Telangana Monitor

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Nov 2011 19:44

Narayana Rao wrote:No sir. Assembly resolution accepting the division is not complusory. Only taking opinion of the Assembly is a must as per Art 3. But Parliament can over rule it and take its own decision. If AP Assembly passes a resolution that there shall not be division of AP then also Parliament can proceed with the division of AP. But whether the present and future Parliaments have such a will to do so is the question. Art 3 is formed in respect of a nation which is yet to set its administrative structures in order. Hence the freedom to Parliament and esay method of organisation or reorganisation of states. But such free use of power is possible in a nation where regional feelings of quite high is the question. Most of the regional parties like Akalis. NC, SS, Biju Janatha Dal, DMK/AAIDMK may not accept such conditions which gives total freedom to Delhi with no say to the local/regional parties or State Assemblies.

By the way i have started a new thread of UP division. So let us limit T discussion here and UP discussions there. But i think there may lot of cross postings.

Opinion of Assembly is expressed through Voted Resolution and therefore compulsory. Before introduction of such a Bill in Parl. it is to be referred to the concerned Legislature for expressing opinion within period specified in such presidential reference. Only this part is Mandatory. In case assembly does not give opinion ( for or against) the Bill can be introduced and considered by Parliament and also the Opinion is not binding. Therefore as and when Bill for Telangana is prepared it has to be referred to AP Assembly and even if opinion is against it Parliament can consider it.

I am afraid in UP or in other Nawrthie states such divisions are not much of an emotive issue. This is basically a big emotive issue in erstwhile Madras Presidency area from which all Sawthie states have come. I think people should stop attaching much importance to this type of identity issues then politicians would loose emotive clout. If oliticians ask for this then they should be asked why not make district as autonomous Units , like prefecture with elected head and answering to people's rep at that level only. Centre could fund them all, in any case most of the funds from centre is flowing directly to Districts. Let Panchayati raj flourish truly giving voice and power to people.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Nov 2011 20:52

fanne wrote:I should have clarified, I am not an UPite. So having said that, there is no chicken coming home to roost for me at least.

Apart from that being a mini TSP, the other compelling and more important argument is that UP with it large size is what keeps the Indian Center strong. Even though it has been throwing mixed verdicts in last few elections, the party that will control it will most likely control India. For that burden, I guess UP will pay a higher price for being ungovernable ....Imagine 40 states, each with 12-15 seats, I guess we would have a PM every week. Our greatest bane in history has been our fragmentation, anyone and everyone has come and kicked us. Not anymore.

For you Dasari, I am sorry, if your cause is going to hurt my country overall, I am going to appose you. You want to call me hypocrite, well tough luck, that I was and am always, but then who isn't.

Thanks,
fanne

Fanne ji , care to explain why Harit Pradesh with 60-70% hindu population will become a mini TSP.

And yes our greatest bane might be fragmentation.But why see division of UP as fragmentation.Rather it is devolution of powers for betterment of UP's population.

And if we really think that forming new states creates fragmentation , then shouldn't we just dissolve all the states and let India be governed as a single unit.No need for any CM. One PM is enough.

And yes Telangana and proposed division of UP are two different issues and should not be mixed.Division of UP is a necessity and should be implemented soon.Majority of UP's population is for this division regardless of the region they belong to.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 13 Nov 2011 04:53

No Telangana, hints MMS

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Nov 2011 05:25

^^^ RamaY garu you should post that in total as it has gems in PM's statement.

He said that taking an 'either or' view on the complicated Telangana question might be like 'jumping from the frying pan to the fire' and urged a solution through consensus.

“Telangana is a complicated matter. We want consensus for all shades of opinion. We will see what’s best. We can’t solve it by agreeing to Telangana as this can lead to disturbances in other parts. We will work to find a practical way so that all stakeholders can agree to accept a solution,” the Prime Minister observed.

The Nizamabad MP, Mr Madhu Yashki said, “The statement by the Prime Minister is like breaking news of a death coolly. I will talk to other leaders to proceed on the issue.”

The Samaikyandhra JAC convener, Adari Kishore said, “The Prime Minister, Dr Manmohan Singh should give a clear statement on keeping Andhra Pradesh united. Likewise, Article 3 (which deals with the bifurcation of states) should be removed from the Constitution. Indira Gandhi’s statement in Parliament in 1972 (that no Telangana will be given and that AP will stay united) should be repeated by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in Parliament.”

My take - There will be no firm statement from the government as long as they can keep TDP or Jagan away from T regions. If T region folks really want a state they will neither get under INC or TRS. Period.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 13 Nov 2011 06:52

BJP is in very cautious mode. if it was the 90's then a rising BJP would have jumped in Telangana at the golden chance with a plank for separate state. but that is not the case. the BJP has learned its lessons well. regardless of statements, BJP will not step into T-landmine. they probably have already estimated that the entire AP region has been mined with various explosives.

the separate T project is failing and TSR/KCR knows this. the phase has begun where KCR's ambitions will be managed and the movement will slowly die away. this will also be the last time that separate T will be fought for. the next generation in Telangana will not waste their time with a movement that has already failed twice. a new strategy needed.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 13 Nov 2011 07:16

Has any one seen the web site of Visalandhra mahasabha? It is maintained by Parakalla Prabhakar who conducted meeting in Delhi some months back and two days back they have published a book asking people of Telangana to wake up.

