Bharat Rakshak

"a western analyst exposes our weakness to the rest.
i see no other recourse than wait and watch to address this asymmetric threat.Wait till the threat destroys itself ?"

These kind of analysts belong to a tribe of amoral jerks, who are holding their breath for some kind of devastating exchange on the subcontinent. Words like "nuclear chicken" and glib references to the Mumbai attack, and contemplated future attacks, betray the mindset. What is totally absent is a sense of responsibility by these analysts of America's, and the UK's, role in propping up this monster called Pakistan, and allowing it to develop a nuclear weapons capability. The US and UK would possess, at the least, criminal culpability, if the worst case scenario would ever become a reality. And one facet of the nuclear dimension that writers such as these( including the NY Times editors, and representatives of 'think tanks' like Carnegie, Wisconsin, Stratfor et al) ignore is the very real possibility of the devastating international impact of any Pakistani strike against India. Recalling that India's nuclear doctrine mentions retaliation not only against Pakistan, but against countries that have supplied Pakistan.

Pakistan court rejects terrorists' plea for acquittal

A Pakistani anti-terror court on Wednesday rejected an application seeking acquittal of LeT operations chief Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi and six others charged with helping plan and execute the Mumbai attacks.

It also turned down an application by the suspects for Ajmal Amir Kasab, the lone terrorist arrested alive during the attacks, to be brought to Pakistan from India for trial.

Judge Malik Muhammad Akram Awan, who is conducting the trial within Adiala Jail in Rawalpindi for security reasons, directed the prosecution to present evidence against the accused at the next hearing on January 16. {The real fun should start then provided no more hindrances are created before that}

For a Chronology of Delays in the trial, see here.

Recalling that India's nuclear doctrine mentions retaliation not only against Pakistan, but against countries that have supplied Pakistan.

Sorry but i disagree. Words are cheap.

Our "aggressiveness" and "no tolerance" has been seen by the world over and over again despite the gravest possible provocations right from the 80's. Every 2 bit nation also is ready to bi@tch-slap us.

Of the group of 7 on trail in Pakistan for 26/11, a few are supposed to be dummies. People standing in for the real goons.
This was alluded to several times by news reports when intel sources were wondering why Pakistan has not provided access or even photographs of the seven people being tried. There was suspicion that at least some of these people, as it is covered under several aliases (all of them seem to be 'Abu this' and 'Abu that') are stand ins, who are being paid to stand in the trail as accused.

Pakistani lahori logic and rustic sliminess in full flow here.

jrjrao wrote:Lying to ourselves
By RALPH PETERS
Link

Good read.
He has accurately outlined the problem. But stories / rants like these have this one big problem though.

Where he as well as everyone gets stuck at is the solution. I suspect that most Rakshaks including me, would too.

Somehow I feel that if there was to be a solution to this entire islamic fundamentalism / AQ thing, it is going to be a long process where pragmatism will win the day. Specifically not alienating the silent majority will play the most important part.
Afghanistan was important because it provided a free country for these rich educated misguided terrorists to roam and train freely. Now that this free country has been denied to the terrorists, other similar free countries (yemen, Somalia come to mind) need to be taken over.

The next job is to make sure that the leaderships and the people who fund and encourage this ideology meet painful and shameful ends. So that the fact that they were just as mortal as the next abdul, and infact groveled for their lives comes across clearly. The abdul needs to see that though the pious abduls didn't care for their lives when they suicide bombed the enemy, their terror masters were very mindful of retaining theirs to enjoy the pleasures of this life rather than the afterlife.

Someone mentioned a period of 1-2 decades to slowly let this philosophy die out.
And all along the way, every step of the way, care needs to be ensured that the silent majority does not get alienated.

This won't get done by brawn alone, a lot of brain needs to go into this.

