Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Patni » 05 Dec 2008 00:26

ramana wrote:patni the whole sequence of events at Cama Hospital has to be reconstructed. Why was it ene target? After teh CST shooting the two terrorists went to the hospital and got into a shootut with S Date and injured him. Waht is at Cama hospital to attract these fellows? And what did they plan to do where they were going in the Skoda? I know the nakabandi stopped them but what were there plans?




The only thing i can think about for cama is it being next door to crime branch head office with relatively thick coverage of trees and shades to hide behind while also being at walking distance from CST / Police Headquarter etc. Its basically 300 feet away from CST and is a soft target plenty of hostages about if they wanted or needed to bargain since it is a hospital for women and children. But no attempts were made to break into any of the wards they basically strolled into cama campus and fired at few cops at gate and went up all the way to sixth floor taking one of of the wardboy/employee with them. stayed hidden and didnt fire a single round for next 30 min or so doing God knows what but they sure did grabbed a cell phone from a person before they went up to terrace. The encounter with S date happened when they were on the way down. Date was injured by a grenade blast. From time perspective it got to be close to 10:30 to 10:40 PM by then. they get out of the hospital building and hide in its compound which according to me should be full of cops by then seeing that it shares a compound wall with police station next door. ATS chief and salaskar etc gets to know about the date injury and decide to rush to cama and should take no more then 2 minute for them to get there from CST, heck you can blow a whistle at CST and can hear it at cama. The entire strech of road connecting CST junction to Metro junction is no longer then 800 meters maybe. They ambush the vehicle get inside and cruise to metro where they are captured live on tv ( I wish for someone to provide exact time of that footage). I have shown the path they took and time line in that google map. They go south and fire near assembly building (mantralay) get a tire burst and hijack the skoda. Now normally it takes about 10 minutes for that part of drive (I used to use exact same route twice a day for 12 years) so they would have got into skoda near about 10:50 PM and then off to north on marine drive which they were positively racing on as they cover the next 3 to 4 km from mantralay to the road block spot in about next 5 minutes as I have accurate time of encounter at chowpaty roadblock to be 10:55PM. Also know that they stopped 40 to 50 meter short of road block have read story that the two tried to take a U turn but ran into road divider and then got out as if trying to surrender but then started firing. one brave cop rushed the girly pig and grabbed hold of the barrel of the gun taking most all the bullets and died but only after ensuring his fellow cops nabbed the terrorist alive.

I think they were trying to reach a beach head other then Badhwar park to south only open beach face where they can climb back into a rubber dingy is at chowpati or they might have been on the way towards rajbhavan which is on other end of queen's neckless.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby AkshayM » 05 Dec 2008 00:28

Cama hospital may not be target initially. There was CST footage which showed terrorists looking for a car, trying to open car doors. They didn't find any. This could be after they were done shooting inside CST. Most likely they were told to go to cama hospital as Karkare, Salaskar headed off in that direction. Remember they kept snatching cell phone from people.

Very very likely that terrorist supporting insider inside Maharashtra government tipped off someone who may have in turn told terrorists to head off to cama. cama is hardly 3-4 mins walk from cst. cama is not at the tip of Mahapalika Marg so I don't think it would give perfect vantage point to overlook Metro (theatre) junction. Besides that junction wouldn't have provided any advantage because there are other ways to by pass that and reach Taj and Oberoi for security and police forces. So only explanation could be they explicitly went to cama to gun down officials of police. I don't think they knew exactly who it was just that they were senior. it also ties in to the fact that they even waited 30mins or so for encounter.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Patni » 05 Dec 2008 00:39

AkshayM wrote:Cama hospital may not be target initially. There was CST footage which showed terrorists looking for a car, trying to open car doors. They didn't find any. This could be after they were done shooting inside CST. Most likely they were told to go to cama hospital as Karkare, Salaskar headed off in that direction. Remember they kept snatching cell phone from people.

Very very likely that terrorist supporting insider inside Maharashtra government tipped off someone who may have in turn told terrorists to head off to cama. cama is hardly 3-4 mins walk from cst. cama is not at the tip of Mahapalika Marg so I don't think it would give perfect vantage point to overlook Metro (theatre) junction. Besides that junction wouldn't have provided any advantage because there are other ways to by pass that and reach Taj and Oberoi for security and police forces. So only explanation could be they explicitly went to cama to gun down officials of police. I don't think they knew exactly who it was just that they were senior. it also ties in to the fact that they even waited 30mins or so for encounter.


Nope the event sequence was they entered CST from south main entrance of local train started shooting went all the way to other end to where long distance trains starts from walked back and then walked the length of local train platform number one and used the overbridge to come out next to TOI building and took the street between TOI and Anjuman islam school and approached cama from its back entrance. As you said yourself its no more then 300 meter walk from CST north bridge to back entrance of cama. They surely didnt go to cama after karkare etc went towards it, remember they went to cama only after they learnt about date was injured at cama when terrorists were coming down from terrace after staying hidden for 30 min. On previous page of this thread i have posted a detail account of what happened at cama.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 05 Dec 2008 01:08

Thanks guys but still keep at it.

So the taxi blasts and the Cama shootings were diversions. The main attack was on four places: CST, Taj, Trident and Nariman House. All else was unfortunate diversions.

Folks did they find any abandoned or stowed dinghy in the places that Patni suggests as possible route ends for the two terrorists?

I think they were trying to reach a beach head other then Badhwar park to south only open beach face where they can climb back into a rubber dingy is at chowpati or they might have been on the way towards rajbhavan which is on other end of queen's neckless.


It would then tie with the girlie pig's story of seeking to get back.
Patni from you reconstruction these two's job was to create maximum mayhem and diversion. Appears they succeeded in casuing over one third of the killings. ~ 70 of the 179 killed. God knows how many injured.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Patni » 05 Dec 2008 01:47

ramana wrote:Thanks guys but still keep at it.

So the taxi blasts and the Cama shootings were diversions. The main attack was on four places: CST, Taj, Trident and Nariman House. All else was unfortunate diversions.

Folks did they find any abandoned or stowed dinghy in the places that Patni suggests as possible route ends for the two terrorists?

I think they were trying to reach a beach head other then Badhwar park to south only open beach face where they can climb back into a rubber dingy is at chowpati or they might have been on the way towards rajbhavan which is on other end of queen's neckless.


It would then tie with the girlie pig's story of seeking to get back.
Patni from you reconstruction these two's job was to create maximum mayhem and diversion. Appears they succeeded in casuing over one third of the killings. ~ 70 of the 179 killed. God knows how many injured.


I have no doubt that there was a second dingy somewhere close. here is a report that says and i have seen the same story covered in tv media about two empty cover for outboard engines found on kuber along with assorted other things. So they had two engines on kuber one was used on dingy to land at Badhwar park so what happened to another one ? Also seems only 8 of they got off at Badhwar park maybe and not 10. there sure is more details that needs to be tracked down to get clearer picture.

things found on kuber

MITA NAIR & PRASHANT RANGNEKAR

MUMBAI: Sifting through the evidence left on board the Kuber, the Indian fishing trawler said to be hijacked by terrorists who took the sea route to attack Mumbai, Central and state agencies are following three leads in the investigation: the possibility of there being more than the 10 gunmen accounted for; coordinates for Diu set on the trawler’s Global Positioning System and the Pak origin of several items found on board.

Officials so far have said that nine terrorists were killed — four in the Taj, two each in Oberoi and the Nariman House and one in Girgaum — and one was captured alive. So what has perplexed investigators is the presence of over 15 blankets and the same number of “winter jackets” and toothbrushes on board Kuber. These jackets, sources said, are not the ones used by “regular fishermen.”

They have also found two engine covers and a second raft case on the trawler. This points to the possible presence of another raft that may have been used. Incidentally, eight winter jackets — besides the ones on Kuber — were found in the raft that the 10 terrorists are suspected to have used to enter the city.

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Several items on board have clear Pakistani labels:

• An empty diesel can of a petrol-filling station with a head-office address in Karachi

• Several shirts, T-shirts and trousers have “fake foreign branding” but there are “specific clothing items” with names of tailors in Pakistan.

• Toilet paper packet of Zik brothers, Karachi

• Packet of wheat flour from a Karachi shop, two detergent boxes manufactured in Pakistan.