One Vasudeva Reddy, Lawyer yesterday on Gemini Tv debated said that the entire aigtation is without any proper information and and understanding. All political leaders who are cheating people will continue to be in power and the heaven which is being offered is a lie on the face of it. We hear the population of Telangana ebign 4 and 1/2 Cr and some people say it as 4 Cr. On TV when asked the total population of Telangana the Advocate who attendedfor JAC could not even tell it where as Mr Reddy said it is 3.52 Cr for 10 districts and 5 Cr for the remaining 13 disctricts. He said he wish to see the statistics on the basis of population and how this allegation of looting jobs etc is true. Interesting debate

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 13 Nov 2011 20:53

Narayana Rao wrote:Has any one seen the web site of Visalandhra mahasabha? It is maintained by Parakalla Prabhakar who conducted meeting in Delhi some months back and two days back they have published a book asking people of Telangana to wake up.

One Vasudeva Reddy, Lawyer yesterday on Gemini Tv debated said that the entire aigtation is without any proper information and and understanding. All political leaders who are cheating people will continue to be in power and the heaven which is being offered is a lie on the face of it. We hear the population of Telangana ebign 4 and 1/2 Cr and some people say it as 4 Cr. On TV when asked the total population of Telangana the Advocate who attendedfor JAC could not even tell it where as Mr Reddy said it is 3.52 Cr for 10 districts and 5 Cr for the remaining 13 disctricts. He said he wish to see the statistics on the basis of population and how this allegation of looting jobs etc is true. Interesting debate

Debate in Gemini TV went fine but after debate in Andhra Jyothy, TRS (all of them seem to be goondas) attacked this Parakala Prabhakar. Him bringing out facts and farce nature of T movement are not going well with T protagonists.

Parakala Prabhakar is becoming new hero of Visalandhra and united state.

TV9 - TRS activists attacks parakala prabhakar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjekv8xBNWA

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 13 Nov 2011 22:53

ShyamSP wrote: Parakala Prabhakar is becoming new hero of Visalandhra and united state.

Per this wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmala_Sitaraman

He is husband of Nirmala Sitaraman. It is interesting to see he pitching for Visalandhra and she pitching her party line. She is a very articulate spokesperson of BJP.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 14 Nov 2011 23:15

She is quite articulate and earned good name in the media. It is good to know that we still have ladies of her caliber comming up in politics from AP. A change from dirty talking chamcha like Renuka Chowdary.

But I do not see Mrs Nirmala Prabhakar or any BJP leader comming forward and be critical of T demand at present. One of the persons from costal districts who contested as MLA has told me that they find it difficullt to oppose because they are all party to 1989 Kakinada resolution and can not change the stand just like that now. But he and other leaders from Non T areas already told top brass they will not be creating any Jai Andhra demand and agitation now from their end. In any event BJP itself may be more concerned of UP divison plan of Maya than AP division as it has greater stake in UP than in AP.

People should visit Visalandhra site to know some of the arguments for keeping AP United.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 15 Nov 2011 00:38

Narayana Rao wrote:She is quite articulate and earned good name in the media. It is good to know that we still have ladies of her caliber comming up in politics from AP. A change from dirty talking chamcha like Renuka Chowdary.

But I do not see Mrs Nirmala Prabhakar or any BJP leader comming forward and be critical of T demand at present. One of the persons from costal districts who contested as MLA has told me that they find it difficullt to oppose because they are all party to 1989 Kakinada resolution and can not change the stand just like that now. But he and other leaders from Non T areas already told top brass they will not be creating any Jai Andhra demand and agitation now from their end. In any event BJP itself may be more concerned of UP divison plan of Maya than AP division as it has greater stake in UP than in AP.

People should visit Visalandhra site to know some of the arguments for keeping AP United.

What is sacrosanct about 1989[sic] Kakinada resolution which never gave any advantage in AP for them and local leaders still want to stick to it after 22 years (correctly, it is resolution in 1998 for elections)? Their leader LK Advani himself flip-flopped on this including recent flipping from T-Tour statement to new statement after UP issue (i.e can't divide casually without taking consensus). It is better they stop their inanities and act like a National party with interests of all sides. At least good thing is they stopped Jai Andhra farce.

On Parakala Prabhakar, is he back into BJP or doing this as independent person or acting as hidden curve ball from BJP. He is the person that exposed PRP to public so hopefully he will do same on TRS and Congress on T issue.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 15 Nov 2011 09:23

In the meanwhile there is attack on him by TRS goondas. Public attacking on the houses and person on any one opposing division of AP is a common thing and no TV or paper dare to be critical about it.

