Telangana Monitor

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 10 Nov 2011 03:50

You are right that AP hasn't done like WB or Kerala but the objective was more or less achieved. Still there are negligible few in Coastal region who really own large agricultural land. But yes there are several industrialists, enterprenuers and whole sale market owners with lots of wealth.

What is the point in doing like WB and Kerala and what did these states achieve in the larger goal that you are trying to achive by replacing the elite?

Stan_Savljevic
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3522
Joined: 21 Apr 2006 15:40

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Stan_Savljevic » 10 Nov 2011 03:56

Muppalla wrote:replacing the elite?

If you believe in one man/woman == one vote (aka democracy), democratization should be the ultimate objective of any reform esp on the land side. If that is the case, the elite should ideally have no non-commensurate role in any land-driven (aka rural) economy. Much of the whine profile of the people who accede to maoist ideology is driven by such logic. There is a new mining bill on the anvil, with 26% of profits reserved for rural economy the Secretary in the Mining ministry is hoping to cre maoism. It is not going to cre maoism unfortunately.

I know EP&W is probably not a good source for brfites on the self-declared "right", but one really has to read some papers at EP&W to understand the case for more democratization. Here is one:
Land Reforms in Theory and Practice: The Kerala Experience
Author(s): P. Radhakrishnan
Source: Economic and Political Weekly, Vol. 16, No. 52 (Dec. 26, 1981)

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 10 Nov 2011 03:57

when we say "elite" we are specifically referring to "feudal" mentality. if you want to know what's wrong with AP, here's an example. one man could command the loyalty of many significant sections by giving them his lands. YSR's total land assets were in the range of 100's of thousands of acres. during YSR-1 he donated this land. people were falling over their feet about this. real question was how did one family get to dominate such an enormous amount of wealth? Lagadapati and Botsa also follow the same model on a smaller scale. you'd be really hard pressed to find any equivalent cases for T.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 10 Nov 2011 07:17

devesh wrote:when we say "elite" we are specifically referring to "feudal" mentality. if you want to know what's wrong with AP, here's an example. one man could command the loyalty of many significant sections by giving them his lands. YSR's total land assets were in the range of 100's of thousands of acres. during YSR-1 he donated this land. people were falling over their feet about this. real question was how did one family get to dominate such an enormous amount of wealth? Lagadapati and Botsa also follow the same model on a smaller scale. you'd be really hard pressed to find any equivalent cases for T.


devesh garu,

We should not confuse with feudal Vs "purely wealthy folks" Vs mafia.

Feudalism (a.k.a jamindari system) is simply non-existant in coastal AP since the times of independence. Though it was not a great land reforms like in WB or Kerala (I personally do not think that model is a progressive step), there were enough things that happened to be away from people holding large scale lands.

The second category of "becoming wealthy" is okay as it is synonymous with the India's wealth growth.

The third category is pure goonda gardhi with land grabbing and holding on to it with no records of ownership. In addition, due to pandering from the highest political parties, these guys created a huge mafia of land grabbers and then gave the rights to hold the grabbed land or even transferred the ownership using mafia tactics. This is pure and simple mafia. This mafia has no boundaries. YSR or Jagan is the kingpin and it extends to all districts of AP. In Telangana they have Telangana folks. Without party or regoinal stuff, we have examples such as Paritala Ravi, PJR, Konda Surekha and several more worthies in this category.

YSR has extended this mafia with a structure so that it is a win-win from the small guy to big guy and the fees for a service flows from bottom to top. The clamor for Jagan after YSR with more than 140 mlas supporting Jagan is just for this reason. It is an engine that will collapse and no one wanted this to happen (no Andhra, Telangana stuff)

Regarding Lagadapati, I believe he belongs to second category but to be in second category you need to be a India style businessman which means you should have clout, cut corners and outsmart. Ambanis, Tatas or any Indian businessmen did the same to become what they are and the flaw is not in AP and it is in India. We still do not have a decent system where without clout or cutting corner one cannot easily grow a business.

Coming back to land reforms topic:
Even if we reform and distribute land in 1947 with say 5 acres each, and if smart guy makes more money with his 5 acres and which law can stop him from buying more land? Should the government restrict the smart one from land purchases at every stage? How would that help in growth?

In terms of number of acres of land measurment, it is actually the Telangana Reddys who has more land holdings (in 100s of acres) than anyone in coastal areas. I do not know much about Rayalaseema.

Regarding replacing elite:
Taking 1947 as a baseline - yes there is a complete shift of elite in coastal areas. Kammas in 1947 were not land owners and if we go by India trends they should be some powerful BC group like Kurmis in UP or Bihar. In terms of wealth (land, houses, cash, gold, cattle) kammas may be less wealthier than Brahmins, vyshyas or even less than some of powerful BC castes like Nagaras of Vijayawada. Definitely no where near Reddys (Guntur, Prakasam, Nellore) or Kapus in Godavari districts. Today they are probably the most wealthiest ones and probably the most happening community of India's wealth story.

The power shift of AP did happen as Kammas also reached political peaks with TDP ruling AP for more than 20 years. In terms of politics, kammas were challengers and it was always Reddys, Brahmins and Velamas until 80s. Then came Kammas with a large sections of OBC support as power shift.

Yes I agree there is a problem with both power dynamics and wealth distribution but we may have to define it better or refine what you have written above.

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby RamaY » 10 Nov 2011 07:27

Devesh garu,

You should come visit East Godavari to see what a single politician can do. GMC Balayogi (ex speaker, TDP leader) did so much in his constituency that you will be surprised that it could be done.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9558
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 10 Nov 2011 07:47

Some case with Nallapa Reddy Srinivasulu Reddy in Kovoor ( a town just after Pennar Rever in Nellore District. They say that he did lot of village level development even now his son ( now with Jagan because of his disputes with CBN) is the MLA. In Nellore town Ramesh Reddy who is from a lower middle class family has lot of support because of the work done by him during his tenure as Municipal Chaiman. He could defeat all the money power of congress and even become a minister in NTR time. CBN simply sidelined him in the party later.

I am sure that there are several politicos every where who have done some good things on the basis they and their families enjoy public support.

VenkataS
BRFite
Posts: 255
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 03:38

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby VenkataS » 10 Nov 2011 08:50

devesh wrote:Muppalla ji,
nope, AP hasn't undergone any land reforms. definitely not in the sense that other states like WB have undergone. the so called "program" in the 50's was low key and mostly PR. it never had the overarching objectives that are needed to transition from feudal society to industrial.

and please do research PVNR's term in the early 70's. it was primarily the land owning elite of coastal districts, which was against his land reforms, that made sure that he couldn't finish his term. to hasten his exit, the "Jai Andhra" movement was created.


