People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

[RajeshA]

So while PRC continues its sabre rattling, we are definitely doing *nothing* to improve our position.

So we need more saber rattling from PRC!

[derkonig]

^^^
Nothing will change until the govt. changes, heck, the led almy can appear on MMS's doorstep & yet he will continue his beauty sleep.

[RajeshA]

^^^
Nothing will change until the govt. changes, heck, the led almy can appear on MMS's doorstep & yet he will continue his beauty sleep.

Try tickling a terrorist!

[krisna]

considering the whole picture I am reminded of my own story.
When on a visit to sholavaram to see the Narasimham temple, I was asked to take a stick while climbing the steps because of monkeys menace.
While climbing the steps, monkeys keep coming at you and try to take stuff from you-- flowers/fruits etc.
Particularly vulnerable were the urban women folks who only scream and run. the monkeys follow them mercilessly. sometimes they succeed and snatch the fruits etc. Only the sturdier folks(usually males and some females also -- particularly rural folks and those living there) carry sticks and ward off successfully those attacks.The monkeys are kept at bay, monkeys follow them but never come near a mard having a danda.
It is a battle between the mard(with a danda) and the monkeys. the monkeys never give up. So the mard has to keep always the danda. It does not matter how strong the mard is , the danda is sufficient for the period of the temple visit.

The point is very obvious here---
If India behaves like the urban women folk, the results are very clear and it behaves like the mard with a danda the results are clear.

[SSridhar]

An excellent Comment from IDSA by Prashant Kumar Singh

China's denial of visa, not so incomprehensible
Excerpts

China is not comfortable with sharing space with India in international politics. It has been evident in its attitude towards India’s entry into various international forums like East Asia Summit and Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO). It very much longs for a multipolar world, though it also wants Asia to be unipolar under its leadership. Its ultimate policy goal towards India is to tie it down within South Asia. Hence, it is not interested in resolving the lingering border problem between the two countries. It can afford to delay the resolution of this problem as the status quo is in its favour. It wants to keep the territorial dispute alive and thereby India pre-occupied with these problems.

Let us not over-emphasize the role trade can play in smoothening the relationship between the two countries. Trade cannot be a solution to everything especially when problems basically lie on the strategic plane. In this situation, trade rivalry can easily spill over into the political realm. In the same way that China appears to be considering India’s rise detrimental to its own global ambitions, there is every possibility that global trade can become a new turf war between the two countries in future. The only policy prescription for India is that when China becomes restive against India, it should find India well-prepared.{Absolutely}

Indian policy must be based on two things tactically: one, if China behaves properly with us, we do the same and if China behaves improperly, we do not waste any time in returning the favour. All the while, we continue to deepen our political, economic and multilateral relationships with them. Military exchanges and contacts, except in the border region, must cool off for the time being. Second, we must pro actively cultivate closer relationship with countries that border China almost all of which have some territorial dispute or the other with that country, especially Taiwan. Frequent visits of IN to ports of these countries and South China Sea, already occurring, must be strengthened by joint exercises with those countries. Joint patrolling of the Malacca Straits with Indonesian, Malaysian & Singaporean navies must be made a frequent affair. We must be seen even dithering a bit on Tibet now as the Chinese are doing in the case of Sikkim. Nepal must be secured within our grasp, by hook or by crook.

[Suraj]

So far from what I can see, the public response has been reactionary as it should be under a democratic system; while the, government reaction has by-and-large always been measured (sometimes too measured and not going far enough).

What does a democratic system have to do with being proactive or reactive to geopolitical moves ? Decisions and actions on these matters are not made by national referendum - we elect people who are given the authority to do what is best in national interests. My statement is that it is not in our interests to either be reactive or overly emotional about it,

I see the Chinese border incursion policy no different from the Russian (despite years of 'friendship') weaseling over the prices of various arms deals, or the US consistently harming out interests via TSP. None of these countries are going to give us a clear path to our own rise. Each will use it to stop us, feed off us, or for that matter, anything they can get away with.

All these are clinical policy implementations in action; sitting about bemoaning the policy itself gains us nothing - it's the epitome of a useless reaction. In the Chinese case it's as straightforward as the border regiments being given orders to repeatedly test our defenses, and expand slowly if given leeway, back off if not, and otherwise build cartographic leverage on their terms. A reactive posture means nothing ever happens on our terms, which will always be disadvantageous.

[TonyMontana]

China crossing the line (A. Pradesh, LOC that we currently consider our border ) is the clear intent to harm us and we use the nuclear...(It doesn't have to be a threat to our existence). make the message loud and clear. So there are no surprises. At least we need to start the dialogue. A few good editorial on this option would be good.

