Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

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RayC
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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 08 Jul 2009 21:09

Avinash,

Links please.

Copyright requirement!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Anujan » 08 Jul 2009 21:09

narayanan wrote:I realize that BRF is an India-centric forum, but we do have to look beyond India and Kushan history etc to see the forces and linkages of Xinjiang-PRC. OTOH, Tibet is certainly of very strong Indian interest, and not really any business of others.

N^3
Nobody (atleast I did not) sympathize with Uighurs because of historical connections.

My sole objective is to make sure that the Chinese duplicity in handling this is brought out: The No 1 superpower which goes all out on tanks and bullets on protesting "goons" (as you call them) is not because of any enhanced sense of national interest or inborn sense of duty or efficiency. It is simply a symptom of the political system which rewards you with progress for ideological purity and scratching the musharraf of your boss. (As opposed to democracy, where atleast for appearances, you have to show some sympathy for Kalavati). So the former political system produces local officials who provide "correct leadership" and drive up in tanks, whereas the latter debate it in the parliament and the news media to show that everybody's sentiments are taken into account.

This is what I want to drill into everyone's heads. So much for the lizard's efficiency. I say Saddam was more efficient with the Shias, Kurds and Marsh Arabs. To achieve that kind of efficiency, we should all have a army oligarchy driven coup I say !

The second thing I wanted to drill into everyone (which for me is a personal celebration. My cousin wrote up a explanatory post in the BENIS dhaaga), is the difference in reaction between cashmere and Xinjiang. Whereas in cashmere 1000,000,000 Indian soldiers are raping every cashmiri women 100 times a day and are flooding the place with Yindus, Yehudis and Yamrikhans, Cheenis declared Xinjiang to be "Autonomous region" (Just as much azad as azad cashmere) and are handling the situation for social harmony, advancement of the proletariat, preventing the three evils, adhering to the Hu doctrine while having a eye on the red book. Just like the Pakis handled the terrorists so efficiently in Swat and provided for good accommodation for the people who were inconvenienced (some 2 million of them I gather). This has to be spread to everyone, inside and outside India. All that means, is that solidarity should be shown for cashmeerees but no solidarity to be shown with that part of the Ummah. The swati Ummah and Uighur ummah are having a good time, keeping busy with their 72.

In short, I want to show my Musharraf on "Chinis are efficient and know how to run a country" while wagging my mijjile at "We will show solidarity to Ummah at the drop of a hat".

The Arjuna invading Kamboja was a fig leaf so as to keep us from asking why we are doing all that waving. Sometimes I post what I think, other times I am tempted to provide "correct leadership" like the CCP.
Last edited by Anujan on 08 Jul 2009 21:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Avinash R » 08 Jul 2009 21:15

RayC wrote:Avinash,Links please.Copyright requirement!

Previous post edited and links added for 2 reports. Third report is also from outlook but cant find the exact link.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RajeshA » 08 Jul 2009 21:32

RayC wrote:Thus, from the Indian standpoint, no matter how important the issue may appear to be geopolitically or geostrategically, it remains a non starter.


- As long as the Pakjabis have the say in matters Afghanistan, themselves imprisoned in the Indo-Pak dynamics.

The core issue remains the direction of the Islamist exhaust pipe.

PRC has the Pakjabi Army doing its work in directing that exhaust pipe. What happens when one day, the Pakjabi Army either changes direction or ceases to exist in its current form? Who would come to Talibanistan and apprehend ETIM fighters for PRC? We already know of how the Pushtuns even refused to hand OBL to USA post 911! Wouldn't the Taliban retain their sense of 'hospitality' in a post TSPA-world?

As of now, thanks heavens, Indian Muslims are not waging any active war against their Homeland under the pretext of some Islamic cause or the other. The big trouble spot remains the Kashmir Muslims, but Indian State has managed to keep the train on the rails.

So what kind of Islamists would be attending classes in the Taliban University of Peshawar, capital of Pushtunistan?

Fa-kap must continue! Some directions of the exhaust pipe are to the advantage of India.

If TSPA has been PRC's cat's paw against India for the last 45 years, isn't it worthwhile for India to consider a similar accommodation with Taliban and the Arab 'League', if they agree to not cause India too much discomfort?

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby SwamyG » 08 Jul 2009 21:32

I mean, 3/4 of their armies would have died getting through the mountains of Kashmir, long before they had to cross the 5 big rivers.

Good question. I wondered why Pandyas, Cheras, Andhras and Cholas went and participated in that war too.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 08 Jul 2009 21:58

RajeshA wrote:
RayC wrote:Thus, from the Indian standpoint, no matter how important the issue may appear to be geopolitically or geostrategically, it remains a non starter.


- As long as the Pakjabis have the say in matters Afghanistan, themselves imprisoned in the Indo-Pak dynamics.

The core issue remains the direction of the Islamist exhaust pipe.

PRC has the Pakjabi Army doing its work in directing that exhaust pipe. What happens when one day, the Pakjabi Army either changes direction or ceases to exist in its current form? Who would come to Talibanistan and apprehend ETIM fighters for PRC? We already know of how the Pushtuns even refused to hand OBL to USA post 911! Wouldn't the Taliban retain their sense of 'hospitality' in a post TSPA-world?

As of now, thanks heavens, Indian Muslims are not waging any active war against their Homeland under the pretext of some Islamic cause or the other. The big trouble spot remains the Kashmir Muslims, but Indian State has managed to keep the train on the rails.

So what kind of Islamists would be attending classes in the Taliban University of Peshawar, capital of Pushtunistan?

Fa-kap must continue! Some directions of the exhaust pipe are to the advantage of India.

If TSPA has been PRC's cat's paw against India for the last 45 years, isn't it worthwhile for India to consider a similar accommodation with Taliban and the Arab 'League', if they agree to not cause India too much discomfort?


Pakistan has to survive.

Without China and Saudi Arabia, she is nude!

Sher Khan awaits Mowgli!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby SwamyG » 08 Jul 2009 22:06

If TSPA has been PRC's cat's paw against India for the last 45 years, isn't it worthwhile for India to consider a similar accommodation with Taliban and the Arab 'League', if they agree to not cause India too much discomfort?

What makes you think that India can control them effectively, they will return to bite us back. Adding more fuel to Islamism is not good for India.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby sanjaykumar » 08 Jul 2009 22:52

If the world adopts their cause, they will not turn "Islamist". Note that there is no mention of Turkestan in the Dawn, but it notes 17 injured in Kashmir. That should establish Turkestan's bona fides.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Prem » 08 Jul 2009 23:08

SwamyG wrote:
If TSPA has been PRC's cat's paw against India for the last 45 years, isn't it worthwhile for India to consider a similar accommodation with Taliban and the Arab 'League', if they agree to not cause India too much discomfort?

