People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby naren » 04 Oct 2010 10:10

Netflix - National Geographic: China's Lost Girls

Image

Accompanied by her team from her travel show, "National Geographic's Ultimate Explorer," reporter Lisa Ling ("The View") flies off to China with American parents set to adopt baby girls, the casualties of the country's long-standing one-child policy. In hewing to this strict rule, families wind up aborting, abandoning or hiding their daughters, many of whom end up in the United States, brought by couples longing for children.


China's Lost Girls

Ling soon learns that there may be other, less obvious prices to pay for China’s population changes. Classrooms appear disproportionately filled with male students. Experts predict that in several decades, China will have as many as 40 million young men of marrying age with no women to marry. {by 2020}What will become of this massive class of bachelors? And what may be in store for China’s girls? Ling meets a woman who shares her ordeal of being kidnapped and sold as a wife to a man across China. This kind of crime will increase, experts warn, as China’s gender gap worsens. Another emerging social problem is that many children, especially boys, have been pampered since birth and are becoming spoiled. Known as “little emperors,” many of these coddled children are battling expanding waistlines.


I saw this documentary. Very sad. The level of misogyny is shocking.

I heard from another documentary - People's Republic of Capitalism - that the girl babies will be drowned to death after they were born. When you read PRC "prevented" 400 million births, you can only imagine what happened. And no, they are not referring to abortion.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 07 Oct 2010 20:16

Published on Oct 04, 2010
By Chris Devonshire-Ellis
China to Enter Three Year Decline as Problems Mount: China Briefing
I do believe that in comparison with previous occasions, China is going to enter into a period of some uncertainty over the next three years and that the process of doing so has already begun. There are a number of reasons for this, but all are to do with failings of government. Propping up the uncertainty is the issue surrounding the current party leadership. With two years to go prior to the curtain being drawn on Hu and Wen’s leadership, the Communist Party has to find successors. With a hard core of about 300 decision makers at the National People’s Congress, and even that concentrated further within the Communist Party Politburo, jostling for power is now taking place in bids to secure the most coveted positions.
Traveling around China I have come across acres and acres of empty, prestigious property developments. I’ve seen entire cities built for a population of millions but with actual residence of 100,000. “Build and they’ll come” seems to be the mantra. But they won’t. China’s population is actually shrinking, and unlike India, another 100 million people are not coming into the labor pool. China needs more people to sustain its previous growth, but they aren’t being born.

China’s new found urban wealth also has largely been built on credit. The enormous numbers of cars that have come onto China’s roads the past 18 months has largely been the result of virtually interest free loans. Add to that the money that appears to have filtered away into unsustainable property projects and the entire picture seems wrong. Build a property for US$10 million, the speculators move in and prices rise, and the government can report a profit on the original project. Yet it’s useless without people actually living in them. When that bubble is pricked, China’s bad debt in its government and banking sectors is going to really hurt, along with the ordinary folk who bought into the dream.

That won’t necessarily affect foreign direct investment, but it will affect the mood of the nation.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby paramu » 08 Oct 2010 00:08

RajeshA wrote:The enormous numbers of cars that have come onto China’s roads the past 18 months has largely been the result of virtually interest free loans.


When that bubble is pricked, China’s bad debt in its government and banking sectors is going to really hurt, along with the ordinary folk who bought into the dream

Since China is a closed economy and banks are govt. owned, what would happen if GoC decides to write off those bad loans when they are due? People can talk about moral hazard. Money comes from thin air and goes back to thin air. Does it really matter where exactly it goes to?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 08 Oct 2010 00:29

Economic Perspectives on PRC

Published on Oct 07, 2010
By Francesco Sisci
China's misread property 'bubble': Asia Times Online
it is pushed - to expand internal consumption. To consume its own products, export less, and import more, China needs money - real cash. One way is to increase workers' salaries, but a broader policy needs to turn into real value what was previously given for free - mainly land. Land could become collateral for banks, which in turn could lend money and create a cash flow.

Not all land is the same in China. Commercial land is sold for high prices, industrial land is still given out at a discount, and land for state or military buildings is granted for free.

