Telangana Monitor

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 24 Dec 2009 03:42

Why not show maps of the Vijayanagar empire

And again, what is the point being made?

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 24 Dec 2009 03:43

KV Rao wrote:
goutham wrote:[quote="ShyamSP"Why don't you roll back another 100 years or so and post the map.

Also why only Telengana. How about Gulbarga and Aurangabad divisions. Shouldn't they also ask for loot? In your mind only Telenganavadis?/quote]

Why dont you do it if you have the map? after all its you who needs to prove a point. Dont ask me to look at Govt. records again.

People in Gulbarga, Bidar and Aurangabad are willfully part of the state that they want to be part of ,during linguistic division of states.

No one is asking them to join Telengana by force. Very unlike the situation in AP today.
Please check the history of Andhra Pradesh, along with maps here:
history of AP on wikipedia
Till 1753, nearly the entire AP was under Nizam. In 1753, Nizam gave away circars to the French. British got them in 1765. Sometime in the 19th century Rayalaseema districts were ceded over by Nizam to the British.

[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Circars
"Finally, in 1823, the claims of the Nizam over the Northern Circars were bought outright by the Company, and they became a British possession."

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 24 Dec 2009 03:54

BTW, for supporters of Telengana, the Nagarjuna Sagar project was planned not by the AP Govt. but by the Planning Commission. It commissioned a scientific study to see how best the waters of the river could be exploited. The planning commission's proposal led to the implementation of the project.

For the record, the Nagarjuna Sagar project waters about 6 lakh acres in the Telengana region, as opposed to about 14 lakh acres in the other parts of Andhra Pradesh.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 24 Dec 2009 04:01

Sridhar, thank you for pointing that the Nagarjuna Sagar dam was conceptualized by the Planning Commission. This is the problem with the argument of the Telagana separatists that the people from the rest of the region have robbed them literally of their resources. They advance no scientific arguments or place facts in this regard, but only invective and their aggrieved sense of deprivation.

In fact, it is said that Rayalaseema part of the AP suffered the most due to the integration since the capital was shifted from Kurnool to Hyderabad. Telangana has 119 MLAs, what are all these people doing for the last 56 years?

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Dec 2009 04:17

Is it only me or some one else also are seeing the "paki" mentality of Telangana movement. KCR says that they are "different" from rest of Andhras because of the Nizam's culture just like pakis say they are different because of central asian turk culture.After Independence, instead of blaming the nizam for their backwardness (which is the truth) , they blamed the Coastal Andhras for all their problems just like India is always the scapegoat for pakistani problems. If someone wants to look at the cognotive dissonace of psudo-telanganites , look at KCR's shameless dhimmi lie. He is blatantly glorifying the Nizam and says what ever development happened in Hyderabad, happened in Nizam's time.

I think people might not have realised this, but the division of AP is looking strinkingly similar to division of India. Replace Congress party with the British, Chidambaram with Mountbatten , the "greviances" and lies of KCR with the "greviances" and lies of Jinnah and the 'direct action' of TRS to the direct action of the muslim league .

KCR issues ‘nuclear’ threat

‘‘If anyone says a word that Hyderabad is not part of Telangana, we will cut out their tongues,’’ he thundered and alleged that Andhra leaders had not built even a single railway station in the State capital. ‘‘All the development in Hyderabad was done under the Nizam’s rule,’’ he claimed.

He said the TRS would resort to ‘‘direct action’’ if leaders of the united State movement continued to make provocative statements and reeled out a list of various issues on which he alleged that Andhra leaders had let down the Telangana region in the past 50 years. Taking on the Tollywood, he justified the attack earlier in the day by his partymen on the film unit of a movie which has in the lead Manoj Kumar, veteran actor Mohan Babu’s son. ‘‘The film unit members should thank their stars that our activists did not harm them,’’ Chandrasekhara Rao said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Dec 2009 04:19

Their real anger is with the backwardness during the Nizam rule and they take it out on the modern India. Sixty year is not enough to make the progress for six centuries of neglect i.e. from 1340.
And current politicians encourage such ideas to keep people divided.

-------------------
Rony I did say that and was noted by paul!

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 48#p788348

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 24 Dec 2009 04:20

Rony exactly. A page earlier on this thread, I was comparing KCR to another leader, whom I did not name. I was referring to Mohammed Ali Jinnah, who put forward the same logic as KCR is doing now. That is: somehow muslims were suppressed by the Hindus and will be suppressed in an united India. KCR is putting forward the same argument.

Quoting myself:

Phew! Andhra Pradesh survives for now!

KCR cannot survive as a leader without the support of the Central Government of India, and the Central Congress leadership. I am not going to say it, but KCR reminds me of another leader, who lacked political base, but was propped up by the government, one who would make inflammatory statements like KCR, but who fell apart like a house of cards in the end.

Anuj, please contribute your thoughts, and not just cut and paste others'.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 24 Dec 2009 04:40

But weren't similar arguments, similar tactics (including implicit threats of and actual use of violence) used to create the state of AP by splitting from Madras state in the first place? Why wasn't that a case of similar Pakiness?

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Dec 2009 05:00

^^ Because the logic and purpose behind the "Partition" argument is to rally the folks who are either in the middle or those who are fervently behind the vishala/united AP type stuff rather than to be intellectually honest. An honest argument will not try to paint someone who considers himself/herself to be a victim to be a villain, it will defeat a perceived fact with a fact on the ground. It will not consider a region as real estate but as a stakeholder in united progress. Unfortunately, this thread has seen many versions of name-calling and riffraff going from dhimmi to paki to traitor to neighbor's envy, etc. Just hold on and watch the fun, as more such names shall be unfurled, after all emotion has nothing called logic to it. And I wonder about the nationalism behind the nationalistic bent of posters on this thread, when it comes to fire in the house, anything will do. Bharat-rakshaking has a new meaning for me. I would also like to get emotional and say hypocrites, but that may be stretching things too far and not right.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Dec 2009 05:01

Sridhar wrote:BTW, for supporters of Telengana, the Nagarjuna Sagar project was planned not by the AP Govt. but by the Planning Commission. It commissioned a scientific study to see how best the waters of the river could be exploited. The planning commission's proposal led to the implementation of the project.

