People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

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People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 22 Nov 2009 11:27

self-explanatory thread title. will add links and materials on understanding PRC as time goes on, similar to the TSP thread.
This is the NEW china thread.

****for discussions on PRC's economy or industry****
use the PRC economy thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4036 in tech/econ forum.

NOTE 1 : India China thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4981&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a is locked for now. we will bring it back if there's a need for a dedicated thread on India china relations.

NOTE 2 : Understanding chinese thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3992&start=360&st=0&sk=t&sd=a now locked. will be archived.

***************************************************

UNDERSTANDING CHINA

1. Sardar Patel's Letter to Nehru, outlining the threat from China and its likely intentions.
http://www.friendsoftibet.org/main/sardar.html

2. Studies of Modern Chinese History: UC San Diego
http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/chinesehistory/ ... tml#essays

Thanks to Ray C.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Virupaksha » 22 Nov 2009 11:41

Chellany's essay on WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-200 ... 13855.html
The renewed Sino-Indian border tensions arising from growing Chinese assertiveness raise an oft-asked question: What has prompted Beijing to up the ante against New Delhi?


Until mid-2005, China was eschewing anti-India rhetoric and pursuing a policy of active engagement with India, even as it continued to expand its strategic space in southern Asia, to India's detriment.

But by late 2005, the mood in Beijing had noticeably changed.

In fact, the Chinese practice of describing Arunachal, with 1.3 million residents, as "southern Tibet" started only in 2006.


The only major development in that period was the new U.S.-India strategic tie-up, as defined by the defense-framework accord and nuclear deal, but a U.S.-India military alliance has always been a strategic nightmare for the Chinese.


Because the sixth Dalai Lama was born in the 17th century in Arunachal's Tawang district, Beijing claims that Arunachal belongs to Tibet and thus is part of China.
By the same argument, it can also lay claim to Mongolia, as the fourth Dalai Lama was born there in 1589.
The traditional ecclesiastical links between Mongolia and Tibet indeed have been closer than those between Arunachal and Tibet.
What makes China's claim even more untenable is that it has hived off the birthplaces of the seventh, 10th, 11th and the present 14th Dalai Lamas from Tibet.
Before seeking Arunachal, shouldn't Beijing first return the traditional Tibetan areas of Amdo and eastern Kham to Tibet?

India's current predicament is a far cry from what former U.S. President George W. Bush had touted in his valedictory speech as one of his signal achievements: "We opened a new historic and strategic partnership with India."
The Obama administration isn't unfriendly to India.
It just doesn't see India as able to make an important difference to U.S. geopolitical interests.
Another factor is that America's Asia policy is no longer guided by an overarching geopolitical framework. it basically means the recession is having a big effect on US policy


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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 22 Nov 2009 17:06

This is a good time as any to post what Sardar Vallabhai Patel wrote to Nehru in Nov. 1950.
Very perceptive and insightful.

I have carefully gone through the correspondence between the External Affaits Ministry and our Ambassador in Peking and through him the Chinese government. I have tried to peruse this correspondence favourably to our Ambassador and the Chinese government as possible, but I regret to say that neither of them came out well as a result of this study. The Chinese government has tried to delude us by professions of peaceful intentions. My own feeling is that at a crucial period they managed to instill into our ambassador a false sense of confidence in their so-called desire to settle the Tibetan problem by peaceful means.

There can be no doubt that during the period covered by this correspondence, the Chinese must have been concentrating for an onslaught on Tibet. The final action of the Chinese, in my judgement, is little short of perfidy. The tragedy of it is that the Tibetans put faith in us; they chose to be guided by us; and we have been unable to get them out of the meshes of Chinese diplomacy or Chinese malevolence. From the latest position, it appears that we shall not be able to rescue the Dalai Lama.

Our ambassador has been at great pains to find an explanation or justification for Chinese policy and actions. As the External Affairs Ministry remarked in one of their telegrams, there was a lack of firmness and and unnecessary apology in one or two representations that he made to the Chinese government on our behalf.

It is impossible to imagine any sensible person believing in the so-called threat to China from Anglo-American machinations in Tibet. Therefore, if the Chinese put faith in this, they must have distrusted us so completely as to have taken us as tools or stooges of Anglo-American diplomacy or strategy. This feeling, if genuinely entertained by the Chinese in spite of your direct approaches to them, indicates that even though we regard ourselves as friends of China, the Chinese do not regard us as their friends. With the communist mentality of 'whoever is not with them is against them', this is a significant pointer, of which we have to take due note.