The nuclear option is not just another tactical weapon. No nuclear weapons has been used since world war 2. I just don't think a lot of people know what it really means to use nuclear weapons. You can't make the line that easy to cross. I think this warrents serious descussion. Maybe in a different thread.

Pakistan has made it clear their threshold that we cannot cross... we make our threashold clear to China. The problem is, our leadership has been wishywashy and not made our threshold clear., This wishwashyness is more dangerous than anything else.

And what would the indian threshold be? If one PLA boot set foot on india soil do you
1) limited tactical nuke on indian soil?
2) limited tactical nuke on chinese soil?
3) full scale nuclear warfare?

Or would you rather wait and see if conventional indian military can handle it? How many days do you give to the IA? Or do you draw a line and say if PLA gets within 200km of india we use nuke? What if the PLA stops at 199km?

BTW..do you really own a saiga-12? I would really be impressed if you do.
And don't snicker at my G27. Its for my CCW and .40S&W Jacketed Hollow Point is nothing to be shy about.

Yes, I do. And a bunch of rifles. Just giving you shit about the G27. My friend has one too.

[TonyMontana]

the consequnces of breaking NFU policy will in no way balance anything between India and China.

1.) Improving trade and mutual interdependence
2.) Enhacing military deterrant
3.) Keeping Tibet and Dalai Lama important
4.) Aligning with the United States to some extent
5.) Keeping up the economic growth at all costs
6.) Losing TSP

China will do anything and everything to get a reaction from India which it can use to undermine India and depict it as a nation of paranoid leaders who has an inferiority complex wrt China.

True words of wisdom.

[TonyMontana]

We simply do not have the conventional superiority or the strategic depth (Tibet) vis a vis China. So in a conventional war, its a high probability that we are at a severe disadvantage. So to not use the option of first use is almost surrendering to China. The no first use favors China and puts India at a severe disadvantage.

That's a big leap in logic there.

Talking about changing our nuclear First Use posture (Editorials) alone may prevent China from provoking us further.

No this will not. Basically you're saying if you threaten the existance of the Chinese people then they will leave you alone. Look at world war 2. This idea does not work. The Blitz only made the English more pissed off. So is the raid on Germany. No one ever backs down from just threats. You have to actively demonstrate your ability to exterminate. ie Japan.

So what would you do if China calls your bluff? 200 PLA soldiers are now dug in on Indian soil. Do you exterminate the Chinese at that point? If you don't, how does that make you look?

[TonyMontana]

Re: Sino-Indian war, I find the whole topic meaningless, unless someone can explain what the specific goals of such a war are to the instigator, and what the intended extent of hostilities is. War, after all, is a calibrated military action in pursuit of particular goals.

This need to be made a sticky.

[TonyMontana]

All these are clinical policy implementations in action; sitting about bemoaning the policy itself gains us nothing - it's the epitome of a useless reaction. In the Chinese case it's as straightforward as the border regiments being given orders to repeatedly test our defenses, and expand slowly if given leeway, back off if not, and otherwise build cartographic leverage on their terms.

This! The Chinese are not coming south.

[Sanjay M]

Chinese Hospital Ship “Peace Ark” Sets Sail For Africa

[svinayak]

X post

Last few weeks have been hectic all round china (not in order).
1) News about US power games around vietnam/SoKo.
2) News about chinese illegal encroachment in POK.
3)Visa issues started by chinese.
4)chinese angering her neighbours by claiming the islands and seas etc.
5) NoKo torpedoing soko ship.
6) chinese anger at uncle about weapons sales.

what is happening to dlagon. pissing off off everyone.

This is to show that PRC is getting encircled. Reaction of PLA and PRC leadership is being tested and studied. It is studied every qtr or every 6 mths with such incidents so that no funny business is being planned.

[putnanja]

All these are clinical policy implementations in action; sitting about bemoaning the policy itself gains us nothing - it's the epitome of a useless reaction. In the Chinese case it's as straightforward as the border regiments being given orders to repeatedly test our defenses, and expand slowly if given leeway, back off if not, and otherwise build cartographic leverage on their terms. A reactive posture means nothing ever happens on our terms, which will always be disadvantageous.

True, but the main angst here is that India is always being reactive. A few steps by India like having Taiwan open up consulates in India etc will go a long way. Many countries have diplomatic relations with Taiwan, so that should be a plan of action. Selling arms to Taiwan is another, and if China protests, tell them to stop arms to Pakistan.

There have been reports of New Delhi telling the army to not be aggressive in arunachal/Ladakh even if China is. China too would be on guard if India too was a bit aggressive in defending its priorities.

Unfortunately, most of India's actions seems reactive and that is what causes the emotional responses.