For the record, the Nagarjuna Sagar project waters about 6 lakh acres in the Telengana region, as opposed to about 14 lakh acres in the other parts of Andhra Pradesh.

Does the 14 lakhs include the lands that would get water irrespective of the Dam? The deevi seema (area of islands inside Krishna river - very beautiful area and now with a lot of gas resources) area of Krishna district will have water anyway.

Not just that, it was part of investments towards the green revolution to make India self sufficient in food. There were some heavy quick decisions that were made by the planning commission those day to get out of shitty food imports that India was living on. It was architected by K.L.Rao who is from Vijayawada/Coastal AP. Telangana folks think it is a conspiracy by K.L.Rao to help coastal AP. The funny part is their anger is against the folks from the districts of Krishna, East and West Godavari districts. This particular dam can only stop a portion of water from the Krishna district reaching the sea. Most of the infrastructure in these districts is from pre-independence era.

These districts are at a very low level with fertile soil and with no much hurdles. Even if a few people sit together and do all kinds of modern planning in the form of dams etc., they can stop these districts from three crops to 1.5 crops and that is also after huge-huge investments in the up lands. What is final achievement? Will the overall produce output remain same from 1 crop in uplands+1.5 crops from low lands? I don't know that kind of investments has any benefits for the costs.

Another member Dasari has put the elevation maps in the states thread. Here is the link:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 13#p787613

The best for Telangana is to urbanize, industrialize to access the manufacturing industires rather than running after agriculture.

goutham · Post by **goutham** » 24 Dec 2009 05:17

Rony wrote:Is it only me or some one else also are seeing the "paki" mentality of Telangana movement. KCR says that they are "different" from rest of Andhras because of the Nizam's culture just like pakis say they are different because of central asian turk culture.After Independence, instead of blaming the nizam for their backwardness (which is the truth) , they blamed the Coastal Andhras for all their problems just like India is always the scapegoat for pakistani problems. If someone wants to look at the cognotive dissonace of psudo-telanganites , look at KCR's shameless dhimmi lie. He is blatantly glorifying the Nizam and says what ever development happened in Hyderabad, happened in Nizam's time.

I think people might not have realised this, but the division of AP is looking strinkingly similar to division of India. Replace Congress party with the British, Chidambaram with Mountbatten , the "greviances" and lies of KCR with the "greviances" and lies of Jinnah and the 'direct action' of TRS to the direct action of the muslim league .

KCR issues ‘nuclear’ threat
‘‘If anyone says a word that Hyderabad is not part of Telangana, we will cut out their tongues,’’ he thundered and alleged that Andhra leaders had not built even a single railway station in the State capital. ‘‘All the development in Hyderabad was done under the Nizam’s rule,’’ he claimed.

He said the TRS would resort to ‘‘direct action’’ if leaders of the united State movement continued to make provocative statements and reeled out a list of various issues on which he alleged that Andhra leaders had let down the Telangana region in the past 50 years. Taking on the Tollywood, he justified the attack earlier in the day by his partymen on the film unit of a movie which has in the lead Manoj Kumar, veteran actor Mohan Babu’s son. ‘‘The film unit members should thank their stars that our activists did not harm them,’’ Chandrasekhara Rao said.

what about the same paki mentality when seperating from Madras Presidency? would you have like me to call Potti SreeRamulu a Paki?

Comparing a demand for a separate state to that of a country shows your mental pakiness and intellectual bankruptcy.

With all due respect to your historical perspectives, it seems you don't know much on Telangana statehood and why that demand has been in the people's mind for almost 40 years. No sir, its not some 'perceived' animosity or as someone else mentioned as "you vs me syndrome". It has roots in historical injustice to the people of that area. To refresh - Telangana before the unification was a surplus state - there were irrigation projects planned to increase the cultivatable land. Then the state AP was formed, now after 50 or so years the cultivatable land has actually shrunk. There was a so called gentleman's agreement which agreed on projects on all the areas; but amazingly the projects in other regions have started and completed and they increased cultavatable land but all the projects that were promised in Telangana are either cancelled or in progress for several decades. Some people just brush it aside as lack of resources - this is the biggest myth propagated by the govt - please read some well researched articles by Prof.Biyyala Janardhan Rao - comparing the Telangana land and its cultivation and comparisons before and after the state formation.

The comparisons between the demand for separate state with succession from Indian union is almost laughable. Its a separate statehood that is being demanded and it has historical background, you know what it is - "it was a separate state!!!" and a state that was doing quite well for itself. The united AP was formed promising (gentlemans agreement) equal opportunities and stategic partnerships - which never occurred - what really happened was resource depletion. There are two major rivers going thru Telangana but it has almost negligible share of waters. The two major irrigation projects - NagarjunaSagar and Srisailam - are virtually in the backdrop of Telangana. The construction of these projects made seveal villages go under water but the fruits of these projects never came to the people living there. No - I am not making up these just do some research you will find very easily. hether we like it or not - in India the caste/region plays a big role even in govt jobs recruitments and promotions. In the last several decades that is what happened - most of govt officials would promote people of their own region and Telangana got screwed big time in that aspect as well. All projects in other regions will be approved but when it comes to Telangana they get postponed not years but decades.

Every time the demand for Telangana comes up and heated it gets brushed aside saying its "just socalled jealous people" who are worked up settlers or its all about those unemployed politicians creating problmes and prompting "innoncent (read idiot) people". That is not true - its just pushing the water under rug. The fact is Telangana people are incredibly patient lot and they are taking far too much crap for nothing. Its incredible that Congress and Sonia Gandhi explicitly agreed for Telangana state before last elections (it even incorporated in one of Presidents speech) and still talking and saying things like 'a careful consideration will be given'. Nobody likes the violence in this agitation but if there is violence blame lethargic govt. not the agitators.

goutham · Post by **goutham** » 24 Dec 2009 05:22

Sarma wrote:Sridhar, thank you for pointing that the Nagarjuna Sagar dam was conceptualized by the Planning Commission. This is the problem with the argument of the Telagana separatists that the people from the rest of the region have robbed them literally of their resources. They advance no scientific arguments or place facts in this regard, but only invective and their aggrieved sense of deprivation.

