Telangana Monitor

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2012 00:05

Ashok thanks for the history of a prominent community in Andhra Pradesh. BTW only landed gentry have some aversion to Brahmin social order. My family has very long ties with the KCP Ramakrishna and Challa family and others. No issues at all.

Thanks for reminding us about the unnecessary bad blood.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 08 Jan 2012 20:11

devesh wrote:Ashok garu,

I don't doubt that several different groups took part in the fight against the Islamics. but I have a hard time believing that the IA committed mass rape of women. perhaps, that is an issue where Basava is showing his prejudices...either way, the Communist movement ultimately failed. and failed because of two reasons. while their idealism cannot be questioned, they prejudices and biases against the "Hindu" are to be questioned.

also, another issue that he brings up is the the IA forcefully reallocated land to the land owning elites after it was distributed to peasants. this has to be investigated further? to what extent did the Communists distribute land to peasants? and did the IA play a part in reversing that process? these are difficult questions, but answers need to be found.

Devesh garu he is partly right .IA and Sardar Vallabhai Patel did not go soft on the Razakars or the NIzams muslim aristrocrats or middle class.The deshmukhs were spared and land was returned because since Hyderabad was native India and best way to get a foothold in Hyderabad state was to take the deshmukhs into confidence while they build the adminstrative structure.The deshmukhs did not have a easy even later they soon became the target of assasinations by naxals esp Velamas.Before Jalagam Vengal Rao came to power most Velama families shifted to Hyd from the hinterland due to this

Hope this helps

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 08 Jan 2012 23:36

yup, I've heard of the stories of Velamas moving en masse from their rural strongholds to Cities. many are so scared that they've never gone back after that.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 09 Jan 2012 04:45

Ashok Gottipati wrote:
Sir Kammas actually enjoy great relationships with other communities except Brahmins(for whom they have extreme disdain historically partly brahmins fault acc to our elders hurting ego's is a very bad idea). In Telangana they enjoy particularly good relations with gowda's,yadavs and Telangana Reddies (employer-employee)Most yadavs and gowdas benefitted most using Kamma during the real estate boom.Prior to this Telangana ruckus they also had co-rdial relations with Velama's .NTR came to power because he had charisma and the Kamma's organizational capabilities .

The commutiny with whom relations badly soured after the rise of NTR is with Rayalseema Reddies and this caused a Reddy-Kamma rivalry in the political scene of AP.Post Y.S.R demise and KCR's Telangana spectre the rivalry turned to co-operation.Kiran Kumar Reddy and CBN have great chemistry this can be seen during acceptance of Nagam's resignation ,Keeping Botsa Satyanarayan in dock using liquor syndicate raids or even during the sakula jannula samme .Most importantly during the no-confidence motion in Assembly CBN actually is increasing KKR grip on Congress.Sir,KKR and Balakriishna were classmates.

Right now their target is KCR and they are preparing for him a political coffin using social media and politics .See the nagarjuna film Rajanna in that film in that light more films to follow in that genre about uprising against feudals in Telangana

I disagree with the generalizations of Kammas having greater relationship with most of the communities except Brahmins. In addition, in the above post you are mixing up " actual relations between communites " with " electoral coalitions of TDP that are built to win elections ".

In reality, Kammas does not have good realtions with coastal Reddys too apart from the Rayalaseema Reddys. Take the case of factional fights between Kasu Brahmananda Reddy clan with Kodela Siva Prasad Rao clan. This has nothing to do with TDP Vs. INC. This fights pre-dates to 1950s and 1960s in Jecharam/Narsaraopet areas of Guntur district. An entire generation of Kasu family is wiped out. Similarly the relationship between Kapus and Kammas was never good and their rivalry is not some recent phenomenon and this is also a 100 year phenomenon.

I do not see Kammas having any great relations with any other forward castes other than business and need based relations. They definitely have good relations with Backward classes and that is why TDP is surviving and thriving too

Even in case of Brahmins, they are all Hindus (minus extreme few) and they still call a brahmin priest to solemnize a marriage or any religious/auspicious occassion. Even in this case there is no hatered. There are some extremes in Krishna/Guntur districts where some Kammas took up priesthood. But when we discuss there we have to take how is the majority behaving and not the extremes.

One has to first realize and admit that Kammas are the game changes of Telugus or AP history post independence. Either out of jealousy or for some other reasons if we do not admit to this, I am afraid the analysis will be flawed. They have suddely produced a 100 equivalant to Ambanis in India. Their growth is synonymous with the growth of Indian economy and could be called as happening community of modern India.

Here is how I understand and deduce.

Kammas are one of the warrior classes of Telugus along with Reddys,Velamas Kapus (broadly put as there could be some more in the BCs). However,for whatever the reasons (Historical analysis needed) they are are left out of the elite structure of the day where as Reddy and mostly Kapus were Munusuf/Patel while Brahmins were always karanam/patwaris. Velamas and T-Reddys being the Nizam's buddies enjoyed wealth from a different system. What I mean is inspite of collapse of kingdoms and later day British rule Kammas were left out of the system. Being left out of the system, property aquisition in terms of land, cattle etc. was also not their hands as compared to other warrior classes. The resentment against Brahmins in the Kammas psyche is probably because of they are the ones who decided on the social order in those days. The egos were hurt badly over generations.

