26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby disha » 27 Nov 2018 02:12

ramana wrote:I think that Ujwal Nikam turned nikamma to use a young 9 year victim and not know the social ostracization she would undergo.


First of all social ostracization should not be justified or rationalized at all. Nobody could predict the social ostracization would have occurred this way.

Second you are using a very wrong argument to justify social ostracization. The school should have received her as a hero. Instead she had to bounce around other schools.

We are not in Nikam's shoes to call him a nikamma while as a prosecutor he might be trying all options to make sure that Kasab gets death sentence. If a 9-year old can give evidence pointing out how heinous Kasab was and adds to the body of knowledge that ensures his death sentence, then yes it must be used.

As it is, media white washed Kasab's role and while his trial was underway, several urban naxals were circulating a campaign to "save kasab". The terrorists came prepared to tie the heinous crime on "Hindu terrorists" and the then pusillanimous government with effete shivraj patil was ready to indulge.

A 9-year old hero and a survivor of the terrorist attack gets socially ostracized and only now the media wakes up (after 10 years). Even now media and its political cohorts do daily rudaali on how Kasab was just a tool in the hands of the larger "terrorism" which has "no religion". Wasn't it Darkha Butt's coverage which gave further directions to the terrorists on countering the counter-terror ops? What happened to her? She got Padma Shri.

And another thing is late Tukaram Omble was an Asst Sub Inspector but all was armed with is a lathi.
What kind of a force cannot issue 9mm pistol to sub-inspector rank officers?


And who stopped the CM/HM of Mah & PM/HM of India to properly train & arm the police forces appropriately?

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby disha » 27 Nov 2018 02:14


ramana
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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby ramana » 27 Nov 2018 02:41

Anyway I am for re-opening the investigation into local support that was shut off early on.
Lets see.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Amber G. » 27 Nov 2018 10:07

When all is said and done..
Ten years on, the group suspected to be behind the deadly Mumbai attacks is still operating freely in Pakistan.
For India, US and the world - highest priority should be to bring Lakhvi, Saeed to justice.
Why is Pakistan reluctant to bring Lashkar-e-Taiba to justice?

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Nov 2018 10:43

ramana wrote:Anyway I am for re-opening the investigation into local support that was shut off early on.
Lets see.


Yes it would have been impossible for 10 strangers to find thier way around Mumbai, even Mumbai police struggled to find Nariman House, it was Mahesh Bhatt's son who helped David Headley and got away scott free. Something has been whitewashed, people Former Union Minister Antulay didnt think it was bad and Burney, Digvijay singh etc stated it was RSS conspiracy. Can anyone survive even 1 day in INC if they call SG and RG as criminals.

And why is the attempted repeat of 26/11 on 31/12/14 people whitewashed, were the Nanha mujahids blew themselves up, our coast guard captured blowing themselves up, they are just fishermen who did suicide right?

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Nov 2018 00:29


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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby ramana » 28 Nov 2018 01:37

Amber G. wrote:When all is said and done..
Ten years on, the group suspected to be behind the deadly Mumbai attacks is still operating freely in Pakistan.
For India, US and the world - highest priority should be to bring Lakhvi, Saeed to justice.
Why is Pakistan reluctant to bring Lashkar-e-Taiba to justice?


AmberG, InshaGanesha that too shall happen.

Its folks like us with long memories who sustain the drive.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Nov 2018 10:37

Can anyone explain to me why no discussion on the attempted repeat of 26/11 on 31/12/14. Yes the same people who said no surgical strikes said these were fishermen and hence buried?

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby ramana » 28 Nov 2018 23:59

Shameek wrote:Article on Mr. Arun Jadhav, the head Constable who survived the Qualis attack.

Link

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby UlanBatori » 29 Nov 2018 07:46

I am going to post a :(( here, apologies in advance. But this rankles. Reproducing a post from Unsually Impeccable Sources.
I admire General VK Singh. No 2 ways about it.
So I was delighted 2 b in the audience a couple of dins b4 Nov. 26 in Yoo EssAy where he was speaking.
Excellent speech about new Passport offices, cutting red tape etc etc. Inspiring. Fully lived up to my admiration of him.
Then a local US rep spoke, he is a well-known, sincere friend of desh.
Then the General took the mike again - and perhaps he was not speaking from prepared notes. Which makes it all the worse: what is inside him really?
You had 9/11. We had 26/11. ... etc etc.


And then the Gen. was praised for being the First Indian-American to Win the designation of Fellow of the US War College in Pittsburgh. And he didn't raise an eyebrow at THAT description.