In fact, it is said that Rayalaseema part of the AP suffered the most due to the integration since the capital was shifted from Kurnool to Hyderabad. Telangana has 119 MLAs, what are all these people doing for the last 56 years?

http://www.telangana.com/Mahaboobnagar/mbn_irrig.htm
Here is the fact about Nagarjuna Sagar Dam

"Nagarjuna Sagar project was taken up as a joint project between the then Andhra State and the then Hyderabad State in 1954. On the basis of the agreement the project was to be jointly executed with left canal to serve 7.95 lakh acres in Nalgonda and Khammam districts with 161 TMC feet of water as its share. Around 2 lakhs acres of lands in Andhra State limits were also to be served from the left canal.
With the reorganization of states and the merging of Telangana with Andhra, the Andhra State became sole authority to execute the project. The bed levels of left main canal were indiscriminately dropped. As a result of this manipulation in the ayacut of left canal, the ayacut in Telangana The Nagarjuna sagar supplies only 80 TMC feet of water to Telangana ayacut under left canal, against its entitlement of 161 TMC feet of water, under 1954 agreement.
This is a violation of 1954 agreement and violation of the rights of Telangana Protected under section 108(2) (a) of SR act. The left canal alignment is manipulated so badly that it is not possible to make available the balance water from left canal."

Telanagana people have been asking about Pranahita Chevella project for a long time and no traction on it. Andhra politicians ploy is to announce a project and don't release any money. Here is the news report about the project:
http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/10/16/st ... 230100.htm

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Dec 2009 05:37

The formation of AP was completely a different matter sridhar garu.It was based on a genuine linguistic identity, unlike the telangana argument. Until and Unless telangana leaders demonstrate that their region is discriminated and they by provide evidence to what thugs like KCR are saying that the reason for the perceived backwardness of telangana is because of the 'colonial mentality' of Coastal Andhras and prove that the division of telangana is good for telanganites, Andhras and for the country in general, i am afraid their 'muslim league' like tactics will always be seen as for what they are. Do remember that people of Rayalaseema which is even more backward than Telangana is staunchly againt bifuricating Andhra Pradesh.The kind of arguments which KCR is using is more applicable to Rayalaseema and North Coastal Andhra (which are the most backward districts of AP), but people of that region are staunchly against division of Andhra.There in lies the irony.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 24 Dec 2009 05:46

goutham, don't you find nothing wrong when KCR praises Nizam? What happened to all the sacrifices of the Telangana people fighting against Nizam?
You keep talking of facts, what about KCR praising Nizam who killed thousands of Telangana people?

This is the Pakiness of KCR. His Pakiness is not solely because he asks for a separate state. His tactics for getting a separate state are exactly like that of Jinnah. KCR is now talking of "direct action", whatever that means.

Anyways, there is no point discussing with people like you when you start linking TDF website material.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Dec 2009 05:48

Seperating from Madras state and current formation of so called "smaller states" is way different. Glorious past of Indian have proud identities and revival of those identities is essential for building a strong nation. Telugu, Tamil, Maratha, Punjabi etc. are identites which are proud past ones where as Circars, madras, Mysore, Nizam etc are the ones created by British and their feudal pimps (later formed Justice party). To create a strong Indian identity the linguistic states helped in a way to give the identity back. What is identiy of Tamil or Telugu in the long run under Madras state.

The next thing is about Hindi as national language and its almost acceptability across the vast Telugu land. Along with Telugu identity they have acceptability(may be due to its leadership) to modern nation called India/Bharat or Hindustan and its initial leaders. Politically also even if has regional parties, it still keeps one foot in the national parties of India.

I do not say that every Telugu person has all the above vision but a substantial leadership of the past and also to an extent of the present has such aspects of the vision.

Regarding Telangana it is such an unfortunate feeling that a portion of Andhras have deceived them. Their region has 40% of seats in the state which can actually do wonders in grabbing resources and also they could have done reverse decieving but they choose to complain rather than showing their original Kakatheeya spirit.

Original Telugu spirit is from the current Telangana region with Orugallu (Warangal) as their capital. when Warangal was capital, the so called coastal districts are ruled by the folks for Orugallu.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Dec 2009 06:00

Telangana: Cong balances on seesaw of interests

Home Minister P Chidambaram, who first made the midnight announcement promising Telangana, has now backtracked on his promise, making another announcement effectively putting Telangana on the backburner.

{what can any one say - poor Chidu scared S h i t}
Till Wednesday afternoon, Chidambaram stated that it would be another senior minister and not him who will be making a statement, which only meant either Prime Minister Manmohan Singh or Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee.

{hahaha- Rajmata trying save.....}
Highly-placed sources in the government say that Congress President Sonia Gandhi had asked Pranab to make the second statement, rolling back the Telangana announcement. However, Mukherjee is learnt to have the told her that the second statement should come from the person who made the first statement, for better credibility. He also advised the Congress president that the prime minister should be kept out of the picture. {Pranabda finally drew the blood. He was furious against Chidu from the day one for such hasty announcements}

In a short statement, the Union Home minister said, "At a meeting of all political parties on December 7 a consensus emerged on Telangana. The situation has altered now. Centre wants to take all views before coming to a decision. Peace and tranquillity should be maintained," he said.

This statement effectively put the demand for a separate state of Telangana in abeyance, as was being demanded by MPs and leaders crying for a united Andhra Pradesh, which also includes the powerful Reddy lobby as well as other interests that have been working overtime to fuel the anti-Telangana agitation.

Meanwhile, the pro-Telangana forces are on a warpath and the situation in the state is becoming increasingly difficult for the government to control.