Dasari · Post by **Dasari** » 17 Nov 2011 20:55

This is a great interview from Mr Nalamotu Chakravarthy, president of Visalandhra Mahasabha. I didn't release until this program that visalandhra mahasabha was started in 1955 to promote the formation of andhra pradesh. But after 1956, it was disbanded as they accomplished their goals. They resurrected this as the existence of visalandhra was threatened by opportunistic politicians and egoistic pseudo intellectuals. Many freedom fighters and people who fought for visalandhra then (most of them are in 80s now) are part of this platform now.

The best part of this Q&A program was that most callers were staunch supporters of separate Telangana. Not only he answered their questions very dispassionately and scientifically, but trounced their stance to the point that some of them may have second thoughts about separation, just after one call. He needs to repeat this across AP to survive visalandhra.

Here are the links to the full program. It is in Telugu and English.

Here is the part1

part2

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 17 Nov 2011 20:59

Dasari,

Here are the clips from the TV9 program that was aired live during the US daytime hours on November 14th.

Part1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbr_OW4rzVU
Part2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnI__3-A ... re=related
Part3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xLMqa0f ... re=related
Part4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGbqvasM ... re=related

I did not even listen yet as I was busy.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 17 Nov 2011 22:34

N.Chakravarthy runs a web site - myteluguroots for many years and has a detailed articles from him on various issues relating to the present Telangana agitation with details back gound information and facts and figures. Of course his conclusions may not be accpetable to T vadis. When he has initially come to Hyderabad to has a press meet he was also attacked by the T Vadis. Unfortunately most of the media is not interested in fact and figures as they are not sensational to report and they are afraid of TRS goondas.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 19 Nov 2011 21:25

I have posted links to some Vedios - With Kuldeep Nayyar, KPS Gill and Sanjay Baru along with N Chakravarthy and P Prabhakar speaking on Telangana demand. One sided of course. There is also a detailed debate between P Prabhakar and our truly overy ground naxal Haragopal is also there.

http://rlindia.blogspot.com/2011/11/som ... emand.html

What is quite strange is the manner in which Haragopal failed even to be critical of the attacks on Prabhakar and his house and family. This clearly shows that civil rights movement is nothing but a pro naxal effort.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Nov 2011 21:14

There seems to be a regional counsel if these news reports are based on some facts. Now there is a debate on NDTV now.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/has-u ... ate-151805

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/after ... nd/878457/

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Nov 2011 20:36

x-posting from Red Menace thread:

devesh wrote:Koteshwar Rao is a "Telugu" name. is the guy from AP? I've seen Varavara Rao walking on Shivam Road in Hyderabad quite a few times. My grandfather used to know him from olden days in academia.

Muppalla wrote: Probably 90% of Naxal leaders (both top rung and mid rung) are from AP. After AP raised multiple police forces these guys moved to places where the law and order is weak. Hence you see them in Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, orissa and WB. Orissa and Chattisgarh are improving though the hit ratio is less in Chattisgarh. West Bengal is so far shit but we have to give Mamta some time. Now she is enemy for these folks and it is a shift from her earlier stand. It will be a different world for WB going forward.

Devesh garu and others, I wrote this aspect several times but just repeating again in the current context.

The SKC's chapter 8 about T becoming Maoist den is not way off after all. I do not see any conspiracy in that statement.

First of all see these names along with their last names. All the top honchos of Naxals are either brahmins or kammas from the coastal AP. There are few Reddys and others too. This "Kishen ji" real name is Mallojula Koteshwara Rao which is extremely famous brahmin last name. Mallavajjula aka Mallojula. I strongly believe Vara vara Rao is also brahmin and may be a settler from coastal areas. The number one guy "Ganapathy" real name is Muppalla Laxmana Rao. Caste wise Muppalla

can be either Kammas or Brahmins and there are some velamas and others too. Very difficult to know. However, he is also a settler from either Krishna or Guntur. I do not know if there is such a village called Muppalla in T districts. The previous hero Cherukuri Azad is a kamma from Nujivid. The lastname Cherukuri is also either Kamma or Brahmin last name. Swami Agnivesh is also a brahmin from Vijayanagaram district and his last name is Vepa. Late Kondapalli Seetaramiah is again from Krishna district. The last name kondapalli is also a brahmin/kamma last name. I am not sure about Gaddar and where is he actually from and the trend points me that probably he is also from some coastal districts.

AP in 60s and 70s had this fashion of being atheist and communist. World athesit conference used to be held in Vijayawada. All these 60 year old Maoist leadership is output of that fashionable era. Other than fashion, there was some Communist history too. The rebellion against Nizam was substantially led by communists and they were successful in fighting the Nizam. The current underground armed rebellion from forests has actual roots in the fight against Nizam. After Nizam had gone, these communists joined Razakar. In modern era they became Leninists, Marxists and now only Maoists.