Gagan wrote:Of the group of 7 on trail in Pakistan for 26/11, a few are supposed to be dummies. People standing in for the real goons.
This was alluded to several times by news reports when intel sources were wondering why Pakistan has not provided access or even photographs of the seven people being tried. There was suspicion that at least some of these people, as it is covered under several aliases (all of them seem to be 'Abu this' and 'Abu that') are stand ins, who are being paid to stand in the trail as accused.

Pakistani lahori logic and rustic sliminess in full flow here.

Gagan, The Pioneer Op-Ed "Karachi Project" posted in David Headley thread says three of the seven are dummies and paid some amount to take rap.

The real problem is to differentiate between Jihad and Fasad.
Islam explicitly prohibits killing of innocents. Anytime this happens it means its Fasad and not Jihad though the perpetrators may call it Jihad. All Fasadis since they do not follow any religion or any laws should be summmarily executed.
99.99% of terrorists are Fasadis. In fact in KSA itself they'll have their hands chopped off for what they do.

Gagan wrote:
Somehow I feel that if there was to be a solution to this entire islamic fundamentalism / AQ thing, it is going to be a long process where pragmatism will win the day. Specifically not alienating the silent majority will play the most important part.

Mumbai terrorist attacks may cost insurers over rs. 500 Crores

General insurers may suffer a loss of over Rs 500 crore due to the Mumbai terror attacks, according to the Insurance Regulatory and Development Authority (IRDA).

“This is the biggest estimated loss to the Terror Pool since its inception in 2002 and Rs 50 crore has already been released,'' IRDA said in its annual report for the year 2008-09 which was released on Wednesday.

The companies would also have to pay more for insurance under the terror pool as the rates were hiked on April 1, 2009.

Terrorism by Pakistan inflicted on India causes pain to Indians in multiple ways.

In short, Hindu nationalists or Hindu seculars depending on which version you choose to believe used Islamists from Pakistan to kill Indians. Yes. Nice.

Jarita, do not post excerpts without links, or without author name at least.

I received an email that aliens are actually responsible. Many of them have infiltrated the bodies of Americans and then engineered their own deployment into Pakistan. Once there, they created their own intel networks using locals and (alien technology of course) mind-controlled certain Lashkar and ISI gents to perpetrate the whole 26/11 thing.

Of course, it could simply be that the ISI decided it was time to teach India a lesson while testing out terror tactics to use later in other countries.

It is not that outlandish nonsense does not deserve a mention, it does. It is not that just because we are paranoid, there is no out there to get us.

But remember this, the easiest way to distract, delay and defer is to divert attention with things we would like to believe in but can never really prove. "They" are always responsible. The planning started 500 years ago, when Rockfeller No.1 got his first hard on. So spare us, unless you have an author at least or a link - so that it can be dismissed or considered on its merits and antecedents.

UK asks Pakistan to see Mumbai trial through

“That trial needs to be seen through in a full way. And if people are found guilty, they obviously need to be then punished,” he said. . . . He recalled that when he visited Pakistan in January 2009 in the wake of the Mumbai attacks, he had said that “Pakistani authorities needed to move farther and faster in tackling the roots of those attacks because they were not just murderous in themselves but they were a grave danger to the cooperation between India and Pakistan”.

Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar died because of an unfortunate set of circumstances which includes not understanding what they were up against (no precedence). They actually believed that they were up against some Dcompany folks and the mere presence of Salaskar etc would make the D-Company kids sH*t in their pants. IIRC even the handlers were surprised to hear that a "commissioner" was killed.

** deleted **

Rudradev,
If you are convinced that the PM of India is working in collusion with Dawood gang and is about to sell the country, then there is nothing you can do by posting it in an internet forum which does not welcome your "facts".
And no, I have no intention of getting into another long winded debate trying to justify my action. If you don't like it, just think that we mods are pseudo sec, about to sell the country and you are on the righteous patriotic path. But no more of your tirade.