Hence in the social order they have become niether like all the forward castes not purely backward classes. Few here few there was the situation. However, probably the "warrior blood" present in the veins made them fight back against the system using all sorts of weapons and they succeeded.

(1) By hook or crook destroy the social structure - Join Communists, Naxals, British/Justice party, atheists or become Christians and it does not matter but the end goal is to destroy it. It is this process where some stallwarts even pursued Buddhist studies. Everything is to oppose the social structure dominated by Brahmins. Most of the catholics in Vijayawada region are Kammas. The Layolas and Stella Marris, Nirmala schools are all Kammas.

(2) Build wealth - Sheer hardwork and anywork is not bad. The community moved from lease farming to owning vast farm lands. Most of the riskiest business such as middlemen trade, trucking etc. are taken up by the community. The hardworking nature is the reason for this community to move into deeper Telangana. The agricultural lands in the so called "Andhra/settler lands" in districts such as Nizamabad are owned by them. From trading, milk biz to leasing lands and then owning lands to asset building is the sequence occured. A generation sacrificed to spend everything on education put the next-gen to build modern businesses and beyond.

(3) Keep the community united. The guy might be a christian, communist or a pure and devout Shiva bakt but if you are a kamma then you are the first friend and "everyone and everyother reason" is next. The best networked buddy-buddy system was built and I do not think this is prevalent as much in any other community. This is the asset that makes anyone jealous and also a great reason for the growth. The first thing to do is find if the guy whom I met is a Telugu and then if he is a Kamma or not

The wealth manufacturing involved both carrot and stick. Either giveup or we takeover. Pretty cut throat in dealing and wheeling and they have beaten out the best of the next best.

Added later:

Andhra Pradesh is a state led by one or other forward caste and it did not change like a UP or a Bihar. The SCs or the vast BCs can only negotiate a better deal for their life and growth under one forward caste or other but not in a leadership role. So far the story is Reddy + Brahmin (to an extent) + SCs and the other is Kamma+BCs. There are others based on electoral negotiation has gone one way or otherway but not a solid part of social coalition.

The 15+ years of TDP rule between 1983 and 2004 has really changed the social/economic landscape of AP.
(1) The general power of Reddys decreased.
(2) Kammas are the new leaders. Their rural and urban land ownership has increased and the asset values have skyrocketed.
(3) Brahmins exited from everything as they moved away from rural areas by selling off whatever they had. Mostly into services and 9 to 5 jobs. No more political or anyother clout. (Anti-Brahmin is a waste of time going forward as the fight will be just between the erstwhile warriors

)

Warriors are warriors and they have to fight

. In modern day, they fight using money and ballot rather than swords and knives. Currently it is gang-up of Reddys, Kapus and Velamas against Kammas. The gangup is like a loose coalition(s). The amount of hate against Lagadapati or Kavuri or CBN is not the same when it comes to YSR/Jagan or any other Andhra leaders. Again this is all a forward caste phenomenon. This does not mean that TDP is completely gone from T and it may revive too. We have T-Reddy tenants in our house in Medak district. Very nice folks and they likes Jagan and according to him he is a prince. Also, imagine Nagam Janardhan Reddy saying that he has no issues to join Jagan provided he support T. Similarly even KCR has no big problem to join Jagan. Let Jagan make some noise in favor of T and I will bet there won't be any anti-Jagan stiff by TRS like they did to CBN.

The total politics of AP since 2004 - It is a mission by both forward caste(non-Kamma) coalitions of AP and by the central INC to keep TDP away from power. Any analysis at the end will lead to the same conclusion. But things are changing as people are fedup. It is possible now that TDP could revive and return to power.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Jan 2012 05:57

I could be wrong on this but IMVHO, at least in T regions, the Brahmins had no political power base even as far back as 2 or 3 or 4 generations ago. a very few were lucky to get teaching jobs or small communities like Karanams became involved in a specialized field. other than that, the political power brokers have always been the Reddys and Velamas in T. in recent times, other communities like Kammas and Kapus have come up. in the present situation, there is no such thing as a "brahmin" power base. most are simply involved in salaried jobs and IT-vity....

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 09 Jan 2012 06:11

One of the most badly managed PR things is the Kamma buddy system. They behave as if other do not matter. Hence bad feeling towards them. Further the too oppertunist behaviour and too much power greed shown by the CBN ( allied with Commis then with BJP and NDA lost again with Commies and abandon united AP and join with TRS now new formule called two eye formule) with utter disregard to the creation of bad image and unreliable person name also hurt their chances. Further the too high handed behaviour with employees is also one of main problems CBN had and will have. I do not see any change in his behaviour.

He may win in 2014 but no one is confident which way he will go with his MP's in Delhi power equations.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 09 Jan 2012 10:23

I disagree with the generalizations of Kammas having greater relationship with most of the communities except Brahmins. In addition, in the above post you are mixing up " actual relations between communites " with " electoral coalitions of TDP that are built to win elections ".

In reality, Kammas does not have good realtions with coastal Reddys too apart from the Rayalaseema Reddys. Take the case of factional fights between Kasu Brahmananda Reddy clan with Kodela Siva Prasad Rao clan. This has nothing to do with TDP Vs. INC. This fights pre-dates to 1950s and 1960s in Jecharam/Narsaraopet areas of Guntur district. An entire generation of Kasu family is wiped out. Similarly the relationship between Kapus and Kammas was never good and their rivalry is not some recent phenomenon and this is also a 100 year phenomenon.