Devesh,
Why are you so particular about land reforms in 2011. We have had 64 years of independent rule from the british and you want to talk about land reforms now. That train has already left the station. Do you intend to grab land from people who have worked hard and increased their acreage. Do we really need socialism of this kind now.

Farming in India is a huge unproductive effort with yields less than half of even what the Chinese are managing. How will land reforms with the subsequent result of diminished land holdings help us in increasing our foodgrain output.

60% of our population is engaged in agriculture which is worth 16% of our GDP, which implies that the PCI of people involved in agriculture is 1/9th that of the rest of population (these are crude statistics by the way). Most of our farmers are people with minimal land holdings, are dependent on the vagaries of the monsoon and are surviving on subsistence living.

The need of the hour for us is to move people away from agriculture and into productive and sustainable employment in the services or manufacturing sectors. For that to happen we need to educate them and provide them with the right skills to survive in the 21st century (not just give them land and expect them to thrive). This will require a marathon effort and a vision of where we want to be in the future. I do not believe the answer is in a sector (agriculture) which will increasingly be a smaller fraction of the Indian economy. Ideally the percentage of people involved in agriculture should be similar to the agricultural portion of our GDP (in almost every advanced economy this is the case).

Our (APs) literacy rate in 2011 is 67% with less than 60% of female population literate now. Can you believe that? We are amongst the worst performing states (31 out of 35) in India on this front. Our literacy rate is even lower than that of UP and Bihar is rapidly closing the gap with us as well. This is not just a Telangana problem (every region of our state is performing poorly in this aspect). Here are the actual figures (I am sorry about this becoming a long post):

1 Kerala 93.91
2 Lakshadweep # 92.28
3 Mizoram 91.58
4 Tripura 87.75
5 Goa 87.40
6 Daman & Diu # 87.07
7 Puducherry # 86.55
8 Chandigarh # 86.43
9 NCT of Delhi # 86.34
10 Andaman & Nicobar Islands # 86.27
11 Himachal Pradesh 83.78
12 Maharashtra 82.91
13 Sikkim 82.20
14 Tamil Nadu 80.33
15 Nagaland 80.11
16 Manipur 79.85
17 Uttarakhand 79.63
18 Gujarat 79.31
19 Dadra & Nagar Haveli # 77.65
20 West Bengal 77.08
21 Punjab 76.68
22 Haryana 76.64
23 Karnataka 75.60
24 Meghalaya 75.48
25 Orissa 73.45
26 Assam 73.18
27 Chhattisgarh 71.04
28 Madhya Pradesh 70.63
29 Uttar Pradesh 69.72
30 Jammu & Kashmir 68.74
31 Andhra Pradesh 67.66
32 Jharkhand 67.63
33 Rajasthan 67.06
34 Arunachal Pradesh 66.95
35 Bihar 63.82

This should be the one area where we should concentrate our efforts. Free and fair access to quality education for everyone. Ensuing that all of our children have access to and complete atleast 12 years of schooling with an opportunity to enroll in either techical schools (ITIs) or universities afterwards. We should have adult education programs coupled with skills coaching for illiterate adults or anyone who wishes to improve their livelyhood.

I believe that this is a sustainable way of promoting stellar individuals from every community in the state.

Let us educate everyone (not just in Telangana but in Rayalaseema and Coastal AP as well) and provide them with the right skills to succeed in this economy.

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 10 Nov 2011 09:15

when we put so much trust in the elite based on some rare examples like GMC Balayogi, then we are doomed. for every GMC Balayogi there are 10 others like Botsa, YSR, YSJ, and many many others. and I am really surprised at the opposition against land reforms. the issue is very complicated. one of the issues that will inevitably come up is selling small acreage of fertile land and buying up huge amounts of non-fertile land. there are many other issues too. like how many ryots does a farmer employ? indeed, I would say this is an issue of great importance. political power and ability to manipulate political and socio-economic choices by a small group come from this factor.

and as for shifting employment from Agri to industries. the trend in industries is clearly more and more roboticization. already, even the mega factories and industries don't employ as many people as they used to even in the 90's. this trend will only accelerate. believe me, the idea of industries creating employment for a majority of the farming population is a myth. it's not going to happen. the mirage of shifting agri to industry employment has been going on for a long time now, but it is not going to happen. there are some 60+ crore people involved directly in farming in India. only a small, minute fraction of this population will find employment in industries in the future. the rest will continue to be involved in agriculture. we can't get over this reality.

as an example, I recently met a manager level guy from Singareni Coal who visited US. in the discussion he said that the coal output has gone up significantly compared tot he 90's, but the people employed in Singareni is now HALF of what it was in the 90's. this trend will accelerate. the mirage of massive industry employment is just that: a mirage. robotics will prove humans useless in manufacturing and hard industry.

so the question boils down to the same thing: what do we do with the huge agri population. I think we can all agree that the status-quo of having a massive poor population is not the solution. this is Pakistan's way. India can't follow that model. either way, the agri population needs to have more "control" of their life. basically, give them a social contract to fulfill and let them be a greater part of India's story. otherwise, we'll go Pakistan way...

milindc
BRFite
Posts: 672
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 00:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby milindc » 10 Nov 2011 09:25

devesh wrote:and as for shifting employment from Agri to industries. the trend in industries is clearly more and more roboticization. already, even the mega factories and industries don't employ as many people as they used to even in the 90's. this trend will only accelerate. believe me, the idea of industries creating employment for a majority of the farming population is a myth. it's not going to happen. the mirage of shifting agri to industry employment has been going on for a long time now, but it is not going to happen. there are some 60+ crore people involved directly in farming in India. only a small, minute fraction of this population will find employment in industries in the future. the rest will continue to be involved in agriculture. we can't get over this reality.

as an example, I recently met a manager level guy from Singareni Coal who visited US. in the discussion he said that the coal output has gone up significantly compared tot he 90's, but the people employed in Singareni is now HALF of what it was in the 90's. this trend will accelerate. the mirage of massive industry employment is just that: a mirage. robotics will prove humans useless in manufacturing and hard industry.

so the question boils down to the same thing: what do we do with the huge agri population. I think we can all agree that the status-quo of having a massive poor population is not the solution. this is Pakistan's way. India can't follow that model. either way, the agri population needs to have more "control" of their life. basically, give them a social contract to fulfill and let them be a greater part of India's story. otherwise, we'll go Pakistan way...


