Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 20 Nov 2009 21:57

Not really. All these foreigners entering India is an IB matter. Local police dont have insigth into this. The visas were issued to these duo by MEA bypassing MHA guidleines. These duo stayed all over India other than Mumbai: Kerala, Delhi etc. Realistically these are not in Mumbai police jurisdiction.

Also there are nno winners in blame game.

Old Chinese saying "When you point finger, three fingers of your hand are pointed at yourself!"

I add the thumb is pointed upwards to god or chance!

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby ramana » 20 Nov 2009 22:00

Gagan wrote:There is a translation error in the documentary.

The terrorist handler says.
Allah tey sattar twadha intezaar kar rahiyaan ne

"Allah and the 70 are waiting for you."

While the translation both on channel 4 and HBO reads
Allah is waiting for you.


BTW, are we sure that there are 72 virgins promised? Both the LET poem and a few interviews of terrorists I've seen seem to suggest 70.

This has grave implications that needs further analysis on the BENIS dhaga.



L-e-T's Hafeez Saeed keeps two as his cut and shares one with Zardari.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Avinash R » 20 Nov 2009 22:51

Kasab's lawyer wilts in the harsh spotlight

Mumbai, Nov 20 (IANS) Spotlights can often be welcome but not this one. The notoriety that came with having as a client the lone terrorist caught alive after the 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attacks has left S.G. Abbas Kazmi weary, insecure and financially spent.

Defending Mohammed Ajmal Amir Kasab during the seven-month high profile trial has taken its toll, said Kazmi, who was appointed by the court for the task after the woman lawyer before him was removed over issues of clash of interests.

It has been a financial drain, has left him too busy to take up other cases and has led to 24X7 security for him and his family.

In a free-wheeling chat with IANS here, the 55-year-old lawyer said the case brought him fame -- and many problems too.

'For one, you all know what a hostile atmosphere I had faced from all quarters and communities when I was appointed for the trial,' he said with a tired smile.

The hostility has dissipated to a large extent, he added, because he has conducted the trial in a most professional manner and even people who were protesting now accept he was merely doing a job assigned to him by the Special Court.

Kazmi, a known face in legal circles having defended some of the accused in the other high profile trial of the March 1993 Mumbai serial bombings, said the 26/11 trial turned out to be more than what he had expected.

'It has regular hearings, which I cannot afford to miss. So, all my other work and cases got affected. I had to pass them on to my colleagues; till this trial gets over I have no time to take up new cases.'

'All for Rs.2,500 ($55) per day's hearing,' Kazmi added ruefully. A pittance for a nationally known criminal lawyer.

The constant security that has come to be a part of their lives is new for the family that lives in Mahim, central Mumbai - and is also unwelcome.

'But my family has been extremely understanding and supportive. They understand the sensitive nature of the trial and its implications; so they bear with everything,' he smiled.

Commenting on Kasab, Kazmi said his interactions were always of a professional nature.

'I get to meet him around once a week or so. From day one I have maintained that I would like this case to get over quickly so I can get on with other things, I have never tried to delay the trial in any manner.'

This was an oblique reference to Special Public Prosecutor Ujjwal Nikam's accusations that the defence was attempting to delay the proceedings.

Kazmi listed out the difficulties in the trial, and the differences between the hearings of the March 1993 bombings in which 257 people were killed, and the 26/11 attacks, where the three-day terror siege claimed 166 lives.

'The first and foremost is that in the March 1993 case, all the accused were Indians. In this (26/11), the sole prime accused is a foreigner, from Pakistan. Then, there are two co-accused accomplices (Fahim Ansari and Sabahuddin Ahmed) who are Indians,' he said.

In the previous trial, there were a total of 123 accused, including several women, a Bollywood star (Sanjay Dutt), police and customs officials, mafia operatives and businessmen.

'In this case, there is only Kasab, the prime accused,' he pointed out. The other two - Ansari and Ahmed - had provided background support and were not directly involved during the terror attacks.

In both instances, 13 locations, including government buildings and luxury hotels, were targeted.

Discussing the number of witnesses in the two trials, Kazmi said it worked out to barely five witnesses per accused in the March 1993 case, compared to 250-plus against Kasab.

'In my professional career, I have never seen so many witnesses against a single accused in any case. I do not recall any similar precedent in India in the past,' Kazmi said.

The March 1993 trial went on for nearly nine long years under different judges; 26/11 has been on since the past seven months with only one Special Judge, M. L. Tahilyani, presiding.

It is likely to go on for some more time. At the present pace, Kazmi feels the trial may continue well into 2010 - before the final sentencing ends it all...


Today's sermon from patriotic lawyer defending pakistani terrorist. Rs.2,500 per day is an "pittance", With the trial in the 26/11 mumbai attack case being conducted almost daily this person made himself a nice amount of money and now calls it pittance and wants to garner some public sympathy. If he is so unhappy with the quantum of money being paid, he should donate this "pittance" as a mark of protest.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby putnanja » 21 Nov 2009 02:57

Advisory to TV channels on 26/11 anniversary

...
Urging the channels to ensure “balanced and responsible coverage,” the advisory underlines the fact that the investigation and trial are still in progress. Acknowledging the role of the media in the “crusade against terrorism by building strong public opinion and consensus against the senseless acts of terrorists,” the advisory says it is necessary to continue to display a “high degree of maturity and sensitivity” while covering terror issues.

“Replays of disturbing visuals showing scenes of blood and gore or images of dead or seriously wounded or the emotional distress of victims/hostages and their families may bring back dreaded memories of the tragic incident and may indirectly fulfil the basic design of the terrorists to spread fear and insecurity in the minds of the people,” the Ministry noted.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby VikramS » 21 Nov 2009 03:52

Avinash R wrote:
Today's sermon from patriotic lawyer defending pakistani terrorist. Rs.2,500 per day is an "pittance", With the trial in the 26/11 mumbai attack case being conducted almost daily this person made himself a nice amount of money and now calls it pittance and wants to garner some public sympathy. If he is so unhappy with the quantum of money being paid, he should donate this "pittance" as a mark of protest.


