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Postby ramana » 11 May 2008 10:49

ranganathan wrote:You should be looking at how much the Thai navy depends on china before spouting rubbish like 200 years of US -Thai lovefest. Thai-Chinese relations go much longer than US has been around for. Indo-Thai relations are not upto the same level as US-Thai relations but Thailand does not have the balls to go up against both India and China. Rye, US is busy gettings its ass kicked in iraq and afghanistan and soon in lebanon, thats the only reason they are helpless and haven't tried stunts.


There was a book by a Thai princess or some Thai diplomat's daughter who wrote how she was sent as a hostage to PRC during Mao's time to assure them of Thai neutrality during the Vietnam War. She said it was standard practice during the Chinese emperor's times for Thailand to send their princes as hostages for good behaviour.

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Postby svinayak » 11 May 2008 10:55

vivek_ahuja wrote:
As a matter of fact, if I were an admin, I will ban anyone suggesting the military invasion of Myanmar. People of Myanmar are human beings not some pawns to be abused by western countries.


And yet, if the allegations being made about Western Intentions are true, the opinion here is that despite the sufferings of the people of Myanmar, it is in India's interests to ensure that a western intervention does not take place. Is this not bordering on hypocrisy itself?

If we want to talk about the betterment of the Indian Geo-political situation in the region, of which Myanmar is a big part, then we should distance ourselves away from such statements as the above.

Geo-politics is dangerous game. It is the special interest groups which are taking advantage here.

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Postby vsudhir » 11 May 2008 16:31

Geo-politics is dangerous game. It is the special interest groups which are taking advantage here.


Acharya-eque but quite on target.

The yamrikis chose to conveniently ignore the deliberate slaughter of upto 3 million defenseless innocents in BD (circa 1971), had not lifted a finger against another 0.75 mil getting slaughtered in Rwanda (circa 1994), dare do nothing against NoKo where systematic starvation is (almost) state policy {lends credence to the Nukes as best guarantee against US aggression line, IMHO}, and now get all indignant, accusatory and haughty at Myanmar? Is it anybody's case that but for geopolitical location reasons, int'l interest would be just as high?

Don't get me wrong. The Burmese junta is sickening. I'm not out to defend them. I hope they get their just desserts. I'm only concerned with the in-principle acceptance of the convenient doctrine of 'armed intervention on humanitarian grounds' thing that is being orcheastrated all round, on a cue, in western media, academic and policy circles.

Anyway, my last on this debate.
/Have a nice day, all.

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Postby Rye » 11 May 2008 18:41

Well said, vsudhir. All the folks who want to topple the Myanmar regime need to think about Suu Kyi and her loyalty to the west, and why Myanmar cannot fall to the west. Period. Suu Kyi may be a saint but she is still a western pawn in Myanmar -- her husband Michael Aris is clearly connected to the very top of the UK establishment, and she is the last chance for the UK to gain a foothold in Myanmar, and hence all the hurry to do a "regime change" in Myanmar.

Some of the junta are despicable methamphetamine-dealing thugs and murderers, but taking them out right now will set Myanmar in flames, which is exactly the intent of those in the west who want to "help" by sending in "aid workers" right now, and cannot be bothered to just hand over their "aid" and get out. These ex-colonial rat ba$tards in France, US and elsewhere need to remember that this is the 21st century and their dickhead colonial-era behavior is not acceptable.

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Postby John » 11 May 2008 21:23

Rye wrote:Well said, vsudhir. All the folks who want to topple the Myanmar regime need to think about Suu Kyi and her loyalty to the west, and why Myanmar cannot fall to the west. Period. Suu Kyi may be a saint but she is still a western pawn in Myanmar -- her husband Michael Aris is clearly connected to the very top of the UK establishment, and she is the last chance for the UK to gain a foothold in Myanmar, and hence all the hurry to do a "regime change" in Myanmar.

Some of the junta are despicable methamphetamine-dealing thugs and murderers, but taking them out right now will set Myanmar in flames, which is exactly the intent of those in the west who want to "help" by sending in "aid workers" right now, and cannot be bothered to just hand over their "aid" and get out. These ex-colonial rat ba$tards in France, US and elsewhere need to remember that this is the 21st century and their dickhead colonial-era behavior is not acceptable.