If the real estate problem has to be addressed, it must start here: land must have a price and thus cannot be used liberally (and greedily) by entities that own them for non-commercial reasons but can in the future turn them to commercial use. Jin Pei argues that there should be restrictions on the size of government buildings or on the use of military barracks.

Arguably, although the state may decide to let them out for free, these plots of land should be accounted for and have a price tag next to them on the official books.

Only if all this land is brought onto the books can we have a real picture of the market. This could certainly cause a drop in prices, but here Jin takes a different turn.

He explains that in the last 10 to 15 years of reforms, China has created immense wealth for its urban middle class. A very conservative estimate reckons that some 500 million Chinese collectively sit on at least 100 trillion yuan (US$15 trillion) of capital. (About 80%, or 500 million, of the roughly 600 million urban Chinese own their homes, constituting some 200 million family homes each worth at the very least 500,000 yuan.)

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Juggi G » 08 Oct 2010 03:57

Image

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby jagga » 08 Oct 2010 14:34

Nobel Peace Prize awarded to China dissident Liu Xiaobo
The award, announced in Norway's capital Oslo, is certain to anger Beijing, which had earlier warned against the move.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 08 Oct 2010 14:51

jagga wrote:Nobel Peace Prize awarded to China dissident Liu Xiaobo
The award, announced in Norway's capital Oslo, is certain to anger Beijing, which had earlier warned against the move.


Great!

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 08 Oct 2010 16:22

Wow.

I do sincerely hope PRC delivers heavy jhaapads to the soft-powered holier-than-turd-world pipsqueaks whose arrogance sees fit to rile anything that doesn't agree with their worldview.

I don't think we should wait for the vaunted hallowed nobull commie-tee of swedee (or is it norweegi?) turds to decide to award yaseen malik a peace nobel to wake up to the danger.

Sure, I understand the Scandinavian holier-than-thous in lockstep with the rest of the west and esp ungli-saxonia own the big awards, the big money and the big pulpits. For now. But their power is waning (or so I hope) and this desperation to irritate and make grandiose political statements is perhaps recognition of the same, who knows?

P.S.
Don't get me wrong. I am no PRC fan. Justy that in my calculation, in the west versus PRC tussle underway, the west and its cats paws need to weaken further before things get interesting enough for Yindia to come into play.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby sanjaykumar » 08 Oct 2010 20:28

So the western cabal views China as it did South Africa.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Shankas » 08 Oct 2010 22:14

Juggi G wrote:Image



$363 - $2490 = -$2127 IOU's held by China. Good luck with that :rotfl:

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby amdavadi » 08 Oct 2010 22:45

Unkil will print more dollars to pay back to panda.

Unkil will find a way to weaken the dollar atleast 30-40%

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby abhishek_sharma » 09 Oct 2010 05:30

Nobel Prize for Dissident Is Seen as Rebuke to China

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/world/asia/09beijing.html

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby arun » 09 Oct 2010 07:53

P.R. China is really pissed off that Liu Xiaobo was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

CNN reporting the reaction of P.R. China’s Foreign Ministry:

Chinese official calls Nobel Prize award 'blasphemy'

The same story in the UK based Independent:

China condemns 'insult' of award for jailed dissident Liu Xiaobo

P.R. China Nil, Nobel Peace Prize Committee 2 (Including the award for H.H. The Dalai Lama)

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Suppiah » 09 Oct 2010 16:11

Our own Stalinist rapist goon's yellow propagandist daily is releasing some inner pakistaniyat, faithfully and prominently mouthing PRC's words instead of covering the life/work of the peace activist.

Here is a proper reaction from Taiwan PM

Hours after the announcement, President Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) congratulated Liu for winning the prize and called on China to address human rights issues with a more liberal attitude. In a written statement, Ma described Liu’s winning the award as bearing “significant historical meaning” for the development of human rights in China, as well as Chinese communities around the world.


http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/a ... 2003484913

It is front page news...

Shame on our rapist goon mass murderer puppets of Beijing..

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby sanjaykumar » 10 Oct 2010 01:04

Most powerful China is censoring news of the award from the adoring masses.