What makes you think that India can control them effectively, they will return to bite us back. Adding more fuel to Islamism is not good for India.

It will all depend on India 's capacity and will to remove their neck sharply and smothly , both absent in GOI's thinking . Right now Talibani, Pakibani, Uigherstani and Han Chinese are on each other's throat and this Must continue for few more years, no less no more. Support and help each and every one from time to time in singing "aaoo kill karre "
Last edited by Prem on 08 Jul 2009 23:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 08 Jul 2009 23:08

Troops pour into city in China's restive west
By WILLIAM FOREMAN, Associated Press Writer William Foreman, Associated Press

URUMQI, China – Hundreds of helmeted troops in riot gear swarmed the central square of the capital of western Xinjiang on Wednesday after ethnic riots left at least 156 dead. The city's Communist Party boss promised that those behind the killings would be executed.

Ethnic clashes have paralyzed Urumqi in the past several days — with minority Uighur and Han Chinese mobs roaming the streets and attacking each other. The violence forced President Hu Jintao to cut short a trip to Italy where he was to take part in a Group of Eight summit — an unprecedented move by a Chinese leader.

..Xinhua News Agency reported that more than 20,000 armed police, special police, firefighters and troops had been dispatched to quell theunrest.

Communist Party chief Li Zhi told a televised news conference that many people had been arrested, including students.

"To those who committed crimes with cruel means, we will execute them," he said..
..Li would not say how many of the 156 dead were Han ... "key rioters should be punished with the utmost severity."
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At the Urumqi People's Hospital, a newlywed who was attacked said she does not know what happened to her husband.

"He must be unconscious. ... They have been searching the urgent care wards but have not found him yet," said Dong Yuanyuan. Dong was leaving for her honeymoon with her husband on Sunday when they were dragged off a bus and beaten unconscious.

... swarms of police and paramilitary troops patrolling the streets where armed Han Chinese also wandered in groups. About 50 Han Chinese, many carrying metal rods, ...

In a Uighur neighborhood, people carried rocks and makeshift weapons — a knife attached to the end of a wooden stick in one instanceand stood guard in groups.

the riots that started Sunday ..were triggered by the June 25 deaths of Uighur factory workers during a brawl in the southern Chinese city of Shaoguan. State-run media have said two workers died, but many Uighurs believe more were killed and said the incident was an example of how little the government cared about them.
.....


"The police came to us and told us to shut down our Internet cafe for the next three days, but who knows how long this will last," said the manger of the Huo Zhou Internet cafe in Turpan. He would give only his surname, Pei.
...all the services for cell phones, except making and receiving calls, had been suspended, including sending and receiving text messages — one of the major ways Twitter messages are distributed.

Concerns about what was happening in Xinjiang have even extended to Beijing. A clerk at the Furong Hotel, a two-star hotel, said they received a notice from local police branch Tuesday asking them to report to the police if they received any Uighurs or Tibetans. She said there were no orders not to receive them as guests.[/quote]

Now note the nuances in Unkilistani reporting.
Factfile with map and chronology on the Uighurs of Xinjiang, China. Mobs wielding makeshift weapons roamed this restive city, with vigilantes pummelling two Uighur Muslims, despite a massive show of force by Chinese troops that brought some calm.
(AFP/Graphic)


Wow! Look how well-planned and built-up this remote place is! Long Live Mao's Revolution!

Not all officials are Han.
Urumqi Mayor Jerla Isamudin
Isn't Urumqui Majority Han?

But then
Urumqi's Communist Party First Secretary Li Zhi


Police, armed with CROSS-BOWs?

Chinese Military helicopter drops leaflets

How come no Red Star or Hammer-Sickle-Star? It has an Impeliarist-looking Shield or Coat of Arms painted on its side!

Uighur residents look at a car damaged by Han mob

These people are not poor, hey?

Looks like Malloo Infrastructure Improvement Experts are already there!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 08 Jul 2009 23:09


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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 08 Jul 2009 23:11



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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby derkonig » 08 Jul 2009 23:15

Sanjayji,
IMHO Islamism can be best tackled by playing up the ethnic differences between the peelivers. So if Uighurstan needs the Islamist 'push' today, let them have the best & purest of Ijjlam. Ethnic differences can go a long way in keeping the peelivers occupied amongst themselves. Case in point being the land of pure, where the ethnic conflicts often take on the garb of pure & purer ijjlam.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby shravan » 08 Jul 2009 23:26

BEFORE THE HOUSE INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE - June 16, 2009
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Oppressed Uighurs in East Turkestan (China’s Xinjiang province) are neglected relics of the “big power” politics that informed the 1945 Yalta Conference’s cynical division of Europe and Asia. As President George W. Bush declared in Riga, Latvia on May 6, 2005, “[T]he Yalta Conference was a huge mistake in history.” And Uighur subjugation under Chinese Communist (PRC) tyranny has intensified.

The Uighur people occupy a corner of Central Asia called “Xinjiang or the New Territory” by the PRC. During the Nineteenth Century, they were a pawn in the hands of the Russian and British Empires. Sporadic uprisings against their oppressors eventuated in the short-lived establishment of an independent Uighur republic in 1944. But Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin quickly exerted control over the new republic through KGB infiltration of the Uighur leadership. As a derivative of the Yalta Conference, Stalin signed the Sino-Soviet Friendship Treaty on August 14, 1945, which sold out the independent East Turkestan to China. The United States acquiesced because it wished to strengthen the hand of Generalissimo Chiang Kai Sheik in his civil war with Communist Mao Tse Tung. Further, the United States then thought that the Soviet Union would be a cooperative partner in advancing its policies in the Far East. The 1945 Pact was followed by the Sino-Soviet Treaty inked by Stalin and Mao in Moscow on February 14, 1950, which extinguished any idea of an independent Uighur republic for the duration of the Cold War. Chairman Mao is said to have clucked, “Xinjiang is a colony, a Chinese colony.”

The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. Central and Eastern Europe escaped from Soviet clutches. In 1991, the Soviet Union disintegrated. Uighurs believed their hour was at hand. In April 1990, they organized the Barin Uprising, followed by a large scale non-violent demonstration in the Hotan region in 1995. From February 5-7, 1997, Uighurs in Ili region demonstrated peacefully for freedom from Chinese rule. The PRC crushed the demonstration with military force slaying 407 unarmed civilians. Many Uighurs were arrested and sentenced to execution within seven days.

