Telangana Monitor

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Yagnasri
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Dec 2011 15:39

Jagan at best performance level will spoil the chances of Congress if he is around till 2014. It is in the interest of congress not to keep Jagan in the circulation (Jail) immediately. Alternatively brining Jagan into INC is an option. But I do not think Jagan will come back to INC. Jagan in the near future keep himself out of Jail, go for all out fight on INC and TDP and win at least majority of the seats. If it can not show good performance in the by elections it is also not possible for the Jagan gang to keep fighting for almost 3 years. It looks like now that Jagan may not win many and TDP and INC + ( in the name of TRS) will win most of the seats and that will be end of Jagan and “YSR legacy”.

TRS now lost most of the momentum. It no longer set the agenda for the state. CBN is back and will try to regain his party strength in Telangana areas. We have to remember TDP done lot of good things like village admin reforms etc which are remembered in Telangana areas even now. They encouraged lot of BC leaders in entire state. The T agitation built on lies may help TRS to win good no of seats in 2014. But beyond that I have serious doubts on the future of TRS as a party. Even in 2014 if they contest they may not win more than 30 to 40 seats. Further they may eat into congress votes more than TDP as anti congress voters will not vote for TRS which is now known to every one as Congress front.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Virupaksha » 06 Dec 2011 16:20

Narayana Rao garu,

I will infact say the opposite. Both the TDP and TRS are fighting for the same pie, the traditional anti-congress vote. Note the leader's castes and who the TRS aims its guns at.

For example except for tokenism, TRS doesnt even have any muslim leaders - the traditional congress votebank. The votes of TRS is kamma + BCs, not the muslim+SC/ST vote bank of congress. Note the speakings of Krishna Madiga (a crypto congress ) against TRS. Is there a leader from TRS who is going mouth to mouth with him?

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby vijayk » 06 Dec 2011 17:16

In a way, this No confidence motion is a blessing even if the CON Gandha clan and their servants in AP won. The CON and their agents (Chiranjeevi, Jagan, KCR, Telangana CON party) all have been exposed.

With the veil coming off, it is much clearer for people to see the CON party and the CON agents. With prices touching the roof and Jagan's CON act exposed, the clouds are clear. It is upto TDP to make their case. Naidu should control the dynastic ambitions if he is thinking of making his son or family member as his successor.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ramana » 06 Dec 2011 20:26

Tell me more about KVPR Rao. Who is he? What is he? and his world view? The TOI new reprot said he was brought back from Delhi to persuade Jagan supporters' but couldn't turn them around.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 06 Dec 2011 20:33

ramana wrote:Tell me more about KVPR Rao. Who is he? What is he? and his world view? The TOI new reprot said he was brought back from Delhi to persuade Jagan supporters' but couldn't turn them around.


Here is a brief from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._V._P._Ramachandra_Rao

KVP Ramachandra Rao was born in Ampapuram, Krishna District, Andhra Pradesh. He is from Telprolu Zamindari Family and he belongs to Velama caste. He did his M.B.B.S. at Gulbarga in Karnataka. He is two years junior to Y.S Raja Sekhar Reddy. They were best friends since then.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby vnadendla » 06 Dec 2011 21:45

johneeG wrote:If TDP does not support BJP at centre, even if TDP and BJP are in a position to form a govt, then what will TDP do? Sit out, and let Congress form Govt?

I think CBN is very wary and is being extra cautious. He must remember that he lost not because of BJP, but due to his own policies that were seen by people as very unfriendly and strict. He neglected agriculture, also.

YSR charmed the people and people fell for his gimmicks.

CBN seems to be of belief that his defeat was due to aligning with BJP. But that was a minor factor and not the major reason for his defeat.

TDP should sit out and let Cong form Govt. BJP Unfortunately has proven to be against the interests of telugu people. Its Quixotic effort to punch above its weight abandoning telugu people should not be forgotten. It is against the interests of unity of AP if BJP gets another foothold on power. Telugu people should campaign everywhere against it.

Why not the same for Cong? Because Cong can be constrained by its dependence of AP MPs. (ruling or oposition). BJP is not so.

Besides if there is any affinity of TDP to BJP, Cong MLAs and MPs will start saying that only they can ensure AP unity.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ShyamSP » 06 Dec 2011 23:28

johneeG wrote:If TDP does not support BJP at centre, even if TDP and BJP are in a position to form a govt, then what will TDP do? Sit out, and let Congress form Govt?

I think CBN is very wary and is being extra cautious. He must remember that he lost not because of BJP, but due to his own policies that were seen by people as very unfriendly and strict. He neglected agriculture, also.

YSR charmed the people and people fell for his gimmicks.