And the roboticization of agriculture is also a global phenomenon and already sweeping India as well.
Even in these stupid 'social contract' schemes like MNREGA , the labour is just used for TV coverage. Actual work is done by JCB, and a cut sent to people supposedly employed.

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 10 Nov 2011 09:28

yup....same with agri. but ownership of land can't be roboticized. :) it is still owned by someone.

VenkataS
BRFite
Posts: 255
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 03:38

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby VenkataS » 10 Nov 2011 09:31

I did not just say industrial sector, a majority of our population should be employed in both the industrial and services sectors.

~60% of our GDP is in the services sector and ~24% of our GDP is in the industrial sector. Whereas they both together only employ ~40% of our population.
If a majority of our population is in agriculture which only generates a small fraction of our GDP (which is decreasing by the day), then how is that a good thing.

Agriculture is not the place where the majority of our population should be in unless you want them to remain poor.
The majority of our population should be in the services and industrial sectors.

As a side note less than 1% of US population is engaged in agriculture, that means 99% of their population is employed in services and industrial sectors.
If they can do it, why can't we?

BTW we cannot get from 60% to 1% in agriculture in the next 10 years or may be even in the next 50 years. This cannot be done overnight but we need to have a vision and work towards it.

Also I do not remember seeing any politician lament over the fact that only 67% of our population is literate (with less than 60% of our female population literate), have you?
Last edited by VenkataS on 10 Nov 2011 09:45, edited 3 times in total.

milindc
BRFite
Posts: 672
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 00:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby milindc » 10 Nov 2011 09:39

devesh wrote:yup....same with agri. but ownership of land can't be roboticized. :) it is still owned by someone.


Yes, the ownership is splintered completely on Deccan Plateau. If you have more 10 acres, the price of land automatically doubles. The only big tracks are the ones bought by neo-rich (either politicians or industrialists). And I don't think one can stop that using land reforms.

If you want people to own <2 acres and think it will be productive, it is plain impossible unless the prices are quadrupled.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ramana » 10 Nov 2011 10:21

Triveni Magazine, July 1953 before Andhra was formed

Andhra State:Problems and Potentialities

It was with great hope that the Andhra State was created in 1953. Its not what is being portrayed by KCR type goons.

The Andhra State: Problems and Potentialities



By D. V. RAMA RAO, M.A., LL.B.



While the Andhras look forward with eager expectation to the ushering in of the Andhra State early in October, they are also aware of the various immediate problems the new State would be confronted with. Indeed, even before the formation of the State, the location of the temporary capital presented almost insurmountable difficulties. Contrary to their expectations, Madras was not available as the temporary capital and no town in Andhra was sufficiently developed for the purpose. Many a problem, including that of the capital, would have proved less knotty if a full-fledged Andhra State including the Telangana portion of Hyderabad had been decided upon; but that was not to be, and there was no option, therefore, except to find an improvised temporary capital in a hurry.



Although the coastal area towns, especially Visakhapatnam and Vijayawada, are more developed and better suited for locating the capital than any in Rayalaseema, and although Justice Wanchoo recommended Visakhapatnam as the next best to Madras in view of the availability of buildings and the consequent saving on capital expenditure besides its other conveniences, yet, the moral obligations under the Sri Bang Pact were scrupulously respected by the coastal Andhras generally, in choosing Kurnool in Rayalaseema as the temporary capital. Whatever might be the justification for a section of the Press and the public of coastal Andhra to be dissatisfied with the decision, it cannot be denied that this decision has done more than anything else to remove regional suspicions and to foster friendly and harmonious relations between the Circars and Rayalaseema Andhras. Therefore, unless Rayalaseema is amenable to a review of the decision, it would be hardly wise to carry on the controversy further, and all those that strove hard to bring about unity and goodwill among the Andhras on the eve of the ushering in of the new State deserve to be congratulated.



This is, however, the first hurdle, and many more would have to be successfully negotiated before the new state is firmly established. For instance, selecting the capital does not solve the problem of finding immediate accommodation, which would have to be met both by rapidly erecting new buildings in Kurnool and by a suitable and convenient distribution of some of the departments and offices in places like Guntur, Vijayawada, Dhowleswararn and Visakhapatnam, not to speak of continuing or locating a few, like Central Government Offices, in Madras and Hyderabad. This is, no doubt, a disadvantage. But unless adequate Central aid is forthcoming, this has to be put up with, and we have to make the best of the available resources.



The next–and the most important–question that rises in one’s mind is whether the Andhra legislators would be able to form a stable government. As it is, the strength of the Congress and Communist members from Andhra is almost equal, but the reported understanding reached among the Congress Praja Socialist and Krishikar Lok Party leaders, added to the support of several Independents would, it is almost certain, enable the formation of a government commanding a comfortable majority as well as popular confidence.



The Andhra legislature would certainly not suffer from any dearth of experience or talent; it would have the services of well-tried and experienced public figures like Prakasam, Sanjiva Reddi, Koti Reddi and T. Viswanatham, besides the Krishikar Lok Party leaders, Independents like Vavilala Gopalakrishnayya, and the polished Secretary of the Praja Socialist Party–the Raja of Vizianagaram. The ever active, although cynically propagandistic,

Communist Opposition will be led by the talented T. Nagi Reddi. Since many eyes would be watching the new State, as a test case of linguistic division, the Andhras are Sure to act in a healthy spirit of accepting the challenge, if only to demonstrate to the doubting Thomases that they are no worse, if not better, than their, compatriots of other states in the business of shaping and running the new administration in a successful manner. The problem of political stability, therefore, may not prove as acute as once feared.



That brings us to the next problem of financial soundness and viability. But ‘financial viability’ is an intriguing term, since the mere balancing of a budget is no longer considered the sole test of financial stability. Indeed, even deficit financing with a definite purpose on a well calculated basis of bringing about increased prosperity is viewed by many as a sound financial proposition. Further, since almost every State is depending on increasing Central grants, the infant Andhra State too would have to depend, naturally on adequate Central aid for at least some time to come. The measure of stability and success, in the ultimate analysis, depends on sound fiscal and financial policies calculated to develop and harness the potential resources of the State to the best possible advantage rather than in the mere producing of surplus budgets. The deficit, if any, for a short time, may not be more than a crore, because the varying deficit estimates, ranging from a crore to three or four crores in a budget of over twenty crores, are largely calculated on the basis of figures for the districts without a precise allocation of the respective Andhra and Residuary Madras shares in the revenues under the head of Madras City and also certain Central allocations. So, as some suggest, financial considerations may not compel the giving up of Prohibition; but on other realistic grounds the Prohibition policy may have to be suitably modified without giving it up altogether. The initial division of assets and liabilities is likely to be the knottiest problem which may have to be referred to an expert and impartial high-power tribunal on the lines suggested by T. Viswanatham.



