Telangana Monitor

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member_22286
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by member_22286 »

RamaY wrote:Are we seeing Desecration of BRAmbedkar's statues in response to CBN's statement against thousands of YSR statues coming everywhere in the middle of the roads, because TDP is seen as BC party?

Why are the so-called SCs and Dalits are not turning against YSJ group on this trend? Is it because Dalits transformed into Xtians?
Who ever is doing this is to Keep the Kapu leaders in doc and is intrested in a Kapu vs Other castes cleavage.Kapus are quite infamous in the godavari and Krishna districtions for their friction with other castes (all of them).Another negative for the Kapus is they are infamous for Intra caste rivalry and feuds.The intrested parties wnt to utilise these feuds
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by johneeG »

RamaY wrote: Is it because Dalits transformed into Xtians?
Saar,
perhaps the groups want people to believe that dalits are Xtians or ally with Xtians. I think EJs have been targeting all communities in various ways. Dalits are as much Hindus as others. One needs to be careful lest bheda(divide and rule) will make all Hindu communities vulnerable. Infact, the bane of Hindu society has been intra-religious suspicions and competitions (which are amplified by various groups in various ways).

It seems Dalits, who have converted, did not find any improvement in their social stature. Since there is no acknowledgement of any discrimination in other religions, the discrimination can be worser than Hinduism(where there has been many efforts to stop intentional/un-intentional discrimination).

One fact needs to be respected that Hindus(including Dalits) have lived under the rule of other religions(who were keen to annihilate the Hinduism) for several centuries, and yet have not yielded. That is a testimony to the commitment of the people. Of course, there are always bad apples.

Anyway, it would be short-sighted for people to think that missionaries are after only one community. All the communities are being targeted by all means.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

Present caste clash drama started with removal of Shakar Rao minister from SC community from the cabinet after he continuously alleged all kinds of things on his ministirial collegues and also on the CM. At the same time 2 people of Kapu community were inducted into cabinet as per the agreement with Chiranjivis Prajarajyam Party. This created heart burn in congress. The SC MP from Godavari district was quite critical of the reduction of the representation of SC's in the cabinet. Immediately there was deciration Ambedkar statues near Amalapuram and it seems that the same is done by Kapu leaders of Congress. So basically Congress internal fights for minister posts converted into caste war.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

johneeG gaaru

My understanding was Dr. BR is the icon of all BCs and STs.

I wonder why the destruction of only his statues is happening when CBN's statement was about mushrooming of YSR status. This statue phenomenon started with Ranga, the kapu leader from Vijayawada.

Soon instead of Gandhi, Nehru, Bose statues that i used to see in my childhood, every village will have Ranga, NTR and YSR statues.

We invent new icons all the time :)
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

Correction. Dr B.R. Ambedkar is an icon for all Indians. It was his extensive legal acumen that India has such a good Constitution.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

There is no doubt he is a great man. But do we know the names of other members of the drafting comittee. NO. His name is being brought forward due to identity and emotional politics. Indian Constitution was basically Governament of India Act 1935 with cut and paste from various other constitutions of that time. It is not really suitable to Indian national conditions. Take for example the village level administration. Nothing effective was there in the 1951 document. Few fearful people and remaining brown Sahebs in the assembly never allowed many thing required and manything Indian in our consitution. Unfortunately Ambedkar is also part of that process. The very fact that we needed regular ammendments for the consitution is evident of the serious short falls in the consutituion. How come we became socialist in a democracy and how come we do not even have a right to personal property ( Yes we not have a right to own a house as per the Indian Constitution now) is a mark of very very bad effort by him and others.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by johneeG »

ramana wrote:Dr B.R. Ambedkar is an icon for all Indians.
Exactly. 100% correct.
ramana wrote: It was his extensive legal acumen that India has such a good Constitution.
Well, goodness of constitution is debatable. It has its flaws. The biggest flaw is, as Narayana Rao garu has said, it was not in complete sync with Indian needs, values and beliefs. But it has its positives too. The biggest positive, IMHO, being its intent to give power to people to better their lives.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by brihaspati »

OT perhaps, but the Constitution was not meant to give power to the people. It built in checks and balances to see to it that people directly had lesser impact on the day to day running of the state. In fact, to be fair, most constitutions are about creating a false sense of participation in the people - while carefully preserving the state apparatus for exclusive manipulation by those already entrenched in power. This is about overt legitimization and not people's participation.

Indian constitution in particular carries the stamp of the immense anxiety of special identity claimants who tried to ensure protection of special identity groups - that woudl in turn be connected to their private sense of power and dominance.

As of now, we have little accountability from the rashtryia apparatus, and instruments of public coercion. Judiciary, or police, for example - who practically behave like super-humans far above the people. If Baba saheb is to be the largets creditor for this constitution, then he should also be held responsible for what it has been used for.