CBN seems to be of belief that his defeat was due to aligning with BJP. But that was a minor factor and not the major reason for his defeat.


If BJP is in a position to form NDA government, TDP will support the way it did in the past if not join in NDA government.

As for as the CBN belief on aligning BJP is not right is NOT correct. If you observe AP vote banks of TDP it doesn't matter if it aligns or not. His saying was only for consumption at Center as he also wears hat of third front. In fact, TDP is one party where it has wide range of allies from both right-wing (BJP) to left wing (CPI/CPM) without losing its core interests and votebanks.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby vnadendla » 06 Dec 2011 23:40

ShyamSP wrote:
johneeG wrote:If TDP does not support BJP at centre, even if TDP and BJP are in a position to form a govt, then what will TDP do? Sit out, and let Congress form Govt?

I think CBN is very wary and is being extra cautious. He must remember that he lost not because of BJP, but due to his own policies that were seen by people as very unfriendly and strict. He neglected agriculture, also.

YSR charmed the people and people fell for his gimmicks.

CBN seems to be of belief that his defeat was due to aligning with BJP. But that was a minor factor and not the major reason for his defeat.


If BJP is in a position to form NDA government, TDP will support the way it did in the past if not join in NDA government.

As for as the CBN belief on aligning BJP is not right is NOT correct. If you observe AP vote banks of TDP it doesn't matter if it aligns or not. His saying was only for consumption at Center as he also wears hat of third front. In fact, TDP is one party where it has wide range of allies from both right-wing (BJP) to left wing (CPI/CPM) without losing its core interests and votebanks.


Why did Congress pull back from T? Because there is an across the board (irrespective of vote bank) blowback from rest of AP. CBN will do well to note it.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 07 Dec 2011 00:26

vnadendla wrote:
johneeG wrote:If TDP does not support BJP at centre, even if TDP and BJP are in a position to form a govt, then what will TDP do? Sit out, and let Congress form Govt?

I think CBN is very wary and is being extra cautious. He must remember that he lost not because of BJP, but due to his own policies that were seen by people as very unfriendly and strict. He neglected agriculture, also.

YSR charmed the people and people fell for his gimmicks.

CBN seems to be of belief that his defeat was due to aligning with BJP. But that was a minor factor and not the major reason for his defeat.

TDP should sit out and let Cong form Govt. BJP Unfortunately has proven to be against the interests of telugu people. Its Quixotic effort to punch above its weight abandoning telugu people should not be forgotten. It is against the interests of unity of AP if BJP gets another foothold on power. Telugu people should campaign everywhere against it.

Why not the same for Cong? Because Cong can be constrained by its dependence of AP MPs. (ruling or oposition). BJP is not so.

Besides if there is any affinity of TDP to BJP, Cong MLAs and MPs will start saying that only they can ensure AP unity.




are you concerned at all for the EJ penetration of AP under the watchful and protective care of INC? or is that not a "Telugu" concern? for me, part of being a Telugu, is the underlying "Hindu" roots. do you find it concerning that INC is supporting forces which are destroying these roots? or does that not fall into the category of "Telugu interests". stop with the dhimmi thinking and think broadly, or your grandchildren might be EJ's and they will probably live their lives thinking about how "ignorant" their ancestors were for being "Hindus".

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ShyamSP » 07 Dec 2011 00:34

vnadendla wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:If BJP is in a position to form NDA government, TDP will support the way it did in the past if not join in NDA government.

As for as the CBN belief on aligning BJP is not right is NOT correct. If you observe AP vote banks of TDP it doesn't matter if it aligns or not. His saying was only for consumption at Center as he also wears hat of third front. In fact, TDP is one party where it has wide range of allies from both right-wing (BJP) to left wing (CPI/CPM) without losing its core interests and votebanks.


Why did Congress pull back from T? Because there is an across the board (irrespective of vote bank) blowback from rest of AP. CBN will do well to note it.


BJP will have to go neutral if it wants to form NDA government in the scenario. There is no reason why they can't stick to similar terms as they did in the past.

People are aware that while BJP played idiotic games Congress played criminal games. I don't see Congress has huge advantage over BJP over this issue.
If they excuse Congress for pulling back they will have to excuse BJP if it goes neutral.

If TDP gets at least 25 seats all these discussions are mute as it will be numbers that determine not political party policies towards T.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby vnadendla » 07 Dec 2011 00:46

ShyamSP wrote:BJP will have to go neutral if it wants to form NDA government in the scenario. There is no reason why they can't stick to similar terms as they did in the past.

People are aware that while BJP played idiotic games Congress played criminal games. I don't see Congress has huge advantage over BJP over this issue.
If they excuse Congress for pulling back they will have to excuse BJP if it goes neutral.