With the witting or unwitting assistance of the United States, Uighur persecution has climbed since the 1997 atrocities. In the aftermath of 9/11 and to elicit the PRC’s non-opposition to invading Iraq, the United States designated the East Turkistan Islamic Party (ETIM), a phantom organization, as a foreign terrorist organization in August 2002. The PRC exulted at the counter-terrorist pretext available to destroy Uighurs and their non-Han Chinese culture. Uighur activists were falsely accused of terrorism and executed. The Uighur language was purged from the classroom and cultural events. At a meeting of the National People’s Congress on January 18, 2008, Mr. Rozi Ismail, head of the Department of Justice in Xinjiang, reported more than one thousand political cases during the previous five years. More than 15,000 Uighurs had been arrested and sentenced to prison for a term of years, for life, or for execution.

Since 2002, the PRC has forcibly relocated young Uighur women. In 2007, the number of relocations surpassed 1.5 million, and approximately 130,000 had been directly relocated to Han Chinese regions, such as Tianjin, Shandong, Jiansu, etc. Of that number, more than 80% were Uighur women. During the last three years, relocations reached 3.3 million, and more than 90,000 were moved directly as cheap labor to factories in Chinese villages and hamlets. At the same time, the PRC dispatched large numbers of Han Chinese in the opposite direction to achieve demographic ethnic cleansing. The United States has remained largely mum to avoid friction with the PRC and jeopardizing its financing of staggering United States debt.

The State Department’s 2007 human rights report on China documents a government campaign of discrimination and persecution of Uighurs and the destruction of their cultural identity by changing the demographics in favor of the Han Chinese in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region (XUAR).

The report relates: “Racial discrimination was the source of deep resentment in some areas, such as the XUAR, Inner Mongolia, and Tibetan areas.

The government’s policy to encourage Han migration into minority areas resulted in significant increases in the population of the Han Chinese in the XUAR.

The migration of the ethnic Han into the XUAR in recent decades caused the Han-Uighur ratio in the capital of Urumqi to shift from 20 to 80 to 80 to 20 and was a deep source of Uighur resentment. Discriminatory hiring practices gave preference to Han and discouraged job prospects for ethnic minorities.

The XUAR government tightened measures that diluted expressions of Uighur identity, including measures to reduce education in ethnic minority languages and to institute language requirements that disadvantage ethnic minority teachers.

Since 2001 authorities have increased repression in the XUAR, targeting in particular the region’s ethnic Uighur population. In January XUAR Party Secretary Wang Lequan again urged government organs to crack down on the ‘three forces’ of religious extremism, ‘splittism,’ and terrorism, and to ‘firmly establish the idea that stability overrides all.’ It was sometimes difficult to determine whether raids, detentions, and judicial punishments directed at individuals or organizations suspected of promoting the ‘three forces,’ were instead actually used to target those peacefully seeking to express their political or religious views. The government continued to repress Uighurs expressing peaceful political dissent and independent Muslim religious leaders, sometimes citing counterterrorism as the reason for taking action.

Uighurs were sentenced to long prison terms, and in some cases executed, on charges of separatism. On February 8, authorities executed Ismail Semed, an ethnic Uighur from the XUAR, following convictions in 2005 for ‘attempting to split the motherland’ and other counts related to possession of firearms and explosives. During his trial, Semed claimed that his confession was coerced…On April 19, foreign citizen Huseyin Celil was sentenced to life in prison for allegedly plotting to split the country and 10 years in prison for belonging to a terrorist organization, reportedly after being extradited from Uzbekistan and tortured into giving a confession…During the year the government reportedly sought the repatriation of Uighurs living outside the country, where they faced the risk of persecution.

Possession of publications or audiovisual materials discussing independence or other sensitive subjects was not permitted. According to reports, possession of such materials resulted in lengthy prison sentences.”

In sum, Uighurs in the XUAR are denied every human right protected by the United States Constitution, including self-government, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, freedom of press, due process, protection against invidious discrimination, ex post facto laws, torture and arbitrary detention.
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The Government of China alleges that many Uighurs are part of ETIM, which was listed by the Secretary of State under Executive Order 13224 on September 3, 2002. Whether such a group constitutes a genuine terrorist organization is doubtful. A story in The Washington Post (December 5, 2006, A13), reported that then-Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage met with Chinese officials in Beijing in late August 2002 to discuss Iraq. He said at the time that ETIM was placed on the foreign terrorist list by President Bush after months of discussions with China, while making clear that China should respect the human rights of its minority Uighur population.

“They had been after us to put ETIM on the list,” Armitage said in a recent interview. He said the decision did not have anything to do with winning China’s tacit approval with the Iraq invasion. “But at the time, we didn’t know when we were going to invade Iraq. It was done in response to information gathered by the intelligence group.”
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BEFORE THE HOUSE INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE - June 16, 2009

SwamyG
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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby SwamyG » 08 Jul 2009 23:54

Prem wrote: It will all depend on India 's capacity and will to remove their neck sharply and smothly , both absent in GOI's thinking . Right now Talibani, Pakibani, Uigherstani and Han Chinese are on each other's throat and this Must continue for few more years, no less no more. Support and help each and every one from time to time in singing "aaoo kill karre "


We should not get involved if we do not have the agenda or ability to see it through the end game. For all the primitive or tribalism that those entities display it will not take long for some of them to join forces against us; or Ukstan or Unkil to divert their attention towards us. It is very simple if we help somebody fight or start a fight, then we be prepared to go all the way. There is going to be no convenient point where we just jump of the bandwagon and say 'ta ta'. It has to be sustained well thought out plan.

Somebody else is stoking the fire now. It could be Unkil or even China itself.

Akhand Bharat will have to take the back seat for now.
Last edited by SwamyG on 09 Jul 2009 02:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby rsingh » 09 Jul 2009 01:29

Uygher blogs.........

http://memettohti.blogspot.com/
http://uyghur.tv/uyghur/uyghur-blog/

Image

http://uyguristan.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html


BTW I think people who play with words and try to portray rosey picture of Uyghurs in China must read more. Get more facts and then talk. There was not a single han there not long ago and now Uyghers are minority in their own land. Those pseudo-intellectuals who beat drums great power and who are impressed by shiny city center should look at living condition of Uyghers. Those who are trying to find analogy with Kashmir forgot to notice that India is not stuffing Kashmir with Biharis and Bengalis. Other Indians do not have right to buy land........suck on that. Yes it is none of our business to interfare and we should wait. Sorry for guys who were dying to be freelance propagan** for PRC.........wait for other day.
Last edited by rsingh on 09 Jul 2009 01:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby vsudhir » 09 Jul 2009 01:50

Chinese troops flood streets after riots

The attached pic looks straight outta a cheeni movie..... imperial troops assemble in the citadel of the forbidden city...scary onlee

Image

Attached caption:
Chinese security forces gather in a square in Urumqi, western China's Xinjiang province, Wednesday, July 8, 2009. China's president cut short a G8 summit trip to rush home Wednesday after ethnic tensions soared in Xinjiang territory, and the government flooded the area with security forces in a bid to quell emotions in the wake of a massive riot that left at least 156 dead.(AP Photo/Eugene Hoshiko)

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jul 2009 01:53

Anujan:

This saga may in fact show the utter "efficiency" of the Rizald all too depressingly- and show the total futility of anyone to even conduct a peaceful, law-abiding protest, WAVING THE CHINESE FLAG (as the students in Urumqi did), demanding justice against those who killed Uighur workers. The Chinese responded by running their famed tanks over those students, and arresting the survivors, torturing most to death and transporting the rest to hard labor in PLA-run factories - just as they have shipped millions of young Uighur women to be slaves in the PLA-run factories.

