Bharat Rakshak

The Coastal and "Cudappah" (or as Rayalseema was formerly called I think) really know in your heart of hearts where you "belong".. Yeah Yeah.. Think about it. Aint it the "Madras" of old ?.

the south Indian version of map making revisionist.

T and non-T lawyers clash in AP HC premises today.

Meanwhile, finally the Hon. PM has broken his silence and said something.
PM assures MPs nothing will be done in haste

Times Now reported he met with non-T MPs of AP today. He said the T roadmap would be implemented slowly. Operative catchword being 'would be implemented'.

The Coastal and "Cudappah" (or as Rayalseema was formerly called I think) really know in your heart of hearts where you "belong".. Yeah Yeah.. Think about it. Aint it the "Madras" of old ?.

Good point. I guess it times to go back to the drawing board and demand Madras as the new capital of non-T Telugu Desam....

Vina
That post will be considered in poor taste given the current situation no matter what your intentions are. I suggest we reserve these jibes for the time after the dust settles.

Hyderabad will be the capital of Telangana: Home Secy
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/ ... centre.htm

The events in Hyderabad,where India might be fighting its first internal war within a state, have created a crisis of staggering proportions as a soft,nay "porus" govt. at the centre,in indecent haste agreed to sever the state of Andhra Pradesh just because it was afraid of a fasting man, whose stormtroopers threatened major local disturbances that would've neccessitated some strong measures to put down.Sonia's,sorry....Pandora's box has been opened and the "splittist" worms have in an instant come rushing out of their lairs ,gleeful in the knowledge that the current dispensation in Delhi can hold water as much as a bucket without a base.
Many will say that there is a crying need to make giant entitites like UP,Bihar,etc.smaller for administrative purposes.True,there is merit in some cases,but these cases should be carefully examined by an all-party parliamentary committe specially set up to examine each case calmly on merit and take careful well-thought of decisions,not because a weak CM got his loincloth in a twist!

The root cause for this fiiasco must be laid at Pandit Nehru's feet.Several seniormost members of parliament half a decade ago pleaded with him not to reorganise the states based upon linguistic boundaries.One of them said that his words would echo in the halls of parliament 50 years from now and he was truly prophetic.As the states after Independence were dismembered according to langauge,and renamed too as Karnataka,Tamilnadu,etc.,we inherited the anti-Hindi movements in the south in the '60s.,giving the fissiparious tendencies a shot in the arm,which we saw in full flow with support for the fascist LTTE.Furthermore,natural national assets like river waters,mineral wealth,etc., have been the bone of contention between states like the Cauvery waters dispute between TN and Karnataka and TN and Kerala over a dam's height.

In other states like Maharashtra, we are seen the emergence of narrow mindsets displayed by Raj Thackeray who wanted all North Indians to leave.If states are going to be further dismembered going by the latest Telengana crisis,factions pro and against will take to the streets and tribalism will rule rampant,especially when the central govt. is as strong as a weed in the wind.All over the country,our citizens are being made to retreat into their castes,religions and ethnic groups, instead of being first and foremost Indians.With the eruption of the cancer of "splittism" thanks to the panicking Congress "High Command", the country is now ripe for external forces to use these "splittist" factions to further further internal unrest.In addition,our mortal enemies will upon seeing how easily the state succumbed to just one little known fasting man,will wonder how equally easy it will be to carve off a chunk of India that they lust after.

If the Delhi dispensation does not act with extreme caution,Dr.Man Mohan Singh's legacy might be that of the Balkanisation of India,not achieved through external forces but resulting as a consequence of fear from within.

hmm

this is all too confusing

need a map

@Surya

Now that Telangana is a reality, since delaying tactics are not going to work, one wonders if it might not have come to this situation if the officially sanctioned " son of the soil " policy AP/G.O. 610 was properly implemented?

Would it have helped the folks of Telangana who are feeling victimised due to the poor governance of past and present governments? Knowledgeable folks please answer...

