India-Myanmar news and discussion

[Raju]

It was irony my dear.

[sauravjha]

[Rye]

deleted OT

[Raju]

ok I will try, but try not to make fun of it.

Take a small magnetic ball/rock and a few pieces of paper. Now coat the pieces of paper with a magnetic paint so that they cling around this ball. The piece of paper that clings innermost is most attracted towards the core magnetic ball and the ones outside have a more tenuous attachment.

Consider this earth.

Now throw this ball with force and the outermost layer will most likely peel off first because its magnetism is the weakest and the innermost might still cling to the core magnet.

How does the earth circumvent this problem.

In the giant electromagnetic sea that is the universe, the electromagnetic field all around us (felt particularly outside the ionosphere) keep all the planetary bodies constantly in motion. Some have a weaker magnetic core and some have a stronger magnetic core. This is called the magnetosphere. This reverse magnetic charge generated from the interior, possibly the core of the planet gives an opposite charge and creates a magnetic field and makes planet rotate as a result, but also ensures that nearing planetary bodies do not collide with each other while they revolve.

Earth's stronger magnetosphere ensures life on earth and keeps the structural integrity of the earth intact.

If the magnetosphere is disturbed then the pieces of paper or the earth's plates which is held together by the magnetosphere will also be distrubed or misaligned. It could also make it dangerous when nearing planetary bodies could collide with earth because earth's effective shield itself is compromised.

So if there are ways and means to tamper with this magnetosphere/ionosphere in a small select area preferably over a fault line by disfiguring it, viz by heating it or tampering with it, then that fault will be compromised causing an earthquake.

[Rye]

deleted OT

[Raju]

The mathematics will be known only if we ourselves send missions outside the ionosphere and do experiments there. Until then we have to trust the Russians and Americans who have and continue to conduct experiments in the space.

And going by reports online both of them have programs to tamper with ionosphere. So how do we trust their mathematics ?

[Rye]

deleted OT

[Raju]

those who have experimented will suitably modify/tweak their laws without informing others.

[Rye]

deleted OT

[JE Menon]

This thread is about India-Myanmar... Guys stop the OT discussion.

[rsingh]

Raju Sir, Rye Bhai and others. This debate is too important to be killed at this stage. I am posting on this in Nukkad thread.

[vsudhir]

Junta says it will allow all aid workers into Myanmar

[Rye]

Responsibility to protect

[niran]

Junta: Myanmar cyclone claimed 1,250,194 chickens, 136,804 buffaloes

Bangkok - Cyclone Nargis killed 1,250,194 chickens and 136,804 water buffaloes and 10.7 billion dollars in rehabilitation work will be required, such as building embankments around villages in Myanmar's Irrawaddy delta, an aid agency revealed Saturday.

Those were some of the somewhat 'bizarre' statistics revealed at a government presentation held in Yangon on Thursday for 200 foreign delegations invited to help the ruling regime amass aid on Sunday for disaster relief and rehabilitation of areas hard hit by the cyclone which swept over the country's central coast on May 2-3, said Penny Lawrence, international director for Oxfam, who attended the conference.

any comments would be superfluous IMVVHHO

[Tilak]

Myanmar seeks Saarc membership
May 20th, 2008 - 10:34 am

Dhaka, May 20 (IANS) Myanmar has formally requested membership of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (Saarc). Its bid has the support of India, the current chair, a newspaper here said quoting unnamed diplomatic sources. Yangon had officially written to the Saarc Secretariat in March, seeking to become a full member, the New Age reported Tuesday. The matter may come up before the 15th Saarc Summit due to be held July 27-Aug 3 in Colombo.

If admitted, Myanmar would be the ninth member of a body that was initially conceived in the mid-1980s as a grouping of seven - Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Maldives. Afghanistan became its eighth member last year.

Myanmar is already a member of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean).

Ruled by a military junta, it has faced international criticism for long for suppressing democratic forces and imprisoning its best known politician, Nobel laureate Ayung San Suu Kyi.

The regime is currently planning its second round of a vote in a referendum that seeks to give the military a permanent, institutionalised role in the country’s governance.

Apart from Myanmar, Australia has also written to the Saarc Secretariat for an observer status.