Narsaraopte is an anomaly sir it was a part of Rayalseema which used to extend until Ongole and Narsaraopet area previously and Rayalseema is simply Rayalseema.The best example of Coastal Kamma-Reddy co-operation can be seen with Anaparthi reddies(they are the richest of all reddy clans)since last 150 years tobacco trading with Burma ,Rice mills and even monkey businesses during World war 2 from Kakinada port(the british used to make us supply hashish to japanese troops).Even when Nellore was a part of Rayalseema there was roaring business between the two communities even now CBN and KKR are doing tango to keep Jagan and KCR in dock and it seems there already is some sort of internal understanding

I do not see Kammas having any great relations with any other forward castes other than business and need based relations. They definitely have good relations with Backward classes and that is why TDP is surviving and thriving too[/b

]
For an outsider it looks that way but actually the community could not even have survived a second with that attitude.Kammas would have met the fate of the brahmins in south India if we really had that attitude

Even in case of Brahmins, they are all Hindus (minus extreme few) and they still call a brahmin priest to solemnize a marriage or any religious/auspicious occassion. Even in this case there is no hatered. There are some extremes in Krishna/Guntur districts where some Kammas took up priesthood. But when we discuss there we have to take how is the majority behaving and not the extremes.

Pelli muhurtas which are kept by Brahmins are verified by sending them to Kammas in guntur who have an idea of priesthood

One has to first realize and admit that Kammas are the game changes of Telugus or AP history post independence. Either out of jealousy or for some other reasons if we do not admit to this, I am afraid the analysis will be flawed. They have suddely produced a 100 equivalant to Ambanis in India. Their growth is synonymous with the growth of Indian economy and could be called as happening community of modern India.

Here is how I understand and deduce.

Sir,actually the boom started in 1850's itself.Trading rice and tobacco first later cotton during the American civil war.After that enabling Sir Aurthur cotton to build Anaicuts in Krishna and Godavari.In Guntur it started with a tobacco boom.Where as in TN where Kamma's have aristrocratic blood it started in Coimbatore.Education was used as a prime Enabler.As far as Industries are concerned KCP group was found in 1942.Andhra sugars in 1947 the rise is not sudden sir it had 150 years of sheer hardwork ,planning realpolitk and battles in it.

Kammas are one of the warrior classes of Telugus along with Reddys,Velamas Kapus (broadly put as there could be some more in the BCs). However,for whatever the reasons (Historical analysis needed) they are are left out of the elite structure of the day where as Reddy and mostly Kapus were Munusuf/Patel while Brahmins were always karanam/patwaris. Velamas and T-Reddys being the Nizam's buddies enjoyed wealth from a different system. What I mean is inspite of collapse of kingdoms and later day British rule Kammas were left out of the system. Being left out of the system, property aquisition in terms of land, cattle etc. was also not their hands as compared to other warrior classes. The resentment against Brahmins in the Kammas psyche is probably because of they are the ones who decided on the social order in those days. The egos were hurt badly over generations.

Hence in the social order they have become niether like all the forward castes not purely backward classes. Few here few there was the situation. However, probably the "warrior blood" present in the veins made them fight back against the system using all sorts of weapons and they succeeded.

(1) By hook or crook destroy the social structure - Join Communists, Naxals, British/Justice party, atheists or become Christians and it does not matter but the end goal is to destroy it. It is this process where some stallwarts even pursued Buddhist studies. Everything is to oppose the social structure dominated by Brahmins. Most of the catholics in Vijayawada region are Kammas. The Layolas and Stella Marris, Nirmala schools are all Kammas.

(2) Build wealth - Sheer hardwork and anywork is not bad. The community moved from lease farming to owning vast farm lands. Most of the riskiest business such as middlemen trade, trucking etc. are taken up by the community. The hardworking nature is the reason for this community to move into deeper Telangana. The agricultural lands in the so called "Andhra/settler lands" in districts such as Nizamabad are owned by them. From trading, milk biz to leasing lands and then owning lands to asset building is the sequence occured. A generation sacrificed to spend everything on education put the next-gen to build modern businesses and beyond.

(3) Keep the community united. The guy might be a christian, communist or a pure and devout Shiva bakt but if you are a kamma then you are the first friend and "everyone and everyother reason" is next. The best networked buddy-buddy system was built and I do not think this is prevalent as much in any other community. This is the asset that makes anyone jealous and also a great reason for the growth. The first thing to do is find if the guy whom I met is a Telugu and then if he is a Kamma or not

The wealth manufacturing involved both carrot and stick. Either giveup or we takeover. Pretty cut throat in dealing and wheeling and they have beaten out the best of the next best.

The origins of the Kammas as a Jati and Caste are obscure but they were liutenants ,generals and power brokers in the vijaynagara and Kakatiya kingdoms prior to that they were associated with the Chola's but the most probable thing is they had some sort of Buddhist roots this is certain because a streak of atheist/agnostic current still runs strong underneath in the community pscyhe this is the reason why some might have been attracted to communism.

