Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2009 23:40

Nightwatch prespective on IAF chief's comments on force size

9/23/09

India: Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal P. V. Naik said today that the government is doing much to boost the air force's capability because the strength of the air force is "inadequate," Indian Express reported. Naik said he is unaware of any air incursions from China across the Indian border. He added that India has one-third the number of aircraft that China has, which is why the Indian air force must be strengthened.

Sometime between 2006 and 2007, Indian authorities decided that it was politically correct to identify China as the long term enemy of India. Since 2007, if not earlier, the number of op-ed pieces and statements by retired officials about the threat from China began to equal the reassuring statements by the Foreign Ministry that China poses no threat to India. Of course the official statements have always been nonsense for public consumption.

In the past two years, military officers and a few authoritative civilian officials have been in the forefront of indoctrinating the Indian reading and listening public that China is the future enemy. Today’s statement by Air Chief Marshal Naik cites China as the justification for a stronger Indian Air Force, justifiably so.

Indian memories of the Chinese invasion of India in 1962 are long. Indian strategic thinkers and the whole world are well aware of the revelations of Pakistani scientist A.Q. Khan that prove Pakistan would have no nuclear weapons without Chinese assistance.

If any country can block Chinese economic and military imperialism, it must be India, hopefully with US support and partnership. The two great democracies of the world need to keep their strategic vision clear and coordinated. Pakistan is in thrall to China and cannot escape it.


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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby AnimeshP » 25 Sep 2009 02:32

Well ... I guess the Chinese propaganda about AP is catching on ...
Tension builds on Indian and Chinese border as Dalai Lama welcomed to Tawang

A planned visit by the Dalai Lama to one of Tibetan Buddhism's most sacred temples high in the Himalayas is adding fuel to an already tense military standoff between India and China over disputed border territory.

The temple at Tawang is in the Indian-occupied state of Arunachal Pradesh, which China claims to own and which has been the scene of threatening military buildups in recent months by both New Delhi and Beijing.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby ramana » 25 Sep 2009 02:41

I dont know what the Chiese are doing but they sure are egging on the most peaceable government that came to power in India and forcing it to react for its own survival.

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Amb. Sreenivasan defends media's focus on China threat.

Postby Amitava » 25 Sep 2009 07:34

Media under attack
No harm in playing up China threat
by T.P. Sreenivasan (today's OpEd in the Tribune)
From lowly politicians to high-level policymakers and strategists, all have begun to aim their guns at the Indian media, particularly the electronic media, for sensationalising events and not helping the government deal with sensitive matters in its own quiet way.

A writer, who has more than his share of space in the media, laments: “Chinese military unhappy with Indian media.” Is it such a disaster that the Chinese military is unhappy with something in India, having made India unhappy for decades?

In Kerala, the ruling party is uncomfortable with the media, which is accused of parallel investigations, throwing the impartial police investigations, involving the Home Minister himself, out of gear.

It is alleged that young anchors and reporters know nothing about anything and they put out stories without checking sources and backgrounds and without hearing the other side of the story. The media is the villain, which is allegedly causing internal and external turmoil.

Blaming the media is an ancient pastime, but it was easier when reports in the print media could be denied, except when an odd reporter produced an audio tape. But today statements can be replayed at will, making denial a hard option.

The only escape clause is the attribution of motives. Since the ship of state leaks at the top in diverse directions, the media is advised to exercise restraint. If the top brass cannot keep its mouth shut, the media should be shut out.

The latest attack on the media began with the coverage of the 26/11 attacks on Mumbai. The virtual spectacle of evil was there for all to see, but the blame has been put on the media for giving clues to the terrorists and their minders in Pakistan by covering the developments live.

The charge is that the live telecast helped the terrorists to execute their plans. Kasab and company had no time to watch TV and their minders in Pakistan certainly had other sources to tell them what was happening. In such a masterly operation, care would have been taken to station agents to report events to them.

The answer was not to preach to the media, but to ensure that no one was given access to the sites of attack. Here was a situation where people were camping outside the Taj with food vendors having a field day. How would the media miss such an opportunity to bring the story live to the living rooms?

But the knee-jerk reaction was to criticise the media for being unpatriotic and irresponsible. Even a code of conduct was devised for the media. The code of conduct should have been prescribed for the security authorities to restrict access to the area.