If TDP gets at least 25 seats all these discussions are mute as it will be numbers that determine not political party policies towards T.


You are not getting it. Congress cannot play criminal games any more because it is in a bear hug. No such constraint for BJP to not play idiotic games. Of course tactically it may agree. Unless Telugus gain influence beyond AP they are always at mercy of BJP. Cong can get out of bear hug if it gets back couple of "lost" states. Till then I'd prefer Cong.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2011 00:49

What bear hug? INC as long as it has the 2Gs will try to split AP. There is no doubt for that. It has become even more crucial.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby vnadendla » 07 Dec 2011 01:00

ramana wrote:What bear hug? INC as long as it has the 2Gs will try to split AP. There is no doubt for that. It has become even more crucial.


INC cannot split AP and lose 25 -30 MP seats for generations. How many other major states is it a significant power any more? That I believe is only reason that AP is united today. The reason is significant wealth of a lot of people's extended family / friends is in Hyd. And extended family / friends means a lot socially even if not financially. +-5 crore andhras and +-50 lakh "settlers" is a 10:1 ratio. Vote banks and caste sytem and slogans cannot recapture AP if the Loss of Hyd (without significant compensation) destroys AP economically and kills Cong politically.

Added latter:

I am anti Cong, anti BJP, pro India, Pro AP. I named my son after my country.
Last edited by vnadendla on 07 Dec 2011 01:23, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 07 Dec 2011 01:11

vnadendla:

what is the EJ mafia if not a criminal game? I suppose the fact that you're completely ignoring it means you don't care about it. what are the thousands of crores of corruption if not criminal? what criminal games has BJP played "against" AP? it has no footing in AP. why not apply the same treatment to all parties? why does BJP stand out. this is your own political bias showing its face. nothing more.

almost every political party, including TDP at one time, tried to take advantage of TRS phenomenon. why is BJP singled out for "idiotic" and "criminal" games? INC is playing a much grander "criminal" game. I'm sorry, but your constant pandering for INC interests makes it clear where your bias is....I'm afraid your constant slogan of "BJP against Telugu interests", whatever that means, has no value...

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 07 Dec 2011 02:14

vnadendla wrote:INC cannot split AP and lose 25 -30 MP seats for generations.


I am with ramana on this.

You are really making a mistake in analysis. AP split saga is NOT over by any means. I request everyone to not get into illusions of T campaign is over and congress has eaten a humble pie.

AP split is not really about Telangana sentiment or whatever it is. You need to read some recent news items (I will put if I find the links) regarding INC strategies. For a starter read the IB related news in Indian Interests/National security threads posted by "sum".

Per the INC's analysis they do not see BJP as an enemy or a threat. However, they see the following are their real enemies:
(1) Modi
(2) TDP

As long as TDP is relevant, Telangana split chapter is not going to close. Interestingly they still did not achieve what they actually started.

Similarly on the national front, anti-Modi activities will be on top of the billboard charts of Inteligence Brew.

Congress still has leaverage in AP and that is the reason for a lot of INC folks not jumping towards Jagan. INC also has time on its side and it is on a mission to finish off Jagan.

By the way did you all not notice that though it is INC's mission is to make TDP irrelevant, it is always Jagan's YSR party or TRS that fights with TDP in the media, assembly etc. The results of vote of confidence will dent that to a bit. I think it was a great strategy from TDP.

Added later:
Q: Who is really desperate among all those who want creation of Telangana?
A: Sonia Gandhi

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby vnadendla » 07 Dec 2011 03:34

Muppalla wrote:
vnadendla wrote:INC cannot split AP and lose 25 -30 MP seats for generations.


I am with ramana on this.

You are really making a mistake in analysis. AP split saga is NOT over by any means. I request everyone to not get into illusions of T campaign is over and congress has eaten a humble pie.

AP split is not really about Telangana sentiment or whatever it is. You need to read some recent news items (I will put if I find the links) regarding INC strategies. For a starter read the IB related news in Indian Interests/National security threads posted by "sum".

Per the INC's analysis they do not see BJP as an enemy or a threat. However, they see the following are their real enemies:
(1) Modi
(2) TDP

As long as TDP is relevant, Telangana split chapter is not going to close. Interestingly they still did not achieve what they actually started.

Similarly on the national front, anti-Modi activities will be on top of the billboard charts of Inteligence Brew.

Congress still has leaverage in AP and that is the reason for a lot of INC folks not jumping towards Jagan. INC also has time on its side and it is on a mission to finish off Jagan.