Come ON! "26/11" being compared with "9/11" as India's experience of terrorism, is so bloody insulting as to make one wonder what they are breathing in Dilli these days. Why brown-nose every US petty politician?
And why does India's most admired General alive today, and a Minister of State of the Union Govt of India, allow himself to be described as an "Indian-AMERICAN"?

I came away very disappointed and sad about the thoughtless behavior of GOI, even the top, most decorated veterans. Is India no different from Pakistan?

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Shameek » 29 Nov 2018 21:00

I will try to find open source information on current Mumbai Police arms and training if available. Hopefully things have improved in a decade.
It is not just having weapons and the initial training that matters but also practice, re-training or re-certification to keep their skills and confidence high. There were quite a few occasions on 26/11 where one bullet finding its mark could have saved many lives and changed the course of events.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Virendra » 29 Nov 2018 21:19

Problems exist not just in equipment, but on training, practice, operational readiness and protocols.
The railway station had plenty of cops with rifles. None of them opened fire even when the terrorists were in plain sight.
Why was the zeal to fight back missing? Goes beyond material measures and moves into mind matters.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby chetak » 29 Nov 2018 21:25

Aditya_V wrote:
ramana wrote:Anyway I am for re-opening the investigation into local support that was shut off early on.
Lets see.


Yes it would have been impossible for 10 strangers to find thier way around Mumbai, even Mumbai police struggled to find Nariman House, it was Mahesh Bhatt's son who helped David Headley and got away scott free. Something has been whitewashed, people Former Union Minister Antulay didnt think it was bad and Burney, Digvijay singh etc stated it was RSS conspiracy. Can anyone survive even 1 day in INC if they call SG and RG as criminals.

And why is the attempted repeat of 26/11 on 31/12/14 people whitewashed, were the Nanha mujahids blew themselves up, our coast guard captured blowing themselves up, they are just fishermen who did suicide right?


That little shit has written a book or rather someone else wrote it for him and he put his anguta chaap on it. Don't know what its about. Though I have access to it, just couldn't bring myself to read it.

Its called "Headley and I" by Rahul Bhatt and Hussain Zaidi

A pox on his house.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Nov 2018 17:07

Virendra wrote:Problems exist not just in equipment, but on training, practice, operational readiness and protocols.
The railway station had plenty of cops with rifles. None of them opened fire even when the terrorists were in plain sight.
Why was the zeal to fight back missing? Goes beyond material measures and moves into mind matters.

That's because the eco system does not reward brave cops , takes care of families and recruitment process was flawed with bribes taken which the recruits paid by loans. The whole was designed to reward D company types.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby UlanBatori » 30 Nov 2018 18:40

Virendra wrote:Problems exist not just in equipment, but on training, practice, operational readiness and protocols.
The railway station had plenty of cops with rifles. None of them opened fire even when the terrorists were in plain sight.
Why was the zeal to fight back missing? Goes beyond material measures and moves into mind matters.


Following the lead of their Central Government netas perhaps?

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Shameek » 30 Nov 2018 20:51

Virendra wrote:Problems exist not just in equipment, but on training, practice, operational readiness and protocols.
The railway station had plenty of cops with rifles. None of them opened fire even when the terrorists were in plain sight.
Why was the zeal to fight back missing? Goes beyond material measures and moves into mind matters.


The zeal to fight back may also be related to the confidence in themselves. If training/practice was lacking they may not have had the confidence in their weapons or their own abilities. Even then, there were cops that fought back with whatever they had at CST and the Taj.
Not to compare, but even the trigger-happy US cops take casualties most of the time they go up against a loony with a gun. These were highly trained terrorists.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Virendra » 04 Dec 2018 20:31

Shameek wrote:
Virendra wrote:Problems exist not just in equipment, but on training, practice, operational readiness and protocols.
The railway station had plenty of cops with rifles. None of them opened fire even when the terrorists were in plain sight.
Why was the zeal to fight back missing? Goes beyond material measures and moves into mind matters.


The zeal to fight back may also be related to the confidence in themselves. If training/practice was lacking they may not have had the confidence in their weapons or their own abilities. Even then, there were cops that fought back with whatever they had at CST and the Taj.
Not to compare, but even the trigger-happy US cops take casualties most of the time they go up against a loony with a gun. These were highly trained terrorists.