Even more amazing is the lament that the media is exaggerating the Chinese threat to India. There are any number of instances of China encircling India with the specific purpose of countering our development and international profile. Pakistan and Myanmar are nothing but pawns in this Chinese strategy.

The Chinese moves to strengthen its claims in Arunachal and Ladakh militarily and politically are there for all to see. The effort to block ADB assistance to an irrigation project in Arunachal Pradesh marked a new beginning in terms of diplomatic pressure. Reports of Chinese incursions are not manufactured in press rooms, but officially given out by the defence authorities. The comments of the retiring Naval Chief about the Chinese threat were not made in jest. How could the media afford not to take note of these developments and reach the appropriate conclusions? It was the External Affairs Minister, who appeared unrealistic when he tried to play down the Chinese military and diplomatic actions against India.

China is fully aware of the nature of the Indian media and no harm was done by the media playing it up and the minister playing it down. The media has the right to inform the public and it is for the government to give the right assessment at the right time.

An incident involving a cargo plane from the UAE was reported by the media. The plane had landed in Kolkata en route to Beijing and the normal requirement of declaring the cargo was not met. A routine inspection revealed that the cargo was lethal weapons. The media is being faulted for reading too much into this incident, which embarrassed the UAE as well as China.

A friendly country sending arms and ammunition to an unfriendly neighbour through India was not without immense news value. There was nothing wrong in the UAE and China being asked to explain what was clearly a breach of international norms in air transport.

The government itself did not give a credible explanation about the incident except to indicate that the arms were being returned to Beijing after a show in the UAE. The information that the two countries have such cooperation is valuable for India. Blacking out such information from the public was not an option to be exercised by the media.

It is the duty of the media to bring to light aberrations in international relations to enable the government to deal with them appropriately. In fact, the media blitz gives the government a good reason to make our friends and foes answerable to their behaviour. As long as stories are not manufactured, these should be welcomed and investigated. To close the eyes of the media or to restrain it is to let a valuable asset to go unutilised.

How hyperactivity of the media helps in international negotiations was demonstrated during the three years of debate on the India-US nuclear deal. Critics of the government got as much media space as the supporters did and the charges made in the media must have helped our negotiators to secure better terms from their US counterparts.

Recently, one of the virulent critics of the nuclear deal confessed that many of his articles were written in the Atomic Energy Commission to keep the heat on. He had stopped writng about it once he was assured that we had got a good deal.

Our print and electronic media are doing a fabulous job in terms of reporting and analysing events. They make mistakes frequently and even mislead the public. But they are legitimate instruments of opinion making and they should not be restricted in any way.

The state should learn to keep its secrets and also step in if there is misinformation. Let us not lose the asset we have in a vibrant media network on the plea that only balanced and accurate stories should be put out.

The writer is a former Ambassador and a member of the National Security Advisory Board, New Delhi

Link: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090924/edit.htm#6

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby RayC » 26 Sep 2009 18:42

The electronic media does go overboard in sensationalising issue with deft use of phrases. One has to only watch Barka Datt, Sardesai and Goswami and realise how they mould the mindset.

Remember the murder case of the Delhi girl and the parents were blamed and defamed? And still there is no answer!!

Or Gaurav Sawant in Indian Today on the Maj Suri case. Totally sensationalised!! And I believe Gaurav Sawant's father was in the Army Education Corps!

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby ramana » 03 Oct 2009 03:09

Can we do a media analysis of which media outfits had what slant to the PRC incrusions story?

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby SwamyG » 03 Oct 2009 04:18

^^^^
Here is something that offers that insight. "The Hindu" carries this piece Media asked not to ‘overplay’ China border incidents. As per the news item:
And, in an indication of how seriously the government is taking the recent scare-mongering, the Union Home Ministry has decided to file an FIR against the two Times of India reporters who filed a story claiming Indian soldiers had been injured in firing by the Chinese.


If one searches google news (yeah yeah I know) for the words "mha fir" or "union ministry fir". You get the Hindu link, one Outlook link and one ToI link.

As expectedely if one searches "The Hindu" for the words "China incursions" all the news items have the slant of it being a not a big deal or not deal.

