Telangana Monitor

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Dec 2009 00:04

Manny wrote:When India decided on States based on languages, Bangalore and Trivandrum came under Tamilnadu. Since Karnataka and Kerala was left with no big cities, Tamilnadu had to give up Bangalore to Karnataka and Trivandrum to Kerala and to compensate Tamilnadu, A good portion of South Andhra was given to Tamilnadu.

er, please read up on your history. This is patently false. Bengaluru was founded by Kempe Gowda. It was later ruled by Tipu Sultan and Mysore wodeyars. The large number of tamils is due to the large number of PSUs which were started in Bangalore. Even today, the major tamil population is to the north, and closer to these PSUs. It is still less than the kannadiga population though. Old Bangalore was mainly KR Market area to Gandhi Bazaar area. If you speak to old timers in Bangalore, they will tell you more about it. All these regions were kannadiga majority areas. All towns/villages around Bangalore too had kannada names. I don't know where you got the impression that Bangalore was a tamil majority area and it was handed to Karnataka just because it had no big town!!! In fact, Mysore was a big city earlier. The establishment of major industries in Bangalore post-independence made it bigger city than Mysore.

Tamils in karnataka is pretty old news. The followers of Ramanujacharya came to mysore kingdom to escape prosecution in their state. Melkote is where Ramanujacharya settled and is a popular piligrimage place. And there are plenty of Iyengars who have made a name for themselves in Karnataka. Masti Venkatesh Iyengar won Jnanapita award for his kannada novel.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Dec 2009 00:10

Thanks for the scharadenfeude post for its very revealing the mindset of TN elite even when they are located far away from Madras.

P Chidambaram is the guy who set off this bomb to stunt Andhra Pradesh. It was he who made that mid-night announcement. And its his Secy that announced that Hyderabad will be capital of Telangana and retracted it later. It also shows why CM Rosiah said that its Center that announced the decision. Yes he gives the impression of being a ineffective CM but don't forget he has 4 decades of field experience.

PC is at core a very selfish man. He looted Indian Bank and pretends to be so holy and humble with his fake traditional clothes. His motive was to cut AP to size and divert investments to TN and revive INC prospects there. All those Rahul Gandhi visits make sense as DMK is in transition and JJ is a spent force.

Its all a INC plot with benefits every where while dividing the Telugus who are emotional.- Act first and think later.

And this is known in Hyderabad. Telugus once they think it over will settle down.

All strawmen were posted and are getting attacked while the real culprit is hiding from limelight. As Home Minsiter he has access to records since Independence and hatched this plot.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Dec 2009 00:12

there was a report by a member.

This thread is bound to lead to flame wars. I would recommend closing this divisive thread, as it can turn nasty later on.

the apprehension is valid but if it happens that will be unfortunate. this is a worthy topic that needs to be discussed. so fellow BRFites, please exercise self-restraint.
in case of any flaming or disruption there will be NO hesitancy in taking severe steps against the perpetrators.
regards,
Rahul.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Dec 2009 00:14

X-post...
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 74#p787574

There wont be any re-drawing for the ramifications are too much.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 12 Dec 2009 00:23

Mayawati for trifurcation of Uttar Pradesh
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 327462.cms

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 12 Dec 2009 00:23

ok this is the origial thread where discussions seem to be happening !!!. JJ i would not right her away outrightly. MK would have plans for madurai and Chennai between Stalin and MR ala in between comes kani and KMrn ( who is still an outsider ) . MK would want something for each of them and ensure that his genes are not wiped out. Congress would not want to do this at this stage. next state election would be avital factor

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 12 Dec 2009 00:27

shravan wrote:Uddhav demands Belgaum, border areas for Maharashtra

Opposing demand for a separate state of Vidarbha, Shiv Sena executive president Uddhav Thackeray said Maharashtra should get Marathi-speaking areas of Belgaum and adjoining areas in Karnataka.

he does not want but Mr pawar does

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 00:28

ramana wrote:X-post...
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 74#p787574

There wont be any re-drawing for the ramifications are too much.

It was neighbour's envy and owner's pride. The envy took over and the pride is hurt.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 12 Dec 2009 00:30

Why not? But not necessarily division needs to happen for the sake of family!!!
This brings all regionalisms down in India!! possibly a kind of regional development. But I am also excited a bit with a hope that it works for people's development sake rather than for some to get into power which is not possible otherwise!!!

