Bangladesh News and Discussion

[A_Gupta]

Talk by Rafida Bonya Ahmed, widow of Avijit Roy, the writer/blogger who was hacked to death by Islamists in Bangladesh. Helps understand the precipice that Bangladesh is hovering over.

https://humanism.org.uk/fighting-machet ... e-lecture/

[A_Gupta]

Indian Ministry of External Affairs:
Exchange of enclaves between India and Bangladesh
http://mea.gov.in/press-releases.htm?dt ... Bangladesh

July 31, 2015

In accordance with steps agreed to between India and Bangladesh during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to Bangladesh on June 6-7, 2015, the Bangladeshi enclaves in India and Indian enclaves in Bangladesh shall stand physically transferred to the other country with effect from the midnight of 31 July 2015. There are 111 Indian enclaves in Bangladesh and 51 Bangladeshi enclaves in India which are to be exchanged pursuant to the 1974 Land Boundary Agreement and 2011 Protocol, instruments of ratification of which were exchanged during Prime Minister Modi’s visit.

Following the Prime Minister Modi’s visit, much work has gone into ascertaining the nationality options of the enclave residents. The Office of the Registrar General of India, Bangladesh Bureau of Statistics and DM, Cooch Behar and DCs of Lalmonirhat, Panchagarh, Kurigram and Nilphamari worked systematically and in a coordinated fashion to collect the options from the residents. The actual option taking exercise was carried out by 75 teams operating in the enclaves in India and Bangladesh from July 6-16, 2015. 30 observers from both Governments were also present in the enclaves during this survey period. Data from this joint exercise is now being verified by the Office of the Registrar General of India and the Bangladesh Bureau of Statistics.

After successfully completing the exercise of ascertaining nationality options of enclave residents, the ground has been prepared for the movement of such residents who exercise the option of moving from an Indian enclave to the Indian mainland. Both Governments are working closely together to facilitate trouble-free movement of these residents before the stipulated date of November 30, 2015.

July 31, 2015 will thus be a historic day for both India and Bangladesh. The day marks the resolution of a complex issue that has lingered since independence. It also marks the day from which enclave residents on both sides of the border will enjoy the benefits of nationality of India or Bangladesh, as the case may be, and thus access to civic services, education, healthcare and other facilities provided by the two Governments to their respective nationals.

Other steps with regard to implementation of the 1974 Land Boundary Agreement and 2011 Protocol are underway in accordance with agreed modalities between Government of India and Bangladesh.

New Delhi
July, 31 2015

[A_Gupta]

http://www.ucanews.com/news/in-banglade ... ghts/74010
In Bangladesh, indigenous people seek recognition of rights
Country recognizes religious diversity but denies ethnic pluralism, one observer says

More than 200 indigenous people formed a human chain in Dhaka on July 31 to call on the government to recognize their constitutional rights.

They also demanded that the government officially recognize the International Day of the World's Indigenous Peoples, held every August 9.

"There are many international days celebrated in Bangladesh with state sponsorship and endorsement, but the government has been utterly negligent about celebrating Indigenous Peoples Day," said Sanjeeb Drong, secretary of the Bangladesh Indigenous Peoples Forum, the largest forum for ethnic minorities in the country.

"Indigenous people are routinely abused for their property and land because the state does not recognize them as equal citizens. They are evicted from their land, face violence including murder and rape, but our law and justice system can't protect them," said Drong, a Catholic.

In Bengali Muslim-majority Bangladesh, about 3 million of the country's 160 million people belong to 45 indigenous, or tribal, groups. The majority of indigenous people are Buddhists and animists. Bangladesh has about 500,000 Christians, most of whom are Catholic. About half of them hail from indigenous communities.

Bangladesh’s 1972 constitution, drafted immediately after the 1971 liberation war against Pakistan, didn't recognize the presence of ethnic minorities.

During the debate over a 2011 constitutional amendment, indigenous leaders called on the ruling Awami League government to insert the term “indigenous peoples” in the charter. This request was denied, but the government instead included them as "small ethnic groups."

[nvishal]

India and bangladesh have swapped 162 pieces of land effective from 31st july.



Why India and Bangladesh have the world's craziest border

THIS year marks a watershed in the annals of bizarre geography. On July 31st India and Bangladesh will exchange 162 parcels of land, each of which happens to lie on the wrong side of the Indo-Bangladesh border. The end of these enclaves follows an agreement made between India and Bangladesh on June 6th. The territories along the world’s craziest border include the pièce de résistance of strange geography: the world’s only “counter-counter-enclave”: a patch of India surrounded by Bangladeshi territory, inside an Indian enclave within Bangladesh. How did the enclaves come into existence?