[naren]

considering the whole picture I am reminded of my own story.
When on a visit to sholavaram to see the Narasimham temple, I was asked to take a stick while climbing the steps because of monkeys menace.
While climbing the steps, monkeys keep coming at you and try to take stuff from you-- flowers/fruits etc.
Particularly vulnerable were the urban women folks who only scream and run. the monkeys follow them mercilessly. sometimes they succeed and snatch the fruits etc. Only the sturdier folks(usually males and some females also -- particularly rural folks and those living there) carry sticks and ward off successfully those attacks.The monkeys are kept at bay, monkeys follow them but never come near a mard having a danda.
It is a battle between the mard(with a danda) and the monkeys. the monkeys never give up. So the mard has to keep always the danda. It does not matter how strong the mard is , the danda is sufficient for the period of the temple visit.

The point is very obvious here---
If India behaves like the urban women folk, the results are very clear and it behaves like the mard with a danda the results are clear.

True words of wisdom sire.

Though, when moi was young, I did whack lot of monkeys there, when it was totally uncalled for

Hear what Swami Vivekananda has to say:

Once when I was in Varanasi, I was passing through a place where there was a large tank of water on one side and a high wall on the other. It was in the grounds where there were many monkeys. The monkeys of Varanasi are huge brutes and are sometimes surly. They now took it into their heads not to allow me to pass through their street, so they howled and shrieked and clutched at my feet as I passed. As they pressed closer, I began to run, but the faster I ran, the faster came the monkeys and they began to bite at me. It seemed impossible to escape, but just then I met a stranger who called out to me, "Face the brutes." I turned and faced the monkeys, and they fell back and finally fled. That is a lesson for all life — face the terrible, face it boldly. Like the monkeys, the hardships of life fall back when we cease to flee before them. If we are ever to gain freedom, it must be by conquering nature, never by running away. Cowards never win victories. We have to fight fear and troubles and ignorance if we expect them to flee before us.

Src

[Karan Dixit]

Our nuclear weapons are there to dampen the Chinese spirit to use nukes against us. Chinese will not go nuclear over Tibet. But they will go nuclear if we do not have MAD capabilities and they find us deep inside Tibet.

[TonyMontana]

Our nuclear weapons are there to dampen the Chinese spirit to use nukes against us. Chinese will not go nuclear over Tibet. But they will go nuclear if we do not have MAD capabilities and they find us deep inside Tibet.

So what you're saying is the chance of a nuclear exchange between India and China in the short to medium term is close to zero?

[Karan Dixit]

China will not go nuclear as long as we have capacity to go nuclear on them. That is it. If we do not have nukes then China will be very eager to use nukes. Keep in mind it is China not Pakistan which is the original nuclear saber rattler against India. Rajiv Gandhi was the prime minister of India back then, in 80s.

[Dhiman]

To be honest, I find all this poking and provoking from China, and our reactiveness very useful. Far more detrimental would be a China lulling us into thinking everything is hunky-dory and there is no need to consider China our enemy!

Sir,

My view is that that all this Chinese provoking and poking is a "reaction" in itself to GoI policies over last few years: stating that exchange of populated areas are non-negotiable for reaching any border agreement, developing a deeper strategic/nuclear relationship with US, Allowing Dalai Lama unrestricted acess and even meetings with MMS while Ombaba was sucessfully pressured by the Chinese to not meet Dalai Lama, Indian defence capabilities now being clearly developed to deal with China as opposed to Pakistan, and last but not the least our economic growth and its geopolitical consequences which has clearly been bothering Beijing even though in public they claim that they are out of our league.

So in my humble hypothesis (and I don't claim that this is necessarily correct), it is the Chinese that are being reactionary while we are implementing policy. All these tantrums (poking and provoking etc) are purely reactionary and meaningless in response to policy decisions that GoI has already taken and implemented for years now.

While the Chinese are expecting a reaction from GoI, what they are getting instead is the reaction of our sensationalist media while GoI is sweet talking them and reorienting our defense capability towards more China centric use rather than Pakistan centric use (just in case CCP goes berserk at some point).

So they can continue picking, poking, groping, and provoking as long as it is just that and nothing substantial, because currently all it means is that we must be doing something right and that they are jealous . However, once they get serious, we will have no choice, but to get serious ourselves until then we better be preparing as best as possible ....

[shyam]

Our nuclear weapons are there to dampen the Chinese spirit to use nukes against us. Chinese will not go nuclear over Tibet. But they will go nuclear if we do not have MAD capabilities and they find us deep inside Tibet.

If PRC is about to lose Tibet and if it doesn't use nukes, what is the whole purpose of keeping those expensive nukes?

[kmkraoind]

Re: Sino-Indian war, I find the whole topic meaningless, unless someone can explain what the specific goals of such a war are to the instigator, and what the intended extent of hostilities is. War, after all, is a calibrated military action in pursuit of particular goals.