The US, European Union, South Korea, China, Japan, Iran and Mauritius now enjoy the status of observer in the South Asian grouping.

[vsudhir]

Maynmar's seeking SAARC full-membership could be a good move for India.

In the longer term, I believe (IMVVHO onlee) that both Nepal and Myanmar must be integrated into the Indian sphere of influence throuagh a conferederation (ok, call it by a different name if that makes things easier) style pan-national administrative mechanism. This would include tight economic integration (perhaps even a single currency), visa-free travel and of course, free movement of capital, goods and labor. Sad to see TSPians making these noises (from Nawaz to Zardari) but Delhi seemingly silent on the Nepal and Burma front.

JMTPs etc.

[Rye]

vsudhir, completely agreed about the whole confederation thingy...this is what Kissinger has recently been calling"the death of the notion of a nation state". EU is already there, (India is already a EU-type country, as is China) but India's neighbourhood has two large problems: Pakistan and Bangladesh.

[Tilak]

In the longer term, I believe (IMVVHO onlee) that both Nepal and Myanmar must be integrated into the Indian sphere of influence throuagh a conferederation

For the above India needs to have a parallel mechanism/grouping with Nepal,Myanmar, Bhutan,Thailand, (Cambodia, and even Vietnam later on) exclusively, to safeguard the eastern flank.

IMHO.. Visa-Free travel is easy to talk about, but very hard to implement, in the very near future (another can of worms), for that first the security situation has to improve. The objectives should be fixed, and not pan across a whole gamut of issues the ones SAARC is overburdened with (addressing issues of failing states). Security(Terrorism/Insurgencies) and Economic Integration (BIMSTEC), to start with would be good IMO..

[Rye]

There needs to be a separate security and economic integration conference other than SAARC that has no observers --- Pakistan and Bangladesh not invited...they are working for the enemies of peace and security in the region. SAARC is useless because of Pakistan and Bangladesh who act as perennial spoilers aided and abetted by their friends across the seas.

[Tilak]

There needs to be more focus on BIMSTEC, than SAARC. If BD is not willing to tag along, let them not. I will come off as "coarse" by some, but I believe Religious issues, are being a drag on current setups, especially due to history of Subcontinent. In light of the above, it would be great to expand BIMSTEC, to include Cambodia, Vietnam.. Something akin to "Major-Non Bimstec Ally" (sematics onlee) or with promised full integration down the line..

[svinayak]

vsudhir, completely agreed about the whole confederation thingy...this is what Kissinger has recently been calling"the death of the notion of a nation state". EU is already there, (India is already a EU-type country, as is China) but India's neighbourhood has two large problems: Pakistan and Bangladesh.

That is not about confederation. It is about the transnational corporation which will define how international relations are defined. Also large social groups will define the relationship between nations.

[Rye]

Acharya wrote:

That is not about confederation.

An stable economic confederation of states is a precondition/pre-requisite before Skynet can proceed to take over confederacies.

Kissinger's remark was very much about economic integration as it was a self-serving remark to allow for "military intervention by the international community" to intervene "for the sake of humanity", like they tried to do in Myanmar recently.

[vsudhir]

Rye sahib, Acharya san,

Doesn't matter what Ki$$inger meant or didnt mean.

An economic confederation followed by a socio-politco tightening simply makes sense in the India-nepal and burma context. An FTA, followed by a unified mkt and common currency (or some halfway house measure) should be a possibility within 5 yrs.

India's democracy argument finally gathers steam in that neither Nepal nor Burma has anything to fear from Delhi's expansionism encraching onto their space. What they will give up will be explicit and voluntary only (but irreversible).

[Gerard]

US sets condition for aid: unhindered access

Myanmar must grant "unhindered access" to cyclone-devasated areas as a condition for receiving more American aid, a top U.S. official said Sunday.

[Victor]

Keep Myanmar aid process apolitical: India

[quote]“...when the international community was still in the process of getting its act together,"...India has already sent two ships and six aircraft carrying food, tents and medical supplies. Another Indian aircraft is expected to reach Myanmar next week with more relief material.

Two Indian medical teams, comprising 47 personnel, are currently in Pyapon and Bogale towns in the affected areas.