During the last several months, outside the Russian camp, we have practically been alone in championing the cause of the Chinese entry into the UNO and in securing from the Americans assurances on the question of Formosa. We have done everything we could to assuage Chinese feelings, to allay its apprehensions and to defend its legitimate claims in our discussions and correspondence with American and Britain in the UNO. In spite of this, China is not convinced about our disinterestedness; it continues to regard us with suspicion and the whole psychology is one, at least outwardly, of scepticism, perhaps mixed with a little hostility.

I doubt if we can go any further than we have done already to convince China of our good intentions, friendliness and good will. In Peking we have an Ambassador who is eminently suitable for putiing across the friendly point of view. Even he seems to have failed to convert the Chinese. Their last telegram to us is an act of gross discourtesey not only in the summary way it disposes of our protest against the entry of Chinese forces into Tibet but also in the wild insinuation that our attitude is determined by foreign influences. It looks as though it is not a friend speaking that language but a potential enemy.

With this background, we have to consider what new situation we are now faced with as a result of the disappearance of Tibet, as we knew it, and the Chinese expansion almost up to our gates. Throughout history, we have seldom been worried about our North-East frontier. The Himalayas have been regarded as an impenetrable barrier against any threat from the north. We had a friendly Tibet, which gave us no trouble. The Chinese were divided. They had their own domestic problems and never bothered us about our frontiers.

In 1914, we entered into a convention with Tibet, which was not endorsed by the Chinese. We seem to have regarded Tibetan autonomy as extending to an independent treaty relationship. Presumably, all that we required was the Chinese counter-signature. The Chinese interpretation of suzerainty seems to be different. We can, therefore, safely assume that very soon they will disown all the stipulations which Tibet has entered into in the past. That throws all frontier and commercial settlements with Tibet, in accordance with which we had been functioning and acting during the last half a century, into the melting pot.

China is no longer divided. It is united and strong. All along the Himalayas in the Nort and the North East, we have on our side of the frontier the population not ethnologically and culturally different from the Tibetans or Mongoloids. The undefined state of the frontier and existence on our side of a population with affinities to Tibetans or Chinese has all the elements of potential trouble between China and us. Recent and bitter history also tells us that communism is no shield against imperialism, and that the communists are as good or as bad imperialists as any other.

Chinese ambitions in this respect not only cover the Himalayan slopes on our side but also include important parts of Assam. They have their ambitions in Burma also. Burma has the added difficulty that it has no McMahon line around which even to build a semblance of the agreement. Chinese irredentism and communist imperialism are different from the expansionism or the imperialism of the Western powers. The former has an ideological cloak, which makes it ten times worse.

Racial, national and historical claims lie concealed in the guise of ideological expansion. The danger from the Nort and Nort East, therefore becomes both communist and imperialist. While our western and northwestern threat to security is still as prominent as before, a new threat has developed from the north and the north east.

Thus, for the first time after centuries, India's defence has to concentrate on two fronts simultaneously. Our defence measures have so far been based on calculations of superiority over Pakistan. We shall now have to reckon with communist China in the north and the north east, a communist China which ahs definite ambitions and aims and which does not in any way seem friendly towards us.

Let us also consider the political conditions on this potentially troublesome frontier. Our northern or north eastern approaches consist of Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, Darjeeling and tribal areas of Assam. They are weak from the point of view of communications. Continuous defensive lines do not exist. There is an almost unlimited scope for infiltration. Police protection is limited to a very small number of passes. There, too, our outposts do not seem to be fully manned. Our contact with these ares is by no means close and intimate.

The people inhabiting these portions have no established loyalty or devotion to India. Even the Darjeeling and Kalimpong areas are not free from pro-Mongoloid prejudices. During the last three years we have not been able to make any appreciable approaches to the Nagas and other hill tribes of Assam. European missionaries and other visitors had been in touch with them, but their influence was in no way friendly where Indians were concerned. There was political ferment in Sikkim some time ago.It is quite possible that discontent is smouldering there.

Bhutan is comparatively quiet, but its affinity with Tibetans would be ahandicap. Nepal has a weak oligarchic regime based almost entirely on force; it is in conflict with a turbulent element of the population, as well as enlightened ideas of the modern age. In these circumstances, to make people aware of the new danger, or to increase the defensive strength is a very difficult task indeed; and that difficulty can be got over only enlightened firmness, strength and a clear line of policy.