India and Bangladesh share a 4,100km (2,500-mile) border, hastily drawn around one of the most densely populated places on earth in 1947. Because of endless zigging and zagging it constitutes the world’s fifth-longest. The parcels to be exchanged are 111 Bangladeshi and 51 Indian enclaves clustered on either side of Bangladesh’s border with the district of Cooch Behar, in the Indian state of West Bengal. The enclaves are invisible on most maps; most are invisible on the ground too. But they became an evident problem for their 50,000-odd inhabitants with the emergence of passport and visa controls. Independent India and Bangladesh—part of Pakistan until 1971—each refused to let the other administer its exclaves, leaving their people effectively stateless.

Legend has it that the enclaves were formed as a result of a series of chess games played between two maharajas centuries ago (the chunks of land were used as wagers). They were later attributed to a drunken British officer who supposedly spilt drops of ink on the map when drawing the India-Pakistan border in 1947. According to Reece Jones, a political geographer, the plots were cut from larger territories by treaties signed in 1711 and 1713 between the maharaja of Cooch Behar and the Mughal emperor in Delhi, bringing to an end a series of minor wars. Armies kept the territory they controlled, inhabitants paid taxes to their respective feudal rulers and people moved freely across a quiltwork patterned by feudal warfare. Fifty years later, efforts by the British East India Company to clear up the messy map failed when their residents opted to stay put.

It was partition, the division of India and Pakistan, that turned the enclaves into a no-man’s-land. The Hindu maharaja of Cooch Behar chose to join India in 1949 and he brought with him the ex-Mughal, ex-British possessions he inherited. Enclaves on the other side of the new border were swallowed (but not digested) by East Pakistan, which later became Bangladesh. It was not until 1974 that the two countries first agreed to fix this zany borderland. India agreed to forgo compensation for a net loss of territory that is roughly half the size of Hong Kong Island (or 2,000 cricket stadiums). But weak governments and nationalism thwarted India’s progress. In May 2015, 41 years later, its parliament finally passed a constitutional amendment required to cede land to Bangladesh and resolve the anomaly.

Erasing the enclaves will have three main effects. The first will be felt primarily by residents, who can now choose which country to join, acquiring basic benefits of citizenship in the process. The process will allow India and Bangladesh to focus on weightier matters. Finally, in vanishing from the borderlands of Bengal, the world’s enclaves have taken a flying leap towards extinction. From this summer, there will be 49 extraterritorial patches left anywhere, mainly in western Europe and on the fringe of the former Soviet Union. Most of the world’s enclaves will have disappeared overnight.

[kmkraoind]

Examining the Indo-Bangla Land Boundary Agreement - Indiafacts.co.in

Its a very big and detailed article and it was penned by 2 our own BRFites.

[Supratik]

The official demographics data of Bdesh Vol 2 is now released. The Hindu population has declined from 9.34% to 8.54%.

[Supratik]

Calculating from Bdesh pop growth about 1 million Hindus have migrated to India between 2001-2011.

[A_Gupta]

Indian machinery fair begins in Dhaka
http://www.thedailystar.net/business/in ... aka-122878

Bangladesh should explore opportunities in Indian markets to help narrow the trade gap between the two countries and build its own economy, Indian High Commissioner Pankaj Saran said yesterday.

“There is a big market completely open for you. I would like to invite you to explore the market,” he told Bangladeshi businesspeople at the opening ceremony of the three-day India Investrade 2015 at Bangabandhu International Conference Centre in Dhaka.

Sixty Indian companies have set up 68 stalls at the fair, displaying products such as energy and electrical equipment, electronics and industrial machinery.

The Indian Chamber of Commerce has organised the show in association with the commerce ministry of India, the Indian High Commission in Bangladesh, the Federation of Bangladesh Chambers of Commerce and Industry and the Dhaka Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Industries Minister Amir Hossain Amu said Bangaldesh is a unique place for investment. “In order to become a developed economy by 2041, we are pursuing a liberal investment and industrial policy for foreign investors with attractive incentive packages.”

