Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

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shiv
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Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shiv » 08 Nov 2008 14:11

The Malegaon blasts of 2006 have now been pinned on an Indian army officer. The man's name is Purohit. It is a Hindu name.

Note the absence of Hindus howling "victimizatioooooooon". Note also that he army are not claiming that they have been victimized. Neither are claiming framed charges. Should guilty Hindus not be like our Islamic brethren and do exactly that?

The army is a disciplined organization but the involvement of a senior officer requires some thinking.

in the years before and after the Malegaon blasts there have been at least 20 serial bomb blasts that have been pinned on Islamic extremists. Every time there has been a howl that Muslims are being victimized by our "secular" media and their "liberal" spokespersons.

Obviously the involvement of one or more army officers does not mean that the entire organization is doing this any more than all Muslims can be blamed for terrorism. But the involvement of a senior army officer could well be symptomatic of the way the majority Hindu community, as well as the security forces are abused by the "secularists" of India whenever they want to divert blame away from their failures and avoid hurting their vote banks and genteel readership

Every time there is a terrorist attack in India and we have many of those, those of us who belong to the majority community (that is a euphemism for Hindu) are told that the attack is the fault of Hindus because they are such bigoted dogs. naturally there has to be a blowback for Gujarat, Babri Masjid, raping Kashmiris, burning Muslims. You name it - it is the fault of the Hindus. And if a terrorist is shot -"Muslims are victims!" "Fake encounter death!"

If a bomb blast occurs under an army or security forces vehicle it is "Incompetence!. Intelligence failure"

If any attack occurs - it is a failure of the security forces., and the fault of the Hindu community. If an attack is thwarted by arresting or shooting someone "False encounter" "Guilty security forces. How come no security man was killed when 2 terrorists were killed?"

Terrorism can never be blamed on anyone without pulling down Hindus in general or the security forces. Minorities are always innocent, always victims and the politicians are always "innocent, neutral., secular" and talking shit with a retinue of fake liberals and media people parroting this endlessly

This is no way to run a goddam country.

Sooner or later, even the armed forces are going to feel the idiocy.

There is going to be a Hindu blowback if our "secular" politicians and media continue to use Hindus and the security forces like toilet paper to wipe away anything they see as dirt while they mollycoddle people who need to join the mainstream rather than trying to remain separate and get separate privileged treatment.

Purohit of course will have to undergo the due process of law but why the fck should India be so bold in dealing with the truth when a Hindu is involved and so keen to "assuage" hurt feelings when Muslims are involved? This bias needs to go. Or the majority will have to force our blind politicians to understand that Hindus too have feelings and are NOT the toilet paper that they might seem to be.

Secularism in India is "Kick the Hindus, and mollycoddle anyone else"

Just my angry reaction to the rubbish I see going on around me.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby derkonig » 08 Nov 2008 16:38

You have come a long way Shiv ji; from your posts & diagrams in the Islamist Extremism thread which were rather mild & somewhat PC. Now that you do see things as they are it is very important that one doesn't relapse back into the 'chalta-hai' state of indifference and tolerance. Time for that went by a long ago. Its time the Hindus took back control of this land, its time for the Hindus to give up on the Gandhian mindset of inaction, appeasement, abetment, collusion & innate cowardice.
BTW, it is heartening to see Hindu orgs. coming to the aid of the army officer & the sadhvi.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shiv » 08 Nov 2008 17:17

Guess what? I met an old forum member a few hours ago and spent the afternoon with him. He is a chap I really admire for his work and intelligence (he is over a decade younger than I am)

He has moved back into town temporarily.

When he is not travelling in some remote parts of India he lives in a tribal area of Orissa, and he was telling me how, in that area, a decade ago, there was a population of about 2000 people -- about 25% Muslim and a handful of tribals.

10 years later, there are 10,000 Muslims - a huge majority of them illegal Bangladeshis.

The area is his own chosen hometown and he apparently was going for his usual jog of 6-7 km on the usual route - and he came across three obviously Muslim teenagers who hooted and jeered him. He initially took no notice but on his way back one of the kids derisively stopped him and asked him what he was doing. My friend got mad, and gave them an earful and went back to their village and told off the people whom he knew and the father/s of the kids. They apologized and said that they did not know he was a local. That got him more angry.

