People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 01 Dec 2009 13:43

they will have to defend the ramparts along the yangzi and N-S the grand canal. much of northern china was a semi-desert and good for grazing only since millenia.
add to that brutal industrial activity.

it was southern china along the yangzi that filled their bellies with rice. Sichuan esp is one of the most fertile agriculturally and minerals wise. thats where the 3 gorges dam is also present. main cities - chengdu and chongquing iirc.

meantime.

RAW warns: China building 27 airstrips in Tibet

Posted On: 01-Dec-2009 12:23:17
'China building airstrips in Tibet'

New Delhi: The China and India relationship are again under scanner as according to Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India’s premier intelligence agency reports,China is in the making of around 27 airbase in Tibet which it can be using against India.

Recently, China was raising objections over construction of a rural road in Ladakh region, it has now been revealed that the Chinese army is simultaneously building and repairing 27 airstrops in theTibet region. Media reports also said that Beijing has also built several launch pads for nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles in the region.

According to a senior offical,“Many of these 27 military airstrips have been newly built. Others which have been expanded too are seeing increased Chinese activities. Like the intermediate range missiles stationed in the Delingha region, these airfields can be of strategic use forChina only against India.”Its is for sure that these airbases will give China an edge in the event of a war as they would allow sustained combat operations by PLA fighters over all of northern India and strike key cities.

As per the government sources first delegation of PLA’s deputy chief, Gen Gezen-Feng, the three service chiefs and defence secretary will soon have a meeting with Defence Minister A K Antony on the issue.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 01 Dec 2009 13:49

estimates on the web indicate PRC has a inventory of 1000 missiles between M9, M11 and M15 which is like 200km-600km band.
some of these under new names are also given to Pak with the manufacturing plants.

Assuming they want to keep 50% of these as 'powder dry' in reserve against taiwan
and russia, one can expect a barrage of 500 missiles during a 2-3 week border war.

I am not counting their HN-x LACM.

for major airbases like Leh or Tezpur, one can surely expect multiple missile attacks
spread throughout the day to try and render them unsafe and inoperable on a extended basis.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby wrdos » 01 Dec 2009 14:19

Your knowledge about China is too old, you are referring to facts of nearly 100 years old.

Northeast China (Manchuria) is the current largest area with spare food to feed the country, not Sichuan anymore. North and South China have similar population and also similar GDP. Instead of North-South, West-East comparsion is used as poor-rich in China.

Singha wrote:they will have to defend the ramparts along the yangzi and N-S the grand canal. much of northern china was a semi-desert and good for grazing only since millenia.
add to that brutal industrial activity.

it was southern china along the yangzi that filled their bellies with rice. Sichuan esp is one of the most fertile agriculturally and minerals wise. thats where the 3 gorges dam is also present. main cities - chengdu and chongquing iirc.

meantime.

RAW warns: China building 27 airstrips in Tibet

Posted On: 01-Dec-2009 12:23:17
'China building airstrips in Tibet'

New Delhi: The China and India relationship are again under scanner as according to Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India’s premier intelligence agency reports,China is in the making of around 27 airbase in Tibet which it can be using against India.

Recently, China was raising objections over construction of a rural road in Ladakh region, it has now been revealed that the Chinese army is simultaneously building and repairing 27 airstrops in theTibet region. Media reports also said that Beijing has also built several launch pads for nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles in the region.

According to a senior offical,“Many of these 27 military airstrips have been newly built. Others which have been expanded too are seeing increased Chinese activities. Like the intermediate range missiles stationed in the Delingha region, these airfields can be of strategic use forChina only against India.”Its is for sure that these airbases will give China an edge in the event of a war as they would allow sustained combat operations by PLA fighters over all of northern India and strike key cities.

As per the government sources first delegation of PLA’s deputy chief, Gen Gezen-Feng, the three service chiefs and defence secretary will soon have a meeting with Defence Minister A K Antony on the issue.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 01 Dec 2009 14:23

dont worry...give it enough time and manchuria will also desertify.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby ramana » 01 Dec 2009 23:26

We need to understand what all this build up means.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby harbans » 01 Dec 2009 23:50

"China has a dispute with India on the border issue. The two sides should work together to ensure peace and stability in the border area until the pending dispute is resolved," Qin Gang, the foreign ministry spokesman said at the regular briefing.