[AjayKK]

Fourth Bangladeshi secular blogger hacked to death in Dhaka

http://www.firstpost.com/world/fourth-b ... 83236.html

Dhaka, Bangladesh: A gang armed with machetes hacked a secular blogger to death at his home in Dhaka on Friday in the fourth such murder in Bangladesh since the start of the year, an activist group and police said.

Niloy Chakrabarti, who used the pen-name Niloy Neel, was killed after the gang broke into his apartment, according to the Bangladesh Blogger and Activist Network which was alerted to the attack by a witness.

They entered his room in the fifth floor and shoved his friend aside and then hacked him to death. He was a listed target of the Islamist militants," the network's head Imran H. Sarker told AFP.

Police confirmed Chakrabarti had been murdered by a group of half a dozen people in the capital's Goran neighbourhood although they had no details on his background or the motive for the killing.

"There were six people who knocked his door, saying that they were looking to rent a flat. Two of them then took him to a room and then slaughtered him there," Muntashirul Islam, a deputy police commissioner, told AFP.

"His wife was in the flat but she was confined to another room."

He is the fourth secular blogger to be killed in the Muslim-majority nation since February when Bangladeshi-born US citizen Avijit Roy, a writer and moderator of a blog site, was hacked to death in Dhaka.

The other victims include Ananta Bijoy Das who was attacked by a group wielding machetes on May 13 as he headed to work in Sylhet and 27-year-old Washiqur Rahman was hacked to death in Dhaka in March.

Bangladeshi authorities banned the hardline Islamist group Ansarullah Bangla Team (ABT) following Das's murder in May, after facing accusations that they were doing too little to stop such attacks.

Bangladesh is an officially secular country but more than 90 percent of its 160 million people are Muslim.

[arun]

^^^ Is a systematic slaughter of individuals of Hindu ancestry by those professing Mohammaddenism being hidden in Bangladesh by stressing that the victims of murder were “bloggers” and remaining wholly silent about the victims Non-Mohammadden, most likely Hindu, identity

Going by the names, three of the four “bloggers” killed so far this year are Non-Mohammaddens and most likely Hindu at birth. The names Niloy Chakrabarti, Ananta Bijoy Das and Avijit Roy all suggest that. The only clearly Mohammadden name among the victims is Washiqur Rahman. Given that an overwhelming number of Bangladeshi’s are Mohammadden, fact that 3 of the 4 slaughtered “bloggers” are Non-Mohammaddens is statistically very significant in that the number of Non-Mohammaddens getting done in is way out of sync with population composition suggesting religion based targetting.

[A_Gupta]

There is a list of 89 targets for the Islamists, e.g., Taslima Nasreen is on it, and since GOI cannot give her security, she has fled to New York City for now.

We should obtain the list of 89 and see if it is mostly non-Muslim-ancestry.

[Supratik]

Better still find out who made the list and bump them off.

[A_Gupta]

http://www.risingbd.com/english/8_among ... ased/23631
From some months ago:

In a bid to overthrough the Shahbagh movement that was erupted last year demanding to try the war criminals, Ansarullah Bangla Team, a militant organisation, in the country, had published what they claimed as `hit list` of 84 people to kill them.
...
The `hit list` includes- Imran H Sarkar, convener of Gonojagoron Mancha, Asif Mohuddin, Avijit Roy, Ahmed Rajeeb Haider, Maruf Rasul, Aarif Jebtik, Ibrahim Khalil, Arifur Rahman, Ananna Azad and Mahamudul Haq Munsi.
...
The other five bloggers who were killed by the militants are Jafar Munshi, Mamun Hossain, Jagatjyoti Talukder, Arif Hossain Dwip and Ziauddin Zakaria Babu.

PS: so bump off Ansarullah Bangla.

[A_Gupta]

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/world/bangl ... 34911.html

Dhaka: Bangladesh will welcome the FBI's help in probing the brutal murder of secular blogger Niloy Chakrabarty Neel, the fourth such case in the last six months involving suspected al-Qaeda linked Islamists, Home Minister Asaduzzaman Khan Kamal said.

"If the FBI wants to assist us in the investigation process, we will welcome it," Kamal told reporters said on Saturday night, as officials said the US investigating agency conveyed its interest in the case.

[A_Gupta]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 415087.cms

DHAKA: FBI officials on Sunday held discussions with Bangladesh police to crack the brutal murder case of secular blogger Niloy Chakrabarty Neel, the fourth such killing in the last six months involving suspected al-Qaida-linked Islamists.