But we knew how Chindu leaned. No surprises there.

So a hasty non-scientific quick 15 min research using an evil search engine reveals it was a match between GoI and ToI.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby enqyoob » 03 Oct 2009 07:49

There is a school of thought that the "sudden rise of India-China tensions" is hype generated from US circles to scare India into closer military ties with Amir Khan.

Another school that it is a way for desi businesses to deal with increasing Chinese dumping on Indian consumer market - induce boycotts etc.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby Rudradev » 03 Oct 2009 08:05

narayanan wrote:There is a school of thought that the "sudden rise of India-China tensions" is hype generated from US circles to scare India into closer military ties with Amir Khan.
.


Probably not "closer military ties with Amir Khan"... that's not how the wind is blowing. Apparently the latest round of COPE type joint-exercises was abruptly and quietly shelved.

But I'd guess very probably, to scare India's hawks away from notions of a military response to the next Paki terrorist attack... by raising the prospect of a two-front war in that event.

If that is indeed the case, it follows that the more voluble the "India-China tensions" hype becomes, the more imminent the next Paki terrorist attack.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby SwamyG » 04 Oct 2009 21:18

narayanan wrote:There is a school of thought that the "sudden rise of India-China tensions" is hype generated from US circles to scare India into closer military ties with Amir Khan.

Another school that it is a way for desi businesses to deal with increasing Chinese dumping on Indian consumer market - induce boycotts etc.

There are several implications (probably nothing new): As per the 1st school of thought then, the Indian media is in hand with US circles. As per the 2nd school of thought then the Indian media is in hand with Indian business.

In either case, the Indian media does not come out as a nationalistic body. In spite of all the bad press American media gave Bush, even the liberal media toed the line of "American interests first". "The Hindu" is a Chinese paper for all editorial purposes, and the other English papers seem to align with Businesses and Western Interests first!

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby Mahendra » 05 Oct 2009 01:04

NDTV debate on the India China border dispute

JNU dumbette has a :eek: question at 36:00

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby pgbhat » 05 Oct 2009 01:47

vaman wrote:NDTV debate on the India China border dispute

JNU dumbette has a :eek: question at 36:00

Independence of India from Brits was also an internal matter of UK. :roll:

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby kittoo » 05 Oct 2009 01:59

pgbhat wrote:
vaman wrote:NDTV debate on the India China border dispute

JNU dumbette has a :eek: question at 36:00

Independence of India from Brits was also an internal matter of UK. :roll:


For me somehow the video keeps breaking up in between. What did he ask?
BTW, as much as I watched, the pro-China stand of Nil basu was so evident! He was actually arguing on national TV that its Indias fault that she has border issues with China as all other 27 countries have settled!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby csharma » 05 Oct 2009 02:21

The communists in India believe that Arunchal Pradesh belongs to China. So obviously they will say that India should give up AP and settle the dispute with China.

Last five years were dangerous with guys like this in power at the center. No wonder why they were opposing the IUCNA and were willing to bring down the govt.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby pgbhat » 05 Oct 2009 02:21

^^^
CPI(M) reaction is expected, but that ignorant lady questioned why India "interfered" with Chinese internal issues when china occupied tibet and also implied that is the reason china is transgressing Indian borders. :roll:

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby SwamyG » 05 Oct 2009 05:05

After listening to that question....
It is usually said to youngsters "is desh ka bhavishay aap ke mootti me hain". I like to add "magar app ke buddhi par nahin hain"

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby kittoo » 05 Oct 2009 06:56

Guys isnt there a possibility that is sensitive debates like these, the junta thats sitting there is chosen and not some guys from some college or random people? I mean, what if someone stands up there and shoves the CPI guy in the corner, thats very probable cause once someone with knowledge and patriotism starts going its pretty hard to counter, and I believe there was no way that Nil Basu could argue with someone of calibre of esteemed jingos here (like Arun_S, NRao, N3 etc). I felt that the guys sitting there were clapping at random cues. I felt it strange that never is the case that someone in the audience stands up and counters the wrong side with full force.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby RayC » 05 Oct 2009 11:04

pgbhat wrote:^^^
CPI(M) reaction is expected, but that ignorant lady questioned why India "interfered" with Chinese internal issues when china occupied tibet and also implied that is the reason china is transgressing Indian borders. :roll:


I am reminded of a gem - you can be the friend of your enemy through a lack of character.