This decentralisation helps to strengthen India for a long run! But not necessarily to centralise the power to the centre! But there should be a bit more autonomy for the states in running the local economy as people really are not happy if development is not faily distributed across the regions whatever reasons one may give!

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 12 Dec 2009 00:31

There are so many alarmists here. The BBC was reporting it, almost as a sepratist movement. TSP will certainly be getting their hopes higher.

It is nothing of the sort. People are simply fed up with the distance to power. They feel they are so far away from the politicians that they have no say. And I do support them. UP is a state with over 150 million people. It is the same population as UK, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Ireland combined. In almostg all large states there are huge large areas that are totally neglected. There are areas with several tens of millions, without a proper hospital, univerisity or train station.

I think the whole structure of states need to be re-evaluated. Any state capital should not be further then 150-300 km from the border.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 12 Dec 2009 00:31

well looks like across the spectrum every body wants a division

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Dec 2009 00:33

>>Thanks for the scharadenfeude post for its very revealing the mindset of TN elite even when they are located far away from Madras.
Ramana garu: Which post are you referring ?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 00:38

Rishirishi wrote:There are so many alarmists here. The BBC was reporting it, almost as a sepratist movement. TSP will certainly be getting their hopes higher.

It is nothing of the sort. People are simply fed up with the distance to power. They feel they are so far away from the politicians that they have no say. And I do support them. UP is a state with over 150 million people. It is the same population as UK, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Ireland combined. In almostg all large states there are huge large areas that are totally neglected. There are areas with several tens of millions, without a proper hospital, univerisity or train station.

I think the whole structure of states need to be re-evaluated. Any state capital should not be further then 150-300 km from the border.

Hyderabad is in Telengana so your logic doesn't apply to AP. In fact other areas don't mind Hyderbad being Capitol.
In AP people brought down politicians to resign. The problem is Center and central politicians sitting pretty in Delhi not local politicians.

Each region has different issues so Standard template and solutions you're trying to draw can't be applied everywhere.

Telugus want to expand their pie. That is Takleef for the Center and DMK/Chidambaram
Center wants to cut Telugus. That is Takleef for Telugus.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 12 Dec 2009 00:42

but would not a referrundum be helpful in these case. Constituional experts pls comment

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 12 Dec 2009 00:42

http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/ ... nataka.htm

Now, Shiv Sena wants parts of Karnataka

Opposing the demand for a separate state of Vidarbha, Shiv Sena [ Images ] executive president Uddhav Thackeray [ Images ] on Friday said Maharashtra [ Images ] should get Marathi-speaking areas of Belgaum and adjoining areas in Karnataka [ Images ].

"The government should remove the injustice done to Maharashtra by giving it Belgaum-Karwar areas where the Marathi-speaking populace is being oppressed," Uddhav said in a statement.

"As long as the Shiv Sena is there, no one will be allowed to divide Maharashtra," Uddhav said while speaking on the demand for a separate Vidarbha, which has brought to the fore differences in the Opposition Shiv Sena- Bharatiya Janata Party [ Images ] alliance.

While state BJP leaders have rallied for the fulfillment of the long-pending demand for a separate Vidarbha, Sena has come out vehemently against splitting Maharashtra.

The ties between the saffron partners have already under strain, as the Sena leaders believe that the BJP in trying to bring Raj Thackeray-led Maharashtra Navnirman Sena under the opposition umbrella.

Manny · Post by **Manny** » 12 Dec 2009 00:44

Ananya wrote:but would not a referrundum be helpful in these case. Constituional experts pls comment

Referrundum = "Pure Democracy" = 2 Fox and a hen deciding whats for dinner!

Thats what is happening in Switzerland. A referendum decided more than 4 Minerates is 1 too many!

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 00:44

Rishirishi wrote:There are so many alarmists here. The BBC was reporting it, almost as a sepratist movement. TSP will certainly be getting their hopes higher.

It is nothing of the sort. People are simply fed up with the distance to power. They feel they are so far away from the politicians that they have no say. And I do support them. UP is a state with over 150 million people. It is the same population as UK, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark and Ireland combined. In almostg all large states there are huge large areas that are totally neglected. There are areas with several tens of millions, without a proper hospital, univerisity or train station.

I think the whole structure of states need to be re-evaluated. Any state capital should not be further then 150-300 km from the border.