Sources said while there are around 11 lakh jobs in government and aided institutions, the share of the backward region is only 2.5 lakh while it should be six lakh as per GO-610. The GO has not been implemented after 20 years.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Ass ... 325171.cms

(There was a G.O for hiring locals or non locals from Telangana based on their place of birth -AP/G.O. 610- and its implementation and figures can be seen in the website. Also, how legal is this, since it effectively marks out locals from non locals based on the districts of birth? )

Surya wrote:hmm

this is all too confusing

need a map

self deleted

sanjaychoudhry wrote:Hyderabad will be the capital of Telangana: Home Secy
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/dec/ ... centre.htm

PC backtracked the statement as it is not approved.

^^^ Can you pls. write on the AP/G.O. 610, since you are obviously better informed. Thx.

.....

Mayawati Backs Demand for Harit Pradesh

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?670920

Lucknow | Dec 11, 2009

Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Mayawati on Friday jumped on the bandwagon demanding the creation of smaller states, declaring that carving Harit Pradesh and Bundelkhand from parts of UP was a 'feasible' idea.

In the wake of the Centre's decision to create Telangana by dividing Andhra Pradesh, the UP CM said that her party will back the demand for the creation of smaller states.

"We back the demand for Harit Pradesh. Smaller states can be better administered," she told a press conference in Lucknow.

"If the Centre moves a resolution on Harit Pradesh, the Bahujan Samaj Party will support it," said the BSP supremo.

Rashtriya Lok Dal chief Ajit Singh has already revived his party's demand for Harit Pradesh, to be carved out of parts of western UP, and said he wanted to discuss the matter with the Centre.

There is a HUGE difference between Balkan and India. Andhra people are NOT demanding a sperate state. Rather they are demanding shorter distance to power. Indian states are too large, and the state governement usually fail to manage all parts of the state.

My family is from now uttranchal. when it was part of UP, everything was managed (mismanaged) from a far away place. The state had some 190 million people and was has been in a terrible mess. Now that at least the people feel they have some say in politics. If you ask me, UP should be further divided into 2-3 parts (Noida-Gaziabad-Agra-Merut,Moradabad) would make a great state. The area would become an economic powerhouse, because the revenue of the area could be retained for development. Now the area is controlled by voters in a vast rural area, and all the revenue go toward stupid things. Problem with large states are that the profits are not retained by the area that create them.


I think it will be great if AP is divided. It will lead to shorter distance to power and hopefully all parts of the state will get some attention.
I have been hoping for something like this for a long time.

Well,the issue is not bifurcating states which need to for genuine reasons,but the manner in which it is being done.If every man who wants a separate state just goes on a "death fast" to blackmail the GOI,which will swiftly give in,what is the future of the country? Just as much as the Telenganites want their state AND Hyderabad."Telengana without Hyderabad is like mutton biryani without mutton"-said Rao,so do the rest of the majority of the rest of the state's legislators,90 of whom have resigned,who do not want their state dismembered in such a cavalier manner.What will the GOI now do if they go on a "death fast" demanding that Hyderabad is not handed over,or the state not be dismembered? The indecent haste with which the Congress "High Command",neither lofty nor apparently in command,has yeilded to the protagonists of Telengana has seen within hours a veritable scorpion's nest of "splittists" emerging from their holes.

Perhaps I'm on the wrong side of history and should start demanding my own state and go on hunger strike too,a good way to lose weight and gain popularity!

AP would need to be divided into 3 , UP already into 3 , karnataka into two .but is there an end .

The fundamental reason for this mess is the westminister from of system where in any tom dick and harry can become the CM/PM and local aspirations are never taken care off

Telangana
Uttarandhra
Andhra
Greater Rayalaseema

We have become a laughing stock....congratulations to all Telugu folks

A person living in Ghaziabad would have to go all the way to Allahabad High court every time he has a hearing. How much is that? 500 Kms? Just an example, but there are far bigger problems that people face. UP should have been trifurcated years ago.