Well, I understand where you're coming from.
But think about this, when the Jewish centre was stormed by militants. Local civilians around tried to thwart the attack by throwing stones at them.
They had to scoot and hide when terrorists opened fire by automatic fire-arms.
Two things :-
- Citizenry is woefully disarmed
- Citizenry still had zeal to fight back.
Coming to the CST and on what cops did there or did not. Go through what the news photographer and eye witness Sebastian D'Souza had to say. It was his photographs that flashed in media around the world.
"There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything. At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, "Shoot them, they're sitting ducks!" but they just didn't shoot back. I told some policemen the gunmen had moved towards the rear of the station but they refused to follow them. What is the point if having policemen with guns if they refuse to use them? I only wish I had a gun rather than a camera."


Regards,
Virendra

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby ramana » 05 Dec 2018 02:19

If I remember one policemen did use his bolt action rifle in anger but the unit was so old that bullet went awry and he was killed. Most of the weapons issued were old and worn out.

We may berate the cops but it a cop ASI Tukaram Omble who went after the terrorists with his lathi.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Shameek » 26 Nov 2019 21:13

Putting in a prayer for all the victims and their families. We will never forget you.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby ashvin » 26 Nov 2019 21:36

Never forgive and never forget!

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Manish_P » 26 Nov 2019 21:43

ramana wrote:If I remember one policemen did use his bolt action rifle in anger but the unit was so old that bullet went awry and he was killed. Most of the weapons issued were old and worn out.

We may berate the cops but it a cop ASI Tukaram Omble who went after the terrorists with his lathi.


Shri Omble had an army background too.

Never Forget, Never Ever Forgive.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby ArjunPandit » 26 Nov 2019 21:49

not a single week goes by when i dont feel the angst of tukaram ji..taking on ak47 armed well trained guys with a lathi is embracing martyrdom..
i have been writing a poem ..not yet final but on this solemn occasion felt like sharing with my fellow brethren..it is pent up angst over last two decades...it is one of many ..i will delete this after today ..
.....
deleted..

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Nov 2019 01:44

ramana wrote:If I remember one policemen did use his bolt action rifle in anger but the unit was so old that bullet went awry and he was killed. Most of the weapons issued were old and worn out.
We may berate the cops but it a cop ASI Tukaram Omble who went after the terrorists with his lathi.

I remember one policeman throwing his useless rifle at the terrorists in disgust in the Train station CC TV. Most of the police were armed with lathis only. Giving the police old and worn out rifles is a problem. Another is the lack of training. Each policeman should be sent to the range on a quarterly basis to re-qualify and remain current on the use of the weapon. But this is very expensive to maintain. Instead we continue to spend money on VIP protection and leave the mango people to their fate.
Gautam

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby nachiket » 27 Nov 2019 04:26

Unbelievable story from Shiv Aroor. I find it hard to believe an IAF officer working at HQ no less would seriously make such an insane suggestion.

The untold tale of armed Sukhois on 26/11

But lost in the sands of 11 years is a surreal little tale, recounted to me over the years by pilots. A tale reflective perhaps of the Indian system's nerves after being caught totally off guard by a small group of commando-style terrorists.

Amid early discussions on military intervention in 26/11, a senior IAF officer is said to have wondered aloud at the Air Force Headquarters as to why a Sukhoi Su-30MKI jet fighter from Pune couldn't simply be scrambled to drop a precision laser-guided bomb (LGB) with pinpoint accuracy through the room at the Taj where the Pakistani terrorists were last known to be hiding. It is unclear who the officer was. What is known is that the suggestion was made with complete seriousness. That suggestion has since become a quiet part of air force lore from a time when the leadership was very much inclined to strike targets across the border.
It is difficult to corroborate conversations, but the officer who made the suggestion was, again with some seriousness, informed that the idea was absurd for a variety of reasons, including collateral damage, the impossibility of sanitising the area around the Taj for such a mission and the idea of dropping a bomb on one's own territory. One officer is said to have wondered who would pay to rebuild Ratan Tata's prized property if a mission like that was ever to be carried out.


And one tidbit of info that I wasn't aware of

IAF Su-30s remained ready at the northern air base well into December 2008 in anticipation of orders to conduct strikes very much like the Balakot mission a decade later. In late December, a pair of Su-30s, armed with air-to-air missiles, was flown to Bengaluru to remain in operational readiness on a fresh intelligence input on the terror groups using light aircraft to conduct kamikaze strikes on the Kalpakkam nuclear facility. The Sukhois returned to their home base in Pune after the input evaporated.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Nov 2019 07:33

Isn't there a slight geographical anomaly in the above? What would Su-30s with AA missiles do, sitting in Bluru, about a light airplane kamikaze on Kalpakkam?

