, director of the Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative, at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. “That, in combination with other current and future projects in Myanmar, could in the coming years lead to a debt trap.”

Those concerns have stalled development since the previous military government chose China’s CITIC Group to build the port three years ago. CITIC, China’s first state-owned investment corporation, has proposed taking a 70 percent stake in the project, with the remainder split between the Myanmar government and a consortium of local firms. The Chinese company would run the zone for up to 75 years and would finance Myanmar’s stake.

“We keep hearing it will be built since 2015, but nothing has happened so far,” said Shwe Shwe Maung, 34, the head of KaBalan, a village of 460 households in the area marked for the economic zone. “We don’t know exactly what the impact will be, but we’re all hoping that it will bring jobs.”

Some senior government officials are concerned that a nation with a smaller economy than the Dominican Republic may struggle to service and repay the billions of dollars Myanmar would need to borrow for the project.

“The amount of interest is quite substantial, and not like the loans we got from the Japanese government -- the loans from China are much more expensive,” said Soe Win, a member of the ruling National League for Democracy’s central economic committee and a candidate to become Myanmar’s next central bank governor. He declined to give details of the proposed loan.

The Japan International Cooperation Agency is helping finance a $3.28 billion economic zone at Thilawa port, south of Yangon. The Thilawa development has raised further questions about Myanmar’s need for such a large facility in Kyaukpyu (pronounced CHOW-pew) or whether it would simply be a conduit for China, run by Chinese companies.

“Is this deep-sea port being made to benefit Myanmar?” said Ken Tun, founder and chief executive of Myanmar’s Parami Energy, the only local firm to be short-listed for the development. “If we have a deep sea port, but it’s not controlled by Myanmar, that’s a problem.”

One major concern for some members of the government is what happened in Sri Lanka. In 2008, a joint venture with China began building a deep-water port at Hambantota. When Sri Lanka couldn’t repay the loan for the project, it ended up ceding the port to China for 99 years last year in exchange for debt relief. “China is trying to influence political events in Myanmar in many ways,” Soe Win said in an interview. “But what we are afraid of is that we will end up like Sri Lanka.”

Lessons for Leaders Eying China’s Belt-and-Road Billions

Toe Aung Myint, permanent secretary of the Myanmar Ministry of Commerce, which oversees the project management committee, rejects the suggestion that the port would entail too much debt, saying construction would happen in stages.

“Myanmar and Sri Lanka are not the same,” Aung Myint said in an interview. “Only based on the success of the first phase, we will do another phase.”

CITIC directed questions regarding the port to the Myanmar government. “We are unable to disclose information regarding the negotiation to the public,” Zhang Yue, the head of CITIC Myanmar, said in an email.

Soe Win isn’t the only one worried about the long-term plans for Kyaukpyu. Located on the eastern edge of the Bay of Bengal, the town is almost directly opposite INS Varsha, where the Indian navy will base its new fleet of nuclear submarines.

A Myanmar government official familiar with China’s plans for Kyaukpyu said military attaches from the U.S., Australia and countries in Southeast Asia have all expressed concern that China wants to build a port that has strategic as well as economic advantages.

“China needs some sort of access or staging facilities in several different places in the Indian Ocean,” said David Brewster, a senior fellow at Australia’s National Security College and an expert on India-China maritime security. “Myanmar would be a good place to have a naval base.”

Myanmar’s government may have little alternative to a Chinese loan if it wants to build the port. The political outrage sparked in the U.S. and Europe over the treatment of the Rohingya minority has left it with few allies among developed nations.

Kyaukpyu, 400 kilometers (250 miles) north-west of the capital, Yangon, is in Rakhine state, where more than 600,000 Rohingya have been driven from their homes into neighbouring Bangladesh since last August, in what the United Nations’ top human rights official has called “ethnic cleansing.” While most of the clashes happened further north, the conflict rattled investors, prompting China to send a group of diplomats to Rakhine in December.

“They wanted to learn more about the security of their investments,” said Aung Dung, 71, chairman of the Kyaukpyu branch of the NLD, who met the delegation. “The Chinese have quite a lot going on down here.”