All these ******** are "settlers" in terms of T lingo. Another common factor to observe is most of them are from Karimnagar which is also hot bet of Telangana sentiment. Now see the latest KCR statement (not yet on google). He never ever makes anything anti-Naxal and he is criticising Mamta for "encounter" (or something to that effect). Observe the plight of T folks where the leadership of this negative stuff is also in the hands of settlers.

The grip of Naxals on rural T is still substantial and they can call the shots though violence and incedents have gone down rapidly. The one group that desperately want T as separate state is Naxals. Others like to have it and not as desperate as Naxals are. It is again ironic to see these Andhra settlers becoming messiahs of Telangana separation and the T folks having faith in them as their liberators.

It is clear that some one or other are pulling a fast one on Telangana with a totally different agendas than what the real Telangana folks want. This is clearly due to confusion among Telangana folks in determining what exactly they want and determining who should be their leaders that can lead the region to growth and prosperity.

I still think a good autonomy with budgets to a T-council along with similar devolution to districts should be tested for a time period before trying a statehood. In the same timeperiod the entire Naxal and Maoist folks and ideology needs to be wiped out of India. Otherwise there is a sure shot disaster.

Added later:
Pendyala Vara Vara Rao - Per wiki, He is from Chinna Pendyala in Warangal but again a brahmin. Not sure if he or his ancestors are again so called "settlers"

As far as Gaddar - his real name is Gummadi Vittal Rao who also claims to be from Medak but I strongly believe they are from either Guntur district or Krishna district. Probably from Kamma caste.

One more worthy called Akkiraju Ramakrishna (another brahmin from coastal region) is still at large.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 25 Nov 2011 20:51

Manda Krishna Madiga of MRP alleged that the koteshwara rao's encounter as fake. Earlier, he had opposed T, on the excuse that 'doras' like KCR, would not do justice to downtrodden castes.

L Ram · Post by **L Ram** » 25 Nov 2011 22:36

Muppalla wrote:x-posting from Red Menace thread:

devesh wrote:Koteshwar Rao is a "Telugu" name. is the guy from AP? I've seen Varavara Rao walking on Shivam Road in Hyderabad quite a few times. My grandfather used to know him from olden days in academia.

Muppalla wrote: Probably 90% of Naxal leaders (both top rung and mid rung) are from AP. After AP raised multiple police forces these guys moved to places where the law and order is weak. Hence you see them in Chattisgarh, Jharkhand, orissa and WB. Orissa and Chattisgarh are improving though the hit ratio is less in Chattisgarh. West Bengal is so far shit but we have to give Mamta some time. Now she is enemy for these folks and it is a shift from her earlier stand. It will be a different world for WB going forward.
Devesh garu and others, I wrote this aspect several times but just repeating again in the current context.

The SKC's chapter 8 about T becoming Maoist den is not way off after all. I do not see any conspiracy in that statement.

First of all see these names along with their last names. All the top honchos of Naxals are either brahmins or kammas from the coastal AP. There are few Reddys and others too. This "Kishen ji" real name is Mallojula Koteshwara Rao which is extremely famous brahmin last name. Mallavajjula aka Mallojula. I strongly believe Vara vara Rao is also brahmin and may be a settler from coastal areas. The number one guy "Ganapathy" real name is Muppalla Laxmana Rao. Caste wise Muppalla can be either Kammas or Brahmins and there are some velamas and others too. Very difficult to know. However, he is also a settler from either Krishna or Guntur. I do not know if there is such a village called Muppalla in T districts. The previous hero Cherukuri Azad is a kamma from Nujivid. The lastname Cherukuri is also either Kamma or Brahmin last name. Swami Agnivesh is also a brahmin from Vijayanagaram district and his last name is Vepa. Late Kondapalli Seetaramiah is again from Krishna district. The last name kondapalli is also a brahmin/kamma last name. I am not sure about Gaddar and where is he actually from and the trend points me that probably he is also from some coastal districts.

AP in 60s and 70s had this fashion of being atheist and communist. World athesit conference used to be held in Vijayawada. All these 60 year old Maoist leadership is output of that fashionable era. Other than fashion, there was some Communist history too. The rebellion against Nizam was substantially led by communists and they were successful in fighting the Nizam. The current underground armed rebellion from forests has actual roots in the fight against Nizam. After Nizam had gone, these communists joined Razakar. In modern era they became Leninists, Marxists and now only Maoists.

All these ******** are "settlers" in terms of T lingo. Another common factor to observe is most of them are from Karimnagar which is also hot bet of Telangana sentiment. Now see the latest KCR statement (not yet on google). He never ever makes anything anti-Naxal and he is criticising Mamta for "encounter" (or something to that effect). Observe the plight of T folks where the leadership of this negative stuff is also in the hands of settlers.

