Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

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brihaspati
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 09 Jan 2010 19:46

Hinton's views and descriptions are based on actual participation in land-reform teams in China and from teaching work in "liberated areas".

From wiki :
"At the time of Hinton's first visit to China in the mid-1930s, a handful of U.S journalists, such as Edgar Snow, Helen Foster Snow, and Owen Lattimore, had sneaked through the KMT blockade into Communist territory. All praised the high morale, social reform, and commitment to fighting Japan that they observed.

Along with academic colleagues, Hinton made similar observations when he served from 1945-1953 during his subsequent visit to China. Hinton was a staff member of the U.S. Office of War Information and was present at the Chongqing peace talks between the Kuomintang and the Communist Party of China, where he met Zhou Enlai and Mao Zedong. Hinton later accepted a post as an English teacher at the Northern University in Southeast Shanxi province, near Changzhi City, in a liberated district. In 1948 he asked to join the university-staffed land reform work team in the village of Long Bow on the outskirts of Changzhi.

Hinton spent eight months working in the fields in the day and attending land reform meetings both day and night, and during this time he took careful notes on the land reform process. He assisted in the development of mechanized agriculture and education, and mainly stayed in the CPC-ruled northern Chinese village of Long Bow, forging close bonds with the inhabitants. Hinton aided the locals with complicated CPC initiatives, especially literacy projects, the breaking up of the feudal estates, ensuring the equality of women, and the replacement of the imperial-era magistrates that governed the village with councils in a symbiotic relationship with the landed gentry class. Hinton took more than one thousand pages of notes during his time in China."

Hinton actually revisited China, after Deng returned to power and actually stayed at Dazhai, based on which his later work on "reversal" was published. This was critical of Deng, and supported the claims based on his actual collections of data on spot. His sister Joan, who has stayed in China since late 40's (and was a nuclear physicist and part of the Manhattan Project) in a small agricultural commune - farming - would be an equally interesting character and is equally critical and openly so about Dengian reforms. She is on-spot too and a participant in the daily life.

The question really is about two differnt viewpoints about "grassroots democracy" and how it should affect the structures of power. The same question will become significant for China and India in two different ways. For the strategic future of India, the connections cannot be ignored. Promotion of such a democracy in China, can be a significant factor in diluting the "imperialistic" ambitions of the Chinese elite in power now (many direct descendants and sons or daughters of previous party elite - and hence as in India - showing similar signs of dynasty).

India can have a two pronged stratgey for this in China - just as what I have proposed tentatively for TSP. Target the "elite" and separate them from the "masses" in propaganda. Help in promoting the traditional resentment towards the hierarchical elite that seems to consolidate itself and recapture power after every "transition" - just as in India. Parts of the elite always collaborates with invading forces in both countries to hold on to their powers and privileges - and sacrifice the "masses". Others in the elite ride waves of popular resentment to re-establish their hold on the power when unpopular regimes or foreigners are expelled - and continue to deny the mass representation in power.

Elite propaganda in both countries do not reflect naturally and necessarily the feelings of the "people". For both TSP and China, it is important to distinguish, even from a tactical viewpoint to focus hostility and delegitimization efforts against the elite in power - while fostering hopes of collaboration and empowerment to the "people".


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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Jarita » 11 Jan 2010 00:08

At a certain level one admires the Pakistanis for having the conviction to fight for what they want. They want Kashmir and have made such a noise about it that today the world believes that Pakistan has a claim on Indian Kashmir but does not question pakistans claim on POK.
We have consistently lost territory since indep. both through war and otherwise - the recent report of whittling of our territory at chinese hands should be a wakeup call if nothing else. We did not even fight a war to face that loss. China occupied our territory in 1962 but it is shown as part of China today across the world. No one questions that. Tibet is also shown as China across the world.