Sir the kamma "Chowdary" is used to denote Munsifs in the coastal districts .This was given by the british when they implemented the Ryotwari system in Madras presidency

Andhra Pradesh is a state led by one or other forward caste and it did not change like a UP or a Bihar. The SCs or the vast BCs can only negotiate a better deal for their life and growth under one forward caste or other but not in a leadership role. So far the story is Reddy + Brahmin (to an extent) + SCs and the other is Kamma+BCs. There are others based on electoral negotiation has gone one way or otherway but not a solid part of social coalition.

The 15+ years of TDP rule between 1983 and 2004 has really changed the social/economic landscape of AP.
(1) The general power of Reddys decreased.
(2) Kammas are the new leaders. Their rural and urban land ownership has increased and the asset values have skyrocketed.
(3) Brahmins exited from everything as they moved away from rural areas by selling off whatever they had. Mostly into services and 9 to 5 jobs. No more political or anyother clout. (Anti-Brahmin is a waste of time going forward as the fight will be just between the erstwhile warriors )

Warriors are warriors and they have to fight . In modern day, they fight using money and ballot rather than swords and knives. Currently it is gang-up of Reddys, Kapus and Velamas against Kammas. The gangup is like a loose coalition(s). The amount of hate against Lagadapati or Kavuri or CBN is not the same when it comes to YSR/Jagan or any other Andhra leaders. Again this is all a forward caste phenomenon. This does not mean that TDP is completely gone from T and it may revive too. We have T-Reddy tenants in our house in Medak district. Very nice folks and they likes Jagan and according to him he is a prince. Also, imagine Nagam Janardhan Reddy saying that he has no issues to join Jagan provided he support T. Similarly even KCR has no big problem to join Jagan. Let Jagan make some noise in favor of T and I will bet there won't be any anti-Jagan stiff by TRS like they did to CBN.

The total politics of AP since 2004 - It is a mission by both forward caste(non-Kamma) coalitions of AP and by the central INC to keep TDP away from power. Any analysis at the end will lead to the same conclusion. But things are changing as people are fedup. It is possible now that TDP could revive and return to power.

NTR's rule was a game changer he demolished old political/adminstrative and social structures.This brought a significant improvement in the life of the common poor.His socio-economic policies also significantly cut the naxal recruitment grounds.

Regarding the present political climate:
Right now the actual game is finish KCR as a political entity and solve the Telangana problem completely .If the situation is such that Telangana has to be given make it such that KCR and his caste have no future in the politics of Telangana (this can be done as there is latent resentment against the velamas which can be fanned mostly historical)using the social media.Enable the backward castes to come to power in case of a separate Telangana state (it is a win-win for both ).Right now finishing Jagan is the priority for
KKR and CBN.This I can say today i can say something tomorrow based on tomorrows political climate

Sir,the center of gravity for Kammas is Tamil Nadu,DMK-AIDMK the Kammas get what they want in TN.Its power without responsibility in TN

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 09 Jan 2012 10:39

what do you mean they can get what they want in TN? I don't understand that part.

also, Ashok saar, be mindful that BRF has all kinds of people. when you say "if we were that stupid", implying stupidity to a certain group, there is bound to be hard feelings. I don't think you meant it negatively there, but the way you said it should be looked at.

just friendly suggestion.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 09 Jan 2012 15:25

Ashok Gottipati wrote:The origins of the Kammas as a Jati and Caste are obscure but they were liutenants ,generals and power brokers in the vijaynagara and Kakatiya kingdoms prior to that they were associated with the Chola's but the most probable thing is they had some sort of Buddhist roots this is certain because a streak of atheist/agnostic current still runs strong underneath in the community pscyhe this is the reason why some might have been attracted to communism.

Sir the kamma "Chowdary" is used to denote Munsifs in the coastal districts .This was given by the british when they implemented the Ryotwari system in Madras presidency

As I mentioned before Kamma and Velama caste names have geographical appellation. Kammas are from Karma rastram (of Buddhist times) and Velamas are from Velnadu (of Chola-Chalukya times). They were Kapu Nayakas from those regions which are roughly in Krishna-Godavari Delta and Higher lands. Majority Reddys were also Kapus who started with Reddy title but slowly title became caste after title acquired a Royal status with Vema Reddy of Addanki.

Although their name has buddhist name doesn't mean there was Jati (caste and associations) as such before roughly 1000 AD as only after that histories of those castes are recorded loosely.

Sir,the center of gravity for Kammas is Tamil Nadu,DMK-AIDMK the Kammas get what they want in TN.Its power without responsibility in TN

In Tamilnadu, Kammas of Western TN are enterprising bunch. In North TN they are into traditional trades and agriculture and are extension of Southern AP. Southern TN Kammas are into Politics (Vaiko for example) but still are backward.

So I'm not sure what you mean by Center of gravity is TN. Their center of gravity has always been K-G delta from where they derive wealth and political power.