Basically these migrants are sending out the signal that anyone who passes by the area they now occupy are "outsiders". This is typical dar ul Islam tendency being shown. This sentiment has been expressed by many on this forum - and I have usually been irritated at the cowardice of the people who have admitted felling intimidated and I am glad to say that my friend did what was right.

But intimidation and "Don't wander into our area" does go on. Right here in India. And you know what- you express a sentiment and it goes to the national minorities commission.

Let me post another little factoid. A few weeks ago when we were discussing some heavy and serious concerns on a thread - one person was on another forum talking about what was being said on here with a view to reporting it to the national minorities commission.

How about that?

Are you Hindu?

Shut up then.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 17:21

Wow! I was just coming to delete this thread, my VERY FIRST deletion of an actual, live, chair-throwing thread, BUT ..... :mrgreen:

The fact is that there IS a lot of "VICTIMISATION!" yelling going on, from the usual circles, I am happy to note, BUT, it hasn't reached the sophistication that the IMC and CPI(M) have refined over the centuries. Not by a long way.

So far I don't see the solid basis for claiming that this is a frame-up. Shiv's point IIUC is that there isn't enough popular outcry that it is a frameup, but that's like me saying: "Why aren't the Indian players calling the Australians names every ball?" Well..... maybe because we are a bit more civilized?

But what I HOPE this thread will do, is to lay out the cold facts as they can be determined. So far in reading the "This is a frameup!" yells, what I gather is:

1. Lt. Col Purohit's so-called "confession", ain't. An ATS officer speaking on condition of anonymity as he was going off duty, etc. is reported to have told someone else something to the effect that "No, I don't think he has confessed to anything". OK, it is very hard to come by actual evidence when the govt. is the one doing the frameup, but this only constitutes a starting point.

2. I see the PIONEER yelling that the "presumption of innocence has been trashed". Yes, I agree, but I have to :rotfl: :rotfl: at an INDIAN newspaper making this point. IN WHAT CASE has the presumption of innocence been respected so far? The whole point of making "Anti-Terrorism Laws" like the "majority" has been yelling for, IS to trash the presumption of innocence, put people behind bars for indefinite periods so they can be tortured and the external wounds have time to heal before they are brought before courts etc.

3. The Army says he was elswhere when the bombs went off. Yeah, but the accusation is of conspiracy and providing the logistics and material.

4. The Army says "RDX is kept at ordnance factories and he couldn't have got to them". Excuse me, but this is another :rotfl: A serving Lt. Col can't figure out how to get a small packet of RDX??? That does not work, sorry.

5. That the other army detainee has also been tortured. Yes, this is a horrible aspect of Indian "law enforcement". Even the street kids caught near my hometown, accused of stealing ornaments from the local temple, were tortured - OF COURSE, because the Police were so "SURE" it was they who must have done it. It turned out later that it was the Holy Temple Committee President who was doing the stealing.

6. The Army says that it may be true that the Col. was part of some organization with one of dem suspiciously "extremist" sounding names - defined by the p-secs as anything that takes more literacy than a "british-sounding name". Then the Army goes on to say that it is INVESTIGATING and WAITING FOR THE REPORT to decide whether to punish him for BEING a member of that organisation!!!!! Hellooo!!! So IS it haraam for Army aphsars to become members of non-political but religious organizations? Or is the Army saying that this organisation is indeed terrorist?

Based on the above, it is quite clear that the Army statements convey "404" ness. So, for all they know, the Col. could well be a Martian, for all that the Army knows.

So I hope we see some solid logic and facts presented here, given that we have shiv actively participating. As I explained on a thread that did get deleted, I DO believe there are good reasons to suspect a conspiracy, but should we, on "Bharat RAKSHAK", be making blind accusations of conspiracy against Indian Law Enforcement?

Where is Acharya when we need him?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby sum » 08 Nov 2008 17:35

But, every report since the blasts had mentioned them as crude bombs...How did RDX suddenly enter the picture? :-? :-?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shiv » 08 Nov 2008 17:49

sum wrote:But, every report since the blasts had mentioned them as crude bombs...How did RDX suddenly enter the picture? :-? :-?