By the way, he was in constant friction over the framing of laws and the constitution - with the rest of the congrez brigade. He had to resign from his post after all and JLN accepted his resignation. There were always accusations from the beginning - that the obsessive focus of onlee reforming the "Hindu" came out of Baba saheb's keenness to get back at the system he thought as his personal enemy, and while he wanted to make it universal for all communities - JLN specifically zeroed in on his "hindu" reform component onlee- while ignoring or preventing the demand for reform on the Muslim or the Christian. So Baba saheb's personal crusade against a particular perception of a particular community served another purpose of another leader inclined to dilute or delegitimize this particular community while preserving and enhancing the other religious community's identity politics. After this purpose was served - so that all the anger of the opposition fell on Baba saheb, he was conveniently dropped.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by brihaspati »

Keeping Baba saheb at his side would be important - at least to make a political statement of show - for the trend had already been clear, that in elections the "dalit" components were cutting into congrez votes, wherever the special constituencies were allowed by the Brits prior to independence. In the first Republican elections, the dual constituency system had been allowed where scheduled seats were in parallel with the general category. In a significant number of such seats the congrez candidates lost out. Hence the system was abolished pronto for the next round.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by RamaY »

Thanks Bji. You presented the points that were lingering in my mind, but didn't become clear thoughts yet.

W.r.t AP politics this is an interesting trend. The statues of 'perceived' icons/thought leaders are being desecrated by the opponent groups.Recent desecration of Sri Krishna Devaraya's statue by T-Vadis is a point in case.

The recent spat started with CBN's statement that the thousands of YSR statues being setup by YSJagan's party in every village are disturbing his earlier plan to create wide roads even in villages (I would credit CBN for the road widening project he started all over AP - even at the village level) and that if he comes to power he is going to remove all statues that are in the middle of the roads disturbing traffic.

This was opposed by YSR Congress (naturally) and by INC (there are few RG/IG statues too) ;)

In return we are seeing the desecration of BR Ambedkar's statues. I am trying to read the tea leaves :)
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

But if the root cause is takleef at CBN why desecrate Ambedkar statues? Something else could be there.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Virupaksha »

ramana wrote:But if the root cause is takleef at CBN why desecrate Ambedkar statues? Something else could be there.
There is a growing polarization between malas and madigas among dalits. Shankar rao's dismissal didnt help matters. Ambedkar is one icon whom both of the groups "cherish". So it could be false thunder to get them both on line.

Also note that ranga (kapus) statues are also being destroyed. This is so as to get the kapus to unite and thus back congress completely.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by devesh »

INC is returning to old tactics. before 90's, these gimmicks were regular for INC. in TDP era from 90's to 2004, those tactics were not on full display. but now that INC is in power and it has to keep it, we are seeing the old play books being dusted clean and used.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

Werent those statutes installed by NTR to commemorate icons just like DMK had similar statues at Marina Beach?
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

That is what i meant by few fearful people. Very few in 1947-51 believed that we survive as a nation. Most are certainly worried. their worries etc are reflected in the Constition. Now allowing political participation at village level and not giving greater powers to states, appeasement of minorities by special rights etc are reflection of the said fears and lack of confidence. We could have fixed some serious mistakes later on. But more reforms in elections, political set up are to take place.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by svinayak »

Narayana Rao wrote: Now allowing political participation at village level and not giving greater powers to states, appeasement of minorities by special rights etc are reflection of the said fears and lack of confidence. .
This is the stage when the corporate powers are taking over and they want to create a image based election system. Here the corporate dollars will control the outcome of the election.

This fears and lack of confidence is due to power brokers who came in due to not being part of the society.
They want authority without being part of the system.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

A P Home Secy arrested in EMAAR properties scam.

LINK
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

Corruption in AP reached unpresidented levels under YSR. He and his gang looted the state and allowed even one else also do the same provided he gets his share. People were kept in good mood by "welfare Schemes" As Deveshji told above congress now back to its dirty tricks in AP - Caste wars, Communal reservations, division of anti congress votes by front parties like TRS, Jagan criminal gang etc and "garibi Hatavo" welfare mafia set up. With this they want to win 2014.