Ashok Gottipati wrote:Regarding the present political climate:
Right now the actual game is finish KCR as a political entity and solve the Telangana problem completely .If the situation is such that Telangana has to be given make it such that KCR and his caste have no future in the politics of Telangana (this can be done as there is latent resentment against the velamas which can be fanned mostly historical)using the social media.Enable the backward castes to come to power in case of a separate Telangana state (it is a win-win for both ).Right now finishing Jagan is the priority for
KKR and CBN.This I can say today i can say something tomorrow based on tomorrows political climate

KKR and CBN may do tango to finish KCR but I don't think finishing Jagan is in their agenda. Jagan and Congress rivalry (if there is such thing) is good for TDP. Only KCR is extreme irritant for TDP but they seemed to have found a way to deal with KCR looking at their recent Yatra episodes.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 09 Jan 2012 15:51

ShyamSP wrote:
Ashok Gottipati wrote:The origins of the Kammas as a Jati and Caste are obscure but they were liutenants ,generals and power brokers in the vijaynagara and Kakatiya kingdoms prior to that they were associated with the Chola's but the most probable thing is they had some sort of Buddhist roots this is certain because a streak of atheist/agnostic current still runs strong underneath in the community pscyhe this is the reason why some might have been attracted to communism.

Sir the kamma "Chowdary" is used to denote Munsifs in the coastal districts .This was given by the british when they implemented the Ryotwari system in Madras presidency
As I mentioned before Kamma and Velama caste names have geographical appellation. Kammas are from Karma rastram (of Buddhist times) and Velamas are from Velnadu (of Chola-Chalukya times). They were Kapu Nayakas from those regions which are roughly in Kishrna-Godavari Delta and Higher lands. Majority Reddys were also Kapus who started with Reddy title but slowly title became caste after title acquired a Royal status with Vema Reddy of Addanki.

Although their name has buddhist name doesn't mean there was Jati (caste and associations) as such before roughly 1000 AD as only after
that histories of those castes are recorded loosely.

Sir,the center of gravity for Kammas is Tamil Nadu,DMK-AIDMK the Kammas get what they want in TN.Its power without responsibility in TN
In Tamilnadu, Kammas of Western TN are enterprising bunch. In North TN they are into traditional trades and agriculture and are extension of Southern AP. Southern TN Kammas are into Politics (Vaiko for example) but still are backward.

So I'm not sure what you mean by Center of gravity is TN. Their center of gravity has always been K-G delta from where they derive wealth and political power.

On the peripheral it looks K-G delta but actually TN is where they derive majority of wealth and power from.They also enjoy great prestige among the TN populace as enterpreneurs and capitalists who enable opprotunities to all people and another source of prestige being one of the leading stalwarts in the self-respect movement and Tamil nationalism . Also the first Kamma educational instiututions and industries all were started in Coimbatore and TN not in AP.In tamil nadu which ever party is in power DMK or AIDMK the Kammas get their jobs done with VIP treatment not the case in AP (where lot of power lifting must be done).Honestly Kammas contributed more to Tamil Nadu well being in the form of philanthropy since the last 100 years than in AP.In AP the philantrophic part is being slowly started Basava Tarakam Hospital ,L.V Prasads eye institute where the only institutions started here.More are in the pipeline if the state is united.In the meanwhile lot of work is being done in Anantpur to get the community there out of the rut

ugandhar · Post by **ugandhar** » 10 Jan 2012 09:33

Regarding Kamma people, back in 1999-2002 in my college, most of the guys from kamma community were committed to untouchability towards SC/ST people (They did not talk nor did sit beside SC/ST people). I found that this was common in Guntur/Krishna districts colleges & universities. They had bad relations with almost all other communities. Don't know how prevalent that is right now in colleges.
College was in Narasaraopeta, Guntur Dist.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Jan 2012 06:42

Two people of Chiru gang joined the AP cabinet and with this the sale of PRP to Congress is almost complete. Only giving cabinet ministry to Chiru is now pending. This is one of the most shameful chapter in AP political history and can by compared to what Nadendla Bhaskar Rao did so long back. Chiru and his gang proved how committed these "social Justice" gangs are to people. Entire political activity of PRP is sale of polotical power. It is widely believed YSR paid some 100 Crs to Chiru to start the party. Ticket were sold at the time of 2009 elections and Allu Aravind ( Chiru brother in law) is said to be person behind sale - just like movie distribution. Now there is sale of MLA seats won. Without any shame Chiru sold his caste power and his movie hero following for money. Big big lesson for people - Never vote for movie heros unless they are regular political leaders and never vote for "social Justice criminal gangs"

With the ministry expansion kept on hold Telangana gangs in Congress started meetings and demands. KCR trying to start agitations afresh and not so forcefully as of now. But lot of water has passed through the moosi and the CM is more confident today than at the time of start of Sakalajanula Samme which is now widely acknowledged as a failure

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 21 Jan 2012 11:52

so the Telangana guys in Congress are "gangs"? what about the powerful movers and shakers in INC from Coastal areas? they are "honorable ministers", while the T guys are "gangs".....must we fall for such categorizations?

YSR+YSJ are like a Deccan Sultanate who rose to power with blessings of Delhi Mughal Durbar. but Mughal durbar got suspicious of growing power and neutralized the elder machiavelli. the chota is trying to step into the elder's shoes. so chota is Golkonda Deccan sultanate. the fight is between Mughaliyas and Deccan Sultanate.

even in the modern pov, this fight will end of weakening both sides. INC will end up snubbing a lot of feathers. Jagan is too small a fish to effect Mughals on national level, but he is capable of inflicting considerable damage at the local level. INC, in trying to beat him, will make its own enemies.

as for PRP, it's a useless side show. history will acknowledge it as nothing more than another proxy/pawn in INC's game. but PRP story definitely teaches people a few things and these lessons will not be forgotten.