The grip of Naxals on rural T is still substantial and they can call the shots though violence and incedents have gone down rapidly. The one group that desperately want T as separate state is Naxals. Others like to have it and not as desperate as Naxals are. It is again ironic to see these Andhra settlers becoming messiahs of Telangana separation and the T folks having faith in them as their liberators.

It is clear that some one or other are pulling a fast one on Telangana with a totally different agendas than what the real Telangana folks want. This is clearly due to confusion among Telangana folks in determining what exactly they want and determining who should be their leaders that can lead the region to growth and prosperity.

I still think a good autonomy with budgets to a T-council along with similar devolution to districts should be tested for a time period before trying a statehood. In the same timeperiod the entire Naxal and Maoist folks and ideology needs to be wiped out of India. Otherwise there is a sure shot disaster.

Added later:
Pendyala Vara Vara Rao - Per wiki, He is from Chinna Pendyala in Warangal but again a brahmin. Not sure if he or his ancestors are again so called "settlers"

As far as Gaddar - his real name is Gummadi Vittal Rao who also claims to be from Medak but I strongly believe they are from either Guntur district or Krishna district. Probably from Kamma caste.

One more worthy called Akkiraju Ramakrishna (another brahmin from coastal region) is still at large.

From your list i know details about at least one person
1) Kondapalli Seetaramiah. He is a kamma from Gudivada taluk of krishna district. Former CM N.T Rama Rao is a great sympathiser of KS. NTR released KS from Jail in 1994 and lifted the ban on then so called PWG naxallites.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 26 Nov 2011 05:44

One political group which is in "JAC" is New Demacracy which is a Maoist organisation. Now they seems to have relaized that TRS is only looking for political gains in 2014 and ruing their joining of JAC. There were posts earlier given names of TRS leaders who are earlier Naxals. People will remember the TRS " Politburo" mumber killed near Yadairigutta was also a naxals leaders who was involved in the failed land mine attack on CBN. So TRS itself has lot of people from naxal back ground. When Azad was killed few months back the entire T Vadi gang starting from Manda Krishna to Vimalakka and others have attended the funaral and entire TV channels are there as if some great leader died. With this kind of culture in politics we can not expect any future Telangana state to oppose naxals. They will be treated like Dawood in Paki land. May be better because at least Paki media etc do not consider him as a hero but here naxals will be considered as Heros. If you see the justification given to Telangana vadam by Pro Haragopal ( debate link is in my blog rlindia@blogsopt.com) you will find that naxals just modified their ideas that rich are looting poor to Andhra people looting Telangana people and that is the basic argument for the present T agitation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Nov 2011 07:00

Narayana Rao garu. Make that argument as a legal brief. You might be on the something.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 26 Nov 2011 15:17

ramana wrote:Narayana Rao garu. Make that argument as a legal brief. You might be on the something.

Legal brief? Sorry sir I do not get you.

What we have here is one familier method of mobilizing people – find out a small non violent readily, identifiable, minority and demonise them ruthlessly. Tell people someone else evil is responsible for every thing that is bad. Just like Jews in Nazi Germany. Continuous media bombardment of lies, carefully crafted half truths, Selective forgetfulness, distortion of history and facts, discrediting non confirming people, and in the end plain threats followed up by violence. Ruthlessness of agitation methods like orchestrated and spontaneous “suicides" and public but veiled threats of armed resistance are all being used here to achieve their objective. This is how National Socialism came into power.

Can any gurus tell me what is the native place of Vijaya Shanthi our estwhile movie star and MP of TRS. I heard " many things" about her but from what i remember she is also not from Telangana.

L Ram · Post by **L Ram** » 26 Nov 2011 22:20

[/quote]Can any gurus tell me what is the native place of Vijaya Shanthi our estwhile movie star and MP of TRS. I heard " many things" about her but from what i remember she is also not from Telangana.[/quote]
Rajamundry E.G Dist. But she claims that she is from Warangal

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 26 Nov 2011 22:26

so basically, it is an elite faction fight for spoils....

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 26 Nov 2011 22:34

Vijayashanti uses her osey ramulamma persona to project herself as telanganite.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 26 Nov 2011 22:44

The politics between Naxals and INC in AP under YSR was a negotiation. it was a quid pro quo deal. Naxals leave AP out of their attacks. in return AP govt gives them open space to reestablish their networks and gather the resources to wage war outside AP. this was the bargain that they stuck. mutually beneficial for YSR and Naxals.

as part of this deal, Naxals must have realized that supporting EJ activities by taking out their opposition, would put them in good graces of YSR and certain other sections. YSR's death has no unraveled this Mutually Beneficial Alliance (MBA) yet. but the turmoil in AP after YSR has had its effects on Naxals too. the Naxals want Telangana. in this, they will clash with that portion of the AP Coastal elite who don't support Telangana.