China has a dispute with India on the border issue

Slowly India has to realize and tell we too indeed have a dispute. And thats North Tibet, Kailash and Mansarover. So we should issue a statement which will be to this effect..

"India has a dispute with China on the Tibet issue. The two sides should work together to ensure peace and stability in the border area until the pending dispute is resolved," , the foreign ministry spokesman said at the regular briefing.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 02 Dec 2009 10:25

Looks like they are getting ready for an invasion.
They have probably seen the writing on the wall where their credit to US and overcapacity in economy is concerned.
We'd better pull our bootstraps up and get ready - npt just for a war but also to destroy other areas of their strength across the world

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Victor » 02 Dec 2009 11:48

ramana wrote:We need to understand what all this build up means.

Similar airfields have dotted northern Burma which has sparse population. If we look at the map it can only mean that China is planning to cut off the Northeast, merge it with bangladesh and get access to the Bay of Bengal from both Tibet and Burma. Tawang may be the trigger. I don't see what India can do about it.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Ananya » 02 Dec 2009 19:51

it is now or never for PRC as by 2013 our BDM would be active and we would be out of the RND mode , the missile situation today is very week. i would expect around middle of 2010 and 2011 mid.

They already know Political opposition is weak and no sessious succession after MMS as there would be chaos for some time

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 02 Dec 2009 22:07

Can some map genius on this forum actually create a map of India which includes Tibet (all of it, not just the moth eaten affair they have created).
Carve out Xinjiang as a separate nation
Then we can send this to Google and other map players.
TWO can tango

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 02 Dec 2009 22:28

Can we merge the PRC thread with this one pls

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 02 Dec 2009 22:30

Jarita wrote:Can we merge the PRC thread with this one pls

which PRC thread ? link please.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 02 Dec 2009 22:34

There is a sep PRC thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2093

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Rahul M » 02 Dec 2009 22:50

thanks. that thread has been locked.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Prasanth » 03 Dec 2009 07:47

Singha wrote:dont worry...give it enough time and manchuria will also desertify.


I don't think hoping for an environmental catastrophe in another country is wise. Let's defeat them economically and militarily. The Manchurian area is quite fertile and safe from desertification, the dangerous areas is the Inner Mongolian and Loess plateau areas. China's bread basket is not just in the south; it includes the North in the Yellow River delta.

We too have serious desertification near Gujarat and Punjab, and it is dangerous too. India and China will be the most water deficient countries in the world by 2025 due to population. I sometimes wonder if we really need to start controlling our population.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 03 Dec 2009 08:32

Yup. We do need to recover lost territories.
Population control will help as will population export

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby NRao » 03 Dec 2009 08:45

Prasanth wrote:I don't think hoping for an environmental catastrophe in another country is wise. Let's defeat them economically and militarily. The Manchurian area is quite fertile and safe from desertification, the dangerous areas is the Inner Mongolian and Loess plateau areas. China's bread basket is not just in the south; it includes the North in the Yellow River delta.

We too have serious desertification near Gujarat and Punjab, and it is dangerous too. India and China will be the most water deficient countries in the world by 2025 due to population. I sometimes wonder if we really need to start controlling our population.


From reports (on TV) the situation in China (based on Chinese reports) is very bad. And, it is NOT due to expansion of the well known deserts in China, but solely due to over grazing, leading to lack of prairie land, loss of top soil and thus "desert". They stated that the sand storms in their capital was from such "deserts". The over grazing is due to a need to produce more food for an ever growing population. And all this seems to have started in the 50s - not a recent trend, nor a result of the current or recent government policies.

The reason (per reports) that the situation will get worse is that they do not have hopes of recovering what they have lost to grazing. Note that this has nothing to do with their traditional and well known (three?) deserts.

WRT India I am not sure the problem is anywhere close - that is related to over grazing. I suspect that India being more vegetarian this problem will not crop up. Also note that reports state that 25% of China is desert!!!!! Hard to believe, but ...........