Pipeline Links

The town already has oil and gas loading terminals, built since 2013, that feed pipelines transporting the fuel directly to Yunnan province in Western China. A rail link is planned to connect the container port.

“Kyaukpyu is definitely growing,” Yan Myo Aung, 54, chairman of Kyaukpyu branch of the Arakan National Party, whose family operates a number of local retail businesses. “We hope that the Special Economic Zone will add to that.”

Shop owner Saw Maung Nu is one of many local residents who are anticipating a windfall.

“I built this house and shop here two years ago because of the development,” said Saw, 58, a father of eight, in Thaing Shaung, a smattering of houses outside Kyaukpyu in the center of the proposed industrial zone. “I thought all the people coming to work here might need to buy things.”

He said land prices have risen from $20,000 an acre to $50,000 an acre and he’s hoping the government will pay the market rate to buy him out.

Even without the potential military benefits of Kyaukpyu, the port’s commercial advantages make it a key part of China’s maritime Belt and Road strategy.

CITIC says the terminal would have an annual capacity for 4.9 million containers, more than the current throughput of Brazil’s biggest container terminal, as well as loading oil for the pipeline. With the rail link, it would give exporters in Yunnan a short-cut to the Indian Ocean, bypassing the disputed waters in the South China Sea and the congested Straits of Malacca. I have stressed this point "many a time"

“Yunnan is very important for them, it’s landlocked,” said Soe Win. “We will be happy if they use their Kyaukpyu port as a commercial port. But if they would like to turn it into a kind of military base, then we’ll be very, very sad.”

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby ricky_v » 28 Sep 2018 16:22

https://notesonliberty.com/2018/09/25/china-myanmar-economic-corridor-and-the-limits-of-cheque-book-diplomacy/
On September 9, 2018 Myanmar and China signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) for establishing the China-Myanmar Economic Corridor (CMEC), as part of China’s ambitious Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). The corridor will traverse a distance of approximately 1700 kilometres and seeks to connect Kunming (in China’s Yunnan Province) with Myanmar’s key economic points – Mandalay, Yangon, and Kyauphkyu.

There has been skepticism with regard to the BRI project in general, and China’s involvement in the SEZ and Sea Port to be set up in Kyauphkyu (a coastal town in the Rakhine Province) in particular. Large sections of the population have been questioning the economic rationale of the project – and the benefits for Myanmar. CITIC (China’s biggest financial conglomerate) was awarded both projects, but it had to reduce its stake from 85 percent to 70 percent in the Sea Port after vehement opposition from the local population. Locals found the 85-15 arrangement unreasonable. Fearing a debt trap, the NLD government in Myanmar has also reduced the initial value of the Sea Port project – a whopping $7.3 billion USD to $1.3 billion. There has been opposition to the SEZ as well (mainly on environmental grounds), and while the initial Chinese take in the SEZ (originally valued at $2.7 billion) was 51 percent, it is likely to be revised.

The authors of the article also makes a significant point: that Chinese businessmen are not familiar with Myanmar. While the article could be referring to the lack of familiarity with Myanmar’s policies, many host countries have been critical not just of the ‘one sided’ nature of Chinese economic investments, but their unwillingness to understand local cultures, and the fact that they remain aloof from the local population.

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Vips » 08 Jan 2019 18:58

India all set to take over ops in Myanmar's Sittwe Port.

India after Chabahar Port in Iran is all set to take over operations of Myanmar's Sittwe Port that will enable to counter-balance China's BRI in the Indo-Pacific region.

In a written reply to a question in Rajya Sabha, Minister of state for Shipping, Road transport and chemical & fertilizer Mansukh L Mandaviya informed that the "infrastructure at Sittwe Port in Myanmar, constructed with India’s assistance, is ready for operation."

The construction of Sittwe Port is part of the Kaladan multi-modal transit transport project and its objective is to create a multi-modal sea, river and road transport corridor for shipment of cargo from the eastern ports of India to Myanmar through Sittwe port as well as to north-eastern part of India via Myanmar.