Consider: Rioting occurs in Urumqi, 600,000,000 miles from Beijing on Sunday. By Tuesday, 20,000 bottles of bai jiu, each borne by an individual armed, shielded Courier, reach Urumqi, and the splittist criminals are all on the way to the Gobi Le-Education Centel in Outer Mongolia. Compare that to the waffling and hemming and hawing by weak, indecisive Capitarist Papel Tigels and their Lound-Eyed Lunning Dogs in places that shall remain unnamed.

All that this shows is the utter uselessness of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan etc. in defending the honor of Islam and the Central Asian people against these greedy materialistic, atheist Communist mongol Han savages. I must say that I am totally disgusted by their silent acquiescence to such an assault on the Honor and Dignity of Allah-fearing, peaceful, hard-working and proud people. The rulers of these nations must go. KHILAFAT ZINDABAD! DOWN WITH THE CORRUPT RULERS OF PAKISTAN, SAUDIA AND IRAN! ALLAHO AKBAR!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Anujan » 09 Jul 2009 02:27

N^3

Three things. The first is what we cannot learn from the Cheenis and where they are heading. This cheeni efficiency is a myth. The scale of the problem that the cheenis are facing is nothing when compared to the scale that we are facing. How many pious Uighurs ? 20 million ? That is just half of a leap forward. Surely the Hans would be disappointed that there is no leap forward or cultural revolution for the Uighurs. How many pious in cashmere and how many more pious in the rest of India capable of violent protests if we practice trench crossing with every man who shouts Azaadi ! in cashmere ? There is something to be said for ruthless efficiency, but current cheeni ruthless efficiency is limited to efficiently manufacturing socks using migrants and driving tanks over minorities who are about 1% of the population. Ofcourse you also shoot the WKKs and lock up every reporter who sneezes in the general direction of Xinjiang. This regime, if it is to be challenged seriously, should be challenged by the Han. That is not happening any time soon, as long as the Han are fed (with enough food for the belly and the "correct education" for the mind)

The second thing is the importance and attention we pay to various "important people" from Mandela to the Pope requesting for "religious freedom in India" and protesting against "evils of the caste system". Add to that Amnesty international's report being seriously taken by the DDM. Reply with a report which shows dereliction of duty by various organizations and their ineffectiveness when commies are involved in slaughter. Quit trying to please the goras and impress them with our efforts at freedoms. We are talking different scales here. What was the biggest crime by the yindoos so far ? Babri ? Gujrat massacres ? They are laughable when compared to what is happening in Tibet and Xinjiang. The caste system ? Give me a break. We are trying to compare re-education camps with reservation in education.

The third thing is what we can benefit from the cheenis. This whole ummah brotherhood sticking by each other through thick and thin till the mahdi arrives, is a myth. The ummah is composed of the programmed sheeples and corrupt rulers. The corrupt rules have correctly programmed the sheeples. I have trawled the web for one Paki forum or reporter saying something resembling a measured outrage against what is happening in Xinjiang. All I found is a sinister hint of a conspiracy by RAW in collaboration with CIA and Mossad to piss on the deep ocean of friendship between the Pakis and Cheenis. We need to deprogram the sheeples to show equal consideration for the ummah brothers everywhere in the world and get upset at the rulers for a change. I stand shoulder to shoulder with you when I shout KHILAFAT ZINDABAD! DOWN WITH THE CORRUPT RULERS OF PAKISTAN, SAUDIA AND IRAN! ALLAHO AKBAR! We need to bribe/threaten/cultivate the rulers to shut the f up about cashmere just like nobody including the guardian of the two holy cities are making any noise. (Neither have I seen them make *any* noise *ever* about any other -stans or Xinjiang on which the russies and cheenis practiced trench crossing)

We should stop being apologetic. Dealing with the OIC first would be a good start.

Edit: As I was writing this post, arguing for what we cannot learn and what we should learn from our lizard cousins, I had a aha ! moment. Cheenis are my dad and Indians are my mom.

Cheeni philosophy of bringing up the kid is to not to spare the rod. The entire cheeni apparatus is set up for population control. By moving them around, driving tanks over them, shooting them, putting them to work, shutting up the reporters who can give them some semblance of critical thinking and educating them in the correct way to love the party and the country. All this economic growth and desire Arunachal Pradesh are just side effects of sweat shops or desired to draw the boundary far enough so that the population looking out doesnt see haraam sights.

Desi philosophy towards bringing up the kid is the bribe them to submission. Give free electricity to the farmers, increase reservations, let pious deny alimony, let the WKKs make some noise, ban some books that offends sensibilities.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby SwamyG » 09 Jul 2009 02:58

Anujan wrote:We need to deprogram the sheeples to show equal consideration for the ummah brothers everywhere in the world and get upset at the rulers for a change.

And where is that going to lead? Myth or not, it makes sense to keep the different versions and strains of Taliban from aiding each other. Now why would we want the "peaceful birathers" to make noise for their "peaceful birathers" in a different land?

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Anujan » 09 Jul 2009 03:15

SwamyG wrote:And where is that going to lead? Myth or not, it makes sense to keep the different versions and strains of Taliban from aiding each other. Now why would we want the "peaceful birathers" to make noise for their "peaceful birathers" in a different land?


SwamyG-saar - This is getting OT in this dhaaga
Let me clarify what I meant. I did not mean a Afghan-mujahideen type express of support for peaceful birathers.

The war will be won only if we intimidate the elite through violence and coercion and re-educate the droids into some semblance of reasonableness. The trick is to let them slaughter each other during the transition period as the pass through the shock of de-programming.

The re-education will start when the droids start questioning why the elite are not supporting parts of the Ummah. The elites then, lovingly, through tanks and guns will explain to the droids the imperatives of statehood, economy and international diplomacy.

The first step is is going on in FATA with the pious wanting to declare shararat and the paki army gently explaining the relationship between GDP and the number of predators that fly around. And presto, within a week we have reports that 99.9999% of Pakis (more than those who voted in favor of our jernail in the referendum) agreeing to put 2 million in tents, shoot a few with beards and call them terrorists while all the while going around the world with a bowl in hand.