What is the problem?

With 20 working days, that is Rs50K/month. My cousin who is 20 year younger makes an order of magnitude more than that. So for a lawyer at the top of his game, it is indeed a pittance. It is not an easy job but someone has to do it.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby AnimeshP » 21 Nov 2009 04:24

RaviBg wrote:Advisory to TV channels on 26/11 anniversary

...
Urging the channels to ensure “balanced and responsible coverage,” the advisory underlines the fact that the investigation and trial are still in progress. Acknowledging the role of the media in the “crusade against terrorism by building strong public opinion and consensus against the senseless acts of terrorists,” the advisory says it is necessary to continue to display a “high degree of maturity and sensitivity” while covering terror issues.

“Replays of disturbing visuals showing scenes of blood and gore or images of dead or seriously wounded or the emotional distress of victims/hostages and their families may bring back dreaded memories of the tragic incident and may indirectly fulfil the basic design of the terrorists to spread fear and insecurity in the minds of the people,” the Ministry noted.


I'm kind of divided in my opinion on this one ... on the one hand we have a highly shrill media (especially TV) who definitely indulge in sensationalism and don't bring much to a discussion, on the other this could be a ploy by the govt. to cover up the screw-ups and uncomfortable questions ...

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Y. Kanan » 21 Nov 2009 08:11

ramana wrote:BTW, are we sure that there are 72 virgins promised? Both the LET poem and a few interviews of terrorists I've seen seem to suggest 70.


It's a well known problem in jehadi circles. With so many of the faithful shaheedizing themselves of late, virgins have been on backorder - they can't stamp 'em out fast enough. But the show must go on, so you make sacrifices wherever you can. Next year they'll be promising only 50...

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Avinash R » 21 Nov 2009 09:48

VikramS wrote:
Avinash R wrote:
Today's sermon from patriotic lawyer defending pakistani terrorist. Rs.2,500 per day is an "pittance", With the trial in the 26/11 mumbai attack case being conducted almost daily this person made himself a nice amount of money and now calls it pittance and wants to garner some public sympathy. If he is so unhappy with the quantum of money being paid, he should donate this "pittance" as a mark of protest.


What is the problem?

With 20 working days, that is Rs50K/month. My cousin who is 20 year younger makes an order of magnitude more than that. So for a lawyer at the top of his game, it is indeed a pittance. It is not an easy job but someone has to do it.

When did 50,000 a month become a pittance, people struggle to make even a thousand a month. And regarding your cousin, might be he's exceptionally brilliant to earn so much, if you interact with the lawyers most dont make that much or even half of that amount. If lawyers start making so much most parents would be dreaming of making their children lawyers instead of doctors and engineers. And if kazmi feels he's not being paid enough why doesn't he quit this case. Well he wouldn't since he would the lose the free publicity and money that he gets now.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby dipak » 21 Nov 2009 10:33

Former NSG Chief recounts the day of terror

J K Dutt, who headed the NSG and operations on 26/11.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby VikramS » 21 Nov 2009 13:28

Avinash R wrote:
VikramS wrote:
What is the problem?

With 20 working days, that is Rs50K/month. My cousin who is 20 year younger makes an order of magnitude more than that. So for a lawyer at the top of his game, it is indeed a pittance. It is not an easy job but someone has to do it.

When did 50,000 a month become a pittance, people struggle to make even a thousand a month. And regarding your cousin, might be he's exceptionally brilliant to earn so much, if you interact with the lawyers most dont make that much or even half of that amount. If lawyers start making so much most parents would be dreaming of making their children lawyers instead of doctors and engineers. And if kazmi feels he's not being paid enough why doesn't he quit this case. Well he wouldn't since he would the lose the free publicity and money that he gets now.


Your comment cast aspersion on the lawyer and was accusatory when the article did not have any outlandish claims.

In every profession there are the top 20-30% who make a lot more than others and the average. It is very likely that this person is that top 1/3rd bracket; he is unlikely to be a nobody lawyer. Otherwise the judge would not have chosen him in such a high profile case. The powers who are managing the case clearly have some degree of confidence in his ability to do his job to ensure a smooth trial and conviction, while providing the jehadi appropriate legal guidance.

My cousin's income is the norm in her firm; they are corporate lawyers. BTW, the pittance phrase seems to be an addition by the author of the article and not something originally attributed to the lawyer. Also note the article talks about the other issues (security, inability to service current clients etc.) which have affected him and his family. He is doing an unpopular but necessary job; give him some credit for it instead of throwing bricks at him.




This person is helping the wheels of justice move and from whatever had happened till now is doing a constructive job.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Charlie » 21 Nov 2009 13:51

Italy arrests 2 Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks

ROME: Italy's ANSA news agency reports that police in the northern city of Brescia have arrested two Pakistanis accused of logistical support for last year's terror attacks in Mumbai.

ANSA cited police sources as saying the two men arrested on Saturday used a money transfer agency they managed to send funds for the attacks. The money was used to pay for an Internet phone account used by people in contact with the attackers.

The agency said the two are accused of aiding and abetting as well as illegal financial activity.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Avinash R » 21 Nov 2009 14:38

VikramS wrote:My cousin's income is the norm in her firm; they are corporate lawyers.

That settles it, you are trying to compare renumerations of a corporate and criminal lawyer. In most cases corporate lawyers earn much more than lawyers who take up criminal cases.

And most of the cases kazmi has fought are for persons accused in terrorism related cases. He is not a high earning lawyer. So 2500 per day for him is more than enough.

And quoting from his interview,
Kazmi, a known face in legal circles having defended some of the accused in the other high profile trial of the March 1993 Mumbai serial bombings...

Now how do you justify this lawyer always defending persons accused of terrorism?

VikramS wrote:BTW, the pittance phrase seems to be an addition by the author of the article and not something originally attributed to the lawyer.

