People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby ramana » 19 Oct 2010 03:09

sanjaykumar wrote:In India I can call MMS 'that raghead in Delhi' and in the US Obama routinely gets called 'that uppity n....r in the white house'.

People living in the US know how special it is, but do Indians likewise?



In PRC too they can call MMS and Obama names! See how free they are.

8)

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 03:45

ramana wrote:In PRC too they can call MMS and Obama names! See how free they are.


You just have to rub it in don't you? Do you go up to cripples and dance too? :wink:

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Leonard » 19 Oct 2010 03:58

You just have to rub it in don't you? Do you go up to cripples and dance too?


We just love seeing "Highly Educated" Chinese Folks with a Ph.D., or a M.S. or a M.D., gleefully explaining "Tibetan Genocide", under the garb of "Sovereignty" or "Suzerainty" ---

We just enjoying seeing the Chinese Technocrats & Chinese Scholars explain "Nuclear Proliferation" to rogue Countries like Pakistan, North Korea, Iran --- as political & economic necessities ..

Without any Conscience while blissfully enjoying "the fruits" and "the material comforts" of democractic countries ..

It is this "Lack of Conscience" & "Lack of Ethics" ---> that has resulted in a NATIONALISTIC Chinese population growing up with a "complete lack of respect towards the Environment", "Complete lack of respect to elders", "Complete lack of respect for Human Rights", and "Complete lack of respect for Neighbouring Countries & Cultures -- see Jackie Chang "comments" as a prime example ...

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Shankas » 19 Oct 2010 04:28

ramana wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:In India I can call MMS 'that raghead in Delhi' and in the US Obama routinely gets called 'that uppity n....r in the white house'.

People living in the US know how special it is, but do Indians likewise?



In PRC too they can call MMS and Obama names! See how free they are.

8)


Last November, I entertained a couple of British and an Irish businessman at a Chinese restaurant in London. One of their spouse was from China. The discussion came to India v/s China and I got worked up and stated India will overtake China in 2025 to become the 2nd largest economy. This started a discussion and I stated something similar to this to make my point.
I used Gordon Brown and said I had the freedom to call him out without fear of reprisal in a Chinese restaurant in London, even though I am just a visitor and that I can not call out anyone in CPC at a British Restaurant in Beijing. I saw a brief flicker in the ladies eyes. I have not heard from her husband.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 04:34

Leonard wrote:
We just love seeing "Highly Educated" Chinese Folks with a Ph.D., or a M.S. or a M.D., gleefully explaining "Tibetan Genocide", under the garb of "Sovereignty" or "Suzerainty" ---

We just enjoying seeing the Chinese Technocrats & Chinese Scholars explain "Nuclear Proliferation" to rogue Countries like Pakistan, North Korea, Iran --- as political & economic necessities ..

Without any Conscience while blissfully enjoying "the fruits" and "the material comforts" of democractic countries ..


Wow... step down from your soap box and take a big breath. There's plenty of posters on this very board that suggests genocide and nuclear proliferation as solutions to India's problems. So living in a dictatorship means we don't get to have nice things?

"the fruits" and "the material comforts" of democractic countries? :rotfl:
Good one.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 04:36

Shankas wrote: I stated something similar to this to make my point.


Ah...Freedom. The zinger to every Chinese argument. I am humbled.
Jai Ho!

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby naren » 19 Oct 2010 04:39

TonyMontana wrote:
ramana wrote:In PRC too they can call MMS and Obama names! See how free they are.


You just have to rub it in don't you? Do you go up to cripples and dance too? :wink:


Why so defeatist ? Arent you guys super cool hackers ? Why dont you hack into a downtown signboard or something and call Hu/Wen names :P

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby praksam » 19 Oct 2010 04:54

Bullying China a threat to Africa

http://www.afrol.com/articles/36757

China's bully tactics
http://ht.ly/19qR6h

Tonymontanaji, One pooch if you dont mindji.

Why does china behave like a bully everywhere?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 04:59

naren wrote:Why so defeatist ? Arent you guys super cool hackers ? Why dont you hack into a downtown signboard or something and call Hu/Wen names :P


It's Uber Kool Haxors, thank you very much. As for hacking signboards, /b/.cn is on it. But I can't say any more. Rule 1 and 2 etc.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 05:00

praksam wrote:Bullying China a threat to Africa

http://www.afrol.com/articles/36757

China's bully tactics
http://ht.ly/19qR6h

Tonymontanaji, One pooch if you dont mindji.