A team comprising two US and one Bangladeshi went to the office of the detective branch (DB) at Mintoo Road here on Sunday morning, a day after the US-based Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) said it would help Bangladesh solve the murder case.

The meeting was advanced to discuss the findings in the ongoing probe of another blogger Avijit Roy, a naturalized US citizen, who hacked to death in February.

Mahbub Alam, deputy commissioner (east) of DB, told reporters that the FBI would provide technical assistance if Bangladesh detectives need any help in the investigation of the killing.

The evidences collected from the crime scene have been sent to different labs for clues to investigate the Neel's killing, Daily Star reported.

[schinnas]

Examining the Indo-Bangla Land Boundary Agreement - Indiafacts.co.in

Its a very big and detailed article and it was penned by 2 our own BRFites.

Well researched article. Good work overall.

I have just two comments.

1. The article seemed to glance over is the access to North East. Developing and integrating north east is key to India's long term strategic goals. Bangladesh holds the key to accessing it. The price paid by India - in terms of giving up 10,000 acres of land and potentially granting citizenship to up to 35,000 Bangladeshis is worth every inch of land.

2. The other concern about leaving 9000 Indian Hindus to their fate in Bangladesh is also addressed by granting of citizenship to those from Pakistan and Bangladesh fleeing religious prosecution.

[Shanmukh]

Examining the Indo-Bangla Land Boundary Agreement - Indiafacts.co.in

Its a very big and detailed article and it was penned by 2 our own BRFites.

Well researched article. Good work overall.

I have just two comments.

1. The article seemed to glance over is the access to North East. Developing and integrating north east is key to India's long term strategic goals. Bangladesh holds the key to accessing it. The price paid by India - in terms of giving up 10,000 acres of land and potentially granting citizenship to up to 35,000 Bangladeshis is worth every inch of land.

Thanks, saar. Developing & integrating NE will have to be done despite BD. This agreement for access to NE is not going to work if Sheikh Hasina gets voted out/overthrown in 5 years. Khaleda Zia or some other Islamist will close it. Further, the rail links going through NW Bangladesh (Patgram, Tetulia, Bamanhat) linking WB with Cooch Behar & Cooch Behar & Dhubri are all still closed. Giving up permanent territory for some temporary access is an unwise price to pay. JMT.

2. The other concern about leaving 9000 Indian Hindus to their fate in Bangladesh is also addressed by granting of citizenship to those from Pakistan and Bangladesh fleeing religious prosecution.

Yes, in theory. No, in practice. The Hindus who are on the enclaves are dirt poor, mostly illiterate & have no way even to make the journey to India. Most of them are SCs & STs, as Amar Roy Pradhan pointed out in LS. While technically, they can leave everything they have there & come here & claim compensation, they most likely won't do it. They have nothing in India & an uncertain future. They will stick to their land till they are expelled (if lucky) or killed (if unlucky).

[Prem]

[youtube]HCO4BjeS13k&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

[arun]

Fourth Bangladeshi secular blogger hacked to death in Dhaka

http://www.firstpost.com/world/fourth-b ... 83236.html

............. {Snipped}.............

^^^ Is a systematic slaughter of individuals of Hindu ancestry by those professing Mohammaddenism being hidden in Bangladesh by stressing that the victims of murder were “bloggers” and remaining wholly silent about the victims Non-Mohammadden, most likely Hindu, identity

Going by the names, three of the four “bloggers” killed so far this year are Non-Mohammaddens and most likely Hindu at birth. The names Niloy Chakrabarti, Ananta Bijoy Das and Avijit Roy all suggest that. The only clearly Mohammadden name among the victims is Washiqur Rahman. Given that an overwhelming number of Bangladeshi’s are Mohammadden, fact that 3 of the 4 slaughtered “bloggers” are Non-Mohammaddens is statistically very significant in that the number of Non-Mohammaddens getting done in is way out of sync with population composition suggesting religion based targetting.

In Mohammadden majority countries Dhimmi’s need to watch their step as there will be little help from the guardians on the law when it is a matter that involves Mohammaddenism. Hacked to death Bangladeshi bloggers complaint was not registered by the Police and further Police thought it fit to advise against freely expressing oneself, a path also taken by the Mohammadden extremists who hacked the blogger to death:

'Don't Cross Limits', Bangladesh Police Chief's Blogger Warning Sparks Uproar

[Y. Kanan]

Are any BR-ites still under the illusion that Bangladesh is anything but another Pakistan in the making? This nasty society is going to be nothing but a continued source of violence and grief for our country; there is absolutely no hope that "moderates" are going to hold any sway in Bangladesh going forward. Their society is on the same inevitable trajectory as Pakistan; the only thing that's delayed the process for Bangladesh has been their large hindu minority. Most of them have already been slaughtered or forced to flee the country; the hindus that remain are already being very effectively intimidated into silence. I give them another generation at best, before all have fled, converted or forced to live in the shadows (like Pakistan's religious minorities).