Currently its chinese pawn so that better alternative? Like it or not myanmar is dictatorship ruled by chinese puppet government. Reports from Thailand indicate the Myanmar generals did not even know about catastrophe till ambassador told them on the phone and urged them to act. There does not necessarily have to be regime change just opening up the economy similar to what we saw in Vietnam, where we seen greater increase of Indian exports as well major improvement in GDP.

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Postby Tilak » 11 May 2008 21:52

John wrote:Currently its chinese pawn so that better alternative?


US should should strengthen India's hand "first" rather than try to pull of a zero-sum game between India and China, meanwhile strengthening it's own independent foothold in "Burma", to counterbalance it's neigbours.

If Myanmar doesn't tip the status-quo, vis-a-vis India and China. Why would I want another strong pan-atlantic player at the table to deal with ?. May be I'm being too conservative in my outlook (two monkeys fight for a loaf of bread, the third(arbiter) keeps nibbling away at it), but I would love to hear others opinions.

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India should show a way ahead

Postby joshvajohn » 11 May 2008 21:52

Let me divert a bit and then come back to my point in relation to Myanmar!

I think India has been a kind of ideal democratic country in spite of her limitations, problems and drawback. For example in Nepal we were involved in getting the democratic process on and thus got the Maoist elected for ruling the country. In spite of Maoist attitude towards India and also their narrow mentality towards liberalisation, Indians must be happy in establishing democratic set up in this small Hindu nation. Without a war or much of conflicts (though Maoists have struggled for a bit of time) this democratic process has been established soon with the involvement of Indian government. It shows that Indians have got the diplomatic ability to solve the problems and conflicts in a peaceful manner. (It needs to be celebrated!!!)

If we do have a similar approach towards Myanmar in persuading them to move towards democratic process by showing them all the essential contributions of the process, I think there is a big possibility of change there too! I know Chinese are scared of democratic forces around them and so would rather have dictators who would not make their country developed both in terms of wealth, power and international relationship. In this sense they (PRC) would go to any extent to support such dictators. But if India gets involved in both persuading the Myanmarise saying we will help the nation to be build with education and investment and other areas of development with the skills and linguistic specialists. India can throw support of many parties rather than a single party system of power as many tribal communities are also involved in Myanmar.

Such a kind of strategic plan and move would certainly help Myanmar on the one hand and also India's relationship with her neighbours on the other. In case of war they will not certainly take side with anyone and remain neutral which itself is essential for India safety and security.

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Postby Rye » 12 May 2008 00:56

Tilak wrote:
If Myanmar doesn't tip the status-quo, vis-a-vis India and China. Why would I want another strong pan-atlantic player at the table to deal with ? May be I'm being too conservative in my outlook (two monkeys fight for a loaf of bread, the third(arbiter) keeps nibbling away at it), but I would love to hear others opinions.


Tilak,

Exactly the reason to keep US/UK/SuuKyi from acquiring control of Myanmar without appearing to do so.

IMO, that is the correct view, and would not be surprised if that was the logic behind GoI's Myanmar policy (going by their recent actions in the news). Hopefully, weak-minded nonsense about forming coalitions with outside powers (not including China and Russia)will not be considered by GoI at any point before total long-term stability of Myanmar in the long term is achieved.

I agree with joshvajohn's overall approach in turning the average burmese towards India in the long term, and I hope India-Myanmar relations move in that direction. One thing is for sure, western involvement/interference will not get India to the place we need to be.
Last edited by Rye on 12 May 2008 02:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Rye » 12 May 2008 02:18

To clarify, it is a different matter if *native* Myanamerese administration run by natives is already in place to administer the place -- there would be no danger in "regime changes" under such a scenario. However, the Myanmar Junta is only starting to learn ropes of running a country, and there is no denying that Myanmar is currently badly managed, but that is due to the lack of natives with a reasonable and educated worldview that work for the junta. Counterintuitively, this institution needs to be made more competent, until there is a sufficient force of Myanmarese who have the skills to bring democracy to Myanmar, befor that local capability can sustain itself under a democratic regime. Bringing civil war to Myanmar on a large scale is NOT the way to achieve this.

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Postby Rye » 12 May 2008 02:28

John wrote:

There does not necessarily have to be regime change just opening up the economy similar to what we saw in Vietnam, where we seen greater increase of Indian exports as well major improvement in GDP.


John,

That is a very good idea, and I hope India-Mynamar business increases a 100 fold than where it is today.

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Postby Nayak » 12 May 2008 06:43

Canada wants to exercise the option of sending aid via India/China/Thailand.