May be I am nothing compared to stalwarts of this forum. After China got Independence and cultural revolution, probably they started to analyze their past histories and present status and measures to regain the lost clout/supremacy before Europeans conquered them.

What are the supremacy China enjoyed previously were:
1. Undisputed South East Asian and Eastern Asian power.
2. Rich cultural heritage and scientific knowledge respected throughout world (passed mainly through silk route)

What they now want from India.
1. Regarding Tibet
A. They want India stop pocking in Tibetan affairs and if possible expel the Holiness Dalai Lama and disband Tibetan exile govt.
B. To reclaim all Tibetan culture, they want Tawang, which is second holiest place in minds of Tibetan Buddhas.
C. To claim mastership of Sino-Tibetans and parts which India holds (Arunachal Pradesh and Leh).
2. To regain their lost cultural heritage.
A. To own tracts of old Silk route and a say in Hind Kush passage areas (read Central Asia, Afgan and Pakistan).
B. May be India can be powerful militarily, but enough to challenge Chinese supremacy in Asia.

With this singular aim, Huns are playing every trick in the book. IMO, once these are achieved, China will loose interest in its enmity towards India, but for India to loose its stand against Tibet and loosing Kashmir is a severe dent in its cradle of multicultural and multiethnicity, that is the crux of the problem.

[Nihat]

India, China talk to step up economic cooperation

[Philip]

I simply cannot understand why we have apologists and fifth -columnists in the UPA,even in the Congress party,who still want to molly-coddle China economically (telecom concessions despite security concerns,latest tender cancelled to allow Chinese firms to participate!,etc.) and diplommatically,when China issues "chit" visis,snubs our general,intrudes upon our territory,stealing parts of POK,insults us over AP & J&K's sovereignity,etc.etc.With apologies to Swami Vivekananda,there is another story about monkeys,the three who cannot hear,see,or speak. It sums up Dr.Singh and his team of simians who rule us!

[SSridhar]

Philip, in the case of Huawei, it was several Indian telecom companies themselves who pressurized the GoI to relax the ban. Ultimately, the political party that runs the government has to relent when there is a protest by a critical mass of cash-rich private companies because they fund the elections. Remember what happened earlier when IT companies such as Infosys et al tied down the Government citing that our economy will be impacted etc. Of course, for the Indian government, such a pressure is like manna because they can escape taking tough decisions under the rubric of economy. In a country such as PRC, it may not be possible, in spite of rampant corruption. In a country such as India where there is a woeful lack of accountability and woeful lack of strategic thinking and woeful lack of coordination among ministries which is the result of lack of strategic thinking, these things are quite possible. Added to that is the fact that when a nation is on a growth path, policies are made flexible as it happened in China too. However. such flexibility is never at the cost of core strategic interests. In India, because of a lack of strategic thinking, which is accentuated by a fragmented polity leading to dominance of regional parties that mostly have no national or international outlook, these things happen.

[Karan Dixit]

Allowing Chinese equipments in Indian telecommunications network is very dangerous. And, I will hold MMS responsible for this because he is in charge of India's security not the private companies.

[krisna]

chinese census Nov 1-10

After years of reforms that have reduced the government's once-pervasive involvement in most people's lives, some Chinese are proving reluctant to give up personal information and harboring suspicions about what the government plans to do with their details.

during Mao era

"When we were little, it wasn't this way. If the police wanted to check hukous (Chinese household registration documents), they would just walk in with barely a knock. You can't do that anymore," he said.

Difficulties--
1) migration of millions of chinese from their rural home base
2) children born in violation of 1 child policy.
3) In cities some residents do not allow the census workers to collect info.

why mango chinese are suspicious of revealing personal data--

1)

The State Statistics Bureau will use the census to examine the real estate market in parts of several cities to determine how many homes were purchased by speculators and are sitting empty, the official Xinhua News Agency reported Thursday.

2)

Also raising privacy concerns in China was a requirement that started Wednesday for people who buy new cell phone numbers to register their personal details. Authorities say they have their sights on rampant junk messages — but some believe the government will use the new tool for monitoring its citizens.

3)

He wondered whether the results would be accurate — a common concern among Chinese that official figures are often fudged to create a false sense of optimism.

why are the problems cropping now--- you plant a seed it takes time to germinate.

The reluctance to cooperate is even as basic as not wanting to open doors to a stranger. For decades, life in China under the Communist Party centered around tight-knit government work units that were responsible for everything from housing assignments to granting permission for marriage.

what do CCP officials say-

China Population Census official Gu Yili brushed aside questions about concerns over improper use of census information or other potential violations of personal rights. Nearly everyone is supportive of the census because they know it's necessary for setting government policy in the years to come, she said.