Then first divide UP before touching other states. Or do it with a states re-organization commission. The impression that is coming here is there is a geographical core of India and that is UP. The time is up and hence they want to devide that state. The next largest block in India is Telugu speaking block. It is like let us divide that before the core is devided.

See the trend here - Every regional satrap wants their adjacent state devided while they do not want to do the same to their own state.
BT and Sharad Pawar supports Telangana but vehmently opposes Vidharbha. Long time ago Karunanidhi supoted Telangana. Laloo supports Telangana and not another split of Bihar.

Mulayam is the only guy who sensed that it will come on him and he today opposed Telangana.

A unified progressive Telugu land (there was no linguistic or divisive bs from here) is percieved as a threat from many quarters in the Indian core and hence the fast forward decision here.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 12 Dec 2009 00:45

Manny wrote:http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/ ... nataka.htm

Now, Shiv Sena wants parts of Karnataka

"As long as the Shiv Sena is there, no one will be allowed to divide Maharashtra," Uddhav said while speaking on the demand for a separate Vidarbha, which has brought to the fore differences in the Opposition Shiv Sena- Bharatiya Janata Party [ Images ] alliance.

While state BJP leaders have rallied for the fulfillment of the long-pending demand for a separate Vidarbha, Sena has come out vehemently against splitting Maharashtra.

The ties between the saffron partners have already under strain, as the Sena leaders believe that the BJP in trying to bring Raj Thackeray-led Maharashtra Navnirman Sena under the opposition umbrella.

but this would depend on how many SS mla/mps are from Vidharbha, people in Bombay do not speak for people of nagpur. thats is the whole issue of the circus right !!!!

munna · Post by **munna** » 12 Dec 2009 00:50

Muppalla wrote:A unified progressive Telugu land (there was no linguistic or divisive bs from here) is percieved as a threat from many quarters in the Indian core and hence the fast forward decision here.

Mupallaji it would be really interesting and enlightening to know as to who is threatened by AP core and in what ways? I voice this genuine request to be able to connect the dots and understand the unique nature of AP partition as claimed by many esteemed and senior posters here.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 01:02

munnaji - I will try to write after little cooling down here.

. I am afraid that I will be ruffling a lot of tempers here. However, you already got the messages in some of the above posts here.

Meanwhile there are few attitudes that needs analysis starting from India's independence which I beleive are linked to my statement above.

1) Kashmir Pandits supporting Art 370 initially for some grand reasons before realizing that shit falls on them. JLN was also party to that.
2) JLN - not allowing all Telugu areas to be part of AP which includes several districts from adjacent states including Madras city. It is not just because of some influential persons influencing him. It is becasue AP would have become larger than UP. Leadership issues would have been a lot different if the core came from the percieved geographical pheriphery.

Added later:
Analyze the influence of AP politics on the center since the rise of TDP and also when INC (Gandhis losing steam) started coming down. TDP was the principle opposition party in 1985. When Rajiv died it was PVNR becoming PM. The Gandhis hate that single event till date. CBN the primary stabilizer of NDA. The fall of CBN and TDP is the real reason for a comfortable UPA at the center. This larger Telugu block is always a pain in the neck for INC after the launch of TDP.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Dec 2009 01:02

munna wrote:
Muppalla wrote:A unified progressive Telugu land (there was no linguistic or divisive bs from here) is percieved as a threat from many quarters in the Indian core and hence the fast forward decision here.
Mupallaji it would be really interesting and enlightening to know as to who is threatened by AP core and in what ways? I voice this genuine request to be able to connect the dots and understand the unique nature of AP partition as claimed by many esteemed and senior posters here.

I have the same question. I haven't seen/read anywhere about anyone being threatened by Telugus/unified Telugu land. In fact, the clamor for dividing AP came from within AP itself.

I too am interested in knowing who in India considers unified AP or telugus as a threat. Any supporting links is welcome too

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 12 Dec 2009 01:09

Rishirishi wrote: People are simply fed up with the distance to power.

I can see that to be the case with a lot of historical agitations, but not Telangana. Various movements owing to "non-locals" neglecting the locals have resulted in states that we now see.

But, in this case, if anybody could use that line of reasoning, it has to be other areas of Andhra Pradesh, from where you need to travel in train for 15/16 hours to reach Hyderabad. They don't mind, because they have their own local power centers that forms their center of gravity (Vizag, Vijayawada etc). Infact, the last CM from Andhra was NTR in 1989 (he was in power only briefly in 1995).

Rishirishi wrote:They feel they are so far away from the politicians that they have no say. And I do support them.