A good idea. Myanmar junta trusts us. We can deliver the aid on their behalf.

Though the junta is not very smart I agree with their decision of not allowing these foreign aid workers on their soil.

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Postby Rupak » 12 May 2008 07:32

Anyone who thinks the the SLORC or Myanmarese Junta is a 'chinese' or indeed anyone's pawn has no understanding of the country at all or has never met a Burman.

The SLORC are nobody's lackey. Indeed the Chinese are more detested in Myanmar than almost anywhere else. Remember the coup that removed Khin Nyut, for being too close to the Chicoms? The SLORC has played its card very well by balancing each of its neighbours by providing each with a stake in their survival without becoming overly reliant on anyone of them.

They have left themselves are wide berth for geo-strategic manuvering.

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Postby vivek_ahuja » 12 May 2008 08:14

Rupak wrote:Anyone who thinks the the SLORC or Myanmarese Junta is a 'chinese' or indeed anyone's pawn has no understanding of the country at all or has never met a Burman.

The SLORC are nobody's lackey. Indeed the Chinese are more detested in Myanmar than almost anywhere else. Remember the coup that removed Khin Nyut, for being too close to the Chicoms? The SLORC has played its card very well by balancing each of its neighbours by providing each with a stake in their survival without becoming overly reliant on anyone of them.

They have left themselves are wide berth for geo-strategic manuvering.


Indeed. Nicely put. Its basically a question of who's playing who and who thinks they are playing who, isn't it?

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Postby Skanda » 12 May 2008 09:33

Humanitarian access, R2P, Burma/Myanmar, and Sadr City
Much of the US media continues to parrot the accusatory, highly politicized "Laura Bush version" of what's been happening in Myanmar/Burma. Namely that (a) the country's military junta is largely responsible for the devastation that Cyclone Nargis has visited on the country, (b) the junta has responded very poorly to the disaster and is also wilfully standing in the way of international efforts to deliver relief to cyclone survivors, (c) the US military is uniquely qualified and positioned to deliver the needed in the very best way possible; and that therefore (d) the junta should simply stand aside and let the US and its western allies roam around the country fixing it all up.

(Like the Bushites "fixed up" New Orleans and the Mississippi Gulf Coast after Katrina? Do these people have so little awareness of how arrogant the US looks to the rest of the world?)

Well, there is little point right now in delving too deeply into proposition "a" there, though as I wrote Tuesday, Mrs. Bush's accusations on that score were extremely mean-spirited and over-stated.

On proposition 'b', it is simply not true at this point that the junta responded to the cyclone with zero effectiveness. See, for example, this UN-OCHA report from Sunday May, 4. It says,

6. The Government has established an Emergency Committee headed by the Prime Minister. Five central and southern regions – Yangon, Ayeyarwady, Bago, Mon and Kayin states – have all been declared disaster areas. The authorities ... have deployed military and police units for rescue, rehabilitation and cleanup operations in Yangon.

7. No formal request has yet been issued for international assistance, though there are indications that such assistance may be welcomed...

On Tuesday came this news release from the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, which says,

The International Federation is supporting the Myanmar Red Cross in their efforts to address the needs of the affected people. The Myanmar Red Cross is already handing out relief supplies, such as clean drinking water, plastic sheeting, clothing, insecticide-treated bed nets to help prevent malaria, and kitchen items. Additionally, the International Federation has sent a first deployment of shelter kits from Kuala Lumpur and has released an initial 200,000 Swiss francs (USD 189,000/€ 122,000) to support the Red Cross relief effort.

That is exactly what the IFRCS is supposed to do: to build on the strengths of the Red Cross societies that already exist in all countries, and to coordinate the provision of help from other countries' RC societies when it's needed. No need for Mrs. Bush to get all exercised about things.

Over the weekend, ASEAN and the UN had already started assembling damage assessment teams, and most members of those teams have now been deployed.

On Monday, the Government of Myanmar "invited World Vision, a US-based aid organization that's been working in the country for some years now, to provide assistance in the form of zinc sheets, tents, tarpaulins and medicine." That report from Monday also noted that,

World Vision assessment teams have been deployed to the hardest-hit areas to determine the most urgent needs. The agency is already providing clothing (sarongs and t-shirts) as well as tarpaulins and blankets to 100 households in the capital, along with 10,000 kg of rice and 7,000 liters of water.