India needs to be preparing for the day when we flatten that sh*tstain of a country. The biggest priorities right now should be fortifying the BD border and preparing for the inevitable hostilities.

[A_Gupta]

Yes, I am under the illusion that the direction Bangladesh is going to take is still to be decided. Yes, it is quite probable Bangladesh will go Pakistan's way. But there is still a small chance it won't, and it depends in part on India's actions. Which is why to Modi & co, Bangladesh is India's most important neighbor.

As an objective indication of Bangladesh's possible different trajectory, compare with Pakistan things like total fertility rate, literacy rate, percentage of children in school, women in the workplace; and remember that Bangladesh started behind Pakistan in 1971. These are contrary to a replication of Pakistan's path.

[Tuvaluan]

http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2015/08/ ... bangladesh

On the gurdaspur thread, there is mention of how the US uses "Food for Peace" as a strategic weapon, and they are doing that to Bangladesh now, where the US is on the side of Khaleda Zia and the islamists -- their real target is starting a Rohingya conflict in Myanmar. The question is, why is the Indian and BD govts. allowing this to happen after all the hard work in recent years -- shooting themselves in the foot must be a skill acquired in the Indian IFS.

[RamaY]

Yes, I am under the illusion that the direction Bangladesh is going to take is still to be decided. Yes, it is quite probable Bangladesh will go Pakistan's way. But there is still a small chance it won't, and it depends in part on India's actions. Which is why to Modi & co, Bangladesh is India's most important neighbor.

As an objective indication of Bangladesh's possible different trajectory, compare with Pakistan things like total fertility rate, literacy rate, percentage of children in school, women in the workplace; and remember that Bangladesh started behind Pakistan in 1971. These are contrary to a replication of Pakistan's path.

I appreciate your optimism.

But let's not run away from truth. It's the direct action day in Bengal that kickstarted the Pakistan process to begin with. Pakistan got the prominence only because of its geographical location to advance four-father's interests.

So in reality 1971 is about the four fathers gotting rid of the "ideological center" of BD so Pakistan can turn 100% renteir state for their jihad project in Afghanistan. Thus 1971 is about Pakistan separating from BD and not the other way around.

Even if we accept your line of thought, BD in 1971 is same as Pakistan in 1947; violent separation from a mothership that it hates. Today's BD (2015) is same as 1980s Pakistan. They are already sending non-state actors in India; this is how thousands of Rohingya Muslims settling all over India. By 2030 we can be assured of BD morphing into Pakistan of today stoking Khalistan movement (Bengal pride ) and so on.

There was a whole generation of optimists in late 70s and early 80s who were preaching rest of India that Pakistan will grow into a normal nation. They are called WKKs nowadays.

[A_Gupta]

^^^ Count PM Modi and NSA Ajit Doval among the optimists. Illustrious company.

[svinayak]

But let's not run away from truth. It's the direct action day in Bengal that kickstarted the Pakistan process to begin with. Pakistan got the prominence only because of its geographical location to advance four-father's interests.

So in reality 1971 is about the four fathers gotting rid of the "ideological center" of BD so Pakistan can turn 100% renteir state for their jihad project in Afghanistan. Thus 1971 is about Pakistan separating from BD and not the other way around.

Muslim League was created in Bengal in 1905. It was to separate the Muslims from the Hindus from politics, elections, social, education etc. Direct Action day was started in Bengal to show the rest of the Muslims in Punjab and other regions to use force to go against Hindus. Partition of Bengal was the first event to show that Muslims can be seperate and form their own country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition ... gal_(1905)

[A_Gupta]

I think both the peril and promise of Bangladesh is illustrated by this article:
http://opinion.bdnews24.com/2015/06/09/ ... neighbour/

Bangladesh is, as Lawrence Lifschultz said, burdened with an ‘unfinished revolution’. This is the country which buried Jinnah’s Two-Nation theory in the muddy swampy battlefields of 1971.