Now, you are getting somewhere. The motivations could be as below.

Cynical 1: Telangana feels that what is theirs geographically is being enjoyed by others, failing to appreciate that "the others" played a overwhelming role in taking Hyd to where it is.

Cynical 2: KSR cannot in his life become CM (Guard of the Vault) of AP. So, he cannot in any reasonalbe way exploit Hyd's assets like CBN did or the Reddy's have specialized, even though it is in "Telangana". Thats got to hurt!

As for the mood of the people, what is needed is to NOT split it into smaller pieces and giving them away on the streets.

What is needed it accountability from Politicians (yup.. never gonna happen) and more importantly building other local money makers (feasible). Vizag and Vijayawada play that role in Andhra, where local politicians making a killing in various schemes and land grabbings. But there is not one city besides Hyderabad in the whole of Telangana that can be a local money maker. Telangana needs to be viened away from looking at Hyderabad for that role.

IOW, capital will be left alone if each of the sub group politicians have their "own" a local money maker or playground (Real Estate/Industries/Businesses etc).

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 01:10

RaviBg wrote: I have the same question. I haven't seen/read anywhere about anyone being threatened by Telugus/unified Telugu land. In fact, the clamor for dividing AP came from within AP itself.
I too am interested in knowing who in India considers unified AP or telugus as a threat. Any supporting links is welcome too

Clamors are there everywhere in India. But the sequence and timing is what needs to be analyzed.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 12 Dec 2009 01:18

Krishna_V wrote:If at all AP is divided and hyderabad goes to telangana then there are more chances that andhra and rayalaseema will split. unless tirupathi is made capital of the new andhra state. AP is one of the developing states in the country and could go back 15years in development if the the state splits

telangana is asking two things, water for irrigation and jobs for locals

there are various irrigation projects in T-region which are proposed and never started or started but delayed indefinately. If not all atleast few of these projects should be fast tracked and provide jobs for locals. i think this is one of the solutions i can think of without dividing the state

I don't know how you think that making Tirupati as capital will stop further split. Any capital that is done for political reasons but not based on its true merit is untenable. I don't think rest of andhra accepts any city other than Vizag or Viajayawada.

As far as irrigation projects for Telangana are concerned, it is myth. Most of the Telangana lands are 300-500mts higher than the crest of Godavari. We need massive lift irrigation systems which are not economically feasible. The only potential point for dam on Godavari is after confluence of Pranahita and Indravati. That place is Polavarm. Unfortunately this also benefits mostly downstream districts of East Godavari and Visakhapatnam.

I selected this hydel map for easy clarity. Goadvari is the top river and Krishna is the middle one. The two tributaries joining Godavari from Chatishgarh (and M) are Pranhita and Indravati. This is where Goadavari picks up volume of flow. The tributary further downstream (sileru/donkarayi) is sabari.

The area sandwitched between both rivers is Telanagana on a plateau.

Here is physical map of AP with dark green elevation at 0 – 150 m, light green 150-300m and yellow 300-600m that gives some understanding of physical topology of AP state.

munna · Post by **munna** » 12 Dec 2009 01:19

Muppalla wrote:Added later:
Analyze the influence of AP politics on the center since the rise of TDP and also when INC (Gandhis losing steam) started coming down. TDP was the principle opposition party in 1985. When Rajiv died it was PVNR becoming PM. The Gandhis hate that single event till date. CBN the primary stabilizer of NDA. The fall of CBN and TDP is the real reason for a comfortable UPA at the center. This larger Telugu block is always a pain in the neck for INC after the launch of TDP.

I concur and it makes some sense at a level. So if I am picking up the correct radar signals then this is a move to nip any nascent challenge to the Delhi royals by a joint Telugu leadership of TDP/Jagan/PRP. Interesting very interesting! Knowing INC very well, I concur that they do have the strategic brains and analysts to plan that far in advance. But the only question that remains now is what was the immediate threat that caused sudden panic within Delhi ranks? Jagan and YSR camp is rooted in EJ land and if he is a threat to Delhi then is Delhi against EJs or external forces(my CT cap on)? Or is it that there is a move to systematically weaken all large states including UP, AP, WB and Maharashtra to further strengthen the cntre?