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Gerard » 27 Nov 2019 07:49

Pompeo urges justice over Mumbai attacks
Addressing reporters on the 11th anniversary of the siege that killed more than 160 people including six Americans, Pompeo said the "brutality of the attack shocked the entire world."

"It is an affront to the victims and their families that those who planned the Mumbai attacks have still not been convicted," Pompeo said.

Pakistan in July arrested Hafiz Saeed, a firebrand cleric who heads the UN-designated terrorist group Jamaat-ud-Dawa, shortly before Prime Minister Imran Khan visited the United States.

Saeed has mostly lived freely in Pakistan since the attacks, enraging India which demanded his prosecution. The United States also put a $10 million bounty on his head.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby UlanBatori » 27 Nov 2019 09:51

Pakis are very disappointing: $10M bounty and its going a-waste? I would have expected him to have been killed about 10 times by now, going by Al Qaeda #3 and Bag-daddy standards.
I guess there is a small problem: The sorts of ppl who might collect the $10M may not be well-advised to come to the US to collect it. :eek:

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby chetak » 27 Nov 2019 12:51

Never forgive, never forget #MumbaiTerrorAttack



Image

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby chetak » 27 Nov 2019 14:34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5jW5C-fqrA&feature=youtu.be


Explosive Audio Tapes Expose 26/11 Terror Plot
Feb 8, 2016




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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Rony » 27 Nov 2019 19:37

https://twitter.com/WrongDoc/status/111 ... 82081?s=20

#ConspiracyTheory #Thread

Hemant Karkare was Congress’ handled officer. He actually did actively, on the instructions of his handlers, framed false charges against Sadhvi Pragya and others.

According to the US intelligence, #Samjhauta and #Malegaon blasts were done on the LeT instructions. (See my previous tweet about this).
https://twitter.com/wrongdoc/status/111 ... 47205?s=21
Karkare was, maybe indirectly, being played by LeT with Congress being in at some level.

By the time of of 26/11 attacks, the LeT / Pakistan intelligence/ Congress mechanism figured they must eliminate Karkare because he was a risk for blowing the plot. He was strategically on duty and was killed with three bullets - to be sure to be sure.

Risk point 1- Karkare was interviewed on the day before 26/11 by @RanaAyyub as she herself claimed.
Somebody knew this timing was going to be important. Somebody knew what was coming next day.

Risk point 2- Karkare, being the Chief of ATS, decided to take a couple of cops and get into the action directly instead of strategically manning the control and tactics situation. This is parallel to Dr Kafeel Khan going to drive cylinders instead of managing patients in ward.

Interestingly, The bullets that killed Karkare apparently didn’t match those of the 26/11 terrorists including Kasab’s weapons (look it up). This strengthens the idea that Karkare was eliminated using the ‘fog of war’ cover of the terror attack.

Risk 3- Karkare talked to @digvijaya_28 on the day of 26/11 attack. This is on record. What did they talk about is only for Digvijay to claim (truth or lie) and everyone else to speculate.

Now the final and potentially explosive thing. Karkare’s wife Kavita Karkare died in 2014. I have a strong suspicion this was an assassination, not a natural death from sickness. I’ll tell you why.

First, she’d be likely confidante of Hemant and a risk of disclosures.

The reports said Kavita Karkare suffered ‘brain hemorrhage’ and that this was not suspicious because she was hypertensive. She was 57. She died rather quickly with hemorrhage and the doctor’s claim sounds rather pedestrian. More suspicious activity comes next.

Inducing brain hemorrhage for assassinating someone would not be difficult. CIA and other spy agencies have been in past accused of causing brain hemorrhage for assassination. Lenin’s death by hemorrhage was considered suspicious.

Now the explosive part. Kavita Karkare’s kidneys & eyes were donated. If she had hypertension so bad she’d suffer massive brain hemorrhage that killed her within two days, her kidneys would not be fit for transplant. Her brain hemorrhage wasn’t ‘natural’.

The Karkare couple were the ‘loose ends’. They have been tied off. They likely knew their fate, that’s why they packed away their two daughters to USA. How many honest IPS officers can afford two daughters studying in the US ?

Had Kasab not been caught alive, 26/11 would’ve been clearly blamed as #HinduTerror

1- Kasab and other terrorists had fake Indian IDs and Hindu Temple wristbands

2-With Karkare’s tactically timed interview with @RanaAyyub the day before 26/11 & his phone call with @digvijaya_28
on the day of 26/11, the ground was being prepared to martyr Karkare with ‘he was under threat from #HinduTerror’ plot to be garnished with Kasab’s ‘Hindu thread’.