This is the Muslim dominated country that prides itself on its Bengali heritage; where young bloggers fall to the sword of the radical but do not flinch from upholding liberal Bengali values that led to the creation of the nation.

This is a Muslim country where men and women recite Tagore, Nazrul, Jibananda Das, and Michael Madhusudhan on February 21 to remember the fallen heroes of the Bengali language movement.

This is the country which never fails to celebrate December 16 as Victory Day, and where the surrender ceremony of Pakistan’s Lt. Gen. Niazi to India’s Lt. Gen. J S Arora, is religiously re-enacted every year when dozens of veteran freedom-fighters relive their experience of fighting alongside Indian troops to liberate their country from the brutal Pakistanis.

True, this is also the country where bigots continue to sometimes attack minorities, but one should never forget that liberal Muslim Bengalis suffer as much in their hands as Hindus.

For every Avijit Ray who falls to the sword of the Faithful, there is a Rajib Haider who has met the same fate, and for an Ananta Bijoy Das, there is always a Washiqur Rahman Babu.

The bigots who Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina describes as the ‘defeated forces of 1971′ still tend to surface virulently and subject the secular forces to merciless attack.

The attack on secular bloggers drives home the point that Islamist radicals fear the liberal thought more than anything else. Two days before Dhaka fell to the Indian forces and Mukti Bahini, the Pakistanis and their local cohorts massacred dozens of Bengali liberal intellectuals, Hindus and Muslims alike.

Bangladesh remembers it as ‘Buddhijibi Hatyakhando’ (Intellectual Massacre). The bigots carry forward that brutal fundamentalist tradition which the seculars face with as much bravery as the men and women in 1971, when millions died to create a new nation over a ‘river of blood’ (Ek Sagar Rakter Binomoy).

Hasina’s administration has taken the bold move to try the ‘war criminals of 1971’ — the brutal men who collaborated with Pakistan to stifle the Bengali fight for independence.

Some have been hanged. Others are waiting for the gallows. Many others are facing trial or have been given life imprisonment. She has cracked down hard and tough on the Islamist radicals of a whole range, knowing full well that she may be hit by an assassin’s bullet any unguarded moment as her illustrious father.

In Bangladesh, India has a neighbour to befriend and a case to make by extending the hands of friendship. For those who fly the flags of Pakistan in Kashmir, Bangladesh is a quiet reminder of a failed state that is Pakistan.

Bangladesh is the anti-thesis of Pakistan. Though both are Muslim nations, and Bangladeshis take their religion as seriously as Pakistanis without overdoing it, the bedrock of its national identity is liberal Bengali values and culture, inherited from the Bengal renaissance but in a more profound way than by the 19th century bhadralok.

For those in Delhi who equate Bangladesh and Pakistan, a free ticket to Dhaka to witness Shahbagh 2013 would be an eye-opener: Demonstrations in support of secularism and the demand for a ban on religion-driven politics.

Hasina’s government took the cue from the movement, where women outnumbered men on any given day and where Lucky Akhtar raised sloganeering to state-of-art, to enforce a ban on Jamaat-e-Islami. It stands in stark contrast to what has happened in India in recent months where some in Shiv Sena have gone to the extent of supporting Jinnah’s Two-nation theory.

There are bigots in Bangladesh and they attack minorities, much as there are bigots in India who do the same. These are the people who keep the ghost of Jinnah alive outside Pakistan.

Hasina’s battle against these forces is a stern reminder that her nation’s revolution is still ‘unfinished’. She needs huge Indian support to win that revolution...

[A_Gupta]

Apart from Turkey back in Kemal Ataturk's time, is Bangladesh the only Muslim-majority country to ban religious political parties?
http://jurist.org/paperchase/2010/07/ba ... arties.php

--- As the article above that I quoted from extensively indicates, Pakistani thought does live on in Bangladesh. Yet, unlike in Pakistan, there is still a possibility of defeating it.

In Bangladesh, the attacks on the humanist, secularist bloggers indicates the inverse of what Rajesh pointed out on the STFUP thread, that countering digital Islam there is digital humanism; and the Islamists know it, and fear it, and attack it. One of the key things to do is to not allow it to be defeated.

[RoyG]

Apart from Turkey back in Kemal Ataturk's time, is Bangladesh the only Muslim-majority country to ban religious political parties?
http://jurist.org/paperchase/2010/07/ba ... arties.php

--- As the article above that I quoted from extensively indicates, Pakistani thought does live on in Bangladesh. Yet, unlike in Pakistan, there is still a possibility of defeating it.