Why does china behave like a bully everywhere?


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/26/beijing-hospital-ship-harbors-soft-power/

Carrot and stick? If stick works, why waste the carrot?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby praksam » 19 Oct 2010 05:03

U.N. report: Chinese bullets used to attack peacekeepers in Darfur

http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/post ... _in_darfur

Carrot and stick? If stick works, why waste the carrot?

Isnt it more like 1 Dirty fish polluting the pond

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 19 Oct 2010 05:07

Bah, big words aside, I do get the sense that the world as we know it is slowly but surely (in terms of % world population) moving towards the 'chinese model'/Beijing consensus and away from the pontificatory west. Like singha saar mentioned in the persp thread, the bedrock of the western empire - unkil khan - is in serious or at least nontrivial, decline. A reversal in fortune and direction is possible but not likely.

And maybe that's not such a bad thing - nations moving away from the hypocritical west that is. The cheeni model works for cheena and its application will lead to trouble elsewhere, I suspect. Anyway, by then we will all be safely dead, IMHO. Time indicates before it tells, sometimes. Jai ho, jai hu and all that.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 05:18

praksam wrote:Isnt it more like 1 Dirty fish polluting the pond

I know you are, but what am I? :lol:

Hari Seldon wrote: Time indicates before it tells, sometimes.


Trends and likely outcomes my friend. You got to watch for the second shoulder before that trend reveral.
Last edited by archan on 19 Oct 2010 07:48, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Tony, give up on this habit of personally attacking people. I will start issuing board warnings to you from now on.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby praksam » 19 Oct 2010 05:22

but what am I?


A edited !! :-o
Last edited by archan on 19 Oct 2010 07:49, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: First, that insult #1 is a no-no on BRF. Second, insult word #2 is also not appreciated. If Tony had not instigated this, I would have issued an official warning.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 05:24

praksam wrote:
but what am I?


A chinki Jackass !! :-o


Reported.

Jai ho!

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby manju » 19 Oct 2010 05:25

DavidD wrote:You have to understand that shiv is a "China-agnostic". He doesn't trust any report coming out of China, anecdotal or official. He has his own perception of what is true, and it would take an overwhelming amount of evidence to convince him otherwise, even though the same is not required to reinforce his own version of truth.


I heard this about a decade back..."The only thing you can belive in a chinese newspaper is the Date"

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby praksam » 19 Oct 2010 05:32

Reported. Jai ho!



I honestly answered your question and you report me. chaa, Deception is a part of your nature isnt it?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Hari Seldon » 19 Oct 2010 05:35

praksam wrote:I honestly answered your question and you report me. chaa, Deception is a part of your nature isnt it?

Don't be surprised. I also reported a transparent attempt at trollish behavior on the cheeni's part.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 05:37

Hari Seldon wrote: Don't be surprised. I also reported a transparent attempt at trollish behavior on the cheeni's part.


He initiates the troll and I get reported? The mods have more sense then that.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby naren » 19 Oct 2010 06:03

praksam wrote:
but what am I?


A chinki Jackass !! :-o


saar, the c-word is very very offensive to E/SE Asians - as bad as using the N-word to people of African origin. Most people in India dont understand the history behind the word. Its definitely not us. We ourselves have been subject to such vile racism. Its below our standards to use racial slurs against other people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby praksam » 19 Oct 2010 06:11

[quote="naren saar, the c-word is very very offensive to E/SE Asians - as bad as using the N-word to people of African origin. Most people in India dont understand the history behind the word. Its definitely not us. We ourselves have been subject to such vile racism. Its below our standards to use racial slurs against other people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink[/quote]


My bad . I apologize for using that word. But as you can see he instigated me by indirectly refering me to be a "dirty fish".

All I was trying to do is bring to the chest thumping Tonymontanaji the ku-karm of his motherland by using an adage.
Last edited by praksam on 19 Oct 2010 06:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby svinayak » 19 Oct 2010 06:14

This is not chinese guy. He is some gora in the new zealand who is pretending to be a chinese net hacker.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 06:21

praksam wrote:My bad . I apologize for using that word. But as you can see he instigated me by indirectly refering me to be a "dirty fish".


Apology accepted. But I must take a page from some posters on BRF, in pointing out who started it first.