People kept fooling themselves that the @INCIndia government executed Afzal Guru and Kasab in a haste before 2014 elections to gain some Hindu votes. Nope. They executed them so the imminent Modi government wouldn’t have access to interrogating them.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby chetak » 30 Nov 2019 12:16

26/11: While ISI tried saving a breaking Lashkar, some in India manufactured a Hindu terror plot



26/11: While ISI tried saving a breaking Lashkar, some in India manufactured a Hindu terror plot

By Vicky Nanjappa
29, Nov 2019,

26/11: While ISI tried saving a breaking Lashkar, some in India manufactured a Hindu terror plot

Highlights
While an immediate response to the 26/11 terror attacks in Mumbai was not to be found, what’s more surprising is how a conspiracy was manufactured to blame the attack on the Hindus. But why did the terror outfit target India?

Earlier this week, India observed the 11th anniversary of the Mumbai 26/11 attacks. It was undoubtedly one of the most horrific events that India has witnessed.

Watching the attack unfold, any child would have said that this was textbook Pakistan. The grit, hatred and manner with which the 10 jihadis undertook the attack made it clear that they were highly trained operatives from Pakistan.

During a rally in April 2019, Prime Minister Narendra Modi said that instead of giving Pakistan a befitting reply to the 26/11 attack, the Congress decided to affix the word terror with Hindu. The Congress conspired to change the entire discourse of the probe.

A manufactured conspiracy:

It was clear that there was a deliberate attempt to manufacture a conspiracy by trying to blame the attack on the Hindus. There were arguments that some of the terrorists were sporting saffron bands on their hands and hence they may have been Hindus. Anyone who has followed terror closely would be aware of the fact that terrorists are told to deliberately divert the attention of investigators.

Ajmal Kasab, too, claimed during his interrogation that they were advised by their handlers to sport saffron bands so that the blame would not be on Pakistan. For someone to claim that it was the handiwork of Hindus just because they were sporting saffron bands, sounds silly and childish. It would also be interesting to note that David Headley in his confession said that it was he who purchased the saffron bands for the attackers.

Further, it was said that the then ATS chief Hemant Karkare was targeted because he had exposed a Hindu angle in the Malegaon blast case. Every inquiry disproved this theory and it has become clear that Karkare, Ashok Kamte and Vijay Salaskar fell to the bullets of the terrorists from Pakistan.

The Congress which has been accused of not acting enough against Pakistan was further embarrassed by its leader, Digvijaya Singh. Not only did he make wild allegations against the Hindu leaders, but took part in the launch of the book, “RSS ki Saazish-26/11.

AR Antulay of the Congress went on to say that there is more than what meets the eye and there should be a probe into the killing of Hemant Karkare. Singh said that Karkare had told him hours before the strike that he feared for his safety from Hindu extremists.

Group editor of Roznama Rashtriya Sahara, Aziz Burney went a step ahead and blamed the CIA, Mossad, Narendra Modi and RSS for the attack.

To top it all, the former Inspector General of Police, SM Mushrif wrote a book titled,” Who killed Karkare? The real face of terrorism in India.” While he blamed the overall attack on the Pakistanis, he had a different take on the killing of Karkare. He said that the lack of intelligence led to the attack and some right-wing groups took advantage of the same and killed Karkare. Knowing fully well that Karkare would come on to the road to battle the terrorists, the right-wing groups took advantage. They synchronised the attack to perfection and killed him, he had also said.

The Kasab, Headley files and thank you Tukaram Omble:

Had it not been for the valiant efforts of Tukarram Omble, we would have never got Ajmal Kasab alive. He took nearly 40 bullets in his chest to capture Kasab alive, before he laid down his own life.

It was clear that Mumbai Police at the start were shooting in the dark and the entire episode had become all too overwhelming to them.

However, the case began to take shape with the interrogation of Kasab. He began his interrogation by saying, “I am Ajmal Kasab, I am from Pakistan and I am part of the Lashkar-e-Taiba. All through he spoke about the involvement of the Pakistanis in the attack. Several times he refers to Hafiz Saeed as ‘chacha’ in his investigation.

Kasab also speaks about Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi and several others in the Lashkar-e-Tayiba. He further refers to the maritime training given by former officers of the Pakistan military.

When the David Headley angle cropped up, the investigations went up to another level. Headley detailed the role of the Pakistan establishment and spoke about his handler, Said Mir. This mystery man Mir is believed to be part of the ISI, who was later moved to the Lashkar-e-Taiba to oversee the 26/11 attack.