{Now we have the see how the idiot of the rajmata party will dance in AP. First oppurtunity to Rosiah to prove his mettle.}
Having burnt its fingers with its own initiative, the Congress is now trying to pass the buck on to the Andhra leadership. The party said that Telangana was an old issue and it was for the collective political leadership of Andhra Pradesh to resolve the situation that has arisen due to regional divisions over its proposed statehood.

Congress spokesman Manish Tiwari said it was for the "collective wisdom" of Andhra Pradesh leaders across the political spectrum to "sit down and form appropriate solution".

Answering queries about divisions in its Andhra Pradesh unit on Telangana, Tiwari said that it was an old issue, which has been grappled by "generations of leaders of the state".

He refused to comment on the remarks of Home Minister P Chidambaram, made earlier this month, giving principled clearance to the demand for a separate Telangana state.

Faced with deep divisions in its ranks in the state, the Congress has been trying to come out with a compromise formula to bring down political temperatures. The Congress core group met Monday evening while senior leaders met party president Sonia Gandhi Wednesday to evolve an appropriate response.

Congress sources said that Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee, Defence Minister AK Antony, Chidambaram, Law Minister Veerapa Moily and Ahmed Patel, political secretary to the Congress president, attended the meeting at Sonia Gandhi's residence.

The BJP, which is supporting the demand for a separate Telangana, has now called for a bandh and reports are that large-scale violence and destruction can be expected in the days ahead.

goutham · Post by **goutham** » 24 Dec 2009 06:05

Sarma wrote:goutham, don't you find nothing wrong when KCR praises Nizam? What happened to all the sacrifices of the Telangana people fighting against Nizam?
You keep talking of facts, what about KCR praising Nizam who killed thousands of Telangana people?

This is the Pakiness of KCR. His Pakiness is not solely because he asks for a separate state. His tactics for getting a separate state are exactly like that of Jinnah. KCR is now talking of "direct action", whatever that means.

Anyways, there is no point discussing with people like you when you start linking TDF website material.

Show me a single post of mine praising KCR, Infact I have condoned him for inciting violence.

Supporting Telengana is not the same supporting KCR . Equating all people who argue for telangana with Jinnah is moral and intellectual bankruptcy. How would you feel if put Potti Sriramulu and Jinnah on the same yard stick and call him a Paki?

What is wrong with using TDF material? Why are you guys getting so defensive, I am not advocating for seperate country here, merely a seperate state.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Dec 2009 06:06

The CM will handle the law and order situation.

goutham · Post by **goutham** » 24 Dec 2009 06:13

nukavarapu wrote:
goutham wrote:
The pakiness is not by Potti SreeRamulu, he never threatened anyone to cut throats or bloodshed. What KCR and his goons are doing is exact Pakiness. He is threatening to spill blood and cut throats of Kosta and Seema People. Thats a big lahori logic that entire development of Hyderabad was done during the Nizam. What else can be expected from such Paki mentality after what CBN did for Hyderabad. Did Nizam give them Hi-Tech City, or Microsoft or Oracle or ISB? What statements KCR is making is pakiness at its best !!!

I am not going to defend KCR here but most of the statements you made are clear lies, can you provide some links where he said anything about cutting throats and spilling blood, you are simply exaggerating.

Hitec City, Oracle and MSFT did not exsist during Nizam's time. They came to Hyderabad because of good educational infrastructure, Not merely because Naidu wanted to. They would have come even if AP didnt exist and Telangana exsisted Tell me one big university or educational institution established by Mr. double speak flip flop Naidu.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Dec 2009 06:18

goutham, you mean condemned and not condoned?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Dec 2009 06:26

goutham wrote: They would have come even if AP didnt exist and Telangana exsisted Tell me one big university or educational institution established by Mr. double speak flip flop Naidu.

What about this http://www.isb.edu/

Leave the small things man. If we go on nit-picking on small things they could have got REC, the new IIT-H also on the otherside. By the way nothing went to Rayalaseema even in terms of industries or educational institutions. This kind of discussion will be cheap.

Fundamental questions -
1) What is the contribution of 119 MLAs and 15 MPs of Telangana over the period of 60 years? why did they not collaborate to achieve things for their region passionately?
2) Regarding the off-repeated land mafia stuff of Hyderabad about Kammas from Coastal AP during TDP rule and Reddys from Ralyalaseema during YSR rule - There are similar thugs/castes in Telangana (Velamas and Reddys). They are all part of the both the admins and why couldn't they do similar grabbing? What stopped them? For example Devendra Goud is second in command during TDP rule and obviously he will know all the decisions regarding madhapur, kondapur and outer ring road. What stopped them to grab the lands competetively with kammas and Rayalaseema-Reddys?

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 24 Dec 2009 06:40

Muppalla: Meeku cheppe anthati vadini kanu (in Telugu, not bright enough to advise you), I would say give up arguing with the likes of goutham. For someone suffering from a sense of deprivation, there is no way one can convince such people. All logic in this world will not convince them.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Dec 2009 07:19

Muppalla wrote:Seperating from Madras state and current formation of so called "smaller states" is way different.

Well, yes, they are different. In 1953, we saw language as a least common denominator. And folks of this very forum kept whining about how language can be a cause for such fanaticism in the relevant threads. And we have an answer to that: language cannot be the least common denominator, but it has to be sustainable socio-political-economic development by preserving cultural identity. When things change on the ground and a new logic is set on the ground, folks who claim themselves to be nationalists, instead of analyzing things from a nationalistic viewpoint do what?

Their region has 40% of seats in the state which can actually do wonders in grabbing resources and also they could have done reverse decieving but they choose to complain rather than showing their original Kakatheeya spirit. Original Telugu spirit is from the current Telangana region with Orugallu (Warangal) as their capital. when Warangal was capital, the so called coastal districts are ruled by the folks for Orugallu.