Well the implication is that army RDX was used. But the fact is an act of terrorism occurred and an army officer has been implicated pending investigation.

Could anyone possibly hazard any guess as to why an army offiicer might want to support such an act?

If he is shown to be guilty, and if he is not insane, what could his motivation have been?

Babri masjid? Gujarat riots? Each of those events has been quoted as "justification" for random terrorist acts. I am unaware of any other "legitimata and genuine" reasons for killimng peopel at random other than Babri Maskid, Gujarat riots and suppression of Kashmiris.

Perhaps if a terrorism supporter could show that he was motivated to commit terrorist acts by one of the three above mentioned reasons he could be dealt with leniently because we all know that Babri Masjid, Gujarat riots and Kashmir are "genuine reasons" for which terrorism has been permanently accepted in India by our media and polity.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 17:57

Revenge for Aurangzeb? :P

In fact the "Army Officer Says He Did It Out of Revenge" headline has already appeared, shiv.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby SRoy » 08 Nov 2008 18:06

^^
The ATS would like us to believe that an officer from the Army Intelligence does not know how to cover his tracks.

The ATS would further like to sell the line that the Army (or for that matter any of Services) do not what their personnels are up to.

Perhaps the ATS should come up with a more credible plot considering the fact the intelligence setup of the Services also are tasked with surveillance of their own personnel.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 18:11

SRoy, the easy response to that it took the ATS 2 years to find the lead, and when it was found, it was because there were other people involved, who were NOT "Army intelligence".

Also, the claim that the Army knows the extra-curricular activities of every officer, esp. one as senior as this, won't hold water. We don't want to start listing what "The Army" has been shown not to know in time, hey?

Note: I am just listing the counter-arguments to the claims that the "FrameUp!" lobby has been advancing. So far, IMO, the lobby has advanced nothing that can be taken seriously by the ppl of "ChaltaHai"stan.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby SRoy » 08 Nov 2008 18:13

shiv wrote:
sum wrote:But, every report since the blasts had mentioned them as crude bombs...How did RDX suddenly enter the picture? :-? :-?


Well the implication is that army RDX was used. But the fact is an act of terrorism occurred and an army officer has been implicated pending investigation.

Could anyone possibly hazard any guess as to why an army offiicer might want to support such an act?


What if the officer himself is a plant to tar the Army and the political right wing? Two birds with one arrow. What explains ready admission of guilt?

An Intelligence Officer cracks up in a single interrogation session? He being the proclaimed king pin and planner does not even know how to wipe out evidence? Too bad for an intelligence officer. In fact too good to be true.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 18:16

Aha! So the officer falls on his own sword, readily. Yes, Isn't That Convenient?

Isn't that "definite proof", that the rot actually leads way up? The plot must have been set in motion in April 2004, by the Highest Offices, knowing that they were going to lose elections, maybe?

Would a Lt. Col fall on his own sword, for just a Col? For a Brigadier? For a Lt. Gen? Unlikely. So it MUST lead way, way up... ????

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby SRoy » 08 Nov 2008 18:28

N^3

Two things here.

One, do not underestimate the intelligence setups. Yes, co-curricular are monitored, depends on how you define it.
AF/Military policeman in mufti posted outside the local town brothel or a Sqn. Ldr. passing off as a missile fitter bidding his time in Airmen billet. Examples are many.

Secondly. Why do you discount the theory of a deliberate plant? How was the Samba spy case built? "Confessions" of two OR's that ruined many.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby SwamyG » 08 Nov 2008 18:54

By the time, Hindus realize the extent of fake secularism, India would have lost real territories. And lost territories can not be reclaimed. Forget Akhand Bharat, Bharat might not even on Akhada left.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 18:58

See, here's the fatal weakness of the "majority community".

I am NOT "discounting the plant theory" (as I thought I stated clearly enough at the outset). But unless your arguments are designed only for the ears of admiring co-majority-community-enthusiasts, they have to stand up to counter-arguments. "Do not underestimate Army Intelligence" is not an argument that will find any intelligent takers. In fact the term "Army Intelligence" is considered an oxymoron by many in the whole Duniya, as unfair as that may be.