If the reasons are latter then I am not worried but if former then . . . . .(silence)

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 12 Dec 2009 01:22

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Dec 2009 01:26

Muppalla garu: Please add me to the list of people wanting to know the answer. You are making it like Telugu people vs Rest of India. People have to realize how we have a rich, vibrant and shared history. Prince and Princesses married among the dynasties. People traded and moved along the regions eking out their living.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 01:28

RaviBg wrote:
munna wrote:[quote="Muppalla"A unified progressive Telugu land (there was no linguistic or divisive bs from here) is percieved as a threat from many quarters in the Indian core and hence the fast forward decision here./quote]
Mupallaji it would be really interesting and enlightening to know as to who is threatened by AP core and in what ways? I voice this genuine request to be able to connect the dots and understand the unique nature of AP partition as claimed by many esteemed and senior posters here.
I have the same question. I haven't seen/read anywhere about anyone being threatened by Telugus/unified Telugu land. In fact, the clamor for dividing AP came from within AP itself.

I too am interested in knowing who in India considers unified AP or telugus as a threat. Any supporting links is welcome too

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

You may not read that Telengana people, not poltical elites, were enthusiastic to join other Telugus. That sense of Telugus was slowly brain-washed away from Telengana people.

Telengana political elites that were Dhimmified felt victimized under Nizams were left clueless as to who to blame once Nizams were gone. They then found or brainwashed to find, non-Telengana Telugus as source of their victimization. This became political exploitation point.

Congress prodded and exploited the Telengana victimization sentiment for various political advantages and continue to use for political experimentation.

Naxalites used that sense of victimization and continue to encourage that sense to propagate their ideology even after Nizams were gone.

Telenganas own leaders continue to exploit that Takleef to outrule other AP leaders and get benefit from Telenagana packages given under various governments.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Dec 2009 01:37

from my limited understanding it seems KCR wants his own state to lord over than any legitimate case for division of AP. I for one am finding it a little difficult at the moment to envisage the grand plan behind it.

how much local support does KCR have really ? could someone answer ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Dec 2009 01:39

Elections wise he has close to zero support. He didn't even contest the Municipal elections for fear of losing. However he is a tool of others. Most likely he will die due to his many illnesses. However he isn't foolish to die for this cause.

munna · Post by **munna** » 12 Dec 2009 01:44

ShyamSP wrote: Telengana political elites that were Dhimmified felt victimized under Nizams were left clueless as to who to blame once Nizams were gone. They then found or brainwashed to find, non-Telengana Telugus as source of their victimization. This became political exploitation point.

Congress prodded and exploited the Telengana victimization sentiment for various political advantages and continue to use for political experimentation

While I agree with plausibility of one of the hypothesis that current partition of AP can be a result of the threat perceived by the Delhi durbar from unified Telugu plank but then how cum AP continued to vote and support INC (post 2004) even after the most severe insults were heaped on arguably the greatest Telugu political figure of India (Sh Pamulpati Venkata Narasimha Rao)? Or for that matter it was AP that got UPA to power twice!
Metaphorically speaking INC an be against us (AP) or with us (AP) but why is it appearing on both sides of the fence? So is it really a conspiracy or just an unfortunate coincidence of events?

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 12 Dec 2009 01:49

well it is a case of 'make hay while the sun shines' Delhi darbar wanted to cash in on the turn of events and looks like this has backfired.
but the bottom line seems to be everybody wants a division of some sort

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 01:52

SwamyG wrote:Muppalla garu: Please add me to the list of people wanting to know the answer. You are making it like Telugu people vs Rest of India. People have to realize how we have a rich, vibrant and shared history. Prince and Princesses married among the dynasties. People traded and moved along the regions eking out their living.

I did not in any sense made it as " Telugu people vs Rest of India."

It is for everyone to analyze and find the answer. Why is the world the regional lords like Sharad pawar, Karunanidhi, Laloo and BT supported Telangana while they vehemently want to save their state boundaries as is?

A request: Let us not bring BJP into the mix here as they are for smaller states as a principle even when they are just street kids.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 12 Dec 2009 01:57

The Telangana Game as Kuhn's Poker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a game of bluff involving two players, the first player has several optimal strategies to choose from.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T.C.A. Srinivasa-Raghavan

The Centre has surprised everyone with its startling new Telangana strategy. It has suddenly, and without any warning, conceded the demand for carving out the new state of Telangana from Andhra Pradesh. To understand what it is up to one must turn to game theory, which is the study of strategies in competitions.