While we may tote our success vis a vis Pakistan, all things being equal we have failed. Pakistan has lesser territory, lesser population but still able to orchestrate world opinion around Kashmir.
There is something seriously wrong with our leadership. All the hot air 'India superpower" etc are just to obfuscate the issue.
Unless something happens soon we will be left like "Happy Idiots" with nothing but believing we have everything like the "emporers new clothes"
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 11 Jan 2010 00:44

^^^err -"Pakistani thread"!!! :eek: Maybe you wanted to say "we also discuss Pakistan"?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby svinayak » 11 Jan 2010 02:10

Jarita wrote:At a certain level one admires the Pakistanis for having the conviction to fight for what they want. They want Kashmir and have made such a noise about it that today

It is a question of survival. That survival instinct keeps them awake all night. They dont have any real genuine supporters in the world.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 13 Jan 2010 18:32

Models suggested for consideration as way forward for J&K

The various references for so-called resolving the J&K dispute with TSP along preexisting and mostly European cases are increasing. As a slight departure from the standard "Northern Ireland -Good Friday" model mostly proposed in seminars and by researchers: we have this list of alternatives.

The Aland Islands model
Sweden , Finland
Swedish nationals in Finland controlled territory. The former wants to join Sweden , but Finland would not agree.
The status of an autonomous territory was given, but Finland retains sovereignty over the Islands . Helsinki was to ensure linguistic rights (Swedish language) as well as culture and heritage of Aland residents: The Islands were given a neutral and demilitarised status with their own flag, own postage stamps, and own police force.

The Trieste model
Italy , Yugoslavia
Predominant presence of Slovenians around the city of Trieste (inhabited by Italians), which was controlled by Anglo-American and Yugoslavian forces respectively, known as Zone A and Zone B during the Second World War.
Free Territory of Trieste was established in 1947 under the protection of the UNSC as a neutral state which comprised the city of Trieste , a narrow strip of coastal territory connecting it to Italy , Slovenia and Istria . Later, under the Treaty of Osimo (1954), the territory was formally divided along the zonal border between Italy and Yugoslavia .


The South Tyrol model
Italy , Austria
Formerly part of Austria . Presence of three linguistic groups viz., Germans (70%), Italian (26%) and Ladin (4%). Annexed by Italy in 1919. Struggle by German majority against Italianisation. Failure of Paris Agreement (1946) and lack of implementation of the South Tyrol Package (1969)
Settled in 1992 with acceptance of the implementation of the South Tyrol Package (1969). Under Italian sovereignty, but with greater autonomy: recognition of cultural diversity; autonomy of legislation and administration; minority veto on issues of fundamental importance; and proportional ethnic representation. The autonomy package is overseen by Austria .


The Andorra model
France , Spain
Andorra was under a unique co-principality, ruled by the French chief of state and the Spanish bishop of Urgel for 715 years (1278 to 1993).
Through a Constitution enacted in 1993 the government was transformed into a parliamentary democracy with both French and Spanish heads of states jointly wielding executive powers as "co-princes". Andorra 's defence is ensured by France and Spain .


Sami parliamentary model
Norway , Finland , Sweden , Sami indigenous population
Inhabiting northern Fennoscandia (northern parts of Finland , Norway and Sweden ) Samis are pastoral nomadic people, whose way of life contradicts territoriality. They waged a protracted struggle for their indigenous rights in all three countries.
The cultural rights of Samis were recognized in the constitutions of each of the three countries. This apart, a separate Sami Parliament was established in each of these countries to act as advisory bodies on issues affecting Samis.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby ramana » 13 Jan 2010 22:23

All those models are co-religionists. Point out a model with different religions and then we can look at it.
Cyprus is still a dispute between Greek and Turkish Cypriots.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby svinayak » 13 Jan 2010 22:28

ramana wrote:All those models are co-religionists. Point out a model with different religions and then we can look at it.
Cyprus is still a dispute between Greek and Turkish Cypriots.


India , region and asia cannot have European model. Europe has been thru many social changes in the last few centuries and more in the last 100 years. THey have the same religion with only the race/ethnicity difference.

Indian subcontinent the race is the same but the religion ideology/political power structure difference comes into place. Islamist ideology cannot work with any formula.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 13 Jan 2010 23:06

ramanaji and Acharyaji,
those were not my suggestions actually. I just requoted it from the article. Explore the link provided. Quite a few of them are involved in this research on "models". Sumantra Bose, I think is another "stalwart" in suggesting such models. I wanted to point out that a growing number of Indian "scholarly" voices are talking about such ideas. This is a standard technique nowadays - to introduce and create political consensus in phases, starting with "intellectuals" broaching the idea.