What is superpower China afraid of? How will it deal with a resurgent India if it is afraid of its own masses? I worry for China.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Oct 2010 08:37

I.M.F. Doesn’t Press China on Currency

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/business/global/10imf.html

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Oct 2010 08:38

China, Angered by Peace Prize, Blocks Celebration

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/world/asia/10china.html

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Raja Bose » 11 Oct 2010 12:23

It seems Nobel Prize winner's beebi is also under house arrest. Interesting to see the tussle between the human rights wallahs and the Chinese Led Lips Brigade - both enemies of India. China's reaction is ham-fisted as usual - talk about insecurity! If Yasin Mallik and goon co. gets the piss prize, GoI babooze should simply make a statement that he is free to get whatever prize he wants, he is still a terrorist. Simply ignoring it with a condescending statement or two will ensure that there is no controversy and hence, 6 months later nobody would remember who won it, just like nobody remembers that Ombaba is a piss prize winner.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 11 Oct 2010 14:43

X-Posted from Managing Chinese Threat Thread

Human Rights in PRC

Published on Oct 10, 2010
Some cry foul on Nobel winner: AFP
Wei, 60, a former electrician at the Beijing zoo, was sentenced to death row after boldly putting up a poster seeking democracy in 1979. He was finally freed after intervention by then-US president Bill Clinton. Wei was himself often tipped for the Nobel Peace Prize in the past.

He said “tens of thousands” of Chinese other than Liu deserved the award, including Gao Zhisheng (高智晟), a missing human rights lawyer, and Chen Guangcheng (陳光誠), who exposed abuses in Beijing’s one-child policy.

In a controversial move, a group of exiled Chinese — not including Wei — wrote an open letter to the Nobel committee calling Liu unsuitable for the prize.

Diane Liu (劉曉東), who blogs under the penname San Mei (三妹) and helped organize the letter, faulted Liu for not highlighting the treatment of the Falun Gong spiritual movement, which she called China’s worst human rights problem.

The Falun Gong says it has suffered systematic persecution, including imprisonment and death, since it was banned in 1999.
“Liu Xiaobo is an important Chinese intellectual because he does two things — he criticizes the government and he lives in China. And in order to do that and not be dead, you have to make compromises,” Cheek said.

“He’s a democrat, he’s a human rights activist — that’s what he’s after, but he’s willing to make tactical adjustments in order to be effective and the most important one has been remaining inside China,” Cheek said.

“Yes, he hasn’t been as emphatic or hasn’t addressed topics we have addressed internationally,” Cheek said. “But we don’t live in China and we don’t have the police coming around the corner.”

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby niran » 11 Oct 2010 15:55

Chinese Nobel winner's wife detained

Liu Xiaobo is the first Chinese citizen to win the Peace Prize issued by the Oslo-based Nobel committee and China immediately lashed out at the award, calling it "blasphemy", and labelling Liu a "criminal".

and i was under impression Blasphemy was WRT to Religon onlee.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby abhishek_sharma » 12 Oct 2010 06:49

U.S. Concerned About Attitude of China’s Military

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/12/world/asia/12beijing.html

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 12 Oct 2010 19:45

Published on Oct 11, 2010
Press Release
New survey reveals stark differences between Indian and Chinese entrepreneurs
Indians do it for freedom – Chinese for money

Ground-breaking new survey of Indian and Chinese entrepreneurs finds big differences in their reasons for starting a business. Indians are driven by the desire to be their own boss; Chinese by the lure of making money.


Published on Oct 11, 2010
Legatum Institute: Survey of Entrepreneurs: China & India (pdf)

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby RajeshA » 12 Oct 2010 21:23

Published on Oct 12, 2010
By Peter Lee
China's Sorrow, China's Embarassment
The great relocation that failed: Asia Times Online
However, a less-known case - the detention of investigative journalist Xie Chaoping - provides another perspective on the rise of Chinese civil society. It also illustrates the difficulties China faces in righting a wrong, even when the party's survival and the national interest are not seen to be at risk.

In August, Xie Chaoping was detained by the Public Security Bureau of Shaanxi province's Weinan City in a fit of pique over
Xie's devastating, detailed and closely argued expose of municipal corruption, mismanagement and arrogance in the execution of relocation and disaster-relief programs in southeastern Shaanxi, entitled "The Great Relocation".