I said before that T-movement is like "revolution" in that it will wipe out the penetrating influence of a huge section of the AP elite (in all regions of AP). this will result in a power vacuum most likely. when I said that, I had a lot of things in mind.

first, the movement was started mainly by a disgruntled TDP man who was not getting his share of spoils. INC immediately jumps at the chance and gives him "support". INC even goes to the extent of an "alliance" on the promise of "separate Telangana". what is interesting to me is how did INC so brazenly decide to "support" this cause? the same Coastal networks which are major force behind TDP are also a major force behind INC. did INC think there would be no repercussion from its base in the Coast? I don't think so. I think INC initially gambled that they could easily control KCR. and I do believe that had INC really contributed in filling KCR's coffers, the T movement would have died out long ago. so why did INC not do this? they've been in this business for a long time. they know how to make and unmake enemies with ease. they why did INC fail this time? more importantly, why did INC let the whole thing become so uncontrollable?

there is some part of the puzzle we are missing. the TRS phenomenon could have been easily neutered by giving them their share of spoils long ago. there is some other factor which is keeping INC fromm closing the chapter of this book...

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Nov 2011 00:03

Yep, if KCR was made the CM for 2 years and then ousted on the charges of corruption, then the 'movement' is gone. This is just one way. Dynasty's armory has much wider range of tactics and puppets to neutralise or prop up any element, especially since they are in power at both centre and state.

The unleashing of Manda Krishna on the KCR is an example. It also shows that many puppets and mercenaries can be used to easily scuttle and throtle the movement built around KCR and his family. Dynasty must have several handles on KCR and his family given their recent extortion biz in the name of T. It is to be noted that in all the speeches, KCR almost never uses rude langauge( or lingo) against the dynasty, even when it is clear that they are the makers or breakers of the possibility of seperate state. His ire is reserved for the 'andhrawalas' and the local telangana politicos (especially the clowns in INC). I sense an attitude of lick up and kick down.

Such persons are amenable to threats and rewards. They can easily be leashed by powerful entities and they need powerful maibaaps to play their games. Dynasty is playing both roles in respect of KCR. In short, KCR is already controlled puppet of dynasty. He is switched on and off as and when required. That is the sense I get...

So, why is dynasty not closing this chapter?
-Because it serves as greatest diversion from its misrule.
-Because it keeps the opposition in tenterhooks.
-Because it divides the local INC and keeps them from doing a 'sharad pawar' on dynasty.
-Because it can be used as a re-election carrot for masses, since dynasty has nothing positive to offer.
-Because it can be used to threaten the powerful lobbies in state.
In short, it gives them a handle on several factors. Why close the chapter and lose the handle?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 27 Nov 2011 05:39

Further I think the December 9th was not a well thought out action and it took some time for them to recover from it. Disputes between Chiddu and Bengali Babu ( who was in charge of the situation till that date and who was not present when the decision was initially discussed) and failure to predict the reaction from Non Telangana areas for the division announcement shows they momentorily lost control of the situation. The decision taken mainly due to misinformation by the senior IB offcial wh owas sent to assess the situation in Hyd/AP. NSA lost his job due to that only. Once they realised their mistake slowly they reestablished their control and now slowly the " movement" is back in INC control. 8/9 MP's shouting in Lok Sabha also serve a purpose of not allowing any discussions on Price raise and black money. In two years time the situation will be reassessed and profitable decision will be taken.

But will they be in a position to win anything in AP in 2014. It does look like they are going to get their ass kicked hard by AP people once again. Looking at the level of anger that is there in the AP people Jagan drama and EJ mobalisation will not work for them. May be EVM's are only tools that can save them just like last time.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Nov 2011 05:56

ramana wrote:Narayana Rao garu. Make that argument as a legal brief. You might be on the something.

Please make your argument that T movement rhetoric is inspired by Naxalite type rhetoric in a logical manner.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Nov 2011 06:44

Narayana Rao wrote:Further I think the December 9th was not a well thought out action and it took some time for them to recover from it. Disputes between Chiddu and Bengali Babu ( who was in charge of the situation till that date and who was not present when the decision was initially discussed) and failure to predict the reaction from Non Telangana areas for the division announcement shows they momentorily lost control of the situation. The decision taken mainly due to misinformation by the senior IB offcial wh owas sent to assess the situation in Hyd/AP. NSA lost his job due to that only. Once they realised their mistake slowly they reestablished their control and now slowly the " movement" is back in INC control. 8/9 MP's shouting in Lok Sabha also serve a purpose of not allowing any discussions on Price raise and black money. In two years time the situation will be reassessed and profitable decision will be taken.

But will they be in a position to win anything in AP in 2014. It does look like they are going to get their ass kicked hard by AP people once again. Looking at the level of anger that is there in the AP people Jagan drama and EJ mobalisation will not work for them. May be EVM's are only tools that can save them just like last time.