People asking for a separate state should not be mistaken for "balkanisation" of India, as long as it is not done on caste or religious lines.

AjayKK wrote:Now that Telangana is a reality, since delaying tactics are not going to work, one wonders if it might not have come to this situation if the officially sanctioned " son of the soil " policy AP/G.O. 610 was properly implemented?

Would it have helped the folks of Telangana who are feeling victimised due to the poor governance of past and present governments? Knowledgeable folks please answer...

Sources said while there are around 11 lakh jobs in government and aided institutions, the share of the backward region is only 2.5 lakh while it should be six lakh as per GO-610. The GO has not been implemented after 20 years.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Ass ... 325171.cms

(There was a G.O for hiring locals or non locals from Telangana based on their place of birth -AP/G.O. 610- and its implementation and figures can be seen in the website. Also, how legal is this, since it effectively marks out locals from non locals based on the districts of birth? )

I do not know all the details of GO-610 implementation and reasons around it. I will tend to believe what Telanganites are saying regarding this issue becasue the adminstration and beauracracy is dominated by the coastal area folks as they are more educated (from the times of British rule) than Telangana folks. They created a space where it is naturally difficult for Telangana folks.

Even if it is perfectly implemented, Telangana sentiment will prevail. GO-610 is all about Government jobs and the region's backwardness is due to agricultural and educational backwardness. When you want a seperate state, you search for fuel and GO-610 is just a fuel.

Sons-of-the-soil was perfectly implemented in the educational institutions after 1969 Telangana agitation. The entire AP was divided into OU area (Osmania/Telangana), AU area (Andhra) and Venkateshwara University area for Rayalaseema folks. In OU institutions, all the seats are 80% for sons-of soil and 20% for other AP regions. SC/ST and other reservations are part of it. Similar things are there for other regions too. Even in RECW- 50% for rest of India and in the 50% belonging to AP the seats are divided with 33:22:20 ( something like that) for the three regions of AP.

Similar implementations were there even in Jobs. However, you need to understand one important thing here as there is no race difference to differentiate someone from Telangana to that of other regions. The Andhra region folks settled for generations in Telangana and their children are sons-of-the-soil in Telangana. Historically ( to a large extent even today), Telangana origin folks are less literate and hence the settlers(very funny word ) have occupied the positions even via sons-of-soil. It will continue even after Telangana is formed.

Those state which have remained behind and if dividing them to manageable sizes ensures early and guaranteed development then let it begin i say. Let it begin.

Vina-saar,

You are right. Yesterday a collegue of mine was laughing at us with the same comment. You "Telungus" wanted to separate from us, then why are you crying when it is time to give up "Telangana"?

The only difference I see is that a united Madras state would have strengthened today's Karunanidhi types to the extreme. Imagine where MK would have taken his anti-rama statements, and imagine if his DMK could control the Islamist raise in a united Madras state with AP islamist leaders joining hands.

On one extreme lies entire India as one state , and on another extreme lies 590+ samsthanas. The balance is some where in between.

I do not know if Telangana is a good thing or not. What I know is that the manner it all unfolded doesn't strengthen India.

vina wrote:If Hyderabad goes , you can rest assured, that the entire Telugu Film industry will come running back to their "original home" - Madras .. All the old Gemini, Vijaya Vahini and studio folks and even Telugu stars like Akkeni Nageswar Roa, N T Rama Rao and all those old folks would smile and bless them from wherever they are now..

Actually Vizag is being readied for such a situation. There is an aprehention that Telangana is inevitable for a while inspite of all rhona-dhona. A lot of Telugu movies are made either in Hyderabad and Vizag anyway.

Telugu folks can carve a state in US too They are like pest onlee and how can the world avoid them.

The cynic in me says it is a move to cut down the power of regional parties like the TDP.