From the interview : 'All for Rs.2,500 ($55) per day's hearing,' Kazmi added ruefully.

Call it pittance or whatever but kazmi makes it abundantly clear that he's not satisfied with the amount of money the govt is paying for him for defending a terrorist.

VikramS wrote:Also note the article talks about the other issues (security, inability to service current clients etc.) which have affected him and his family.

If this is affecting him so deeply he could have quit, why whine before the press when all he is doing is use his legal education to delay the trial further.

VikramS wrote:He is doing an unpopular but necessary job; give him some credit for it instead of throwing bricks at him.

Absolutely wrong, there is no need for trial to be held when it's clear that he has committed acts of terrorism in mumbai.
Highlighting the most revelant parts in the article.

Rights and wrongs
Ajmal Kasab has no right to trial

by Dr N.M. Ghatate
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090311/edit.htm#6

Ajmal Kasab, the lone survivor of the terrorist group, which killed scores of innocent people in Mumbai after a four-day gun battle with the armed forces, is a Pakistani citizen. The question of all questions is: what are his rights under the Indian Constitution and the international law?

The answer assumes grave importance because it is now known worldwide that India is vulnerable to such attacks from citizens of Pakistan and other unfriendly countries. And, secondly, India has been fighting foreign-aided proxy for decades.

First, let us note what the Constitution mandates. Article 21 guarantees the right to life and liberty to all persons whether citizens of India or foreigners, and clauses (1) and (2) of Article 22 state that a person arrested under the criminal law has the right to be informed of the grounds of arrest as soon as possible.

Also, he has the right to consult and be defended by a lawyer of his choice and the right to be produced before the magistrate within 24 hours.

But Clause (3) (a) of this article states that none of these rights are available to a person who, “for the time being, is an enemy alien” and (sub clause b) who is detained under a preventive detention law.

Clauses (4) to (5) of this Article provide some safeguards to the detainee to regain his liberty such as the right to be informed about the grounds of detention, the right to make representation to the detaining authority and to the Advisory Board; and Clause (6) empowers Parliament to make laws regarding the procedure for fixing a time limit, the constitution and the procedure for the Advisory Board.

But the fact is no such rights or power whatever is given to an enemy alien under Clause (3) (a) of Article 22.

When the Constituent Assembly on September 15, 1949, debated this article there was a long-drawn debate about the likely abuse of the preventive detention law but not a whisper about the detention of an enemy alien.

Introducing this article, Dr Ambedkar also said that there cannot be any controversy on this point. At that time, he said, the “exigency of individual liberty should not be placed above the interest of state…or of defence services of the country.”

In a nutshell, an “enemy alien” is a class by itself. According to Basu’s framing of the Constitution, Parliament has the power to make laws regarding an enemy alien provided he is detained under the preventive detention law.

Now the question arises: who is an enemy alien? According to The Halsbury’s Laws of England, an enemy alien is the citizen of a country which is at “war with the Crown”. In other words, there should be a state of war to categorise a person as an “enemy alien”.

It is significant to remember that when the Constitution was framed and adopted in 1950 or the United Nations Charter, which emphasises about human rights, was framed in 1945, the international law recognised a state of war and a state of peace and there was nothing in-between.

The former phrase existed when there was a concept of declaration of war and later after there was a peace treaty but since the second half of the 20th century, this situation has undergone a sea-change in the international law.

There have been wars without an official declaration – for example, the Korean war of 1950, the Sino-Indian war of 1962, the Indo-Pak wars of 1965 and 1971, the Kargil war of 1999 and the recent Iraq war.

In these undeclared wars, both sides followed the international law of war. Soldiers captured in uniform of the other side were given the status of Prisoners of War under the Hague Declaration of 1899 and 1904 i.e. they could not be forced to fight against their own country, officers could not be subjected to manual labour, the Red Cross was permitted to deliver to the POWs their mail and goods without duty.

But, and this is a great but, if any enemy alien is arrested without uniform, he had no rights whatsoever. Such a person is treated as a spy and he could be shot down during the war.

He could also be detained without the right of habeas corpus. No human rights or fundamental liberties under the U.N. Charter and even under our Constitution are made available to him.

Undeclared wars and proxy wars have become a part of international relations and India is neither at war nor at peace with Pakistan and this proxy war is endangering the security, stability and sovereignty of India. Therefore, Ajmal Kasab, who is a citizen of Pakistan and who is caught in civilian clothes, has no right under the Constitution or the international law. Nor does he have the right to trial. Such a clear message should be given to Pakistan, which is conducting a proxy war against India and, furthermore, Pakistan should be told that “Goli” and “Boli” (talks and bullets) cannot go on simultaneously.

The writer is a Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court and former Vice-Chairman of the Law Commission of India.


VikramS wrote:This person is helping the wheels of justice move and from whatever had happened till now is doing a constructive job.

Well trying to delay the trial is not considered a constructive job,
Defence lawyers (Kazmi) trying to delay trial: prosecution

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby arun » 21 Nov 2009 15:03

Charlie wrote:Italy arrests 2 Pakistanis for Mumbai attacks

ROME: Italy's ANSA news agency reports that police in the northern city of Brescia have arrested two Pakistanis accused of logistical support for last year's terror attacks in Mumbai.

ANSA cited police sources as saying the two men arrested on Saturday used a money transfer agency they managed to send funds for the attacks. The money was used to pay for an Internet phone account used by people in contact with the attackers.

The agency said the two are accused of aiding and abetting as well as illegal financial activity.


The same story but this time by AP and with a web link:

Italian police arrest 2 linked to Mumbai attacks

AP via Google

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby AjayKK » 21 Nov 2009 15:27

Avinash R wrote:Kasab's lawyer wilts in the harsh spotlight

'All for Rs.2,500 ($55) per day's hearing,' Kazmi added ruefully.


It is surprising that the lawyer is regretting that his daily pay is low. He knows the rules better.