The rumblings within the Lashkar-e-Taiba:

There is something that very few know about the origins of the 26/11 attack. It was originally planned by Ilyas Kashmiri, the chiefs of the Al-Qaeda’s 313 Brigade. He had planned several attacks in India and hitting Mumbai was part of it.

Kashmiri had planned a major operation for the eradication of India of Ghazb-e-Hind and had even begun training 10 jihadis for the operation. During his meeting with Headley, he had discussed the same. The entire operation was to begin in India.

It was around that time that there was a lot of unease within the Lashkar. Several cadres of the outfit were upset with the top leadership as well as the ISI as they felt that they were giving away too much to the Americans. They felt that Pakistan was mum about the US operations in Afghanistan as a result of which their brothers within the Taliban were dying.

Many had started to revolt against the leadership and said that they wanted to quit the outfit and go fight alongside their brothers in Afghanistan.

This was a panic situation for Saeed and the ISI. The ISI and Pakistan army could not afford to let the Lashkar-e-Taiba collapse as it was their most trusted proxies. At any cost the ISI wanted a diversion for the cadres of the outfit. They felt that it would be best to hit a big Indian target, and this would divert the attention of the cadres and keep them happy. At any cost the ISI did not want the Lashkar cadres breaking away and leaving for Afghanistan.

The ISI got wind that Ilyas Kashmiri was planning a large-scale attack in India. The ISI wanted no interference by the Al-Qaeda in India as it wanted only the Jaish-e-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Taiba to focus on India. The ISI then approached Kashmiri, who originally hails from Kotli in Pakistan. Kashmiri was easy for the ISI to manoeuvre since he was once part of the Special Services Group of the Pakistan army.

It was agreed that Kashmir would stay away from India and the attack he had been planning would be staged by the Lashkar-e-Taiba.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby chetak » 30 Nov 2019 13:30

This was published in the dawn on August 03, 2015.

what more proof do Indian CT experts need to see the truth about the origins of 26/11.


Mumbai attacks trial

Mumbai attacks trial

Tariq Khosa
August 03, 2015

The writer is former DG, FIA.

THE Mumbai terror attacks were claimed by India to be its 9/11. For more than 66 hours, 10 highly trained militants played havoc in India’s commercial metropolis, spraying bullets and shedding the blood of innocent civilians and tourists in November 2008, bringing the two nuclear neighbours to the brink of an all-out war.

In Ufa, Russia on July 10, 2015, both the prime ministers of Pakistan and India were “prepared to discuss all outstanding issues,” and both the leaders “condemned terrorism in all its forms” and agreed to cooperate with each other “to eliminate this menace from South Asia”. Therefore, we in Pakistan should welcome this development wholeheartedly.

Didn’t we suffer the pain and agony of our own 9/11 on Dec 16, 2014, at the hands of the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan and its surrogates and aren’t we as a nation determined to root out terrorism in all its forms from our soil? The answer is obviously a resounding yes and I have no doubt that the political and security leadership have resolved to eliminate the scourge of terrorism, militancy and extremism through the counterterrorism National Action Plan. The duality and distinction between good and bad Taliban, including all militants and terrorists, should stand removed from Miramshah to Muridke, from Karachi to Quetta.

Against this backdrop, the agreement between PMs Sharif and Modi in Ufa to approve the meeting of their national security advisers to “discuss all issues related to terrorism” was a welcome development. Pakistan’s concerns in respect of the botched investigation into the Samjhauta Express bombing and alleged covert support to the Baloch insurgency as well as reported ‘terror financing’ both in Karachi and Fata by Indian and other foreign agencies should not only be highlighted but concrete evidence presented to put a stop to such means of non-kinetic warfare resorted to by sleuths from both sides to further their so-called national interests.

There are very knowledgeable and competent professionals with investigation and intelligence background in Pakistan who can meet the Indian security officials and talk as professionals. They too have many skeletons in their cupboards. So why fight shy? Let both India and Pakistan admit their mistakes and follies and learn to co-exist while trying to find solutions to their thorny issues through peaceful means.

Pakistan has to deal with the Mumbai mayhem, planned and launched from its soil. This requires facing the truth and admitting mistakes. The entire state security apparatus must ensure that the perpetrators and masterminds of the ghastly terror attacks are brought to justice. The case has lingered on for far too long. Dilatory tactics by the defendants, frequent change of trial judges, and assassination of the case prosecutor as well as retracting from original testimony by some key witnesses have been serious setbacks for the prosecutors. However, cognizance was taken by the Islamabad High Court which directed the trial to be concluded within two months.

