Bangladesh News and Discussion

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Vipul » 16 Aug 2015 19:22

The ultimate Taqqiya act will be for BD with 160 Million Votes and Pakistan with 200 Million Votes express the need to join Mother India and then combining with another 180 Million Votes in India use the the ballot to unfurl the Green Flag on Red Fort.

Hasan Nissar had once on Live TV discussion quoting these figures expressed regret on the partition. Saying "agar yeh na hua hotha to aajh bade sagir ki tarikh kuch aur hoti". (Meaning History of the Sub Continent would have been different)

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 16 Aug 2015 19:57

RamaY wrote:
By the way, it's very cute of you to post inconsistent & mutually contradicting ideas in different threads... Is Taslima Nasreen referring the optimists as pseudo-secular Indians here?

A_Gupta wrote:Exiled Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen tweets:
taslima nasreen ‏@taslimanasreen Aug 10

ISIS has planned to take over India by 2020. Pseudo-secular Indians might say, Atithi Devo Bhava.


Well, I think Taslima Nasreen's tweet refers to those who think +108 Bangladesh should become a state of India, while simultaneously thinking that Bangladesh is definitely going to become another Pakistan and that Doval & Modi might go down in history as moorkhas. I think Bangladesh should show on its own, as an independent entity, that it defeats Islamists, prior to anything that goes beyond SAARC or BBIN-type relationships with India.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 16 Aug 2015 20:07

Dunno about Guha's arguments, but the only chance of an undivided India was along the lines of the Cabinet Mission Plan; and this article outlines, towards the end, what a disaster that would have been, had it been accepted.

https://sites.google.com/site/cabinetmi ... mp-my-take
followed by this:
https://sites.google.com/site/cabinetmi ... in-numbers

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 16 Aug 2015 20:20

A_Gupta wrote:
Well, I think Taslima Nasreen's tweet refers to those who think +108 Bangladesh should become a state of India, while simultaneously thinking that Bangladesh is definitely going to become another Pakistan and that Doval & Modi might go down in history as moorkhas. I think Bangladesh should show on its own, as an independent entity, that it defeats Islamists, prior to anything that goes beyond SAARC or BBIN-type relationships with India.


As usual twisting facts heh?

You brought Modi/Doval into the discussion claiming to know that they are optimists. I argued that they would go down in history as moorkhas IF they think they can achieve what the hundreds of Hindu kings/rulers didn't achieve by dong exactly same thing their predecessors did. Looks like you can't comprehend basic logic.

The 108ers are talking about taking BD & Paki territories back, not Muslims or Christians. The 108ers demand that BDs & Pakis are Gharwapasied before they can be given Indian Citizenship.

What is your position? Do you have any position on if Islam & Christianity have any value proposition to be included in Bharatiya civilization? Why can't you state your position clearly instead of hiding behind Sufi interpretations of Bgita?

Watch this speech by Subrahmanyam Swamy from 4M to 6M when he talks about Bangladesh!
http://youtu.be/1W92pXQ-4kE

The silliest part of whole Bangladesh saga is India went to war with Pakistan & liberated Bangladesh when Pakis killed few hundred thousand Muslims & forced 10m BDs into India. Yet, the same "optimists" don't want to bomb Bangladesh to Stone Age when the same BDs killed/converted few million Hindus & forced 20-30m BDs into India since 1971. In otherwords, the "optimists" in India respond only when Muslims are persecuted, not Hindus.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 17 Aug 2015 16:34

http://www.thedailystar.net/country/ind ... esh-128266
India hands over memorabilia of INS Vikrant to Bangladesh
India today handed over to Bangladesh the memorabilia of Indian Naval aircraft carrier INS Vikrant, which made its mark in India-Bangladesh history during the 1971 Liberation War, for showcasing at the National War Museum.

The INS Vikrant of Indian Navy played a decisive role during the Liberation War of 1971.

It played a key role in the operations in Chittagong and Cox’s Bazar area in the then East Pakistan, playing a key role in ending the 1971 war.

Indian High Commissioner to Bangladesh Pankaj Saran handed over the memorabilia of INS Vikrant to Chief of Naval Staff of Bangladesh Navy Vice Admiral M Farid Habib. A bridge window frame with a photograph of the ship and one set of Ceremonial Lifebuoy were handed over at a ceremony held at Naval Headquarters in Dhaka, said a press release.

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had earlier handed over three artefacts – Steering Wheel, Bridge Window Frame (with Photograph of Vikrant) and Lifebuoy Stand – to Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina during his visit to Dhaka on June 6-7, 2015.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 17 Aug 2015 16:56

^^^ I accept Constitution-Smriti. As simple as that. (PS: to be clear, what is relevant to a Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is Rajya Dharma, and I am with PM Modi when he says: "so far as the government is concerned, there is only one holy book, which is the Constitution of India." My personal dharma is not public business.)

Yes, Islam and Christianity are now parts of Indian civilization, value proposition or not.

What happens to Bangladesh in the very long run - who knows? I'm talking about the next 20-30 years.

India is not going to drive non-ghar-wapasied Bangladeshis into the sea. Nor is India going to bomb Bangladesh into the stone age. This is even if Bangladesh succumbs to Pakistani-type Islam.