I love this Kakatiya-Chalukya spirit. When things on the ground are seen as kingdoms which control land, wealth and resources, you deserve the whining when people who feel they have nt got their due shares whine. Surely, this kingdom-logic needs to be framed in A-class gold and put on the first post of this thread so that folks like me dont get confused and step into a sewage.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 24 Dec 2009 07:34

Stan_Savljevic wrote: Well, yes, they are different. In 1953, we saw language as a least common denominator. And folks of this very forum kept whining about how language can be a cause for such fanaticism in the relevant threads. And we have an answer to that: language cannot be the least common denominator, but it has to be sustainable socio-political-economic development by preserving cultural identity. When things change on the ground and a new logic is set on the ground, folks who claim themselves to be nationalists, instead of analyzing things from a nationalistic viewpoint do what?

You hit the nail on the head! I too was pretty surprised when people who had claimed that forming states based on language was wrong(didn't foster unity etc), turn out to support a united telugu state with many claiming consiparacy theories for splitting telugus!

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Dec 2009 08:09

Stan_Savljevic wrote: Well, yes, they are different. In 1953, we saw language as a least common denominator. And folks of this very forum kept whining about how language can be a cause for such fanaticism in the relevant threads. And we have an answer to that: language cannot be the least common denominator, but it has to be sustainable socio-political-economic development by preserving cultural identity. When things change on the ground and a new logic is set on the ground, folks who claim themselves to be nationalists, instead of analyzing things from a nationalistic viewpoint do what?

If you are referring to me, let me clarify. I never posted against linguistic states. My only minor difference with you regarding Telugu state split from Madras state. my position was Potti Sriramulu did not create a fanatic Telugu state but he used Telugu state as a platform but there were other reasons for the split. I do not want to write the reasons again and again as you remember what I have written in related threads.

What is the new logic? Care to explain.

I don't even understand what you mean regarding nationalists comment.

I love this Kakatiya-Chalukya spirit. When things on the ground are seen as kingdoms which control land, wealth and resources, you deserve the whining when people who feel they have nt got their due shares whine. Surely, this kingdom-logic needs to be framed in A-class gold and put on the first post of this thread so that folks like me dont get confused and step into a sewage.

No one compelled you.

You are interested and the addiction is so much you have to come here and take swipes at posters while contributing your sewer to the sewage. That is your style and it is fun for me anyway

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Dec 2009 08:24

Muppalla wrote: No one compelled you. You are interested and the addiction is so much you have to come here and take swipes at posters while contributing your sewer to the sewage. That is your style and it is fun for me anyway

As long as you keep the sewer to your side of the region and dont make it a open TN-bashing session, I have no problem with whether the costa-seema folks wanna kissy-kissy with the Telengana folks or not. If you want to check, I started taking potshots [and that too directly and not snidely] only when folks such as you and sundry other silly posts about owner's pride and other nonsense turned up here. So take that and shove it, I personally care a rat about what happens inside AP, keep it to yourself and stop bashing other states and throwing fancy conspiracy theories and developing a caste-based geneology and explanation for this and that. For every damn thing, there is a Kamma-Velama-Kapu explanation or a Kakatiya-Chalukya nonsense. And if TN pops in the next time, I will choose to arrogate on TN's behalf as I choose it right. And if folks bring in conspiracy theories, either they bring proof or risk their credibility, of whatever that is left after the elections thread.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Dec 2009 08:34

Stan_Savljevic wrote: As long as you keep the sewer to your side of the region and dont make it a open TN-bashing session, I have no problem with whether the costa-seema folks wanna kissy-kissy with the Telengana folks or not. If you want to check, I started taking potshots [and that too directly and not snidely] only when folks such as you and sundry other silly posts about owner's pride and other nonsense turned up here. So take that and shove it, I personally care a rat about what happens inside AP, keep it to yourself and stop bashing other states and throwing fancy conspiracy theories and developing a caste-based geneology and explanation for this and that. For every damn thing, there is a Kamma-Velama-Kapu explanation or a Kakatiya-Chalukya nonsense. And if TN pops in the next time, I will choose to arrogate on TN's behalf as I choose it right. And if folks bring in conspiracy theories, either they bring proof or risk their credibility, of whatever that is left after the elections thread.

I will write what I like and there are several Tam-bash (semi-bash) posts from Kerala and Kannadiga lands too

in the first few pages. Thanks but no-thanks for your advice. You anyway wrote what you wanted and responded at everypoint of time with your views. Why do you need to sound as though you waited for long to respond on behalf of TN

Regarding CTs ( alleged?) you have the option of not reading them. For your information this forum has good readership for them as well. I know pretty well this forum is not owned by some Stan_Savljevic.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 24 Dec 2009 08:42

Hello, it is time that wild conspiracy theories need proof. Raju just now got banned for one such thing. Rahul Mehta has gotten banned for one such thing. And many other posters who have contributed to this forum have got banned for making wild claims. I am not going to put a note to some admin and say "yeh kyaa hai?" especially when it is one of the admin who initiated this downslide.

But fact remains that if wild posts are posted and people ask for proof, especially when the posts border on maligning "TN elites" and TN people in general, more especially in times of your internal crisis, and if you try to parry it aside saying "Kerala and Karnataka posters do it, so I have the right too," you are putting your credibility firmly in the toilet. So please desist...

I will write what I like

You cant write some arrant nonsense just because you like it, what you write, esp if it maligns me or others, need to have proof. Else DESIST. I can put the same hat and write lots of stuff about you or the group you belong to, I am not going to cheapen myself by doing that.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 24 Dec 2009 08:46

Looking at the Telangana issue from a different angle!

What is the impact of ~15 Telangana MPs resigning Vs ~25 Andhra-Rayalaseema MPs resigning on UPA govt?

Who will get new influence at centre? Mulayam or Laloo?

What is the impact on National Security?

Can UPA govt avoid this impact by imposing President's Rule?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Dec 2009 08:49

Stan_Savljevic wrote:You cant write some arrant nonsense just because you like it, what you write, esp if it maligns me or others, need to have proof. Else DESIST. I can put the same hat and write lots of stuff about you or the group you belong to, I am not going to cheapen myself by doing that.

I don't need your sermons. I always wrote politely only to the best of my knowledge. I know I have erred at a particular time in the past (about an year ago) and I got my first warning. If the other person has a particular agressive style ( like you on LL thread) I replied in the same tone. If you remember I even asked you if it was too much.