Published on Sep 05, 2010
By Xie Chaoping
The Great Relocation: EastSouthWestNorth

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2010 06:01

TonyMontana wrote:
pandyan wrote: Anyway, I have a OT, basic question.
we injuns have a habit of seeking higher power blessing when taking exam or when starting something new or during crisis. How do Chinese commoners react during times of stress? Do they pray god or seek higher power to guide them?


No. We just work harder. The older folks might invoke Chinese folk mythology, ie demi-godes etc, but to be honest, I don't think even they believe it. Of cause that depends on one's religious inclinations. Most mainland Chinese I know are atheist.


:rotfl: That is a funny one sir

Most Indians I know work in America. So all Indians work in America
All the Chinese I have met were prisoners implicated in a case of cheating. All Chinese are cheats.
All Pakistanis I know are honest hardworking and want Islam to be suppressed in Pakistan. All Pakistanis are this way.

You look at a few people around you and reach judgement on behalf of several biilion people. For SDRE forumites - I would like to point out that this is precisely how the RAPE view Pakistanis "We are tall, fair skinned, tight assed, muscular, rich and have longer dikcs" Oh the power of propagandu.

The reason for having statistics and peer review in science is because people reach expansive conclusions and extrapolations based on personal impressions and biases. We have seen, on this forum how Tibetans have been described as "One people" based on convenient propaganda and fond beliefs. The Tibetans do not think they are one people; they are even genetically different - having evolved a gene that enables survival at high altitude and have separate laws that allow them to have 3 children.

Clearly even the CPC has this sort of thought process. First they claim that a Chinese copy of the Su-27 (the J-11) is indigenous, or that the Chinese copy of the Bajaj Pulsar is indigenous and then they say "Oh nobody objects to that so we keep saying that". One thing I will say for the Chinese - they have found themselves a great partner in Pakhanaland who also buy the JF-17 and call it "inidigenous"

I claim that Angelina Jolie is mine. Nobody on here (or outside) has objected. So she is mine. Wow! Exactly who is deluding whom? :shock:

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 13 Oct 2010 06:22

shiv wrote:

:rotfl: That is a funny one sir

Most Indians I know work in America. So all Indians work in America
All the Chinese I have met were prisoners implicated in a case of cheating. All Chinese are cheats.
All Pakistanis I know are honest hardworking and want Islam to be suppressed in Pakistan. All Pakistanis are this way.

You look at a few people around you and reach judgement on behalf of several biilion people. For SDRE forumites - I would like to point out that this is precisely how the RAPE view Pakistanis "We are tall, fair skinned, tight assed, muscular, rich and have longer dikcs" Oh the power of propagandu.

The reason for having statistics and peer review in science is because people reach expansive conclusions and extrapolations based on personal impressions and biases. We have seen, on this forum how Tibetans have been described as "One people" based on convenient propaganda and fond beliefs. The Tibetans do not think they are one people; they are even genetically different - having evolved a gene that enables survival at high altitude and have separate laws that allow them to have 3 children.

Clearly even the CPC has this sort of thought process. First they claim that a Chinese copy of the Su-27 (the J-11) is indigenous, or that the Chinese copy of the Bajaj Pulsar is indigenous and then they say "Oh nobody objects to that so we keep saying that". One thing I will say for the Chinese - they have found themselves a great partner in Pakhanaland who also buy the JF-17 and call it "inidigenous"

I claim that Angelina Jolie is mine. Nobody on here (or outside) has objected. So she is mine. Wow! Exactly who is deluding whom? :shock:


Why U mad tho? The dude asked me a question and I answered it the best I could. I think he was looking for a personal response, not a statistical breakdown of religious practices in China. Good rant tho. 8/10.
Last edited by TonyMontana on 13 Oct 2010 06:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby archan » 13 Oct 2010 06:25

Angelina is deluding herself. More OT posts and I begin deleting en masse. :mrgreen:

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2010 07:24

TonyMontana wrote:Why U mad tho?


Long ago I categorized several ways in which people communicate with each other and gave those categories names which are well known on this forum. One is a "torn shirt versus open fly discussion. The other is a "You farted" statement.