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Prasanth » 03 Dec 2009 11:01

NRao wrote:
Prasanth wrote:I don't think hoping for an environmental catastrophe in another country is wise. Let's defeat them economically and militarily. The Manchurian area is quite fertile and safe from desertification, the dangerous areas is the Inner Mongolian and Loess plateau areas. China's bread basket is not just in the south; it includes the North in the Yellow River delta.

We too have serious desertification near Gujarat and Punjab, and it is dangerous too. India and China will be the most water deficient countries in the world by 2025 due to population. I sometimes wonder if we really need to start controlling our population.


From reports (on TV) the situation in China (based on Chinese reports) is very bad. And, it is NOT due to expansion of the well known deserts in China, but solely due to over grazing, leading to lack of prairie land, loss of top soil and thus "desert". They stated that the sand storms in their capital was from such "deserts". The over grazing is due to a need to produce more food for an ever growing population. And all this seems to have started in the 50s - not a recent trend, nor a result of the current or recent government policies.

The reason (per reports) that the situation will get worse is that they do not have hopes of recovering what they have lost to grazing. Note that this has nothing to do with their traditional and well known (three?) deserts.

WRT India I am not sure the problem is anywhere close - that is related to over grazing. I suspect that India being more vegetarian this problem will not crop up. Also note that reports state that 25% of China is desert!!!!! Hard to believe, but ...........


Firstly, it is due to expanding deserts propelled by overgrazing, Inner Mongolia and Northwest China borders a big desert. Inner Monglia is a grassland region next to a desert, when you overgraze, the desert expands. Sandstorms had been hitting Beijing millenias ago my friend, just that it was very very very rare. The Gobi desert blows sand to the Loess plateau that form some of the richest soil on earth. I have seen it man, they just need water and things can grow. I asked the tour guide once how the heck things grow in such an arid land, they told me it just need water. That's why 40% of China's fertile land is in the north but only 7% of the water and they are building one giant water transfer project to the North from the South. The Chinese civilization was founded on these soils. The Yangtze basin in the South is one of the largest water resource on earth and holds almost 70% of China's water. Another thing, they are gonna siphon the Brahamputra too, it will affect us too

I am not saying their desertification is not bad, I am just saying both of us have a serious problem and we shouldn't hope they falter in their effort. Western China had always been desert and it is a large chunk of their land, 25% is about right, but just like Saudi, this sand is full of oil, I have a feeling beneath Rajashtan, there is oil too. Anyway, I think you have never been to the desert regions in India.

Image

Image

Check this out>
http://www.unep.org/geo/geo3/english/fig75.htm
http://earthtrends.wri.org/updates/node/43

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Dhiman » 03 Dec 2009 11:34

Prasanth wrote:I am not saying their desertification is not bad, I am just saying both of us have a serious problem and we shouldn't hope they falter in their effort. Western China had always been desert and it is a large chunk of their land, 25% is about right, but just like Saudi, this sand is full of oil, I have a feeling beneath Rajashtan, there is oil too. Anyway, I think you have never been to the desert regions in India.


I recently made the mistake of complaining about dust in Delhi to a 65 year old relative who has grown up and lived most of his life in Delhi. He laughed and said "Things are much better now, when I was in school (50 years back), delhi used to be hit by sand storms every year so bad that you couldn't step out of the house."

It turns out our idots in the government weren't so idotic after all :mrgreen: . Soon after independence someone decided that Thar desert was a big piece of wasted land that could be turned green. So they started building a canal which was first called the Rajasthan canal and then renamed to "Indira Gandhi Canal" in 1984. Although one seldom hears about Rajasthan canal and "greenification of Thar" in news anymore, these items used to be regurgitated in the news regularly in 1970s and 80s.

As a result today, we don't have dust storms in Delhi anymore and parts of that desert actually have greenification problems these days. From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indira_Gandhi_Canal):

Its construction started on the 31st March,1958, inaugurated by then Home Minister Govind Ballabh Pant]. It was built with the aim of converting part of the Thar desert from wasteland to agriculturally productive land.

After the construction of the Indira Gandhi Canal, irrigation facilities were available over an area of 6770 km² in Jaisalmer district and 37 km² in Barmer district. Irrigation had already been provided in an area of 3670 km² in Jaisalmer district. The canal has transformed the barren deserts of this district into rich and lush fields. Crops of mustard, cotton, and wheat now flourish in this semi-arid western region replacing the sand there previously.