KCR who was under their control from the start is now made to keep quite. No major agitation is planned as there were exams ( in March) So T agitation leadership is effectively brought with Polavaram Tenders ( which later seems to be concelled) Allegations that he sold the agitation for Polavaram Tenders had discredited KCR. Now there seems to serious wisporing compaigne that he is a drunk etc and only interested in colletions in the name of agitation etc are being done by Congress people. BJP is doing Telangana pooru etc. But its is a small force in AP and hardly getting any covarage in TV media at least.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

One more stupid policy statement by Chidu on 1st Feb - http://www.rediff.com/news/report/telan ... 120201.htm - I wonder if there is any one else more damaging for teh political interests of Congress than Chidu - May be diggi Raja
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by devesh »

http://zeenews.india.com/news/andhra-pr ... 55934.html

TRS on shaky ground ahead of bypolls
BJP will obviously eat into TRS' vote bank by playing the 'Telangana sentiment' card and that is what both Congress and Telugu Desam Party want to happen.

interesting. once again, maybe TDP and INC are being too clever. just like their blunders created KCR and his "movement", so will their tacit support of BJP. of course, KCR's nonsense has been detrimental and has been monumentally incapable of actually doing some good for Telangana. but if TDP and INC do encourage the seeds to be sown for BJP, do they realize what could eventually happen?!

I am happy. as the saying goes, the established order, when its end is near, decides to do things that only accelerate and set in stone their downfall. Vinasha kala vipareeta buddhi!

the old patterns of Indian history repeat all over again. the established factions are finding it temporarily beneficial to prop up a new entrant. time will tell what happens.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

Kishan Reddy is also doing yathra in Telangana and BJP can take benifit of the sentiment. They have some good organisational set up in T areas and may take advocate to the max. But they should not ally themselves with TRS thuse lose their individual positives. Congress, of course will try not conducting elections till they see some advantage to them. TDP and Congress think that TRS is the main threat. So now they are trying to bring it down. We now see no TRS leaders in the morning TV programmes etc and KCR/Harish etc are now supporting the Junior Docters agitation. KCR promissed agitation path after Jan 15th but doing nothing. Kodanda Ram(i Reddy) also keepong quite with later saying they will do something after examinations to childeren( will be from March and go up to June). As of today, INC is gone case in 2014 elections as for as AP is concerned. That is the best thing that would have happend to the nation. People in AP shall learn not to trust leaders propagating sub regional feelings(TRS), Movie stars (Chiru and PRP). Of course they already do not trust Congress and TDP but will select TDP as a lessor evil any day.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Muppalla »

the max that TRS can get is 50 in T. 25 seats for TDP is what people are giving and especially in HYD region. 15 goes to MIM. Rest 27 are split between INC and others.

In SA region INC and Jagan will split the INC voteshare. It is advantage TDP overall irrespective of news spin.

Fixing Jagan is impossible. Another approver in EMAAR will engulf every INC top honcho.

As time progresses the credibility of both Jagan and TRS will come down which is advantage TDP. TRS has to revive T movement in a big way and Jagan has to become more credible alternative. Two years is a long way to go. The max that congress is trying is to stay relevant in the state.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by devesh »

50 for TRS itself might be too big a figure. several different headwinds might be blowing in Telangana. it will be hard to tell if anyone can get a clear mandate. it might be a divided house between TDP, INC, and TRS, with BJP making some inroads, albeit not enough to win huge number of seats, but enough to set the stage for long term presence.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

BJP has squandered their chances in AP when they are in power in Delhi making no efforts to consolidate their wins. CBN also payed a role in that of course. As things stand today there is on chance for congress. Revival of Telangana agitation by TRS is one thing to watch out. TRS now has to contend with aggressive TDP,not so helpful Congress and naxal front organizations, peoples cynicism etc. KCR has no habit of building organization etc. Media may not be a force multiplier this time around. I am will be surprised if he along can lanch a major agitation now. We have wait and seen.

In the meanwhile IAS Officers association launched a fresh front on the CBI alleging that CBI is not investigating the political leaders properly.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by arunsrinivasan »

Didn't find an Andhra specific thread so posting here. Andhra Jyothy seems to have carried a series of articles on Religious Conversions by EJ's
http://centreright.in/2011/12/andhra-jy ... 0HNKvXOpZg

I don't follow Telugu so wanted to ask fellow members here. How big was the coverage on Andhra Jyothy any impact/repercussions?
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by arunsrinivasan »

No comments on the Andhra Jyothy article? I would think this is quite significant to actually have a mainstream newspaper talk about coerced/forced conversions so openly?
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by devesh »

it is depressing saar! I've read that article before. can't get myself to comment on it. but it is definitely good that a mainstream newspaper is carrying this kind of stuff. definitely better than the english media. but still depressing and disheartening. :(
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by arunsrinivasan »

devesh wrote:it is depressing saar! I've read that article before. can't get myself to comment on it. but it is definitely good that a mainstream newspaper is carrying this kind of stuff. definitely better than the english media. but still depressing and disheartening. :(
Yes it is depressing, but I am glad that it's out in the open and from a mainstream source rather than VHP/RSS. I am surprised parties like the TDP/BJP etc have been silent about it. Hindus being converted threatens not just BJP but also TDP and to some extent Congress also. Does TDP think the newly converted Christians will vote for them or YSR Congress?
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by koti »

arunsrinivasan wrote:Didn't find an Andhra specific thread so posting here. Andhra Jyothy seems to have carried a series of articles on Religious Conversions by EJ's
http://centreright.in/2011/12/andhra-jy ... 0HNKvXOpZg