What you did in your reply was to make a "You farted" statement. In this form of communication a person makes a statement that may not have any proof or truth whatsoever, but it might sound reasonable. Among humans who communicate with each other in a friendly manner - people who hear a "You farted" statement and do not know the truth one way or the other tend to take the statement on trust and internalize it as a fact to be remembered without going through the odious process of asking for proof.

On a forum such as this - we are likely to find, some months down the line, some forum member reading a news item about China saying "Oh - but the Chinese are mostly atheist". And that conclusion is likely to arise merely because he has read your statement.

Here is another "You farted" statement from you:
The CCP believes that they have the capacity to take on the neighbours. As historically being the case. And the lack of concrete response from these neighbours has not proven them wrong yet.


"Lack of concrete response from neighbours" is the part I am referring to. I don't think even the CPC believes that, but you choose to make the statement alleging that there is "no concrete response". The response is there. You don't want to see it. That does not mean it does not exist.

May I point out that a whole lot of statements you have made about China and the Chinese in general are what you perceive to be true. There is nothing wrong in holding the views that you hold, but the views that you hold may not be a complete reflection of reality. As the resident Chinese on here - your words will be taken as the truth unless someone is unfriendly enough to ask for some back-up/proof for those statements. I must also point out that I am not singling you out. A lot of other forum members have been called up and told exactly the same things for making claims and generalizations that do not necessarily fit in with reality. Their mistake was in trying to pass off their personal impressions as the general truth.

Personally - I see the problem as so serious that even governments are not exempt from believing myths just because they choose to believe what is said by a coterie of sycophants surrounding them. The only reason why science has been science is because of healthy skepticism and constant nitpicking and refining of anything that is being passed off as "true".

I see the CPC as extremely suspect in this regard because they need to depend on the suppression of information for their goals. Their goals may be lofty and honorable for the Chinese people, but because of their reliance on manipulation of information their actions and statements are always suspect. Of course the US resorts to similar tricks. But the US mode of manipulation of information is different and is much more open to introspection, self criticism and change.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby DavidD » 13 Oct 2010 07:34

...continuing a discussion from the China Military thread.

Sidhant wrote:
Tony sir, did I said that the saying is wrong or what David quoted it wrong. What I said is what a piece of wisdom and how enlightened I became with it. In tune with the same super natural wisdom the bosses of CPC the great think that India will be boxed if all her neighbors become her foes, but magically somehow the same rule does not applies to the super power in waiting and she will grow even if she picks up fights with most of her neighbors. This very contradiction in the infinite wisdom of CPC amuses me, that somehow the rules of Geopolitics are different for China and other countries :P .


When did anyone say the same doesn't apply to India? Does India have a China-Pak type of relationship with any of its neighbors? Bangladesh? Pakistan? Myanmar? Bhutan? Nepal(perhaps)? Sri Lanka? The key of this strategy is not to make "friends" with your neighbors, but make subjects out of them. Right now, by and large, the "friendly" neighbors of China are subordinate to China's will. They are, in a sense, conquered. The goal is to make the same happen with the likes of Japan, India, etc.

Sidhant wrote:
Befriend a distant states while attacking a neighbours, will this saying still hold if an "s" is added to it and the neighbors are formidable(all may not be powerful than China currently) foes like India, Japan, Vietnam and the grand alliances are with Powerful(??) nations like Pakistan, Noko, Turkey, Greece et :roll: c. What kind of wisdom do you see in this scenario Tony sir? I dont doubt ancient Chinese wisdom and no disrespect meant to it but any wisdom is as good as the people/person applying it, its like science which can give you facts, how you apply it is all upto you. I was amused how the old saying is being used to justify the evidently bad decisions taken by China in last few months. Calling me ignorant will not change the fact that the Chinese actions in last few months have been a blatant demonstration of either Chinese overconfidence or impatience whatever you like to call it, both are not good.


Yes, the saying still holds. It makes no difference how strong your neighbors are, they're all enemies that need to be subjugated. If they were weak, they would've already been "conquered". China is not intentionally picking on the strongest neighbors, it's mere incidental that only the strongest neighbors are left to resist China's push to increase its influence.