I am sure that the Chinese, and their source of inspiration, Soviet Russia, would not miss any opportunity of exploiting those weak spots, partly in support of their ideology and partly their ambitions. In my judgement, therefore, the situation is one in which we cannot affordto be either complacent or vaccilating. We must have a clear idea of what we wish to achieve and the methods by which we should achieve it. Any lack of decisiveness in formulating our objectives or pursuing our policy to attain them is bound to weaken us and increase the threats.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Muppalla » 22 Nov 2009 19:14

Good thoughts guys to have this thread. As BRF moves to concentrate on China centric issues from TSP centric issues it means the time is arriving to see the end of Pakistan. Long live Pasthunistan!!! It is a reminder to who ever lurks/participates in BRF to focus on the real enemy of India.

Until Chinese establishment follows the following principles, it remains an enemy of India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refuge_(Buddhism)

Hope sense prevails or else we will be fighting for a just cause for creating sense into it with all means at our hands
.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Manny » 22 Nov 2009 23:49

********* WARNING VERY GRAPHIC ************

Only the Indian Maoists and its sympathizers could appreciate this Chinese Culture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqc08222 ... re=related

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 23 Nov 2009 00:08

SS, do you have the link for that ? I want to add it to the first post.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 23 Nov 2009 07:01

Rahul, unfortunately no. I had to type the whole thing from J.N.Dixit's book "Makers of India's Foreign policy".

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 23 Nov 2009 07:11

thanks anyway SS, I found it after some search.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Manny » 23 Nov 2009 08:26

Can we have an Indo-Tibeten border thread ? You know to discuss Chinese invasion of the country of Tibet and its now army stationed in the country of Tibet alongside the Indo-Tibeten border.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 23 Nov 2009 08:37

Manny wrote:Can we have an Indo-Tibeten border thread ? You know to discuss Chinese invasion of the country of Tibet and its now army stationed in the country of Tibet alongside the Indo-Tibeten border.


we have
Could China and India go to war over Tibet?
Tibet watch
in strat forum

and
China border watch
War inside Tibet - goals, strategies and equipment
in mil forum. how many more do you want ? :wink:
----------
seems I need to prune some of the threads. will notify people accordingly.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Malayappan » 23 Nov 2009 09:23

Understanding China by Martin Jacques, Los Angeles Times, Nov 22, 2009

Some Excerpts
Ever since the Nixon-Mao rapprochement, and through the various iterations of the Sino-American relationship over the subsequent almost four decades, there has been an overriding belief in the West that eventually China would become like us: that, for example, a market economy would lead to democratization and that a free media was inevitable. This hubristic outlook is deeply flawed, but it still prevails, albeit with small cracks of self-doubt starting to appear
Unlike Western nation-states, China's sense of identity comes from its long history as a civilization-state.
Or to put it another way, when the presidents of China and the United States meet in Beijing in 2019, with the Chinese economy fast approaching the size of the American economy, we can be sure that the Chinese sense of hubris will be far stronger than in 2009.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 23 Nov 2009 10:04


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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 23 Nov 2009 10:09

From Force magazine that I no longer consider as taboo here, a great article by Lt Gen Sawhney
http://www.forceindia.net/coverstory12.aspx
While India has been bending backwards to appease China over the years, Chinese diplomacy is cunningly devised to target India on multiple fronts like their claim on Arunachal Pradesh, Aksai Chin, Sikkim and now J&K. Interestingly, each issue is cleverly left unresolved and open-ended, to be exploited as and when required. In sharp contrast, we may question our diplomatic mandarins as to why we have no important leverages in our kitty to discomfort China. Why are we so sensitive to China’s sensitivities? Why did we pander to their desires by allowing almost no contacts with Taiwan? Out of personal experience I know that meeting or even contemplating any contact with this country was deemed a cardinal sin by the ministry of external affairs. Meeting Dalai Lama, when he was visiting Assam, while I was commanding 4 Corps required clearance from New Delhi. What dividends have we reaped adhering to such policies? Outrage, when the President or PM visits Arunachal Pradesh!

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 23 Nov 2009 10:13

Thanks for the Invite Mr. President, Now Can We Talk About Beijing? ----- WSJ
But you'd have thought from the Indian response that chief purpose of the statement was to insult India and show it as a third wheel in the trilateral relationship. "A third country role cannot be envisaged. Nor is it necessary," said the Ministry of External Affairs in a terse statement. Some in the business community were incensed because the issue threatened to distract from the carefully-orchestrated camaraderie that is supposed to happen on a business-to-business level on the sidelines of Mr. Singh's visit. And it served up a nice juicy morsel of outrage for the think-tankeratti.