The Indira Gandhi Canal is a major step in reclaiming the Thar Desert and checking desertification of fertile areas. There is a planting programme for greening the desert in areas near the Indira Gandhi Canal which was started in 1965.

The excessive irrigation and intensification of agriculture over the years has caused environmental degradation and creation of new wastelands. There have been problems with water-logging caused by excessive irrigation, seepage from canals and poor drainage. :rotfl: These factors produced a rise in the water table, increased salinity and finally submergence of the land. (more greenification problems in desert :rotfl: ) These problems have been exacerbated by the cultivation of water intensive cash crops such as wheat and rice. ( waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, :(( I want my desert back)


Note: no pun or judgement intended towards Chinese desertification or current water shortage issues in Delhi.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Javee » 03 Dec 2009 21:02

A court in China's Xinjiang region has sentenced five people to death for murder and other crimes over deadly ethnic riots in July, state media said. Two other people were sentenced to life imprisonment, Xinhua news agency said.

Nine people were executed last month over the riots in which nearly 200 people were killed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8392460.stm

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby ramana » 03 Dec 2009 22:13

Singha wrote:they will have to defend the ramparts along the yangzi and N-S the grand canal. much of northern china was a semi-desert and good for grazing only since millenia.
add to that brutal industrial activity.

it was southern china along the yangzi that filled their bellies with rice. Sichuan esp is one of the most fertile agriculturally and minerals wise. thats where the 3 gorges dam is also present. main cities - chengdu and chongquing iirc.

meantime.

RAW warns: China building 27 airstrips in Tibet

Posted On: 01-Dec-2009 12:23:17
'China building airstrips in Tibet'

New Delhi: The China and India relationship are again under scanner as according to Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India’s premier intelligence agency reports,China is in the making of around 27 airbase in Tibet which it can be using against India.

Recently, China was raising objections over construction of a rural road in Ladakh region, it has now been revealed that the Chinese army is simultaneously building and repairing 27 airstrops in theTibet region. Media reports also said that Beijing has also built several launch pads for nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles in the region.

According to a senior offical,“Many of these 27 military airstrips have been newly built. Others which have been expanded too are seeing increased Chinese activities. Like the intermediate range missiles stationed in the Delingha region, these airfields can be of strategic use forChina only against India.”Its is for sure that these airbases will give China an edge in the event of a war as they would allow sustained combat operations by PLA fighters over all of northern India and strike key cities.

As per the government sources first delegation of PLA’s deputy chief, Gen Gezen-Feng, the three service chiefs and defence secretary will soon have a meeting with Defence Minister A K Antony on the issue.



To me it shows the PRC is panicing. Let me put it in context. PRC had ~ 4 major airbases in Tibet and in the 80s IAF could achieve air dominance in 72 hours over Tibet. Checkerboard etc.

Now PRC is activating and building new airstrips and placing their short range missiles. The air strips are not only for dispersal of their airplanes but also to land troops for reinforcements. Most of their strategic arsenal is short and medium range missiles. Now why would you do this if you are teh super power oa Asia with the weak large neighbor.

I think they fear loss of Tibet and beyond if something happens.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Dec 2009 22:33

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KL04Ad01.html


A fine clear-sighted analysis.

Only India needs to have a vision beyond American involvement in Afghanistan i.e. it needs to outsource dealing with Pakistan to Afghanistan.
Last edited by sanjaykumar on 03 Dec 2009 23:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby ramana » 03 Dec 2009 23:24

sanjaykumar, Again confirms that PRC is worried as I alluded above.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby sanjaykumar » 03 Dec 2009 23:35

They rightly suspect something nefarious in the Indo-US equation, Ombaba may not have much ardour for India but his strategists and generals know there is no equivalent counterweight than India. America is not going to abdicate its preeminence without a fight. India is only playing China to the US's dealings with the CCCP. China knows how effective American support can be. After all the factories run only on American orders, orders that can evaporate with one Washington Post editorial.