As per directives, Additional Public Prosecutors on the Law and Judiciary Panel are paid a daily stipend of Rs 1,500 per day except on public, weekly and court holidays. Lawyers on the State Legal Aid Panel, are paid Rs 900 per case irrelevant of the time the case goes on. Applying the same to the Defence lawyer he must be paid Rs. 1500 per day.

The lawyer was specifically granted a pay of Rs.2,500 per day's hearing by the judge.

And for the record, Ujjwal Nikam, for his 15 year service in the 1993 Mumbai Blasts case was paid a total of Rs 14,87,805 , which is less than a lakh per year.

So why the whine by the lawyer?

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby VikramS » 21 Nov 2009 16:57

AvinashR:

(1) What you earn as a Criminal Lawyer also depends on the kind of clients you have. The clients of criminal lawyers can have deep pockets and a lot more at stake. The 30% rule applies in all branches of law, and in fact almost all professions (whether it is banking or consultancy or even doctors). You are assuming that this lawyer is the equivalent of what they call ambulance chaser in the US, when it is highly improbable that the power would appoint him to defend Kasab he did not have an acceptable reputation.

(2) If you had bothered to read the article you had linked to, he asked for some time to prepare for the case after Kasab's original lawyer was removed and this guy was appointed in her place. The judge agreed with him; you can not start representing a client over night simply because the courts decided to appoint you, especially when the prosecution is presenting a vast amount of evidence which the lawyer is required to analyze in detail to properly represent the jehadi. According to the judge

"He further added, “Kazmi has appeared before me in another sensational case (music baron Gulshan Kumar murder case). I know him since many years and he wouldn’t indulge in such tactics to delay the trial but still, I will decide on his plea tomorrow.”

(3) The whole question of whether Kasab deserves a trial or not is not for the lawyer to decide. The powers who make the decision decided to have a trial and needed lawyers to represent Kasab. Once the powers decide to hold a trial they have to ensure that the accused gets proper legal representation. As I said before, it is a thankless job but someone got to do it.

(4) Just because the person became famous in the 90s because he was representing the 1993 bomb blast case does not mean that 15 years later he had not built up his practice. As I said earlier, the very reason the court and the powers trusted him out of the hundreds/thousands of lawyers available kind of establishes his credentials. Clearly the Gulshan Kumar case was not any itsy-bitsy case.

(5) The crux of the article was that being Kasab's lawyer is a stressful job because it not only disturbs his regular practice but has been disruptive to his family. There are people (who perhaps think like you) who were hostile to him, not realizing that having a trial WITHOUT providing Kasab with proper legal representation only opens up a can of worms (a lifetime of appeals and what not!).

(6) I am not sure how a court appointed lawyer can withdraw from a case, but do feel that 'I do not feel like it' is unlikely to be a sufficient enough reason, especially in a trial which has a global audience.

Your original post questions the lawyer's patriotism without any rational basis. Then you concluded that he is being greedy, again without any real evidence to back your statement up, while common sense would suggest that a well-known criminal lawyer in Mumbai is likely to make substantially more than 50K/month. At the same time you refuse to see the crux of the article that being in the lime-light as Kasab's lawyer is not a ride in the park and comes with its own stresses and security risks.
--------------


AjayK:
The lawyer did not say that he is not getting what he is supposed to get. He said that he is unable to attend to any new cases because the Kasab's case was very demanding. It is the author of the article who added that 2500 is a pittance for a successful criminal lawyer in Mumbai. Further do keep in mind inflation especially in the services sector which moribund 15 years ago when comparing the prosecutor's previous compensation.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SSridhar » 21 Nov 2009 19:05

OK, folks. Enough of the lawyer argument. Both of you have made your respective points. Let's get back to more interesting and relevant things.

Avinash, much as we hate this Kasab guy, he needs to be properly prosecuted and credibility of prosecution is very important.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Avinash R » 21 Nov 2009 19:44

^Just one last post sridhar, allow me to respond to vikram's post.

VikramS

Kazmi appeared as defense lawyer for the accused in the murder of Gulshan kumar. It is public knowledge that dawood ordered the killing. Dawood is connected to ISI which also fathered the LeT which attacked Mumbai and this Kasab is one of those LeT terroritsts. Again see the linkages. This kazmi always ends up defending persons connected with terrorists. That should give a pretty good indication of the character of this person. A person is known by the company he keeps and this kazmi is always seen in bad company.


VikramS wrote:As I said earlier, the very reason the court and the powers trusted him out of the hundreds/thousands of lawyers available kind of establishes his credentials. Clearly the Gulshan Kumar case was not any itsy-bitsy case.
(3) The whole question of whether Kasab deserves a trial or not is not for the lawyer to decide. The powers who make the decision decided to have a trial and needed lawyers to represent Kasab. Once the powers decide to hold a trial they have to ensure that the accused gets proper legal representation. As I said before, it is a thankless job but someone got to do it.
(5) The crux of the article was that being Kasab's lawyer is a stressful job because it not only disturbs his regular practice but has been disruptive to his family.
At the same time you refuse to see the crux of the article that being in the lime-light as Kasab's lawyer is not a ride in the park and comes with its own stresses and security risks.

You repeat the same point that kazmi was choosen which is not the case.

Kazmi went before judge Tahilyani and volunteered to fight Kasab's case and the judge appointed him.

This is from his interview in Rediff. Link

>>On that day in a meeting with the honourable judge and other members of the bar, I said that if no lawyer is coming forward to take up the case only then the court may consider me.

>>All of a sudden, out of blue, I was appointed by the respected judge. Kasab was merely informed about it.

So he volunteers and then complains about the low pay and security. It's like jumping in the well and complaining about getting wet.


VikramS wrote:There are people (who perhaps think like you) who were hostile to him, not realizing that having a trial WITHOUT providing Kasab with proper legal representation only opens up a can of worms (a lifetime of appeals and what not!).