Now we are at step 2 - to gently educate that showing solidarity with ummah outside the borders is haraam too. Let them show solidarity with Uighurs. Let the paki army then gently explain the imperatives of international diplomacy with cheeni-made Al-tin-dabbas.

Then we might go to step 3. The realization dawning upon some about what it means to run a country.

I heard a feeble noise that not even the Kuffars did in cashmere what the Paki army did in Swat. I am trying to get someone to make a loud noise that not even the Kuffars did in cashmere what the cheenis did in Xinjiang. Then I will wait for a still louder noise of a cheeni made AK going off in the general direction of the guy who made the noises. And then we will have interesting times.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby ramana » 09 Jul 2009 03:27

The Telegraph Kolkota in its article about Hu returning to PRC says, Indian diplomats think the situation is very bad that Hu had to return. It means the PM was ineffective. So expect a lot of fallout.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby RayC » 09 Jul 2009 12:11

Opportunity knocks on the door, but once!

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Philip » 09 Jul 2009 16:37

The PRC is a giant balloon which one day will go bust.An autocratic regime which is underpinned by military brutality cannot forever be toplerated by the people.The similarities between the ethnic cleansing in Tibet and E.Turkestan shows the attempts of the PRC to establish puppet control over its peripheral states and its limitations too.China's economy is bound to slow down and the cracks in the states' edifice will grown wider until the state totally changes track and ushers in true democracy.

Like the unknown man with a bag who faced the PLA tanks at Tianmen-Square,the lone Ugihur woman,Tursun Gul ,facing off the armed Chinese police has become the symbol of Uighur defiance internationally.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 666787.ece

Tursun Gul, symbol of Uighur defiance: I just want my husband back

(Diego Azubel/EPA)
"I told the police that we wanted freedom and a peaceful life. Just let my five men go", said Tarsun Gul
Image :1 of 2

Jane Macartney in Urumqi
It was an act of bravery and defiance that was spread around the world at lightning speed by journalists visiting the riot zone: the lone woman hobbling on her crutch towards ranks of paramilitary police, their armoured vehicles retreating as she approached, shaking her fist.

In her tiny basement home in a filthy, crowded tenement yesterday, the mother of two wiped away a tear with the brown and cream headscarf that she was wearing when she faced down China’s security forces.

All she wanted, she told The Times, was the return of her husband and four brothers, who had been rounded up by the authorities and taken away to a detention centre.

“I just hope that he will behave well. He has a heart problem and I worry about him,” Tursun Gul, 30, said.

Uighurs’ cry echoes round the world
Chinese troops flood into riot city
Angry protester confronts China’s armed police

PICTURES: China unrest
Archive blog: Peter Fleming's journey into Xinjiang
Her husband, she insists, did not join the thousands of Uighur men who rampaged through the regional capital in what the Government calls the deadliest riots in 60 years of Communist rule. She claims that the building site labourer spent the whole day at home on Monday, only going out to buy vegetables for dinner, as Uighur men set fire to hundreds of cars across the street where they live.

When the police arrived at the scene they ordered everyone into their homes. Li Zhi, the city’s party secretary, said that police moved in after reports of about 100 Uighurs roaming the district with wooden staves, bent on attacking local committee officials.

Many men hid in their houses; some were pulled out from under their beds during a police search. Tursun Gul described how police entered the crowded, slum-like courtyards and ordered the men out. They checked their identity cards. Many were taken out on to the main road, ordered to strip to their underpants and told to lie face down on the ground with their hands behind their heads.

Once all suspects had been detained, they were loaded into trucks and driven off. She has not seen her husband since. Her showdown with the police was a desperate attempt to track him down.

As she stood alone, shaking her fist at the ranks of armed police, Tursun Gul says that she was not afraid. “I thought if they beat me or killed me there were more people behind me who would take my place. I told the police that we wanted freedom and a peaceful life. Just let my five men go.”

On the surface, her action is reminiscent of the man who stopped a column of tanks as troops crushed student protests in Tiananmen Square in 1989. But she — like most Chinese — has never heard of the Tiananmen incident and simply wants her husband back.

Early in the morning she had gone to the police to beg for the return of her husband, Maimaiti, 33. They ignored her and she fainted from rage. An hour later she joined a group of about 300 women who rushed into the street to plead their cause when they saw foreign journalists arriving on a government-organised tour to areas damaged in the riots.

Police arrived and pushed back the women as they screamed for the release of their menfolk.

“The others were all surrounded by police but somehow I slipped through. I found myself alone and just walked towards the police,” Tursun Gul said.

She limped forward, leaning on a crutch and dragging her left leg (she was crippled in a school sports accident when she was 12). She pushed her two index fingers together: “I was as close to them as that.” She remembers shouting: “I don’t want to live. I just want to be free and to have my husband.”

In a breathtaking moment, instead of advancing, the armoured personnel carriers started to back away from their solitary challenger as she shouted and gesticulated. “Do we have law in the country? Do you want to give us a peaceful life or not?”

She said that the fact that she was a woman probably determined the response by the People’s Armed Police, who appear to be under strict orders to exercise the utmost restraint. “I think they felt sympathy for me.”

A senior Uighur officer approached her and tried to calm her, giving her his telephone number.

“He told me to trust them, to trust the Communist Party and everything would be all right.” She left and tried to call him later but there was no answer.

She hopes that the riot will not lead to deeper divisions in her city.

“The Han don’t hate the Uighurs and the Uighurs don’t hate the Han,” she said. “I have sympathy for the Han people who were killed. We need to have ethnic unity.”

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Rishirishi » 09 Jul 2009 18:08

India should milk the conflict for what it is worth. Play TSP/Taleban/Muslim fanatics against China. India should sternly side with China.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Philip » 09 Jul 2009 18:44

"190 buses destroyed".A virtual war seems to have taken place!
Meanwhile the Uighars are fleeing Urumqui to Kashgar,where they are in the majority from this report.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ju ... nce-urumqi

Fear of further mob violence prompts Uighurs to leave UrumqiThreat of future trouble hangs over tentative calm following bloody riots in Chinese city

Tania Branigan in Urumqi
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 9 July 2009 12.08 BST

Firemen on the streets of Urumqi after ethnic violence in the city. Photograph: Xinhua/Reuters
Hundreds of Uighurs left the capital of China's north-western Xinjiang region today in fear of further violence after days of inter-ethnic conflict.

Life appeared to be returning to normal in Urumqi today, albeit tentatively, with businesses in the heart of the city reopening for the first time since unrest began on Sunday night.

But the south bus station on Xinhua South Road – in a predominantly Uighur area of town – was packed with students and families scrabbling for tickets to other parts of the region.

Urumqi's population is predominantly Han Chinese, while in other towns such as Kashgar, in the south of Xinjiang, Uighurs make up as much as 90% of the population.

At one point police had to intervene as the crush in the ticket hall got out of hand.