Even with an Indian economy that is less weak (I will not call it strong), they see India's position hardening with increasingly negative domestic press of China. The Indians are banking on the economic performance (potential and likely $4 trillion economy in 2020) and their military assetes in the meantime. Agni, Shourya and Arihant are doing their jobs-they need never be fired. China has serious financial problems in addition to potentially catastrophic ethnic freedom struggles-it is not as sound as India. Unbelievable as that may appear.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Singha » 04 Dec 2009 00:43

sentinelassam.com

No more ‘Made in China’ in Arunachal


Staff Reporter

ITANAGAR, Dec2: Irked to no bounds by China’s ‘designs’ on Arunachal Pradesh, the All Arunachal Pradesh Students Union (AAPSU) today went a step further in displaying its angst over the neighborly giant. In an extreme decision, the apex students’ body of the State has decided to ban use and sale of all Chinese goods and commodities in the State within a week.

Addressing the media here today, AAPSU President Takam Tatung informed that an ultimatum would be served to all concerned to stop use and boycott all ‘Made in China’ goods and commodities starting tomorrow. Sending warning signals, Tatung affirmed that the Union would ensure that every one – consumers as well as traders – implements the ban in full after the week’s deadline.

AAPSU termed its move as an economic blockade of China for its aggressive overtures on the State and the country, which is being met with a conspicuous silence from the Centre. It urged the people to comply with the ban, stating that it was a matter of national security and claimed that defying it would amount to anti-national act.

Coming heavily on the Centre’s soft stand on the Chinese move to halt road constructions in Demchok village in south-eastern Ladakh region by terming it as a disputed area, Tatung said that AAPSU will get in touch with all Himalayan states who share the Mc Mohan line to give a collective voice against the Centre’s compromising stand against China.

“National leaders come to the State only to dole out goodies but never make a strong statement on national security involving the Chinese. Recent visit of Rahul Gandhi has illustrated the fact as he spoke on the NSUI membership drive but kept silent on China,” Tatung reminded.

On AAPSU’s stand against the NSUI membership drive, Tatung said that the students’ bodies of the State have been hurt by the ‘remarks’ of the NSUI national general secretary Shahnawaz Choudhry on AAPSU.

Meanwhile, Union vice president Nabam Tamar regretted that in the current session of the Parliament no national leader had raised the Chinese issue, which, he claimed, proves the Centre’s insincerity to the issue.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby vera_k » 04 Dec 2009 00:52

ramana wrote:To me it shows the PRC is panicing. Let me put it in context. PRC had ~ 4 major airbases in Tibet and in the 80s IAF could achieve air dominance in 72 hours over Tibet. Checkerboard etc.


IIRC, Talbott's Engaging India mentioned that the PRC angst over the 1998 tests was because they were weak in Tibet. Have things gotten worse for the Chinese since then?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby NRao » 04 Dec 2009 01:55

Firstly, it is due to expanding deserts propelled by overgrazing, Inner Mongolia and Northwest China borders a big desert. Inner Monglia is a grassland region next to a desert, when you overgraze, the desert expands. Sandstorms had been hitting Beijing millenias ago my friend, just that it was very very very rare. The Gobi desert blows sand to the Loess plateau that form some of the richest soil on earth. I have seen it man, they just need water and things can grow. I asked the tour guide once how the heck things grow in such an arid land, they told me it just need water. That's why 40% of China's fertile land is in the north but only 7% of the water and they are building one giant water transfer project to the North from the South. The Chinese civilization was founded on these soils. The Yangtze basin in the South is one of the largest water resource on earth and holds almost 70% of China's water. Another thing, they are gonna siphon the Brahamputra too, it will affect us too


I have no quarrel with you, but then (it seems to me) I have to decide between you, your guide and about 15 Chinese and Japanese scientists. Sorry about the bias.

On need-water-to-regrow, per these very scientists that will be hard to do ................................. reason is very simple - the top soil is gone (which is the reason for these new deserts). They have tried to regrow in some regions, but the animals have eaten their projects. With the populations increasing every year that will add to the challenge. BUT - the fact still remains, there is no top soil for the water to help them out - the erosion has removed the top soil and has actually reached the soil where there are more pebbles and stone - which is being ground into sand by the winds. (There was a claim that in one town some 250 thousand tons of sand was deposited in a day!!!!! Amazing. IF that is true, no amount of water can restore the ballance.)