• Touchme shaving cream made in Pakistan

• Dental gel, Medicam, also made in Pakistan

• Nestle milk packet with marking of Nestle Pakistan Limited.

• Namaaz cap from a shop with the phone code of Multan

• A few packets of a fairness cream shipped from Dubai

• Metal plate with picture of a gun with instructions in Urdu; three handcuffs with steel chains

Coast Guard officials say the GPS found on Kuber confirmed four waypoints-route maps that point to Karachi, Porbander, Diu and the Mumbai coast. The Diu angle needs to be probed, sources said, to explore whether some persons were offloaded there before the trawler reached Mumbai or “halted to escape vigil.”

Investigators are zeroing in on the 14 days after Kuber left Porbander with 2000 litres of diesel on November 13 and before it was found by the Coast Guard on November 27 to track its sea route. The distance between Karachi and the Mumbai coast is 569 nautical miles which can be covered in four days.


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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SandeepA » 05 Dec 2008 01:49

{Sandeep: this post was reported by a reader, citing strong concerns. After reading the source, I agree with the reader. This is Area 51 Alien type fantasy. The guy pretends to be quoting sources, but the crucial items are all rumors, shaped with malice. Please don't quote this blog here any more - look at the top line and you'll see something about what goes on between the ears of the Blogger. thx}
Last edited by enqyoob on 05 Dec 2008 02:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: investigated reader complaint

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Patni » 05 Dec 2008 08:06

Details on GT hospital firing.


'Terrorists wore caps, black blue jackets & a backpack'
Aditya Paul Posted: Nov 27, 2008 at 1614 hrs IST


Mumbai: India had just won a Cricket match, so when the shooting began outside the Cama and GT Hospital premises at around 10:30 pm, the Waghelas thought it was fans celebrating with fireccrackers.

Minutes later, they realised this was much more serious. But by then their elder son was dead. Thakur Waghela, 33, a sweeper at the GT Hospital, was shot dead inside his house.

"We saw the terrorists when we were standing outside our house. They were wearing caps, black and blue jackets and carried a backpack," said his brother, Bharat. "As the firing began at close quarters, we rushed inside our room."

Thakur was with his six-year-old son, Neeraj, in the adjoining house, having dinner and getting ready for the night shift at GT Hospital, along with his father Buddhabhai, who also works as a sweeper at the hospital.

"I saw the terrorists entering Thakur's room, and within seconds they fired a shot and moved out. We didn't dare open our door until Neeraj came out and said that his father was killed," recalled Bharat.

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"I don't know if anything could have been done to save Thakur at that point, but we were too scared and just shut the doors. It was after Neeraj came out that we gained some confidence and moved out," he said.

Thakur had been working at the hospital for the last nine years. His wife, who had gone to meet a cousin in Titwala, was not told about the incident till Thursday morning.

The grieving family said they always thought they were safe in the staff quarters of the hospital. "There is always a lot of security due to the police headquarters, the CST railway station and important buildings in the locality. So we didn't worry much about the firing at the railway station," said Buddhabhai. "But we didn't know that terrorists will enter our house and open fire." Another GT Hospital staffer, Bhagan Shinde, was also injured in the firing.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby AkshayM » 05 Dec 2008 10:24

Details on hospital attack.

City hospitals speak faces of horror

SMSes appealing to Mumbaikars for donating blood to over 900 injured were in circulation. A V Kulkarni, Dean of GT Hospital, which is adjacent to Cama Hospital where terrorists fired at on Wednesday night, said continuous gunshots were clearly being heard but the staff continued attending to the injured.


This proves they were not biding time but actively firing and attacking.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 05 Dec 2008 11:41

from Hindu

Details emerge on CIA terror plot warnings

Praveen Swami

September alerts suggest U.S. was monitoring LeT plans

MUMBAI: Indian intelligence sources have confirmed to The Hindu that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) delivered two warnings of an impending terror attack on Mumbai in September. The first one was delivered through the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) on September 18. The sources said the information was of a general nature, suggesting that the Lashkar-e-Taiba was planning to attack Mumbai.

The sources said that on September 24, the CIA provided further details in response to a request from the RAW. In this second warning, the U.S. agency expressly stated that the Lashkar was planning an attack on targets where large numbers of foreigners were present, including the Taj Mahal hotel.

Both warnings corroborate the testimony of the arrested Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist, Mohammad Ajmal Amir Iman. He told the Mumbai police that the original plan was to despatch the 10-man squad from Karachi to Mumbai on September 27. He also told the police interrogators that he did not know why the operation was deferred.

The warnings also corroborated the information generated by the Intelligence Bureau that suggested that the Lashkar had conducted reconnaissance operations in Mumbai.

A senior government official said the delay raised the possibility that the CIA had quietly exerted pressure on Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate to terminate the Lashkar operation.

In the alternative, he surmised, elements in the ISI may have leaked information that the CIA was monitoring the operation. “No intelligence agency discloses all it knows even to allies. So it is probable the CIA knows more than it told us in September. We hope more information will be forthcoming,” the official said.

Phone call trail

India is also hoping for assistance in accessing electronic evidence on phone calls made and received by the terrorists during the attack – which provided what one police described to The Hindu as a “running commentary” on the operation.

Forensic experts at the RAW have determined that the calls were routed through voice-over-internet service providers based in New Jersey and Vienna. VOIP services allow subscribers to create a virtual phone number, from which cheap international calls can be made and received.

{Is this one of the many services that advertise on desi channels?}

According to a source within the investigation, tracing the calls to their final destination posed “a formidable technical challenge.”

Mumbai police officials listening in to the conversation heard the terrorists inside the Taj Mahal hotel tell their controller that their operation had scored a “bonus” with the killing of the “Police Commissioner.”

The investigators believe that the terrorists inside the hotel had most likely seen television reports on the killing of Anti-Terrorism Squad chief and Joint Commissioner of Police Hemant Karkare.


As first reported in this newspaper, the terrorists used at least six mobile phones fitted with SIM cards purchased three weeks before the strike from Kolkata and New Delhi.

Kolkata police investigators have determined that three of the SIM cards used by the terrorists were part of a set of 10 Aircel and Vodaphone prepaid numbers purchased four weeks ago.

A city resident whose identification was used to buy the cards has been detained for questioning.

Delhi police officials also told The Hindu that efforts were on to discover who had purchased three other SIM cards.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Philip » 05 Dec 2008 12:23

Incredible if true,that we had in our hands from February,the Indian co-conspirator who had details,drawings,etc. oof the entire plot!

<Ansari "told us about a planned Lashkar attack on Bombay, on southern Bombay," said Mr Yash, referring to Mumbai by its previous name. "He gave us eight or nine specific locations where the attack would be carried out," he said, adding that Ansari had detailed sketches of the places and escape routes from the sites. >

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... india.html

Mumbai attacks: Indian operative 'helped Pakistani militants'
A Pakistani militant group used an Indian operative as far back as 2007 to scout targets for the elaborate plot against India's financial capital, authorities have said.

By Damien McElroy in Mumbai
Last Updated: 6:58AM GMT 05 Dec 2008

Indian 'connection': Investigators now suspect the attack on Mumbai could have received inside help from an Indian national Photo: GETTY
The discovery is a blow to Indian officials who have blamed the deadly attacks entirely on Pakistani extremists.

As investigators sought to unravel the attack on Mumbai, stepping up questioning of the lone captured gunman, airports across India were put on high alert amid fresh warnings that terrorists planned to hijack an aircraft.

Also Thursday, police said there were signs that some of the six victims of the attack on a Jewish center may have been tortured. "The victims were strangled," said Rakesh Maria, a senior Mumbai police official. "There were injuries noticed on the bodies that were not from firing."

Members of an Israeli rescue group which had a team in Mumbai said it was impossible to tell if the bodies had been abused, however, because no autopsies were conducted in accordance with Jewish tradition.

The surviving gunman, Ajmal Amir Kasab, 21, told interrogators he had been sent by the banned Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and identified two of the plot's masterminds, according to two Indian government officials familiar with the inquiry. Laskar, outlawed by Pakistan in 2002, has been deemed by the US to be a terrorist group with ties to al-Qaida.