Did you take the trouble to read Ghatate article? He is the former Vice-Chairman of the Law Commission of India and has a better understanding of matters related to law than us. He makes it clear kasab is an "enemy alien" and has no legal rights. Then why are you talking about these appeals that he is going to file. He doesnt have the right to file these appeals.


VikramS wrote:(6) I am not sure how a court appointed lawyer can withdraw from a case,

The same way the first court appointed lawyer anjali waghmare refused to defend kasab and withdrew from the case.

VikramS wrote:but do feel that 'I do not feel like it' is unlikely to be a sufficient enough reason, especially in a trial which has a global audience.

This is NOT a TV show that we should be bothered what the global audience thinks about this trial. The most important thing is to give justice to family members of those killed by kasab. And during interviews, family members have demanded that kasab be hanged. Their opinion is more important than providing entertainment to the global audience.

VikramS wrote:Your original post questions the lawyer's patriotism without any rational basis.

So the word "patriotic" in the first post riled you up. Let me clarify kazmi in an interview had called himself "patriotic" for taking up kasab case. A lawyer who defends a person like kasab who killed my countrymen in cold blood is certainly not patriotic for me nor for most Indians. If you are the same the vikram guy from twitter then please ask your colleagues in the govt controlled agency which conduct secret exit polls after elections to conduct a similar poll to elicit the opinion of indians regarding the fate of kasab. Most would agree kasab doesnt deserve a trial and should be disposed off as soon as possible.

VikramS wrote:Then you concluded that he is being greedy, again without any real evidence to back your statement up,

Getting Rs.2500 per day and saying this is all i get for my troubles is being greedy, just check what the soldiers get who defend our borders and put their life in danger everyday to protect us. They get less than what kazmi gets inspite of greater hardships they face.

VikramS if you are the same twitter vikram pls send a direct message with ur email id, lets continue this discussion thru email.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Raja Bose » 22 Nov 2009 03:29

2 linked to Mumbai terror attacks arrested in Italy

More "non-state" actors arrested - which would mean Pakistan is the largest "non-state" in the world!

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby AdityaM » 22 Nov 2009 05:37

Kasab should be hanged from a lamp post: Major Unnikrishnan's father

Yet another sad chapter was meeting the survivors in his team. Eight out of the 11 have joined back. But, other three people, one captain lost his eye. Luckily he got married. But he may lose his other eye also over a period of 5 years. Another person, who was in Trident hotel, suffered head injury. He still has a particle in his head


The toll on NSG is obviously much higher than the 2 martyrs.
Never heard of the injured captain before.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby VikramS » 22 Nov 2009 05:55

SShridhar: Since AvinashR did not honor the curfew, I reserve the right to make a response.
--------------------

AvinashR

Your malice seems to be clouding how to interpret the information which is coming forward.

(1) The original lawyer was ASKED to withdraw because she was in talks to represent a victim of the attack. The integrity of the trial would have been compromised because of this conflict of interest.

(2) This person volunteered IF no one else was willing to take the case. Do you see the difference between asking to represent someone and offering to become the fall back option so that the trial can proceed.

(3) You continue to harp about how many legal gurus felt that Kasab did not deserve a trial. However, once the powers to be decided to hold a trial all those arguments are useless. Once a trial is started unless it is executed in a fair manner, you are going to open up a can of worms. You can not have a trial, award a death sentence and then say that no appeals because there should have been no trial in the first place.

Hope you understand the difference.

(4) The underworld survives with tacit and active support of the elected representatives of the people of India. If this lawyer represents the underworld, I am quite sure he makes a LOT more than 50K/month.

--------------------------
I have noted a tendency of some posters on BR to cast aspersion on a certain class of people without any substantive evidence; pure speculation. Though we all reserve the right to our views, jumping the gun without a rational analysis of the available evidence, weakens the hand of the nationalist forces.

And Too many Cry Wolves and the people on the fence stop believing you. Folks, preserve your anger and direct it towards people who truly deserve it; otherwise you end up hurting your own credibility.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Muppalla » 22 Nov 2009 08:11

AdityaM wrote:Kasab should be hanged from a lamp post: Major Unnikrishnan's father

Yet another sad chapter was meeting the survivors in his team. Eight out of the 11 have joined back. But, other three people, one captain lost his eye. Luckily he got married. But he may lose his other eye also over a period of 5 years. Another person, who was in Trident hotel, suffered head injury. He still has a particle in his head


The toll on NSG is obviously much higher than the 2 martyrs.
Never heard of the injured captain before.


It is still tearful to read the interview when you think being in his shoes(I don't even know I can react properly if I happen to meet him):

Sandeep inspired many with his brave act. How does it feel?

I am proud of what he did, but didn’t want to lose him. Everyone wants a Bhagat Singh or a Bose but in neighbour’s house. I too feel so now. We don’t want money. I am actually giving it back in parts. Sandeep’s sixth pay commission arrears is more than enough. Only that is our right.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SSridhar » 22 Nov 2009 08:24

Avinash & Vikram, no more post on the lawyer issue. That will earn both of you official warning.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Charlie » 22 Nov 2009 09:02

Times Online:- 'Mastermind' of Mumbai attack preaches at mosque in Lahore

Come Friday prayers in Lahore, it is not hard to find the alleged mastermind of the Mumbai attacks.

Hafiz Mohammed Saeed is neither in hiding nor in jail. The founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba is instead delivering a sermon to thousands of devoteees at the Jamia al-Qadsia mosque — one of the biggest in the city.

“God has promised to make Muslims a superpower if we follow the right path,” Mr Saeed told his followers, who listened in rapt silence.

Outside, policemen with machineguns stood guard and bearded security men frisked all those entering. “Our rulers are the slave of America and have sold their conscience for a few dollars,” continued the diminutive former university teacher, his long beard dyed red with henna.

Timothy Roemer, the US Ambassador in Delhi, backed Indian calls this week for Pakistan to bring Mr Saeed and six other Mumbai suspects to justice. “We need to see actions and results from Pakistan,” he said after India handed Pakistan a seventh dossier of evidence on the Mumbai attacks.