By the way did you all not notice that though it is INC's mission is to make TDP irrelevant, it is always Jagan's YSR party or TRS that fights with TDP in the media, assembly etc. The results of vote of confidence will dent that to a bit. I think it was a great strategy from TDP.

Added later:
Q: Who is really desperate among all those who want creation of Telangana?
A: Sonia Gandhi


1) ....INC's mission is to make TDP irrelevant? Why? Only answer is to retain AP. But they will lose it if they give T. So atmost they can only keep pot boiling.
2) ....Modi. Again why? Why not BJP?

Still 1) and 2) doesn't prove Sonia is desperate to create T. Why? To destroy TDP? Give me one reason why creating T and losing rest of AP will destroy TDP?

What I am saying is if we give Sonia her 30 MPs on while ensuring they are pro united AP she is checkmated. The trick is to get BJP also to that point. So that both main parties are pro united AP. And only way to get BJP to that point (given that you cannot threaten to take away what they don't have ie +-0 MPs) is to expand our influence in rest of country so that our capability to cause pain is increased.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 07 Dec 2011 04:05

how is voting for INC "increasing our influence"? I can't get around this logic. I would say that it is the insane amount of influence that INC has in AP that has resulted in this mess.

IMVHO, you have convinced yourself that the T-vadis started this "movement". as long as you believe this, you will continue to believe that INC is the "savior". and ergo, it was not INC which started and fueled this movement, but the 'hated' T-vadis.

"giving Sonia her 30 MP's" will 1). increase INC's entrenched interests in AP 2). turn AP into a laundering operation for INC's twisted games all around the country 3). give free access to EJ's and their activities 4). continue to keep INC in power in Delhi.

I really don't know how any of the above is "good" for AP or India. I don't even buy the logic that if AP "gives" all its seats to INC, then INC won't play games in AP. INC is already playing games. it is playing games with the fundamental socio-cultural fabric of Telugus by funding the EJ mafia. in the long term, forget T-vadis, if EJ's continue their trajectory, AP will be divided in far worse ways than anything the T-vadis can even remotely dream of......

it is not in AP's interests to continue to "give" INC seats....

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2011 04:11

Its the strategy of the Ekachakrapura residents towards handling Bakasura. You are thinking like Kunti.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 07 Dec 2011 04:22

ramana wrote:Its the strategy of the Ekachakrapura residents towards handling Bakasura. You are thinking like Kunti.



was that for vnadendla or me? and I'm also missing the story reference here.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 07 Dec 2011 05:00

The whole T agitation is contain and eliminate TDP. So agitation is not dead and it will be recreated as and when needed by INC. At the same time INC will be careful in future becuase the agitation is proving difficult to manage and 2014 elections are fast approching. CBN provoved his political ability by this no confidence motion and now TRS and Jagan are gone as for as the anti congress vote is concerned. By elections will finish off Jagan if he fails to win majority seats.

Comming to BJP and TDP relations, TDP will support any anti congress governament in Delhi in 2014. They have no other option. AP muslims are a factor in some seats only and they are by and large with INC. So there is not major vote bank loss to TDP. If there is any it will be compensated with anti congress votes it will gain. BJP as for as division of AP goes will not be in a position to do so as it has to depend on Siva Sena and also most of the TDP MP's will be from Non Telangana areas. Further with TDP in power in AP they also will not support division of AP. Congress may try to do some agitation drama but with police acting as it should such agitation dramas will be short lived and fail. Remember " Sakala Janula Samme" was wound up in few days when police started acting.

If BJP try to divide AP after 2014 it will face formidable chelleges. No one from BJP party in non Telangana areas will support party decision. INC will create such an agitation in Non Telangana areas it will be paractically imposible for then to do so. Remember they need to take opinion of the AP assemble which will be negative. Can they still proceed to divide AP after a negative vote in AP assemble? I doubt it. Sushma Swaraj may want to do drama acting in AP but after 2014 it will be difforent ball game.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Virupaksha » 07 Dec 2011 05:04

Ramana ji's reference:

The strategy of keeping congress (bakasura) always hooked on by giving mlas (men) so that it (bakasura) doesnt completely destroy Andhra (EkaChakrapura). - strategy of EkaChakrapura villagers

Kunti on the other hand thought of destroying bakasura once and for all, and was ready to take the risk of losing her son.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Muppalla » 07 Dec 2011 05:48

vnadendla, You are very narrowly AP focussed and hence I am afraid you are not really trying or reading stuff. Another thing you should try is by shedding you unnecessary and extreme anti-BJP stand with respect to AP.