Kasab told police that one of them, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Lashkar's operations chief, recruited him for the attack, and the assailants called another senior leader, Yusuf Muzammil, on a satellite phone after hijacking an Indian vessel en route to Mumbai.

The information sent investigators back to another reputed Lashkar operative, Faheem Ansari, who they hope could be key in pulling together different strands of the investigation.

Ansari, an Indian national, was arrested in February in north India carrying hand-drawn sketches of hotels, the train terminal and other sites that were later attacked in Mumbai, said Amitabh Yash, director of the Special Task Force of the Uttar Pradesh police.

During his interrogation, Ansari also named Muzammil as his handler in Pakistan, adding that he trained in a Lashkar camp in Muzaffarabad — the same area where Kasab said he was trained, a senior police officer involved in the investigation said.

Ansari "told us about a planned Lashkar attack on Bombay, on southern Bombay," said Mr Yash, referring to Mumbai by its previous name. "He gave us eight or nine specific locations where the attack would be carried out," he said, adding that Ansari had detailed sketches of the places and escape routes from the sites.

Ansari said he carried out the reconnaissance in the fall of 2007, and that it also included the U.S. consulate, the Bombay stock exchange and other Mumbai sites that were not attacked.

Ansari is now in Indian custody, according to Mr Yash.

The develoment comes after India triggered a massive security alert at its main airports after officials warned al-Qaeda was planning a 9/11 style attack using hijacked aircraft just days after the Mumbai atrocity.

Airports in New Delhi, Madras, Bangalore and Mumbai were put on "red alert" a week after 10 terrorists launched a devastating series of attacks on the commercial capital in which 171 people were killed.

The inclusion of Madras on the list threw renewed doubt on the England cricket team's winter tour, which had been due to resume in the city next week.

A decision on whether to return to India is due to be made after security experts report on security arrangements in the southern city.

Ram Gopal, Madras airport's general manager, said that special security measures, including the positioning of quick response unit, had been put in place. "This is due to certain intelligence inputs we have received," he said. "The entire perimeter of the airport will be guarded."

Defence Minister AK Antony ordered the mobilisation after intercepted emails and telephone calls indicated that Afghan and Pakistani terrorists had arrived in India with plans to hijack a civilian plane.

"A red alert has been sounded," said Digvijay Singh, commandant of Central Industrial Security Force, which protects key facilities "This is due to some intelligence inputs suggesting there will be attacks on the airport."

Fighter jets were placed on alert to protect the capital. The elite antiterrorist commando unit, the National Security Guard was placed on standby. Additional air marshals were placed on internal flights in "sensitive sectors." Armed plainclothes officers were posted outside the affected airports. Blockades were established at airports and bags of passengers were being checked for explosives.

"More aircraft have been sent to sectors where we were thin on the ground and so now we are adequately ready to respond to any militant attempt to use hijacked aircraft as flying missiles," an air force official said. "Any unidentified aircraft will be challenged from the ground and from the air."

Officials said that by modelling the attacks on the 2001 assault on America, al Qaeda hoped to gain a propaganda victory to coincide with Saturday's anniversary of the 1992 destruction of the 475-year-old Babri mosque in India's northeastern city of Ayodhya by Hindu extremists.

Under new guidelines from India's Civil Aviation Bureau, passengers have been advised to arrive up to four hours before flights to clear at least five rounds of security checks before boarding the aircraft.

India's vulnerability to further acts of Islamic terrorism was underlined yesterday by reports that the terrorists that attacked Mumbai last week had been equipped with mobile phone cards that had been bought in New Delhi and Calcutta in the last month.

India has blamed elements within Pakistan of carrying out the attacks. New Delhi has said the Kashmiri terrorist group Lashkar-e-Taiba, which operates from bases near Lahore, had planned and executed the attack.

But the organisational network behind the incident yesterday appeared to stretch far beyond Pakistan and was reliant on help from within India and its eastern neighbour, Bangladesh.

All the recovered cards were registered in the name of Hussain Ur Rehman, a resident of a district on the border with Bangladesh.

Dmitri Medvedev, Russia's president, declared the Kremlin was prepared to offer antiterrorist help to New Delhi as he prepared for a visit to India in which Moscow expects to secure valuable contracts to supply the Indian Navy. He said: "We are prepared for co-operation on all fronts with the aim of preventing such terrorist attacks, in the investigation of the recent terrorist attack and the creation of a global defence system against terrorism in the world."

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 05 Dec 2008 22:20

Raj Malhotra and Philip all these stories are telling us some thing which we are not seeing as they are revealed in bits and peices. Can you both use your deductive logic skills piece the story together?

I would start by putting all these facts on sticky notes and use a white board or wall and move them around to see what it tells us.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby enqyoob » 05 Dec 2008 22:26

part of a set of 10 Aircel and Vodaphone prepaid numbers purchased four weeks ago.

A city resident whose identification was used to buy the cards has been detained for questioning.


AoA! :eek: :eek: Just 2 or 3 weeks ago I tried to buy an Airtel SIM on the internet from outside India, for making international calls and use inside India.It's far and away the best deal available if you do the market survey on this application.

COMPLETELY out of stock, so I gave up. And it was really at AirTel, not the retailers, that the stock was out. Seemed a strange way to run a business during a recession, and nearing holiday travel season. Is this like the Snow Boots & Parkas market of 1999? Pakis have bought up all the available cellphone SIMS?

See this link - it's still out of stock.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Rye » 05 Dec 2008 22:41

Were there more than 10 terrorists who came into mumbai, and that one group of them were assigned a different terrorist attack involving an airline hijack? The paki goatbrains seem to have "calculated" that such a wave would severely reduce India's image and cause drop in international engagement, seeing as to how they are targetting economic centers/activities (the ba$tard Hussain Haqqani was the first one to recommend that Pakistan attack Indian economic centers a few years ago). But then, this was to be expected...the pakis will not go down without trying very hard to take India down with them all the way down to the septic tank of history where pakistan is headed.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2008 00:08

When we develop the time line start from the time Reidel and Rashid collaborated on the "give Kashmir" article, obama's interview/speech, the Sept 25 warning, the delay in the actual attack. there is something odd that they planned to launch the attack two months earlier and then delayed it? Were the tipped off by security leaks in India or US? Was Indian security really at fault or did they nod thinking it wont happen?

us the MS Visio template for Timelines. Its flexible.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SureshP » 07 Dec 2008 00:09

New US management will respect Pakistan sovereignty: McCain
Updated at: 2040 PST, Saturday, December 06, 2008
ISLAMABAD: Democratic presidential candidate in the recent US elections and US senator John McCain has said that America’s new management would respect the sovereignty of Pakistan.

He said this during a meeting with prime minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani here on Saturday.

On this occasion, senator McCain also said that the Pressler amendment was a blunder.

He said that during his presidential campaign, he had opposed the violation of Pakistan borders.

Regarding Mumbai carnage, Yousuf Raza Gilani said that Pakistan had offered India the setting up a joint commission.

The prime minister reiterated his resolve that the Pakistan territory would not be allowed to be used for terrorism.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=61884

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2008 00:13

Democratic candidate McCain? Anyway glad he didnt make it or it would be Powell redux!

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2008 00:37

Folks for starters use something like this

http://www.vertex42.com/ExcelArticles/c ... eline.html

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2008 02:55

There was an article that doctors found bullets marked with POF in the victims. Can some one post it here?

Thanks, ramana

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SaiK » 07 Dec 2008 03:10

Surgeons find over 100 Pakistan-made bullets


Vikram sharma
First Published : 29 Nov 2008 02:11:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 29 Nov 2008 08:00:38 AM IST

MUMBAI: Doctors
at the JJ Group of Hospitals have had “enough of Pakistan” during the last 48 hours. “It is a POF bullet again,” they would say after performing every surgery, that takes close to two hours.

While all their focus is on saving lives, what disturbs them is the increasing count of the bullets, all manufactured in Pakistan Ordnance Factory (POF). So far, the doctors have removed over 100 POF bullets. A container full of blood stained bullets says it all. "We have removed 100- odd bullets and handed them over to the police. A close look shows POF embossed on them which is certainly frustrating,” a senior orthapaedician, who did not wish to be identified, disclosed to Express.