OK folks, the counter fast-unto-deaths have started. One is going on in Tadipatri by a low level PRP leader. The twist is even the police are said to be supporting him

The first "resigned" powerful Vijayawada MP, owner of Lanco industries is planning to go one himself. If he goes on fast, with the amount of money power he has, he can stop any harakiri against him by simply buying them off.

me right now, grabbing a bag of popcorn and have started to control my emotions and starting to enjoying all the tamasha. One thing is certain and for me, the only positive in this. The renowned servility of the local congress to the high command has been shown as mirage and will have lot of negatives for congress as a whole. Now where is my popcorn?

ravi_ku wrote:OK folks, the counter fast-unto-deaths have started. One is going on in Tadipatri by a low level PRP leader. The twist is even the police are said to be supporting him

The first "resigned" powerful Vijayawada MP, owner of Lanco industries is planning to go one himself. If he goes on fast, with the amount of money power he has, he can stop any harakiri against him by simply buying them off.

me right now, grabbing a bag of popcorn and have started to control my emotions and starting to enjoying all the tamasha. One thing is certain and for me, the only positive in this. The renowned servility of the local congress to the high command has been shown as mirage and will have lot of negatives for congress as a whole. Now where is my popcorn?

True. But we need to give credit to INC central rulers. They seems to be really decisive and Telangana is final.

INC meticulously hijacked the Telangana agenda from all the regional staraps and caught TDP and PRP types on the wrong side. TDP/PRP's support to Telangana was with huge confidence that INC will not go Telangana route. INC basically cheated the Andhra/Rayalseema INC voters.

The real fun will be in non-Telangana region as INC knows the weaknesses there. They will create huge problems between districts regarding the capital city. Rayalaseema folks has a better chance to get it. May be it is Kurnool again.

Hyderabad as common capitol will work only if Nalgonda and Khammam are left out of Telangana which is partially possible because Khammam never really wanted to be part of Telangana. Nalgonda are staunch Telanganites and hence this is a remote chance.

Regarding negatives for INC - this needs analysis. Their core vote bank in not altered. No matter how many states are formed, SC/ST, EJ+Muslims are going to vote for them and hence this confidence. The middle-educated are divided between TDP, PRP etc.

But were not the previous MLA's supposed to represent their constituency in the "bigger" state? Is not the new system of a smaller state, still be run along the same lines - with representatives in similar proportions? What guarantees their success in the smaller and failure in the bigger?

Only point - bargaining power. Okay, so if bargaining power increases because the smaller group of representatives can now directly get allocation of funds and freedom to dispose off such funds - does it not reduce their competitiveness? They no longer have to compete for their desired inputs.

There are very few necessities for which the resident of a state "corner" has to go to the "state" capital. One crucial factor is access to judicial process and institutions, which can also be met by "courts" themselves moving from sessions to session along different subregions - at least to a certain extent.

A lot of the complaints that are used to demand subdivisions of states are actually an issue of governance. Greater electronic or digitization of the entire gamut of citizen-rashtra interactions can reduce many of these complaints. If politicians failed to use the system before (the system has to be assumed to be inherently "perfect") they can fail again - even in the smaller setup.

It is human failure that is the problem. Take as much as is feasible away from human decision making - make as far as the rashtryia services as possible "rule-bound" and automatic. Subdivisions of states based on some concocted identity or a subidentity which is pumped up far in excess of its real value - is the surefire way to create competing sense of belonging. Not a foundation for a strong nation.

One of the most important questions i got during the whole fiasco.


How can Sonia gandhi declare a seperate state as her birthday gift. Why is our PM so silent?

The whole fast thing has become a joke? The pakis and thier talibunnies do bombing and counter bombings. We do fasts and counter fasts. Gandhigiri at its best

If telangana was neglected in preference to andhra, then but in the last 10-15 all the other parts of state were neglected in preference for Developing hyderabad. What would the center do compensate for that?