"The government needs an accurate figure to make appropriate policy and people need to cooperate. It's in the best interest of ordinary people," she said, working one recent morning in a Beijing neighborhood of traditional courtyard homes, making sure volunteers were giving out copies of confidentiality agreements and putting blue nylon covers over their shoes before entering homes.

"The census is for the public," she said.

So lucky to be born free

[ManjaM]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 481530.cms

China calls PoK 'northern Pakistan', J&K is 'India-controlled Kashmir'

[Juggi G]

China’s Role in Arunachal, J&K puts India on Guard
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India

China’s Role in Arunachal, J&K puts India on Guard
Ashok Tuteja & Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, September 1
Aggressive posturing by China on Jammu and Kashmir and its unusual interest in the Indian Ocean has annoyed New Delhi, forcing it to seriously consider ways to counter Beijing. India is considering adopting a “proactive” approach on Tibet and also exposing China’s clandestine nuclear cooperation with Pakistan.

According to sources privy to yesterday’s meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), the government is considering a multi-pronged strategy to deal with China’s aggressiveness on issues critical to India's sovereignty, particularly J&K and Arunachal Pradesh. The message is clear to Beijing -- its recent actions on J&K were not in line with the efforts being made by New Delhi to normalise ties notwithstanding the complex border dispute.

Sources said India would stick to its stance of not having any military ties with China following its refusal to give visa to Lt Gen BS Jaswal on the ground that he commands Indian forces in Jammu and Kashmir. Notably, Gen Jaswal was to go to China on a scheduled official visit. India, in retaliation, suspended defence exchanges and denied visas to three Chinese Army officers who were slated to visit India. The Armies of the two nations had conducted brief joint exercises on counter-terrorism in the past.

Meanwhile, a top-level military delegation from India tonight heads for Korea — China’s ‘not so cordial’ neighbour — to look at strategic cooperation for developing niche military equipment. Defence Minister AK Antony will lead the delegation. “India is looking at specific high-end research and development being done in the private sector in Korea… some of the Korean companies are doing well… India is looking at a mechanism by which the two countries can work together,” said a senior official of the Ministry of Defence. Leading private companies, which are global giants, have very good technology in shipbuilding and precision engineering, said sources.

Separately, sources said a section of officials within the South Block feel it is time for India to become proactive on Tibet as well as on China’s clandestine nuclear cooperation with Pakistan. So far, New Delhi has consistently maintained that the Tibetan Autonomous Region is an integral part of China.

A senior official said, “Our position on Tibet should not be misunderstood as a sign of weakness by China… what if we also start questioning the status of Tibet.’’

India, has also decided to campaign vigorously against China’s decision to build two nuclear power plants for Pakistan in violation of the guidelines of the nuclear suppliers’ group (NSG). The sources said New Delhi would in the coming days lobby over the issue with leading NSG members, which have been vehemently opposed to nuclear proliferation.

India is also wary of Beijing’s attempts to entrench its influence in India’s neighbourhood, particularly in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and the Maldives. External Affairs Minister SM Krishna yesterday told Parliament that China’s “more than the normal interest” in Indian Ocean affairs and its “intentions” were being closely monitored.

New Delhi has come to realise that China has been showing more than normal interest in the Indian Ocean. In January this year, India along with 12 of its eastern neighbours had conducted a massive six-day naval exercise off the coast of Andaman Islands. Some of the participating nations do not have “cordial relations” with China.

This is the second time in recent years that China has questioned the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India, clearly reflecting its tilt towards its “fair weather friend” Pakistan on what is essentially a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan. Early last year, China had started ve interestissuing visas to Indian nationals from Jammu and Kashmir on separate sheets, stapled on the passports.

Taming the Dragon

l New Delhi to adopt ‘proactive’ approach on Tibet; will expose Beijing’s clandestine N-cooperation with Pakistan

l India wary of China’s attempts to increase influence in India's neighbourhood — in Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Maldives

l Defence Minister Antony leaves for Korea, China’s ‘not so good’ neighbour, with top-level military delegation

[TonyMontana]

May be I am nothing compared to stalwarts of this forum. After China got Independence and cultural revolution, probably they started to analyze their past histories and present status and measures to regain the lost clout/supremacy before Europeans conquered them.

What are the supremacy China enjoyed previously were:
1. Undisputed South East Asian and Eastern Asian power.
2. Rich cultural heritage and scientific knowledge respected throughout world (passed mainly through silk route)

What they now want from India.
1. Regarding Tibet
A. They want India stop pocking in Tibetan affairs and if possible expel the Holiness Dalai Lama and disband Tibetan exile govt.
B. To reclaim all Tibetan culture, they want Tawang, which is second holiest place in minds of Tibetan Buddhas.
C. To claim mastership of Sino-Tibetans and parts which India holds (Arunachal Pradesh and Leh).
2. To regain their lost cultural heritage.
A. To own tracts of old Silk route and a say in Hind Kush passage areas (read Central Asia, Afgan and Pakistan).
B. May be India can be powerful militarily, but enough to challenge Chinese supremacy in Asia.