Regarding TN stuff, I worte with chronology of past political events. In the end after an year I may be wrong and then I will stand corrected. For whatever the allegations I made, I also provided reasons.

This forum is not just reporting news with some links and I guess the members write their views/biases as well.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Dec 2009 09:01

Stan_Savljevic wrote: As long as you keep the sewer to your side of the region and dont make it a open TN-bashing session, I have no problem with whether the costa-seema folks wanna kissy-kissy with the Telengana folks or not. If you want to check, I started taking potshots [and that too directly and not snidely] only when folks such as you and sundry other silly posts about owner's pride and other nonsense turned up here. So take that and shove it, I personally care a rat about what happens inside AP, keep it to yourself and stop bashing other states and throwing fancy conspiracy theories and developing a caste-based geneology and explanation for this and that. For every damn thing, there is a Kamma-Velama-Kapu explanation or a Kakatiya-Chalukya nonsense. And if TN pops in the next time, I will choose to arrogate on TN's behalf as I choose it right. And if folks bring in conspiracy theories, either they bring proof or risk their credibility, of whatever that is left after the elections thread.

What nonsense stan garu ! When did anyone had any open TN bashings here , unless and until you equate critisizing chidabaram as 'open TN bashing' ? If at all , it was vina who started taking cheap pot shots ! BTW, If you choose to arrogate yourself on TN's behalf and start trolling just for that sake, i guss what happened to your 'let's take a nationalist viewpoint' moral posture !

vina wrote:Your destiny is to be ruled by the boor-o-crats of Fort St George . That is the way it was sirs, the "natural" scheme of things ,all the way upto Ganjam district (now in Orissa). The only thing is do you want to be one of 'em Boor-o-crats INSIDE the Fort or one of those outside the fort!

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 24 Dec 2009 09:34

Telangana on the boil; TRS's 2-day bandh from today

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... today.html

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 24 Dec 2009 10:20

Stan_Savljevic wrote:Hello, it is time that wild conspiracy theories need proof. Raju just now got banned for one such thing. Rahul Mehta has gotten banned for one such thing.

I didnt get banned for CT. I got banned because

1. I made improper comment when YSR died
2. Avinash R insulted my father (for which he got warned later) and my response to him was harsh , and that response created 2 warnings and then an automatic ban.

I wasnt banned for any CT.

AFAIT, CTs should be welcomed. If you think a CT is wrong, audience is smart enough to understand that and dismiss it. IOW, a bad CT is a stone that would not create even a ripple in water and hence it is harmless. Only reason to demand a ban on CT is perhaps a fear that that CT is perhaps correct and logical.

So not only I welcome CTs, I see those who want ban on CTs with suspicion.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 24 Dec 2009 10:34

With a heavy, but relaxed, heart, I have to say that the Telangana divide seems to have taken an irreversible turn. Rowdyism seems to be the favorite approach to achieve the T-state. As before, I am deeply saddened both by the opportunistic role of the BJP and the goondaism of the ABVP. Yesterday, they attacked an ongoing shooting and simply destroyed the whole set with out any provocation whatsoever. It may just be better that they get the Telangana that they so seem to want.

This is a faultline that only seems to be getting deeper and thicker due to the rowdyism of all T-protagonists, particularly the TRS activists and the OU students.

Just wanted to share my thoughts.

Sarma

PS: The samaikyandhra protagonists have launched a valiant fight, won the battle, but seem to be losing the war.

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 24 Dec 2009 10:46

Telangana XXV: Congratulations Andhra
December 24, 2009

Congratulations Andhras! Today Andhras have once again won against their arch rivals Telanganas. The goal score stands at 200-0.

The game is still on. Telanganas have been facing the onslaught of the majority Andhras for fifty years now and are being ruthlessly and mercilessly beaten, but looks like there is no respite for Telangana because Andhras are not letting Telangana stop the game. Andhras want to continue the game and keep Telangana playing so that they can better their score. They want to break all records eventually, that of Nizam rule of Telangana, British occupation of India, Sri Lankan suppression of Tamils, that of Israeli occupation of Palestine, that of White discrimination of Blacks. May be they want to keep the game on so that one day they can even break the record of Nadir Shah and Genghis Khan.

Andhras scored the first goal within the first second of the game when Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy dismissed the idea of Deputy CM that was agreed upon in Gentlemen’s Agreement right on 1st November of 1956, thereby starting the saga of humiliation of Telanganas.

Later on, every point of Gentlemen’s Agreement was flouted meticulously making the score 10-0. All the agreements of 1960s were flouted. Various GOs that were agreed upon were eventually flouted. The decimation of Telangana has just begun. It was the turn of irrigation where every agreement was ignored depriving the region of its share of water decreasing the irrigated land of 20 Lakh Acres in 1956 to 12 Lakh Acres in 2004, thereby proving that Telangana was better off under Nizam Regime than under Andhra Regime. With that the score reached 100-0.

Andhras scored a major victory when they launched ‘Jai Andhra’ movement to seek a separate state in 1973 to overturn a Supreme Court ruling that protected Telanganas. Then it was the case of government jobs. 25,000 illegal jobs based on bogus Mulki certificates were given to Andhras by 1975 and about 60,000 illegal jobs by 1985. The score reached 150-0.

For the last twenty years, Telangana was cheated on every front, from moving funds that belonged to Telangana to Andhra, from allocation of lopsided budgets for colleges and schools favoring Andhras, stalling implementation of GO 610 and other presidential orders. The score was standing at 199-0 last night.

Tonight, Andhras have done very well for themselves. They have used the power of majority to cow the minority into submission. They used fasts, riots on streets, protests, strikes, bandhs, and even antics like fleeing from Vijayawada hospital to Hyderabad hospital, to stifle the voice of a minority region in their state. All the Andhra politicians who have earlier promised Telangana State did a blatant U-turn as if it was preordained.