Sidhant wrote:Thank god that world politics is not a popularity contest else China would lose without even contesting :twisted: . Well I can speak for myself and I dont laugh at China having stooges and croonies, I laugh when CPC projects them as grand alliances as I dont see anything grand on those alliances. If I hire a street goon to harass my foe that does not makes the goon my ally, does it Tony. Alliance is a much greater term, why there is so much heartburn if someone doesnt find those alliances grand, why does it hurts the Chinese pride if I call spade a spade. When did I said influence is bad, what I am trying to point out is that since China need such great :?: allies it means that China's super powerful hard and softer than silk soft powers have failed to achieve the objective and now they need to get dirty. Nothing wrong in doing that, but why is so much shame to acknowledge the same. Why do you need to wrap it in the name of grand alliance and get agitated or find it funny when some posters dont buy it?


You're missing the point. The point is not to build an actual alliance. The goal is to build an "alliance" like the U.S.-Canada "alliance", where it's more of a protector-protectee relationship and all important decisions are made by the protector. The strength of the countries you're allied with matters little. In fact, most strong nations would resist this type of "alliance" and therefore it's actually useful to keep them weak. Do you think the U.S. would ever let Canada or Mexico become a military power? The farther away a nation is, the more useful an actual alliance would be, but still, you would preferably want to make sure that you're still the "protector" of the relationship.

Sidhant wrote:I like the determination with which you and David defend every action of CPC but please remember CPC exists coz of China but vice versa is not true. A government who afraid of its own people is generally not a good government.


That's EXACTLY wrong. The best government is one that is afraid of its own people. Remember, absolute power corrupts absolutely. When a government is no longer afraid of its own people, it will feel free to wantonly wield its power and cause suffering with no regard of consequences. I'm surprised that a citizen of a democratic nation would make this foolish statement, as fear of the people is the cornerstone of democracy. The whole objective of democracy is to keep the government always fearful of the people it governs and therefore wary of their needs, because the people may oust them from office with a vote at any time. IMO, that makes democratic governments TOO fearful of the people and prone to simply follow the directives of the largely sensationalist and short-sighted masses, but that's topic for another discussion.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 13 Oct 2010 07:41

shiv wrote:
What you did in your reply was to make a "You farted" statement.


Tell you what. Before next time I post, I'll publish it first in a peer reviewed journal. Once that passed mustered, I'll then post it on BRF. Would that make you happy?

I enjoyed your well thought out and scientific posts, but to me it seems pretentious to expect that level of posting from every poster on every post. You just made a huge post lecturing people on how to publish research findings. Have you ever considered that BRF is not a peer reviewed scientific journal? It's an open forum where view points and ideas are discussed. Did I, or any other posters, imply that the words in my posts are anything but my personal opinion, rather then scripture?

I think you need to take a big breathe and relax a little. You don't give BRFites enough credit if you think they couldn't tell my posts are based on my particular life experience, and is not a definitive answer to the question that was asked of me.

Leonard
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Leonard » 13 Oct 2010 07:47

For posterity -- especially for the newer and younger BR folks -- A kindly reminder for the "Saintly CPC & PLA" are capable off

Here's a true story as seen and recorded by a Mountain Climber (having done a few myself) --

Carrying all that extra weight, out and about at ~~ 8K Metres and recording what they did in extreme climate and a hostile environment is simply remarkable and astounding ..

Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkMcj4vQtRU

Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2O0dmVio3I

Richard Gere talking about it -- here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPY7E_eVpu0


Please take a moment, and appreciate the Pain & Suffering that our Tibetan Brothers endure daily -- from these newly minted & programmed PLA Han's --- the new re-incarnated "japanese" from WW2 ..

DavidD
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby DavidD » 13 Oct 2010 07:48

TonyMontana wrote:
shiv wrote:
What you did in your reply was to make a "You farted" statement.


Tell you what. Before next time I post, I'll publish it first in a peer reviewed journal. Once that passed mustered, I'll then post it on BRF. Would that make you happy?

I enjoyed your well thought out and scientific posts, but to me it seems pretentious to expect that level of posting from every poster on every post. You just made a huge post lecturing people on how to publish research findings. Have you ever considered that BRF is not a peer reviewed scientific journal? It's an open forum where view points and ideas are discussed. Did I, or any other posters, imply that the words in my posts are anything but my personal opinion, rather then scripture?