Provided the new State is able to devise a sound regional development programme, calculated to pay itself, and raise the requisite funds both by public loan and Central aid, it need not be a worrying problem if it were to have deficit budgets for a few years. Thus, if the two major Godavari Valley and Krishna Valley multi-purpose projects, i.e., Ramapada Sagar and Nandikonda, along with the complementary projects like Sidheswaram and Gandikota, could be started on a well-planned basis and executed efficiently, the prosperity and potentialities of the State would enormously increase. The Andhra area including Telangana would then comprise the largest block of the most fertile tract in the whole of South India, if not the country, untroubled by the food problem; besides, the hydro-electric power that could be generated thereby would help start many a suitable industry. The Andhra State, it is to be hoped, would be guided by a due sense of priorities, especially with regard to development plans, sop as to husband its resources to the best all-round advantage in the shortest possible period, without wasting energies on needless controversies and in pursuing doctrinaire reforms based on sentimental fads and slogans; and, let it be hoped, too, that the vitality and fervour of the Andhras would be used to better purpose than in mere exuberance of misguided socio-political activity.



The next and last major problem is the one relating to administrative personnel and efficiency. That of administrative efficiency and integrity being a general problem in the country, it need not be dealt with here. There would be, however, a dearth of Andhra personnel especially in higher cadres, but if the services of suitable personnel–whether Andhra or non-Andhra-could be got, it ceases to be exactly a problem, since most of the higher cadres are recruited on an all-India basis and, therefore, it would both wrong and narrow-minded for any State to expect to have all posts manned exclusively by persons belonging to a particular tract or language group. It. should be borne in mind that the principle of linguistic States is based on that of administrative convenience and redistribution of units on a rational basis in consonance with the general aspirations of the concerned people, and not on the recognition of language groups as different races or nationalities. No doubt, it would be legitimate for any language group or State, to aspire to achieve a due share in higher cadres in all spheres but it should be the outcome of merit. So, instead of bemoaning the alleged denial of opportunities to the Andhras for attaining higher administrative posts in the past in the composite Madras State, the Andhras would do well to attain by sustained efforts the requisite standards and accomplishments necessary to compete successfully in the selection of such posts.



Andhra ambition, it appears, more often finds expression in exciting but unthrifty political-cum-public activity than in calculated pursuit of lucrative and comfortable private careers: which trait partly explains the dearth of Andhra personnel not only in higher government services but even in the upper rank careers in business or the professions generally. Possibly, that is also partly responsible for the industrial backwardness of Andhradesh, for without a sufficiently large well-to-do upper middle class which largely contributes to business investments, modern industrial and commercial expansion is hardly possible, at any rate, in a democracy recognising the due place of private enterprise. Has not someone remarked that every Andhra at heart is a poet or politician? That is, perhaps, a nice way of saying that the Andhra is either impractical daydreamer or one who is apt to lose himself in profitless, though not purposeless, political excitement! Is it not the case that where a compatriot in neighbouring areas aspires to become a District Magistrate, the Andhra invariably aspires to become the President of the District Board? And that, where that compatriot aspires to retire as a Departmental Secretary on a comfortable pension, the Andhra aspires to become a political leader, if not a minister, burning all his boats long before the time retirement? To their excellent and active political inclinations let the Andhras learn to add a little cool calculation, thrift and smartness required to ensure success in varied careers, besides a due regard for civic amenities and sense of local pride, so as to ensure success in all spheres and develop their towns and villages into neat and attractive places with all requisite amenities.



To foster requisite standards of intelligence, ability and smart personality, it may be necessary for the Andhra Government to either start, or help start, by such bodies as the Ramakrishna and the Christian Missions some standard residential public schools and colleges which are at present sadly lacking in Andhradesh, The alleged high-brow snobbery associated with some of such institutions should, no doubt, be avoided, but it has to be admitted that it is usually students of well-run, although fastidious, institutions such as, for instance, the public schools in Dehra Dun and school and colleges run by the (Ramakrishna or Christian) Missions in Madras and elsewhere that acquire the requisite standards in accomplishment, smartness and methodic habits that ensure success in higher competitive examinations, whether for civil or military posts, or professional or business careers. If necessary, suitable institutions may also be started to offer refresher courses to train and streamline the aspiring young men and young women for successful careers in the higher rungs.



Both in the matter of development programme and that of starting suitable standard institutions, the services of such as S. V. Ramamurty and V. Ramakrishna, besides the guidance of such as M. Viswesvaraya and G. D. Naidu, is possible, should be welcomed. The generous public donation and response which enabled the recent opening of the Satyavati Devi St. Theresa’s Women’s College at Eluru and the reported move of the Vijayawada public to raise the requisite resources for a residential college to be started by the Loyola Mission on a hundred-acre plot, are encouraging signs that the Andhra public is keenly alive to the need in this direction. It should be noted, however, that while the aspiration to achieve a due share in higher posts and careers in all spheres is desirable, if only to remove any inferiority complex, disproportionate glamour for them should be checked; for the more enlightened and advanced a people, the less ought to be the significance of, and consequent glamour for, so called prize jobs and careers. Far more important is the problem of finding productive and gainful occupation for the large number of unemployed and under-employed by a well-coordinated development programme of promotion of industries, of revitalisation of cottage crafts like handlooms, and extension of utility services.