Given that the Red Cross societies and some private groups like World Vision already (a) have a lot of experience in post-catastrophe relief and reconstruction, (b) already have networks of relationships with official and unofficial bodies inside Myanmar, and (c) have an often detailed familiarity with the country, and its social and physical infrastructure, it is hard to see why anyone should imagine the US military is "uniquely qualified" to deliver aid there? Some people speak of helicopter capabilities. But China, Thailand, and several other Myanmar neighbors have that-- and probably, have been using it already.

Unlike what many US pundits think, the US has no "special responsibility" to undertake even well-intentioned life-saving actions around the world... Is it hard for some US commentators to entertain the thought that bodies and governments other than the US and its western allies are equally well intentioned, and might sometimes actually far better positioned to undertake such actions?

So now, let us travel to the worsening, and woefully under-reported humanitarian disaster in the Sadr City area of Baghdad-- a place where under international humanitarian law the US, as occupying power, does have direct responsibility for the welfare of the country's residents.

These past few days, the US military and its allies from the increasingly isolated Iraqi "government" side have stepped up their assault on a large section of Sadr, trapping many of the area's 2.5 million residents in their homes and neighborhoods, which are being harshly fought over by, on one side, the US forces and their allies, and on the other, local militiamen loyal to Imam Moqtada al-Sadr.

The fighting has been hell for the residents of Sadr City, particularly those in the areas near the "front line" newly established by the US forces.

This Reuters report from Baghdad tells us that,

Civilians caught up in fighting between security forces and Shi'ite militiamen in a Baghdad slum are running out of food, water and medicine and relief agencies are unable to bring in supplies, officials said on Thursday.

That report also quotes some Sadr City residents as saying that the Iraqi government has taken a leaf out of the playbook that Israel followed many times in Lebanon (and also, some 60 years ago in Palestine), and tried to send loudspeaker trucks around some neighborhoods to tell residents that they should leave their homes... presaging a possible big new military offensive there.

But here is something else notable, from the Reuters report: a quote from Dana Graber Ladek, a displacement specialist on Iraq at the U.N. International Organisation for Migration (IOM) in Amman, who seemed to be saying that the US and Iraqi-government forces in Sadr City were among those forces preventing the opening of safe corridors by which humanitarian aid could be delivered, and civilians find a safe way to exit if they so chose. Ladek said

"We need that corridor open to allow aid in, by U.S. and Iraqi forces ... by everyone involved in the conflict."

The German press agerncy DPA reports that the fighting that has occurred since the US started its push into Sadr City at the end of March has killed around 1,000 people, and wounded over 2,500, many of them children and other civilians.

Well-meaning people in the US who are concerned about the harms being suffered by our fellow-humans around the world would do well to pay a lot more attention to stopping the harms that have arisen directly out of our own government's actions around the world, rather than continuing to point fingers at other governments?

... I note also that some people have said that the situation in Myanmar could be a good example where the UN's recently adopted doctrine of "Responsibility To Protect" (R2P) could be valid. The well-informed and always thoughtful Ramesh Thakur had a good response on that point in today's Toronto Globe & Mail.

Thakur, we should note, was one of the members of the UN's R2P Commission, so he certainly knows whereof he speaks.

That link given there goes to a pay-gated version of Thakur's op-ed. His argument there is this:

humanitarian aid does not justify going to war as called for by French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner in urging the UN Security Council to pass a resolution under the "responsibility to protect" norm to force the delivery of aid over any objections from the country's ruling military.

Mr. Kouchner is one of the unrepentant "humanitarian warriors" who gave "humanitarian intervention" such a bad name that we had to rescue the deeply divisive idea and repackage it into the more unifying and politically marketable "responsibility to protect" (R2P) which was endorsed by world leaders at the UN in 2005. There would be no better way to damage R2P beyond repair in Asia and the developing world than to have humanitarian assistance delivered into Myanmar backed by Western soldiers fighting in the jungles of Southeast Asia again. If France has soldiers to spare for serious combat, they could relieve embattled Canadians in southern Afghanistan.

John Holmes, the former British ambassador to France, has rightly rejected Mr. Kouchner's call as unnecessarily confrontational. He said co-operation from Myanmar authorities was "reasonable and heading in the right direction."

Thakur warns that trying to invoke an R2P-based, "right" of foreigners to intervene in Myanmar by force and against the wishes of the national government would have this effect: "Instead of securing timely action, it would complicate humanitarian relief efforts in this particular case and more generally afterward."