I find very little to suggest that India is afflicted by a lack character. More or less, India is on the right track and whatever is happening could hardly be deemed to be result of what is being termed most unfortunately as 'interference'.

Now, if China finds India in the neighbourhood that she extended by occupying Tibet as irksome, then it is China's problem and not India's. And if China wishes to eye Indian territory and we hand it over on a platter to China as Pakistan did for Shaksgam, then that is what I would call 'lack of character'.

Fortunately, India has the vast majority who would not hand over any part of India on the platter and tread the policy of 'peace at all cost'!

If Nilotpaul Bosu has indicated a pro China tilt, then may his tribe of Communists decrease further in the next elections! As it is, they are kissing Bengal goodbye! Rout after rout after rout and now, the proof of the pudding - internal squabbling, Vedic Village et al!

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby AdityaM » 05 Oct 2009 12:54

Now what to make of this:
E-mail in Chinese threatens war against India

Now, a threatening email in Chinese is being circulated in India's north-eastern state.....
Three Maps are attached to the mail. One shows all of Arunachal within China, another marks Indian territory and the third marks New Delhi with a message in Chinese - that the People's Liberation Army needs just 2 days to occupy this place.


Anyone can send out emails, so wonder if its a hoax.
BTW, how does an email circulate within a geographical location only :?:

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby csharma » 08 Oct 2009 09:48

http://www.idsa.in/publications/stratco ... 100909.htm

What do Chinese intrusions across the Line of Actual Control Tell India?

The reason behind the heightened Chinese incursions has been falsely attributed by many to the on-going strengthening of Indian military capability along the LAC – the deployment of Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter jets in Tezpur, raising of two additional mountain divisions for the defence of Arunachal Pradesh, the landing of AN-32 transport plane at Daulat Begh Oldhi, the proposed deployment of an AWACS (airborne warning and control systems) plane as ‘force multiplier’ in the Ladakh sector, and the construction of 27 strategic roads along the India-China border. It is being argued that Chinese border intrusions are a reaction to these developments. The reality is, however, quite different. China does not need any of these excuses to transgress the LAC. It has been doing so in the past and will continue to do so in future. The unsettled border and these incursions are nothing but a manifestation of the uneasy relationship which the two countries share. The slow and steady emergence of India as a strong power in Asia is not looked upon favourably by China. And this sentiment also adversely impacts on the attempts to resolve the border dispute amicably.


Intrusions by Chinese troops into Indian territory are signals meant to assert China’s growing political and military stature as well as means to test India’s resolve. Given India’s gradual emergence as a powerful military and economic power in Asia, China is unlikely to be keen on settling the border issue till such time India slumps into a period of weakness. Thus, for the foreseeable future, the India-China border is likely to be characterised by tensions, incursions and skirmishes, interspersed with endless border negotiations. Given this, India needs to be prepared for any eventuality and calibrate its responses to Chinese intrusions.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby RayC » 08 Oct 2009 13:35

China’s greatest concern, as I see it, is protecting her trade route and its trade is basically through Indian Ocean, be it from the Middle East (Oil) or Africa. However, much that China would like to gain ascendancy in the Indian Ocean, India remains an impediment along with the US and the various Straits are under ‘control’ of the US and one indirectly by India.

If one recalls Adm Mehta’s address and reads between the lines, what he left unsaid was that to counter the Chinese, the strategy would be dominating the Indian Ocean – the jugular to China’s prosperity. This, and the indigenous naval ship building activity including the nuclear submarine, has China worried.
China’s Worry

China has taken what she requires of India i.e. Aksai Chin. It was to secure the KKH and also the atomic test area of Lop Nur. KKH is vital to China in case the Indian Ocean route is disrupted since it is the alternate route for oil transhipped from the Gwadar port (they are building a oil pipeline along the KKH alignment).