In Bangladesh, the attacks on the humanist, secularist bloggers indicates the inverse of what Rajesh pointed out on the STFUP thread, that countering digital Islam there is digital humanism; and the Islamists know it, and fear it, and attack it. One of the key things to do is to not allow it to be defeated.

I agree. I think a lot is being done behind the scenes to cull these guys slowly. As Bangladesh progresses economically, the polarization will be greater. However, unlike Pakistan they're surrounded by stable countries with a dharmic majority. If the current regime can last 10-15 more years, the Islamists are going to find themselves in Congi self destruct mode. MAD won't let them capture power.

[RamaY]

^^^ Count PM Modi and NSA Ajit Doval among the optimists. Illustrious company.

Very chanikyan move to bring in Modi/Doval to feel better as if you have a hotline with them.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of Hindu Kings/Rulers who hoped to "civilize" Islam since 640 AD and we know how they ended up. Modi & Doval won't be any different if they try to be moorkhas (moorkha is someone who expects different outcome while doing the same thing).

I am going to be alive few more years and will remind you about this discussion; as I did with other posters.

[RoyG]

^^^ Count PM Modi and NSA Ajit Doval among the optimists. Illustrious company.

Very chanikyan move to bring in Modi/Doval to feel better as if you have a hotline with them.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of Hindu Kings/Rulers who hoped to "civilize" Islam since 640 AD and we know how they ended up. Modi & Doval won't be any different if they try to be moorkhas (moorkha is someone who expects different outcome while doing the same thing).

I am going to be alive few more years and will remind you about this discussion; as I did with other posters.

We're living in the 21st century Ramayji. We are a re-emerging power and as such we have to ensure that friendly regimes in our periphery are protected. Birth rates in Bangladesh have fallen significantly and they're opening up their economy to Indian investment. We have a golden opportunity to play a role in isolating the Islamists in Bangladesh which is critical given that we are facing an islamist resurgence within India, especially in WB.

The difference between the kings of the past pacifying Muslims and becoming halaled is b/c the entire land was divided and we later didn't have the capability to deal with them and keep the Anglo-Saxons at bay at the same time. We are facing internal security challenges but things are slowly improving (NE, Naxalites, etc).

The biggest prophylaxis that we can administer to ourselves is reforming mainstream education and ensuring that Muslims within start leaving madrassah education and start embracing it. It's really public policy that will determine how well Bangladesh progresses in our favor.

[RamaY]

^ RoyG Garu

Of course optimists have a right to their opinion. I only hope such kind don't even come close to the corridors of power.

Guptaji tried to pull the magic carpet out by saying Modi & Doval are optimists. I question that premise.

Removing Islamists from a Muslim society is nothing but removing Islam. As you have a right to political correctness, I have a right to not to be politically correct.

Anyways, I am going to live for at least another couple of decades. We shall see who will be right.

I only pray that you don't end up like WKKs, who try to appease Pakis even after they are proven wrong.

[RoyG]

I agree with you that Islam can't be allowed to continue on. But again, we are facing the same threat as the Marathas faced. The Anglo-Saxon wolf is at our doorstep once again and is more aggressive than ever. We are also facing the threat emanating from the islamic encroachment of our land east of khyber pass and within some our our own states. We have to balance our growth while exerting more influence over our periphery. This can only be accomplished primarily through building up our military capability and industrial capacity and using covert and economic leverage. It's a very fine balance.

[A_Gupta]

Very chanikyan move to bring in Modi/Doval to feel better as if you have a hotline with them.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of Hindu Kings/Rulers who hoped to "civilize" Islam since 640 AD and we know how they ended up. Modi & Doval won't be any different if they try to be moorkhas (moorkha is someone who expects different outcome while doing the same thing).

I am going to be alive few more years and will remind you about this discussion; as I did with other posters.

Oh, I thought you'd be too busy strangling Islamists with your bare hands, and ridding the world of Islam and so forth, so will be honored to be so remembered!

PS: by the way, thanks for reminding me about the types of fools:
http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2004/1 ... fools.html

[RamaY]

Very chanikyan move to bring in Modi/Doval to feel better as if you have a hotline with them.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of Hindu Kings/Rulers who hoped to "civilize" Islam since 640 AD and we know how they ended up. Modi & Doval won't be any different if they try to be moorkhas (moorkha is someone who expects different outcome while doing the same thing).