"President Obama's invitation to China to play a role in ensuring peace and security in South Asia, just days before PM Manmohan Singh's visit to the U.S. may end up clouding any other bilateral achievements from this summit," Imagindia, a think tank dedicated to improving India's image, said in a press release. "The only way for the U.S. to recoup momentum and deflect the perceived tilt may be to unequivocally support India for a co-equal seat at the UN Security Council."


Mr. Roemer's appearance was strong on rhetoric. He kept saying that the U.S. and India "stand shoulder to shoulder, hand in hand, hour by hour" on counterterrorism. Of the increasing closeness of the broader U.S.-India relationship, he said, "Historians might look back 30 years from now and say 2009 might have been the starting point for that trajectory going forward."

We will just have to hope that in 2039 historians look back on 2009 as a positive one for India-U.S. relations and not the moment when a promising relationship was thrown off course.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 24 Nov 2009 22:09

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 264334.cms

China refuses to take Hurriyat bait, says not party to Kashmir conflict
Saibal Dasgupta, TNN 24 November 2009, 04:31pm IST

BEIJING: China on Tuesday refused to be drawn into the renewed controversy over Kashmir, which has been ignited with Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, chairman of All Parties Hurriyat Conference, saying that Beijing should act as it had a stake in the region's peace.

"The Kashmir issue is an issue between India and Pakistan left over by history. We hope the two sides could properly resolve the issue through dialogue and negotiations," Qin Gang, the foreign ministry spokesman said in reply to a question seeking his response to Farooq’s remarks.


http://www.morungexpress.com/national/38254.html
I don’t understand China’s assertiveness: PM

Washington, November 24 (Agencies): India’s relation with Pakistan, China and the terror scourge is weighing heavily on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s mind as he get ready to meet US President Barack Obama as his first state guest in Washington on Tuesday. Admitting that Sino-India relationship hit a new low especially after Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama’s trip to Arunachal Pradesh recently, Singh said he failed to understand the reason behind the assertiveness on the Chinese part.
“We want the world to prepare for the peaceful rise of China as a major power. So, engagement is the right strategy for India as well as for United States. We ourselves have tried very hard to engage China in the last five years and today China is one of our major trading partners. We also recognise that we have a long standing border problem with China. We are trying to resolve it through dialogue. In the meanwhile both our countries have agreed that pending the resolution of the border problem, peace and tranquility should be maintained in the border line. Having said that I should say that I have received these assurances from Chinese leadership from the highest level. There is but a certain amount of assertiveness on the Chinese part. I don’t fully understand the reasons for it,” Singh said at the Council on Foreign Relations.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 24 Nov 2009 22:16

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD9C5THIG0

China executes 2 for role in tainted milk scandal

By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN (AP) – 3 hours ago

BEIJING — China executed a dairy farmer and a milk salesman Tuesday, the only two people sentenced to death in a scheme to water down infant formula with an industrial chemical that left at least six children dead and sickened more than 300,000.
............
Dairy farmers and the middlemen involved in the scam conspired to increase profits by watering down milk and milk products before they sold it, fooling inspectors testing for protein content by adding melamine — used in the manufacture of plastics and fertilizers. Melamine, like protein, is high in nitrogen.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 24 Nov 2009 22:29

Death toll in China mine blast up to 104

Families of miners seek answers in China mine blast

China activist Huang Qi sentenced to three years
Chinese activist Huang Qi has been sentenced to three years in prison for "illegally holding state secrets".

Mr Huang was arrested after helping families whose children died during the earthquake in Sichuan in May last year.


In China, a Struggle for Rights, but Hope for Future
Winston Lord, a longtime China expert who was the U.S. ambassador to China in the late 1980s, and was most recently there in May.

Ambassador Lord, in general, how would you describe the rights that Chinese citizens have at this moment?

WINSTON LORD: I would sum it up this way, Jim.
First, China is much better than North Korea, and it's much worse than Iran. It's going backwards. And, in some areas, it's worse than when I was ambassador 20 years ago.
.........
XIAO QIANG: Well, the right to dissent has never been there in the Chinese history, for thousands of years, except some brief period of time during the last century.
.........
But we should not sanitize China, any more than we should demonize China. And this is a cruel regime, in many respects, or a cruel system. It's not just on political issues. When the parents of the Sichuan earthquake victims, the children who died because of shoddy construction in the schools, tried to air their grievances, or the parents of children who have died because of tainted milk, or people suffering from AIDS, or their lawyer activist friends are locked up in jail, that goes beyond just sensitivity to political issues.
..............
A couple of points: I agree that, for example, the Chinese people now do not have to actively support the government. There's the freedom of silence, which you didn't have during the Cultural Revolution.