I think you need to take a big breathe and relax a little. You don't give BRFites enough credit if you think they couldn't tell my posts are based on my particular life experience, and is not a definitive answer to the question that was asked of me.


You have to understand that shiv is a "China-agnostic". He doesn't trust any report coming out of China, anecdotal or official. He has his own perception of what is true, and it would take an overwhelming amount of evidence to convince him otherwise, even though the same is not required to reinforce his own version of truth.

shiv
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2010 07:49

DavidD wrote:The key of this strategy is not to make "friends" with your neighbors, but make subjects out of them. Right now, by and large


I greatly admire the control that China exerts over Pakistan. The route that China now has to the Indian ocean via the roads and ports it has built in Pakistan are just amazing. The statistics for Chinese exports going ou via Pakistan and the huge percentage of Chinese oil coming via Pakistan are an indicator of the deep deep influence - nay control that China has on Pakistan. This is so well known that I will not bother Google uncle for actual, real, figures for these. I can see the similarity between the control exerted by China on Pakistan and the control exerted by China over Taiwan.

With deep respect, I submit to you that I exert exactly such control over Angelina Jolie. The "control" is more in my mind than in any actual physical benefit to me.

shiv
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2010 07:52

DavidD wrote:
You have to understand that shiv is a "China-agnostic". He doesn't trust any report coming out of China, anecdotal or official. He has his own perception of what is true, and it would take an overwhelming amount of evidence to convince him otherwise, even though the same is not required to reinforce his own version of truth.


Yes. But I am allowed to question the CPC's version of truth just as much as anyone else questions my version of truth. That gives me an edge over most Chinese in China as I see my position as a great advantage to me personally even if Chinese are unable to see the advantage to me. No need to worry about it.

shiv
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2010 07:59

TonyMontana wrote:You just made a huge post lecturing people on how to publish research findings. Have you ever considered that BRF is not a peer reviewed scientific journal?


Exactly. So the credibility of anyone who posts here is the same as that of anyone else. On BRF - a person living in the Fiji is considered as having adequate in depth knowledge about China as the official CPC spokesperson.

But on BRF the freedom exists to try and call a bluff if one seems to be occurring. The CPC in my view is a series of bluffs and it has succeeded in passing on that bluff to a sufficient number of people. My sole purpose is to keep calling that bluff until people start thinking whether a given postulate may be true or a bluff. As long as credible cites are offered my ability to call a bluff is weakened. Whether you or anyone else wants to offer such cites is another matter. You don't have to prove anything and I don't have to accept anything as true.
Last edited by shiv on 13 Oct 2010 08:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 13 Oct 2010 08:01

Leonard wrote: Please take a moment, and appreciate the Pain & Suffering that our Tibetan Brothers endure daily -- from these newly minted & programmed PLA Han's --- the new re-incarnated "japanese" from WW2 ..


The difference is that the Japanese never had the same man-power and resources. Nor are they so dependant on foreign markets. Bad Godwin is bad Godwin.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 13 Oct 2010 08:07

shiv wrote:
Exactly. So the credibility of anyone who posts here is the same as that of anyone else. On BRF - a person living in the Fiji is considered as having adequate in depth knowledge about China as the official CPC spokesperson.

But on BRF the freedom exists to try and call a bluff if one seems to be occurring. The CPC in my view is a series of bluffs and it has succeeded in passing on that bluff to a sufficient number of people. My sole purpose is to keep calling that bluff until people start thinking whether a given postulate may be true or a bluff. As long as credible cites are offered my ability to all a bluff is weakened. Whether you or anyone else wants to offer such cites is another matter. You don't have to prove anything and I don't have to accept anything as true.


Firstly, I respect your right in calling bluffs. I just didn't enjoy the condescending tones you used to do it with.

Secondly, a bluff implies an intention to "fool" or deceive. Whereas I was giving my honest held personal opinions, and I take offence to you implying that I was "bluffing".