2G vs. Jagan is a fight of attrition that will weaken and create enemies for both sides...

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 21 Jan 2012 16:34

INC people are all gang members for loot only sir. There is nothing else in their conduct anywhere in AP or elsewhere suggests something else. There is no hon'ble people in INC at present. Some like PC may be more polished than others like Kalmadi. That is all.

Bit I wonder if there is going to be any 2GvsJagan thing. It may be all for media consumption. Jagan will be controlled just like Mulayam and Maya with CBI and he already said that he will support UPA in Delhi after elections in 2014 where INC hope for a multi cornered fight in AP which will ensure its victory. Evengilical interests will ensure that Sonia and Jagan are in the same side after elections. May be his role is that of Chiru in 2009. But I feel people now see throgh that drama and INC will be in for a big big drubbing in 2014 in AP.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 21 Jan 2012 18:44

If one looks at AP congress a kapu vs reddy intra party rivalry is being encouraged so that no overly dominating leaders are produced.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 21 Jan 2012 22:20

^^^
makes sense. after YSR, 2G won't taken any chances on another local guy who might become dominant. they will make sure that no other person can ever dominate the AP Congress like YSR did. this is the same politics that IG played in the early 70's.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 22 Jan 2012 05:16

In fact the power of YSR may be due to EJ connection with Sonia and his "collection" and "remittence" activity. Now Kapu and Reddy groups are to be managed in AP so that the respective numarical and monitory power will help it. But it is quite difficult for congress to repeat 2004/9 as there is already strong anti incumbency factor and a general feeling that the congress has destroyed the state for its political games on Telangana. To cover that Jagan and TRS will be used to divide anti congress votes and after elections they will join back with Congress. They have huge amounts of good on KCR and EJ connection with Jagan to make them jump the way they want. EJ factors also will help.

Internal famility issues like one with Jr NTR ( HariKrishna's son and film hero) making him - the only charismatic and some what capable ( unlike Balakrishna - Jr NTR can at least speak effectively in public) person from NTR family being cast aside and kept out of every thing will damage TDP. They need every advatage they can get in 2014. But there is a problem of surprising acts of short sighted stupidity of CBN - 3rd front drama changing ideas on Telangana in 2009 - pathatic ticket distribution in 2004 and total neglect of farmers in 2004. He has to manage the show much better in any general elections otherwise there may not be any TDP left.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 22 Jan 2012 09:00

TDP is in a dilemma. CBN has no valid successor. NTR Jr will find it hard to replicate his grandfather's magic. AP has shown a peculiar trend of discarding what is considered "been there done that". even in changing govts, after 2 terms, the reigning party receives a spectacular thumping. in all likelihood, INC is likely to receive the same kind of thumping in '14.

ever since '71, AP has been jumping from one "earthquake" after another. Jai Telangana, Jai Andhra, NTR's rise, NTR deposed, CBN the new "star" of India, then YSR the new "mass leader", etc etc. if ever there was an example of a people who can't seem to pinpoint on a certain thought and stick to it, then AP surely falls in that category. it's almost like the people jump at any chance they can get to have a "star" and then either naturally or by other happenings he is brought down to nothing. and the cycle starts all over again.

IMO, this is a result of not having a solid "ideology" on which to put peoples' money. Telugus can't seem to be able to produce a lasting "star" that is more than just a passing fad. constant rise and fall of seemingly spectacular "movements"/"person" is something peculiar and also unnerving. it's easy to manipulate a population with such history.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 22 Jan 2012 09:52

The congress might not be expecting much of a win in AP.It will wait until the UP elections are over if it has a favourable mandate in UP they will bifurcate AP people be damned .IF the UP win is not favourable then they will straighten the AP state machinery and get their act together in AP.A kapu vs Reddy rivalry is pretty stupid because both will erode Congress vote bank.

TDP machinery and Kamma's seem to back CBN they know he is not the best of characters but he is the most cunning of the current lot

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 22 Jan 2012 21:53

As per the news reports the entire rule in AP is now in the hands of G N Azad. As chairman of the Co ordination committee he is now deciding everything for AP.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 24 Jan 2012 11:41

xpost from Elections thread

Muppalla wrote:
ShyamSP wrote:Modi to be BJP's PM candidate for 2014 ?

Indeed a big news. BJP can project Modi development vs Congress corruption. Media and Congress will keep bringing stale news of Modi which people would ignore.

Main issue still is AP from where they (BJP and TDP) need to flush out Congress. Currently they still are at each other leaving no effective non-Congress unity. May be it is part of the design to rope in TRS into BJP fold.
The strategy for AP for BJP is just hang on to "we will give Telangana at any cost". But will they be able to give or not depends on situation at that time and based on support of allies and common minimum program of the new NDA.

From an electoral perspective they are planning to steal few seats from TRS. No matter what it is TDP Vs Jagan in SA region and it is TRS Vs Rest (TDP is rising too) in T region. As BJP has no plan for AP in the messy situation there, if they can steal Five seats from TRS that will be a bonus where you have complete loss of whatever was existing.

It all depends upon what kind of s-h-i-t mixture that congress will brew in the next two years in AP. It has reached an unpredictable level.