CT posts sent to 4545

Here are the facts (please feel free to refute them with respectable references if you can comprehend any)

There were SEVEN people the Qualis that went to Cama from VT, SIX of them were killed in the indiscriminate firing that took place. One of them, Constable Arun Jadhav survived with five bullet wounds which nearly severed his elbow and deposed before special court.

So whatever anonymous emails you wish to publicize using BRF as the platform MUST account for the SIX deaths, the stealing of the qualis after their bodies were thrown out, and constable Arun Jadhav and his five bullet wounds.

By conveniently pointing only to Karkare you are insulting the deaths of other five.
** deleted **

You know what George J, you want SSridhar to back off? well let us make things easy for you. You seem to be in much agony in this "hot air forum" so let us put you out of it. Goodbye.

~Banned.

JE Menon wrote:In short, Hindu nationalists or Hindu seculars depending on which version you choose to believe used Islamists from Pakistan to kill Indians. Yes. Nice.

No. The theory is that Karkare was killed by the RSS working with the Mossad. This is what the Islamists (Indian or Pakistani) are being told.

Mumbai Terror Attacks: The Mossad Angle

Mumbai Terror Attack: Further Evidence Of The Anglo-American-Mossad-RSS Nexus

Read the comments on the second link. Too many people believe this CT.

Those are still Conspiracy Theories from Left Liberal elite in India.

I think this author is more the voice of the Muslim Right.

India's secret history: 'A holocaust, one where millions disappeared...'

^^ I am sure that Israel will hunt down the masterminds of Chabad house - Mumbai attack like they did it for Munich attack, and in 5 years time we will hear some news that LET masterminds were blown up mysteriously in Pakistan. I am not sure India will do anything but I believe Israel will for sure.

archan:

Is this harsh response really necessary? Losing people who have had valuable contributions to the site and the forum over the years for a small spat seems silly.

Getting 3 warnings, returning after a monthlong ban and getting a 4th one, all within 6 months is quite a feat if you ask me.

PS: since you are not SSridhar , no more explanation needed from my side.

archan, boss, I think this is another Sridhar. Not sure he can access the mod forum.

Sridhar, pls write to mods if you feel you need to raise an issue.

Damn! What's happening to my eyesight! first I read pagalguy wrong and now this.

you know JEM-saar, dont leave those aliens out yet. Considering the way things are going in BRF, I accuse The Grays of a rather co-ordinated disruption of this forum. Blue on blue fratricide is abnormally high. And it is no fun

Sridhar wrote:archan:

Is this harsh response really necessary? Losing people who have had valuable contributions to the site and the forum over the years for a small spat seems silly.

don't worry, those 3 months will do GJ a world of good, he will be in a better mood when he returns since spring will be here and best of all, his currently active warnings will expire by that time.

I second what Sridhar is saying, GJ is and has been a valuable asset on here!

Another stunt to waste time and delay the trial

Lakhvi files plea seeking transfer of case to Lahore court
PTI, 13 January 2010, 02:16pm IST

LAHORE: Lashker-e-Taiba operations commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, one of seven suspects facing trial in connection with the Mumbai terror attacks, today filed an application seeking the transfer of his case from Rawalpindi to this eastern Pakistani city due to a purported threat to his life.

Lakhvi's lawyer Khwaja Sultan filed the application in the Lahore High Court that alleged LeT commander faced a threat to his life as a number of agents of the Indian spy agency Research and Analyses Wing were present in Rawalpindi.

The application said the case against Lakhvi should be transferred from an anti-terror court in Rawalpindi to Lahore and that he should be shifted to a jail in this eastern city.

Lakhvi also complained that authorities at Adiala Jail in Rawalpindi, where he is currently being held, were not allowing him to meet his lawyer.

Lahore High Court Chief Justice Khwaja Muhammad Sharif, who heard the application, issued notices to the federal Interior Secretary, Attorney General and Advocate General of Punjab province to respond to Lakhvi's plea at the next hearing, which has been scheduled for January 21.