“They have been treating an average of more than 1,500 patients a day and their work has been greatly appreciated,â€

[Karan Dixit]

NEW DELHI: India will repair Myanmar’s famous Shwedagon Pagoda, or Golden Pagoda, which was damaged by cyclone Nargis on May 3. This offer was made during Sunday’s pledging conference where around 52 countries promised rehabilitation and reconstruction aid to Myanmar.

link

[joshvajohn]

As I highlighted before in this thread, I would like to reiterate the fact that Indian government should get involved a bit more to bring about democracy and development in this small but beautiful country -Myanmar. There should be a multiparty democracy as there is not much support for the opposition leader, though she may get a majority if there is an election. The tribal conflicts cannot be addressed unless more education, local development programmes and modernisation become part of the Burmese life in all over Myanmar rather than in a few concentrated places. The Chinese are not helpful and are not willing to enable the Myanmar to move forward towards a better development though Junta keeps a balance between powers. The Red army's intention to keep Myanmar underdeveloped is basically for strategic reasons otherwise they would have another democratically developed threat in their neighbourhood.
India should keep the pressure as she did in Bhutan and help Myanmar to develop their own people in a positive way by involving. Though Nepal is democratised the Communis elected are going to reverse the country into worse developed and thus blame India for their problems. In this way we need to learn that only a multiparty ruling can help Myanmar not to go to tribal conflicts rather towards a development. It needs at least 20 years for Myanmar to come to terms with development at all levels through democratic process. India has to show Myanmar youth and leaders to see our failures and grand successes of development through democratic processes. If Myanmar is democratised, developed, India will secure a strategic score by not letting it in favour of China.

[sanjaychoudhry]

Myanmar is fine as it is. If it is democratized with multiple parties, the Americans and the evangelist sharks will be the first ones to get in there to subvert the country and put a White man's poodle on the hot seat. One Noble Prize winner with British-born kids is already waiting to take over from the Junta. Let her wait. Nepal is a democracy now. Has it become pro-India?

America historically finds it very difficult to subvert hostile dictatorships (Cuba, North Korea, China, Vietnam) through the usual tactics of NGOs, conversions and triggering terrorist movements. That is why this chorus to introduce democracy there. Ever wondered why we never hear America push Saudi Arabia toward democracy, but only Burma? Don't fall in the trap of this democracy business orcehstrated by the White man.

[Nayak]

Who's in the Junta?

The mysterious generals who run Burma.
By Jacob Leibenluft
Posted Monday, June 2, 2008, at 6:17 PM ET
Who is this guy? Click image to expand.Who is this guy?

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates accused the military leaders of Burma of "criminal neglect" on Sunday for their reluctance to accept international aid after Cyclone Nargis. Reports on the comments by the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Guardian, and Reuters all mentioned the "junta" without actually naming its members. Who is in the Burmese military junta, anyway?

To the best of our knowledge, 11 generals. The inner workings of the junta, or ruling military council, are largely unknown, even among experts. But we do know that in a country with well over 100 different ethnic groups, the junta—officially known as the State Peace and Development Council—is made up entirely of Burman Buddhists serving as generals in the Tatmadaw, or armed forces. A roster of generals recently compiled by exile magazine Irrawaddy lists 11 senior members, although as recently as last year, the council numbered 12, and it had 19 members when it changed its name from the State Law and Order Restoration Council in 1997.

Not all junta members are equal, however: The three top figures in the SPDC are its chairman Than Shwe; his deputy, Maung Aye; and joint chief of staff Thura Shwe Mann. Than Shwe has been the top figure in the junta since 1992, when he replaced Saw Maung—the leader of a military coup four years earlier, who had begun describing himself as the reincarnation of an 11th-century king. But as the chairman reaches his mid-70s and has fallen into ill-health, his behavior has also been depicted as increasingly bizarre. In 2006, he abruptly moved the country's capital from Burma's largest city, Rangoon, to the remote town of Naypyidaw—reportedly on the advice of his astrologer.