Let me show you how easy that is to debunk - here is a SENIOR officer, with hajaar experience in Army Intel. Can u argue that HE doesn't know how well the Army vets and monitors its own people? Does HE not know how to circumvent that, if he has any intelligence?

And the claim is also that he became member of a "HRWE" organization. Can u argue that there is any shortage of wacko extremist organizations in the great state of Maharashtra? The SS comes to mind...

The articles in "The Pioneer" and unfortunately much of what I see on our dear "other forum", are precisely this - designed only for the admiring reader with brains in rah-rah mode, and trishools out to wave at all and sundry.

Of course, while the discussion here is civilized, whenever I try to point this out to the Holies, I get the "Blessed Bhasmasura" type response, followed in short order by their getting their Feelings Hurt and going around screaming. Until "we" learn to be a bit more rigorous in our claims, findings, propaganda, whatever you want to call it, we have no hope.

The reason why I spend so much time on BRF these days is that it is very quiet on my email, since I used a systematic, disciplined approach and used BRF-learned tactics to determine whom I should put in my "bounce and delete" filter. :mrgreen:

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Muppalla » 08 Nov 2008 19:05

shiv wrote:
sum wrote:But, every report since the blasts had mentioned them as crude bombs...How did RDX suddenly enter the picture? :-? :-?


If he is shown to be guilty, and if he is not insane, what could his motivation have been?

Babri masjid? Gujarat riots? Each of those events has been quoted as "justification" for random terrorist acts. I am unaware of any other "legitimata and genuine" reasons for killimng peopel at random other than Babri Maskid, Gujarat riots and suppression of Kashmiris.

Perhaps if a terrorism supporter could show that he was motivated to commit terrorist acts by one of the three above mentioned reasons he could be dealt with leniently because we all know that Babri Masjid, Gujarat riots and Kashmir are "genuine reasons" for which terrorism has been permanently accepted in India by our media and polity.



He cannot be shown leniency. As one great person :mrgreen: on this forum said, there is a problem with the current young generation of Hindus. As they are always polluting the BR threads, some of their counterparts in Army etc. are resorting to this trecherous path. They all should be condemned to death so that India will neither has "Hindu Terror" not BR will have pollution. Good riddence.
Last edited by Muppalla on 08 Nov 2008 19:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Abhi_G » 08 Nov 2008 19:08

Yesterday the media reported of the Lt. Col "admitting" something but the ATS officers refused to comment. Today, the Pioneer reports that there is no direct link between the officer and the blasts.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/133109/%E2% ... 80%99.html

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby SRoy » 08 Nov 2008 19:17

^^^

N^3, point taken.

However. If the Lt. Col. can circumvent the surveillance apparatus then he is expected to display the same tact while planning a bomb blast (i.e. cover tracks). That is unless he wishes otherwise and hence the plant theory.

The "Other Forum" / Pioneer notwithstanding, I'm not yet contesting the fact that the officer has actually done this. Lets wait for material evidence that corroborates his confession.

He might have actually done this. But why?

1. "Plant theory".
2. Disgruntled Hindu.

If #2, then there will be many more.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 19:43

How's this?

1. The officer's official credentials may have been used on orders to get the RDX from the factory ("for National Security Purposes, Don't Ask Questions!"). Not hard to do, hey, for others inside Army Intel? Signature-faking etc. should come very easily....

2. Someone may have faked the Saadhvi's appearance (not hard to do, probably head covered, face with lots of turmeric, sandalwood paste, vibhooti, kumkum etc) and her ID, to buy the SIM card.

3. Someone may actually have called the nutcase who was ordered to take the Saadhvi's moped (did she really ride a motorbike?) and the RDX and place it outside the mosque.

4. Some may have called the guy, FROM a cellphone with the Saadhvi's SIM, and chewed him out for failing to kill more ppl.

5. So from the bomb-placer's pov, he got a call as he was told to expect to get, from the Saaadhvi. He did his assignment, and then he got called by the same voice and same number, and chewed out.

6. The SIM-seller is sure that he sold it to someone who looked very much like the Saadhvi, and he sure ain't retracting that, because if the Saadhvi goes free, then he is still on the hook for selling the SIM to terrorists.