Soon after encouraging subregionalism, Congress is going after caste-ism creating divisions within Congress on the basis on caste.
LINK

This could be strategy to make caste overwhelm regionalism - screw Telangana increase your caste demography by being united across regions - Kapus and Reddys numerically lose in case of division.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Jan 2012 18:37

^^^^
As I wrote in very early pages of this thread, caste is primary mover-shaker behind T movement. T-sentiment is just a catalyst to get more support and votes. In T region inspite of all the charming T movement, it is a serious fact that Reddys in T are no way interested in TRS and also TDP.

Let me give an example. The localitiy where we bought home is build on lands sold by a very big and rich Reddy family. Close friends to our family. He is leading a large crowds whenever requred for the T movement. Suddenly when Jagan did his first rally/protest in Nizamabad, he collected about few thousands of crowd to there. Reddys in T are having a huge solidarity towards Jagan. Period.

In the current fluid situation, I still see the split of Reddys+SCs/STs = Jagan and INC; kammas+BCs=TDP and Velamas+remaining Tsentiment = TRS.
In SA region, Reddys=Jagan; SCs=Jagan/INC; STs=INC; BCs=TDP (some goes to Jagan); I still don't see Kapus going with congress though it is trying desperately. They will be split between TDP and Jagan and INC. They will go by candidates and I still think lesser towards TDP.

If T movement gets watered down in the way it is now, caste will rise and that is what INC is cooking to create an equal fight.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 24 Jan 2012 18:45

Mupalla sir,There is a Kapu vs Reddy war inside congress.In the event of elections the local reddy businessman will not coperate with Botsa.Already cleavages are being noticeable in Vizag the gavara and reddies will pull botsa by enabling TDP despite their congress sympathies.The congress high command does not seem to care much for AP

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 25 Jan 2012 06:23

I wonder Congress can manage to create a caste based political system in AP where the educational levels are quite high. It will try but the anti congress feeling is quite high as of now and it will not come down if the things continue as they are. They will pay for their misdeeds in 2014.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Jan 2012 06:47

The caste combos heavily favor the congress. No doubt about that. ENtire percentage points in the population have had their souls saved besides, and have been forged into one loyal and determined voting bloc in past decade. With each passing year, nay month, the INC in AP becomes ever harder to beat until I fear, AP will become a Maharashtra w/o the benefit of a fig-leaf NCP opposition also. A situ in which INC can never lose come what may.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 25 Jan 2012 08:16

Narayana Rao wrote:I wonder Congress can manage to create a caste based political system in AP where the educational levels are quite high. It will try but the anti congress feeling is quite high as of now and it will not come down if the things continue as they are. They will pay for their misdeeds in 2014.

I hope you are kidding right. If anyone thinks that caste based crap is more in UP or Bihar they are 100% wrong. The highest levels of caste based crap is actaully in AP and probably a top seeded state. This is true even if this state is divded into two. Only thing is Telangana and Andhra will compete from Top seeded Vs second seeded. Probably Andhra will defeat the backward Telangana even in this negative thingy too

Regarding educated and caste you just totally wrong. Sorry for being blunt.

TANA (Telugu association of North America) that is filled with well educated doctors etc., is first split into two. One for Reddys and one for Kammas. I don't even remember the second ones name. However, not to have conflict they have programmes without clashing dates. Later in the kammas version, some recent uber-super kammas thought the million dollar asset club is too low low status for them. They created a new version of TANA with 25 million dollor waalas. NTR's daughter Purandareshwari thought this new entity is of her status level and accepted this richest club's invitation and addressed them.

If the above is Seema Andhra crap then the Telangana cousins are no less. They formed TDF (Telangana Dev Forum). Now it has three divisions and all are purely based on caste. I do not know if there was a fourth one.

The worst caste broth is actually brewed in AP and not anywhere else of India.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jan 2012 09:10

TANA -> TANA & ATA

TANA -->TANA (Average people) & NATS (high rollers)

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 25 Jan 2012 10:50

Why don't the majority do something about it and throw out the Reddy/Chowdary cabal.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 25 Jan 2012 11:21

bahdada wrote:Why don't the majority do something about it and throw out the Reddy/Chowdary cabal.

The cabal does not behave like the traditional caste set-up in UP or say Bihar .The cabal is very intelligent and despite all their faults they produce some great leaders for AP who significantly did a lot to AP development .Another point to note is the cabal is highly capitalist not feudal

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 25 Jan 2012 15:20

Narayana Rao wrote:As per the news reports the entire rule in AP is now in the hands of G N Azad. As chairman of the Co ordination committee he is now deciding everything for AP.

May be the increased visits of Gulan Nabi Azad can be attributed to 5-state elections. Everybody is keeping G N Azad (High command) in good humor by providing their part of dakishna as they can get their time-slots to vent up their feelings.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 25 Jan 2012 19:08

yup, one of the reasons why the powerful castes in AP can continue in power is b/c they have had a capitalist outlook for a long time now, and even more so, they are smart in how they share power with others. they don't overtly project any feelings of caste superiority, and they share the spoils, in terms of jobs and opportunities, with promising minds from any class. this is one of the reasons for their lasting influence.

but this can, and I believe is, changing in some sections of the elites b/c of EJ infiltration. I don't think the second generation EJ kids of those who converted have the same outlook.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jan 2012 22:47

Feudals->Capitalists->Entrepenuers

Here lies the salvation if the pattern becomes the norm.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 25 Jan 2012 22:54

ramana wrote:Feudals->Capitalists->Entrepenuers

Here lies the salvation if the pattern becomes the norm.