Analysts say that the problem lies with Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency, which backed Mr Saeed when he founded Lashkar-e-Taiba in 1990 to fight Indian rule in the disputed region of Kashmir. Under pressure from the US, Pakistan banned the group in 2002, but it continued to operate under the banner of Jamaat-ud Dawa, which Mr Saeed also founded and calls a charity organisation.

A UN Security Council resolution last December declared Jamaat-ud Dawa a front for Lashkar-e-Taiba, forcing Pakistan to freeze its assets and jail many of its activists. Mr Saeed was put under house detention, but released after a few months when a court ruled that action against him and his group was illegal.

This week a Lahore court threw out two anti-terrorism cases against him. The court also found no evidence that Jamaat-ud Dawa was involved in terrorism, and it should be allowed to operate freely. Pakistani officials say that they are serious about cracking down on militant groups, but there is not enough evidence to put Mr Saeed back on trial.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 926358.ece

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Raja Bose » 22 Nov 2009 09:34

AdityaM wrote:The toll on NSG is obviously much higher than the 2 martyrs.
Never heard of the injured captain before.


Thats Capt AK Singh - he got injured from splinter injuries in Trident. There was also another NSG guy (Manish) who was temporarily paralyzed due to splinter injuries. They are all in the same picture with Maj. Unnikrishnan:

Image

As far as I know only AK Singh is not back on active duty - he is desk bound now (and maybe Sunil Kumar).

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby arun » 22 Nov 2009 10:18

Raja Bose wrote:2 linked to Mumbai terror attacks arrested in Italy

More "non-state" actors arrested - which would mean Pakistan is the largest "non-state" in the world!


Despite it being public knowledge that these two Pakistani’s were involved in the transfer of funds for the VOIP service used for the 26/11 Mumbai terrorist attack, as late as February 2009 they were openly above ground and interacting with the media:

Gerard wrote:Italy: Pakistani money agent denies link to Mumbai attacks
A Pakistani money transfer agent in the northern Italian city of Brescia has denied any involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks which killed 173 people last November. Mohammed Yaqub Janjua is the owner of the Madina Trading telephone centre and Western Union branch which was allegedly used by a collaborator linked to the attacks.
The account with Callphonex was allegedly set-up by a man called Kharak Singh, who claimed to be of Indian nationality. However, an individual named Mohammed Ashfaq is said to have activated the account after a moneygram was transferred under his name.

The payment was made from Yaqoub's agency in Brescia.


I wonder what it was that made the Italians leave them unmolested till now.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Raja Bose » 22 Nov 2009 10:33

A number of reasons - making the case more water tight - using them as decoy to nab as many more fish as possible - sheer laziness - waiting for dhamki from unkil - waiting for baksheesh from Yindia - waiting for explicit orders from Raj mata.......

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby sum » 22 Nov 2009 13:49

Praveen Swami says the Italians were waiting all this while for the duo to turn up from Pak:

Brescia arrest driven by fears on terror infrastructure

NEW DELHI: For the best part of a year, Italian investigators watched patiently over a nondescript business in Brescia, hoping that two men who played a critical role in guiding the terrorists to their targets in Mumbai last November would one day show up.

On Saturday, their patience paid off.

Pakistani nationals Mohammad Yaqub Janijua and his son aren’t jihadists. Neither of them, as far as anyone knows, ever held a gun or recruited operatives. Indeed, intelligence sources in New Delhi told The Hindu, it was not certain whether they were aware that the money they wired to the United States a day before last year’s tragic attacks in Mumbai was linked to terrorism.

But their business, the Madina Trading Corporation, was willing to make international wire-transfer payments without demanding identification papers — an illegal but commonplace practice that serves not just terrorists but also illegal immigrants without travel documents and businesses seeking to evade taxes.


Iqbal travelled from his home in Barcelona to Brescia to make the transfer, possibly because he was aware that the Madina Trading Corporation would agree to make the illegal funds transfer. Later, Pakistani authorities lured him home, where he is facing trial for his role in the carnage.

Both sets of voice-over-Internet accounts were used by Pakistan-based Lashkar commanders to guide the fidayeen squads which carried out the attacks to their targets, and then control the course of the operation.

India’s intelligence services suspect — but have been unable to prove — that the transfer was arranged by the Lashkar’s commander for transcontinental operations, Sajid Mir.

Mir has a long record of involvements in operations routed through, or targeting, Europe and Australia.

French national Willie Brigitte, who trained at a Lashkar-e-Taiba camp in 2001-2002, was tasked by Mir with executing attacks against targets in Australia. In May, 2003, United Kingdom-based Lashkar financier Shahzad Ashraf routed funds from Mir for Brigitte’s finally-unsuccessful operation.

Brigitte collected the money from two Paris-based Pakistani nationals Maradi Din Sheikh and Hussain Fazal. Both men were linked to Ghulam Mustafa Rama, who was later convicted for sending several French men to Lashkar training camps.

Richard Reid, an al-Qaeda linked terrorist who attempted to blow up a Paris-Miami flight in December 2001, is also thought to have had contact with Rama.

Reid received extensive funding to travel across the world studying airport security procedures,

French investigating magistrate Jean-Louis Bruguiere, whose new book Ce que je n’ai pas pu dire (What I could not say) has made new disclosures on the Lashkar’s European operations, is among the growing ranks of European security experts who believe that the Pakistan-based terror group poses a global threat.

“Lashkar-e-Taiba is no longer a Pakistani movement with only a Kashmir political or military agenda. Lashkar-e-Taiba is a member of the al-Qaeda. Lashkar-e-Taiba has decided to expand violence worldwide,” he told Reuters correspondent Myra McDonald in a recent interview.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby sum » 22 Nov 2009 13:50

Raja Bose wrote:
AdityaM wrote:The toll on NSG is obviously much higher than the 2 martyrs.
Never heard of the injured captain before.