7. The Lt Col has to admit that the signature LOOKS like his, the stationery is from his office, the office stamp is his. But he says "I had NOTHING to do with this!"

8. The ATS says: "Aha! Likely story! Army intelligence just hands out their seals to anyone? WHO can sneak inside a LT. COL's office and steal this? Will an Army facility just hand over a packet of RDX without VERIFYING the orders?"

9. Everyone wants to CYA by saying: "IMPOSSIBLE! DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE ARMY INTELLIGENCE!"
(no offence, I am showing how it all fits)

10. So now the ATS babus claim they have cracked the case. Smart ATS officers have grave doubts.

Fits all the facts reported so far.

So WHY frameup? That's easy. There I agree with what all the Holies say, except that there a hajaar reasons. This is why you should check back several months, as to WHEN the first hints came out that such a "revelation" would be the way to go. IIRC, several blasts ago, the IMC, AIM, and their India-based chamchas declared that "Police must investigate the blasts conducted by Hindu Terrorists as Well!" and mentioned two cases. One was the Darwin Award Winner in UP who managed to inflate himself. I wondered which one the other was - now I see it.

Also look at the extreme coverage of this investigation in YAWN etc.

The Malegaon blast was, IMO, set off precisely to target Hindus, and the Indian Army, and it was probably done by the same crowd that did the other blasts. Except these were a bit more sophisticated in the frameup.

My opinion is that if the Army officer was really involved, and some gang really wanted "revenge", and he went to all the trouble of getting RDX etc., knowing that these would eventually be traced to him, he would have gone for a truckload, and turned the mosque into a parking lot with all inside.

No sense in doing fedayeen, just to do a blast where the obvious intent was to minimize the number of casualties.

BUT.. I have no evidence, so I cannot argue this. I do think the above fits all the reported facts to-date.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shiv » 08 Nov 2008 19:59

But for anyone implicated in ANY blast the right "way forward" would be to blame it on Babri Masjid or Gujarat riots. These, after all are "genuine reasons" to allow blasts in this country forever since the majority community is out to get the minorities. Right?

When you have a genuine grievance you must go easy on the people with genuine grievances like Gujarat and Babri masjid. You need to back off, lay off and self flagellate. Bomb someone and say 'i did it because of Babri Masjid, Gujarat riots, burning Muslims etc. This is the blowback"

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby SRoy » 08 Nov 2008 20:01

Further posts when we come across more news reports on the issue.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 08 Nov 2008 20:05

Aha! So the BJP does an elaborate frame-up, but then also gets its agents to "confess" readily, so that the minority-appeasing (I mean, "secular") government is discredited. An elaborate Hindootva plot to win majority in next election, no doubt. Is this Chankian or what? :mrgreen:

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby negi » 08 Nov 2008 20:58

Ok.. so chootiyapa has started.

Muslims will be given preference in police jobs: Vilasrao

"A special officer from Muslim community would be appointed for the police recruitment so that the community people can get more scope in the police department," the Chief Minister said in the function of the Federation of All Minority Educational Organisation at Haj House here.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Avinash R » 08 Nov 2008 21:05

negi wrote:Muslims will be given preference in police jobs: Vilasrao

"A special officer from Muslim community would be appointed for the police recruitment so that the community people can get more scope in the police department," the Chief Minister said in the function of the Federation of All Minority Educational Organisation at Haj House here.

This is what is known as communalism the police, which the commie media will spin as fine example of secularism. :evil:

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby SwamyG » 08 Nov 2008 21:14

Oh yeah they are spinning alrighty. Check the india-unity forms. There seems to be hazaar concerted efforts, thousand memorandums to PM; there is even talk about Obama's Hindutva connection :-) Yeah seriously.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Zin » 08 Nov 2008 21:20

shiv wrote:Guess what? I met an old forum member a few hours ago and spent the afternoon with him. He is a chap I really admire for his work and intelligence (he is over a decade younger than I am)

He has moved back into town temporarily.

When he is not travelling in some remote parts of India he lives in a tribal area of Orissa, and he was telling me how, in that area, a decade ago, there was a population of about 2000 people -- about 25% Muslim and a handful of tribals.