I agree. Dec 9 seems to be mainly chidu op with the blessings of clown prince. I am making an educated guess. The dynasty perhaps had much bigger plans at that time. The scams had not yet gone public. Italian was larger than life figure. There was no visible opposition to the seperation demand. Even CBN said he left the matter in Italian's hands. In hindsight, that was a blunder. People against the seperation should have made their protests.

Death of YSR, and subsequent attempt of Jagan to succeed the throne by taking control of the party were the challenges before the dynasty.

Also, perhaps there was a plan of creating many smaller states to cut down the regional satraps(even any such potentiality).

So, Chidu may have convinced the dynasty to start with AP. Bengali Babu's absence was timing. They perhaps thought following advantages would accrue from division:
-be the hero in T and get re-elected.
-no one opposed in non-T areas, so no electoral loses.
-eliminate all potential opposition(read CBN) in T. So, T is monopolised politically.
-cut down Jagan and YSR gang.
-cut down the powerful lobbies.
-since AP started the era of linguistic states, breaking it will unravel other states.

We know that Bengali Babu was opposed to it in fear of division of WB. So, his absence was used by Chidu to push for the division by exaggerated intelligence reports.

I guess, they were taken aback by the reaction. Initially, the italian tried to assert her authority, by telling that people should accept her decision as it was taken with national view. So, dynasty had some national plan. But people(even within the party) defied her and talked openly of 'betrayal'. Perhaps, the various lobbies got into action to pressurise and force a rollback. And they succeeded. Perhaps, Bengali Babu refused to do that job. Or perhaps, the lobbies wanted the same person to announce the rollback, who had announced the division. Their power can be gauged from the fact that the same Chidu had to announce rollback.

At this time dynasty had no handle on the situation. Too many factors and things were moving too fast. It took them time to get things under control. Now, they seem to have things in their control.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 27 Nov 2011 07:33

For the sake of our nation I hope not. INC is to be kicked out of AP so that they are short of 33 MP's then have now. AP gone means INC and Italian gang out of power. As on today i do not think they will win in any state level or Lok Sabha elections in AP.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Nov 2011 07:57

Jagan will eventually join or support dynasty, to get relief from CBI.

KCR will support whoever comes to power.

My theory(speculation) on EVMs is: you need to be in power at state to use it. It can be used to 'swing' critical vote share that can prove the difference between winning and losing.

Eventually, to defeat the dynasty in AP, people need to reject them outrightly. Landslide will neutralise EVM. But the dynasty will attempt diversions including activation of T issue. That maybe reason for not closing the chapter on that issue.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 27 Nov 2011 08:29

devesh wrote:The politics between Naxals and INC in AP under YSR was a negotiation. it was a quid pro quo deal. Naxals leave AP out of their attacks. in return AP govt gives them open space to reestablish their networks and gather the resources to wage war outside AP. this was the bargain that they stuck. mutually beneficial for YSR and Naxals

Devesh garu, In most of the topics, you are assuming/thinking that EJs and EJism is the root and reason for everything. I do not think that is true. YSR has several things on his plate and EJ is only one thing and not everything of his doing or undoing is EJ. I mean he is not some thing like "by the EJ, for the EJ and to the EJ".

YSR style manipulation of Naxals was does by previous CMs of AP including Jalagam Vengal Rao. Now Mamta is also doing similar stuff.

Using Naxals and TRS via T-sentiment they created a huge anti-TDP wave in T region and this has nothing to do with YSR-EJ stuff. Irrespective of T sentiment or not, the Telangana elite hate TDP and they consider it as enemy worse than even Nizam. YSR and Sonia utilized it to maximum.

The bottomline is TDP and CBN and if we keep thinkings EJ this and EJ that it is just a distraction. In fact both Sonia and YSR/YSJ will be extremely happy if we keep aligning them with EJ stuff.

See the tango in AP right now. INC, TRS, YSJ are all in cahoots. T-sentiment and the governence be damned and the most important thing is next election. The plot for the next election is any two of INC, TRS and YSJ needs to win and the plotting is around it. Please connect any number of dots and the stuff is in that directions. CBI, ED, even the high courts are all involved in this plot.

Instead of reading this plot, quite often we keep thinking EJ this and EJ that.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 27 Nov 2011 09:52

I am not aware of Ej thinking, but will speculate: they seem to be playing much larger, deeper, bigger and evil game. They may have broad strategies. They have deep pockets. And great many tools of influence. But for short term course of action they are dependent on local or foreign players that are amenable to them. They may prop up and perpetuate such players. But they may not be able to dictate every move of the player. The players may have their own motivations, idiosyncracies, limitations,...etc. For the community that is on hitlist of Ejs and all their players may prove futile errand. What can be done is to obtain a general idea of Ej activities, modus operanda and the final product. There is enough material on such things. It needs to be circulated and made common knowledge. That will put an end to lot of their propaganda through various media.

But the greatest defence and offence is to try and follow one's own religion after learning it from competent person/s.