Thats Capt AK Singh - he got injured from splinter injuries in Trident. There was also another NSG guy (Manish) who was temporarily paralyzed due to splinter injuries. They are all in the same picture with Maj. Unnikrishnan:

Image

As far as I know only AK Singh is not back on active duty - he is desk bound now (and maybe Sunil Kumar).

Sir, who in the pic is AK Singh?

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Raja Bose » 22 Nov 2009 14:42

^^ Going Left to Right: Amitendra Kumar Singh, unidentified, Sandeep Unnikrishnan, PV Manish. BTW Manish was injured in same incident as AK Singh at Trident.

And whats with this Sir business, hain?

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 07:36

Italian police explain how VoIP was used for 26/11
Excerpts
In an internal PowerPoint presentation, of which The Hindu has obtained a copy, the Italian police and their top anti-terrorist unit, the DIGOS (Divisione Investigazioni Generali e Operazioni Speciali Antiterrorismo, spell out exactly how Pakistani operatives, using a series of false identities, activated a U.S.-based Voice-over-Internet Protocol (VOIP) which was used by handlers in Pakistan to give orders to Pakistani terrorists during the November 26, 2008 Mumbai attacks.

The presentation also states that on November 25, the eve of the attack, a request went out from a certain Kharak Singh to the telephone company to activate 5 Austrian DID lines for the VOIP account in the name of Mohammed Ashfaq from Pakistan. The request bore the number 88647675.

Slide No 6 of the presentation states that: “On November 25, 2008 [underlined] from Brescia, a person of Pakistani origin used Western Union to make a second payment for the VOIP account again using the phantom name of Kharak Singh. This payment was communicated to the Callphonex user by the so-called Kharak Singh via email and gave details about the person making the payment. This email, obtained by the FBI from Callphonex, confirms the payment and identifies the sender as Javaid Iqbal, born on 31 December 1962, and whose address is given as No. 125 Via Milano in Brescia.”

•Iqbal Javaid (sic) had never transited through Italian territory and that he was residing legally in the Barcelona region of Spain;

•The persons running the Western Union agency via Madina Trading in Brescia had used Iqbal Javaid’s identity and details and those of other subjects, without their knowledge, to carry out money transfer operations with the specific intention of hiding the identity of the real senders of the money because they could not or did not wish to be identified.

•From 2006 to 2008 Madina Trading used the identity of Iqbal Javaid over 300 times to send money to various countries totalling over 400,000 Euros.

The order for the payment made on 25 November in fact came illegally using the havala/hundi method and was given by two individuals in Pakistan. Their details have been communicated to investigation agencies.

“During the attacks of November 26 the terrorists used the U.S. based number 201-253-1824 to communicate amongst themselves. The number is the property of the Belgian company Voxbone and was leased to the American telecommunications company Callphonex which has its headquarters in New Jersey, USA. Even during the attack phase of their operation, the terrorists’ commander continued to receive instructions and information by telephone from his handlers using the number 201-253-1824 for all calls routed to India,” the power-point presentation states.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 08:02

26/11 investigation led to a brick wall in Pakistan - Praveen Swami
In February, 2009, Pakistan’s Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik alleged that Barcelona resident Javed Iqbal was responsible for transferring funds to the United States-based voice-over-internet service used by the Lashkar to guide the assault unit that carried out the attacks.

“Having ascertained the involvement of Javed Iqbal,” Mr. Malik told journalists, “we somehow lured him into coming to Pakistan and he was arrested on his arrival.”

Pakistani investigators were reported to have discovered Mr. Iqbal’s role in the funds transfers after examining a computer used by a key Lashkar commander, identified by the code-name Zarar Shah.

But in an exclusive interview to The Hindu, Italian counter-terrorism police chief Stefano Fonzi asserted that Mr. Iqbal had never in fact travelled to his country—and was likely a victim of identity theft. . . .

Mr. Fonzi also said the owners of the funds acted on instructions from two Pakistan-based individuals he was not at liberty to name. It is unclear why Pakistan has not held the two suspects.

India investigators believe that the funds trail could lead to Sajid Mir—head of the Lashkar’s transcontinental operations, whose name has figured in investigations of terrorist cells stretching from Australia and Europe to the United States.

Many Indian investigators believe Mir, who remains at large, could in fact be Zarar Shah: the commander who guided the Mumbai assault team through the voice-over-internet connections purchased through Brescia.

Pakistani authorities have identified Sheikhupura resident Abdul Wajid as “Zarar Shah,” and charged him with organising these transactions. However, Pakistan has refused to allow the FBI access to Wajid, raising suspicions that he may in fact be a relatively low-level operative. It has also so far failed to provide Wajid’s voice samples, which would allow them to be matched against the audio in the intercepted phone calls.

Despite an official request, Indian authorities have also been denied photographs of Wajid, which would allow the Mumbai police to confirm if he is indeed the individual known as Zarar Shah to jihadists who met him in the past—among them alleged Indian Mujahideen co-founder Sadiq Israr Sheikh.

Both Indian and U.S.investigators have also been denied access to two other key suspects, Lashkar military chief Zaki-ur-Rahman Lakhvi and his deputy, Mazhar Iqbal.

“But without full cooperation from Pakistan,” a senior Indian intelligence official told The Hindu, “it is profoundly unlikely we’ll ever know the full picture.”

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Gagan » 23 Nov 2009 08:40

•From 2006 to 2008 Madina Trading used the identity of Iqbal Javaid over 300 times to send money to various countries totalling over 400,000 Euros.

This is majorly significant. This if followed through will lead to several plots and ISI sleeper cells and operations the world over.

Surely there must be more such money transfer operations in ouirope. The pakistanis have given up the middle east as the launch pad for international ops money transactions.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 08:50

26/11 Case: Proceedings still at a pre-trial stage in Pakistan - Nirupama Subramanian
Fewer than 20 hearings since the case was registered on February 12, one change of court, two changes of judge, the proceedings still in the pre-trial stage after one failed attempt at indictment, and a chance that the suspects may be formally charged by the court this week. This is where the 26/11 Mumbai attacks case stands in Pakistan.