P Chidambaram, Home Minister of India, has put the Telangana state formation on hold giving another victory to Andhras. While Andhras rejoice on depriving Telangana of their state, Telanganas stand dejected once again. Looks like there is no respite for Telanganas! They continue to lose to Andhras without any let down. They are tired of this game. It was Nizam before and it is now Andhras. They want to opt out, but they are not allowed to. Andhras want to score few more goals. They are not done yet. ‘Abhi game baki hai dost’, they tell us. One of the pending goals is to take away Hyderabad from Telangana. That way they can leave Telangana completely sucked dry, emasculated, emaciated, humiliated and battered.

Today, everyone in Telangana is clear on one thing. The only reason P Chidambaram changed his stance on Telangana is because of Andhra-Rayalaseema people and politicians. Most of us, even the most reasonable, literate and rational people of Telangana, hold Andhra politicians and people responsible for what happened today and grant you the victory. All the democratic institutions of India have failed us today.

But since the game is still on, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Andhra people and politicians on their decisive victories. Congratulations on your score of 200-0.

telangana-xxv-congratulations-andhra
har kutte ka ek din atta hai

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 24 Dec 2009 11:41

Congratulations Andhras! Today Andhras have once again won against their arch rivals Telanganas. The goal score stands at 200-0.

This is called manufacturing hatred, Paki style !

Andhras want to continue the game and keep Telangana playing so that they can better their score. They want to break all records eventually, that of Nizam rule of Telangana, British occupation of India, Sri Lankan suppression of Tamils, that of Israeli occupation of Palestine, that of White discrimination of Blacks. May be they want to keep the game on so that one day they can even break the record of Nadir Shah and Genghis Khan.

The dude forget to add Nazi- Jew comparision

Andhras scored the first goal within the first second of the game when Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy dismissed the idea of Deputy CM that was agreed upon in Gentlemen’s Agreement right on 1st November of 1956, thereby starting the saga of humiliation of Telanganas.

Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy is not from coastal Andhra.He is from Rayalaseema, the region which is even more backward than Telangana. There goes the Andhra domination argument !

The only reason P Chidambaram changed his stance on Telangana is because of Andhra-Rayalaseema people and politicians. Most of us, even the most reasonable, literate and rational people of Telangana, hold Andhra politicians and people responsible for what happened today and grant you the victory.

I thought only Andhras are the British/Israeli/White like oppressors. Now when did Rayalaseema people join it . Rayalaseema is even more backward than Telangana but they dont want to split Andhra Pradesh. Something does not tally with KCR logic .

har kutte ka ek din atta hai

That was unwarranted and deeply offensive.If the Telangana wants to seperate, it can only be done with rational arguments .Attitudes like this will not solve any problems but only increase hatred.

Sarma · Post by **Sarma** » 24 Dec 2009 11:44

Admins:

I request you humbly to delete the above post by Anuj, which is just cutting and pasting hate messages from other blogs on to this forum, where we value reasoned discussions.

Thanks
Sarma

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 24 Dec 2009 11:49

Sarma wrote:Admins:
I request you humbly to delete the above post by Anuj, which is just cutting and pasting hate messages from other blogs on to this forum, where we value reasoned discussions.
Thanks
Sarma

Excellent, Our claims are discriminatory to you? Your victims of discrimination? Victims of hate campaign? You want to talk about telangana but you don't want the people of telangana to take part in that discussion. I wonder why you want that? Manufacturing consent?

negi · Post by **negi** » 24 Dec 2009 11:59

Quoting from facebook (individual has shared it in public hence posting in full)

Nation-wise, state-fool, are we?

When I was five we used to live in a small apartment which you would typically associate with any middle class family back in late 1980s. One can easily visualize my place and the intricacies which come with it. Our living area was a small bedroom and a disproportionately large drawing room, that was all. Guests were frequent, and whenever they would come over, we would be restricted to remain “locked up” in that small bedroom. Even the dining table and television were in the drawing room and, with my mother being a little conservative with exposing me to all sorts of people who were our visitors, I remembering delays in our small family meals and missing so many of my favourite toon-series. Worst time was when there were exams. I remember having to go granny place to find a peaceful place to study. Then one fine day, mom had a ground-shaking idea which would change our lives forever, well at least till we remained in that house. She brought a thick curtain and separated our drawing room. Voila! Now we had given birth to our own dining room out of the drawing room! Everyone was happy! We were happy to now watch all our programmes on television and do everything which we were deprived off due to that darn over-sized, under-utilized room.

Did the large glorious drawing room get smaller? YES
Were the curtains impregnable? NO
Did the house get any smaller? NO. In fact, in effective terms it only got bigger as utilization shot up!
Were the people of the household happier? YES

The example from my house is typically true with many middle class. We do it in our homes all the time. But when it comes to the nation, effective space for diversified activities gives us constipation. Somehow, in our meta-state, rather ill informed nationalism with stagnant notions, we cannot get rid of the belief that division of state is the same as splitting the nation!

Let me give an example. Gujarat was created out of Bombay State in 1960 and today both the states born in the form of Gujarat and Maharashtra are doing better than they erstwhile – infact both of them together account for nearly half of our exports and 2/3rd of our stock market. Some years back three new states were created in the form of Uttarakhand, Chattisgarh and Jharkhand out of the high population/area states of Uttar Pradesh (highest population), Madhya Pradesh (largest area) and Bihar(2nd highest population). Today, at least 5 out of the 6 of these affected/created states are doing better than one would have expected them to do as a united entity. I will take the case of UP for a reference, the state being my home. I remember the times, when Uttar Pradesh (which also had Uttaranchal), used to pursue a policy of reservation for “hill people” (people of Uttaranchal). The “maidani” (plain) population had a lot of heartburn at under-qualified “hilly” people getting many government jobs. Meanwhile, with all the fast flowing rivers, the region of “hill” was home to many hydro plants which were a lifeline of the UP power generation. However, with a highly charged political environment ruled with subsidy, the rates for power were far lower than the actual cost to the state and with this sub-optimal pricing there was a clear case of inefficient and over usage, which further led to rostering of power supply and power-cuts leading to economic losses. Then the “curtains” were drawn in the midst of much opposition. Today, at least I can claim that the situation is much better. First, UP now has to pay for the power from Uttarakhand, which has made usage of the power more efficient. Second, with reservation gone, there is more competitiveness and hence urge towards skill building in the “hill” people and less heartburn in the people of the new UP. Such acceleration is also evident in the state of the Chattisgarh and the much smaller version 2.0 of Madhya Pradesh. The situation in less than a decade:
Both the parent and child are now making remarkable progress and in terms of GDP growth they are doing at least 50% better than the erstwhile Madhya Pradesh v1.0.
Both the governments are more responsive and directly accountable to their respective people.
Both are award winning stories of turn around in governance responsiveness.
Of course, there is free flow of labour and capital across the states.