Toxic Drywall From China Poisoning American Homes and Their Owners

New homeowners in Florida, Louisiana and Virginia are being forced out of their homes because of toxic indoor air quality. The culprit -toxic drywall from China. Tests are revealing that the toxic drywall contains hydrogen sulfide and formaldehyde, both of which are incredibly harmful to your health. The toxins are also causing visible signs of corrosion throughout the homes – blackening copper pipes and wiring, causing appliances to fail, and filling the homes with the smell of rotten eggs. What’s worse, many of the homeowners are also horribly sick, with nosebleeds, sinus infections, respiratory problems and more. It’s nightmares like this situation that remind us how important it is to build with non-toxic and eco-friendly materials – not just for the environment, but for our health and sanity too!

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 25 Nov 2009 19:21

Ongoing series of the paranoid republic of china...
In China, an easy route to academic glory ---- Stephen Wong

SHANGHAI - Often overlooked in the "miracle" of China's rapid economic development over the past three decades is the "miracle" in the massive number of PhD graduates it now produces. Unlike national pride over China's economic success, the expansion of PhD programs is viewed with suspicion, due to allegations that corruption in the education system has severely compromised academic standards.

According to statistics released by Yang Yuliang, the director of the Academic Degree Commission under the State Council - China's cabinet, China's first PhD programs in 1978 had only 18 candidates. In 1982, the first doctorates were awarded to six of the 18. However, post-graduate programs increased exponentially with the fast expansion of tertiary education in 1999 as a result of the government's policy to "industrialize" universities. The government believed that higher enrollment would create a generation of educated urbanites, boosting domestic consumption and reducing dependence on exports after the 1997 Asian financial crisis.

http://atimes.com/atimes/China/KK25Ad01.html


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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 27 Nov 2009 00:15

Chiron,
Looks like China over polluted and now cutting will not be a problem. We are a fraction

China’s emission levels are a lot more than India, which may be expected to set lower targets. But New Delhi has been reluctant to announce any targets at all. Beijing’s announcement will put pressure on India, South Africa and Brazil to announce targets if they wish to stick with China in a joint front at the Copenhagen meeting, sources explained.

It is Xie, who made the announcement that China would aim to cut carbon intensity — the amount of carbon dioxide emissions per unit of gross domestic product — by a range of 40% to 45% by 2020. It came a day after Obama said the US intends to cut its greenhouse-gas emissions by 17% below 2005 levels by 2020, and by 83% by 2050.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby NRao » 27 Nov 2009 02:20

The emissions issue is that which will arise in the future - not today or a year from now!!!! THEN India should have a substantial chunk of it. You cannot expect eco to grow at 9% a year and no pollute.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 27 Nov 2009 10:08

After spurious drugs and contaminated milk, it is spurious cosmetics: All from China
Chennai Customs on Thursday seized a huge haul of spurious cosmetics like body spray and deodorants worth Rs 2 crore and imported from China at Chennai Port.

The spurious items resembling popular brands like Charlie, Maxi, Blue Lady, Havoc Silver, Denim, Tomy Girl and Nike

Rajan said these cosmetics, which were originally manufactured in China, had fake labels like ‘Made in EEU’, ‘Made in South Africa’ and ‘Made in UK’.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby SSridhar » 28 Nov 2009 07:50

A.K.Antony at IDSA
The increasing nexus between China and Pakistan in the military sphere remained an area of serious concern, he said. India would have to carry out continuous appraisals of Chinese military capabilities and shape its responses accordingly.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Gagan » 28 Nov 2009 08:35

I think it is becoming increasingly clear that China will not touch the Kashmir issue with a bargepole, perhaps because it has the Tibet issue where India can play dirty with it what with the tibetean government in exile in Dharamsala.

India should go ahead and 'ahem' solve the kashmir issue from Pakistan, assured that China will make noises, will increase patrolling, but will not go to the extent of intervening militarily.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby kittoo » 28 Nov 2009 09:16

Its laughable but, the condition regarding China was so desperate a few weeks ago, because of cowardice of our government in opposing China, that even if the govt does nothing, I kinda feel good that at least they've grown some spine and are saying statements opposing China openly.