The approved construction cost of Sittwe Port and Inland Water Terminals at Sittwe and Paletwa is Rs. 517.29 crore. India and Myanmar signed a bilateral Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on 22nd October, 2018 for operationalisation of the port at Sittwe and Inland Water Transport (IWT) Terminals at Sittwe and Paletwa. Once fully operational, the project would encourage investment and trade and also open up alternate routes for connectivity to India’s north-east region.

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2019 09:27

+1008!!!

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Neshant » 05 Feb 2019 09:54

Is it true the name Burma came from Brahma - the god of creation?

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby SSridhar » 07 Mar 2019 09:15

India-Myanmar: Positive Developments M.A.Athul - South Asia Terrorism Portal

Reports on March 4, 2019, stated that 500 Tatmadaw (Myanmar Military) personnel dismantled Indian Insurgent Groups’ (IIGs) infrastructure located in the Taga area of the Sagaing Region in north-western Myanmar. The Security Forces (SFs) took over control of the National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Khaplang (NSCN-K) ‘head quarters’ in operations over the last week of February 2019 (date not specified). Significantly, a note by Tatmadaw stated that the crackdown started on January 29, 2019.

SFs also seized two ‘military training schools’ and two United Liberation Front of Asom-Independent (ULFA-I) outposts, located southwest of Taka village (in the same region), as well as a temporary base of ULFA-I located west of Taka, also during the last week of February 2019. The crackdown came after NSCN-K refused to follow Tatmadaw’s reported order to drive out all non-Myanmarese militants from the region.

The only fatality in the crackdown was an ULFA-I militant, identified as ‘major’ Jyotirmoy Asom, who was killed in a fire fight on February 2. ULFA-I has an estimated 150 cadres in Myanmar. 79 assorted arms and some ammunition were recovered from the camps and at least 12 militants, including six NSCN-K militants, were arrested.

The IIG’s targeted during the crackdown include NSCN-K, ULFA-I, Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO), and National Democratic Front of Bodoland-Saraigwra (NDFB-S). It has been estimated that about 2,000 cadres of various IIGs are based in Myanmar.

Reports, meanwhile indicate that NSCN-K ‘military chief’ Niki Sumi has moved north towards the China border, while other IIGs have been pushed to the region occupied by the Kachin Independence Army (KIA) in North Myanmar.

Referring to the crackdown in an interview published on February 23, 2019, ULFA-I ‘chairman’ Paresh Baruah, disclosed,

Our soldiers and other officers have moved out from the base camps to safe zones via various secret routes. It was Burmese (Myanmar) army’s operation against us due to tremendous pressure from Government of India. India Government gives lot of arms and ammunition to Burmese Government so that they can carry out operations against ULFA-I, NSCN-K and Manipur groups.

Earlier, on February 20, 2019, NSCN-K ‘central executive committee’ member U. Kyaw Wan Sein had revealed,

We asked them to stop the military operations they launched in our areas and to withdraw. But they have not stopped. Our region will have problems if they do not stop their military operations in our area.

It is useful to recall that this is not the first time that the Myanmar Army has targeted infrastructure of IIGs, particularly the NSCN-K, in Myanmar. In July 2018, a minor confrontation had occurred between NSCN-K and Tatmadaw over a NSCN-K check-post near a Buddhist temple at Taga. Isak Sumi, the then spokesperson of NSCN-K, had claimed that the “stand-off between the Myanmar Army and the Naga Army has temporarily been resolved without untoward incident, but the Naga Army had to make a tactical withdrawal”. In 1995, after some persuasion, the Myanmar Army agreed to conduct joint counter-insurgency operations with the Indian Army. Operation Golden bird was launched to intercept a party of the NSCN-IM, ULFA and the NDFB. In the midst of the operation, after 38 militants had been killed and more than a hundred weapons captured, New Delhi announced the Nehru Award to Aung San Su Kyi. Offended, the Myanmar Army abruptly called off the Operation, and it is estimated that more than a hundred militants escaped with their weapons.