10 years later, there are 10,000 Muslims - a huge majority of them illegal Bangladeshis.

The area is his own chosen hometown and he apparently was going for his usual jog of 6-7 km on the usual route - and he came across three obviously Muslim teenagers who hooted and jeered him. He initially took no notice but on his way back one of the kids derisively stopped him and asked him what he was doing. My friend got mad, and gave them an earful and went back to their village and told off the people whom he knew and the father/s of the kids. They apologized and said that they did not know he was a local. That got him more angry.

Basically these migrants are sending out the signal that anyone who passes by the area they now occupy are "outsiders". This is typical dar ul Islam tendency being shown. This sentiment has been expressed by many on this forum - and I have usually been irritated at the cowardice of the people who have admitted felling intimidated and I am glad to say that my friend did what was right.

But intimidation and "Don't wander into our area" does go on. Right here in India. And you know what- you express a sentiment and it goes to the national minorities commission.


Words of wisdom but i bet this wont last long.
Tommorow it will be again evil yindoos are bad and muslims are persecuted talk.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby shiv » 08 Nov 2008 21:23

negi wrote:Ok.. so chootiyapa has started.

Muslims will be given preference in police jobs: Vilasrao

"A special officer from Muslim community would be appointed for the police recruitment so that the community people can get more scope in the police department," the Chief Minister said in the function of the Federation of All Minority Educational Organisation at Haj House here.



This is all very well. But let me quote the experience of a person I know. He had to assess a particular government depts functioning and found some serious incompetence and wrote it in his report. The officer in charge of that dept happened to be a Muslim, a woman at that.

What did she do? She went to the minorities commission and complained of harrassment - complaining about a person like many of us here who have spent our entire lifetimes being "fair" and never discriminating. This is what galls me and changes my attitudes. You give a inch and you get taken for a ride for a mile. Of course the case is going nowhere - with secular people people trying to hush up the incompetence and my acquaintance deciding to fight it out.

When this nation is turning former "liberal seculars" into skeptics - there is a serious problem.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Muppalla » 08 Nov 2008 21:31

shiv wrote:This is all very well. But let me quote the experience of a person I know. He had to assess a particular government depts functioning and found some serious incompetence and wrote it in his report. The officer in charge of that dept happened to be a Muslim, a woman at that.

What did she do? She went to the minorities commission and complained of harrassment - complaining about a person like many of us here who have spent our entire lifetimes being "fair" and never discriminating. This is what galls me and changes my attitudes. You give a inch and you get taken for a ride for a mile. Of course the case is going nowhere - with secular people people trying to hush up the incompetence and my acquaintance deciding to fight it out.

When this nation is turning former "liberal seculars" into skeptics - there is a serious problem.


This a very common tactic used so far. One more example is Md.Azharuddin and match fixing case. He was cornered by CBI using all sorts of evidence. He publicly came out with a statement saying that he is being targeted becasue he is from a minority community inspite of him being idolized and was put on the top of cricket in India. In this case he felt humanly guilty and withdrew his comment later.

Let us see if Salman Khan does not use the same tactics if he is convicted.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Avinash R » 08 Nov 2008 21:37

Muppalla wrote:Let us see if Salman Khan does not use the same tactics if he is convicted.

The man salman killed (by driving over his body while he was sleeping) was a muslim. In this case he cant cry i am being framed. It's another matter that the prime witness ,his bodyguard provided by mum police, has died.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Muppalla » 09 Nov 2008 02:29

Take what ever it is worth as it is coming from Daily Pioneer and not TOI, IBN or HT

Army, ATS at loggerheads

T N Raghunatha | Mumbai

Malegaon probe plummets into political game

The ongoing probe into the Malegaon blast case is fast receding into a dirty political game with far-reaching consequences, one of which is putting the Indian Army at loggerheads with Maharashtra’s Anti-Terror Squad.

At a time when a section of the media is having a field day reporting on selective leaks by ATS, Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh has created a stir by saying: "Several big persons are involved in the blast and their names may come out in the probe.”