You don't think Bangladesh can avoid becoming another Pakistan, but then after that some miracle will happen and you can ghar-wapasi them; it would be easier to do if the optimists' view came true. Right now what is the chance of ghar-wapasi-ing a single Pakistani? Much easier to stop the LoC firing from Pakistan than to ghar-wapasi a single one of them.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Arjun » 17 Aug 2015 17:54

A_Gupta wrote:Islam and Christianity are now parts of Indian civilization, value proposition or not.

Yes, like Hinduism is part of Western civilization I guess.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Abhay_S » 18 Aug 2015 06:16

Genetic Engineering in East Pakistan

http://tribune.com.pk/story/405014/genetic-engineering-in-east-pakistan/?utm_content=buffer8cca9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


Pakistan’s name has been blackened by just one man: General AAK ‘Tiger’ Niazi. According to a new book by Oxford University Press, he is supposed to have pronounced the words that even Genghis Khan would have hesitated to use: that he would let loose his soldiers on the women of East Pakistan till the lineage/ethnicity of the Bengali race was changed.

The account has come from a true son of Pakistan, late Major-General (retd) Khadim Hussain Raja in his recently published book A Stranger in My Own Country: East Pakistan, 1969-1971 (OUP, 2012). The book is posthumously published probably because it was a hot potato in the times it was actually written. He was General Officer Commanding 14 Division in East Pakistan.

General Ayub Khan, whose decade of rule caused the jurisprudence of separatism to evolve, gets the treatment he deserved through the testimony of another not-too-civilised general named Gul Hassan:

“Gul Hassan openly criticised Field Marshal Ayub Khan’s sons who, according to him, were letting their father down by amassing wealth by unfair means. Gul Hassan blurted out that ‘I have told the old cock that this time we will impose Martial Law and take control ourselves but not protect Ayub and his henchmen’. The reference [old cock] was to General Yahya Khan, Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan Army” (p.8).

General Yahya Khan, who took over from Ayub was not what the doctor would have ordered for East Pakistan. The only leadership criterion was brutality riding on low IQ. The exception was General Yaqub Khan, the commander who insisted that General Yahya not postpone the session of the National Assembly elected after the 1970 election.

The author writes: “All of a sudden, General Yaqub Khan was bundled off as a student on the Imperial Defence College course. This clumsy and unceremonious action was obviously taken to get him out of the way” (p.7).

Commander East Pakistan, General Tikka Khan, disagreed with Raja that Sheikh Mujibur Rahman be secretly despatched to West Pakistan. He wanted to “publicly try Sheikh Mujib in Dhaka and hang him” (p.93).

Major-General Rahim Khan was the other officer Pakistan can’t be proud of: “Rahim started to criticise the senior commanders in Dhaka, especially me, although I happened to be a friend of his. He was of the opinion that the Bengalis were timid people and should have been subdued long ago. The reader can judge for himself the ignorance and lack of understanding of the East Pakistan situation among the hawks in the armed forces” (p.97). Rahim ran away from East Pakistan when things became too hot.

We come to the climax: “[Enter] Commander East Pakistan General Niazi, wearing a pistol holster on his web belt. Niazi became abusive and started raving. Breaking into Urdu, he said: Main iss haramzadi qaum ki nasal badal doon ga. Yeh mujhe kiya samajhtey hain. He threatened that he would let his soldiers loose on their womenfolk. There was pin drop silence at these remarks. The next morning, we were given the sad news. A Bengali officer Major Mushtaq went into a bathroom at the Command Headquarters and shot himself in the head” (p.98).

Niazi also asked Raja for phone numbers of his Bengali girlfriends: “Abhi tau mujhey Bengali girlfriends kay phone number day do” (p.99). Niazi surrendered to Indian General JFR Jacob in 1971. ‘Tiger’ Niazi handed over his personal pistol at the famous Race Course ceremony. Jacob examined the weapon: the lanyard was greasy and frayed, and the pistol was full of muck as if it hadn’t been cleaned in a long while. (Surrender at Dacca: Birth of a Nation; by Lt. Gen JFR Jacob; Manohar Publishers 1997).

Published in The Express Tribune, July 8th, 2012.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 18 Aug 2015 06:32

In Pakistan thread Modi/Doval are evil chanikyans who are willing to punch proportional to (whose? Hindustan or Modi's) weight even claim to have very little place for morality.

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ Please to see this
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1886993
Excerpt:
Doval made two interesting observations that reflect in many ways the changed thinking of the Indian establishment. One, weak states invite trouble and hence, to demonstrate one is a strong state, one must not hesitate to exercise power. Two, there is little place for morality in international affairs.


The same Modi/Doval are optimists who are willing to punch well below forum-WKK's weight when it comes to BD. Is it 108ers fault to ask a tiny amount of intellectual honesty from you sire?...

One claims to have understood SufiGita but doesn't understand the difference between Dharma-Shastra (Smriti) and Holypooks. I can only blame the guru of SufiGita.

Islam & Christianity are part of Indian Civilization :rotfl: But that very optimist Doval proclaimed "The civilizational history of Kashmir (naturally whole Bharat) belongs to Hindus alone". We have a proverb in Telugu which translates to "jump into a spoonful of water and drown"!