I don't follow Telugu so wanted to ask fellow members here. How big was the coverage on Andhra Jyothy any impact/repercussions?
It ruffled some feathers.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by koti »

arunsrinivasan wrote:
devesh wrote:it is depressing saar! I've read that article before. can't get myself to comment on it. but it is definitely good that a mainstream newspaper is carrying this kind of stuff. definitely better than the english media. but still depressing and disheartening. :(
Yes it is depressing, but I am glad that it's out in the open and from a mainstream source rather than VHP/RSS. I am surprised parties like the TDP/BJP etc have been silent about it. Hindus being converted threatens not just BJP but also TDP and to some extent Congress also. Does TDP think the newly converted Christians will vote for them or YSR Congress?
It is definitely YSR or Jagan now.
Things have gone so far that YSR was compared to the Saviour in some Churches.
You can see why Anil Kumar was chosen to his post while YSR was alive.

This is OT here. Maybe this should be into some other thread.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by devesh »

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels ... 9s-son-423


I am also an Indian: Haimendorf’s son
Nicholas Haimendorf, son of famous anthropologist Christopher Von-Furer Haimendorf, said that in a sense, he is an Indian as he was born in Secunderabad and brought up here till he was two years old.

He said that he too had an emotional attachment with Andhra Pradesh and Adivasis like his parents. He said that he was named after Atram Lachu Patel, who was then headman of Marlavai village and gave accommodation to his parents.

Nicholas Haimendorf said that he had noticed changes in Adivasi gudems and observed that solid houses with concrete have come up in Marlavai and a tank outside the village.

He said that there were only houses made of bamboo, wood and mud when he visited the village in 1987 to bury his mother’s ashes. Speaking to this newspaper, Nicholas who was in Marlavai to bury his father’s ashes, said that one should respect local customs and traditions of a particular area or place, irrespective of religion, and added that religion should be formalised as it was a way of serving God.

“I have performed all Gond rituals and followed their traditions and customs while bringing the ashes of my father, though I am a Christian,” he observed.

He observed that family relations in terms of sharing, social values and children taking care of their elders, were much stronger here than in the West and added that government, not children, was taking care of aged persons in England.

He said that he was not able to say when he could again visit Adilabad as it was an expensive and long journey from London.

He was able to come now, because he and his wife Sarah had retired recently and their children were grown up.

there is some very deep interest in this region. we need to connect the data points. especially the peculiar trend of these "western scholars/experts" showering their verbal riches on "Deccan"/"Hyderabad"/"Telangana".
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

Haimendorf was a legenddary scholar of the Gonds of Deccan. He wrote many books on them.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by gunjur »

With congress doing badly in UP, punjab, goa elections, is it curtains for telangana(atleast for now) as they would hesitate to change any status quo???
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Dasari »

Is there any lesson here? Mayawati hurriedly announced the division of UP and passed the resolution in the assembly with the sole purpose of getting advantage in the elections. Although I believe that she lost the elections for self centric grandiose, it is good to see that at least the people of UP didn't allow adding of another lever into the mix of divide and conquer politics.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

division lobby received a small blow only. It was already sold by KCR.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by ramana »

I guess our folks dont care about common people's woes.

Hindu reports price rise in all agricultural products impacting common kitchens.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyd ... epage=true
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by a_bharat »

Gunjur wrote:With congress doing badly in UP, punjab, goa elections, is it curtains for telangana(atleast for now) as they would hesitate to change any status quo???
One would want to change status quo if it is not in his favour. So the question to ask is if the status quo in AP is in Congress' favour.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by devesh »

http://www.jstor.org.libdb.njit.edu:888 ... owFullText

Caste and the Andhra Communists


a very interesting article on JSTOR. it talks about the early Communist movement and the relative success of Andhra Communists in the 1940's and '50s. also, some details on the various combinations of political groups and how the Communists were adept in exploiting these differences in the Congress, to come to power.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by Yagnasri »

Election time in AP. Seems Jagan is spending like anything in Kovur (100 Cr as per one allegation of TDP - Seems to be too much) and TRS regularly targeting CBN and TDP as per the plan of INC. We need to see how this drama is unfold and how people will vote.
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Re: Telangana Monitor

Post by vijayk »

There are some reports that people are not coming to the meeting of moron Jagan. May be the people are slowly realizing the fraud what he is.
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