None of the models are applicable, from my viewpoint. Moreover, any such model is dependent on "objectives" and "desired outcomes". Those "objectives" and "outcomes" are not yet fixed. This is what I wanted highlight. All these models appear to assume certain definite objectives. "Peace" is not a well-defined "objective" since "peace" can mean different things to different entities. For TSP, the very existence of a non-Muslim dominated India is distrurbance of "peace".

One of the reasons perhaps scholars find no problem in using such models as templates for J&K and ignore the simpler sectarian nature of co-religionist conflict in the European models - is perhaps because there has been a conscious attempt to suppress the obvious role of inter-faith conflicts. Everything is made out on the basis of supposed economic motivation and the assumption that fundamentalism is an external and not internal or intrinsic part of "faith". Therefore pure economic measures backed up by political top-dressing is claimed to be able to wish away the fundamentalist/sectarian bit.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby ramana » 13 Jan 2010 23:12

The models are from IPCS run by Mr PC Chari along with Michael Krepon (other variations of spelling are there too).


The ignoring the inter-religious nature is due to modernity of the scholars. They think Peace of Westphalia is universal. Its not when one side does ignores it. Infact this is the same failing that early Indians had wrt to Afghano-Turkic hordes of observing one set of rules while the others were using another set.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby RayC » 14 Jan 2010 14:51

It all very fine and 'intellectual' to give European models.

The cultural and the psyche are not the same. At least, that is what I think since I am no intellectual or pseudo intellectual.

This is an Indian issue.

What is the answer in the Indian mould?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 16 Jan 2010 00:07

Contested Lands - article by Sumantra Bose on OpenDemocracy

Contested Lands argues that contrary to much conventional wisdom, the incremental approach is rife with risks, even perils. The window of opportunity represented by the onset and early stages of a peace process is both precious and tenuous, and time is not necessarily on the side of the supporters of peace. If the incremental process fails to deliver on its promise of piecemeal yet tangible progress, confidence-building can be turned on its head and become an exercise in confidence-destroying, as exemplified by the steady decline of the Israeli-Palestinian process through the 1990s. The gradualist approach also has the effect of giving "spoilers" on various sides - elements opposed to a negotiated peace - the time to mobilise, and prepare and implement destructive interventions. In addition, the incremental approach may in fact be, or become, a pretext for the more powerful party in a peace process to dictate its agenda, as some influential critics of the Oslo paradigm have argued.

There is no "one-size-fits-all" approach to making peace. But in some situations at least, a better strategy may be to aim for a comprehensive settlement to the dispute in all its dimensions, while staggering the implementation of such an agreement over time, as is inevitable due to practical and logistical compulsions. Apart from avoiding the pitfalls of incrementalism, such a strategy "locks in" the adversaries - however grudgingly and reluctantly - into the framework of a substantive settlement, and makes a total relapse into renewed warfare less likely.

This is, broadly, the experience of Northern Ireland since the Good Friday agreement of April 1998, and of Bosnia since the Dayton agreement of November-December 1995. In contrast, the absence of such a "locking in" mechanism has been a major factor in the unravelling and breakdown between 2002 and 2006 of Sri Lanka's peace process - which was premised, even if implicitly, on the incremental approach to peace-building - while the India-Pakistan peace process underway since 2004, based on the same evasive paradigm, is stalled. There is something to be said for the "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" formula - the motto of the United Nations's heroic if ultimately unsuccessful attempt, between 2000 and 2004, to mediate a solution to the Cyprus conflict.


Bose raises immensely perceptive pointers. But does he realize that by mentioning the failure of the UN's "heroic attempt" in Cyprus for the "everything together or none at all" approach - he is opening up an interesting angle. Why does such approaches fail and under what conditions? Cyprus is not only about ethno-nationalistic divides - but also about ideological/faith/religious divides. Is it possible that certain ideologies make them impossible to "agree on everything" unless those points are exactly what they initially demanded? That ithe basic power and identity of such ideologies are based on "distinctions" from the "other" - so that even the minutest agreements on some aspect with another group is an ideological threat to the identity itself? Acknowledgements of commonness with "others" on a wide front of aspects is destructive to the very identity that is driving the agenda of "self-rule/determination/nationhood"?