Little is known about internal SPDC politics, but veteran Burma-watchers say that one of the more important dividing lines within the junta separates generals who were educated in the nation's top military schools and those who rose through the ranks. Than Shwe falls into the latter category—he began his career as a postal worker before embarking on a military career that eventually took him to the top of the army's psychological warfare unit. Vice-chair Maung Aye, on the other hand, was in the first class of the elite Defense Services Academy. Tensions between the two leaders reportedly came to a head last fall, when the so-called "Saffron Revolution" led by thousands of Buddhist monks called the junta's legitimacy into question. As in earlier crackdowns of Aung San Suu Kyi's pro-democracy supporters, Than Shwe is thought to have favored of a more hard-line approach than his deputy, who allegedly opposed the decision to shoot at the monks. The rift was so deep that some dispatches out of Burma suggested a coup against Than Shwe was imminent.

Part of the reason so much mystery surrounds the junta is that its members largely stay out of the public eye. Burma's interactions with the outside world—like its controversial membership in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations—are mostly carried out by lower-ranking Cabinet ministers who serve at the pleasure of the junta. (Than Shwe's meeting with U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon a couple of weeks ago was an exception.) Even within the country, SPDC members often keep a low profile, and their isolation has been blamed for the slow response to Cyclone Nargis. In fact, among the best glimpses of the junta is a leaked YouTube video of the wedding of Than Shwe's daughter to an army major—an event at which the couple reportedly received more than $50 million in gifts.

Got a question about today's news? Ask the Explainer.

Explainer thanks Mary Callahan of the University of Washington, Josef Silverstein, and David Steinberg of Georgetown University.

[Rye]

joshvajohn wrote:

It needs at least 20 years for Myanmar to come to terms with development at all levels through democratic process. India has to show Myanmar youth and leaders to see our failures and grand successes of development through democratic processes. If Myanmar is democratised, developed, India will secure a strategic score by not letting it in favour of China.

Perhaps Indians should focus more on the NE in the short term worrying about Myanmar. Bangladesh is yet to start behaving reasonably for India to start pretending that it has complete control of the situation in the NE. The NE/Myanmar has to develop in multiple stages, depending on the whims of the Junta and in whatever pace it manages to develop to the benefit of the NE states.

[Stan_Savljevic]

India clears investment pact with Myanmar

[quote]
India’s cabinet cleared on Thursday the signing of a decade-long investment pact with military-ruled Myanmar, part of efforts to woo its energy-rich neighbour.

“The union cabinet gave its approval to the bilateral investment promotion and protection agreement with the government of Myanmar and its ratification,â€

[sanjaychoudhry]

The Junta shows US the middle finger and Unkil turns back from the shores wiht its tail between the legs. This is what I meant by Unkil being absolutely helpless before hostile dictatorships (even if they are banana republics). It cannot do anything at all except an outright invasion which has a very heavy cost attached to it. Expect Unkil to make a lot of noise now to introduce democracy in Burma, as a way to pry the country open so that NGOs and "charity" organisations etc. can be inserted to do their usual stuff of radicalising people against the state.

‘Mercy Fleet’ Surrenders to Than Shwe’s Iron Will

The US has ordered its four Pacific fleet warships, packed with supplies for Burma’s cyclone survivors, to end their fruitless wait for permission from the Burmese junta to join in the international relief mission.

The ships, headed by the aircraft carrier USS Essex, will head for neighboring Thailand from the position they have been maintaining for the past three weeks in international waters off the Burmese coast, the Pacific fleet commander, Adm Timothy J Keating, announced.

http://www.irrawaddy.org/article4.php?art_id=12524

[Karan Dixit]

YANGON, Myanmar - As individuals and aid agencies around the world dig into their pockets for funds to help Myanmar's cyclone victims, the country's ruling junta said Friday that such assistance from the United States could not be trusted.
ADVERTISEMENT

State media has previously said Myanmar feared Washington was using the cover of humanitarian aid to invade the country and steal its oil reserves.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_ ... myanmar_51

(It is unfortunate that Yahoo is using derogatory language towards Myanmaran spokesmen/media. Why can't Yahoo just report a news item without using language like "mouthpiece"? Very sad!)

[Karan Dixit]

India would also offer credit totalling 84 million dollars to Myanmar during a trip to the country by junior commerce minister Jairam Ramesh, who left for Myanmar Sunday on a four-day working visit, commerce ministry officials said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080622/wl ... 0622223338

[putnanja]

India to rebuild Sittwee port ahead of schedule

New Delhi, June 24 The Minister of State for Commerce and Power, Mr Jairam Ramesh, has said that India would complete the prestigious project of rebuilding and expanding the Sittwee port in the Arakan region of Myanmar on the Bay of Bengal in four years by 2012, one year ahead of the current estimated schedule.