Tatmadaw is irked with the NSCN-K which has allowed Myanmar insurgent groups such as Ta’ang National Liberation Army (TNLA) and Myanmar National Democratic Alliance Army (MNDAA) to traverse across north-eastern and north-western Myanmar through its area. According to a February 28 a report, former Tatmadaw official had stated that NSCN-K has helped replenish armed groups of Myanmar fighting the Tatmadaw.


The crackdown can also to be seen in the context of the Tatmadaw’s renewed military operation against the Arakan Army (AA). NSCN-K’s area in Myanmar is a strategically important region for Tatmadaw’s ongoing operations against AA since November 2018. The violence has spilled over from the Rakhine to the Chin State, adjacent to the Sagaing Region.

Moreover, impatience is growing in the Myanmar capital, Nay Pyi Daw, as NSCN-K refuses to give up its demand of an Independent Naga homeland (comprising Naga inhabited regions in Myanmar and India) and to sign the National Cease Fire Agreement (NCA). NSCN-K has only signed a regional cease fire agreement with Myanmar. The ceasefire agreement signed on April 9, 2012, is only applicable in the Sagaing Region.

As the Myanmar Army seeks to get an upper hand before the onset of monsoon, the Tatmadaw offensive will primarily target AA and, as a secondary effect, probably weaken IIGs, which will be forced to seek alternative safe areas. Tatmadaw operations have been calibrated to avoid large-scale fatalities or open up another front for the military, which is already fighting a plethora of ethnic insurgencies in the Kachin, Rakhine and Shan States. That being said, these operations will further weaken the NSCN-K, which recently suffered a split.

Conspicuously, this military operation augurs well for India-Myanmar relations. In New Delhi’s perspective, the recent military operation is the outcome of its continuous diplomatic efforts and military to military cooperation with the Myanmar (the latest developments being the December 2018 visit by senior military officials to Myanmar and the defence exchange program in which 120 Myanmar Defence personnel visited India). The Indian Government’s February 17, 2019, decision to deploy two additional companies of the Indian Army in Lawngtlai District (Mizoram), bordering Myanmar, to stop AA militants from entering its territory, can also be seen in this context.

M.A. Athul
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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Rudradev » 15 Mar 2019 22:13

Proof that India IS ready for a two-front war.

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/the-third ... in-myanmar


The ‘Third Surgical Strike’: Amidst Balakot, Indian Army Conducted Joint Mega Anti-Terror Operation In Myanmar



While the world was glued to the Balakot airstrike and events surrounding it in the aftermath of the Pulwama attack, the Indian Army in collaboration with the Myanmar Army conducting a mega operation to neutralise militants along the Indo-Myanmar border, reports India Today.

The joint operations were carried out from between 17 February and 2 March to pre-emptively wipe out a threat to the massive Kaladan Multi-Modal Transit Transport Project which is intended to connect Kolkata port with Sittwe Port in Myanmar. The project will also reduce the distance to travel between Mizoram and Kolkata by close to a thousand kilometres.

The threat was posed by the ‘Arakan Army’, one of the major insurgent groups active in Myanmar. Also targeted in another phase of the joint-operations was the Naga separatist outfit National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Khaplang (NSCN-K).

"A deal was cut out that after the action adjoining Mizoram the Myanmar army will hit the insurgent camps of other groups that have been targeting India. This resulted in totally wiping out of Taga, the HQ of NSCN (K). Based on specific inputs provided by us the Myanmar Army hit these camps and is now occupying them,” a security official stated.

Special forces of the Indian Army, the Assam Rifles and other infantry units participated in the operations. They were aided by drones, helicopters and other surveillance equipment.



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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2019 13:23

the arakan army sounds like a chinese funded, NSCN-K/IM trained outfit designed to spread instability in the rakhine state, recruit rohingyas and branch out into islamism also to destabilize that whole region.
these people were trained near chinese border but magically moved 100s of km to appear near sittwe and setup camps!

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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2019 13:45

its very hard to get proper videos of north myanmar except a few known touristy areas, here are two that give some "pulse" of the general area

india should encourage as much tourism into myanmar to bring about mutually beneficial ties

the kaladan river has the advantage of not having any dams right upto mizoram.




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Re: India-Myanmar news and discussion

Postby Singha » 16 Mar 2019 13:54



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