The team of doctors is led by the dean B M Subnis, Dr Chandan Wale and Superintendent of the hospital H H Jadhav. “We have treated 127 victims so far and performed several surgeries. Seventeen have died as they suffered multiple bullet injuries,” said Dr Jadhav adding that the condition of four is critical.

“We have removed over a 100 bullets so far and cannot reveal much about their make,” the dean said. Most of those admitted to J J Hospital are the ones who were hit by fedayeen’s bullets at Chatrapathi Shivaji Terminus (CST). At this place alone, 47 innocent lives were lost.

While many were killed instantly, some died while undergoing treatment at various hospitals including JJ, Cama and Gokuldas Tejpal (GT) hospital.

Lying in ward NO 13 of JJ hospital, Lalji Pandey was still writhing in pain. He along with his son Sailesh Pandey and daughter-in-law Kiran Pandey was to board a train to Chilbala junction in Uttar Pradesh to attend a marriage of their relative. “The moment there was chaos and people started running helter- skelter, I too started running. But from somwhere, I was hit twice and I fell down and became unconscious,” recalled 54-year-old Lalji Pandey.

Had his railway ticket been confirmed, perhaps, he would have escaped the bullets. “I asked my son and daughter-in-law to sit in the waiting room and was looking for the TT as the train (Mahanagri Express) was about to come. But suddenly, someone started spraying bullets and I was more concerned for my son and his wife. Luckily, only I was hit,” he said.

While Lalji was lucky, both because he is out of danger and his dear ones were unhurt, Shabbir Dalal from Sholapur was not all that lucky. Shabbir along with his relatives had come to Mumbai to see off his cousins who were leaving for Haj. Though he suffered two bullet wounds and a surgery was performed on him, his two relatives died in the gunfire.

“I went to CST to board Siddeshwar Express and sat in one of the platforms. My cousins - Ejaz Dalal and Aziz - died. I survived. All I could see were two determined youths with their finger on the trigger,” he recalled.

In the commotion that ensued, Dalal lost his mobile phone, purse and the ticket. Another youth, Sushanth Panda, who just came out of the operation theatre after a surgery was performed on his hand, was still to recover from the shock.

“I was to board a train to Hyderabad on business purpose and was sitting at the waiting hall. Suddenly, there was gunfore all around. I tried to run but was hit,’’ he said.

While the incident left all of them shocked, there was this couple from Italy, who despite surviving one of the unprecedented attacks in the country, are willing to visit Mumbai again.

“Me and my partner were having beer at Nariman Point. We finished it and moved out when we heard gunshots.

First, we thought it was fireworks but soon the place we were hanging out was shut. After spending 20 minutes inside, we were taken to Colaba police station where we spent the night,” said Barlitha Loredana who is visiting Mumbai for the third time along with her companion Magatelli Georgeo.

They were supposed to board a train to Bijapur which they missed that night after arriving in Mumbai three days prior to the incident.

“We went to the CST on Friday but it was closed. But we will visit Mumbai again and give a damn to this terror attack,” she said.


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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2008 04:43

here is a time line from NSG prespective.

x-posted form SF thread....
A very interesting first hand experience article from NSG commandos with some of their humour thrown in (Outlook). Also silences fan boys complaining of lack of TI/NVG etc. Also notice the 'unofficial' involvement of an off-duty 21 para (SF) officer!

Link courtesy of Sanjay and Pranay (X-posted from Special Forces Thread).

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081215&fname=BNSG+%28F%29&sid=1&pn=2

Bullets For Broadway

It was the longest rescue operation in the nearly 25 years of existence of the National Security Guard, or NSG. Battling rather skewed odds, the commandos engaged eight highly trained terrorists entrenched in tactically superior positions. In a 51-hour battle to take back three key landmarks of Mumbai, they killed all eight and lost two of their own. This is their story.

00:30

November 27.
NSG complex, Manesar, Gurgaon, near Delhi

It was half past midnight when Lt Colonel R.K. Sharma received a call asking him to report to the office pronto. Sharma, a Gurkha Rifles officer on deputation to the NSG's 51st Special Action Group (SAG), knew what the call meant. Mumbai was under attack and this was a call to arms and in the next 30 minutes—the time allotted to the SAG to fully mobilise—he would be on the move. Like Sharma, scores of other officers were also receiving similar calls across the sprawling NSG complex in Manesar.

A few minutes before Sharma received the call, Union home secretary Madhukar Gupta had called the NSG DG J.K. Dutt, asking him to mobilise his troops. Gupta, in turn, was responding to an SOS from the Maharashtra chief secretary. Which, in turn, was prompted by a meticulously executed attack. After coming in by sea and disembarking at two points along the Mumbai coast, the terrorists had broken up into five teams and headed out to their pre-planned targets. At 9.21 pm, two of them opened fire at the crowded Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) and 20 minutes later another team sprayed bullets at guests chilling out at the Leopold Cafe, killing 10.

The 51 SAG, specialists in building intervention operations, is a mixed lot of fighting men drawn from diverse arms of the Indian army. In command was Special Forces officer Colonel Sunil Sheoran, twice decorated for gallantry.

02:30

November 27.
Palam Technical Area, New Delhi

By 2.45 am, 200 officers and men of the SAG gathered at the Palam technical area adjoining the Delhi airport where an IL-76 from raw's aviation research centre was warming up on the tarmac. Landing at 5.15 am in Mumbai, the commandos quickly got into the vehicles waiting on the tarmac—trucks, BEST buses, jeeps—just about anything the Mumbai police had managed to lay their hands on that morning.

06:20

November 27.
The Taj Hotel and The Oberoi-Trident, Mumbai


When the commandos arrived at the two locations, the terrorists were already being engaged by the navy's elite Special Forces, the Marine Commandos (MARCOS) which had been called in from INS Abhimanyu, their base just off the coast of Mumbai. Forty-five members of MARCOS divided into two teams were rushed in after an SOS from a desperate Maharashtra government to Vice-Admiral J.S. Bedi of the Western Naval Command seeking help to evacuate the trapped guests at the Taj and Oberoi. From 2 am, till the SAG arrived and took over, the navy commandos held ground and tried to isolate the terrorists.

The SAG quickly swung into action. Major Bharat Singh, a squadron commander, was asked to take in one team (25 men) into the Oberoi-Trident. A similar team led by Lt Col Sharma also went in. Both were under the tactical command of Col B.S. Rathee, deputy force commander of the SAG contingent. "The hotel staff gave us maps of the building and we had footage from a 21 Para (SF) officer on leave. We moved in from the fire exits and climbed up to the 21st floor," says an officer involved in the Oberoi operation.

Not sure about where the terrorists were holed up, the commandos took the 'top-to-bottom' approach for a dominating view and a better field of fire—critical in a close quarters battle.

Armed with their German Heckler & Koch MP-5 submachine guns, the men began a room-by-room search of the Oberoi-Trident. Recalls a commando, part of the first team that went into the building, with wry humour: "We thought if the hostages were locked in, that was good. If the terrorists had locked themselves in, that was a bad call."

09:30

November 27.
Taj Hotel

Meanwhile, near the Gateway the NSG commandos took over operations in the new wing of the Taj from the MARCOS. Called the Taj Tower, the naval commandos had already evacuated 300 guests.

"We sent in two teams, one under Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and another under Major Kanwal. The SAG teams began to push the terrorists back through a connecting corridor to the Taj Palace while guests were moved out from all possible exits," an officer who took part


"We became so good at hand signals that we are now planning a dumb charades team of our own."

in the operation told Outlook. By 10 am, a fresh plane-load of commandos had taken off from Palam as reinforcements for Mumbai.

14:00

November 27.
Oberoi-Trident

Back at the Trident, the commandos combing the rooms made "first contact" with the terrorists on the 18th floor. "There was a barrage of automatic gunfire...we quickly fanned out and returned fire," says a commando. As the battle raged, the terrorists backed into Room 1856 and kept up a steady fire to keep the SAG men at bay. Col B.S. Rathee slipped into the adjoining room under intense fire to set up a tactical command centre. At times the commandos would fire up their HHTIS (Hand Held Thermal Imagers) to locate the terrorists. It worked at times, and at times it didn't.