This can even go against the central INC leaders. Everybody in Andhra in seeing this sonia gandhi's worst desicion making. Infact a normal student from a college asked in Live TV if CM Rosaiah was wearing bangles as he runs to AMMA sonia for any decision. The PM should be the one deciding on these issues. Man we andhra folks have real become a laughing stock.

opens up a pandora's box that's for sure.

hard to say if the good outweighs the bad.

Its sad we have two states with same language. does it not go against shastri-ji's vision?

losing a city like hyderabad! man.. thats bad too.

Chief ministers (and their cabinets and cronies) of Indian states are all corrupt fat ba$tards who make huge money while most of the state is left high and dry. Better to divide up the states into smaller governable bits and let the state governments work for their money.

Look at Karnataka - a totally stupid 1 city state (OK one and a half cities now). Most of the North consists of rubbishy one-horse towns not worth mentioning for tourism, industry or even crime. What's the use? Divide the damn state up and let the local capitals develop themselves to be better than Bangalore and bring industry and jobs to those areas. As long as the Bellary man can get fat in Bangalore he does not give a fig for what happens in his bone-dry constituency.

And each of these half-wit chief ministers get a state as big as a European country. Balls . Divide up the states. No corrupt neta should have such a huge state to plunder. They are mostly incapable of governing in any case.

Running to amma for every small decision is nothing new for the sycophantic congress leaders. It has been happening for long time. Infact it is said even if rosaiah has to sneeze he has to go to amma. YSR bucked that trend.
But what is remarkable is, this is the second time that congress activists criticized the high command. First was when Jagan was not made the CM and now. Congress is surely digging its own grave in AP.

shiv wrote:Chief ministers (and their cabinets and cronies) of Indian states are all corrupt fat ba$tards who make huge money while most of the state is left high and dry. Better to divide up the states into smaller governable bits and let the state governments work for their money.

Look at Karnataka - a totally stupid 1 city state (OK one and a half cities now). Most of the North consists of rubbishy one-horse towns not worth mentioning for tourism, industry or even crime. What's the use? Divide the damn state up and let the local capitals develop themselves to be better than Bangalore and bring industry and jobs to those areas. As long as the Bellary man can get fat in Bangalore he does not give a fig for what happens in his bone-dry constituency.

And each of these half-wit chief ministers get a state as big as a European country. Balls . Divide up the states. No corrupt neta should have such a huge state to plunder. They are mostly incapable of governing in any case.

Still does not ensure an arrest in wide spread corruption. e.g: Madhu Koda, Jharkhand. Me feels, part of this drive for smaller states, is a drive for regional satraps to get to their own gravy train faster, by being at the top slot in the province. Something they cannot do in the larger entity. I am not for "larger" states, but the malice cannot be arrested by smaller states alone. Having said that, I have seen first hand the difference a smaller state can make when I compare Uttarakhand with UP, before and after the split. In relative terms, Uttarakhand, seems first world and UP looks third world. Same goes for Goa and Maharashtra, no prize for guessing, who looks like first world in relative terms.

The issue at hand is the proper functioning of the third tier of governance, as started by the 73rd and 74th amendments, where nagarpalikas and panchayats have real and accountable powers, including the power to tax and make all local decisions. Europe would be the wrong model to copy.

shiv wrote:And each of these half-wit chief ministers get a state as big as a European country. Balls . Divide up the states. No corrupt neta should have such a huge state to plunder. They are mostly incapable of governing in any case.

Sums up the crux of the issue when it come to the need for smaller states. It cutrails strong regional satraps from dictating terms to the centre, prevents policy concentration and actually makes states compete with one another rather than live off their natural advantages.