Like the #Presstitutes, it is in forum-WKKs habit to :(( GENOCIDE :(( whenever a someone suggests Gharwapasi as a solution to Pak/BD problem as if they know about subcontinental Muslims more than Muslims themselves. Read my post again if you don't understand what I wrote about 108ers' proposal, then ask your nearest Hindu for its meaning.

BTW aren't you the one (I could be wrong) posting videos of Paki boys doing Shiv Puja in Paki thread?

I asked a simple question above.

How is it right & optimistic for Bharat to go to war with Pakistan in 1971 with its ~$108B GDP standing up against nuclear armed America & nearly occupy BD before making it an independent country when hardly 200k Muslims died & 10m Muslims migrated to India; but it is NOT right/optimistic for nuclear Bharat of $2T GDP to invade Bangladesh for it killing/converting 2-3M Hindus & pushing 20-30m immigrants into India?

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 06:43

http://www.dnaindia.com/entertainment/r ... sh-2115523
"India gets first talkie version of 1935 'Devdas' from Bangladesh"
"The film has been with Bangladesh Film Archive. The recent efforts of National Film Archive of India, have helped in bringing the copy of the said film (in DVD format) to the country," it said. There was a silent version of "Devdas" made in 1928 but Barua's 1935 version was the first talkie of the "Devdas" series.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 06:49

RamaY wrote:I asked a simple question above.

How is it right & optimistic for Bharat to go to war with Pakistan in 1971 with its ~$108B GDP standing up against nuclear armed America & nearly occupy BD before making it an independent country when hardly 200k Muslims died & 10m Muslims migrated to India; but it is NOT right/optimistic for nuclear Bharat of $2T GDP to invade Bangladesh for it killing/converting 2-3M Hindus & pushing 20-30m immigrants into India?


Sorry, moderators say, no help with school homework problems allowed. But I am confident, based on the record here, that you can think your way through this knotty simple problem.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 06:50

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 521087.cms
s representatives of Naga Hoho, the apex body of Naga tribes, head to Myanmar to persuade NSCN (Khaplang) to resume the ceasefire it had abrogated in March, NSCN(K) chairman SS Khaplang has reportedly excused himself from meeting them, citing health reasons. He has instead deputed the outfit's vice-chairman Khango Konyak and top military commander Nikki Sumi to talk to the Naga representatives.

Incidentally, self-styled Lt Gen Nikki Sumi was the mastermind behind the June 4 ambush in Chandel, Manipur, which killed 18 Army personnel.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 18 Aug 2015 16:02

A_Gupta wrote:
Sorry, moderators say, no help with school homework problems allowed. But I am confident, based on the record here, that you can think your way through this knotty simple problem.


Of course, when SufiGita fails moderators are the final sanctuary!

Go, Live for another day!

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 16:43

Here, I'll correct your question:

How is it right & optimistic in the national interest for Bharat to go to war with Pakistan in 1971 with its ~$108B GDP standing up against nuclear armed America & nearly occupy BD before making it an independent country when hardly 200k Muslims died & 10m Muslims migrated to India; but it is NOT right/optimistic in the national interest for nuclear Bharat of $2T GDP to invade Bangladesh for it killing/converting 2-3M Hindus & pushing 20-30m immigrants into India?


Does that help?

PS: the meaning of "there is no morality in international relations" is that actions are to be weighed on a scale of advancing the national interest.

Optimism/pessimism is a state of belief about a future uncertain trend.

Further clue: in 1971, India did not ever intend to occupy Bangladesh. India recognized Bangladesh as an independent country on December 6, 1971, ten days before Bangladesh itself made an official declaration of independence. One does not recognize an independent country just to occupy it a couple of weeks later.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 18 Aug 2015 17:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 18 Aug 2015 17:00

:rotfl: reminds me of an atheist who had problem with "RamaRajya" when I suggested the Sloka from Scion of Ikshvaku can be preamble for Constitution of Bharat.

Let's play to your insecurities for a moment.

Now tell us how is it in the national interests of Bharat that Islam & Christianity survive & hold Bharatiya captive!

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 17:06

RamaY wrote::rotfl: reminds me of an atheist who had problem with "RamaRajya" when I suggested the Sloka from Scion of Ikshvaku can be preamble for Constitution of Bharat.

Let's play to your insecurities for a moment.

Now tell us how is it in the national interests of Bharat that Islam & Christianity survive & hold Bharatiya captive!


Show us how Bharat can eliminate Islam & Christianity while maintaining the national interest. What objectives would you be willing sacrifice in order to achieve this elimination of Islam & Christianity? Do tell!

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 17:23

Londonistan strikes again!
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-ba ... rs-2115677
"Bangladesh arrests 3 Islamists over killings of secular bloggers"
Bangladesh's elite forces said on Tuesday they had arrested three suspected Islamist militants, including a British citizen of Bangladeshi origin, for masterminding the killings of two secular bloggers in the Muslim-majority nation.

Touhidur Rahman, 58, and two active members of outlawed Islamist group Ansarullah Bangla Team were arrested in Dhaka on Monday night, said Maksudul Alam, a spokesman for the Rapid Action Battalion (RAB) force.