"We kept firing, threw in a few grenades but figured out that the terrorists were hiding in the bath tub. They returned fire and injured Major Saurav Shah. Saurav went on the RT (radio transmission) that he was bleeding and losing consciousness. We immediately did an evac (evacuation)". Another bullet whizzed past Major Bharat, taking off a bit of his left ear. (Soon after the operation at the Trident concluded a colleague fished out a get-well card with this cheeky message: "Enjoy life since it's too short. Just two inches short!")

14:40

November 27.
Taj Hotel (Heritage Wing)

Col Sheoran, who had tactical command of the operations at the Taj hotel, was getting worried. While earlier estimates had indicated two terrorists, his men reported four. "Some of the terrorists were using a ladder between the restaurant on the top and a bar below to keep switching between floors. We homed in on their position and began to pin them down. Our prime concern was to keep all the trapped guests in one place so that we could evac them," an officer told Outlook. The commandos had to break down doors finger on the trigger, hoping to meet scared guests but ready for terrorists, just in case. The effort became tougher since the master electronic key to the hotel rooms was not functioning. "The shockwaves from the grenade blasts had rendered them useless so we just cracked the doors down."

Back at the Oberoi-Trident, the terrorists were exchanging abuse with the commandos. Recalls an SAG commando: "One of them started abusing Lt Col Sharma saying they would f*** his mother. We shouted back that we would do the same to him to provoke him into exposing himself." As the operation continued, an old joke was recounted: "All terrorists will eventually meet God. It's our job to fix an appointment for them!"

Incidentally, the commandos had to fall back on a bit of ingenuity to solve the hiccups hampering operations.

Since radio batteries had gone dead, they communicated with each other using sign language and 'playacting'. At other times, some would run down all 21 floors to get the ready-to-eat meals, or replace the depleting batteries for their RT sets. "We became so good at hand signals that we are planning to team up with Col Rathee for a dumb charades team!"

07:45

November 28.
Nariman House


By nightfall on Thursday the SAG teams had figured out that Nariman House would be the trickiest to deal with. With limited entry points available, the squadrons had to take an aerial route to storm the building. On the 28th morning, an IAF helicopter hovered overhead as the commandos slithered down to the roof of the building. Intercepts of the terrorist communication had already revealed that the hostages were all dead. The commandos smashed their way into the building with suppressing fire from the terrace while their snipers gave covering fire. The SAG team killed two terrorists after a fierce gunbattle only to discover the decomposed bodies of the Israeli rabbi couple and their guests.

09:10 to 18:00

November 29.
Taj Hotel (Heritage Wing)


Throughout Friday night, the battle for the Taj continued to rage. The terrorists were firing intermittently while playing a deadly game of hide and seek. Earlier in the operation, the SAG team suffered a major loss when Major Unnikrishnan, chasing a terrorist along with havildar Yadav, came under fire. Yadav was hit and Sandeep immediately pulled him out, cautioned his colleagues to pull back and bounded up the stairs after the terrorists and engaged them in battle. He succumbed to their bullets.

Meanwhile the operation dragged on. Recalls a commando: "The terrorists would continuously run between floors and we kept chasing them." Finally, isolating them on the first floor, the final assault began early on November 29. Lobbing a few grenades, the SAG team rushed the room where the last terrorist was holing up for several hours. As the bullets hit him, he was pushed back against the window and he tumbled out and fell on the road below. Nearly 61 hours after the first shot had been fired by the terrorists, the operation was finally over and the commandos had won back the Taj hotel, inch by inch.


Need to do better in reducing response time- Already done with the six teams.
need to reduce actual conflict time. So many hours for 8 terrorists has to be bettered.

And need better batteries.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby John Snow » 07 Dec 2008 04:56

How about rechargarble ones as the hold out /siege would span multiple hours?

Also DRDL/DRDO should come up with devices (these exists in rudimentary form) to make the electrical outlets itself for voice communication with in the Hotel premises. so commandos can have a back up way to talk in various corridors filled with gunfire, smoke and debris. use as long as the wiring is not damaged at any time only sections of it would be in damaged condition.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby shiv » 07 Dec 2008 08:53

ramana wrote:Finally, isolating them on the first floor, the final assault began early on November 29. Lobbing a few grenades, the SAG team rushed the room where the last terrorist was holing up for several hours. As the bullets hit him, he was pushed back against the window and he tumbled out and fell on the road below


:D Hmmm..

"Tumbled out" indeed...

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=omiyIu-gk1c

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Aditya G » 07 Dec 2008 10:07

shiv wrote:"Tumbled out" indeed...

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=omiyIu-gk1c


Shiv, from whatever I saw the best camera work was done by India TV, even though their commentry was atrociuos. NDTV was more interested in doing chat shows. Whats your opinion?

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Aditya G » 07 Dec 2008 10:14

The tragedy at CST needs to be dissected - details for Taj and Oberoi have come out in fuller detail. Unlike these two places, the attackers were in the open and were engaged by armed policemen. Why did they fail to stop the attack?

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fo ... sid=1&pn=2

Sunil Naik, a railway policeman who is helping the investigators document the terrorist attack, says: "Shinde was a dashing officer with a fantastic network. He was from Ratnagiri district. He bravely took out his service pistol and put up a resistance. Many more people would have been killed if he had not done so. But the terrorists shot him dead from behind. Unfortunately, nobody has spoken of this officer's bravery. He has left behind two children.


http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 30&Itemid=

VISHNU ZENDE, 37
Railway Announcer
Location: CST

At around 10 p.m. on the night of November 26, Zende heard a loud explosion and sensed that something was wrong at the station. He looked out of his cabin and saw commuters fleeing from the express platforms towards the main station area. Many were hurt and had blood all over them. Quick to act, he got in touch with the Rapid Action Force and Government Railway Police manning the station to rush to the mainline section.


Railway Police Constable
Location: CST

Police Constable Nalavade, a hero in his own right, was one of the men responsible for neutralising the terror attack on CST on the night of November 26. At the railway police post when the terrorists opened fire on Platform No. 14 of the station, Nalavade and his colleagues first thought it was only a case of some sparking. “I went into the main hall but there was no one there. Finally, I spotted the terrorist on Platform No. 14,” says Nalavade.

Combating terrorists who were armed with the state-of-the-art automatic weapons with a carbine was no mean feat, but Nalavade took on the challenge.

While the sight of dead bodies was none too pleasant, Nalavade opened fire. “I fired three shots from my carbine. However, when I set out to fire the fourth time, the bullet got twisted and stuck in the carbine. My weapon was now useless,” says Nalavade. “I repaired my gun and returned to the spot. Unfortunately, they had escaped,” adds the constable whose shots made one of the terrorists drop his bags.

Then, with help of CST workers, Nalavade carted dead bodies and the injured to St. George Hospital. When he returned, the local police was bringing the situation under control.


VINOD Y. SHINDE, 33
Railway Police Constable
Location: CST

Railway Police Constable Vinod Shinde regrets that he did not get a chance to fight the terrorists who attacked the CST. When all officers ran to ascertain the reason behind the sound of firing, Shinde rushed out of the police station with them. What he saw was two terrorists firing indiscriminately at people near the platform. “I rushed back to the post and would have had to go to the weapons room to get my arms.

But by then, they had moved closer to us. So I couldn’t get out immediately,” recalls Shinde. So, he began helping the injured. He carried a hurt assistant sub-inspector and a home guard into the chowkie and took the injured and bodies of the dead to the nearby St. George Hospital. “As a precautionary measure we divided ourselves into groups of four to inspect the station thoroughly,” he says. Later,


Vishnu Zende
Image

Ajit Kumar Nalavade
Image

Vinod Y. Shinde
Image
Last edited by Aditya G on 07 Dec 2008 10:26, edited 1 time in total.

shiv
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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby shiv » 07 Dec 2008 10:18

Aditya G wrote:
shiv wrote:"Tumbled out" indeed...

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=omiyIu-gk1c


Shiv, from whatever I saw the best camera work was done by India TV, even though their commentry was atrociuos. NDTV was more interested in doing chat shows. Whats your opinion?


I was watching mostly Times Now because Arnab Goswami's mood matched mine. Besides -I was recording the channel and waiting for re runs of significant parts.