Actually speaking India is not becoming Balkanized but moving on from linguistic chauvisnism, ethnic chauvinism and identity based setup of states to one primarily defined by socio-economic deprivations. These deprivations may or may not coincide other social faultlines but we can certainly never call prior divisions (earlier state reorganizations) as morally superior to other ones being demanded now. The pivotal role of centre in current imbroglio tells us all that it (centre) is more powerful than even before in recent times whereby the numerically most crucial state in the ruling party has to resort to deperate tactics to even delay the inevitable. The very fact that SG can create or reform states at the mere flick of her finger tells us that unlike the Ro-Dho on our forum here INC and Union GOI are ever more powerful and there is nothing much that regional satraps can do to stall the decisions once made in Delhi. In short we as a country are slowly becoming more than the sum of our parts.

Infact the centre should go ahead and give more powers/responsibilities to better performing states and curtail the state list subjects for laggards as a sort of incentive mechanism to get the states to move their legs. Vidharbha, Telangana, UP, areas of WB and many more regions are symptomatic of political marginalization and socio-economic neglect.
Mayawati's call for Trifurcation of UP is honest and welcome.

bhavani wrote: Man we andhra folks have real become a laughing stock.

Lets pray and hope that the ongoing kosta andhra protests will disprove a very old saying "Andhrulaku Aarambha Sooratvam" means Andhras have josh in the start only...

Congress is surely digging its own grave in AP.

lets say if congress fades after all this telangana issue is resolved(separated or united)...who else has the capacity to fill the void...TDP or PRP or JP in Andhra/Rayalaseema regions?

shiv wrote:Look at Karnataka - a totally stupid 1 city state (OK one and a half cities now). Most of the North consists of rubbishy one-horse towns not worth mentioning for tourism, industry or even crime. What's the use? Divide the damn state up and let the local capitals develop themselves to be better than Bangalore and bring industry and jobs to those areas. As long as the Bellary man can get fat in Bangalore he does not give a fig for what happens in his bone-dry constituency.

And each of these half-wit chief ministers get a state as big as a European country. Balls . Divide up the states. No corrupt neta should have such a huge state to plunder. They are mostly incapable of governing in any case.

This is exactly what I was thinking. As far as Karnataka is concerned there is no doubt it is a one city state. All Ministers, MLA and their posse end up staying in Bangalore anyways, visiting constituencies only during election time.

Karnataka should be divided up into Mysuru state, Bengalurunagara and Kannadangana.

US with less than one third of our population has 50 states and we are doing so much breast beating at mere 29

It makes sense to create new urban centres by splitting states and developing their capitals. However, it also serves to exacerbate the existing problems of a bloated bureaucracy and adds to the leech like politician class. Not to mention that the division of resources would be problematic as every small state has to run to the central govt. for any significant infrastructure investment. This in a way serves to worsen the existing power balance.

The solution may be devolve more financial and executive power to district and even sub-district level administrations. Every tom, dick and harry wants a state so that he/she can have a personal fiefdom which is the way the states are run today, with utter disregard for national problems. Part of the solution is to reduce the power of the state vis a vis the districts and have local districts more leeway in deciding development objectives.

I mean just look at Tamil Nadu, Rajasthan, Maharashtra and Karnakata. Such angels in government and a total population of 250 million plus from just these four. Flamin heck 60 million Karnataka people represented by ONE CM and a few cronies. It's just not on. Divide it up I say.

shiv wrote:Karnataka should be divided up into Mysuru state, Bengalurunagara and Kannadangana.

I was thinking more like two, North Karnataka (with hubli/dharwad as capital) and South Karnataka (or Mysuru if you prefer, bengaluru as capital).

Home Secretary beats a hasty retreat on his Hyderabad statement

MPs from Andhra Pradesh were also furious over Pillai's remarks. "We go by what Prime Minister (Manmohan Singh), Congress president Sonia Gandhi says and not by Pillai, superintendent of police or a clerk...let the home secretary give separate Telangana, if he is capable," Congress MP K S Rao told reporters in Parliament.

Man that was hard....Home Secy egged his face himself