The Chief Justice also issued notice to the superintendent of Adiala Jail and directed him to allow Lakhvi to meet his lawyer.


More ridiculous allegations against India and the judge

Lakhvi says India 'blackmailing' Pak judge
13 Jan 2010, 1644 hrs IST

Lashker-e-Taiba operations commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, one of seven suspects facing trial in connection with the Mumbai terror attacks, on Wednesday (January 13) accused India of pressuring the judge presiding over the 26/11 trial in Pakistan.

Lakhvi also said India is resorting to blackmail linking peace talks with a favourable outcome to the 26/11 trial. TIMES NOW spoke with Lakhvi’s lawyer Sultan Ahmed who has filed a petition with the Chief Justice of the Lahore High Court asking the trial to be transferred from the Adiala jail court in Rawalpindi to Lahore.

The lawyer alleged that the judge is under the pressure from the Pakistan and Indian governments.

Lakhvi is in a tight spot. He is the one who is identified by name and by his photographs. No escape for him.

The rest of the gang of 7 are apparantly dummies mostly. Hafiz sayeed is not even on trail.

Avinash's post above speaks of terror threat to Lakhvi at Rawalpindi from Indian agents and pressure on the judge hearing the case there.
Nirupama Subramanian's report in The Hindu speaks of threats to the lives of Lakhvi's lawyers !! Firing on all cylinders.

Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, one of the seven men facing trial in the 26/11 Mumbai attacks case in a Pakistani anti-terrorism court, has asked the Lahore High Court to transfer it to a more secure court as defence lawyers purportedly face a threat to their lives from Indian intelligence agencies, and also as the judge hearing the case is “not impartial.”

Adiala is a maximum security prison. But the application, filed on Wednesday, says the defence lawyers fear being killed by the Research and Analysis Wing, the Indian intelligence agency.

It says each time there is a hearing, the lawyers have to wait outside the main gates of the jail without security until they get clearance from officials inside to enter, and they fear being targeted.

The application also mentions inconvenience inside the jail, such as the absence of a consultation room where the accused can meet their lawyers, and amenities like water and food.

One pooch... in the mumbai attack and the recent srinagar attack, our agencies were listening to the conversations between the pigs and their handlers live, given that couldnt we have cut off the handlers, brought in say a punjabi mimicry artist who could impersonate one of the handlers on the call and asked the pigs to surrender ...

An offbeat story on 26/11 having embedded itself on Indian book stands by way of a comic book. :

Pow! Wham! Ka-chow!

Last Updated: January 14. 2010 1:20PM UAE / January 14. 2010 9:20AM GMT

As India’s discussion of the Mumbai attacks begins to drift into pop culture, Aman Sethi scans the nation’s comic book stands, where make-believe heroes take cues from the hawkish political right.

The first anniversary of the November 26 terror attacks in Mumbai was marked in India by a deluge of news programmes, special remembrance features and radio talk shows. On television screens and editorial pages, the previous November’s itching desire to “teach Pakistan a lesson” – exemplified by the fading Bollywood actress Simi Garewal’s public call to carpet-bomb the place – seemed to have been replaced by a more inwardly-directed call to “learn lessons”. Shunning explicit calls to war, pundits instead mulled the need for increased military expenditure, national identity cards and increased public surveillance.

The inevitable outpouring of mainstream “26/11” cultural production has yet to occur (although the Bollywood director Ram Gopal Verma surveyed the Taj Hotel’s burnt shell for material for his next film), but the first signs are showing up – in comics. In November, Raj Comics published 26/11, a fantastical re-imagining of the three days during which 10 gunmen stormed two five-star hotels and the Chhatrapati Shivaji train station, killing 166 people in the process..........................

The article goes on to discuss a comic book called “Yeh Dil Maange More” on Captain Vikram Batra and one more on Colonel Neelakantan Jayachandran Nair.