My thinking is chicom NEEDS to become vegies. BUT even then it will take a few decades to recover that much land.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby NRao » 04 Dec 2009 02:09

I think they fear loss of Tibet and beyond if something happens.


AND inability to use strategic assets too? Just a question.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby ramana » 04 Dec 2009 02:11

NRao wrote:
I think they fear loss of Tibet and beyond if something happens.


AND inability to use strategic assets too? Just a question.


No they will be forced to use them as they cant prevent it otherwise. I said this in many PRC scenario threads.
My beef/complaint with the deterrent thread is escalation control. Its not there.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Lilo » 04 Dec 2009 02:33



ramana wrote:sanjaykumar, Again confirms that PRC is worried as I alluded above.


This writer with the pen name "Peter Lee" runs a blog http://chinamatters.blogspot.com

For example below article gives an insight into his "real" opinion and intention behind the asia times article.

http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2009/1 ... os-in.html

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby sanjaykumar » 04 Dec 2009 04:41

Thanks for the reference. Wonder what his antecedents are?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 04 Dec 2009 06:29

sanjaykumar wrote:http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KL04Ad01.html


A fine clear-sighted analysis.


Choice excerpts :lol:

If Pakistan sinks into political and ethnic/religious chaos, China will lose the services of a capable, loyal and effective proxy - and India will benefit.


Really? Whuddathunkit, eh?

India's mischief-making along its borders has received little attention, perhaps because of the contrast between India's thriving democracy (especially when personified by the cuddly and blandly accommodating Manmohan Singh and not represented by the relentlessly Hindu-chauvinist and confrontational Bharatiya Janata Party) and China's one-party communist rule and harsh repression of Tibetan and Uighur aspirations.

In this context, it is ironic that, while the post-Mao Zedong Chinese communist regime has largely kept to its economic and internal security program, with the exception of the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979, India, the world's largest democracy, has, like the world's greatest democracy, the United States, shown an embarrassing tendency to involve itself in great-power scrapes in recent years.


Embarrassing, eh? To whom exactly?

And IMHO its downright absurd that the author implies Sri Hu Jintao and Sri Wen Jiabao are not as cute, cuddly or trust-inspiring as a turban-wearing bearded leader from a community known for its past martial prowess and reputation.....

Beyond fighting three wars with Pakistan, abetting the secession of East Pakistan and the creation of Bangladesh in 1971, stage-managing the annexation of Sikkim in 1975, engaging in non-stop interference in Nepalese affairs, rigging elections in 1987 and bloodily suppressing massive 2008 anti-Indian demonstrations in Kashmir, and inciting Tamil separatism in a conflict that contributed to 80,000 deaths in Sri Lanka, India has now entered into an alliance with the US that includes a deep involvement in Afghanistan. This is Pakistan's backyard, a border nation of China and a Muslim Central Asia that is way out of India's plausible cultural, economic and geostrategic bailiwick.

On the ethnically, politically and militarily complex border between China and India, the balance of forces and expectations is easily disturbed.


Indeed, how disturbing.

China - bedeviled by unhappy ethnic groups in the vast western and southern reaches of its country - prefers the status quo.
{Status quo indeed....gloriously exemplified by N-proliferation to a radical Muslim nation}

India - emboldened by its economic rise, Pakistan and China's vulnerabilities, and a de facto alliance with the United States - finds instability to its advantage.


Ekhanomic rise emboldens Yindia but not the one country that consistently shows growth rates higher than that of anyone else in the world in the past 15 yrs??

In addition to the destabilizing influence of the US effort in Afghanistan on Pakistan, China is also dealing with the reality of a more assertive and capable Indian presence on its Tibetan border in the contested areas of Arunachal Pradesh, facing off against New Delhi in a risky tussle for power in Nepal, and confronting the nagging issue of Aksai Chin, in the northwestern region of the Tibetan Plateau, and Kashmir.