"Rahman is a Bangladeshi origin British citizen and we suspect he is the main planner of the killings of U.S. blogger Avijit Roy and Ananta Bijoy Das," he told Reuters.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby nvishal » 18 Aug 2015 17:31

Image

http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=26.37 ... 4&z=12&m=m

Scrolling through these enclaves on google maps is mind boggling.
Many of these enclaves are actually pro-dominant muslim.

Due to claims from both sides, the borders had been kept open to enable people movement. Now that india-bangladesh has exchanged enclaves, I hope the borders are sealed.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 20:47

^^^ I believe control/management of the border was an important reason India went for the deal.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 18 Aug 2015 20:54

http://www.cctv-america.com/2015/08/18/ ... ndence-day
"India-Bangladesh soldiers at border exchange sweets on 69th Independence Day"

Posted for contrast with Pakistan.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 19 Aug 2015 05:33

A_Gupta wrote:
RamaY wrote::rotfl: reminds me of an atheist who had problem with "RamaRajya" when I suggested the Sloka from Scion of Ikshvaku can be preamble for Constitution of Bharat.

Let's play to your insecurities for a moment.

Now tell us how is it in the national interests of Bharat that Islam & Christianity survive & hold Bharatiya captive!


Show us how Bharat can eliminate Islam & Christianity while maintaining the national interest. What objectives would you be willing sacrifice in order to achieve this elimination of Islam & Christianity? Do tell!


Thank you for agreeing with me that Islam/Christianity doesn't have any value proposition to Bharat. We don't think that different after all.

Given the fact that Islam & Christianity are peaceful religions & majority of Indian Christians/Muslims are patriotic there is near zero impact on Indian Interests. GoI can impose emergency like Indira Gandhi did and change the constitution to be a Hindu Rashtra same way we added the abomination called "secularism" to the constitution.

There will be few misguided Muslims, Christians, Atheists & Hindu Dhimmis who will oppose such a constitutional proclamation like today's Naxals. We can ban them outright like we banned SiMi, Naxals & Khalistanis & enforce constitutional authority!

Please don't tell us that Indian Muslims & Christians wouldn't respect the holypook of constitution.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Gus » 20 Aug 2015 05:14

http://www.thestatesman.com/news/latest ... 83813.html
Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday met his Bangladesh counterpart Sheikh Hasina, who came here to attend the cremation of President Pranab Mukherjee's wife Suvra Mukherjee.

Hasina expressed condolences on the death of Suvra Mukherjee, who passed away on Tuesday after a long illness.

Modi thanked her for visiting India to attend the funeral.

He also thanked Hasina for the progress achieved in timely and peaceful implementation of the land boundary agreement between the two nations.

Both leader welcomed the signing of the motor vehicle agreement, and agreed to strengthen measures to increase regional connectivity.

Modi invited Hasina for an official visit at the earliest, which she accepted.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 20 Aug 2015 07:09

^^^ Sorry, I didn't agree with you. I wanted to see if you had any meaningful thing to suggest. I do not see how changing the Constitution as you suggest eliminates Islam & Christianity. At most, it merely will legitimizes Two Nation Theory, putting you in good company with M.A. Jinnah. It does nothing to convert Bangladesh or make it 108-er annexable by India.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 21 Aug 2015 01:42

A_Gupta wrote:^^^ Sorry, I didn't agree with you. I wanted to see if you had any meaningful thing to suggest. I do not see how changing the Constitution as you suggest eliminates Islam & Christianity. At most, it merely will legitimizes Two Nation Theory, putting you in good company with M.A. Jinnah. It does nothing to convert Bangladesh or make it 108-er annexable by India.

Hmm you crawled back... As usual you are indulging in Changing goal posts and lack of basic comprehension.

1/ Constitutional ban on Islam & Christianity will automatically lead to patriotic & constitution-following Indian Muslims & Christians to leave these foreign ideologies except misguided Indians

2/ A Hindu Bharat in the subcontinent isn't same as Islamic Pakistan in occupied Bharat.

3/ Dismantling Pakistan is recapturing of lost territory, which isn't same as Islamic Occupation of Bharatiya territories.

4/ Destruction of TNT = United Hindu Bharat; NOT same as TNT as your Sufi mind thinks!

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Tuvaluan » 21 Aug 2015 02:13

It is simply infeasible to make changes in the constitution outlawing certain religions -- a far better option is to remove the clause that makes it a criminal act to "offend religious sentiments", but this is all OT. Unless one does not comprehend the meaning of national interest, one would not be recommending creating new problems by outlawing religions, which solves nothing and creates new problems. Besides banning religions is hardly likely to create patriots out of citizens of those religions --- if anything they will all be more amenable to "fight against fascist hindus who are denying them their religion" battles. Strategy is supposed to safeguard the interests of the public in the long-term, not cause dissension and weaken the state from within...obvious point, one would think.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 21 Aug 2015 02:20

^ So you are accusing that Indian Muslims & Christians don't respect Constitution if it goes against their religion. This goes against our Sufi's original premise. Isn't rebellion against constitution treason?

And it's in Indian interests to create BD when few Muslims are killed but invading BD when even if more Hindus are killed in BD isn't in Indian interests .

What are Indian Interests btw?

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Tuvaluan » 21 Aug 2015 02:39

RamaY wrote:So you are accusing that Indian Muslims & Christians don't respect Constitution if it goes against their religion. But somehow Secularism, included, added by an emergency govt must be honored by Hindus.