The seven men in custody are Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, described as LeT operations commander and the “mastermind” of the attacks; Abdul Wajid alias Zarar Shah, also of the LeT and described as a “facilitator and expert of computer networks”; Hamad Amin Sadiq, who is charged with “facilitating funds and hideouts” for the Mumbai attackers; Mazhar Iqbal alias Abu al Qama, described as a “handler”; Shahid Jamil Riaz, who is described both as a facilitator for funds, as well as a crew member of a boat used by the attackers; Jamil Ahmed, described as a “facilitator”; and, Younus, also a “facilitator”.

The hearings are now held near-weekly, at the designated anti-terror court in Rawalpindi’s famous Adiala Jail. . . . Surprisingly, the United States, which usually watches closely all court proceedings that involve its interests — in this case, the lives of American citizens killed in the attack — has also not asked to observe the trial.

“There are too many sensitivities involved in this case. This could not have been a public hearing,” said Amir Rana, author of “A to Z of Jihad”, a study of militant groups in Pakistan, and head of the Pakistan Institute of Peace Studies.

The prosecution has filed two charge sheets, or “challans” against the seven suspects, but the framing of the charges by the court — their formal indictment after which the trial will begin — is still awaited.

The defence team is led by a top-grade Lahore-based criminal lawyer, 81-year-old Khwaja Sultan, who is representing Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi. It is not known how much he or the others in the team are charging for this case. According to bar-room buzz, complex criminal cases fetch lawyers anywhere between Rs. 5 lakh and Rs. 10 lakh. Four other lawyers are in the team: Malik Mohammed Rafiq Khan, also a veteran criminal lawyer;

The government has appointed a special prosecutor for the case, Malik Rab Nawaz Noon, also a reputed criminal lawyer.

Legal experts believe that if and when the trial begins, the prosecution is going to come up against all sorts of difficulties. It is unprecedented that the same case is being heard in both India and Pakistan, with the prosecution here relying on evidence not only from the FIA, but also that provided by Indian investigators.

One of the obvious legal tangles is to do with Ajmal Amir Kasab’s testimony to the court, and how much the prosecution here is planning to rely on it.

“When the accused are tried together, the confession before a magistrate of one accused will be conclusive proof against that accused, and court may also consider it as evidence against the other accused,” said Mr. Rafique Khan. “But when they are being tried in different court, such a confession cannot be used against the other accused. Kasab’s confession is not admissible before this court.”

Also, the defence team will be watchful of the Mumbai trial court’s verdict, and its possible “influence” on the trial here.

Some experts had suggested that rather than carry out a joint investigation, it was in the legal area that both sides needed to co-operate to take the case forward.

The case will continue, Mr. Rana said, but “the more noise India makes, the more anti-India people here become,” and the less and less interest among the powers-that-be in Pakistan to fast-track the proceedings.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Muns » 23 Nov 2009 19:10

Channel 4 : Terror in Mumbai :

Watch : http://www.hostingcup.com/4qzfg5kl7jbg.html

D/L : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WKSVYWD5

Edited : Watched now but no Fareed Zakaria. Hence the orginal Channel 4 production of Terror in Mumbai.
Last edited by Muns on 24 Nov 2009 00:08, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby sum » 23 Nov 2009 21:59

From the Chindu article on the Paki court case farce:
As a result, very little of the proceedings comes out in the media. The Indian High Commission has little choice but to follow the developments in the court through the media.

We have so little HUMINT that the media is the only source of info for the GoI about going ons in Pakiland?

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Raja Bose » 23 Nov 2009 23:09



Is that the brain dead Fareed Zakaria in the video (couldn't make out)? Armed men with "little" training indeed! I guess the training goes up proportionally with the TFTAness of the victim. 9/11 hijackers were "highly" trained otherwise how could they fool super duper amirkhan forces, Iraqi insurgents are "highly" trained otherwise how could they take US forces for a ride?! Ofcourse people with "little" training is all that is required to fool those turd-world forces. :roll:

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Ananya » 24 Nov 2009 04:02

sum wrote:From the Chindu article on the Paki court case farce:
As a result, very little of the proceedings comes out in the media. The Indian High Commission has little choice but to follow the developments in the court through the media.

We have so little HUMINT that the media is the only source of info for the GoI about going ons in Pakiland?


yes we have the limited INT because our genius whacko PM of the past gave away names......
Last edited by Ananya on 24 Nov 2009 04:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby Ananya » 24 Nov 2009 04:04

Intrestingly I was watching the mumbai episode of 26/11 one year on from Times. We seem to have gone to a philosophical mode of 'Buddam saram gacchami ;

we are helpless........

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Re: Mumbai Terrorist Attack-News stories and timeline

Postby jrjrao » 24 Nov 2009 04:18

This report by somebody named Tom Hussain has some new, but mostly self-serving, gossip from his ISI buddies about what they knew of Mumbai before it happened...

Peace with Pakistan was also a victim of Mumbai massacres
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll ... 39871/1002
In fact, rumours had started to circulate within security analyst circles as early as March 2008 that the militants were planning “something big in India”.

In the months immediately after the Mumbai attacks, Pakistani intelligence officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, had admitted that they had kept track of the militants’ preparations, but had been given the slip at a critical moment.

“Somewhere between the end of training and the launch of the operation, the militants disappeared. We have concluded that during that period, they were contacted by al Qa’eda operatives and given a new mission,” said an official, who was speaking without authorisation.

“The result was that the original operational parameters, which had been confined to attacking the Taj [palace hotel], were expanded to the terrorisation of the Mumbai public and the targeting of the Jewish community centre.”
Last edited by jrjrao on 24 Nov 2009 10:26, edited 1 time in total.


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