"We are going because we are all scared. We don't have any alternative," said a young mother waiting with her seven-year-old son as her husband fought his way through the crowd. They were not yet sure what work they would find in their home town.

A student from Kashgar said: "I'm afraid. [There's] so much violence - Chinese people and Uighur people just fighting.

"I want to go back to my home. My parents are also afraid for me."

Chinese media reported yesterday that passengers were also crowding Urumqi airport and camping out in nearby hotels until they could buy a ticket. "We fear Xinjiang is not safe anymore," one told China Daily.

At least 156 people died and more than 1,000 were injured in violence in Urumqi on Sunday night, the authorities have said. Witnesses reported brutal attacks by Uighurs on Han Chinese, but the authorities have yet to disclose the identities or ethnicities of the victims.

On Tuesday, a Han mob took to the streets armed with meat cleavers, shovels and other weapons and headed for a Uighur area in search of revenge, trashing stores and throwing rocks at a mosque. Paramilitary and riot police eventually dispersed them with teargas. Officials have not offered casualty numbers for that day.

Several students at the bus station said they were going home because the university ended the academic year two weeks early following the unrest, but that they expected to return in the autumn. They were kept on campus until this morning.

Many other travellers said they did not know if or when they would return to Urumqi.

"It's not safe now. When it's stable I hope I can come back," said a man who had come to work in the computer trade, but was now returning to his home town of Yili, in southern Xinjiang.

The authorities posted up signs around the station and elsewhere in the city calling for the rioters to surrender themselves. The notices, in both Chinese and Uighur, said those who hid or protected criminals would also be punished.

Around 1,400 people have already been arrested and officials have pledged to execute those who resorted to "cruel means".

A meeting of the country's top leaders last night was told that stability in the region was the "most important and pressing task", according to a statement issued today. It was convened by President Hu Jintao, who cut short a trip to Italy for the G8 summit due to the violence.

Many Han also remained frightened following the violence. Shi Guanzheng, a retired teacher originally from Shanghai, told Reuters he did not dare venture too far. "Now both sides are so filled with emotion that the repercussions will last a long time," he said.

"I'm scared about what will happen when the People's Armed Police have to leave. It's not about tomorrow or the next day. It's about next month or after. What then?"

There is still a huge security presence in the city and forces mounted another strength this afternoon with hundreds marching through the streets of the capital. However, the atmosphere was generally calmer, and in many areas Swat teams and paramilitary groups, though armed, were chatting and resting in the shade rather than standing on alert.

Vegetable stalls were bustling with trade as shoppers stocked up after days without an opportunity to buy food. Some people said they had not dared to leave their houses.

Buses could be seen on the streets again, although around 190 of them were destroyed by rioters on Sunday night.

A government notice issued to the foreign media this afternoon said: "Till now, the '7.5 [July 5] Beating, Smashing, Grabbing and Firing Severe Violent Criminal Event' has been under effective control. The normal social order, production and people's life have been restored and all the following-up measures have been conducted systematically."

It promised that press officials would continue to help journalists cover events, but added: "For your convenience and safety, the press centre would like to remind all the reporters that please follow the related Chinese regulations and rules voluntarily during your interview, do not conduct any activities contradicted to your professionalism. Especially, do not agitate the ethnic animosity and provoke the ethnic relationships with improper questions."


From the same reporter,how the Hans hunt "weegers"!.
China lockdown as decades of suspicion boil over.

Excerpt:
It was too quiet. At two o'clock on another hot, dry afternoon they strolled up towards the People's Square. Some were in smart shirts and ties, others in jeans and trainers. In their hands were iron bars, knives, staves of wood, metal chains and nunchuks, golf clubs and meat cleavers, lengths of piping, shovels and axes.

Little by little the numbers swelled, almost imperceptibly. Within half an hour there were hundreds of Han Chinese on the streets of Urumqi – then thousands. At first the talk was of self-defence. Then it turned to vengeance. A respectable-looking middle-aged woman carried a plank with a nail poking from it; a younger woman in a colourful top and white diamante mules clutched a metal pipe. A father, passing with his family, held his young son with one hand and a length of wood with the other.

Then, a roar in the distance. They walked, then ran, toward the Uighur part of town, where many would smash up stores and threaten residents. It would take round after round of teargas and thousands of riot and paramilitary police to disperse them....


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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby sanjaykumar » 09 Jul 2009 21:22

Still no evidence of coordination between Uyghurs and Tibetans, a move that will mean major domestic and international difficulties for China.


And still no mention of Turkestan in Pakistan's Dawn, brotherly Muslims extend only to Palestine and India. Some Muslims are more brotherly than others. Is this the vaunted freedom of the Pakistani press? Disgusting.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby ramana » 09 Jul 2009 21:51

Analysis from Night watch 8 July 2009


Comment. All is obviously not “harmonious” in the central kingdom. Harmony remains a surprisingly still powerful Confucian political and Daoist philosophical concept of government by the communists. The word harmony in English translation does not come close to capturing its meaning through several thousand years of Chinese political culture. Analysts should interpret official use of this word and its adjectives as a sign of cultural retrenchment. In Chinese history, society is harmonious when the wishes of the Emperor are understood and obeyed.


For new analysts: The Urumqi riots are a text book case study of the early phase of internal breakdown and crisis management. The first principle is that the established forces of law and order always must fail before the national government recognizes the gravity of the problem and responds. This is a nearly universal rule of crisis management.

Every living system exists in a state of dynamic tension with its neighbors and its components. This includes Uighur and Han Chinese populations in Urumqi in Xinjiang Province, for example. The primary problem solving task in living systems is to satisfy the needs and wants of its components in order to sustain life.

This task always involves stress because the needs and wants of all components can never be satisfied. Resources are always limited and their allocation must be balanced. Balancing in biological systems creates stress. Every living system evolves and possesses mechanisms for coping with the normal range of stresses in the system.

Thus, some demands of the Uighurs for greater political participation can be satisfied because they fall within the normal range for stress. But not their basic demand for an end to the 60-year long Han Chinese invasion of Xinjiang, for example. The Han Chinese demand for security from the Uighurs and propensity to take revenge is another matter. That falls far outside the normal range of stress responses for which the Han Chinese police are prepared to cope. Bashing Uighur heads is predictable. A counter uprising by Han Chinese is overwhelming and something to be encouraged and joined.

The stress between the two dominant ethnic groups in Urumqi is always close to erupting in limited violence or other forms of lawlessness, but the central authorities maintain sufficient local police and paramilitary police to keep the peace most of the time for the historically predictable range of flashpoints.

All governments attempt to solve stress problems at the lowest, most efficient cost, thus all will be prone to let the local forces do what they are paid to do, keep stress under control. There is no reliable way to tell whether a specific outbreak of lawlessness will exceed the capabilities of the normal stress control mechanisms, or is just letting off steam, pent up tension.