Acharya wrote:This is not chinese guy. He is some gora in the new zealand who is pretending to be a chinese net hacker.


The plot thickens. I am in fact Cuban. Welcome to the internet.

But let's not derail this thread any longer.
On a serious note, any thoughts on the new Chinese Emperor? From my understanding he's pro-business and he likes to be seen as a curruption buster.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby praksam » 19 Oct 2010 06:58

TonyMontana wrote:
praksam wrote:My bad . I apologize for using that word. But as you can see he instigated me by indirectly refering me to be a "dirty fish".


Apology accepted.


I beg to differ,but I wasn't apologizing to you. My apology was to the forum member/s who found my blurting distasteful to the decorum of this forum.

You are equally at fault for your trollish behaviour.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Leonard » 19 Oct 2010 06:58

"the fruits" and "the material comforts" of democractic countries?
Good one.


Let me list you a few -- just to remind you ...

Chinese Grad Students becoming TAs at major Universities -- without learning how to speak "English" ...
How do Chinese manage to score 90+ % in TOEFL ? -- It must be in Mandarin ..

PS -- These Univ are supported by Tax payers ... Not by Chinese Comm.

Getting Jobs & Becoming Citizens in US, UK, and other European Countries -- Of Course they use "Lawyers"

PRC & PLA have such great Lawyers -- most Chinese Citizens that protest get the GULAG or become "involuntary ORGAN donors".

Of Course in the Western Countries, Chinese freely hold protest marches, get elected to high office, but YET they defend Chinese PLA genocide in Tibet ..

Of Course a "Athlete Wearing a Tibetan Flag at the Olympics" gets arrested or Deported ..

And here you are TonyM a Internet PLA Volunteer (kind of like 1 Million Chinese PLA volunteers in the Korean War --> as explained by a friendly Chinese Ph. D. Comp Science Scholar) -- trying very hard to explain the PLA genocidal tendencies ..

If you were in PRC, critizing Mr Who or Wrong Way -- You would be a "involuntary ORGAN donor" .. :rotfl: :rotfl:

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 19 Oct 2010 06:59

TonyMontana wrote:On a serious note, any thoughts on the new Chinese Emperor? From my understanding he's pro-business and he likes to be seen as a curruption buster.


The CPC, like Allah, works in mysterious ways.

Xi Jinping was produced out of obscurity a few months ago and it amazes me that people have to discuss whether he is pro business or anti-corruption after he has been named. In days gone by a nobleman with a pretty wife would have to worry about which princeling would become king because one of them was after his wife and if that guy became king the nobleman would be toast.

Jiang Zemin was nominated by the greatly respected Deng Xiaping. But even when the former took over chairmanship of the CPC (Party) Deng retained control of the CMC (Central Military Commission) for a while before Jiang Zemin became the top chief with control over party (CPC) and military (CMC).

Jiang Zemin did worse than that to Hu Jintao. Hu too came out of obscurity and was suddenly named like Xi Jinping. But Jiang Zemin did not hand over control of the CMC (the military) when Hu took over. Jiang Zemin placed several generals loyal to him in the CMC whose retirement could not come till the end of Hu's tenure. This actually led to a splitting of power in 2002-2004 with Hu as party chief and nominal "President" with Jiang Zemin controlling the military in the background. The crisis between Hu and Jiang showed up during the SARS epidemic which started in PLA military barracks but was kept secret by China until dozens of deaths had occurred. Another episode was the death of 70 Chinese sailors in a submarine that was found drifting by fishermen.

Naming Li Xinping is only one side of the issue. How much influence will Hu Jintao want to retain. What do the military think of Li? Will he become supreme leader right away or will there be a power split. A few senior military commanders will retire with Hu. Totally new faces will have to come in. Are those new faces going to be Hu appointees. The party is technically supposed to be supreme over the military but power can be split between the two and some regional leaders in China can have great influence. Only time will tell which way Li will go.