Thirdly, if you call every bluff, you're gonna hit one hand that had two aces. Not a good poker strategy.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 13 Oct 2010 08:17

DavidD wrote:
Does India have a China-Pak type of relationship with any of its neighbors? Bangladesh? Pakistan? Myanmar? Bhutan? Nepal(perhaps)? Sri Lanka? The key of this strategy is not to make "friends" with your neighbors, but make subjects out of them. Right now, by and large, the "friendly" neighbors of China are subordinate to China's will. They are, in a sense, conquered. The goal is to make the same happen with the likes of Japan, India, etc.


Sir. Some facts courtesy Google uncle are quoted below

    China Japan trade: USD 266 billion a year
    China India trade: USD 52 billion a year
    China Vietnam trade: USD 16.5 billion a year
    China North Korea trade: USD 2.8 billion a year
    Chia Pakistan trade: USD 2.5 billion a year

Could you please explain what is intelligent about Chinese strategy to me? Or are you bluffing? Or stating dreams which you want to believe while thinking that I say only what I want to believe?

China's "friends" are beggars. Its enemies feed the Chinese. What is the CPC teaching you sir?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 13 Oct 2010 08:25

shiv wrote: China's "friends" are beggars. Its enemies feed the Chinese. What is the CPC teaching you sir?


*Tags in*

I think the lesson is that power are not given. It is taken. "Domination" of Japan ensures that they continueously feed the Chinese. No nation is a "friend" with any other nation unless there is some shared bloodline. Ie the WASP world. I never see Pakistan or any one else as "friend" to China. China is simply too big to have "friends". There's nations that do as they are told, and there's nations that you have to twist their arm to get them to do as they are told.

There's never any friends in geopolitics, only aligned interests.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby DavidD » 13 Oct 2010 08:34

shiv wrote:
DavidD wrote:
You have to understand that shiv is a "China-agnostic". He doesn't trust any report coming out of China, anecdotal or official. He has his own perception of what is true, and it would take an overwhelming amount of evidence to convince him otherwise, even though the same is not required to reinforce his own version of truth.


Yes. But I am allowed to question the CPC's version of truth just as much as anyone else questions my version of truth. That gives me an edge over most Chinese in China as I see my position as a great advantage to me personally even if Chinese are unable to see the advantage to me. No need to worry about it.


You're being overly cynical, which makes you no better than the overly gullible persons you criticize.

DavidD
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby DavidD » 13 Oct 2010 08:47

shiv wrote:
DavidD wrote:
Does India have a China-Pak type of relationship with any of its neighbors? Bangladesh? Pakistan? Myanmar? Bhutan? Nepal(perhaps)? Sri Lanka? The key of this strategy is not to make "friends" with your neighbors, but make subjects out of them. Right now, by and large, the "friendly" neighbors of China are subordinate to China's will. They are, in a sense, conquered. The goal is to make the same happen with the likes of Japan, India, etc.


Sir. Some facts courtesy Google uncle are quoted below

    China Japan trade: USD 266 billion a year
    China India trade: USD 52 billion a year
    China Vietnam trade: USD 16.5 billion a year
    China North Korea trade: USD 2.8 billion a year
    Chia Pakistan trade: USD 2.5 billion a year

Could you please explain what is intelligent about Chinese strategy to me? Or are you bluffing? Or stating dreams which you want to believe while thinking that I say only what I want to believe?

China's "friends" are beggars. Its enemies feed the Chinese. What is the CPC teaching you sir?


Isn't that proof of an extremely intelligent strategy? That your enemies are actually "feeding" you, despite antagonizing actions? Actually, we're talking about different strategies here. The grand strategy of "allying the far and fighting the near" depends on geography and thus the relative power of the neighboring nations make no difference. What we're talking about now is the EXECUTION of this grand strategy. Central to the goal of subjugation of its neighbors is the need to strengthen oneself(economically and militarily) without sacrificing its sovereignty. Judging by the numbers you just posted, it seems like China is executing this strategy pretty well thus far.

Now, let me ask YOU a question. What is UNintelligent about the Chinese strategy? In what ways have this strategy weakened China? Specifically, has this strategy slowed China's development vis-a-vis the alternatives? Actually, you don't even have to answer them, what I really want to know is what YOU think China should do differently, and how would that benefit China more? Give us some of your thoughts, so that we can be the critic for once.


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