I guess this is India's first experience of live TV war (unlike Kargil which was relatively remote). The US went through the pain and learning experience of this in Vietnam - more than 3 decades ago.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Singha » 07 Dec 2008 10:20

you have to be realistic . these kind of cops are given firing practice about once a year.
and hence one never knows if their weapons will fire reliably, one person fired two rounds
but his rifle jammed thereafter. and you can guess what will be marksmanship with a
yearly session.

Lee enfield in one version has been a fine sniper rifle. if policemen with lee enfields
are given weekl shooting practice, they could have put down atleast one of the
CST crew.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Aditya G » 07 Dec 2008 10:35

Singha wrote:you have to be realistic . these kind of cops are given firing practice about once a year.
and hence one never knows if their weapons will fire reliably, one person fired two rounds
but his rifle jammed thereafter. and you can guess what will be marksmanship with a
yearly session.

Lee enfield in one version has been a fine sniper rifle. if policemen with lee enfields
are given weekl shooting practice, they could have put down atleast one of the
CST crew.


Exactly.

The problem is that in all the media tamasha these facts are not coming thru. What we have is typical knee-jerk response instead of solving existing problems:

1. "Create Maharashtra Security Guard" - why cant we take ATS as they are and improve it?

2. "Station NSG at six locations" - this IMHO will dilute the NSG!

The small two-man team that started its attack at CST and concluded at Police barricade. This sequence of events of IMHO totally avoidable. If the police - Mumabai Police, RPF, GRP - were trained properly and their weapons maintained, then CST tragedy and later the killing of ATS chief would have been averted.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Singha » 07 Dec 2008 10:46

agreed, the ATS was trying to manage with unwieldy FNFAL , imagine trying to manouver and firing that
from inside a vehicle? they need INSAS - no reason why a few 1000 extra INSAS cannot be pulled from
army stock and distributed asap.

the training situation needs serious looking into. nobody can afford to train police upto NSG levels.
but they should be given reliable weapon (insas) and weekly firing. this will vastly increase their
deadliness.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Aditya G » 07 Dec 2008 10:57

Article by India Today attempts to ask the right questions. and thankfully does not hide behind weasel words.

http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index ... 0&Itemid=1

Lessons from Mumbai
Malini Bhupta, Aditi Pai and Swati Mathur
Mumbai, December 4, 2008

At 6.30 p.m. on December 3, a week after the terror attacks, two bags containing 8 kg of potently explosive RDX were found on platform number 15 at the crowded Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) in Mumbai.

The bag containing RDX was found in rucksacks like the ones used by the terrorists among the luggage of victims stacked in one corner of the terminus. This is a city on the edge and a police force that is supposed to have been alert. You would imagine that following the attack at CST, the police would have mopped the place for any evidence, sniffer dogs must have been deployed and the luggage sanitised. Yet a week later, the explosive was sitting at CST awaiting discovery. It’s as if India’s worstever terrorist attack had not happened.

It is this casualness, the lack of capacity to comprehend and act, that allowed terrorists to plan and execute what is now being called India’s 9/11 that claimed 173 lives and left 288 wounded.

The basics, who could do what, where, when, why and how that determines the core of counter terrorism strategy, was lost in a maze of politics.

Thomas Kean, who headed the National Commission to probe the 9/11 attacks in the US had observed that the attack reflected not just a failure of intelligence but the failure of policy, management, capability and above all a “failure of imagination”. He could have been talking about the 26/11 attacks by terrorists across Mumbai. The terrorists chose to come by sea, target the twin towers of the Taj and Oberoi, attacked a crowded rail terminus, planned to blow up an airport and internationalised their cause by targeting foreigners and above all a Jewish outreach centre at Nariman House.

At least six intelligence reports from the Research & Analysis Wing dating from September to as late as November 19 pointed out the possibility of a sea-borne fidayeen attack.

The Taj Hotel and the CST station were among the attacks repeatedly referred to. Yet the terrorists had a free run of the coast, landed without trouble and struck at will. Predictably, the state Government claims it got no warnings and the Centre insists it did warn the state. Typically in the Indian tradition, everyone is responsible but nobody is accountable.

A reconstruction of the events reveals that everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. The city has been a sitting duck for such an attack. The coastline, for instance, is patrolled by three agencies—the Navy on the high seas, the Coast Guard and the Marine Patrol. The Navy absolved itself that it patrols the high seas. The Coast Guard took cover under the issue of scale. {Per another article the CG checked the papers of Kuber crew after stopping them but found nothing supicious} After all, there are 5,000 trawlers and checking them all is impossible.

Also the landing happened in the domain of the coast patrolled by the Marine Police. Under the Marine Fishing Regulation Act (MFRA), enforced since 1993-94, the Centre provides 100 per cent assistance to states on capital costs of patrol boats and communication equipment to be used for patrolling. Yet states have failed to implement the scheme.

According to the Comptroller and Auditor General, Maharashtra refused to pick up the tab for maintenance and underutilised the funds. Ergo, the police, believe it or not, has just five boats—of which two are non-functional—to patrol the 760 km of Maharashtra coastline. To get a sense of the callousness that marks governance, consider this: the terrorists could have hit the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre if they had travelled just a few miles down, the naval installations or oil refineries in the western coast. Imagine the damage and the consequences.

Capability on ground zero is no better. When the terrorists struck almost simultaneously at three different locations, the Mumbai Police found itself battling the foes with pathetic leadership, poor coordination and outdated methods and weapons. There was poor assessment too. At around 9.15 p.m. on November 26, the Director-General of Police A.N. Roy, Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) chief Hemant Karkare and the Deputy Chief Minister R.R. Patil finished a meeting and were headed home when the first calls came. The first assessment: gang war shootout outside Leopold Cafe.

As the attack escalated, officers rushed to the locations. Despite knowing that the terrorists were armed with AK-47s, the top brass of Mumbai Police hit the road with archaic weapons like carbines and 9mm pistols. The CST encounter is truly an Indian story. :roll: While Police Inspector Shashank Shinde was battling the terrorists, the railway police officials were not even armed. They had to rush to the weapons room to fetch their rifles. By the time they returned, the terrorists had killed 58 and Shinde was dead. Contrast this with the terrorists. Each carried a Kalashnikov, nine magazines with 30 rounds each, 150 spare bullets, nine grenades and a pistol with five magazines of 18 rounds each. And there were only 35 ATS members to deal with the enormity of the crisis. A200-member commando force created in 1999 was disbanded by subsequent regimes {Who disbanded this force?}.

The saga of equipment is a tragedy. Nearly 18 months back, P.S. Pasricha as director-general of police mooted upgrading of weapons. Thanks to the bickering between finance, planning and home departments, the proposal got “in-principle” approval last month. At this speed the police won’t get their weapons till 2010. The.303 rifles are out of production, there is no ammunition produced and therefore cannot be tested in the firing range {I believed that .303s used are all 7.62 mm versions that the Army was using. So are these actually WW2 weapons?}. In many cases the guns jammed too. At CST, Constable Ajit Kumar Nalavade took position behind the drinking water taps and fired three rounds at a terrorist before his carbine jammed.

The bullet-proof vests worn by the officers also did not provide defence against AK-56 and AK-47 gunfire. In 2004, samples of these vests were sent to the firing range. Every bullet from SLRs and AK-47s went through the jacket even though the rounds were fired from a distance. Says former IPS officer Y.P. Singh: “More than Rs 100 crore is spent every year under the name of police modernisation but the jackets used are of very poor quality.” If Nagappa Mali and his team did manage to nab the terrorists at Girgaum Chowpatty, it was providence and uncommon bravery as none of the cops wore bullet-proof jackets.

The gunning down of Karkare, Inspector Vijay Salaskar and Additional Commissioner of Police Ashok Kamte in an ambush shows how ill-prepared the force is and the total absence of training, strategy or tactics through the crisis. Indeed Roy admits that “the response was very prompt but whether they were capable of neutralising terrorists is something that needs to be looked into”. This admission, in a state racked by three serious terror attacks, tells the story of apathy. Within the hour when the two hotels and CST were targeted, it should have been clear that this was a major terrorist strike.