The strategy adopted by the Centre — probably unwittingly — most closely approximates a game called Kuhn's Poker, attributed to Harold Kuhn, a Princeton mathematician and colleague of John Nash. Dr Kuhn is better known to economists as the co-author of the famous Karush-Kuhn-Tucker theorem in growth theory.

Kuhn's Poker is a zero-sum game in which all losses exactly equal all gains. Its essence is that in a game of bluff involving two players the first player has the advantage in that he has several optimal strategies to choose from. In contrast, the second player has just one strategy which, even when played, keeps the first player's losses down.

In the Telangana Game, the Centre, in a sense, is the first player because from the very beginning, it has been the first player.

In Kuhn's Poker there are only three cards. (Its variant is known in India as Teen Patti, which all of North India plays during the week before Diwali). In proper poker, there are five cards.

Raising the ante

The two players are dealt a card each. Now the first player has two options. He can either bet or pass. The Centre has chosen to bet, rather than pass as it has been doing for the last 60 years.

Now the second player, the TRS, has to bet or pass. It has chosen to bet by demanding Hyderabad and a time-bound programme for implementing statehood for Telangana.

This is because its only alternative was to demand a show (or call). If it had done that, the Centre would simply have set up a committee or commission and the pot would have gone to the Centre, as every time before.

The game has become interesting because each player has raised the ante. It is now the Centre turn to fold or call. If it folds, TRS wins. But if it raises the ante, TRS will have to fold or call. If it folds, the Centre wins, and there is no Telangana in our lifetimes. But if it raises the ante, as it seems to be doing, the whole sequence will be repeated again until one or the other is forced to call or ask for a show. That point is reached when one or the other players decides either that he or she has nothing to left to bet with or that the other player is bluffing.

The point about Kuhn's Poker is that the first player has more strategies to choose from than the second. In the Telangana Game, for example, the options before the TRS are very limited: violence and fast.

In contrast, if you take the Central and the State governments as being one player, between them they have many more strategies. Indeed, we have already seen some of these being revealed — for instance, consensus of all, resignations and their acceptance or not, procedure for making a new State, Hyderabad as a Union territory, and so on.

Blinking first

So what's the likely outcome? In the end it will come down to who can hold his nerve longer which, in turn, will depend on who has more options.

Here I would like to remind the Centre of a name it has probably forgotten – Darshan Singh Pheruman who fasted till he died for a political demand which was not conceded. On August 15, 1969 Darshan Singh, demanding that Chandigarh and some other areas also go to Punjab after the creation of Haryana in 1966, went on a fast unto death inside the Amritsar Jail. The Centre did not budge. On 27th October, 1969, he died.

And guess who the Prime Minister was then?

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/200 ... 310800.htm

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 01:59

munna wrote: While I agree with plausibility of one of the hypothesis that current partition of AP can be a result of the threat perceived by the Delhi durbar from unified Telugu plank but then how cum AP continued to vote and support INC (post 2004) even after the most severe insults were heaped on arguably the greatest Telugu political figure of India (Sh Pamulpati Venkata Narasimha Rao)? Or for that matter it was AP that got UPA to power twice!
Metaphorically speaking INC an be against us (AP) or with us (AP) but why is it appearing on both sides of the fence? So is it really a conspiracy or just an unfortunate coincidence of events?

Very interesting question. TDP though regional is not like DK parties and the Telugu pride is not similar one too. I wrote in several posts about this psyche in Language thread. For information purposes, TDP wanted at one point to rename itself as Bharatadesam party and not as All India Telugu Desam party.

INC was the principal opposition to TDP and the results alternate between the parties and you have to read just that much until this YSR cabal + resurgent Telangana sentiment came as a game changer.

After this split, the psyche will have definite changes.

munna · Post by **munna** » 12 Dec 2009 02:14

Muppalla wrote:INC was the principal opposition to TDP and the results alternate between the parties and you have to read just that much until this YSR cabal + resurgent Telangana sentiment came as a game changer.

After this split, the psyche will have definite changes.

But if this is the true INC stratagem then results will be slightly different. They will split the state and actually pitch communities within the rump states against each other to destroy any angst against the split. If I understand your point then all I can say is that voting INC twice into power was a metaphoric harakiri by the joint AP. You will have definitely have more of EJ against Communalists kind of BS and what not?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 12 Dec 2009 02:15

munna wrote:
ShyamSP wrote: Telengana political elites that were Dhimmified felt victimized under Nizams were left clueless as to who to blame once Nizams were gone. They then found or brainwashed to find, non-Telengana Telugus as source of their victimization. This became political exploitation point.