He made clear he was not defending the rights record of the Myanmar government. But he also laid out a sensible plan for how the "international community": (whatever that is, these days) might most effectively respond to the situation there. Not surprisingly, his program depends a lot more on Myanmar's neighbors than on any very expensive, complicated, and imperialistic intervention from the distant European or US governments.

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Postby Nayak » 12 May 2008 16:00

Anger mounts in Bangkok at Myanmar aid visa delays

By Ed Cropley

BANGKOK (Reuters) - A furious rescue worker accused Myanmar's military junta on Monday of crimes against humanity for refusing to fast-track visas for aid officials desperate to enter the country to help the 1.5 million survivors of Cyclone Nargis.

"They say they will call, but it's always wait, wait, wait," Pierre Fouillant of the Comite de Secours Internationaux, a French disaster rescue agency, told Reuters after being turned away from the former Burma's embassy in the Thai capital.

"I've never seen delays like this, never," said Fouillant, a veteran of 10 humanitarian disasters. "It's a crime against humanity. It should be against the law. It's like they are taking a gun and shooting their own people."

Like dozens of others, Fouillant applied on Thursday for a business visa, his only option since the military-ruled and isolated southeast Asian nation has no such thing as an "emergency aid" visa.

The embassy was closed on Friday for a Thai government holiday, and was locked shut on Saturday and Sunday. It opened as normal on Monday morning.

At least 100,000 people are thought to have died in the May 2 cyclone and storm surge in the Irrawaddy delta, a death toll that could rise dramatically if survivors do not get access to food, clean water and medicine in the next few days, experts say.

Reuters witnesses on the edges of the disaster zone say towns and villages are being swamped by huge numbers of cyclone refugees and cannot cope.

There is virtually no government assistance and food is running out. Some residents say they are afraid the desperate evacuees will be forced to turn to looting.

FRUSTRATION

Against this backdrop, small groups of rescue workers are having to wait outside the iron-spiked, grey walls of the embassy compound in Bangkok while their leaders and local visa agents try to see if their applications have got anywhere.

"It is very frustrating," said Australian firefighter Craig Allan, who dropped everything at home to get to Bangkok and apply for a visa on Thursday.

His agency, part of Baptist World Aid, is called "Rescue 24" as it is meant to be able to put a team on the ground within 24 hours of any disaster anywhere in the world. In this case, it might be 24 days, he joked bleakly.

The U.N. says it has been promised three World Food Programme visas to be issued on Monday evening, and a handful of aid workers are getting visas at Myanmar embassies elsewhere around the world.

Some ordinary people are applying for tourist visas simply because they want to check on friends living in a country that still has an ability to cast a spell over visitors despite -- some might say because of -- its military government.

"I went there once as a tourist and fell in love with the place," said one American student who had flown in from Los Angeles. He said he had many Burmese friends from a year teaching English and learning Burmese in the former capital, Yangon.

"I just want to check my friends are OK and see what I can do," the student said. He did not want to give his name in case it jeopardized his application. "They said come back in four days. I'll just keep my fingers crossed," he said.

Before the cyclone struck, it took just 24 hours to process a tourist visa.

Patrick Michaudel, a French employee of medical services company SOS International, with clinics in Yangon, was almost in tears as he left the embassy at the end of a fruitless week-long wait for a visa.

When he got to the front of the queue, Michaudel was elated to see his passport open on the desk with a visa inside.

He could only watch in horror as a female official then carefully peeled the visa sticker out of his passport and crudely covered up the partial stamp on the passport page with liquid paper.

"No reason, no reason. She just peeled it out," he said, with a shrug of the shoulders. "I've had enough of this. I'm going home."

(Writing by Ed Cropley; Editing by Darren Schuettler)

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Postby Rye » 13 May 2008 09:15

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Its basically a question of who's playing who and who thinks they are playing who, isn't it?


vivek,

It seems like Indo-Myanmar relationship currently has clear quid pro quos, so I am not sure either party is playing the other. The Myanmar regime is focussed on staying in power and they have ensured that every neighbour has a stake in the regime's stability. (I do not agree with people here calling the SLORC stupid..that they certainly are not.)

India's NE situation is still a work-in-progress, if we go by news reports, so destabilizing Myanmar would end up destabilizing the NE. The other reason is that with BD becoming another Pakistan and refusing to cooperate with India, the road to those regions from Sittwe is another way to get Indian goods/trade both to the NE in a large scale (the land routes are not capable of high volumes of trade unlike via Sittwe by Ship).