With this singular aim, Huns are playing every trick in the book. IMO, once these are achieved, China will loose interest in its enmity towards India, but for India to loose its stand against Tibet and loosing Kashmir is a severe dent in its cradle of multicultural and multiethnicity, that is the crux of the problem.

This is an interesting assessment. And I do have to say it resonate with me as well. Allow me to add a Chinese perspective to this. Chinese and a lot of east asians, we are ancestor worshippers. In traditional chinese folk religion, we prayed to Gods for intervention and favours. But we worship our ancestors. The biggest fear is to fail your ancestors and "squander" your inheritance. To lose what your ancestors worked so hard to build is seen as a great shame. This is true on the family level, but I suspect collectively there is an element of this in the Chinese psyche.

As to the bolded part. Traditionally and in my opinion currently, the average chinese does not care for the Indic sphere of influence. We are quite happy for you to do your own thing in your own back yard. The Chinese does not want to dominate the Indics.

But of cause that being said, I understand India should not be expected to give up any land at all. And in fact, I just don't see how China could move militarily to get what she wants from India. And once India has risen economically, I foresee a settlement in favour of India as her influence expand. Why? Because everything on the western front could be negotiate for benifits on the eastern front, where China's core interests lay.

[svinayak]

Looks like we are seeing some leadership change in PRC with Hu being taken over by PLA in a soft coup

Zaobao, Singapore
http://watchingamerica.com/News/66961/w ... emier-wen/
Behind the American Media’s
Praise of Chinese Premier Wen

By Qi Xiniao
Translated By Matthew Hunter
27 August 2010
Edited by Alex Brewer
Singapore - Zaobao - Original Article (Chinese)

30 years ago, no one would have guessed that there would come a day when China’s total economic output would surpass that of Japan. The Japanese economy took off after the World War II and on reaching its peak in the 1980’s, constituted a Pearl Harbour-esque threat to the U.S. economy. Although economic growth stalled somewhat in the 1990’s, Japan remained one of the idols that China’s economy bowed down before.

Even today, many Chinese who have visited Japan express admiration for the precision of its management style. The operations style of the Japanese business world is even more of a model for mainland businesses. The creators of the Chinese financial market modeled it around the operation style of its Japanese counterpart.

It is precisely because China once looked up to the Japanese economic miracle that rumors of China’s economic output surpassing Japan’s have been met with widespread disbelief; even Chinese officials are taking a cautious attitude, and some are going as far as to consider such talk as an attempt by the West to provide China with the kind of pride that comes before a fall.

However, solid economic data shows otherwise. While Chinese per capita GDP and per capita income may still be well behind Japan’s, its total economic output has indeed surpassed that of Japan. For the person on the street, the figures are more pertinent still; these total economic output figures are significant for national strength since they indicate that the state’s tax base is expanding, allowing greater expenditure to improve education and military strength.

And yet, China’s total economic output having “surpassed the Japanese miracle” has a lot to do with the efforts of the current Chinese government. This is what lies behind the American media’s praise of Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao.

According to media reports:
When America’s Newsweek recently selected ten widely respected world financial leaders, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao won praise as the leader most in tune with the plight of the people. Newsweek noted that he is called “Grandpa Wen” by the Chinese people, and is well known for his concern for the people; during the earthquake at Wenchuan two years ago, he wept, deeply pained, as he inspected the disaster area; during this month’s landslides at Zhouqu, in Gansu province, he again lent encouragement to those trapped by the disaster.

Newsweek is a highly influential media outlet in the U.S., and so for Newsweek to list Premier Wen as one of ten widely respected national leaders, and then to praise him as the most empathetic among them constitutes high commendation and generous praise.

This is not the first time the American media has praised Premier Wen. But this time, Newsweek’s praise embodies its recognition of the miracle of Chinese economic development.

Moreover, the American media’s praise of Wen has attracted the gaze of the Chinese people and sparked heated debate, and has increased the standing of the media in the Chinese public consciousness, laying the strategic foundations for an entry into the Chinese market in the distant future.

In addition, at a time when frequent joint U.S.-South Korean military exercises on the Korean Peninsula are taking place, American aircraft carriers are visiting Vietnam and interfering in the South China Sea dispute, and America planning to carry out joint military exercises in the waters off the Senkaku Islands and other such incidents are putting more strain on Sino-American relations than ever before, the decision by an important American media outlet to publish lists and articles in praise of Wen reveals a hidden agenda: to smooth Sino-American relations with a show of goodwill, and of course, to require China to assume greater international responsibility.