The following facts are pertinent. First, Ajmal Kasab was a Pakistani national, whose place of residence and initial schooling as well as his joining a banned militant organisation was established by the investigators. Second, the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) terrorists were imparted training near Thatta, Sindh and launched by sea from there. The training camp was identified and secured by the investigators. The casings of the explosive devices used in Mumbai were recovered from this training camp and duly matched. Third, the fishing trawler used by the terrorists for hijacking an Indian trawler in which they sailed to Mumbai, was brought back to harbour, then painted and concealed. It was recovered by the investigators and connected to the accused. Fourth, the engine of the dinghy abandoned by the terrorists near Mumbai harbour contained a patent number through which the investigators traced its import from Japan to Lahore and then to a Karachi sports shop from where an LeT-linked militant purchased it along with the dinghy. The money trail was followed and linked to the accused who was arrested. Fifth, the ops room in Karachi, from where the operation was directed, was also identified and secured by the investigators. The communications through Voice over Internet Protocol were unearthed. Sixth, the alleged commander and his deputies were identified and arrested. Seventh, a couple of foreign-based financiers and facilitators were arrested and brought to face trial.

After an exchange of multiple investigation dossiers with the Indian police authorities, the trial court was requested to give approval to obtain voice samples of the alleged commander and his deputies for comparison with the recorded voices. The court ruled that the consent of the accused should be obtained. Obviously, the suspects refused. Then a plea was submitted before the sessions court to authorise the investigators to take the voice samples despite the lack of consent. The plea was denied on account of there being no such provision in the Evidence Act or the antiterrorism law applicable at that time. The investigators then went in appeal before the High Court. That appeal, I believe, is still pending. The Fair Trial Act, 2013 caters for admissibility of such technical evidence. However, its application with retrospective effect is a moot point.

The Mumbai case is quite unique: one incident with two jurisdictions and two trials. While the Indians managed to nab Ajmal Kasab and were able to obtain his confession to close the trial, proving conspiracy in a different jurisdiction is more complex and requires a far superior quality of evidence. Therefore, the legal experts from both sides need to sit together rather than sulk and point fingers.

Indian interlocutors, engaged during the talks between the then prime ministers of India and Pakistan in Egypt in 2009, had conceded that the Pakistani investigators had done a professional job in the indictment of seven perpetrators of the attack. However, the Pakistani authorities should not forget that the FIA declared various other facilitators and operatives as fugitives in the case. The trial will not be over with the disposal of those under arrest or on bail. Other missing links need to be uncovered after the absconders’ arrest.

This case will not be over soon.

Are we as a nation prepared to muster the courage to face uncomfortable truths and combat the demons of militancy that haunt our land? That is the question!

The writer is former DG, FIA.

Published in Dawn, August 3rd, 2015

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Rsatchi » 30 Nov 2019 14:37

Rony wrote:https://twitter.com/WrongDoc/status/1119206415908782081?s=20

#ConspiracyTheory #Thread

Hemant Karkare was Congress’ handled officer. He actually did actively, on the instructions of his handlers, framed false charges against Sadhvi Pragya and others.

According to the US intelligence, #Samjhauta and #Malegaon blasts were done on the LeT instructions. (See my previous tweet about this).
https://twitter.com/wrongdoc/status/111 ... 47205?s=21
Karkare was, maybe indirectly, being played by LeT with Congress being in at some level.

By the time of of 26/11 attacks, the LeT / Pakistan intelligence/ Congress mechanism figured they must eliminate Karkare because he was a risk for blowing the plot. He was strategically on duty and was killed with three bullets - to be sure to be sure.

Risk point 1- Karkare was interviewed on the day before 26/11 by @RanaAyyub as she herself claimed.
Somebody knew this timing was going to be important. Somebody knew what was coming next day.

Risk point 2- Karkare, being the Chief of ATS, decided to take a couple of cops and get into the action directly instead of strategically manning the control and tactics situation. This is parallel to Dr Kafeel Khan going to drive cylinders instead of managing patients in ward.

Interestingly, The bullets that killed Karkare apparently didn’t match those of the 26/11 terrorists including Kasab’s weapons (look it up). This strengthens the idea that Karkare was eliminated using the ‘fog of war’ cover of the terror attack.

Risk 3- Karkare talked to @digvijaya_28 on the day of 26/11 attack. This is on record. What did they talk about is only for Digvijay to claim (truth or lie) and everyone else to speculate.

Now the final and potentially explosive thing. Karkare’s wife Kavita Karkare died in 2014. I have a strong suspicion this was an assassination, not a natural death from sickness. I’ll tell you why.

First, she’d be likely confidante of Hemant and a risk of disclosures.