The ceding of Shaksgam by Pakistan was strategically important for China. It ensured that the KKH was secure from any further Indian deployment that could threaten the KKH. Going to the north-west of the Siachen glacier at Dzingrulma — as it does at present — the line moves from NJ 9842 through Bilafond, Saltoro Kangri, Sia La, Baltoro, to join the central part of the Shaksgam area of Jammu-Kashmir which Pakistan illegally ceded to China. But if it were to go north-eastward of the Siachen glacier from Dzingrulma, the line would move on to join the India-China boundary between the eastern corner of Pakistani-ceded Shaksgam and the western corner of Chinese-occupied Aksai China. This is where the strategic Karakoram Pass is situated.

Therefore, on the Western Front, China is secure, but keeping the border dispute open ended for future requirement.

On the Eastern Front, China has built a road and also constructing the Sino-Myanmar oil pipeline linking Myanmar's deep-water port of Sittwe with Kunming, capital of China's southwestern Yunnan Province. In addition they have planned a connection to Chittagong. All this has been done to ensure that the oil supply to China is not disrupted for long, as also a part of the encircling of India plan.

Chinese are a pragmatic people and farsighted. They are inscrutable since they hold their cards close to their chest. These incursions are basically to send a message to the Asian neighbourhood that they are the big boys in the block, in case successful to occupy area, it helps in increasing the strategic depth and most importantly, divert Indian defence budget to refurbish the Indian Army and Airforce wherein funds for the Navy are diminished.

I wonder if the Maoist menace is not a part of China’s game-plan to divert funds and start a war against Maoist that becomes unending and wasteful in funds!

As far as Maoists are concerned, a Sri Lanka should be done and damn what pinkos have to say!

The Indian Ocean is China's Achilles Heel!

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby rkirankr » 08 Oct 2009 14:15

RayC
China has taken what she requires of India i.e. Aksai Chin. It was to secure the KKH and also the atomic test area of Lop Nur. KKH is vital to China in case the Indian Ocean route is disrupted since it is the alternate route for oil transhipped from the Gwadar port (they are building a oil pipeline along the KKH alignment).


So they had planned well ahead in 62 of what they need and probably anticipated that even by stumbling along India will be a irritant and they tried to take care of it long back. A very long vision they have.
Our strategies (if you can call that) seems to be reactions to their moves

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby Philip » 08 Oct 2009 15:56

For more than 25 years I've been pointing out China's oil ambitions with the KKH,Lankan gambit,Gwadar and other strategic moves in Burma and other neighbouring and regional states.The masterplan was put into place a long time ago,the pursuit of the plan has been relentless.More important than the pipeline through the KKH,which can easily be severed,is the ability of China to move large numbers of troops from Tibet into Pak and threreon into the Gulf region through the KKH,Gwadar and thanks to the new Tibetan railway and infrastructure that has been built.

If Pak trembles and totters on the brink,a civil/military regime in pak might very well request the Chinese to send troops in to assist in "restoring order".If US and NATO forces can operate out of Paki bases and territory,what is there to prevent the Chinese too at some approaching date? If the Russians and Americans could "assist" Afghanistan by sending in troops,so could the Chinese with respect to Pak.Chinse military forces operating out of Paki territory is simply intolerable for India and it is happening right now in Aksai Chin in POK,being now called "COK"!

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby chanakyaa » 14 Oct 2009 19:37

BRF Gurus,

What's up with this news?

"After completion of the border fence work with Bangladesh, Burma could start exploring unilaterally oil and gas in the Bay of Bengal by deploying army members."

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby cheng » 16 Oct 2009 10:55

AdityaM wrote:Now what to make of this:
E-mail in Chinese threatens war against India

Now, a threatening email in Chinese is being circulated in India's north-eastern state.....
Three Maps are attached to the mail. One shows all of Arunachal within China, another marks Indian territory and the third marks New Delhi with a message in Chinese - that the People's Liberation Army needs just 2 days to occupy this place.


Anyone can send out emails, so wonder if its a hoax.
BTW, how does an email circulate within a geographical location only :?:


I would remind you , that US is the top class player of such game.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby AdityaM » 16 Oct 2009 11:04

pacific_blue wrote:I would remind you , that US is the top class player of such game.

An so is china!

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby negi » 17 Oct 2009 20:08

Arunachal students submit anti-China memo to Uttarakhand CM

A group of students hailing from Arunachal Pradesh, studying at Dehra Dun, has urged an action against China for its misadventures in
the border region, in a memorandum submitted to the Uttarakhand chief minister.