In hindsight, YSR seems to be a zealot Ej and Jagan seems to be even bigger zealot. Their whole party(new one) seems to be made up of such elements or other corrupts or perverts. The italian also seems to be devout. Vatican is close to italy anyway.

The dynasty has been planting people of a specific creed as state monitors within their party. So, there is favoratism. Ej games were/are one of the core concerns of these players.

IMO, YSR's fate was sealed by Ej activities in Tirupati. That was divine retribution, if there ever was one. People say( as a manner of saying) that the sinner who violates the sanctity of sacred spot, would have his head splintered to thousand pieces. It came true in YSR's case.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 27 Nov 2011 12:20

There is a widely held belief in AP that YSR is in fact died as he tried to encroch on Sacred mountains and his death was a result of this. There was a meeting some years back wherein it was said that anti indian forces divided our nation into areas wherein difforent sets of forces will work to weaken the nation. South said to have maked for EJ activities. The agitaion agiainst the Nuclear Power plant in Tamil Nadu is being spear headed by EJ and Vatican leadership. I had been to North TN twice in the last month. Most of the main road side places are EJ and when I visited Kerala I could hardly find a temple. During Islamic attacks South held the Indic value together as north fought the invaders. Now may be the fight is in South.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 28 Nov 2011 01:18

Muppalla garu,

you are categorically wrong when you say that T-elite hate TDP more than anything else.....that is simply not true. until YSR came to power in 2004 and unleashed KCR, TDP had a good presence in T. trust me, many of the T elites were once part of the TDP. many still are. this "hatred" for TDP is artificially conjured by INC. it didn't exist. T-elite were instrumental in giving support to NTR's rise just as coastal elite were. and since then, TDP has always had a healthy presence of T-elites.

the problem started in the late 90's and early 2000's, when CBN started showing his arrogance. that is when the profit-sharing networks started getting under exclusive control of Coastal Clan based elites. that is the point of divergence where a section of the T-elites starts getting distanced from TDP. YSR astutely observed this and gave a political boost to KCR by endorsing his "separate T" stance. this is when the game decisively changes in favor of INC, and TDP gets shafted.

the coastal clan networks rose during British times and still continues. therefore, they still have a lot of links with the Brit-supported networks including deep contacts with the nationwide INC and pan-global links.

the T-elite don't. it was always crucial for TDP to keep a hold on T-elite, b/c the coastal elite's links go back to an era when the TDP didn't even exist. this wasn't the case with T-elite. had TDP maintained its stronghold in T areas, INC would not have gotten such thumping majorities in 2004 and 2009. YSR realized this long ago. therefore, he neutralized this threat by propping up KCR+TRS.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 28 Nov 2011 06:00

devesh garu,

I am saying the same thing except that I was refering only to CBN's TDP and not from the times of NTR. There were certain flaws that CBN did in terms of keeping "T-elite" cool (shring spoils). His mistakes are like "Rajiv's opening the gates of Ayodya temple". This has unravelled to an extent where TDP just cannot revive in T.

All I am saying is that EJ stuff is not in the scheme of things. It is simply a fight of elites from Reddys, Kammas, Kapus and Velamas at the local level. At the central level INC has got a golden chance to crush purer anti-congressim. If we bring in EJ stuff, we will be missing the actual analysis of the plot at hand.

In my recent visit to T and talking to some of the elite folks ( some are my relatives too), they are even cool to see Jagan winning as opposed to TDP or even KCR. That is the level of hatred towards TDP. Hence the reason for INC modeling on T-INC to launch T-Congress as a regional outfit to counter KCR.

The current plot for AP is while keeping the T without a solution/resolution ensure win of most seats between Jagan, INC and TRS. The TRS as part of NDA is a non-starter though a lot of BJP supporters think it is in the offing unless Congress overall goes less than 120 in 2014.

My fear is that this thread will go to 200 pages

with no split of state and also we will see a coalition of TRS+YSR-J and INC for AP and same in UPA-3.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 28 Nov 2011 06:09

any party which associates with the overt EJ'ism of Jagan and others will pay in the future. they might not think so now, but they will face the heat in the medium and long term. if TRS associates with Jagan and EJs, then it will go down and take the "T-movement" with it. no doubt about it. the T-people themselves will outright eject TRS as soon as they form an alternate alliance, if TRS sides with Jagan.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 28 Nov 2011 07:14

The following article (actually news) is clear vindication of chapter-8 of SKC. Naxals has clear people support in T region and it is not gone. It is only controlled using superior police forces of AP.

http://www.eenadu.net/Pannelsinner.aspx?qry=htm/panel2
(it is all in Telugu. In summary, a large crowd assembled for the funeral of Kishenji in Karimnagar. Along with his brother, Varavara Rao had lit the pyre)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Nov 2011 09:43

Seminar Issue on Hyderabad dated May 2008.
An entire issue for Hyderabad about 18 months before the Dec 9th 2009 decision.