BJP was and is irrelevant as far as AP is concerned. Even in HYD where they used to fight MIM have handed the baton to TDP. It is TDP vs MIM in the city. Everything about BJP doing or passing T in parliament is hot air and psy-ops. They just do not have either means or a say. The sabre-rattling is all psy-ops to put INC in an embrassing situation. Mostly they may achieve by stealing few parl seats from TRS if TRS really wins some in the next elections. I wouldn't waste my time on BJP with respect to AP. From an anti-Hindu perspective if you are anti-BJP then it is fine as that is a philosophy called as secularism in India. However, from an AP perspective, if you are anti-BJP then you should be anti-Ajit Singh too and anti-Mayawati too as both of them openly supported T. All three are same as far as AP is concerned. Regarding BJP passing T formation in parl because they have numbers, it is also useless topic because it will only happen if INC puts it for voting. They are just playing chicken and they do not have a policy for AP. If NDA comes to power (which is also a fiction at this time) will BJP introduce the bill and that is also not possible as the coalition at that time will not allow this to be their common minimum program. On a real good day BJP can get a max of 170. There is no BJP rule without coalition. Division of states is becoming very difficult even if there is one opposing partner in the coalition. Is BJP stupid and idiotic? Yes they are and we should leave it there.

However, BJP is extremely relevant in national politics and you cannot avoid it and until a real alternative to both current criminal-INC and stupid-BJP emerges. It could be something new like Anna Hazare or Baba Ramdev or just an overhauled INC or an intelligent BJP. Until then if someone says I am anti-INC and also anti-BJP it is foolish as they are the only two blocks at the center.

If you are really mad at someone wanting to divide AP and want to take a revenge, first try identifying your number ONE enemy. It has to be one and only one. Choose between INC and BJP and not both. Try who proposed and who propagated and who sustained. Don't go after those who joined later or not try going after the foot soldiers.

Now regarding why Modi and TDP are the most dreaded enimies of INC:
(1) See every state which is not ruled by non-BJP parties. Next see how many parties are really anti-Congress and are also relevant? Also see how many are namesake anti-congress but if push comes to shove who among them will help Congress and who will definitely not help at all. Answer: There are hardly any except for TDP. If TDP wins AP the game is up.

(2) Why Modi is enemy and not BJP - They do not see any leader in BJP who can threaten them at national level that has a potential to change cource. BJP getting some 100 odd seats is no big deal for them to be concerned. However, Modi is only one who can galvanize the BJP system to take them from current 116 to a maximum of 170. They also have a good handle on most of the BJP leaders. Hence most of the IB and CBI is focussing on Modi. In a direct bidding of Modi Vs Rahul G, Modi wins handdown. But with any other BJP leader Rahul G has a fair chance.

(3) Parties like Maya, Mulayam, ect are all manipulatable. What INC calculates is how it can form a government even if INC just gets 130 seats. In such a situation which parties should not be in the stock. When it has 130 there should be no TDP in the other list because it is not manipulatable. It can manipulate even MNS, Biju Janata and Nitish too.

Bottomline - If TDP revives and Modi become PM candidate for BJP then the chances of INC losing UPA-3 plot is high. Otherwise even with a reduced INC, it can still form UPA-3. Remember UPA-1 it formed the goverment with just 142 seats and it survived after left's exit using SP. Also do any number of calculations, had TDP won AP there would be no UPA.

Take your picks. Anti-BJP and anti-INC does not exist and third front is a mirage.

Added later:
Regarding you question why dividing AP is destroying TDP - By dividing AP it will take a dent on Telugu pride stuff of TDP. In Seemandhra even in the short run if it can win just using caste power say about five to six seats and make TRS types win in Telangana, Congress has won the state. INC does not need to win AP on its own. All it needs is TDP losing AP. Here is INC's victory as an example if INC gives Telangana INC-Andhra 7, Jagan 6, MIM 1,TRS 11, INC-T 5,TDP 12 Do not tell me that if T is given congress will not get six to seven seats in SA region. It can still get those via caste calculations. The real loss of INC in AP is only if TDP crosses 25 seats.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby RamaY » 07 Dec 2011 08:13

Excellent points Muppalaji.

Few points on TDP and Modi.

1. It was TDP's NTR who kicked off an alternative to congress forum with the help of left.
2. TDP is one regional party that will always be against INC.
3. Modi is the only leader who is trying to alter the national course toward Indic interests. Everyone else is happy to settle for Indian Interests == (sic) secular interests, atleast for now.
4. Modi is a leader who brings votes outside BJP core.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ramana » 07 Dec 2011 08:20

devesh wrote:
ramana wrote:Its the strategy of the Ekachakrapura residents towards handling Bakasura. You are thinking like Kunti.



was that for vnadendla or me? and I'm also missing the story reference here.

Virupaksha explained well.