In this context, Beijing is tempted to view New Delhi's continued restraint in not playing the "Tibet card" - declining to tolerate anti-Chinese agitation by militant groups in the Tibetan diaspora inside India - increasingly as a matter of tactics rather than conviction.


Really? Jai Ho.

It was probably no coincidence that at the same time the Dalai Lama paid a high-profile visit to Tawang, one of the exiled Tibetan spiritual leader's favorite monasteries in Arunachal Pradesh, China found it convenient to invite influential Kashmir separatist Mirwaiz Umar Farooq - also a religious leader affiliated with the largest mosque in Kashmir - to visit Beijing on a trip.

The development was significant in that troublemaking in Kashmir is traditionally the job of Pakistan, allegedly carried out by the ferocious mujahideen such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba (implicated in the Mumbai terror attacks of last November) who honed their bloody skills in Afghanistan under ISI sponsorship.

Beijing's new willingness to meddle directly in Kashmir issues was a message to India - which has adamantly opposed internationalization of the issue by the United Nations for decades and mounted a concerted and successful campaign to remove Kashmir from the brief of Richard Holbrooke, the Obama administration's designated AfPak fixer - that, despite the unwelcome fact that its Pakistan proxy is on the ropes, Beijing would not abandon its "Kashmir card".

The Kashmir issue will remain active as long as China worries about its southern borders. Given the structural dilemma of China's governance problems in Xinjiang and Tibet, a true equilibrium may never be reached.


Aha. Now it dawns why. No guarantee it will last only so long and no further. The problem with PRC is that it cannot be trusted to keep its word. Same goes for its proxies.

Indeed, plainspeak finally coming to cheena or what. Most welcome indeed.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby pgbhat » 04 Dec 2009 07:06

China and the world: public opinion and foreign policy
Of nine possible threats, it was non-traditional threats that most worried the Chinese people. ‘Environmental issues like climate change’ and ‘water and food shortages’ topped the list with 76% and 67% respectively saying they were a threat.
Fifty per cent of Chinese people said the United States posed a threat to China’s security, while only a slim majority (51%) said Japan did not pose a threat.
Larger majorities said India (60%), Russia (71%) and North Korea (81%) did not pose a threat. Of the five countries, the United States was considered the greatest threat to China’s security by one third (34%) of Chinese adults: only 14% said Japan and India posed the greatest threat.

Younger Chinese adults tended to be more likely than their elders to say China was receiving less respect than it deserved and that Japan and the United States posed a threat.

Image
Image

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 04 Dec 2009 07:08

They are working on creating the perception

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Re: Climate Talks and China

Postby SSridhar » 04 Dec 2009 09:03

China to back India's stance at Copenhagen
A strong statement from China.
Foreign Ministry spokesperson Qin Gang said China’s decision to set a voluntary carbon intensity target in no way suggested any change in its position ahead of the talks. He said China “understood India’s current situation,” and backed India’s position that any emissions reduction target would only be voluntary and based on national conditions.

Mr. Qin stressed that China’s target was “independent and voluntary.” “China and India both are developing countries and victims of climate change,” he said. “The two countries do not have obligations to binding emissions reduction targets. On climate change, both countries have same positions, same concerns and same demands.”

“We hope developed nations honour their commitments with actions,” Mr. Qin said. “Success of the [Copenhagen] meeting lies in if we can stick to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, the Kyoto Protocol and the mandate of the Bali Road Map. But if relevant parties do not honour their promises, then the Copenhagen meeting cannot succeed.”

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Jarita » 04 Dec 2009 11:04

With the Indian Army making statements such as this
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... ready.html

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Lilo » 04 Dec 2009 12:20

sanjaykumar wrote:Thanks for the reference. Wonder what his antecedents are?


He is a chinese agent planted in the mainstream media for peddling their propaganda under the garb of neutral journalism. In the atimes articles he has a go at everyone i.e USA , India , China , Pak, talibunnies ,uighurs ,tibetians for getting that "neutral" effect but his conclusions match chinese FPolicy stand to the T.

i even feel that this sockpuppet's name was choosen to suit western sensibilities. "Peter Lee" it falls under both American and Chinese naming conventions and is infact more western than chinese (had to go through a couple score of caucasian Peter Lees with few chinese --in google before i found this guys blog)

All in all a picture perfect psy-op by the dragon.