If that is true - the lock-down mechanism will fail in Israel-Palestine and India-Pakistan.

The ethno-national problem

Other challenges remain. Self-determination disputes - the most intractable genre of political disagreement - have virtually no chance of progressing toward settlement in the absence of third-party intervention, although the presence and activity of a third party is in itself no guarantee of a success. But the role of the third party, whilst essential, can have a very variable impact on the prospects of peace processes - constructive, ineffective, or even destructive.

The American role in the Oslo process, hobbled by the structural bias of United States policy towards Israel, deepened, instead of diluting, the massive power-differential between Israel and the Palestinians, and contributed to the eventual demise of that process. As a genuinely neutral third party, Norway played a pivotal role in the origins of Sri Lanka's peace process, bringing about the now-collapsed ceasefire agreement of 2002. But when the peace process became bogged down from 2003 onward, Norway, because it is a small, "do-gooder" country not taken too seriously by either belligerent, proved incapable of extricating the process from ruinous logjam.


Even if a country appears security-neutral what guarantees that it is really security neutral? How can we do so in a globally interconnected socio-economic and militarily collective of real and pseudo-nationhoods? What will be such an effective but neutral entity in case of India-Pakistan?

There is also no easy or uniform answer to the "spoiler problem". The most effective strategy to combat spoiler elements depends on the context, and ranges from politically marginalising Sinhalese ultra-nationalists in Sri Lanka to - possibly - co-opting Hamas in Israel-Palestine. The most fundamental impediment to peace processes and accords often comes, however, not from political movements commonly derided as "extremist" and "terrorist" - such as Hamas, or the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam in Sri Lanka (LTTE) - but from ethno-national majority populations (Sinhalese-Buddhists in Sri Lanka, Protestants in Northern Ireland, Greek Cypriots on Cyprus) among whom ideas of hegemonic dominance continue to hold sway, or from states, such as Israel, trapped in a militarist ethos and fortified by superpower patronage.


Is this the reason that there is such an overwhelming intellectual and political concern about deconstructing and marginalizing or delegtimizing the "usual suspects" on the Indian subcontinent - the non-Muslim majority of India? And why not even a fraction of the same effort is mounted against the Muslim majority in subregions and politically independent territories on the Indian subcontinent?

But the power of the majority is not determined by how numerous they are physically - but how many of them feel themselves as part of such a homogeneous "majority". That majorities do not determine actual confrontational outcomes is stark and glaring in the Partition of India. All scholars/intellectuals/apologists/politicains/hagiographers acknowledge that successful Partition variously as the determined actions by a "minority" or even admired "determination" of charismatic individuals! Maybe Prof. Bose and others of his opinion should look at formulating some concept of an "effective and determined" group hellbent on domination and separation rather than strictly thinking in terms of numerical strength. Lenin was prophetic when he opined that his "Bolshevik" faction would win - not because they were a numerical minority in the conclave of the socialists - but they were the "majority" (Bolshevik) in "agreeing on the maximum of points and agendas" among themselves!

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby svinayak » 16 Jan 2010 01:12

brihaspati wrote: Lenin was prophetic when he opined that his "Bolshevik" faction would win - not because they were a numerical minority in the conclave of the socialists - but they were the "majority" (Bolshevik) in "agreeing on the maximum of points and agendas" among themselves!

This is what it is all about . Homogeneity in values.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Prem » 16 Jan 2010 01:59

="Acharya"]
brihaspati wrote: Lenin was prophetic when he opined that his "Bolshevik" faction would win - not because they were a numerical minority in the conclave of the socialists - but they were the "majority" (Bolshevik) in "agreeing on the maximum of points and agendas" among themselves!

This is what it is all about . Homogeneity in values


This is the reason the worst abomination is committed when few entities or people propogate grouping , creating fault lines and giving the precetion that majority Indians are just a collections of groups . Spiritual refrences conencted with the holy soil provide this homogeneity and no secret this aspect is under constant attack by not onlee outsiders but few well meanings groups inside India. The line of thought that majority will some how steam roll the minority or why look back and learn from past and make future onlee are just the tools to hinder building critical values mass among Indics to gain its rightfull natural space .