JMTs

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Postby Neela » 13 May 2008 19:54

Noticed this with the British Bull$h1t Corporation.

- Initial reports on death toll 5000
- Following day 10000
- 2 days later 20000
- 1 week later 100000

And the claims for entry into Burma just got louder day by day.
With hardly any video footage. BBC is crooking up figures and stats out of the a$$es and creating a dday scenario.

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Postby John » 14 May 2008 23:50

^ Their estimates are closer to actual figures coming out, the region is far worse devastated than you can imagine check some of the footage from Thailand some are in Youtube.

The International Federation of Red Cross And Red Crescent Societies now estimates that the death toll in Burma from Cyclone Nargis is between 68,833 and 127,990.

"Latest assessment figures from Yangon give a more detailed picture of the catastrophic situation on the ground," the agency says in its latest situation report. "Pooling and extrapolating information from assessments from 22 organizations (including the MRCS/International Federation) in 58 townships indicates the number of people killed at between 68,833 and 127,990. It estimates the total affected population at between 1.64 million and 2.51 million.

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 15 May 2008 23:48

Myanmar asks India to send doctors

15 May 2008

NEW DELHI - Cyclone-hit Myanmar has asked neighbour India to send its army medical teams to assist relief operations in the junta-ruled country, an Indian official said Thursday.


An Indian Air Force transport aircraft is set to fly to Yangon on Saturday carrying a team of doctors and medical supplies, said the official who did not want to be identified.

Since Cyclone Nargis struck the southwest delta region on May 2 and 3, leaving up to 66,000 dead or missing, Myanmar's reclusive military rulers have accepted foreign aid but largely rejected international relief workers.

Foreign aid agencies say they are battling to provide vital food, shelter and water through the country's dilapidated infrastructure, but the junta has refused to budge on access, despite mounting international pressure.

So far, two Indian navy ships and five aircraft have delivered food, clothing, medicines and tents to Myanmar.

New Delhi has forged a close relationship with Myanmar's junta in recent years to tackle insurgent groups along their border, opposing calls for economic sanctions against the military-ruled nation.

On why the Myanmar regime opted for Indian army medical teams, the Indian official said, "the response of the Indian army to disasters is time-tested and found to be very reliable, very dependable."

Link

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Postby Paul » 16 May 2008 02:20

Forward to friend
Myanmar Update: Relief Efforts to Reach 40,000 People in Hardest-Hit Areas

"The international Catholic community is now providing critical support for our local Catholic Church partners in Myanmar to save lives. Through them, we are able to reach people in some of the most devastated areas with urgent humanitarian assistance, including food, means for shelter, counseling, water and medical care."
—Ken Hackett, CRS president


Thank you for the generous outpouring of support we've received for those affected by Cyclone Nargis in Myanmar. These lifesaving donations have helped Catholic Relief Services support the Caritas Internationalis network in its response through local Church partners in Myanmar. With each passing day, we gain greater clarity on the magnitude of people's loss. Additional funds are urgently needed to help the most vulnerable survivors.

Initial relief efforts are expected to reach 40,000 people in two of the hardest-hit areas. To date, 26,000 people have received food and relief supplies. More than 100 local volunteers have been trained to play a critical role with assessments and logistics. Local Caritas Internationalis partners continue to procure food and shelter materials in Pathein and Yangon districts.

Official estimates of the death count are as high as 128,000, with another 2.5 million people in urgent need of assistance. Even worse, heavy rains are expected through the weekend, exacerbating conditions for those without shelter. Soon, we may have to be on guard against the "second wave" of disaster that often follows this type of emergency: outbreaks of disease spread by mosquitoes and contaminated water.

Please donate now to help CRS provide relief to the thousands of families affected by this tragic disaster.

Donations to CRS will reach people in need in Myanmar. CRS will provide support through local, nongovernmental and trusted humanitarian partners on the ground. As the aid community receives more guidance on the capacity for relief efforts in the country, the Caritas Internationalis network will determine the most appropriate way to carry out relief efforts. We are committed to helping as much as we can given the constraints of the situation. If for any reason we raise more funds than we have the capacity to utilize in Myanmar, we are committed to using those funds to respond to other natural disasters in Southeast Asia.


Caritas Internationalis is a confederation of 162 Catholic relief, development and social service organizations working in over 200 countries and territories. Catholic Relief Services is a member of the Caritas network and is the international humanitarian agency of the Catholic community in the United States. The agency provides assistance to people in more than 100 countries and territories based on need, regardless of race, nationality or creed.