Fortunately, the Andhra State would have practically no communal problems. However, with regard to language and educational policies; not only should the linguistic minorities, especially of bordering bi-lingual areas, be assured of all legitimate facilities, but all citizens irrespective of language or community should enjoy equal opportunities without any discrimination, such as evidenced by the mistaken policies pursued in States like Bihar and Orissa. Further, the new State should be wary and not introduce in haste the Telugu medium for all governmental purposes or at the University stage, which would be a distinct disadvantage at present and would only result in inefficiency and isolation from others. Love of one’s language and solicitude for cultural values had better be expressed in terms of better emoluments to teachers, including Telugu and Sanskrit Pandits, authors, scholars, etc., and not in mere sentimental and unrealistic fads and empty glorification such as the presentation of ‘Pancharatnams’ (five gems in verse), a long shawl, a longer title, and a purse of Rs. 116 as the only reward of the life-work of a scholar, author or publicist! Surely, the presentation of a purse of less than ten thousand Rupees on any such occasion should come to be viewed as disgraceful. Andhradesh is not lacking in talented and illustrious authors, journalists and publicists, but excepting some individual cases that have thriven largely outside Andhradesh, hardly any have received proper response or recognition, let alone reward, from Andhradesh. One wonders if there is a single author or publicist in Andhradesh who is able to earn even one hundred Rupees a month by his writings! If conditions could be produced where, say, a hundred authors, a hundred journalists, a hundred scholars and publicists, and a hundred musicians and artists–barring cinema stars–could each earn at least five hundred Rupees a month, which is not a large sum, by his professional services, and if the pay of teachers and lecturers could be handsomely enhanced, then alone the Andhras can pat themselves for having done something concrete and substantial towards recognition of cultural values. No doubt, this requires the co-ordinated efforts of a sympathetic government, a responsive and appreciative public, and enterprising and discerning publishers. It is the practical services of persons like the late K. Nageswara Rao Pantulu through the ‘Andhra Patrika’ and allied journals, and publishing houses like Vavilla Ramaswami Sastrulu and Sons of Madras, that have done more for the promotion of Telugu language and literature than all the mere sentimental claptrap, too often indulged in by Andhras, could achieve.



If the Andhra University can help produce in Telugu a couple of hundreds of standard and well-got-up books on literature, science, history, philosophy, etc., more enduring and distinct service could be rendered thereby for the promotion of Telugu language and literature than by the hasty introduction of Telugu medium at higher stages of education or at government level. In this connection, the services of such as M. Venkatarangaiya, V. Appa Rao, and the Editor of ‘Triveni’, to mention but a few, may be utilised with advantage.



If the Andhras, who do not lack in energy, vitality, civilised instincts or good intentions, will only pay a little attention to the above aspects, besides that of improving public sanitation, health and diet, and attend to first things first in a business like manner, there is no reason why in a decade or two Andhradesh should not be transformed into a smiling and prosperous land with a healthy, enterprising and accomplished populace.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9558
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 10 Nov 2011 12:14

Present position of agri in India and the bad state of farmers is not because governament has not done things like land redistribution etc. When Ambani can have 1 Lac crores and own most of the oil production in the nation how we can present some one from holding say 100 Acres? From 1951 the leftist ideas like land distribution are simply killing the economy. What we need is freedom to farmers to produce what they want and sell it where and when they want. Export if they want. As long as agri is not profitable there will not be improvement in farmers life. But we are all interested in keeping farmers as beggers. If Godavari district farmers are not ready to cultivate land then there is something seriously wrong. AP has sought permission to export 1 Crore ton grain this year because of unpresident crop and lack of space to store them. It has taken 4 months for Delhi to respond and 10 Lac tons were permitted. I wish to know why permission is needed in the first place? . If you allow same freedom to farmer to export just like software fellows he can also do something about his produce instead of weeping when FCI do not purchase it and middlemen want to purchase it at dirt cheap price.

There are lot of people here who say small states are needed for better adminitration. There are wrong. It is the small amounts of Babus and more freedom for people who produce wealth that are needed for progress in India. For entire known historical periods barring British we were the richest people in the world. There is reason we can not become one again. What we need is ideal of Milton Freedman and not of Karl Marks and Stalin. Certainly not ideas of stupids like Nehru.

milindc
BRFite
Posts: 672
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 00:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby milindc » 10 Nov 2011 21:48

Narayana Rao wrote:Present position of agri in India and the bad state of farmers is not because governament has not done things like land redistribution etc. When Ambani can have 1 Lac crores and own most of the oil production in the nation how we can present some one from holding say 100 Acres? From 1951 the leftist ideas like land distribution are simply killing the economy. What we need is freedom to farmers to produce what they want and sell it where and when they want. Export if they want. As long as agri is not profitable there will not be improvement in farmers life. But we are all interested in keeping farmers as beggers. If Godavari district farmers are not ready to cultivate land then there is something seriously wrong. AP has sought permission to export 1 Crore ton grain this year because of unpresident crop and lack of space to store them. It has taken 4 months for Delhi to respond and 10 Lac tons were permitted. I wish to know why permission is needed in the first place? . If you allow same freedom to farmer to export just like software fellows he can also do something about his produce instead of weeping when FCI do not purchase it and middlemen want to purchase it at dirt cheap price.

There are lot of people here who say small states are needed for better adminitration. There are wrong. It is the small amounts of Babus and more freedom for people who produce wealth that are needed for progress in India. For entire known historical periods barring British we were the richest people in the world. There is reason we can not become one again. What we need is ideal of Milton Freedman and not of Karl Marks and Stalin. Certainly not ideas of stupids like Nehru.


The other side of the coin is that Farmers shouldn't expect subsidies on fertilizer, electricity and no Minimum Support Price

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby RamaY » 10 Nov 2011 21:52

milindc wrote:The other side of the coin is that Farmers shouldn't expect subsidies on fertilizer, electricity and no Minimum Support Price


It is not that simple. The farmers need lot of support w.r.t financing, farm insurance and direct access to the market to break these shackles of dependency on subsidies and middlemen.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9558
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 11 Nov 2011 07:29

Sure. If there is freedom for the farmers then they have to expect nothing from State. But internationally (including in counteries like US) there are some support structures to farmers and if we expect them to internationally compitative we have to provide that level of support. By the way minimum support price is not a help. In case if allowed to sell freely they will get better price. In fact minimum support price not being given to farmers in AP. In fact there is no proper purchase system in AP leading to serious issues this year. Farmers had to sell the paddy even 30% less than the minimu support price as there is no purchase. Further Union Governament has increased Wheat support price but there is no increase for the for rice/paddy.

It appers chapter 8 is under fulll implimentation. CRPF forces from Non Telangana areas are being shifted to Telangana. Governament advertisments to TV channels increased like anything. Earlier there were none. Political parties like TDP are also taking out advertisment on NTR Trust with CBN and even Balakrishna.

One more significant development is the CBN Rait Poru Yatra in Telangana wherein he started walking from village to village and meeting farmers. So TDP is slowly back in Telangana. There was lot of support to TDP in Telangana and TRS said that it will not oppose his Yatra. Second SRC seems to be the ' In idea" for Congress. It seems there will be Autonomous Counsil immediately and matter may be part SRC reference.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 11 Nov 2011 18:56

Folks, read it all. This is the reason for new drama called as 2nd SRC.