With the ATS still in the midst of a probe, Deshmukh's statement, made at a function to celebrate completion of four years of Congress-led Democratic Front Government's rule in the State, has surprised many.

His prophesy – coupled with the fact that State Congress' poll propaganda chief Gurudas Kamat also went for the kill demanding the arrest of Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray for supporting blast accused Sadhvi Pragya — has exposed the Congress' game-plan to derive maximum political mileage out of the probe for its forthcoming Assembly poll campaign in five States. What is more disturbing is the apprehension that the State Government is using the ATS to exploit the blast politically to take on Hindu outfits in the polls.

First, Deshmukh's statement indicates he is privy to "details" of investigations. Second, Maharashtra leaders, have gone the whole hog in politicising the probe.

The ATS, too, has done its bit to abet the Congress gameplan by systematically and selectively leaking information damning not only Hindu organisations but also the Indian Army, a move which is testing now its own credibility.

On one hand, ATS chief Hemant Karkare refused to discuss with the media on November 3, 2008 the issues relating to a 15-page transcript of a purported telephonic chat between the Sadhvi and absconding "blast mastermind" Ramji Kalsangara which the prosecution produced at a Nashik court earlier in the day.

On the other, sections of the media have been singing — be it on what transpired during questioning of the accused or "confessions" by the Sadhvi and Purohit, or who has been detained, who will be arrested next or even how many more serving and ex-Armymen are being questioned. Observers attribute the “comprehensive media coverage” more to the enthusiasm of ATS in sharing "information" with select journalists than reporters’ zeal. Most reports quote "ATS sources". This despite the fact that the ATS chief has said, “I cannot reveal much".

Sample the contradictions in reportage: Sadhvi Pragya has long been projected as the key player; in her narco test, she denied her role but justified the blast; Ramji is the "mastermind" who planted the explosive-laden mobike at Bikhu Chowk. Purohit is also a “mastermind” for allegedly organising RDX and providing funds. Reports have speculated, without any evidence, that a high ranking Army officer like him "could have access to explosives in Army depots".

Denying reports that Purohit supplied RDX, Army sources said no unit, let alone an officer, has access to explosives which is in the sole custody of ordnance factories.

Serious doubts are being expressed on whether the ATS has enough evidence to nail the accused it has arrested so far and whether the evidence would stand in court.

The other, and far more crucial fallout, is that the Army and ATS are at loggerheads, a situation which may lead to deeper trouble. Though the Army has been assisting the ATS, its brass is perturbed over the manner in which Purohit’s so-called confessions have been leaked.

Though the ATS has denied doing this, the Army feels such leaks are discrediting the entire institution, sources said on Saturday. They also denied reports that other serving officers are under the scanner even as the ATS picked up two more persons from Pune and Vapi in connection with the probe.


This is the first-ever case of a serving officer being arrested for such an act. Quoting the excellent track record of the Armed Force, informed Army sources said no evidence had come up in the ATS investigations.

However, the leaks have already labelled Purohit guilty, they said, adding that the Lt Col was not a mastermind as reported. The Army has requested presence of Military Intelligence men during Purohit’s brain mapping.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Sanku » 09 Nov 2008 14:10

Dear friends;

India as we know is in the process of destruction by the blessed UP of A. All known Indian establishments are being deliberately sabotaged one by one and the values that the Indian system has stood for is being systematically destroyed from the VERY TOP. This is not incompetence -- this is intelligent design; the numbers of such incidents are chronicled in various threads to recount here but include Parliament (constant lying in the Parliament; fulfillment of promises down to 20% etc). Army -- pay commission, deliberate attempts to demean the whole army through one minor hokey act. Nuclear establishment and what have you.

I think we can easily put two and two together who is behind it all and why now. This is not internal politics we are discussing but something else altogether.

However IMVHO this is the final denouement of the artificial constructs that have been imposed on India since day one and increasing with time.

We are approaching the time of a major shakedown in India it is but in the making. Let us prepare -- We have the next round of the battle of Talikotla coming up.