I am going to be alive few more years and will remind you about this discussion; as I did with other posters.

Oh, I thought you'd be too busy strangling Islamists with your bare hands, and ridding the world of Islam and so forth, so will be honored to be so remembered!

PS: by the way, thanks for reminding me about the types of fools:
http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2004/1 ... fools.html

Yup, so what kind of fool one would be if one keeps believing Islamists can be isolated from Islam & Islam is religion of peace; Mudha or Matti? WKKs are mutta_l?

By the way, it's very cute of you to post inconsistent & mutually contradicting ideas in different threads... Is Taslima Nasreen referring the optimists as pseudo-secular Indians here?

Exiled Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen tweets:

taslima nasreen ‏@taslimanasreen Aug 10

ISIS has planned to take over India by 2020. Pseudo-secular Indians might say, Atithi Devo Bhava.

[RoyG]

Very chanikyan move to bring in Modi/Doval to feel better as if you have a hotline with them.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of Hindu Kings/Rulers who hoped to "civilize" Islam since 640 AD and we know how they ended up. Modi & Doval won't be any different if they try to be moorkhas (moorkha is someone who expects different outcome while doing the same thing).

I am going to be alive few more years and will remind you about this discussion; as I did with other posters.

Oh, I thought you'd be too busy strangling Islamists with your bare hands, and ridding the world of Islam and so forth, so will be honored to be so remembered!

PS: by the way, thanks for reminding me about the types of fools:
http://arunsmusings.blogspot.com/2004/1 ... fools.html

[Bade]

Future of BD is as another state in the Indian union, believe it or not. I have no data to back up the claim, but I see no other alternative. A bit of the Bangla pride will have to take a backseat, just like Tamil pride or Punjabi pride. One has been taken care of the other two awaits a solution. The '71 liberation was an incomplete solution. Just as the Maharaja of J&K was given a choice, so should have been the people of Bangladesh. No free meals for liberation.

[Arjun]

Future of BD is as another state in the Indian union, believe it or not. I have no data to back up the claim, but I see no other alternative. A bit of the Bangla pride will have to take a backseat, just like Tamil pride or Punjabi pride. One has been taken care of the other two awaits a solution. The '71 liberation was an incomplete solution. Just as the Maharaja of J&K was given a choice, so should have been the people of Bangladesh. No free meals for liberation.

Interesting viewpoint. Ramachandra Guha in today's papers takes the opposite view:Why I'm not nostalgic for an undivided India at all

Guy's typically a dumbass - but even he seems to understand the implication of the following:

In India today, the Muslims constitute 13% of the population, or one in seven. Had there been an undivided India, the percentage of Muslims would have been closer to 33%, or one in three.

At least India is recognized as an aspiring superpower today. Any such dreams would have completely vanished had our demographics been closer to that of undivided India.

[Supratik]

According to Guha the trio of Gandhi, Nehru, Patel stamped down on Hindu majoritarianism by agreeing to Muslim exclusivism in the form of Pakistan. Lahori logic.

At the time of partition Muslims were 25% of the population. I think non-Muslims would have been more aware of demographics than they are now in current India and it would have stayed close to that number. Yes, civil war was a distinct possibility. Who would prevail would have depended on the composition of the army.

[Arjun]

At the time of partition Muslims were 25% of the population. I think non-Muslims would have been more aware of demographics than they are now in current India and it would have stayed close to that number. Yes, civil war was a distinct possibility. Who would prevail would have depended on the composition of the army.

Data does not support your hypothesis.

India's Muslim percentage post independence has gone up from 10% to 15%. In W. Bengal from 20% to 30%. In Kerala, from 17.5% to 25%.

More importantly, the whole of India would have been similar to W.Bengal in economic state. Communist ideology and striving for mediocrity would have remained the hallmark of the Indian economy...

[RamaY]

.

Future of BD is as another state in the Indian union, believe it or not. I have no data to back up the claim, but I see no other alternative. A bit of the Bangla pride will have to take a backseat, just like Tamil pride or Punjabi pride. One has been taken care of the other two awaits a solution. The '71 liberation was an incomplete solution. Just as the Maharaja of J&K was given a choice, so should have been the people of Bangladesh. No free meals for liberation.

+108. I would add just another point. Just like Bengali/Punjabi/Tamil pride, even Muslim & Christian pride must take a back seat & merge into Bharatiya identity!