Mr Ramesh, leading a high-level official delegation, on Monday visited the Sittwe port in Myanmar, which India is rebuilding and expanding as part of the Kaladan multimodal transit-cum-transport project, the agreement for which was signed between the two governments in New Delhi on April 2.
Project components

This project comprises four components: (i) rebuilding the infrastructure at Sittwe port; (ii) making the Kaladan river commercially navigable for a stretch of 225 km up to Kaletwa in Myanmar; (iii) building infrastructure at Kaletwa; and (iv) constructing a 62-km highway from Kaletwa to the India-Myanmar border in Mizoram.

Thus, the Kaladan project is of vital strategic importance to India since it provides an alternative access route to the north-east. The sea-distance between Kolkata and Sittwe is about 540 km.
Greater Connectivity

The project will also provide for greater connectivity between the north-east and Asean countries. Inland Waterway Authority of India (IWAI) is the project development consultant and the entire cost of around Rs 546 crore is being borne by the Government of India. Mr Ramesh said that an additional component of the project will be the highway connecting the border point in Mizoram to NH-54, for which the NHAI will take up the work as the Kaladan project commences.

Speaking at Sittwe, Mr Ramesh said that the IWAI has already received nine bids from reputed consulting firms for engagement as engineering consultants and the final choice will be made by the first week of September 2008, after which work on the Kaladan project will commence in full-swing, an official release issued here said.

[Kati]

Myanmar- another KLPD to the West (by India)


India, Myanmar ink 4 pacts

Press Trust of India, The Statesman, Kolkata, June 25, 2008

NEW DELHI, June 24: India will finance power transmission lines in Myanmar, with which it has also signed an investment protection agreement to boost economic ties.
India and Myanmar signed four agreements today at Naypyidaw, including regular banking arrangement for border trade.
The two countries have entered into a Bilateral Investment Promotion Agreement (BIPA) to encourage flow of funds. The trade pact with Myanmar is India's 71st BIPA agreement.
It provides a framework for resolution of disputes, promotion and protection of investment, extending national and Most Favoured Nation treatment, repatriation of investment and returns and entry and sojourn of technical and managerial personnel, an official statement said here.
The agreements were signed in Myanmar in the presence of minister of state for commerce and power, Mr Jairam Ramesh and Myanmar minister for national planning and economic development, Mr U Soe Tha.
Under another agreement, the Exim Bank of India would extend a credit line of $64 million to the Myanmar Foreign Trade Bank for three 230 kv transmission lines. The project would be executed by Power Grid Corporation of India.

[JE Menon]

Maybe not Kati. If you look deeper, wider and higher there is clearly an intent to push India against China here. I won't be least surprised if the US is behind this move as there are wheels within wheels. They want to break the string of pearls as it does not suit their plans for the Bay of Bengal. Remember where the Enterprise went in 1971, and don't forget Musharraf ran out of Bangladesh through Burma. Plus they are planning for Aung San to step up to the plate sooner or later. The recent quadrilateral exercises between India/US/Japan/Aus was just the barest hint of things to come... Foolish government is being led by its nose... It was all planned out, we are simply watching incapable to act.

[Raju]

>>Maybe not Kati. If you look deeper, wider and higher there is clearly an intent to push India against China here. I won't be least surprised if the US is behind this move as there are wheels within wheels.

finally you get something right.

At the beginning of this UPA govt it was about how KGB agents were all over the place in India.
But not a murmur about where the CIA agents were ?
Probably the KGB agents all over the place were keeping an eye on the CIA agents in office only.
Lately it's been all about China, how China is crossing the borders and how China is fingering in Sikkim.
Old stats are being presented as new ...
human chains are being formed.

[JE Menon]

Thanks boss. I always knew you would come around.

[Vick]

Man alive! If the US is this precient and has this much control over the affairs of India, who can resist this juggernaut? Resistance is futile, India will be assimilated!

I guess not a leaf falls anywhere without US dictation and approval.