No sir I respectfully disagree actually ryots with intermediate land 20-30 acres are most liable to become enterpreneur to increase revenue streams the Costal Kammas and Costal reddies fit this bill perfectly.Before YSR the rayalseema reddies were financially back compared to their coastal counterparts because they never had the incentive to go out and do business as a feudal they were doing great in Rayalseema.ditto with velamas the are feudals and did not see the need to go enterprenual and they lost in the race to make money KCR fits here the most.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 26 Jan 2012 06:31

I was part of the election process in AP till 1996 as I was actively doing work for BJP. I was not a member as such but since I was in Sangh and was well know to up comming BJP leaders I used to work for them. Starting from in chrge for vast areas to being a polling and counting agent. Till that time it was very difficult to get a caste based vote. Some advatage used to be there but not much. Today I assume, with greater eduction and welfare mafia creation the economic and other reasons deminate voting in any elections in AP. INC is trying to have a Kapu/Balija/Naidu groups with them and are trying to project Chiranjivi, Bosta Sathyanarayana as Kapu leaders. But this can not be at the cost of their SC ST base. The Amalapuram clashes ( I hope it is reported in US also) are a indication of this effort and the mismatch in asparations. Removable of Shakar Rao from Cabinet and low representation of SC's in cabinet already created a situation. But does caste polarisation in voting will create a situation wherein all election results in AP will be mere addting of voting percentages of each community? I am not sure.

One more thing in AP is no one leader will be accepted as leader of any community. It used to be like that when I was actively in politics. I am very sure that is the case even now. Every small time good and " leader" wish to project himself ( til date there is no herself in AP) as the community leader Bosta v/s Chiru example is already there. Dasari Narayana Rao is also now angry due to this projection of Bosta and Chiru. So if one community leader is in congress then another person of the same community will be there in TDP. So things may balance out. Many BC leaders are leaders on paper only. No one hear to them. Further can a leader carry his votes and transfer them at his will in AP? My gut feeling is it is not possible in AP even in these days.

May be some of you seeing things based on your experiances in US and I am seeing thing based on my wishful thinking, I do not know. All I know that INC needed to be destroyed in AP fully in 2014 elections otherwise our nation will suffer a great harm for 5 more years. 10 years of rule itself is too bad and I can not imagine what will happen if it extends for 5 more years.

EJ of course is more problem here. I wonder how it plays out in 2014.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Jan 2012 20:33

Great Andhra.com reports a spat between TRS and Naxals.

Reminds me of a post by Bji. How Naxals behave with regional political groups and the correlation with INC plays

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 27 Jan 2012 22:18

interesting. T elites already once got burned by Naxals, b/c of their own excessive behavior. now, KCR comes along and thinks he can cover it up and make deals with Naxals. the naxals of today and KCR are both criminals. but one wonders on what issue and why there is a spat between the two? either way, such a break is an indication of lack of cohesive thinking between the two groups. if there is anybody to take lessons, they should realize this. in AP, for long term resurgence and renewal, it will be a necessity to have an ideological underpinning that can unite varied sections.

member_22286 · Post by **member_22286** » 27 Jan 2012 22:32

Great Andhra is notorious for rumour mongering and even its webmaster got arrested in Bangalore recently for rumour mongering.Let more news come in about this

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Jan 2012 06:04

This disputes between naxals and TRS came to light with Gaddar started a saparate forum itself. Naxals wanted Telangana so that they can have a safe heaven and also take part in haftha collection, land mafia activities in Hyderabad. TRS was infiltrated by them at the start itself( or allowed to be infiltrated by KCR) Now there will be no immediate decision on Telangana the entire political set up is changing more towards 2014 elections and INC instigated caste wars. With this KCR is not pusing for Telangana with earlier confidence. Realizing division of AP may not take place and they were sold out by KCR, naxals seems to be quaralling with TRS for the same political space.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 28 Jan 2012 15:09

Narayana Rao wrote: INC is trying to have a Kapu/Balija/Naidu groups with them and are trying to project Chiranjivi, Bosta Sathyanarayana as Kapu leaders. But this can not be at the cost of their SC ST base. The Amalapuram clashes ( I hope it is reported in US also) are a indication of this effort and the mismatch in asparations. Removable of Shakar Rao from Cabinet and low representation of SC's in cabinet already created a situation. But does caste polarisation in voting will create a situation wherein all election results in AP will be mere addting of voting percentages of each community? I am not sure.
.

http://andhraheadlines.com/state/vangav ... 95492.html

Polarizing and instigating by destroying statues is new style but share similarities to YSR signature style of riot instigation in Hyderabad in late 80s. When INC wants to pull Kapus, YSR&co may be trying to pull Malas out of INC to show their side of power within INC.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Jan 2012 20:15

Are we seeing Desecration of BRAmbedkar's statues in response to CBN's statement against thousands of YSR statues coming everywhere in the middle of the roads, because TDP is seen as BC party?

Why are the so-called SCs and Dalits are not turning against YSJ group on this trend? Is it because Dalits transformed into Xtians?