Let us make no mistakes about the philosophy of India - Unity in diversity does not mean forceful unification of all diversities. It means respecting all forms of diversities, creating spaces for them and finding harmonious intersections of them for common national goals. With the boom in population these sub groups will only become more pronounced and with better communication these “prouncements” become more visible.

The ultimate aim of any government should be an inclusive and sustainable development within all states, with clear accountability of government. The overall development of the nation would only be a sum of the all these development centers in the form of states. When we attained independence, we had some 12 states and 300 million people. Today, we have almost 4 times the number of people, if some “curtains” have to be drawn to match the population and achieve our development goals, so be it. If USA can survive and thrive 300 years with 50 states, why cannot we?

Let us also be clear about the flavour of federal and confederate “khichdi” we are operating in. The philosophy of the creation of the state of India was based on a mixed role of state and central governments. Whereas the role of the state government, which enjoys the bulk of the developmental power, is to be competitive for development, the center is supposed to be controlling the reins and ensuring that benefits are directed to those who need it the most – in a way creating equity in a competing state.

We also need to look at the historic context of Andhra Pradesh. Pre-indpendence India had Telugu speaking people spread across two provinces – The Madras Province (under British Province) and the Kingdom of Hyderabad (under semi-autonomous Nizam). Traditionally, there was a wide gap in the prosperity of the common farmers in these two regions (Hyderabad being far poorer) – primarily due to the nature of rule. When Hyderabad was brought under India under the actions of the Operation Polo in 1947-48, the late dissolution further brought misery to the common man of Hyderabad who lost out on Right to Property for at least one year. This difference lived on till 1960s when the state of Andhra Pradesh was formed by uniting the Telugu speaking from Madras Province and Hyderabad Province, and even today when we find that most of the rich and influential come from the coastal parts – erstwhile Madras Province part. Most the mineral resources in the Telangana region and even the political positions in the Telangana region, and the industry of Hyderabad are all occupied by influential from coastal parts. The thrust of the protest comes from these coastal influential few but powerful and the economic backing to throw their voices at top pitch over large distances – with the fear of losing their assets in mines and industry to the original tribal people and perhaps the true owners.
I find it even stranger that the protest is happening in a state which was founded on the philosophy of cultural space. Andhra when split from Madras Province, was purely on linguistic lines – with little economic justification. They said “Andhra will starve, they will die in hunger”. Andhra proved them all wrong. With the help of well directed help from the central government Andhra Pradesh has emerged as one of the most progressive states. Why should the same case not apply to Telangana, a state which will be rich in mineral – it can mine its way into progress.

The ultimate decision of “Telengana or no Telengana” should be that of the people of Telengana and not us sitting Delhi, or pondering from Bengal and Gujarat and not even the rest of Andhra Pradesh. That is true democracy to me. Splitting of a state, for the reasons of economic benefits, social justice, preservation of culture or plain better and more accountable governance; is in no way synonymous to dividing the country. Such pseudo nationalism is a farce and fears that we will soon be back to the pre 1857 era of multiple ever-warring states is unfound and almost hilarious. By that logic we should abolish all states and have a monopoly of the center !

True nationalism is constantly reinventing the nation for continuous growth – the thoughts and fears of yesterday will not work in the shaping the future. The fact that there is “politics” and “politicians” who are working behind the scenes should not be the reason to start opposing this or any action. Saying that there is politics behind a government action is synonymous to saying there is profit motive behind a company – so should we start opposing them all? Politics which leads to development is always welcome, look at the ends not the means. In fact, there is a strong case for even more states - which where the very rich and the very poor have been made strange bedfellows. The same fire which cooks food, burns down the house. Depends on how one sees and uses it.

Jai Hind!

anuj · Post by **anuj** » 24 Dec 2009 12:04

Rony wrote: This is called manufacturing hatred, Paki style !

No. Paki's don't don't back there sources and display a sense of superiority in each one of there discussion. This is totally opposite. Telangana's are the inferior one's here. Ask the oppressors, they'll tell you.

Rony wrote:The dude forget to add Nazi- Jew comparision

That's how you counter that claim. Very intellectual BRite might i add.

Rony wrote:Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy is not from coastal Andhra.He is from Rayalaseema, the region which is even more backward than Telangana. There goes the Andhra domination argument !

Do not equal-equal this. You are in bed with rayalaseema, didn't you know?

Rony wrote:That was unwarranted and deeply offensive.

Oh i forgot it sounds very cruel in hindi. I'll quote it in it's original. Every dog has it's day
Fine?

Rony wrote:If the Telangana wants to seperate, it can only be done with rational arguments

The arguments are already there.
Just to the people of andhra, they sound like hate and discrimination (Should i wonder why?)
And that is what you'll have to live with.

Rony wrote:Attitudes like this will not solve any problems but only increase hatred.

NO
Words like UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL take attention away from the real tensions and create hatred. Words like SAMAIKYA ANDHRA take further attention from the real tensions and arguments and create hatred. Organizing mass rallies in seema/coastal without telangana being a part of it while while raising slogans of united andhra create hatred. seema and coastal teaming up and using there democratic advantage against telangana creates hatred. Calling the telangana movement a political ploy creates hatred. All non-telangana politicians doing a flipflop over there stand on telangana creates hatred.

We can talk about hatred all day. Condescend me brother. To calm me. To numb me and purge me now of these thoughts of blaming you.