Most governments will decline to respond to the first signs of local disorder with an expensive overwhelming response because it might be overkill and unnecessary and make them appear foolish and scared. Thus the basic rule of prediction is that governments that are not despotic must allow the local forces try. If they succeed, huge costs are unnecessary. If they fail, the government knows what it must do next … escalate.

Now this phenomenology is not the same as being caught by surprise. It is just the way crisis management works in living systems. It is, for example, the same phenomenological and systemic response by any biological system to an internal disorder. If the normal stress control mechanisms fail, peripheral and non-essential systems will start to shut down as the system shunts resources to the afflicted component to first limit damage, then stabilize the afflicted sub-system and finally restore it in a new normal state or condition.

This process is identical that followed by police in the US, such as the Los Angeles police response to rioting in Watts for six days in August 1965. No Governor will call in the national guard unless and until the police are overwhelmed. To do so unnecessarily would brand him as alarmist and be reflected in the next election. Thus, governments have no choice but to wait and see whether the police are capable of solving the problem at the lowest cost, before calling in the guard or the Peoples Armed Police, which is a high cost measure in dollars, yuan, and political capital.

The Chinese leadership was not caught by surprise, necessarily. They are hardly fools in managing a nation of over a billion people and understand well the explosive activism of the Uighurs. They are bound by the iron rules of instability and crisis management problem solving in a living system. The Uighur problem is now literally under control. Not solved, but under control.

Autocratic states and despotisms, as in North Korea, make a practice of always overreacting to unrest as a fail-safe, prophylactic crisis management response that ensures regime survival. They disregard the costs in favor of surety. The Chinese leaders are showing they are more tolerant of protests than Kim Chong il, in North Korea, but not much more.

The Uighur unrest poses no threat to the central government, but the Han Chinese counter-riots pose a serious threat to the survival of the Urumqi Uighurs and a serious source of incitement for other Han to take law into their own hands in the 14 or 15 other regions of China where non-Han minorities mix with the Han. To its credit, the central government has acted to protect the Uighurs from the Han, but three days late.

A lesson to young China watchers is the Han Chinese appear much more docile than history shows they are. Chong guo is translated as central kingdom, but its historic sense is that the Han Chinese are the ethnically, culturally and morally superior center of the world. Minorities on the fringe, including Westerners, are culturally defined as inferiors.


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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Prem » 09 Jul 2009 22:48

Just curious if Chicom were planning any oil or gas Pipeline from Kazahkhastan to Mainland with which Uighurstanis can do Balochistan on it?

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby VikramS » 09 Jul 2009 22:52

N^3

I am not sure I agree with the Uighur == Islamist hypothesis. Can you elaborate more on why you see the Uighur as another Pakiban? The Uighur are comfortable with who they are, and do not have the "Pakiban != India" as their raisin-dieter. More so the Uighur are not getting an iota of support from the ummah-brethen. The Saudis have been unusually quiet, as have been the Pakibans. In the absence of any mullah-moolah, how does the Islamization take root? Isn't the Uighur cultural identity good enough to supplement the fear of the Han-Borg, to preclude the need for Islamism as the central unifying force?

Or is your uvacha based on historic life-style, which led to the construction of the Great Wall?

I also disagree that encouraging self-determination in the colonies of China is going to bite back India. Whether a separatist movement succeeds or fails is not based on who was able to secede but how effective the current ruling power is in managing the separatists. The Americans can help the cause of self-determination all over the world, but Texas ain't becoming a part of Mexico for a long time to come.


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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby VikramS » 09 Jul 2009 23:00

Another thing to keep in mind that the entire 'Uighur rape Han' story may have been planted to get rid of the migrant Uighur workers. The export based economy is under serious pressure and millions of jobs are being lost. In such an environment the Uighur migrant worker is an easy target. Scare them enough to force them to leave main China, and the jobs are more secure for the Hans.

Another aspect to keep in mind is that the CCP will always be wary of the Uighur. If you visit the WSJ forums, you will find that the Chinese have a very negative opinion of the Uighurs (thugs and rapists who are above the law). This entire drama might be staged to build support of a massive purge of the Uighur nationalists. Further the Han Borg may not like the idea of thousands of Uighur roaming in the heartland of China. They will never trust them and will see them as a potential fifth column in their heartland.

Right now China is in the driver's seat when it comes to the Western world. They might use this opportunity to get rid of pesky irritants and tighten their control over the occupied territories.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby Paul » 09 Jul 2009 23:40

I was listening to NPR this morning while driving to work. The reason the Hans are out in the streets fighting the Uighurs is that in Urumichi and even rural areas they have managed to subvert the demographic majority of the Uighurs.

In Tibet, except for Lhasa the Hans have not settled down as the terrain is not hospitable to settled occupations. The mob violence we are seeing in Xinjiang cannot happen in Tibet. Something to keep in mind when we start spreading our wings in the Tibetian plateau.

For all those advocating weakening PRC in Xinjiang, need to realize that if this happens, the beneficiary will not be India but AQ and the IMU. They will get another base like Afghania and Pak to launch their activities into Russia, Uzbekistan, PRC, and India.

A wet dream for the anglo-saxons…..

PRC hold should be sufficiently weakened but not break down. Tibet should be India’s first priority. The people here are part and parcel of Indian civilization and we can hold plateau. Indian public opinion will support it.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby vsudhir » 09 Jul 2009 23:44

The WSJ (or was it the NYT?) story coyly mentions that a protesting 13-yr-old Uighur girl was agitating for the return of her 19-yr-old brother who was arrested.

And I was like, brother? really? So the 1-child law doesn't apply to uighurs or what? turns out it doesn't. They're allowed 2 kids. Another reason for the han to get worked up, apparently.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 09 Jul 2009 23:48

Isn't the Uighur cultural identity good enough to supplement the fear of the Han-Borg, to preclude the need for Islamism as the central unifying force?


The first thing to die in any violent rebellion is the sensible, productive and peaceful middle class - the ones who actually have some cultural identity. They will be hunted down by the Authorities, and then they will be reduced to "IDPs" as the conflict intensifies, and they are the ones least adapted to survive in a refugee environment.

This will create the vacuum between the ears, that is the ideal environment for the Pakibani virus to take over.

Recent History:
1. Chechnya - those people were not really extreme Islamists. Now characterized by the Black Sistahs and torture-murders and rubble and IDPs
2. Afghanistan - those people were pretty modern and liberal as recently as 1975.
3. Iran - also pretty modern. Now ruled by the Ayatollahs
4. Lebanon
Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan are kept just below boil because of uber-brutal dictators sitting on the lid. And it is this that keeps Talibanism out of Xinjiang.