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Postby Karan Dixit » 16 May 2008 10:11

Ordinary Burmese step in to help storm victims

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/ ... mar16.html

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Postby sauravjha » 16 May 2008 16:09

ah,

see what newsweek is carrying this week.

the lord's wrath is about to befall the Junta.
essentially , NW feels that the Junta may become a casualty of the cyclonic storm.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/135929

scalar warfare , anyone?

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Postby sanjaychoudhry » 16 May 2008 16:13

sauravjha wrote:ah,

see what newsweek is carrying this week.

the lord's wrath is about to befall the Junta.
essentially , NW feels that the Junta may become a casualty of the cyclonic storm.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/135929

scalar warfare , anyone?


The behaviour of Anglo-Americans is akin to a bunch of feral dogs circling a wounded victim, looking for an opening. It is amazing to what extent their world policy is shaped to further the agenda of the church and helping it and the White man's agencies to get a foothold in virgin lands. They want to make a Philippines out of every pagan country in Asia.

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Postby sauravjha » 16 May 2008 16:38

Frankly speaking an unbroken EJ corridor running from Kayin to Kohima is being envisaged by some of these " I am going to suck the world dry" types

the strategy is excellent:

1.the oil majors get to drill for hydrocarbons.
2. the drug companies get the flora
3. and of course our friendly neighbourhood EJs get to harvest the souls

Everybody's happy except the Myanmarese people. what an Infallible strategy.

Rambo IV is actually a clear attempt to prepare the American people for an assault . so basically, if a democratic government comes to power in the U.S , we'll see "surgical strikes" against the Junta and once GOP returns , full scale invasion with regime change.

the "colour revolution" has of course been tried already . Maybe another attempt is in the offing . the Junta knows , which is why it doesn't want to let in "aid workers".

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Postby JE Menon » 17 May 2008 03:55

subterfuge and sabotage aimed at sustained destabilisation of the regime, maybe. Zero chance of any precise outcome oriented military action here...

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Postby sauravjha » 17 May 2008 04:18

yeah , I was just detailing the castles that some may be building in the air, even as we speak.

Of course the key difference from Iraq is the fact that Myanmar is neighboured by India and China , unlike Iraq which had Iran and Syria for succour. :P

Rambo or not the American people will definitely not back another war in a country that they probably can't locate on a map.

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Postby rocky » 17 May 2008 18:44

Americans, Canadians and Europeans (especially UK) are hankering for Myanmars blood following the cyclone. Moreover, elite toilet paper like CNN and Time are asking cute questions like "Is it time to invade Myanmar"!

India should call their bluff by offering to channelise all the foreign aid, materials and medicines through Delhi and Kolkata. That will show who is shedding crocodile tears.

Raju

Postby Raju » 17 May 2008 21:22

Just have a nagging feeling about this Myanmar cyclone and the very co-ordinated response by a flurry of western govts. Similar to the case in Tibet where the western govts all came together to harangue China. Something's fishy here.

Myanmar cyclone, China earthquake and Jaipur blasts need to be linked. Too much of a coincidence at work here.

10 mins before the quake in China, these peculiar cloud patterns were noticed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzVamNQzfYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMTSDzU1Z4

the first clip is 10 mins before the quake and 550 kms away from epicentre and the other clip is 30 mins and 450 kms away.

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Postby Rye » 17 May 2008 21:39

That may be connecting dots that should not be connected.

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Postby Sonugn » 17 May 2008 21:45

Myanmar cyclone, China earthquake and Jaipur blasts need to be linked. Too much of a coincidence at work here

HAARP :)

Raju

Postby Raju » 17 May 2008 21:47

Rye ji,
No.

Nothing should be ruled out even if it is not official. If we work only what is within official domain, then dots will remain unconnected. If there is such a tool available for manipulation of certain variables, it will surely be used for such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkLTzesBxGE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi1nLmlicxU

And frankly I am not willing to enter into any long-winded argument over this. Those people who are inclined to consider this possiblity can consider. If anyone if uncomfortable with it, then that is alright as well.

Raju

Postby Raju » 17 May 2008 21:52

Sonugn wrote:
Myanmar cyclone, China earthquake and Jaipur blasts need to be linked. Too much of a coincidence at work here

HAARP :)


yes,

Monks tried to create trouble in Myanmar once before. An orange revolution was attempted, now coming so close to its heels is a cyclone. And suddenly all of the western world gets aggressive on Myanmar in an almost planned co-ordinated political assault on it.