[Suppiah]

Ravi Veloor (is he Indian or Singaporean of Indian origin) of Singapore Straits Times has written a nice piece in todays ST. Not sure if there is online link as I was reading the print copy.

Essentially he summarises the recent spats plus the Selig Harrison article. He also quote Mirwaiz Umer as saying Kashmiris don't want anything to do with Pakbarians. The article is not so subtly anti-Pakbaric and some more subtly pro-Indian. You can expect the Pakbaric terrorist ambassador to vomit on them soon in the letters to editor page. Essentially China is playing a game re Kashmir by starting a great game. He ends the article by wondering if India would join the great game by inviting Dalai Lama to the party when Obama comes calling later this year, thereby sending Beijing a strong signal.

There is a good suggestion there...hope someone in GOI is growing some dangling objects..

[ramana]

is it the article "New Great Game is on!"

[Bade]

Traditionally and in my opinion currently, the average chinese does not care for the Indic sphere of influence. We are quite happy for you to do your own thing in your own back yard. The Chinese does not want to dominate the Indics.

But of cause that being said, I understand India should not be expected to give up any land at all. And in fact, I just don't see how China could move militarily to get what she wants from India. And once India has risen economically, I foresee a settlement in favour of India as her influence expand. Why? Because everything on the western front could be negotiate for benifits on the eastern front, where China's core interests lay.

It is a misconception that Indic influence in South East Asia is not an equal or dominant one over the Chinese influence. If anything the Chinese influence is very likely only recent. The resemblance of even written scripts and names to Indian sounding or derived ones is evident even to the casual observer. I think if China restricts itself to its backyard (Koreas and Japan) where its influence has been the most in the distant past would definitely be agreeable to most Indians. Tibet and its neighborhood was nurtured largely by Indics over the centuries and we are not going to let it go that easily.

[Dhiman]

As to the bolded part. Traditionally and in my opinion currently, the average chinese does not care for the Indic sphere of influence. We are quite happy for you to do your own thing in your own back yard. The Chinese does not want to dominate the Indics.

But of cause that being said, I understand India should not be expected to give up any land at all. And in fact, I just don't see how China could move militarily to get what she wants from India. And once India has risen economically, I foresee a settlement in favour of India as her influence expand. Why? Because everything on the western front could be negotiate for benifits on the eastern front, where China's core interests lay.

But then who decides (and according to what arbitrary standards and/or anecdotal historical example) whether Tibet or East Asia is exclusively a Chinese backyard or exclusively an Indian backyard or both Chinese and Indian backyard?

Also, with respect to core interests in the eastern front, what if I tell the CCP that those specific core interests are non-negotiable? What would the CCP do in response?

[ashi]

Tibet and its neighborhood was nurtured largely by Indics over the centuries and we are not going to let it go that easily.

India can always change the stand on Tibet if it suits her. As they say agreements are made to be broken.

It explains the last couple decades of geopolictics. There is not really any backstabbing, bullying. All the crying foul is injustified. It is sheer power struggle. In the end, there is no victim but just loser.

[Suppiah]

is it the article "New Great Game is on!"

Yes it is...

Oh by the way, guys let us all go home and sing bhajans, there is nothing to worry about China in Gilgit....Stalinist rapist goon's propaganda yellow media has already assured us that there is no such thing going on...we are also told not to worry about stapled visas or visa denials as these are 'small matters'....

[krisna]

All the Propaganda That’s Fit to Print

Why Xinhua, China’s state news agency, could be the future of journalism

It had all the trappings of a globally significant confab: big-deal appearances (by Google, BBC), a weighty theme (“the digital age”), and speechifying by international pooh-bahs. Rupert Murdoch, the CEO of News Corp., even delivered a peppery keynote, vowing war on “content kleptomaniacs.” But despite its name, the World Media Summit was itself a media bust, especially in the English-speaking press, which barely covered the three-day event held last fall in Beijing’s Great Hall of the People. The problem? The conference was a propagandafest, a “media Olympics” hosted by the Xinhua News Agency, an official organ of the Chinese Communist Party. If China has its way, however, ignoring Xinhua won’t be an option for long.

Xinhua has a monopoly on official news and the regulatory power to complicate life for other media outfits

But as China has grown in wealth and international stature, Beijing has tired of feeling overlooked or maligned by the Western press. So Xinhua’s role has been redefined, as a means for China to wield soft power abroad. In the last year alone, the 80-year-old outlet launched a 24-hour -English--language news station, colonized a skyscraper in New York’s Times Square, and announced plans to expand its news--gathering operation from 120 to 200 overseas bureaus and as many as 6,000 journalists abroad. Not to be outdone by its Western peers, Xinhua has also released an iPhone app for “Xinhua news, cartoons, financial information and entertainment programs around the clock.”