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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shynee » 30 Nov 2009 05:01

Luxury prisons for well-connected officials
Apparently the wages of sin are not so bad - at least if you have connections. The latest scandal to roil the Chinese internet involves photos of luxurious prison facilities apparently reserved for high-ranking or otherwise well-connected officials.


Aristocratic prisons better than Project Hope schools

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby NRao » 30 Nov 2009 08:41


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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 30 Nov 2009 10:10

Srinagar: In yet another instance of China’s high-handedness along its border with India, reports claimed on Monday that Chinese Army is objecting to construction of a road inside India at Demchok in Ladakh; bringing the work at the site to a halt.

The road was being constructed under Centre’s National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NREGS) and is in the last inhabited area on the Line of Actual Control (LOAC).

As per the report, workers at the construction site were threatened by a group of people from had come from across the border, following which, the workers fearing for their life discontinued work at the site.

Jammu & Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah has also confirmed that road construction has come to a halt. He has now informed the Centre about the same.

Leh Deputy Commissioner Ajit Kumar Sahu has visited the area and made a report which is to be submitted to the government.

According to Chering Dorjay, Chief Executive Councillor of the Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council, The Chinese also constructed a road on their side but India did not object to that. There is a nullah which separates the LOAC and the proximity to Chinese land is so much that we can communicate to them.

When the construction work was going on Chinese shouted at the villagers asking them to stop the work, he further added.

The road was being constructed to the area’s connectivity and to improve the employment opportunities in the area.

Earlier too, China has been accused of incursions into the Indian territory and also of carrying out construction work along side Sino-India border without India’s knowledge, including a dam construction at the Brahmputra River.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 30 Nov 2009 14:13


Hari Seldon
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 30 Nov 2009 14:48

Singha wrote:http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1943087,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

read it all.


Choice excerpts....
When China began its global investment push in the early part of this century, the flood of new money was welcomed, particularly in those parts of Asia, Africa and Latin America that felt abandoned by the West
...
Some countries, however, are no longer as willing to extend a red carpet toward the globetrotting Chinese.


Hmmm, no why might that be, one would wonder, eh? How about the following?

Although political strings might not come with Beijing's cash, there are economic catches. The roads, mines and other infrastructure on offer are most often built by armies of imported Chinese labor, cutting down on the net financial benefit to recipient nations. Chinese companies investing abroad also tend to ship in nearly everything used on building sites, from packs of dehydrated noodles to the telltale pink-hued Chinese toilet paper. It's not only the contracted Chinese workers who show up, either. Within a few years, their relatives invariably seem to materialize to set up shops selling cheap Chinese goods that threaten the livelihood of indigenous entrepreneurs. Locals who do get work on Chinese-funded projects complain that their bosses don't heed national labor laws ensuring minimum wage or trade-union protection. Over the past three years, anti-Chinese riots have erupted everywhere from the Solomon Islands and Zambia to Tonga and Lesotho. Tensions are also simmering in India, where the Chinese are involved in several major infrastructure projects. Even high-level officials are speaking up. In Vietnam, plans for a $140 million Chinese-operated open-pit bauxite mine were publicly excoriated by none other than revolutionary hero General Vo Nguyen Giap because, he said, of "the serious risk to the natural and social environment."


Well, well... the future cheenese sooperpawar has a generous heart, eh? Inspires confidence, love and respect among would-be geopol alliance partners, one would think?

"The Chinese promised us free electricity, free water supply, free job training for our boys," Bilang tells me. "But they have delivered nothing." Tensions reached a crisis point five months ago, when a local youth was accidentally injured by a Chinese-driven tractor. More than 100 villagers went on the rampage, targeting the Chinese with stones and bush knives. The foreigners defended themselves with welding torches, but three were so gravely injured — one had his stomach sliced open — that they had to be airlifted to a hospital.


Re the bolded part, seems its only ouer democratically elected natas who are experts at lying and overpromising, eh?

The dispute echoed another flare-up that erupted last year when locals armed with slingshots critically injured another three Chinese workers over what the P.N.G. nationals considered to be workplace apartheid: everything, from their food and toilets to salaries and dormitories, they alleged, was far inferior to those of the Chinese workers. "The Chinese think we are animals," says a welder named Nenge, who refuses to give me his full name lest he get fired from his job. "No days off, sometimes tinned fish for overtime pay, dirty latrines with a bad smell. How can they respect themselves after treating us so poorly?"


Cheenese capacity for self-respect is a mandate from heaven and knows no earthly bounds, morals or lieges. You mean, you didn't know that, Nenge?