No, but perhaps they are your thoughts? (they are not mine).

Fact is constitution cannot ban religions more than it can ban food items, it is not enforceable and will not improve quality of life or quality of governance, or achieve anything useful.

I said that it would be far more effective for the constitution to change in ways that disallows religious fundamentalists from legally challenging anyone who criticizes their religion. Allowing people to challenge regressive ideas is a must for a free-thinking society, not matter what the source of such ideas.

Keeping regressive ideas out of government policy making is a good start -- this would actually work in favor of "hindu" ideas, if that phrase means "live and let live", though it may not be good for fundamentalist ideas of any stripe.

What are Indian Interests btw?


Don't speak for anyone else, but I use the phrase to mean ideas and actions that lead to the Indian Republic to remain a cohesive whole and politically stable, with functional institutions that serve the interests of the public at large. These prerequisites will the Republic to accumulate power over time, so that it can further interests of the public at large. Towards that end, ideas that cause loss of cohesion, or any consequence that reduces the Republic's ability to gain political power beyond its borders and maintain stability within its borders, is not in the interest of the Republic.

There is no "list of Indian interests" if that is what you are looking for.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Aug 2015 03:03

Tuvaluan wrote:It is simply infeasible to make changes in the constitution outlawing certain religions -- a far better option is to remove the clause that makes it a criminal act to "offend religious sentiments", but this is all OT. Unless one does not comprehend the meaning of national interest, one would not be recommending creating new problems by outlawing religions, which solves nothing and creates new problems. Besides banning religions is hardly likely to create patriots out of citizens of those religions --- if anything they will all be more amenable to "fight against fascist hindus who are denying them their religion" battles. Strategy is supposed to safeguard the interests of the public in the long-term, not cause dissension and weaken the state from within...obvious point, one would think.


+108 :)
In particular, the problem is Indian Penal Code 295A. It's original form was brought up in the late 1920s because of the "Rangila Rasul" publication, and failed prosecution of its publisher. At that time, the nationalist leadership in the Central Legislature wanted this law because they thought it would promote Hindu-Muslim unity. This included Lala Lajpat Rai, if I remember correctly. The plea by some legislators that this should have a sunset provision was rejected.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Aug 2015 03:06

Here's a pessimistic view of Bangladesh, but it is from the very American point-of-view that Islamists should be part of the democratic process. From my point of view, nobody can be allowed to kick down the ladder that they climbed. So it is illegitimate, and should be illegal to use the democratic process to destroy it.

http://www.thenational.ae/arts-lifestyl ... into-chaos

IMO, the comparison with Myanmar made in the article is also inappropriate.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Aug 2015 03:10

But there is a significant development:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 82095.aspx
"S Africa to send Bangladesh grenade attack suspect back for trial"

If it happens, it will be a major development to bring the people behind the politically sensitive case to light as the attack on the rally of the then opposition leader Sheikh Hasina left at least 24 people dead and scores wounded in front of the headquarters of Bangladesh Awami League party. Hasina had narrowly escaped the August 21 attack despite more than one powerful grenades exploded very close to her podium where she just finished her speech as chief guest. Observers say the attack was designed to take political advantage by eliminating the opposition force led by Hasina and creating chaos in the country.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 21 Aug 2015 04:47

Tuvaluanji,

Request you to read the discussion from the beginning & it shouldn't take more than few mins.

1/ The debate is about how to engage Bangladesh. The very existence of BD is based on Bharat's "reactive" action when a couple of hundred thousand Muslims (let's forget about Hindus for a moment) were killed and few million became refuges into India. At the time Bharat's GDP was ~$108B and the major world power threatened with a nuclear strike. Yet Bharat withstood that pressure & liberated BD. and in the process Bharat got no tangible benefit except the "elusive" WKK logic that somehow TNT was destroyed. Please note that the same Sufi-WKks are now claiming that destroying Pakistan is same as (already dead) TNT. The names of Doval & Modi are brought in to bring legitimacy to the poster's sufi nonsense.

2/ In the past four decades, millions of BD Hindus are persecuted and tens of millions of refugees (illegal immigrants) are forced into India. Yet, the supporters of BD creation do not accept to apply the same logic we applied against Pakistan. This is nothing but to say, Hindu persecution doesn't matter because it is not in (this is 1st goal post change) "Indian interests". Yet these very Sufi-WKKs want India to help BD defeat Islamists for they are hijacking Muslim interests of BD. One has to reach Anal-Haq to give this kind of definition to Indian Interests. Here Bhagavat Gita is translated into Sufi Gita to gain legitimacy.

3/ (2nd goal post change) is introduced when a question is raised on what is "Indian Interests" what is the value proposition of Islam & Christianity to Bharatiya civilization. This goal post change is called "Indian Constitution". Yet it is conveniently forgotten that constitution of India is not a God given word and has been changed more than 100 times already. Every time it is changed to protect Islam & Christianity (inclusion of secularism, Sha-Bano case etc) there was no threat to constitution of India. But the constitution comes under threat only when a change is proposed to protect the civilizational rights of Hindus.