As I see it the Chinese military has tasted money and self employment. Hu has had to bend over backwards to virtually double salaries in the armed forces to keep the military happy and away from the businesses. The level of corruption in this regard is completely unknown and anything a person like me says will be dismissed in Chian exactly like in the article that you earlier quoted:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ssion.html
"Some foreigners with full bellies and nothing better to do engage in finger-pointing at us,"

All politicians in India say such things. But they can be voted out and their precedents are usually known or can be obtained by the "Right to Information" act.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Arjun » 19 Oct 2010 07:09

naren wrote:Its below our standards to use racial slurs against other people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink

How is racial slur defined? Is 'Paki' a racial slur? - I understand that is how it is percieved by our TFTA friends, and not as short-hand for Pakistani. Chinki is either short-hand for Chinese or it is derived from the facial characterisitic. Is that necessarily derogatory?

If Chinki is derogatory, why not similar yardsticks for Gora, why not SDRE (infinitely worse!!)???

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 07:15

praksam wrote:I beg to differ,but I wasn't apologizing to you.


It's okay. I forgive you.

Leonard wrote: Let me list you a few -- just to remind you ...


Sorry, I don't get what you mean. Are you saying we don't deserve nice things?

shiv wrote: All politicians in India say such things. But they can be voted out and their precedents are usually known or can be obtained by the "Right to Information" act.


Interesting analysis as always. But regarding the qouted part. Without qouting any numbers, it's interesting to see India ruled by the same family for such a major portion of time post independence. Did they really do that good of a job? Or is Indian democracy not the industry standard?

But I do agree, Hu wouldn't hand over all of his powers. But eventually he will. Hu did have his own inititives when he came into power and he's viewed generally in China in a good light. The Chinese people are keenly watching the new emperor as appointed by Hu. We hope he will keep the good time rolling.

P.s. No one likes Jiang. Everyone loves Deng.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 07:20

Arjun wrote: If Chinki is derogatory, why not similar yardsticks for Gora, why not SDRE (infinitely worse!!)???


I think it's more for forum reputation. Looks bad to the uninitiated. No one, to me at least, knows about Gora or SDRE outside of BRF and I expected a bit of accepted racism to Pakistanis. Use the word Chinki too many times, BRF might show up in a search result for Stormfront. Not a good look.

P.s. Call me what you want. Like water off a duck's back. It says a lot more about you then me.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby shiv » 19 Oct 2010 07:22

TonyMontana wrote:Interesting analysis as always. But regarding the qouted part. Without qouting any numbers, it's interesting to see India ruled by the same family for such a major portion of time post independence. Did they really do that good of a job? Or is Indian democracy not the industry standard?


Wrong thread. We shall talk about China here. When you get all your information from BRF you believe that only one family leads India. If you look carefully at India you find that Indians are led by a million different voices. If that one family had a choice they could easily say "Let all Indians have toilets to crap into" and it would be done. But that is not how things work in India. In fact things do not work easily in India because Indians are not easily led by any single person or coterie no matter what BRF may tell you. You stay on here long enough and you will discover that the Pope actually rules India.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 07:28

shiv wrote: Wrong thread. We shall talk about China here. When you get all your information from BRF you believe that only one family leads India. If you look carefully at India you find that Indians are led by a million different voices. If that one family had a choice they could easily say "Let all Indians have toilets to crap into" and it would be done. But that is not how things work in India. In fact things do not work easily in India because Indians are not easily led by any single person or coterie no matter what BRF may tell you.


Good call. The more you know.

shiv wrote:You stay on here long enough and you will discover that the Pope actually rules India.


Pretty low opinion of BRF for such a celebrated poster. :shock:
BRF has it's moments. But there are still gems to be found.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby naren » 19 Oct 2010 07:32

Arjun wrote:
naren wrote:Its below our standards to use racial slurs against other people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink

How is racial slur defined?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_slur : "an ethnic slur is a term or word[s] used to insult on the basis of race, ethnicity, or nationality. "

Is 'Paki' a racial slur? - I understand that is how it is percieved by our TFTA friends, and not as short-hand for Pakistani.


Not in this forum AFAIK. May be its cool because that definition includes us, just as it is cool for African origins to refer to themselves as "nigga" ?

Chinki is either short-hand for Chinese or it is derived from the facial characterisitic. Is that necessarily derogatory?


That word has an history associated with that. When you use that word, you are pulling up the historical bad memories and imposing that on the target audience. I guess the problem is how the word is "perceived" rather than the word "conveys".

If Chinki is derogatory, why not similar yardsticks for Gora, why not SDRE (infinitely worse!!)???


There were no hate crimes associated with "gora". When it is, it will probably be not cool to use it anymore.