Muppalla, You have explained better than most political experts. Very clear and concise.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 07 Dec 2011 19:28

In short the effort of the INC to retain AP and destroy TDP is to retain power in Delhi on long term basis. Resent response to CBN walk through Nalgonda and Khammam is indication to INC also that people are mainly interest in admin issues and T factor is not that major in at least in these two dist. Further almost everyone agrees that Mahboob Nagar, Twin Cities and Medak are not so big on division of AP. The comming by elections (if the 18 MLAs of Jagan are disquilified) to 24 seats will give an indication to congress to see the public mood and change the tactics accordingly.

The arrest and imprisonment of Cheruku Sudhakar under NSA for 12 months is a clear and very very hard messge to T Vadis who wanted to indulge in attacks on non local people.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 07 Dec 2011 20:14

Virupaksha ji, thank you for the explanation.

Muppalla ji, very good point. that is definitely something peculiar about the TDP. I would say that the TDP and BJP (perhaps even Akalis in Punjab) are the only 2 parties which have been anti-INC since founding and continue in that tradition. all other parties play "cool" games. but TDP has been very consistent in being the alternative to INC. it is very important to study why this is so. especially the people and cultural background which gave rise to this persistent and consistent anti-INC mentality. perhaps might hold markers for future rise of such forces across the country.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 07 Dec 2011 23:07

INC normally do not care of AP and Telugu people when it comes for respect and power sharing. Even now we hardly have any representation in the Union cabinet for AP. INC MP's from AP are also tend to keep quite when all other states getting projects for their states. PVNR like leaders were not allowed their due by INC. Remember how there is not even a single monument for him or not even a single intitute named after him till date. None of his family members are now given any position in INC. INC just takes AP for granted even now and it is from there the birth of TDP came. The main issue is of lingistic pride which is not divisive but nationalistic and aimed at national pride. INC for long dependent on Reddys of AP and kept them as ruling class. Rest of the people had no say in AP and when others started demanding their share TDP has given scope for their asparations. Most of the TDP leaders today were broght into politics by NTR. TDP further have a long record of administrativ reforms, development works and welfare measures to its credit. It did tired its level best to counter INC at Delhi which no other regional party did. NTR and CBN held improtent positions in 3rd front politics. NTR consistently tried to forge unity of non congress parties and nation benifited a lot from it.

In short AP is now what was Kakathiya or more like Vijayanagara empire for INC which is just behaving like Delhi Sulthanite.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 08 Dec 2011 02:02

present day AP is not Vijayanagara. no comparison at all. lets not delude ourselves. in terms of political boundaries, present day South is very similar to immediately pre-Islamic-invasion South. AP today is roughly like Kakatiya then. Hoysala and Seuna Yadava rule again roughly equivalent of Karnataka and Maha respectively. there was no Kerala then and Chola/Pandya ruled present day TN and KE.

IMVHO, present day AP has 2 significant "pulls" or "flows" that effect it. one is the Deccan "pull" on the non-coastal areas. the other is the Seaward "pull" on coast. the Deccan pull has been deeply damaged due to continuous occupation by Islamic forces for several centuries. the Coastal "pull" is significantly infiltrated by the business/mercantile networks that developed under British rule and still flourish.

after thinking and borrowing ideas (hat tip brihaspati ji), my thinking is that coastal AP is also a conduit for the "flow" between Tamil country and North-East, and in a broader sense all the way up to SE Asia. the coastal situation will be susceptible to these 2 "pulls". ideas, thoughts, movements, and general momentum that develops in the Deccan areas of Maha+AP+Karnataka and the same between TN and NE are the most significant forces that affect the direction of the Coast.

the former Nizam areas (significant chunks of present day Maha, AP, and KA) need to reawaken from the long slumber. most other possible sources of resistance (including the most recent one, Maratha origins in Western Maha) have been induced to join the global mercantile system after having been subdued by war and force. Kerala and TN also will face increasing heat from the inimical forces that have been harbored. Chattisgarh and Orissa also face the same problems. there could be a very significant convergence point, in terms of civilizational interests, from the northern arc stretching from Maha+Chattisgarh+Orissa all the down to the tip of the peninsula.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 08 Dec 2011 19:38


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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 08 Dec 2011 20:21

I stopped reading at page 2. it is too depressing. is there any hope left for Andhra? we are going into the dustbin of history...what's more, the Andhra lands will be used as a launching pad for these evil forces to destroy Bharat too....

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby johneeG » 08 Dec 2011 20:30

TDP is anti-INC, perhaps, because INC is the main opponent to it at state level. In most other states, INC has wakened and is in no position to threaten the other parties' existence. If another credible alternative to INC rises in AP, then the attitude (of TDP) may change regarding providing support to INC at centre.