4/ 3rd goal post change is introduced by asking for a proposal on how Islam & Christianity can be made unlawful. If GoI can ban Naxalism and Secularism can be introduced thru constitution, why can't the constitution be changed to ban Islam and Christianity? On what basis it will hurt Indian Interests, unless the insinuation is that Indian Muslims & Christians will start civil war? Did the Muslims/Christians tell that to the Sufi poster or the poster himself is imposing his ideas on Muslims/Christians? If the current constitution, with all its fallacies and shortcomings is acceptable to all Indians, why not another change?

5/ Let's assume such a constitutional change does bring a civil war instigated by the Sufi WKKs? Then, how is it more costlier to Hindu civilization than it is losing 40% land (Pak + BD) and forced conversion/persecution of 20-50m Hindus; as implemented by Sufi strategists & leaders of India? Would the Hindu losses be any more than that in a civil war? Will it be a purposeful strategy if Hindus become victorious and regain all the territories lost to Islam? What if Indian Muslims happily Gharwapasi rejecting the Sufi-WKK trap?

6/ Now we can see that the poster introduced his next goal post change. He brings IPC section introduced in 1920s as if that colonial law is a sacred word. Again, true to his Sufi tradition, the poster brings Lala Lajapati Rai to gain legitimacy. If he is in love with Lal, then shouldnt he be criticizing Gandhi whose god father Gokhale sacrificed Lala Lajapati Roy to advance his political interests? How can we claim to be legitimate in our vision if the whole basis of our vision is built upon colonial laws, worldview and political networks?

7/ Thus so far in all this debate the Sufi WKK poster did nothing but goal post changing, hiding behind political leaders names as if he knew their true intentions and creating a false impression that Indian Muslims & Christians are against Hindu Interests and would commit treason if Hindu Interests are made the foundation of Indian constitution.

This type of erudite trolling if allowed unobjected, will lead to false definition of our national identity, civilizational ownership and national interests.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Aug 2015 06:01

1. The debate was not about how to engage Bangladesh. It was whether optimism about Bangladesh not going Pakistan's way was justified. I'm told it is utterly not.

2. Modi & Doval consider Bangladesh to be India's most important neighbor, and are pursuing closer relations with it. That is, they are optimistic about it, or at a minimum think that India's engagement will help prevent Bangladesh from going Pakistan's way. That means they are optimistic.

Leaving aside the issues of whether Modi is destined to go down in history as a Moorkha, and other such, it continues:

3. The assertion was made that Bangladesh must become a part of India. Which is all fine and good, but it raises the question, what will we do with Bangladesh's Muslim population?

4. The answer is that Bangladeshi Muslims will be "ghar-wapasied", and that Islam & Christianity are against Bharatiya civilization and must be eliminated.

5. So the question becomes - how do you eliminate Islam and Christianity without damaging Indian interests?

6. The answer is by declaring India to be a Hindu Rashtra.

7. How does declaring India to be a Hindu Rashtra eliminate Islam and Christianity? It doesn't.

8. The answer is - "why do you think Indian Christians and Muslims would be against a Hindu Rashtra"? But that was not the question. It was, becoming a Hindu Rashtra does not eliminate Islam and Christianity; and obviously, trying to eliminate Islam and Christianity is going to alienate most, if not all, of Indian Christians and Muslims.

9. At this point, Tuvaluan comes in and says that we need not change the Constitution, we need to eliminate laws which allow religious fundamentalists to stifle criticism of their religion.

10. At which point, I agree with Tuvaluan, and say, the key law is IPC 295A, and write about the circumstances in which it was passed.

11. We then get the diatribe above, which I can only call Lahori logic.

You are welcome to have the last word, Shri RamaY. I will not be responding to you any further.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Aug 2015 07:55

http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/ind ... 50225.html
"India-Bangladesh joint SOP to counter fake currency notes"
Kolkata: India and Bangladesh have agreed to draft a standard operating procedure (SOP) to counter the growing menace of fake currency notes, the National Investigation Agency (NIA) said on Thursday.

The decision was taken during the second meeting of the Joint Task Force on Fake Currency Notes (FCN) between India and Bangladesh held in Dhaka on August 12-13.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 21 Aug 2015 07:57

Jet Airways benefits for Indian and Bangla students:
Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst
NEW DELHI: Private carrier Jet Airways today said students from India and Bangladesh going abroad, particularly to the US and Europe, for higher studies under its 'EduJetter' programme can now avail its codeshare flights operated by partner airline Etihad Airways as well.

The programme offers assured benefits to such students when they book and travel on Jet Airways' direct and codeshare services with Etihad Airways, the airline said in a release.

This offer is valid until Sept ..


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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Tuvaluan » 21 Aug 2015 08:39

RamaY wrote:Request you to read the discussion from the beginning & it shouldn't take more than few mins.

This type of erudite trolling if allowed unobjected, will lead to false definition of our national identity, civilizational ownership and national interests


Yes, I read what you wrote, and I don't see anyone trolling here -- you seem to think that "national interests" is something to be defined, as in "saving hindu civilization" for example, and then doing X, Y,Z to further that goal. The counter point is keeping one's eye on the ball, i.e., chopping the legs off all the legal protection provided to religious bigots and fundamentalists of all types, which were all written in the rule books by some less-than-clever founding fathers of the nation. The latter approach will find widespread public support. removing laws that protect the bigotry of religious fundamentalists, which will end up protecting local culture without unnecessarily creating new religious wars that do not help India's long-term internal stability.