SDRE - I guess its a unique characteristic of Indians. We take the vile terms (like "hindu") and proudly embrace it. A smart way to reply to insulters if you ask me - you dont stoop to their level, you convey that you are not offended by it and show to them that their efforts to annoy you have spectacularly failed. 8)

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Arjun » 19 Oct 2010 07:45

TonyMontana wrote:
Arjun wrote: If Chinki is derogatory, why not similar yardsticks for Gora, why not SDRE (infinitely worse!!)???


I think it's more for forum reputation. Looks bad to the uninitiated. No one, to me at least, knows about Gora or SDRE outside of BRF and I expected a bit of accepted racism to Pakistanis. Use the word Chinki too many times, BRF might show up in a search result for Stormfront. Not a good look.

P.s. Call me what you want. Like water off a duck's back. It says a lot more about you then me.

I was not the one using the term, and nor have ever used it....The issue interested me precisely because to me it said as much about the Chinese and their insecurities as about the folks who used the phrase. One way is to view the word as a derogatory term and be thin-skinned about it; another is to say that once China rises the same term would be used in a positive sense. Secondly, whatever yardstick one applies has to be reciprocal. In that sense, India has always been awash with folks from different regions using terms for people from other regions - and there is the debate even within India as to whether these are pejorative terms or whether the connotations rise and fall with the positive and negative perceptions about the region. I understand the Chinese have similar terms that they use for whites and other classes of foriegners? Would those be considered as racist?

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 07:56

Arjun wrote: I was not the one using the term, and nor have ever used it....The issue interested me precisely because to me it said as much about the Chinese and their insecurities as about the folks who used the phrase. One way is to view the word as a derogatory term and be thin-skinned about it; another is to say that once China rises the same term would be used in a positive sense.


Hey cuz, all good, all good. I was using the "general" you. Not you specifically. (p.s. Cuz in this case stands for cousin.)

As for the "word", let me tell you this story. Once upon a time, one of Richard Pryor's white wives used the word "nigger" during a party, where the word "nigger" was used amongst the black guests. Richard took his wife outside. Pointed at the stars in the sky and said to her:"Honey, tell me which one of these stars is a nigger?"

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Arjun » 19 Oct 2010 08:06

TonyMontana wrote:Without qouting any numbers, it's interesting to see India ruled by the same family for such a major portion of time post independence. Did they really do that good of a job? Or is Indian democracy not the industry standard?

Don't often agree with you, but on this one point you are absolutely right - Indian democracy is a sham, or if we want to be generous about it a "work in progress"... Anyway this is OT, so no replies here.

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Shankas » 19 Oct 2010 08:11

TonyMontana wrote:
Shankas wrote: I stated something similar to this to make my point.


Ah...Freedom. The zinger to every Chinese argument. I am humbled.
Jai Ho!


"Bandar kya jane adrak ka swad" - Old Indian Proverb

We Indian's speak before we think...which sometimes leads to foot-in-mouth
But ask any of us...we would not want it any other way

You have to think before they speak...God forbid...sorry CPC forbid it may lead to losing face

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 08:13

Shankas wrote:"Bandar kya jane adrak ka swad" - Old Indian Proverb

Would love to know a translation of this.

Shankas wrote:You have to think before they speak...God forbid...sorry CPC forbid it may lead to losing face


What does every Chinese political joke start with? A look over your shoulder. :rotfl:

Shankas
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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Shankas » 19 Oct 2010 08:23

TonyMontana wrote:
Shankas wrote:"Bandar kya jane adrak ka swad" - Old Indian Proverb

Would love to know a translation of this.

Sorry, should have posted it

Bandar kya jane adrak ka swad - Old Indian Proverb

Translation: Monkey doesn't know the taste of ginger

Meaning: Those who don't know, can't appreciate

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby TonyMontana » 19 Oct 2010 08:28

Shankas wrote: Meaning: Those who don't know, can't appreciate


Good one. Learns something everyday. Will definately bust out a monkey/ginger comment next time I see my Indian friends. See if they get impressed. :D

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Re: People's Republic of China Nov 22, 2009

Postby Shankas » 19 Oct 2010 08:43

TonyMontana wrote:
Shankas wrote: Meaning: Those who don't know, can't appreciate


Learns something everyday. Will definately bust out a monkey/ginger comment next time I see my Indian friends. See if they get impressed. :D


Your comment suggests otherwise, and just reinforced the proverb for me.


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