In theory, the crisis management group headed by the chief secretary and its members should have met within the hour. In Mumbai, the chief secretary was at home, the crisis room was manned by the DGP, Patil and senior officers and Home Secretary Chitkala Zutshi was among those trapped at the Sea Lounge in the Taj and calling for help. Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh was in Kerala and reached Mumbai only at 3 a.m. The state Government didn’t lack advice. Last Monday Deshmukh announced the creation of a Maharashtra Security Council to advise the state. A similar council was also formed with army and police officials in September 2006 following the Mumbai serial blasts. Lieutenant General D.B. Shekatkar, a council member who has over 20 years of experience in “insurgency and terror” ops, reveals that the council has not met since August 2007. Worse, its suggestions—including one to strengthen coastal patrolling and involving the Koli community—were largely ignored.

This neglect clearly contributed to creating the landscape for the terrorists to strike at will. The desperate calls for help from Zutshi and other hostages in hotels should have prompted the state to call for the NSG. But it wasn’t till midnight that the state asked for help from the Centre. Precious hours lost could have saved lives. When they did reach Mumbai at 6 a.m. on November 27, those watching television the world over were treated to the pathetic sight of them being transported in BEST buses.

The NSG itself did a good job but that they took 50 hours to clear the Taj raises questions.

Yes, they operated blind without maps while the terrorists seem to know the Taj very well. And yes they have not had training for urban guerrilla warfare. Yet counter terrorism experts ask why it took so long? Why was gas not used in the operations? In Operation Black Thunder, the NSG had used yellow phosphorus to smoke out terrorists. But inexplicably this wasn’t done in Mumbai. What is unpardonable is that even this elite force is starved of equipment. Forget the high-end stuff like UAVs or mobile command posts, troopers fought without the basic equipment. Minutes before they took off from Delhi, Black Cats were frantically dialling for ballistic vests to be delivered at the airport. The crisis was aggravated by failure of leadership and total collapse of the system. For instance, though the Trident was secured, hostages were not evacuated till November 28 even though Police Commissioner Hasan Gafoor was parked right outside the hotel.

Even basic information systems were absent. There was no system to guide anxious relatives on who was hurt, killed or held hostage. Rumours ruled the roost. The police didn’t know how many terrorists had entered the city. First they said 12, then Deshmukh and Patil said “about 25” and finally 10 have been accounted for. But doubts persist. Were there more ? Did they check into the hotels or work there? How did they keep going for 50 hours? Did they pre-plant the ammunition? The blasts at Vile Parle and Wadi Bunder are yet a mystery. Who planted them? Was the airport the target? Over 700 people were evacuated from the hotels without checks. Did some terrorists escape? Are they out there? These queries will haunt Mumbai and India in the coming days.

On Friday night as the crisis dragged on, Patil asked Roy if the Mumbai Police could add to the NSG force to storm the Taj. Gafoor who had already lost men put his foot down. He revealed that they were simply not equipped or trained for this. The average policeman is bogged down in bandobast duties through the year and fires less than five bullets at the training range (compared to 150 by any commando force). They were and would have been sitting ducks. That is shocking. But that politicians and babudom have allowed matters to come to such a pass is chilling. It is this rot which passes for security in Mumbai and it is this stench that has fuelled the anger across Mumbai and India.
—with Sandeep Unnithan

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Eshwar » 07 Dec 2008 11:07

Singha wrote:agreed, the ATS was trying to manage with unwieldy FNFAL , imagine trying to manouver and firing that
from inside a vehicle? they need INSAS - no reason why a few 1000 extra INSAS cannot be pulled from
army stock and distributed asap.

the training situation needs serious looking into. nobody can afford to train police upto NSG levels.
but they should be given reliable weapon (insas) and weekly firing. this will vastly increase their
deadliness.


Gujarat police is already getting INSAS.

http://deshgujarat.com/2008/12/03/gujar ... errorists/

Its a good idea to distribute it to all the paramilitary and police forces in India.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Aditya G » 07 Dec 2008 11:49

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/blunder-at-s ... 910-3.html

Blunder at sea made Mumbai attack possible

CNN-IBN

Published on Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 07:21, Updated on Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 08:29 in Nation section

New Delhi: It was the most brazen terror attack India had ever seen. And it could have been prevented.

On November 26, a group of allegedly Pakistani terrorists made their way into Mumbai by boat and went on to unleash a frenzy of violence and terror, killing over 200 people, wounding hundreds, and leaving a city scarred for life.

What happened in Mumbai in those 59 hours has been well-documented. But questions still remain about what happened before. How exactly did the terrorists enter Mumbai? Where did they come from? And how safe is Mumbai, and India, today?

"They came from Karachi through the sea route to within 12 nautical miles in the mother ship. They then hijacked a trawler after hoisting a SOS flag. At four nautical miles they switched to rubber dinghies," said Hassan Gafoor, Mumbai Police Commissioner.

Investigators say Mohammad Ajmal Amir Kasab, the sole terrorist captured alive, has admitted that all 10 attackers were from Pakistan.

They left Karachi for Mumbai on November 23, on a ship called the Al-Husseini.

After coming into Indian waters, they hijacked a Porbandar-based fishing boat, the Kuber, which had been blown off course.

Amir has revealed they murdered the captain and four crew members, and assumed their identities.

When they were five miles away from Mumbai, they abandoned the Kuber and used inflatable rubber dinghies for the last stretch and reached Machimar Nagar in Mumbai. Out of the 10 terrorists, six came ashore at Badhwar Park near Cuffe Parade, while the other four continued to Sassoon Docks.

The terrorists then split up into five groups of two each, hired taxis and set out on their missions of death.

"It had been around 2100 hrs IST or so when I had finished dinner and was sitting on the shoreline. I saw the dinghies arrive with 10 young guys with heavy back packs. I enquired where they were going and one of them told me to mind my own business. So I did not enquire much," said Bharat Kashinath Tandel, who witnessed the terrorists come ashore.

Police sources say the terrorists used fishermen identity cards issued from Porbandar. The cards are normally issued by the Customs Department, and the verification also involves the Fisheries Department and the local police.

If the cards are indeed genuine, they point to growing corruption. Fishermen's associations in Porbandar are on the defensive and have been claiming the cards could be fake.

"Nothing like that has happened, At least not here in Porbandar but the Customs can investigate," said Jeevan Jungi, President of the Porbander Boat Owners Association.

However, Manish Lodhari who is the Secretary of National Fish Workers Forum said, "Duplication has been happening everywhere. When currency noted can be fake, why not I-cards?"

The Mandvi Port authorities have filed a case of forgery. But police at Porbandar say they have not yet received any information about the ID cards.

"We have no such information on this and no such information was shared with the local police at any point of time," said Dipankar Trivedi, Porbander Superintendent of Police (SP).

Fisheries department officials admit that the terrorists could have gotten around the process.

"It is possible. The Customs verifies photographs and details of those who go into the sea. Misuse can surely be done. Secret codes are with the Customs," said PC Malli, Superintendent, Fisheries Department, Porbander.

Time and again, it has been proven that corruption among bureaucrats and police is perhaps the biggest threat to India's security. Officials deny that the terrorists carried fishermen I-Cards, but it is already vital piece of evidence.

The identity cards were not the only lapse. The terrorists could have been captured even before they reached land.

Three days before the attack, the Coast Guard intercepted the Kuber off the Gujarat coast, with the terrorists and their arms and ammunition still on board.

All the Coast Guard did was check their papers.

"This particular vessel was challenged by the Coast Guards but they showed the papers which were found in order. So they moved on," revealed Admiral Sureesh Mehta, Chief of Naval Staff.

An intelligence alert about the attack from the sea had come as late as November 19. But the most formidable Navy-Coast Guard combination in the Indian Ocean was still all at sea.

"We need to have a strong coastal police. That is the plan that is being put into place. It is unfortunate that it is not yet fully ready but I think it will be in place very soon," hoped Admiral Mehta.

Fishermen's unions have publicly alleged corruption in the Coast Guard. And what's more alarming is the Navy's admission that intelligence authorities failed to convey the gravity of the situation.

"These are the things that must be actionable. Actionable is that in a point in time, at a particular place in respect of a specific thing. It is easy. India is under threat from terrorists. Is that actionable intelligence?" asked Admiral Mehta.


If there is actionable intelligence the Chiefs of Staff Committee is always briefed about it at its weekly meetings which is also attended by senior officers of the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and Intelligence Bureau (IB). The Navy chief has indicated that this never happened.


Another clue that was overlooked also came from the sea. The bodies of the dead crew members of the Kuber were seen near the Jhakau coast by local fishermen.