I will just point out that Pakistan is a country that has a "national islamic identity" and a "fortress of islam", where "defending islam is their national interest"...and we can see where that has taken them. Words and phrases can get corrupted with baggage over time and screw any grand plans of saving civilization, however that is defined. You are free to disagree. This is all i have to say.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby hnair » 21 Aug 2015 08:47

RamaY wrote:Hmm you crawled back...



This is getting tiresome. RamaY, it is YOU who crawled back from a permanent ban after some pleading. At some point, admins will have to lower the boom and it is entirely your option.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Aug 2015 08:37

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 601658.cms
The Sunderbans spread over India and Bangladesh has been proposed to be recognized as a trans-boundary protected area for better and joint management of the single largest block of mangrove system in the world.

The Siachen glacier region between India and Pakistan is also another proposed transboundary protected area in Asia.
"We have proposed to identify the entire mangrove as a trans-boundary protected area and share information about its management to maximize benefits on both sides," said Sunderbans Biosphere Reserve director Pradeep Vyas.

According to him, trans-boundary protected areas have earlier been identified in America and Africa. A trans-boundary protected area (TBPA), also known as trans-frontier conservation area or peace park, is a protected area that spans boundaries of more than one country or sub-national entity, where the political border sections that are enclosed within its area are abolished. This includes removal of all human-made physical boundaries, such as fences, allowing free migration of animals and humans within the area. A boundary around the area may, however, be maintained to prevent unauthorized border crossing.

Vyas said the move will facilitate exchange of information, intelligence inputs and technology between the two countries. If the proposal is cleared, then a ban can also be imposed on cargo vessels' movement through the mangroves. The proposal will be sent to the ministry of external affairs. " If everything goes well then both the countries will sign an MoU soon," said Vyas.

The decision was taken during a meeting on Indo-Bangla trans-boundary conservation which was attended by representatives from Bangladesh, including the country's chief conservator of forest (CCF) Md Younus Ali, conservator of forests (CF) Tapan Dey and officials from the nation' s foreign affairs ministry. The recent incidents of oil spill and killing of poachers in the Bangla mangroves had sparked concerns on the Indian side too. Sunderbans now has about 182 tigers, including 76 in the Indian mangroves and 106 in the Bangladesh swamps.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby RamaY » 23 Aug 2015 21:26

Is Bangladesh different from Pakistan as far Hindu civilization is concerned? Let us look at the facts.

1/ Bangladesh had 1.4 Cr Hindus in 1971, about 14% of overall population. Since 1971 It's overall population grew from 7Cr to 16 Cr but the Hindu population fell to 9%. So nearly 80 Lakh (8 million) Hindus are missing from Bangladesh. This is no different from the persecution of Hindus in Pakistan.

2/ Pakistan became important to geopolitical enemies of Bharat due to its geographical location. If BD were to be at little south or north, it too would have been propped by the 3.5 fathers with money, military hardware etc. Let us not forget the fact the USA went to the extent of sending its 5th fleet to salvage this very Bangladesh (at that time it was part of Pakistan) from Bharatiya invasion.

3/ Besides the missing Hindus, BD has been instrumental in waging a religious war with Bharatiya Hindus by allowing & facilitating tens of millions of Muslims illegal immigrants to all over India, who changed the political, security equations of many regions including Delhi, Mumbai, Hyderabad and of course Assam, other NE states, Bengal, Bihar and UP. These BD Muslims are caught starting & participating in riots, political murders, bomb blasts, human and animal trafficking etc. Bangladesh facilitated thousands of Rohingya Muslims to cross into India. If Pakistan is sending few hundreds OR thousands of terrorists, BD is sending many more criminals and terrorists into India every year in addition to millions of illegals who are silently changing the political fortunes of Indian democracy. The human & cattle smuggling facilitated by BD is of epic proportions and the socio-cultural-economic damage this is causing to Bharat's long terms interests dwarfs the damage caused by Pakistan. These reports indicate the Indo-BD human trafficking network steals away more than million women & children every year from our society. Imagine how long it would take Pakistan's terrorism to cause similar damage to Bharat.


Are Modi/Doval optimistic about Bangladesh? Again let us look at the facts.

4/ Sri Doval is on record saying, "The civilizational history of Kashmir, by extension entire Bharatiya sub-continent, belongs to Hindus alone". This has nothing to do with if Kashmir is ruled by Sikhs, British, Muslims or democratically elected leaders for a decade or century. It also has nothing to do with if Kashmir has more Hindus or Muslims or Christians or Sikhs or Parsis. Similarly, entire civilizational history of Bharatiya sub-continent belongs to Hindus alone, no matter what the "realities" are in a given space/time.

5/ Modi invited all SAARC leaders to his oath taking ceremony, including Nawaz Sharif of Pakistan. Modi met/spoke-with Nawaz Sharif many times since then. Modi also expressed his wish and interest to work with Pakistan. Doval is going to Pakistan to talk to Paki NSA this week. Can we say Modi is optimistic about Pakistan? Why not? Modi is optimistic with entire human civilization. Does it mean it will reduce his responsibility to Bharatiya interests in any way? Modi was optimistic about Afghanistan when his tenure began. He became pessimist (by using this very logic) when Afghan president made love with Pakistan. Modi became optimist again when Afghanistan after recent bomb attacks in Kabul and subsequent friction in Afghan-Pak relationship. Is this how we want to define our national vision and posture vis.a.vis other nations?