I think, AP is safe, only, as long as the Govt at centre (UPA or NDA) is dependent on the AP MPs.

The political parlance in India has been mentored carefully and as a result, no party, except BJP, dares to question the concept of 'secularism' as practiced in India. Even BJP has to 'clarify' that it is not against secularism but is opposed only to pseudo-secularism. Yet, it is tagged as 'communal'.

Any figure or party that questions the validity or necessity of 'secularism' in India, is immediately and strictly ostracized. This ploy has served well and India remains secular.

Generally, Secularism would mean, "Equality of all individuals before the law regardless of professed creed". However, in India, Secularism means to pursue the equality of all communities.

There is a huge difference between the two positions. In the first position, the state will have a single law for all it citizens (individual level) and it treats everyone in same manner. In the second position, the state will try to keep all communities (community level) as equal. Since, communities have differing strengths (numbers), the perks and privileges are so bestowed to create 'balance' i.e. the smaller communities are brought on equal keel with the larger communities. It means, larger communities will be given lesser perks and they are expected to shut up and put up. The smaller communities are laden with perks and privileges and their right to demand-more is also acknowledged.

Interestingly, Indic religions were clubbed with Hinduism and have been denied 'minority' status. And the 'lower classes' of Hinduism are treated as minorities.

This is a flawed system. It is neither proper secularism nor a fair system. This system treats the communities disproportionately on the basis of their creeds. This is exactly opposite of what secularism is supposed to be.

Within this system, the aggression of minority communities is incentivized. If those communities also happen to be missionary, in regard to their creeds, then the majority community is under a siege. And worst, the state will do everything to stop the majority community from defending itself culturally.

This is the present condition of Hinduism in India. Saying this, amounts to 'communalism' in Indian political climate.

The only political party that appears as a saving grace for Hindus is BJP. So, BJP's rise is beneficial to Hindus.

However, BJP is not without flaws. Further, there are attempts to make BJP gradually deviate from its 'original' position and encourage it to imitate INC and accept the ‘secularism’.

To me, BJP's support to breaking AP amounts to blasphemy, regardless of excuses. This is especially important because BJP is supposed to be 'Nationalistic'. Nationalism involves the protection of linguistic and regional identities.

So, yes, BJP must not be spared if it shows any symptom of placing lust of power ahead of Nationalism just as a son must not be spared if he commits a mistake. A suitable reprimand at the first mistake prevents any potential bad behavior in the long run.

The general arguments are:
a) BJP is not a major player in deciding the fate of AP.
b) Why isolate BJP for targeting when INC is the major culprit?
c) Hindus needs BJP, do dont harm it.
d) BJP has always supported the idea of small states.



BJP has always supported the idea of small states

This argument has been rensdered redundant with BJP's stand in regard to division of UP.


Hindus need BJP, so dont harm it.
BJP is essential. However, one should also guard against giving a free ticket to BJP especially if it is showing symptoms of power-grabbing becoming a core interest than preserving the interests of Nation. In this regard, RSS has taken a proper stand with regard to T.

Anyway, there is no harm for BJP, if one protests against its stand.

Why isolate BJP for targeting when INC is the major culprit?
Yes, INC is the root. TRS is its tool. So, one must protest against these two entities if one is supporter of United-AP. However, these two groups are powerful and quickly move to silence their critics through use of force. This is particularly true in T regions. TRS has ensured that no voice against separate T is allowed to rise by use of Goonda tactics.

So, TRS and Congress are too powerful right now. BJP, on the other hand, is the soft target. It is an ideal target for supporters of United-AP to rally the support of masses, particularly in T regions. Once it has gathered enough momentum and strength, then other stronger parties can also be taken on.

Such protests will also make it clear to BJP and other concerned parties that there is considerable opposition to the idea of separate T. It is particularly important for such protests to happen within T regions.

BJP is not the major player in deciding the fate of AP:
BJP, as a national party, is a major player, directly or indirectly. It may not have much strength in particular state, yet its stand at national level has an importance that cannot be ignored. Now, BJP, with the intention of embarrassing INC, is ready to give bali of Telugus. This tactic is not acceptable.

Such cheap tricks should not be tolerated and such behavior needs to be nipped in the bud.

There is another possibility: BJP is not a major player in AP. Now, by protesting against its stand, one is highlighting BJP. BJP gets publicity. BJP is being made a player by protesting against its stand. If BJP sticks to its stand, it will earn respect among supporters of separate T. If it changes its stand, then BJP will gain acceptance among those opposed to separate T.

Right now, BJP is seen as small fry whose views dont matter.