Chief Minister Mayawati has proposed division of Uttar Pradesh into four smaller states

Chief Minister Mayawati has proposed division of Uttar Pradesh into four smaller states. She is expected to table a motion on this in the winter session of the assembly which starts on November 21.

This is being seen as her masterstroke to quell the anti-incumbency against her government, as the state gears up for polls. The move is aimed at turning the focus on the Congress-led central government, while deflecting criticism of her government's performance by Congress general secretary Rahul Gandhi.

Congress would come under intense pressure if the UP assembly passes a motion for the division of the state, as the onus would then be with the UPA government, already in a bind over the demand for creation of Telangana state.

BSP aims to corner SP too, which has been constantly opposing UP's division, Mayawati is aware that the Centre would have a hard time either accepting or rejecting the motion passed by the assembly. Even if the central government accepts, most of the credit would go to Mayawati, as she has been demanding division of UP into four smaller states for the last five years and has written several letters to the prime minister on this.

Also the process for creation of new states is long-drawn and any delay would result in the UPA government being portrayed as the spoiler of the show, rather than Mayawati.

On the other hand, if the UPA government rejects the proposal, Mayawati aims to garner the goodwill of the people as the only chief minister who is committed to the cause. UP is being proposed to be divided into four smaller states.

Harit Pradesh comprising 22 districts in west-UP, Bundelkhand with 7 districts in the most-backward region of the state, Poorvanchal comprising 32 districts in the eastern part and central UP, with the remaining 14 districts.

Congress is on the verge of sealing a pre-poll pact with Ajit Singh's RLD who has some influence in western UP, and has been an ardent campaigner for Harit Pradesh's creation.

Mayawati seeks to blunt any advantages Congress will have from the alliance with RLD by turning the new champion of Harit Pradesh. Congress' senior leader Digvijaya Singh reacted by calling for the setting up a State Reorganisation Commission to look into the demand.


There are two parties (INC and BJP) who have to take a stand or their double standards will be exposed and no doubt will be exploited by AP parties who are either directly or indirecly against split.

Here will be a case where the Assembly will pass a resolution to split their own state and the parties may not ready to split the state. In case of AP there is no way they can get the resolution passed but they are bold enough to make statements about Telangana.

In case of UP - INC is hell bent on not dividing the state and BJP is double minded. If BJP gets its act together then it may accept Mayawati's formula. Electorally it is beneficial to BJP.

In Case of AP - Both INC and BJP will lose further in their voices if they keep supporting Telangana and not allow UP division. It will be far worse for BJP if they do not accept the small states of UP while shouting on the roof tops about the greatness of smaller states.

In short, Telangana formation is determined by what they will do with respect to UP. I advise, TRS, T-INC, T-TDP to lobby for UP division.

If you divide UP then India will have some 50 to 60 states as you will not be able to stop the demands anymore. Hence Congress is now back to old trick of everything will be solved via 2nd SRC.

For United AP proponets - Jai Ho Maya
For T-Seperatists - Jai Ho Maya and pray for UP division :)

Bottomline - No UP division then no T formation.

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby RamaY » 11 Nov 2011 20:44

^^^

That was a touching article Ramanaji. Shows the logic behind why certain sectors got more importance in the first 30 years of state formation.

:) Also analyzes Telugu psyche. Unfortunately the psyche is still same; more focus on politics and middleman-business than focus on industry as a strategy toward nation building.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 11 Nov 2011 22:13

BJP is opposed to division of UP state but supports Telangana
New States should not be formed casually: Advani

In the backdrop Chief Minister Mayawati’s reported plans to divide UP, BJP leader L. K. Advani on Friday said that new states should not be formed “casually” and more consultations were needed on the issue.

“On the division of Uttar Pradesh, I would say any decision should only be taken after consultations. Offhand nothing can be stated,” he said, adding that it has already been divided into two parts as the demand for a separate Uttarakhand had been pending for a long time.

Replying to questions, Mr. Advani said, “States cannot be formed casually. We also formed three states. But the demand for those states had continued for a long time and after proper consultations and consideration, we worked towards the formation of those states (Chhatisgarh, Uttarakhand and Jharkhand).”

On the issue of formation of a separate Telangana, he said that this “demand has been there for 25—30 years, but in the past two years, it has been handled in such a way by the UPA government that many people have committed suicide. And in the past 35-40 days all work has come to a halt.”

The BJP leader said that his party would raise the issue of black money in the Winter Session of Parliament and ask the government to reveal the steps taken to bring it back.

“Till now the information available raises concern that whatever steps the government has taken, have been taken to protect some people,” he claimed.

Mr. Advani also suggested that simultaneous elections should be held for Lok Sabha and state assemblies as frequent polls hampered good governance.



Even Rajnath Singh opposed. Their opposition to division of UP is a creation of Pakistan inside India via Harit Pradesh.

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3097
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby fanne » 11 Nov 2011 22:13

To be clear, UP division and AP division are two seperate issues, not to be intermixed. I have no opinion or horse in AP division.
UP division should not happen. Western UP will be mini TSP within our border. Or like Hydrabad with 25-35 Loksabha Seats and where 20 years down the line the assembly well be passing a resolution for a seperate ROP state. You think JK is a problem, this will be a bigger one.
The Nationalistic forces are apposing it. BJP has come out against it. Let's be under no illusion.

To all my brothers who are requesting a seperate Telengana (and also all my brothers for united AP), Telengana divison has nothing to do with wether UP gets divided or not (or TN, Karnataka, Bengal, Punjab, Rajasthan, Mahrastra...for that matter). Let's not mix the two issues. Fight for seperate T or united AP, please do not bring UP in it.
Thanks,
Fanne

RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby RamaY » 11 Nov 2011 22:20

Muppalla wrote:Even Rajnath Singh opposed. Their opposition to division of UP is a creation of Pakistan inside India via Harit Pradesh.


This is exactly what I said here today viewtopic.php?p=1193485#p1193485

The contemporary Indian politics are using these national structures (religious-cultural linkages) more and more in achieving their political advancements. In my opinion, this is one of the key catalysts behind the recent demands for smaller-states besides many other administrative causes. Smaller states, IMO, will end up being religious enclaves in the near future.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 11 Nov 2011 22:23

Let me also make it clear, I am totally opposed to UP division as I was with AP. Honestly I am more opposed to UP division and I can swallow AP division though I don't like it :)

ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2399
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ShyamSP » 11 Nov 2011 23:15

fanne wrote:To be clear, UP division and AP division are two seperate issues, not to be intermixed. I have no opinion or horse in AP division.
UP division should not happen. Western UP will be mini TSP within our border. Or like Hydrabad with 25-35 Loksabha Seats and where 20 years down the line the assembly well be passing a resolution for a seperate ROP state. You think JK is a problem, this will be a bigger one.
The Nationalistic forces are apposing it. BJP has come out against it. Let's be under no illusion.