If there were a coup in Kazakhstan and/or Uzbekistan, the others would fall very quickly, and then there would be free flow of weapons and "soosai vests" into Xinjiang, accompanied by Chinese "response" - and the Middle Class would get swiftly wiped out.

Then the remainder would be the Herrows with the AK-47s, so admired by the Pakis.

So the question is not whether Uighur== Islamist (probably not at all true today) but whether a rebellion against the Lizard Empire would not end with ProtoPakistan being created. Actually it would be
Pakistan
Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Iran
Xinjiang
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Afghanista
N

I am not at all against highlighting the Tolerance and Freedom in the People's Paradise, but wishing for Independent Uighuristan is a baaaaad idea.

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby SwamyG » 09 Jul 2009 23:53

Chinese-Indonesians call on Muslim nations to help Uighur
The Indonesian Chinese Muslim Association (PITI) has criticized China’s brutality against the Uighur Muslim minority, and regretted the silence of Muslim nations regarding the group’s decades of suffering discrimination and persecution.

“The Chinese Muslims are on the periphery [of the Muslim world]. They have long been persecuted, but they are neglected,” PITI spokesman Steven Indra Wijaya {The last two are Hindu sounding, the first part is Christian and he is a Muslim?} told The Jakarta Post.

“We are calling on all Muslims to cast aside their [ethnic] identities and help the Uighurs.”

More than 150 people were killed in the recent rioting and ethnic clashes involving Han Chinese and Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang province. The riots broke out after thousands of Uighurs rallied to protest the killing of two fellow Uighurs at a factory in Guangdong.

Tifatul Sembiring, chairman of the Muslim-based Prosperous Justice Party (PKS), condemned the violence.

“As part of an international community, China has to stop all actions that lead to rights violations.,” he said.

“China can no longer act arbitrarily against its people who happen to embrace different faiths … [We] demand the Chinese government take action against those responsible for the killing.”

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby ramana » 10 Jul 2009 00:16

Re-posted from page 2 to remind what should be Indian interest.
--------------
RajeshA, To affirm your point of view about the need to roll back Han to core China x-post.....

Suraj wrote:As an example of the historical attitudes to China, from nearby Vietnam - at the end of WW2, when the Japanese left Vietnam, essentially leaving Chaing Kai-Shek's Kuomintang in charge, the Vietminh under Ho Chi Minh instead negotiated for a return of the French (who had been defeated earlier by the Japanese) to Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh's explanation to his Vietminh, castigating them for the initial welcoming treatment to the KMT forces, and his preference for French rule was:
Ho Chi Minh wrote:Don't you realize what it means if the Chinese stay ? Don't you remember your history ? The last time the Chinese came, they stayed one thousand years. The French are foreigners. They are weak. Colonialism is dying out. Nothing will be able to withstand world pressure for independence. They may stay for a while, but they will have to go, because the white man is finished in Asia. But if the Chinese stay now, they will never leave. As for me, I prefer to smell French shit for five years, rather than Chinese shit for the rest of my life.


The French returned to Vietnam in 1945-46, hoping to quickly defeat the Vietminh nationalists. However, after years of internecine conflict, they were comprehensively defeated by Vo Nguyen Giap's forces at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, and withdrew from Vietnam.

Quote source:
Google books: War and Revolution in Vietnam: 1930-75


What we are seeing is roll back of colonialism and Western presence in Central Asia. The Chinese rolled into East Turkestan to preclude Tsarist Russian advance in the 18th century. We dont know if there was English hand in that.
------------------------

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Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby enqyoob » 10 Jul 2009 00:24

Paul: Did u hear the Professor from the People's Republic of Columbia University saying how great the Lizards are for "bringing foreign reporters in to see the riot effects immediately" He was citing this as the huge advancement in Commie "thinking" from what was done in Tibet last year.

Of course, what happened is that the Rizalds wanted the papparazzi to see the damage done by the Splittists, but what the papparazzi saw was the tanks rolling over the peaceful protestors and the Han mobs out on rampage against minorities.

Also, re: the One Child Policy - did u read that the Splittist Instigator sitting in DC is about 60 years old (so around 20 in 1970 when they put in this "Iklauta Beta" rule) and has ELEVEN children?

Perhaps this will give an inkling of the level of control and intrusion that the Party in Beijing has been actually imposing on the Uighurs. Perhaps this will also explain why they decided that a rapid infusion of Hans is the best way to integrate Xinjiang into the 21st century, and the quicker the better because it leaves less time for the Talibanisation to fester.

So this Mohterma started out doing laundry, and built up an empire selling everything. The Party, all due credit to them recognized that terrific talent for Selling Rope To Capitalists that characterizes the Brightest and Most Equal, and sent her zooming to the highest levels of the Politburo deliberations in Beijing.

And after all that, all they got was that she loudly denounced the Party for Oppressing the Believers, and then she was caught passing "newspaper cuttings" (your guess is as good as mine as to what was actually transacted) to visiting Capitarist Impeliarist Lunning Dog American Congressppl in Urumqui.

Ten years of hard "Le-Education" was the sentence, commuted in 2005 - and voila! she surfaces in a "tiny office", ACROSS FROM THE WHITE HOUSE in DupleeCity.

So, depending on one's perspective, this proves either that
(a) Put a dog's tail in a tube for 12 years, it still comes out crooked
or
(b) Feed a snake, it still bites your hand. Uighurs don't understand anything other than massive force.
or
(c) Despite all the corrupting influences of the evil Communists and the worst tortures they could inflict on her, this brave Mother of Eleven continues today to speak out for her Oppressed Community.

I think I believe all 3 of those, that's my problem.

Now compare with J&K and Article 370 nonsense, and why the "Kashmir Problem" continues to fester - and why Indian citizens in the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir enjoy none of the Fundamental Rights (like freedom of association, freedom to go live anywhere in the Union, freedom to decide what to wear and to go out in public, not to mention right to purchase property), despite India claiming to be a great Free Democracy. Maybe the rulers of China take their responsibilities a lot more seriously than the rulers of India?

Maybe the best thing that the GOI can do today is to shut up about Xinjiang (as opposed to Tibet) and point out that it is an Internal Matter of PRC.

svinayak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14223
Joined: 09 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Understanding the Uighur Movement-1

Postby svinayak » 10 Jul 2009 01:00

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =106379234

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =105393174

http://www-cdn.npr.org/templates/story/ ... =106415882

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =106415885

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =106376623

Morning Edition, July 9, 2009 · China is trying to maintain stability in the western region of the country, after deadly riots killed 165 people. Robbie Barnett, a professor of modern Tibetan studies at Columbia University, says the government handled this unrest differently than it did with last year's crackdown in Tibet. He tells Renee Montagne that Tibet was locked down, while journalists were taken to Urumqi to see the damage for themselves.


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