Jungi said he had passed on the information to the Coast Guard.


"We told the Coast Guard that a boat which was in Jhakau had seen a dead body floating on November 20/21. The fishermen reported that two other bodies were seen in the sea," claimed Jungi.


But the information was not relayed in time to intelligence authorities. The Porbandar police have been saying they still have no official information about the sightings.


"I have heard of these stories. We have tried to find out the truth. But nobody has come forward stating that bodies were spotted," Porbander SP said.


Over 200 people died in Mumbai between November 26 and 29. And for once, the famed spirit of Mumbai flickered.


It took mistake after mistake by different authorities for the terrorists to land successfully in Mumbai. And each of those mistakes has been made before.


http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers ... r2957.html

Maritime dimensions of Mumbai terrorist attacks on 27th November 2008
Guest Column By Commodore R. S. Vasan

...


In a media interview on Thursday, 25th November 08 the Commander-in-Chief of Western Naval Command indicated that both the naval and coast guard surface and air units were deployed to locate the mother ship. If even a percentage of these very forces were deployed in a coordinated manner earlier based on the wonderful intelligence provided, there was a good chance of thwarting the attack.

Surely this is a clear case of 'bolting the stables after the horses have fled'. Vice Admiral Bedi the Commander in Chief also said "We are up against highly motivated forces. My commandos have told me that we are up against professional terrorists who have done their homework well and know how to cause maximum damage".

If that was the reaction of the Chief of Western Naval Command, the SNC Chief Vice Admiral Damle said "As per the information that they not only came from the sea route but some elements have escaped through the sea route. Indian Navy is strong there and we have already started investigating the vessels or ships or any crafts which are considered suspicious on the west coast particularly in the vicinity of Mumbai. So, Indian Navy is taking active participation to finding out how they came in which is a separate issue, but if there in an attempt to take that route to rescue, that is also being investigated by our units,".

The Coast Guard likewise deployed most of its assets only after the attack indicative of lack of proactive measures. The statement by the Coast Guard that they lack resources and man power point to the need for pooling of the resources of all the agencies concerned with a view to have coordinated action. This is inescapable till the force level shortages are made good.

Unfortunately, the statement by the top brass of the Navy, Coast Guard and those in power does not evoke any sense of confidence that all is well on the aspects of maritime security. , That the attack has been very well planned and the planners would not have overlooked the aspect of ingress/exit including a reasonable degree of safety for the mother ship can hardly be doubted. By the time the searches were launched it is almost certain that the mother ship would have got away to safe havens under the cover of darkness on a new moon day (planned?) and mingled with the rest of legitimate and innocent traffic on the high seas. However, after mayhem, chaos and the loss of innocent lives at Mumbai the action by the Marine Commandos who swung in to action immediately is worthy of praise.

Even if the vessel is located it would mean precious little except assisting in the post mortem and ascertaining the modus operandi adopted by the terrorists. It was also suspected that a cargo ship MV Alfa, a Vietnamese ship which sailed from Karachi may; have been involved and was intercepted, but the authorities did not find anything incriminating and let the vessel off. If MV Alfa or another mother ship was indeed involved, the vessel would have ensured that there are no tell tale evidences of having launched the boats; after all the only action required of the ship was to carry the inflatable boats and the hit squad and disgorge them at a point from where the group could be on their own.

In addition, the location of an Indian trawler Kuber which was reported missing since 13th November was located by the Coast Guard. A dead man (skipper) with bullet wounds, four bodies of the crew of this vessel found by the Coast Guard, a satellite phone and GPS maps of Southern Mumbai which were found on the boat suggests that in a well planned operations, the terrorists had decided to use one of the Indian vessel to merge with Indian fishing vessels and evade detection. Also it raises question about what was done on getting the report of the missing boat since 13th November. Except during monsoons and inclement weather boats do not go missing on either coast, so it is clear that this aspect was not investigated and was perhaps assumed as a routine incident.
...


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/irony ... ../392003/

Indian Express > Ahmedabad >

Irony of not one or two but 10 marine police stations that exist only on paper


http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-53247.html

Whither Marine Police? Mumbai attack spotlights vulnerability

By Ritu Sharma, New Delhi, Nov 29 : The dramatic arrival of terrorists in Mumbai via the sea route has highlighted the vulnerability of India's 7,516-km coastline and the need to strengthen the fledgling Marine Police - a force that took off in 2007 but is yet to materialise fully.

Rajkot: They neither have suitable infrastructure, nor trained staff to play a substantial role in making the coastline safe

Wednesday’s Terror attack in Mumbai has not only exposed the vulnerability of Gujarat's 1,600 km-long coastline, but also the poor levels of preparedness of 10 marine police stations set up two years ago along the state’s coast .....

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Patni » 07 Dec 2008 21:30



CCTV Footage of Mumbai CST Terror Attack - UNCUT video

Posting here for time stamps on the video footage. Indicates pakis were in CST from about 9:56PM (Passengers starts to run out of station) till least 10:14PM.

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=c4IoglYiNkY

Posting the link so members can watch it on youtube.
Last edited by Patni on 07 Dec 2008 22:26, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2008 23:55

Please dissect the Sandeep Unnithan's India Today article. A lot of political appeasement mistakes were done which compounded the terrorist attack.

If the police had got the other terrorist in the CST, it would have saved the ATS chiefs for kasab cant drive like Pappu cant dance.

There seems to be confusion in the carbine getting jammed and people blaming the .303 bolt action rifle getting jammed. The latter can be cleared right there. Looks like the Sten guns with the police need to be taken to the armory to clear jams. Why is that so? Need to get rid of that old junk. Those looks like they didn't do any good at all. I think the barrel was worn out and the cartridge tumbled and jammed. Would like to know if this was the root cause ofr hte carbin jamming.

Do we know the names of the terrorists and where they attacked? have the pictures been released?

Also I dont trust the CNN IBN about the sea entry defence having failed. It slike the proverrbial needle in the haystack. Hence we need defence in depth onthe shore too for stragglers. And MV Kuber is a fishing boat its not a trawler. Also they have panga with Navy Chief so they are spreading the stories.

And Sandeep U the two taxis were already discussed in this thread as extra bombs for confusion. They were not attack per se but incidents. And from nominal counting we figured there was a bomb unaccounted for.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby svinayak » 08 Dec 2008 04:48

Patni wrote:
Posting here for time stamps on the video footage. Indicates pakis were in CST from about 9:56PM (Passengers starts to run out of station) till least 10:14PM.

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=c4IoglYiNkY

Posting the link so members can watch it on youtube.


Check this out too

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=C3-Ip0rY1DI

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Aditya G » 08 Dec 2008 09:51

To summarise fire exchanged at CST:

- RPF Ajit Kumar Nalavade constable fired with his Sterling carbine but got jammed after 3 rounds

- RPF Constable Jillu Yadav took his colleagues .303 (his buddy was to scared) and fired but missed when the terrorists were reloading

- One RPF constable fired from his .303 but missed, got shot in the chest but survived.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Dec 2008 14:39

i have to say, for anyone with a bolt action rifle to take on two guys with an AK47/56 takes a huge amount of guts, especially since there was no means of using tactical cover to dominate the scene or gain ground

the same 0.303 mounted higher up in the station on some vantage point could have pinned down these two jokers, or atleast had a better hope of doing so

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Aditya G » 08 Dec 2008 18:19

X-posting. Police was the first to engage terrorists inside the Taj. CCTV footage:

http://broadband.indiatimes.com/toishow ... 806151.cms

Senior officer over RT: The naval commandos should be there in a few minutes keep them enaged. Over

Officer in Taj: I am doing that sir, Rajvardhan is also along with me. And we are doing that sir. We will not allow them to come down, though we die. sir. That we will do sir.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Lalmohan » 08 Dec 2008 18:23

the calm manner in which this cop spoke was also very impressive

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby John Snow » 08 Dec 2008 20:40

deleted
Last edited by John Snow on 08 Dec 2008 22:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 08 Dec 2008 21:48

John Snow wrote:Looks like Guns of Navarone was enacted on India!



You know on the first night itself I thought the same and concluded it was more than a terrorist attack. It was a commando operation.

BTW, x-posted...
anupmisra wrote:Image


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