To all my brothers who are requesting a seperate Telengana (and also all my brothers for united AP), Telengana divison has nothing to do with wether UP gets divided or not (or TN, Karnataka, Bengal, Punjab, Rajasthan, Mahrastra...for that matter). Let's not mix the two issues. Fight for seperate T or united AP, please do not bring UP in it.
Thanks,
Fanne


Only difference is AP comes under language-based state formation policy. UP can be divided with out constitutional litigation and without affecting first SRC where as AP can't.

As far as the division, they are all the same. Vested political interests want to control sub regions so they control power and engage in corruption to rob revenues and money allotments for those sub regions. BJP is opposing because one region becomes Islamic Adda. MIM is opposing because one region becomes communal Adda.

In principle, BJP needs to take same stand. Either they oppose both or support both. Their double standards are exposed and humorous by trying to weasel out saying two state divisions are different.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 11 Nov 2011 23:29

The day they divide UP (I hope not), India will surely have 50 to 60 states. It will be just too much as any country will only be stable with proper core and pherephery management. This is a red line from that aspect. Mayawati is throwing a spanner in all divisions. In a way what she is doing may stop the nonsense. Bihar division was first stupid step anyway.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 11 Nov 2011 23:31

ShyamSP wrote:Only difference is AP comes under language-based state formation policy. UP can be divided with out constitutional litigation and without affecting first SRC where as AP can't.


I do not think so. Even in case of MP and Bihar division, they have to pass it by 2/3rd majority in the parliament. AP can also be divided only by 2/3rd majority in parliament. Even if they put 2nd SRC, the parliament has to pass constitutional ammendments to get the states divided.

ShyamSP
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2399
Joined: 06 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ShyamSP » 12 Nov 2011 00:00

Muppalla wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:Only difference is AP comes under language-based state formation policy. UP can be divided with out constitutional litigation and without affecting first SRC where as AP can't.


I do not think so. Even in case of MP and Bihar division, they have to pass it by 2/3rd majority in the parliament. AP can also be divided only by 2/3rd majority in parliament. Even if they put 2nd SRC, the parliament has to pass constitutional ammendments to get the states divided.


You just need simple majority. 2/3 makes the change longer-lasting. The process of division is same whether UP or AP and is done with Article 3.

I referred constitutional litigation with respect to 371(D) and language-based policy. As far as I know UP doesn't have such litigating aspects to put spanner into division except for political opposition or support by parties.

Dasari
BRFite
Posts: 561
Joined: 04 Mar 2009 09:20

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Dasari » 12 Nov 2011 02:21

fanne wrote:To be clear, UP division and AP division are two seperate issues, not to be intermixed. I have no opinion or horse in AP division.
UP division should not happen. Western UP will be mini TSP within our border. Or like Hydrabad with 25-35 Loksabha Seats and where 20 years down the line the assembly well be passing a resolution for a seperate ROP state. You think JK is a problem, this will be a bigger one.
The Nationalistic forces are apposing it. BJP has come out against it. Let's be under no illusion.

To all my brothers who are requesting a seperate Telengana (and also all my brothers for united AP), Telengana divison has nothing to do with wether UP gets divided or not (or TN, Karnataka, Bengal, Punjab, Rajasthan, Mahrastra...for that matter). Let's not mix the two issues. Fight for seperate T or united AP, please do not bring UP in it.
Thanks,
Fanne


I get it. One is division of people of Telugu and one of the developed state and the other is division of the most populous, unwieldy, backward power house of the nation. One is division of a larger state for a gain of few seats and the other is a division for loss of few seats.

As far as creation of mini TSP within border, didn't the supporters of united AP argue that formation of T would create mini NE in the middle of India or take over by EJ and what not. So I guess one is exaggeration and the other is harbinger of what to come.

Jokes aside, the truth is that creation of separates states based on political manipulations by the leaders should be stopped. A division should have very objective time tested criteria, not at the whim of leaders greedy for power. Both Mayawati in UP as well as TRS/BJP in Telangana are doing the same.

I guess the truth doesn't hit until Chickens come home to roost.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2011 02:31

You mean "natu kodi" and not chicken!

8)

fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3097
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby fanne » 12 Nov 2011 03:05

I should have clarified, I am not an UPite. So having said that, there is no chicken coming home to roost for me at least.

Apart from that being a mini TSP, the other compelling and more important argument is that UP with it large size is what keeps the Indian Center strong. Even though it has been throwing mixed verdicts in last few elections, the party that will control it will most likely control India. For that burden, I guess UP will pay a higher price for being ungovernable ....Imagine 40 states, each with 12-15 seats, I guess we would have a PM every week. Our greatest bane in history has been our fragmentation, anyone and everyone has come and kicked us. Not anymore.

For you Dasari, I am sorry, if your cause is going to hurt my country overall, I am going to appose you. You want to call me hypocrite, well tough luck, that I was and am always, but then who isn't.

Thanks,
fanne

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 12 Nov 2011 03:09

Dasari,
nobody from Coast can say anything about EJ'ism in Telangana. check out the EJ penetration of Coastal areas and then come back and let us know if AP coastal areas can really lecture the rest of the country about EJ'ism....

vnadendla
BRFite
Posts: 132
Joined: 09 Mar 2006 00:40
Location: USA

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby vnadendla » 12 Nov 2011 03:27

fanne wrote:I should have clarified, I am not an UPite. So having said that, there is no chicken coming home to roost for me at least.

Apart from that being a mini TSP, the other compelling and more important argument is that UP with it large size is what keeps the Indian Center strong. Even though it has been throwing mixed verdicts in last few elections, the party that will control it will most likely control India. For that burden, I guess UP will pay a higher price for being ungovernable ....Imagine 40 states, each with 12-15 seats, I guess we would have a PM every week. Our greatest bane in history has been our fragmentation, anyone and everyone has come and kicked us. Not anymore.

For you Dasari, I am sorry, if your cause is going to hurt my country overall, I am going to appose you. You want to call me hypocrite, well tough luck, that I was and am always, but then who isn't.