The students of Information Technology Institute for the Tribes of India (ITITI), Dehra Dun, presented a memorandum to chief minister Ramesh Pokhariyal Nishank, demanding creation of an 'Arunachal Battalion', to thwart any mischief from China and defend 'Mother India'.

The students' delegation led by Japken Kena, a Class X student, said, "No youth in Arunachal Pradesh will tolerate any mischief from the expansionist China."

The students said they want to join the Army and show the world that they are and shall always remain Indians.

CM Nishank assured them that their requests would be conveyed to the Prime Minister and the President.

"Till we have such patriotic students, we need not fear any one in the world," Nishank said.

The memorandum said, "We, the students of Arunachal Pradesh, want to express the concern and resolve of all Arunachal people regarding the arrogant, war-mongering interventions of China that claims Arunachal as its territory. We and our parents want to convey to Chinese people and their expansionist government that there is no India without Arunachal and no Arunachal without India. We are first Indians and then anything else."

The students further said, "We, the Arunachalis, are very patriotic people and will shed the last drop of our blood for defending our mighty India. We are cautioning China that it should not flare up tensions and hurt the peaceful people, otherwise it must remember that 2009 is not 1962 and we are well prepared for any eventuality."

They also made a request for setting up a military training facility in ITITI, so that they could join forces after completing education.
8)

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby Singha » 17 Oct 2009 20:59

even in the heyday of the big chinese dynasties, tibet was a frontier land which had fitful contacts with the chinese river valleys . chinese adventurism focussed on the gansu corridor north of tibet to reach the desert 'seas' of xinjiang and its oasis cities and from there to samarkhand.

their claims on tibet are totally hollow and illegal. by that account, most of the world would still be under the british flag.

India must officially reverse course and cancel its cowardly and foolish acceptance of tibet as a part of china.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby tejas » 17 Oct 2009 23:49

What upsets me the most is that this foolish acceptance was under ABV and the BJP in exchange for the Chinese giving up claims on that microscopic piece of land called Sikkim. Which even now they have backtracked on.

I think the world class strategists in the GOI fear that if India doesn't accept the Chinese genocide in Tibet the Chinese response could be major. What if, for example, the Chinese supplied the Pukes with nukes and ballistic missiles to target India. They could lend support to Maoists and Kashmiri freedom fighters. They could oppose loans to India at multilateral lending agencies.

They could even flood Africa with defective counterfeit Indian goods and cause us economic damages. So I think the Goi is as usual correct and you need to reconsider your views, GD.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby darshan » 18 Oct 2009 00:12

tejas wrote:What upsets me the most is that this foolish acceptance was under ABV and the BJP in exchange for the Chinese giving up claims on that microscopic piece of land called Sikkim. Which even now they have backtracked on.


I do not want to start a debate here but ABV is a seasoned politician to deal with chinese. Sikkim is part of India and it does not matter how much microscopic you think it is.
The way I see it, ABV's "foolishness" had created perfect opportunity for India to backtrack on many things once chinese did but nobody capitalized it.


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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby AnimeshP » 22 Oct 2009 15:42

Am currently in desh and have talked to a few people which includes friends posted along the China border and some more people who are in the know of things ... Each one of them has told me that this current ruckus about Chinese incursions is mere media hype ...
take it FWIW ...

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby kittoo » 22 Oct 2009 16:04

AnimeshP wrote:Am currently in desh and have talked to a few people which includes friends posted along the China border and some more people who are in the know of things ... Each one of them has told me that this current ruckus about Chinese incursions is mere media hype ...
take it FWIW ...


But its good only if it forces the govt to fast track procurements and strengthen NE infra.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby chanakyaa » 04 Jan 2010 20:27

I came across an interesting article in FT.com so I thought I would share it along with some comments. I've been trying to frame the issue for a long time but some Kangress party member and FT.com has done a better job.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/28211170-f875-11de-beb8-00144feab49a.html

China’s progress provokes border envy in India

Indians living in border areas neighbouring China are beginning to envy fast-paced development brought by Beijing to the point of regretting being Indian, a senior member of India's ruling Congress party has warned.