The reports said Kavita Karkare suffered ‘brain hemorrhage’ and that this was not suspicious because she was hypertensive. She was 57. She died rather quickly with hemorrhage and the doctor’s claim sounds rather pedestrian. More suspicious activity comes next.

Inducing brain hemorrhage for assassinating someone would not be difficult. CIA and other spy agencies have been in past accused of causing brain hemorrhage for assassination. Lenin’s death by hemorrhage was considered suspicious.

Now the explosive part. Kavita Karkare’s kidneys & eyes were donated. If she had hypertension so bad she’d suffer massive brain hemorrhage that killed her within two days, her kidneys would not be fit for transplant. Her brain hemorrhage wasn’t ‘natural’.

The Karkare couple were the ‘loose ends’. They have been tied off. They likely knew their fate, that’s why they packed away their two daughters to USA. How many honest IPS officers can afford two daughters studying in the US ?

Had Kasab not been caught alive, 26/11 would’ve been clearly blamed as #HinduTerror

1- Kasab and other terrorists had fake Indian IDs and Hindu Temple wristbands

2-With Karkare’s tactically timed interview with @RanaAyyub the day before 26/11 & his phone call with @digvijaya_28
on the day of 26/11, the ground was being prepared to martyr Karkare with ‘he was under threat from #HinduTerror’ plot to be garnished with Kasab’s ‘Hindu thread’.

People kept fooling themselves that the @INCIndia government executed Afzal Guru and Kasab in a haste before 2014 elections to gain some Hindu votes. Nope. They executed them so the imminent Modi government wouldn’t have access to interrogating them.

What is the story with lady!!!
Has she fled from India or worried like Zakir Naik to return
Major Arya had asked about some telephone number on the Teetar
Is there evidence to expose her as a ISI mole???
Majara kya hain???? :roll:

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Rony » 30 Nov 2019 20:53

Rsatchi wrote:
Rony wrote:https://twitter.com/WrongDoc/status/1119206415908782081?s=20


What is the story with lady!!!
Has she fled from India or worried like Zakir Naik to return
Major Arya had asked about some telephone number on the Teetar
Is there evidence to expose her as a ISI mole???
Majara kya hain???? :roll:


There is no "evidence" as far as i know in open source to expose her apart from her articles and opinions. But neither did Fai until uncle decided to expose him. Christine didi once exchanging some barbs with ayub bibi on Paki topic on twitter blurted out at her saying "Your army and your ISI" at which point bibi called out her "bigotry". Subbu swamy's islamic pasand daughter suhasini haider stepped in and told bibi that christine didi tweeted that in mistake and will delete it which she did.

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Rsatchi » 30 Nov 2019 21:51

Rony wrote:
Rsatchi wrote:What is the story with lady!!!
Has she fled from India or worried like Zakir Naik to return
Major Arya had asked about some telephone number on the Teetar
Is there evidence to expose her as a ISI mole???
Majara kya hain???? :roll:


There is no "evidence" as far as i know in open source to expose her apart from her articles and opinions. But neither did Fai until uncle decided to expose him. Christine didi once exchanging some barbs with ayub bibi on Paki topic on twitter blurted out at her saying "Your army and your ISI" at which point bibi called out her "bigotry". Subbu swamy's islamic pasand daughter suhasini haider stepped in and told bibi that christine didi tweeted that in mistake and will delete it which she did.

Totally agree sir,
Apne hi log apnon se dhoka!!!
Somehow all these empancipated/western educated/free wimmen are the most 'Closet Pill-box wearing jihadi pasand' types: Suhasini, Tavleen, Nidhi, Teesta to name a few!! :roll:

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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby SBajwa » 01 Dec 2019 01:20

The first thing to enslave people is to disarm them and make laws against weapons. Sixth Guru Hargobind ji realized this and told people to own, carry and proudly display the arms(banned by Mughals for non muslims) Guru Gobind Singh ji made it part of the khalsa army with kirpan being a must. In 2020 you must have modern weapons like ak 47, etc. Otherwise we will wither


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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby Sanju » 02 Dec 2019 23:47



Moshe was 2 years old then and will be 13 years now, maybe the letter was addressed for his Bar Mitzvah.

He wrote, "As you make this important transition and cross a significant landmark in the journey of your life, the courage of Sandra and prayers of the people of India will continue to bless you for a long, healthy and successful life."

SBajwa
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Re: 26/11/2008: Never Forget. Never Forgive

Postby SBajwa » 03 Dec 2019 05:47

I can only advise to Moshe to become proficient in armament handling and avenge your parents!!!!!!! through all means possible!!!!!


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