Thanks,
fanne


Don't worry. ..."that UP with it large size is what keeps the Indian Center strong" is no reason to keep UP and divide AP. AP can take the place of UP if it is in one piece. Having said that the way they are going looks to be right - create one more layer below state and above district.

What would Hyd be then? A State territory?

This would be more acceptable if it is applied uniform across India

Dasari
BRFite
Posts: 561
Joined: 04 Mar 2009 09:20

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Dasari » 12 Nov 2011 03:50

fanne wrote:I should have clarified, I am not an UPite. So having said that, there is no chicken coming home to roost for me at least.

Apart from that being a mini TSP, the other compelling and more important argument is that UP with it large size is what keeps the Indian Center strong. Even though it has been throwing mixed verdicts in last few elections, the party that will control it will most likely control India. For that burden, I guess UP will pay a higher price for being ungovernable ....Imagine 40 states, each with 12-15 seats, I guess we would have a PM every week. Our greatest bane in history has been our fragmentation, anyone and everyone has come and kicked us. Not anymore.

For you Dasari, I am sorry, if your cause is going to hurt my country overall, I am going to appose you. You want to call me hypocrite, well tough luck, that I was and am always, but then who isn't.

Thanks,
fanne


Yes, a bigger state in the center and smaller states along the periphery are strong for a country. Another gem of contradictions.

For you Dasari, I am sorry, if your cause is going to hurt my country overall, I am going to appose you. You want to call me hypocrite, well tough luck, that I was and am always, but then who isn't.


If you want to emphasize your country, let me tell you that there are no dearth of patriots in my country too. I feel the same way about my country and your cause. So please don't hurt my country by implicitly promoting division.

Again, I'm not for division of any state without an objective criteria. It it is second SRC, so be it. But don't come up with useless logic that UP division is different from AP division.

Muppalla
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7082
Joined: 12 Jun 1999 11:31

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 12 Nov 2011 03:57

devesh wrote:Dasari,
nobody from Coast can say anything about EJ'ism in Telangana. check out the EJ penetration of Coastal areas and then come back and let us know if AP coastal areas can really lecture the rest of the country about EJ'ism....


I beleive Dasari is also saying same. By seperating T, the coast will be alone with more EJism and by being united you have other numbers that are not giving the coastal EJs to press for something like the southern TN issue thingy.

The comparision here is Coastal EJ == Western UP jihadists.

However, the EJ stuff is extremely exxagarated as they are no where near the threshold of doing anything great. Their numbers are more on internet that in reality. Western UP will be 35% to 40% muslim state which is a fact and not the hot air like AP-EJism.

--------------------
Anyway, Mayawati threw a spanner in the whole small states argument as both Congress and BJP are opposed to division of UP. If she passes a resolution on Nov 21st that will change the Telangana narrative. SeemaAndhra folks will ask the high command why AP should be devided without a resolution where as not divide UP with a resolution passed? T-Vadis will say divide both UP and AP.

For BJP it does not matter even if it is emberassing to have double standards. It will only think of UP and does not care about what Andhras think.

For INC it is important to balance both as it cannot give advantage to others at the cost of INC. Hence it has already hoisted 2nd-SRC baloon. Per Surya news paper Gulamnabhi is going to do grand announcement of Telangana that will be loved by all APites 8) on Sunday.

INC strategy is to create regional councils in the near term ( a decade? ) and use SRC to actually divide all the states of India. (2 decades ? )

Dasari
BRFite
Posts: 561
Joined: 04 Mar 2009 09:20

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Dasari » 12 Nov 2011 04:13

devesh wrote:Dasari,
nobody from Coast can say anything about EJ'ism in Telangana. check out the EJ penetration of Coastal areas and then come back and let us know if AP coastal areas can really lecture the rest of the country about EJ'ism....


Devesh,

I said some integrationists use EJism as excuse, analogous to all kind of scary propositions by alarmists of any change. I didn't say which side of the border that EJism will thrive or thriving. In the past I even rubbished the claims of EJism has something to do with current struggle. Don't look everything through Telangana-Andhra smoking glass to drive a point.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9558
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 12 Nov 2011 04:58

For T Demand, seems like Autonomous Counsel in shourt term and hope for some decision by 2nd SRC to solve the issue one way or other in the long term.

Enforcement directorate is calling Jagan for questioning. So presure on Jagan resumed if there is any let up in the first place. All sides be it Congress, TRS, TDP are playing games in Ap and maya, Sonia and Sushma are playing game in UP.

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 12 Nov 2011 06:15

Dasari, sorry jumped the gun in excitement. I got the wrong meaning from what you said. peace.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53475
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ramana » 12 Nov 2011 06:27

No blue on blue please.

chaanakya
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9513
Joined: 09 Jan 2010 13:30

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby chaanakya » 12 Nov 2011 12:06

Muppalla wrote:

--------------------
Anyway, Mayawati threw a spanner in the whole small states argument as both Congress and BJP are opposed to division of UP. If she passes a resolution on Nov 21st that will change the Telangana narrative. SeemaAndhra folks will ask the high command why AP should be devided without a resolution where as not divide UP with a resolution passed? T-Vadis will say divide both UP and AP.

No state can be divided without Assembly resolution. So AP would have to follow that as well.

Mayawati has indeed sprung a surprise and in a way good that Idea of smaller states irrespective of linguistic boundaries is catching up.

In fact there could be a case for TN and Karnataka and Mah etc to be made into smaller states as well for all round development and level playing field.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9558
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 12 Nov 2011 12:39

No sir. Assembly resolution accepting the division is not complusory. Only taking opinion of the Assembly is a must as per Art 3. But Parliament can over rule it and take its own decision. If AP Assembly passes a resolution that there shall not be division of AP then also Parliament can proceed with the division of AP. But whether the present and future Parliaments have such a will to do so is the question. Art 3 is formed in respect of a nation which is yet to set its administrative structures in order. Hence the freedom to Parliament and esay method of organisation or reorganisation of states. But such free use of power is possible in a nation where regional feelings of quite high is the question. Most of the regional parties like Akalis. NC, SS, Biju Janatha Dal, DMK/AAIDMK may not accept such conditions which gives total freedom to Delhi with no say to the local/regional parties or State Assemblies.

By the way i have started a new thread of UP division. So let us limit T discussion here and UP discussions there. But i think there may lot of cross postings.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: KJo, komal, Sagrawal, UlanBatori, Vamsee, vijayk and 73 guests