Summarizing in conclusion: Protesting against BJP will have following advantages:
a) It will allow people to rally against a soft target like BJP, specially in T areas.
b) It will demonstrate the opposition that is there to the idea of T, specially within T areas.
c) It will allow BJP to get much needed publicity and thereby become a player in AP.
d) There is no real harm to BJP by protesting against its stand.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Dec 2011 20:31

devesh wrote:I stopped reading at page 2. it is too depressing. is there any hope left for Andhra? we are going into the dustbin of history...what's more, the Andhra lands will be used as a launching pad for these evil forces to destroy Bharat too....


Wow wow take cool aid! Yes even as per Christian sources Andhra is now around 19% christian, not all Christians are anti- Indian and many have contributed greatly to this country. Why anguish, the INC will however probably benefit. But rather than doom and gloom lets how it plays about. After most people have made a choice for their reasons and they should be happy for it.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby johneeG » 08 Dec 2011 20:41

devesh wrote:I stopped reading at page 2. it is too depressing. is there any hope left for Andhra? we are going into the dustbin of history...what's more, the Andhra lands will be used as a launching pad for these evil forces to destroy Bharat too....


Yes, I too dont read such things because they are really depressing and tragic. I cant bear it.

However, one thing that I remind myself: Santana Dharma is without birth or death. It is eternal. Eshwara protects the Dharma. When it is being undermined, he will descend to protect it. Vishnu as Vyasa and Shiva as Shankara did it in the past.

One's duty is to abide by Dharma and do his bit to stop the mlechha forces.

Aditya V,
I think Devesh is anguished as a (telugu)Hindu to see that Hinduism is under assault. Why take cool aid? Do you expect Hindus to celebrate the missionary activity against Hinduism?

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 09 Dec 2011 02:31

Church activities are a is part of invation of the nations. In respect of teh security angle look at our north east states. Please also read how church is active in its opposition to the Nuclear plan in TN. There it is even spening money live anything. Just because the plant is made from Russian support. Look at the role of Church in naxal areas of Orrissa and Chatisgarh. They can kill even 85 years Hindu saint and get away with it.

There is nothing innocent or religious here. It is part of the game plan. Once the civilisational roots of the nation are damaged nothing remains to protect in any nation. COnversion makes you totally disconnected with your national roots. Suddenly we are told all your national ethos, values, cultural aspects, gods, your own parents etc are evil and required to be discarded. If this is not invation then want is?

Deveshji - Give me a mail at rlnarayanarao@gmail.com - We can discuss this matter saparately.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 09 Dec 2011 02:38

Narayana Rao garu,
I will write up my concerns and email you. but I feel that time has come for us to do something. these days I find myself increasingly restless. there is only so long we can be satisfied with learning on internet forums. at some point, time comes for active field work.

give me time, I'll write to you.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Venkarl » 09 Dec 2011 03:42

Aditya_V wrote:
devesh wrote:I stopped reading at page 2. it is too depressing. is there any hope left for Andhra? we are going into the dustbin of history...what's more, the Andhra lands will be used as a launching pad for these evil forces to destroy Bharat too....


Wow wow take cool aid! Yes even as per Christian sources Andhra is now around 19% christian, not all Christians are anti- Indian and many have contributed greatly to this country. Why anguish, the INC will however probably benefit. But rather than doom and gloom lets how it plays about. After most people have made a choice for their reasons and they should be happy for it.


:eek: :eek: seriously....sometimes you amaze me Aditya garu

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Venkarl » 09 Dec 2011 03:56

devesh wrote:Narayana Rao garu,
I will write up my concerns and email you. but I feel that time has come for us to do something. these days I find myself increasingly restless. there is only so long we can be satisfied with learning on internet forums. at some point, time comes for active field work.

give me time, I'll write to you.


Devesh bro, I know that you are aware of the fact that these conversions are politically motivated, and under such support, conversions will continue no matter what. RSS/BD/VHP etc seems to be not interested in AP affairs. Only reports, no action.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby Yagnasri » 09 Dec 2011 06:57

Time for action AP has come long back and we need to awake up at least now. Just now I saw on TV9 Sri Chinna Giyya Swammy making comment - " Church gives and Temple takes" He was speaking in some meeting and was making critical comments on the TTD board runs Tirumala Temple. I wonder he understood how is comments will be twisted by EJ.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby devesh » 09 Dec 2011 09:40

what was he saying actually? what was his context? also, its Chinna Jeeyar Swamy.

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Re: Telangana Monitor

Postby ShyamSP » 09 Dec 2011 10:46

devesh wrote:what was he saying actually? what was his context? also, its Chinna Jeeyar Swamy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... sCN6y1VaZo


Basically he is asking why should Government control temples.


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