Mani Shankar Aiyar, a former senior diplomat and cabinet minister with responsibility for India’s volatile northeast region, described the development that China was bringing to its southwest and Tibet as “simply spectacular”.......


This article and the views of some "senior member of the Kangress party" captures a problem which in my views is one of the serious problems facing the border states and GoI. And, if GoI's attitude and strategy (if at all any..) about north east states continues, the border dispute could end up in a disaster where the border states could one day themselves ask GoI to let them formally join China. And, if they do, why shouldn't they? If you are a young boy or a girl growing up in these states, would you believe the growth and prosperity happening just across the border in China or empty promises of some thug politician sitting hundreds of kilometers away sipping bottled water in his or her "kursi (chair)" in New Delhi. If you are claiming that much of what China is doing across the border is a phony show, relax. You can spend few billion dollars to put a good show but creating a $4 trillion economy is no joke.

The article includes an insider GoI view, of course arguably, that the infrastructure in NE states was withheld on purpose to avoid potential Chinese incursion.

India has deliberately withheld infrastructure development from its border regions to prevent China being able to penetrate deeply into India in case of an invasion across the Himalayas.


Not sure how far it is true, b'cas it could be one person's opinion. If I can give an analogy, this is as crazy as saying "Because my neighbor doesn't have Cable TV, I don't want to buy Cable TV because then the neighbor would also get to listen for free". It probably made sense after the 62 war but the continued lack of interest in NE states is going to prove disastrous.

I would not be surprised if in 10-15 years, China officially approaches the NE residents and opens the offer to China, of course along with their land. We can strengthen our armed forces to a great extent and build all kinds of MT, KT (whatever those acronyms mean..) but we can't stop states from joining China if they desperately want to. Now you will say, wait a second. Just because countries become prosperous, they don't start making open offers to states of the neighboring countries. You may also give me an example of Mexico and US. But US does not claim a right on Mexico's states, China does on AP. For that matter if you are Mizoram or Nagaland, why are you at fault to wonder, are you better off in Communist/Capitalist Chini or Indian hands? SIX DECADES HAVE BEEN WASTED.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby Singha » 04 Jan 2010 20:38

due to lack of local manufacturing (poor infra makes it infeasible to make much there) , the chinese goods flowing across the border are cheaper.

good infra is a must as a "base" for all further activity.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Jan 2010 15:24

India has lost 'substantial' land to China: Official report

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/India-has-lost-substantial-land-to-China-Official-report/articleshow/5430564.cms

The area along Line of Actual Control with China has "shrunk" over a period of time and India has lost "substantial" amount of land in the last two decades, says an official report.




The SDM contended that it was another attempt by the Chinese to claim the territory as disputed in the same fashion as they had taken Nag Tsang area opposite to Phuktse airfield in 1984, Nakung in 1991 and Lungma-Serding in 1992.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby anuj » 10 Jan 2010 15:38

chanakyaa wrote:but we can't stop states from joining China if they desperately want to.

No NE state wants to join china. They just want infra-development and to be left alone so that there culture will not be threatened by indian culture. Naga's and mizo's have openly stated that they are not indians but they are with india.

India has understood that and given autonomy where it is asked. This is list of the autonomous regions in india.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby Neela » 10 Jan 2010 15:57

What is China doing now?

- It moves more and more into Indian territory
- Changes maps, globes etc to show occupied regions as disputed territory.

Pretty soon, it will claim that India is occupying the land illegally!

The Indian media is doing good job here - clearly showing GoI's slumber and inaction

Time for India to join hands with Japan and Vietnam to join hands and take on China together on the land front. This will make them go on the back foot.

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Re: Chinese incursions into Indian territory: News and Analysis

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Jan 2010 16:03

Neela wrote:What is China doing now?

- It moves more and more into Indian territory
- Changes maps, globes etc to show occupied regions as disputed territory.

Pretty soon, it will claim that India is occupying the land illegally!

The Indian media is doing good job here - clearly showing GoI's slumber and inaction

Time for India to join hands with Japan and Vietnam to join hands and take on China together on the land front. This will make them go on the back foot.


How many sq km have we lost in Ladakh (w.r.t. the line after the 1962 war )? Probably the Govt is not going to tell us.



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