"With other countries, we try to make foreign companies accountable by lobbying shareholders or raising public awareness in that country," says Matilda Koma, who runs an ecological watchdog called the Centre for Environmental and Research Development in Port Moresby. "But with China, the state and the company are the same and the public doesn't have much voice — so who can we complain to?"


Well, how about the Dalai Lama? On a more serious note, this is precisely the problem with countries that have order but no law - PRC being prime showcased example.

Last November, in a low point for Sino-P.N.G. diplomacy, the police raided the construction sites at Basamuk and Ramu and arrested 223 Chinese for immigration violations. The foreign workers, it turned out, had entered on visas that prohibited employment. Ramu NiCo, in turn, complained that government bureaucracy was so slow that getting the proper paperwork would have taken years so they were forced to circumvent the rules. But there were other infractions. Local regulations specify that foreigners can only work in jobs that locals cannot perform and that they must be able to speak either English or pidgin. Most of the Chinese workers couldn't speak a word of either language.
...
Furthermore, despite assurances that the Chinese working on-site were only engineers or other specialists, I saw Chinese sweeping up construction debris and doing other menial labor that locals could surely do.


No wonder the cheenis have of late been making noises about yindia's overly tight business visa policies towards cheeni nationals. I say, tighten 'em bloody well further. Desi workers deserve better than to see the CPM's paymasters display their genuine love towards the working class in this country.

Well, for all thje vilification, one can't deny however hard one tries that at least the cheeni model has benefited the cheenis, at least. No? Cheena isn't in the game to do charity for turd worlders, its in it to raise cheeni living stads and wages. No? No, it turns out.

Still, for all the controversy surrounding the influx of Chinese money in Africa, Latin America and Asia, the truth is that the vast majority of Chinese working abroad aren't going to go home rich. Driving up to the Ramu mine site, I stopped the car at an incongruous sight: against a backdrop of rain forest, a lone Chinese man perched on a piece of cardboard overseeing a crew of local workers struggling in the sun to sheath a pipeline with insulation tape. There was a feudal tinge to the scene, but the life of Chen Ming, the Sichuan-born supervisor, is hardly idyllic. He has been in P.N.G. for 18 months, working seven days a week, though he sees little point in holidays "because there's nothing to do here." By the time he finishes paying hefty deductions for his room and board, he makes less than he would at an equivalent job back home. But unemployment is rising in China, and Chen struggled for months to find alternative work back home. "It's not a good job, but what else can I do?" he asks, fanning himself with the strip of cardboard. "I have to eat and send money home."


Read it all.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RoyG » 30 Nov 2009 21:46

Work on Ladakh link-road stopped after Chinese Army objects

November 30, 2009 15:15 IST

The work on a link-road in Demchok in South-eastern Ladakh region has been stopped after objections were raised by the Chinese Army, barely months after repeated incursions by it in that area.

The incident took place at the village of Demchok on the Indian side of Line of Actual control, about 300 km south-east of Leh district headquarters, official sources said.

Work on the road, which was to connect two villages -- the last inhabitated areas on the Line of Actual Control on Sino-Indian border in Demchok -- was stopped during the last week of October, they said.

The road was being built under Centrally-sponsored National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme.

After construction of nearly 3.8 km of road, the Chinese Army sought a flag meeting with Indian Army [ Images ] and raised strong objections over the construction as they consider the area as disputed, officials said.

State Chief Minister Omar Abdullah [ Images ] said he has informed the Centre that the Chinese had raised objections over the road construction. "The Centre will take up the issue with the Chinese authorities," he said.

Cherring Dorjee, chief executive councillor of Laddakh Autonomous Council said, "About a month ago the village head of Domchu informed me that they are constructing a road upstream of Domchu-nalla, well within our boundary and then the Chinese Army came from the other side and stopped the work."

Dorjee said it was the same area where Chinese Army had sneaked in and painted rocks in their native script.

"Yes, it is the same area and the Chinese Army were actually coming to our side in the recent past. They have built a road on their side and we had no objection but this road is well within our boundary," Dorjee said.

Lok Sabha member from the area Hassan Khan said villagers informed him about the construction work being stopped after the completion of nearly half of the sanctioned length.

"The villagers have asked the district authorities, the executing agencies and the deputy commissioner to intervene in the matter," he said.

Deputy Commissioner Ajit Kumar Sahu had visited the area and submitted his report to the state government and submitted a report to the chief minister.