Read it all:

The National

Very difficult to understand, these Indians, myself included. On the one hand, we had huge programmes on 26/11/2009, extensive debates, comics that mask our impotency after 26/11 by fantasizing like this Raj comics book posted above, and yet in less than two months after that, we have this Aman ki Asha tamasha. We have Jaswant Singh who is repeatedly willing to work for peace with Pakistan even as he says Pakistan betrayed him everytime. The response to Aman ki Asha is terrific. 71% say people-to-people peace efforts will succeed, even as ToI has screaming headlines of BSF capturing a human suicide bomber (the first in 18 years after Dhanu), increased infiltrations and terror strikes etc. etc. It is hard to find more gullible and dhimmified set of people.

suryag wrote:One pooch... in the mumbai attack and the recent srinagar attack, our agencies were listening to the conversations between the pigs and their handlers live, given that couldnt we have cut off the handlers, brought in say a punjabi mimicry artist who could impersonate one of the handlers on the call and asked the pigs to surrender ...

In Mumbai one security man did talk to the handlers and pretended to be someone speaking for the terrorist who was unable to come to the phone, but the handlers got suspicious and IIRC cut off the call.

There are some advantages to listening only. Talking and mimicry can fail all too easily and the actual manner in which the snooping is done can get exposed. I got an interesting insight into the Mumbai attacks when I was revisiting all the real time recordings I had made from TV and was trying to tie up those events with the recorded conversations with terorists.

In the TV recordings it was reported that "it is believed that the hostages in Chabad house may be dead". Nobody knew at that time that the fact that they had been killed had been established by the people who were listening to the conversations in real time so that the spl forces could plan their assault appropriately, knowing that there were no hostages left alive.

SSridhar wrote:We have Jaswant Singh who is repeatedly willing to work for peace with Pakistan even as he says Pakistan betrayed him everytime.

He wants to impress "my friend Strobe", or else he won't get invitations like Mush does for posh kushy events in US, and after giving customary "India and US are natural allies" speech, he gets to go horse riding in Virginia, one of his passions.

One question - have we not compromised our ability to listen in to future conversations between terrorists and their handlers by revealing the extent to which they can be intercepted? Why are these tapes of conversations, enlightening as they may be to regular citizens, being released at all?

Sridhar the bad guys already know it. What this revelation does is add authenticity to the Indian claims of origin of the attacks. Hithertofore it was smirked that US provided technology etc as if its largesse.

As India already proscribed pre-paid mobiles without IMIE number a large number of cell phones were taken off the table.

Makes sense, Ramana.

Ill. terrorism suspects indicted in Mumbai attack
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/ ... 16381.html

CHICAGO — Two Chicago men were indicted Thursday on charges they planned a violent attack on a Danish newspaper and helped lay the groundwork for the November 2008 terrorist rampage that killed 166 people in the Indian city of Mumbai.

Retired Pakistani military officer Abdur Rehman Hashim Syed and reputed terrorist leader Ilyas Kashmiri — described as having been in regular contact with al-Qaida's No. 3, Sheikh Mustafa Abu al-Yazid — also were charged in the new indictment.

The charges against Headley, formerly named Daood Gilani, are the same as those included by the government in a criminal information filed in federal court last fall. But the charges against Rana have been expanded to include participation in the Mumbai attacks.

Prosecutors have alleged that in a secretly recorded conversation in September 2009, Rana and Headley discussed the possible attack in Denmark as well as attacks on Bollywood, the Indian film industry; Somnath, a temple; and Shiv Sena, a political party with strains of Hindu nationalism.

They said Headley and Rana also spoke about a meeting between Rana and a man they called "Pasha" days before 10 gunmen rampaged through Mumbai. Prosecutors said Pasha is Syed.

ramana wrote:Sridhar the bad guys already know it.

Apart from the bad guys 'knowing it', the bad guys are also cocking a snook at us. The ISI has many times deliberately left trails and the insufficient retaliation by India encourages them to use simple techniques (that are less costly) even if they lead to exposure.