Congress prodded and exploited the Telengana victimization sentiment for various political advantages and continue to use for political experimentation
While I agree with plausibility of one of the hypothesis that current partition of AP can be a result of the threat perceived by the Delhi durbar from unified Telugu plank but then how cum AP continued to vote and support INC (post 2004) even after the most severe insults were heaped on arguably the greatest Telugu political figure of India (Sh Pamulpati Venkata Narasimha Rao)? Or for that matter it was AP that got UPA to power twice!
Metaphorically speaking INC an be against us (AP) or with us (AP) but why is it appearing on both sides of the fence? So is it really a conspiracy or just an unfortunate coincidence of events?

Correct to say post 1998 it was one of the finest political plays by YSR with Congress machinery against CBN. NTR shattered Telengana sentiments that were proped by Congress pre-TDP era. In fact, Telengana was loyal and long-term supporter of NTR and TDP even when other areas voted to Congress. It was to shatter TDP in Telengana YSR resurrected Telengana movement (by that time NTR was gone), which he was against but used for his political fortunes. Congress didn't have any shame in bait-and-switching on support to Telengana in multiple times. YSR had ability to both prop and crush.

Now he is no more. CBN who diluted TDP ideology in 2009 elections is powerless to overwhelm what Congress is doing currently.

yvijay · Post by **yvijay** » 12 Dec 2009 02:16

ShyamSP wrote:
You may not read that Telengana people, not poltical elites, were enthusiastic to join other Telugus. That sense of Telugus was slowly brain-washed away from Telengana people.

Telengana political elites that were Dhimmified felt victimized under Nizams were left clueless as to who to blame once Nizams were gone. They then found or brainwashed to find, non-Telengana Telugus as source of their victimization. This became political exploitation point.

Congress prodded and exploited the Telengana victimization sentiment for various political advantages and continue to use for political experimentation.

Communists used that sense of victimization and continue to encourage that sense to propagate their ideology even after Nizams were gone.

Telenganas own leaders continue to exploit that Takleef to outrule other AP leaders and get benefit from Telenagana packages given under various governments.

Please stop peddling this BS about Telengana people. I have had enough of this dhimmified, acting victimized, being lazy, don’t want to study lies and BS. They are as dhimmified and as lazy as rest of telugu people. They strive to educate their as hard as other people. As I said before, their misfortune was being under NIzam. So Andhra people had advantage over them at time of formation of state due to education under the british rule. The official language under Nizam was urdu. So this was what led to the creation GO 610 which infact was never implemented. The prosperity that we see in costal Andhra happened after the condtruction of Nagajuna sagar dam which led to huge increase in agriculture area and other agri related businesses. All the investement that is happenin in and around from other areas hprimarily happened only after 90’s IT boom. And that investement is theirs and nobody is going to confiscate them. And what telangana packages you are talking about that didn’t reach telangana people. I would definetly want to know about them not just talk but the funds.

As munna said, people talk about this telugu pride and that, but andhras themselves make fun of telangana dialect and accent. Boasting Andhra telugu is the only the pure one. People talking about telugu pride and wanting to have telugu medium are the first ones to send their kids to the English medium schools.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 02:24

yvijay wrote:The prosperity that we see in costal Andhra happened after the condtruction of Nagajuna sagar dam which led to huge increase in agriculture area and other agri related businesses.

This can't be true. One dam can create some agriculture in few districts. Krishna and Godavari rivers are merging into seat in Krishna and Godavari districts. The river-fed agriculture is there from times immemorial. Nagarjuna sagar did help portions of Guntur and Prakasam districts.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 12 Dec 2009 02:32

munna wrote:But if this is the true INC stratagem then results will be slightly different. They will split the state and actually pitch communities within the rump states against each other to destroy any angst against the split. If I understand your point then all I can say is that voting INC twice into power was a metaphoric harakiri by the joint AP. You will have definitely have more of EJ against Communalists kind of BS and what not?

INC checkmated CBN after 2004 and split of TDP votes in the form of Velamas(TRS) and later Kapus (PRP) while having solid EJ votes in its kit brought them to power twice. Politics are alway local and they cannot think so strategically when they vote.

Regarding pitching one community over other, it will definitely happen. With the exit of Telangana there will be a lot of fights between various district of the rest of AP. The capital city will bring all the fights to the front. It is not going to be easy.