China which is placed at the foremost to help out Myanmar surprisingly suffers a huge earthquake diverting its disaster relief mechanism totally to that region.

India warned off with a mere blast. MMS refuses to blame Pakistan for the Jaipur blast.

It's too much of a coincidence. Have I said this before, I do not believe in coincidences.

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Postby Karan Dixit » 18 May 2008 01:38

If people in U.S. have such a strong desire to do the humanitarian work then they can certainly start with Tibet. Tibet is in desperate need of US help. Why ignore Tibet and then focus on Myanmar? Is abundance of Oil & Natural Gas in Myanmar the reason for new found love for Burmese people?

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Postby rsingh » 18 May 2008 02:32

Raju wrote:Just have a nagging feeling about this Myanmar cyclone and the very co-ordinated response by a flurry of western govts. Similar to the case in Tibet where the western govts all came together to harangue China. Something's fishy here.

Myanmar cyclone, China earthquake and Jaipur blasts need to be linked. Too much of a coincidence at work here.

10 mins before the quake in China, these peculiar cloud patterns were noticed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzVamNQzfYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMTSDzU1Z4

the first clip is 10 mins before the quake and 550 kms away from epicentre and the other clip is 30 mins and 450 kms away.


Same as auroras on ploes. This could be due to sudden change in magnetic field........due to major displacement in mass that causes Earth-qucks. Reptiles and birds feel vibration and change in electromagnetic patterns. Same phenomena is responsible for self-switching-on of tubelights right before a major earthquake. Birds and fishes are known to loose orientation. Periodic mass suicide by fishes that are found on beaches has been attributed to undersea quakes.

Raju Guru......there is limit to the imagination. I laughed for hour. Have you heared about rense.com........it is for guys like you.

Raju

Postby Raju » 18 May 2008 09:41

Fine rsingh, the likes of me lack credibility in your eyes. Then just take a look at the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary in the next post. Are they also talking loosely and letting their imagination run wild.

On simple googling of keywords ionosphere, earthquake .. the very first search result returns an article that says earthquake disturbs ionosphere. So if earthquake can disturb the ionosphere then can disturbing ionosphere also create an earthquake ?

Now for a minute let us consider the possibility it does, then doesn't it make sense to keep such a technology under wraps. If it is open knowledge then there is START, NPT-like treaties that curb its use. Because if it is made public then it also loses its effectiveness as a weapon.

Trust the human narrative chaudhry sahab, when so many people are saying the same thing. Atleast it requires a second glance no. What the modern media has convinced us is how to make fun of the human narrative and treat it as inconsequential and random ramblings.

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Postby Rye » 18 May 2008 09:48

deleted. pointless.
Last edited by Rye on 18 May 2008 09:53, edited 1 time in total.

Raju

Postby Raju » 18 May 2008 09:52

http://home.iitk.ac.in/~ramesh/Ruzhin%20Yu.Ya.doc
http://solar-center.stanford.edu/SID/ed ... uakes.html
http://www.gisdevelopment.net/aars/acrs ... ts3008.asp

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote]Bertell Reveals Many New Weapons of Mass Destruction

by nuclearfreenz@lynx.co.nz
Larry Ross, February 28, 2005

The book is: “Planet Earth the Latest Weapons of Warâ€

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Postby sauravjha » 18 May 2008 15:14

Tempted as I am , to help you turn this thread into a clone of a discussion on ATS , I think the Indo-Myanmar thread should be kept free from discussions on Teslaesque weapons.


On a related note , what happened to that thread on Beam Weapons?
we could start a discussion on Scalar warfare there I guess?

Raju

Postby Raju » 18 May 2008 15:31

>>Tempted as I am , to help you turn this thread into a clone of a discussion on ATS

don't become a conspiracy theorist.

btw the posts here are not to provoke a discussion. Just to crack open the door slightly, to provoke thoughts on the subject as a possibility. Discussion can take place when the stigma of conspiracy is lifted from the topic, even if it might be a bit late then.

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Postby sauravjha » 18 May 2008 15:36

don't become a conspiracy theorist.

I have no intention to. what i am saying is, BR has often discussed slightly tangential stuff , and threads like Beam Weapons have existed for that very purpose . so "thought provoking " stuff can be posted on such a thread instead of here . In any case last post on this issue.


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