Hari Seldon wrote:
Aha. Now it dawns why. No guarantee it will last only so long and no further. The problem with PRC is that it cannot be trusted to keep its word. Same goes for its proxies.


Jarita wrote:They are working on creating the perception



Has any one checked out microsoft bing, the chinese verision has whole of arunachal being shown as undisputed part of PRC.

preparing its populance for that rudest possible shock when they find out that arunachal is actually a defacto part of india hain ji?

http://www.bing.com/mapindia/?mkt=en-cn

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RayC » 04 Dec 2009 12:29

Has any one checked out microsoft bing, the chinese verision has whole of arunachal being shown as undisputed part of PRC.



Where is the dispute?

It is ours!

Period!

Next they will claim Nalanda!!

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Prasanth » 04 Dec 2009 13:36

NRao wrote:[
I have no quarrel with you, but then (it seems to me) I have to decide between you, your guide and about 15 Chinese and Japanese scientists. Sorry about the bias.

On need-water-to-regrow, per these very scientists that will be hard to do ................................. reason is very simple - the top soil is gone (which is the reason for these new deserts). They have tried to regrow in some regions, but the animals have eaten their projects. With the populations increasing every year that will add to the challenge. BUT - the fact still remains, there is no top soil for the water to help them out - the erosion has removed the top soil and has actually reached the soil where there are more pebbles and stone - which is being ground into sand by the winds. (There was a claim that in one town some 250 thousand tons of sand was deposited in a day!!!!! Amazing. IF that is true, no amount of water can restore the ballance.)

My thinking is chicom NEEDS to become vegies. BUT even then it will take a few decades to recover that much land.


I don't know which 15 scientist you are talking about, but let me explain this to you, deserts CAN be reclaimed even without top soil, but it will take time. I have seen it with my own eyes in the Inner Mongolia deserts. The secret is water. The Israelis have done it and so did India in the Thar desert.

I think they first use somesort of fiber mat to bind the sand then use nitrogen binding weeds to create humus, but you need water for everything to work. Even the survival rate is not 100%, I think the survival rate is around 40%, it is still a tremendous feat, they have created the largest man made forest on earth, but the diversity is damn low and I heard they are reintroducing many species to create the biodiversity in these empty forests.

And their plan is pretty simple and it WILL affect India, get water from TIBET and south China. And yes population control.


If a country that puts in so much effort, time and money fail, how are we gonna solve our desertification problem? We have less water resource compared to China, and we take out more water from the ground compared to China. I think you should realise how severe our desertification problem is. And we don't control our population!!! :shock:

This is what i saw in Inner Mongolia>
Image

This is the North South Water Transfer viaduct. These people are crazy! They can build anything! I have been to their biggest dam on earth, their highest railway on earth (Tibet) where Westerners say it was impossible to build.

Image


In northern China as well as the mid-western U.S., ancient dust storm deposits known as loess are highly fertile soils, but they are also a significant source of contemporary dust storms when soil-securing vegetation is disturbed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_storm

Loess tends to develop into highly rich soils. Under appropriate climatic conditions it is some of the most agriculturally productive terrain in the world.[9]

Soils underlain by loess tend to be excessively drained. The fine grains weather rapidly due to their large surface area making soils derived from loess very rich. One theory states that the fertility of loess soils is due largely to electron exchange capacity (the ability of plants to absorb nutrients from the soil) and porosity (the air-filled space in the soil). The fertility of Loess is not due to organic matter content, which tends to be rather low unlike tropical soils, which derive their fertility almost wholly from organic matter.


Top soil has nothing to do with it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loess
Last edited by Prasanth on 04 Dec 2009 17:48, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Lilo » 04 Dec 2009 16:16

RayC wrote:
Has any one checked out microsoft bing, the chinese verision has whole of arunachal being shown as undisputed part of PRC.



Where is the dispute?

It is ours!

Period!

Next they will claim Nalanda!!


The commies in PRC will repeat this lie a zillion times to their populance till it becomes an undisputed truth .

and by which time that 34% of the survey will become 90%

we'll then behold the fascist republic of china raring to use the fruits from its "peaceful rise".


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