The state government had planned construction of seven link-roads in Niyoma and Damchok areas to increase connectivity and provide job opportunity to the people of this remote and treacherous mountain region, which is close to the LAC. The road was the first such link between T-Point and CNN-Point.

Union Minister of State for Defence Pallam Raju said the Centre would inquire into the matter.

"We will inquire into the matter. But, you know where the whole problem arises, in the different perception, on the actual border. That is why it is possibly been stopped. We will look into the matter," he said.

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/nov/ ... bjects.htm

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RamaY » 30 Nov 2009 21:49

"Yes, it is the same area and the Chinese Army were actually coming to our side in the recent past. They have built a road on their side and we had no objection but this road is well within our boundary," Dorjee said.


Yet, the stopped the construction?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 30 Nov 2009 22:03

I hope its just for psyops to whip up angry public and political opinion and call up some reinforcements like a couple of ZSU23-4 vehicles to 'oversee' the area.

seems to have roused a fair amt of anger here and on TV :twisted: to me it
seems like some of the 'games' GOI plays with khan, leaking news to the media and letting the khan know if they do this, their domestic support constituency gets undercut in public opinion.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Bade » 30 Nov 2009 22:50

That south eastern part of Ladakh is where Indian Inst of Astrophysics have their latest observatories built and so do tifr. So it is an important sector to keep and improve livability.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 30 Nov 2009 23:27

does astrophysics attract any pyt's? that instt is not too far from my home...

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Bade » 30 Nov 2009 23:38

would you find pyts volunteering to go to faraway places with hardship when plenty of comfy alternatives exist in salubrious bengaluru....

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby AdityaM » 30 Nov 2009 23:53

hope its not posted before:
Workers of the World vs. China Inc.

In the capital Port Moresby, my driver announces that if a gang to evict Chinese from P.N.G. is formed, he will be the first to join. "I will sharpen my bush knife and chop 10 or 20 heads," he says.

ramana
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby ramana » 01 Dec 2009 03:31

Dated material about one year old.

LinK:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080511/edit.htm#2

China – in numbers
by Simon Usborne

30,000: The expected number of Chinese MBA graduates in 2008. The number in 1998: 0


5.7 million: Students graduated from Chinese universities in 2007 (compared with 270,000 in 1977)

30: Number of nuclear power plants being built in China

500: The number of coal-fired power plants China plans to build in the next decade

10 million: The estimated number of Chinese people who have no electricity

97: New airports to be built in the next 12 years, bringing the total number to 244 by 2020

540 million: Number of mobile phone users in China, with an increase of 44 million in the past six months

180: The number of foreign press correspondents arrested or harassed in 2007

160: Cities in China with populations that exceed a million. In the USA there are nine; in the UK just two

21 million: The number of Chinese-made toys recalled last year by the US toy company Mattel

0: Miles of motorway in 1988

30,000: Miles of motorway today

6.3 million: The number of passenger cars registered in 2007 (compared with 2.3 million in 2004). More than 1,000 new private cars hit the roads every day in Beijing alone

68: The number of crimes thought to be punishable by death in China, including non-violent offences such as tax fraud, embezzlement and the taking of bribes

1.3 billion: China’s population. The country accounts for one in five people in the world

400 million: The estimated number of births prevented by China’s one-child policy, introduced in 1979

22: The number of suicides per 100,000 people, about 50 per cent higher than the global average. Suicide is the fifth most common cause of death in China, and the first among people aged between 20 and 35

700,000: The number of people living with HIV or Aids in China. The UN has warned China it could have 10 million cases by 2010 unless action is taken

45 billion: Estimated number of chopsticks China produces every year, the majority of them disposable. In 2006, Beijing introduced a five per cent tax on disposable wooden chopsticks in an attempt to help save the country’s forests

30: The number of different animal penises on the menu at Guolizhuang, Beijing’s ‘penis emporium’. A yak’s costs about £15, while a tiger’s (which must be pre-ordered) will set you back £3,000

By arrangement with The Independent

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby NRao » 01 Dec 2009 07:40

Just watched "China's Raging Sands" (google and you will get tons of info about it). Apparently China has a huge problem with Desertification!!!

They claim that some 25+% is already a desert or very, very close to it. Major cities such as Beijing are under threat - the desert is some 40 miles away. And sand storms that rage have dropped tons (some as much as 250,000 tons) of sand all the way south, to Japan and in a few instances all the way to the US!!!

Some 140,000 sq miles are converted every year. Their bread basket is under threat.

Seems like a very, very bad situation.


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