Where the game was once about suppressing news, it’s now about overwhelming it, flooding the market with your own information. Airbrushing photos is for amateurs.

In Xinhua’s world, the Tiananmen Square massacre never happened, Falun Gong is an evil cult, and the Dalai Lama is the Guy Fawkes of Tibet. Xinhua also gathers sensitive news—such as the full heads-rolling horror of the Uighur riots last summer—and releases it to Chinese officials alone. It’s as if The New York Times were to stamp its scoops “internal reference reports” and file them to President Obama

Most news organizations are in retreat, shuttering bureaus and laying off journalists. But the former “Red China News Agency” doesn’t need to worry about the inconvenience of turning a profit.

A subscription to all Xinhua stories costs in the low five figures, compared with at least six figures for comparable access to the Associated Press, Reuters, or AFP. For customers who still can’t afford the fees, a Xinhua aid program offers everything—content, equipment, and technical support—for free.

I better learn mandarin soon.

[krisna]

[youtube]P313uy9hni4&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Desperation: Last Train Home

As Lixin Fan's understated doc depicts the chaos surrounding the annual migration of 130 million workers in China, it also tells the devastating story of one family’s choices and their hope for the future.

It’s a little-known fact, even in China itself, that there are 130 million migrant workers in that country who spend most of the year away from home, away from their families, in order to make money. They work brutal hours in massive factories and live in deplorable conditions—basically barracks with curtains around each cot. They wash their clothes by hand on cement floors and make frantic phone calls home to their children, who are being cared for by their grandparents in countryside villages, where the young and old work side-by-side farming the land. In most cases, the parents make these sacrifices in the hopes that their children will study hard and attend university, to break the cycle of poverty within the family.
Once a year, these migrant workers exit the cities en masse, heading home for a brief respite in their respective villages to celebrate the Chinese New Year.

As China has developed into a manufacturing superpower over the last 30+ years, it has done so on the backs of the workers, who are neither justly compensated nor fairly treated.

Q&A-

Can you explain a bit about why so many workers migrate from the countryside to the cities, leaving their children behind?

The household registration system policy has been in effect since the start of the People’s Republic of China, which basically divides the population into urban residents and rural residents. If you are a farmer, your kids can only be admitted to public schools in the countryside. If you choose to migrate and work in the city, you don’t have a permit for your children to enjoy the social benefits in the city, including the schools. That’s why they all leave their children back in the village—their kids would not be admitted to schools in the city.
The policy is changing now, but very slowly, because the country has to deal with such a huge population, and it takes time to build infrastructure and facilities.

[SSridhar]

PoK: India conveys concerns to China

India on Friday conveyed its concerns to China over what officials described as “a pattern of what China was doing” in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, also raising questions over reports that 11,000 Chinese troops were present in the disputed region.

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Zhang Zhijun assured Indian officials in talks that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops present in the disputed Gilgit-Baltistan region were stationed there only for flood relief work and to provide humanitarian assistance, sources in the Indian embassy here told The Hindu. {How did those roads and tunnels get built within three weeks' time ?}

The Chinese Foreign Ministry on Thursday described The New York Times opinion piece, which claimed that Pakistan had “handed over” control of the disputed region in PoK to China, as “totally groundless and out of ulterior motive.”

The Foreign Ministry's denial, however, raised eyebrows in New Delhi with its reference to the disputed region as “a part of northern Pakistan.” China has, in the past, refrained from voicing support to either Indian or Pakistani sovereignty claims.

China's reference to Gilgit-Baltistan was also raised in the talks, the embassy sources said. “We raised a set of PoK-issues,” the sources said. {And what did the Chinese say ? Why isn't there any mention of their reply ?}

Indian Ambassador to China S. Jaishankar, who had earlier this week briefed the Cabinet Committee on Security on China-related developments, was understood to have sought clarifications from China on whether the moves suggested a fundamental change in Beijing's Kashmir policy.

The officials also repeated their concerns over China's issuing stapled visas to Indian citizens from Jammu and Kashmir since last year, another move seen as China questioning India's sovereignty over the State.

Mr. Zhang assured India that there was no change in China's decades-old position that it supported a resolution to the Kashmir problem by India and Pakistan.

[SSridhar]

Beijing should respect our sensitivities: SM Krishna

“Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) is an inalienable part of India. We have noted with great concern the comments made by the spokesperson of China. We have advised our Ambassador to express concerns. I hope the Chinese government will have respect for our sensitivities towards J&K,” Mr. Krishna said.