6/ Was Modi optimistic about BD when a bomb went off in West Bengal and the underground Islamic network working cross-borders came out? Who/how one decides and declares for once and for all that PMO India is optimistic about another nation? How can PMO India optimistic about a society given all the facts mentioned above? Would Modi/Doval remain optimistic about Bangladesh if/when they kill few thousand Hindus in an organized riot in Dhaka? If Modi/Doval are optimistic about BD then why did they offer Bharatiya Citizenship to Bangladesh Hindus?

7/ By definition, an Optimist is "a person/ideology that usually expects a favorable outcome". By this definition is it wrong to say Modi/Doval are optimist about ISIS, Taliban, IM, Dawood Ibrahmi and even Congress for that matter? After all they expect a favorable outcome (for them) in any transaction they do with them. Does it mean they are optimistic about ISIS/Taliban/Congress working for Bharatiya interests? After all Modi/Doval have had history of dealing with these people to save Indians in Iraq, Afghanistan and passing few bills in the parliament. Does this argument stand to any basic logic and factual verification?

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 24 Aug 2015 16:15

http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2015/08/ ... s-standard
"Hasina questions US, Canada’s human rights standard"

Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina has questioned the human rights standard of the US and Canada that have granted political asylum to two of the killers of Bangladesh’s founding father Bangabandhu Sheikh Mujibur Rahman.

“They (US and Canada) lecture on human rights while sheltering killers of my parents, my little brother, pregnant Arju Moni. How unfortunate are we!” Hasina said on Friday in Dhaka.
...
A group of rogue army men killed Bangladesh’s independence architect and most of his family on Aug 15, 1975, barely four years after liberation....

welve men were condemned to death for their role in the killing. Five of them have been executed but six others are abroad.

Rashed Chowdhury and Noor Chowdhury were granted asylum by the US and Canada respectively.


http://www.thedailystar.net/frontpage/o ... lum-127141
US Ambassador Marcia Stephens Bloom Bernicat on Thursday officially informed Dhaka that fugitive Rashed Chowdhury was staying in the US after securing political asylum.

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Re: Bangladesh News and Discussion

Postby Y. Kanan » 26 Aug 2015 02:58

A_Gupta, RoyG - you're either shockingly naive or willfully ignorant about the true nature of Islamic society. The philosophy of peaceful coexistence with other faiths is in fundamental conflict with the intent and spirit of the Koran and general Islamic thought. There is no historical precedent of any Islamic society undergoing a voluntary process of moderation (unless they never considered themselves Islamic to begin with, like Iran where Persian heritage is stronger than the Islamic religion that was forced upon them). But let's be honest; this sort of transformation, where a muslim population goes from being based around religion, and turns into a society based on fairness and peaceful coexistence... well let's just say history this type of transformation can happen, but only by force. For example, the USSR did a great job suppressing Islam throughout Central Asia and the Caucuses. The Assad's and Kemal Ataturk performed a similar feat in Syria and Turkey (for awhile). China managed to effectively suppress Islam in its western regions, although resistance is growing.

These examples illustrate just how difficult it is to keep a muslim population from reverting to its default nature. You'll notice only the most ruthless and powerful central govt's have pulled this off, and even then, the results were only temporary. Continued repression is required to keep any population of muslims "moderate". As soon as the oppressive central govt loses its grip, even long-suppressed Islamic populations will quickly revert to form. Look how quickly Chechnya and Dagestan embraced Islam after the fall of the USSR. The only reason all of Central Asia didn't revert to Islamic rule is because local dictators suppressed this trend with heavy support from Moscow. And eventually they too will lose their grip. Witness Turkey's slow transformation from forced secularism to Islamism. There are many recent examples of this phenomenon (Malaysia, Egypt, Iraq, Nigeria, Libya, Syria, etc). In one country after another, we see how Islam has reasserted itself even in the face of an authoritarian govt trying to force secular society down the throats of an unwilling muslim population. It's always a losing battle, unless you simply exterminate the population or resort to ethnic cleansing as the Chinese are doing in their western provinces.

Bangladesh's transformation is nothing new; we've witnessed countless muslim societies go through the same process in recent decades. It's the most basic impulse of the religion; you cannot stop it without extreme repression or outright genocide.

I'm dealing in reality here; you "optimists" are dealing in wishful thinking. You think of Islam as a fad or an ideology that will naturally die off or be discredited. You want to believe there is such a thing as "moderate Islam" when history keeps proving you wrong (over and over and over). How many times do you people have to be proven wrong before you'll admit that you don't really understand the true nature of Islam?

Our relations with Bangladesh should be guided by an understanding that this population will inevitably become more intolerant and aggressive (in other words, they'll become more Islamic). All that's really happening is BD's muslim population reverting back to their natural state, as they slowly undo all the tolerance and secularism that was shoved down their throats after 1971. It only took this long because of the large hindu population that BD started out with (and they've doing a great job whittling down that number).


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