Regards
Sanku

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 09 Nov 2008 18:01

Muppallaji: I am not able to see what in those bolded statements is unusual. The only things I find shocking there are the casual references to

the saadhvi's narco tests


and

The officer's brain-mapping


Where do these fit under the concept of "innocent unless and until proven guilty" and "right against self-incrimination"?
Aren't these torture? Putting a nun (which is what the Saadhvi would be if she were Xtian) under "narcotics"? Do they mean Scopalamine like the Nazis were using in "Where Eagles Dare" or is it something fancier than that?

What is "brain mapping"? Is India so advanced that Indian police can just read and download what is in the brain cells of humans, and exactly where these are located?

What happened to "rights of the accused?" Will these innocents (since they have not been proven guilty by any process, kangaroo. Jirga or otherwise) ever be the same again after they have been shot full of narcotics and "brain-mappped"?

Where is the outrage against these sorts of methods?

Ahem, I guess they beat "uruttal" and beating the soles of the feet, and hanging by the fingers, or hanging upside dow for days, ir just plain kicking and beating? Or are these complementary to those usual police procedures?

Maybe a few years from now Daily Pioneer will be writing

The Army has requested that one of its officers be invited to the vivisection of the accused
?

Isn't it true, though, that this sort of moral scar tissue, incapable of asking these questions, results from centuries of "interviewing" suspects on the premise of Edwin Meese, Dishonorable and fortunately Dead Former Attorny General of the USA:

Why would you be a suspect unless you are guilty?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Rye » 09 Nov 2008 18:08

narayanan, what is up with your dumping on methods found useful to Indian police? what exactly is so bad about narco-analysis..that it was invented in India?
Last edited by Rye on 09 Nov 2008 19:30, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 09 Nov 2008 18:11

Rye, you have been warned by others b4 not to come in leading with your chin and foul language. I am of course not warning anyone, just stating a fact. Edit it yourself, please.

Do you have some counter-arguments or facts, or does "BS" constitute the extent of your thought process here?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Rye » 09 Nov 2008 18:14

deleted
Last edited by Rye on 09 Nov 2008 19:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 09 Nov 2008 18:18

Rye, you are right I have the "ban" button, but since there are so few Pakis here for entertainment, I won't use it on you - it's so much fun to watch you. So you DON'T have any facts or counter-arguments, maybe you have been on a bit of "narco-analysis" yourself, judging from your two posts above?

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Rye » 09 Nov 2008 18:22

deleted
Last edited by Rye on 09 Nov 2008 23:53, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 09 Nov 2008 18:23

Scooting, I presume? Yeah, I am here to wipe your musharraf for you, sure. Clean up after yourself, or let everyone see what you are. It's all the same to me.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Avinash R » 09 Nov 2008 18:28

narayanan wrote:Aren't these torture? Putting a nun (which is what the Saadhvi would be if she were Xtian) under "narcotics"? Do they mean Scopalamine like the Nazis were using in "Where Eagles Dare" or is it something fancier than that?

Subjecting an accused to an narco analysis test or an brain mapping test after taking permission from the courts is not torture.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby Avinash R » 09 Nov 2008 18:28

Maha Govt, police harassing Sadhvi Pragya: Rajnath
Nov 08, 2008

New Delhi, November 8: BJP chief Rajnath Singh on Saturday accused the Maharashtra government and police of harassing Malegaon blast suspect Sadhvi Pragya Singh in the name of investigation.

"It seems that Pragya Thakur is being harassed in the name of investigation. Not even a terrorist is subjected to tests three to four times as she has been subjected to," he said on the sidelines of a party function.

"There is definitely a role of the Maharashtra government and police in this whole episode," he said.

Nine persons, including Sadhvi Pragya Thakur, having allegiance to a right-wing Hindu outfit, and a serving lieutenant colonel have been arrested in connection with the Malegaon blast.

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Re: Malegaon blasts and the limits of fake secularism

Postby enqyoob » 09 Nov 2008 18:32

Subjecting an accused to an narco analysis test or an brain mapping test after taking permission from the courts is not torture.


Thank you, that's my point, by the way - that Indians have become so inured to torture that they would say that. So it is "permission from the courts" not "suspect asked for it to clear himself/herself"?

Has anyone studied the long-term effects of "narco-analysis" or "brain-mapping"? Just what are these fine "Indian inventions" that sound so sophisticated?


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