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby RayC » 16 Jan 2010 10:45

History and civilisational heritage helps shape the future. It has to mould pragmatically into the environment of the present and the requirement of the future (as far as it can be foreseen).

To merely lean onto history and civilisation cannot produce desired results.

A case in point is the fundamentalist Islamic forces who delve into their scriptures to understand their present. Their state of affairs bear witness to this type of mindset!

They are as ardent and fiercely avowed to their 'glorious' past as any other. One wonders if it has given them a 'glorious' present or will give them a 'glorious' future!

A very complex conundrum!
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby svinayak » 16 Jan 2010 10:49

RayC wrote:A case in point is the fundamentalist Islamic forces who delve into their scriptures to understand their present. Their state of affairs bear witness to this type of mindset!

They are as ardent and fiercely avowed to their 'glorious' past as any other. One wonders if it has given them a 'glorious' present or will give them a 'glorious' future!

Dont compare Islamic history which never allows outsiders to interpret and change it.
Indic history and civilization memory has been trampled and abused for centuries and will be difficult to revive back. There is a spacial distance between the two.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby RayC » 16 Jan 2010 10:53

Acharya wrote:
RayC wrote:A case in point is the fundamentalist Islamic forces who delve into their scriptures to understand their present. Their state of affairs bear witness to this type of mindset!

They are as ardent and fiercely avowed to their 'glorious' past as any other. One wonders if it has given them a 'glorious' present or will give them a 'glorious' future!

Dont compare Islamic history which never allows outsiders to interpret and change it.
Indic history and civilization memory has been trampled and abused for centuries and will be difficult to revive back. There is a spacial distance between the two.




I beg to disagree. All history of all mankind has been trampled on at will.

Ask the Jews, Hindus, Sikhs or anyone. They all have good reasons to believe so.

The terrorism that has been spawned by Islamic fundamentalists are but their view that their Islamic history and thought is being trampled upon! They claim that their glorious days of the Islamic Empire was trampled up and was reduced to a postage stamp because of conspiracies. That is their view. One does not know how far that is right.

This is what a Muslim told me:

Tera gam gam,
Mera gam kahani,
Tera khoon khoon
aur Mera Khoon pani? :rotfl:

I am not here to change views.

You are welcome to have yours.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby svinayak » 16 Jan 2010 10:59

RayC wrote:
I beg to disagree. All history of all mankind has been trampled on at will.

Wrong. Check out Koran. Find out how many revision and changes have happened in history.


The terrorism that has been spawned by Islamic fundamentalists are but their view that their Islamic history and thought is being trampled upon! They claim that their glorious days of the Islamic Empire was trampled up and was reduced to a postage stamp because of conspiracies. That is their view. One does not know how far that is right.

Their glory days are tyranny for others. There is nothing which other countries faced have to say good things about it.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby RayC » 16 Jan 2010 11:01

Acharya wrote:
RayC wrote:
I beg to disagree. All history of all mankind has been trampled on at will.

Wrong. Check out Koran. Find out how many revision and changes have happened in history.


The terrorism that has been spawned by Islamic fundamentalists are but their view that their Islamic history and thought is being trampled upon! They claim that their glorious days of the Islamic Empire was trampled up and was reduced to a postage stamp because of conspiracies. That is their view. One does not know how far that is right.

Their glory days are tyranny for others. There is nothing which other countries faced have to say good things about it.


Rather extreme a view.

Till 10th Century, interpretation was allowed.

However, do let me know has the Bible or the Hindu mythologies ever been changed to suit the situation?

Interpretation has been entirely an individual choice. I presume the same is applicable to many Muslims too. Jinnah ate pork!

One must attempt to change the mindset and not drive chaps up the wall so that they get belligerent and obtuse!

Modi has been made a villain. The more they do so, the more successful he becomes since all Gujaratis close rank.
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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby svinayak » 16 Jan 2010 11:05

:rotfl: :lol:

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby RayC » 16 Jan 2010 11:11

The ideal mode is Speak softly, but carry a Big Stick!

In spite of all the effort by various agencies, media, politicians et al to get Modi to do things that are not PC, but have they been able to do so? He speaks softly, but ensures that what he wants, he gets!

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 17 Jan 2010 19:51

Jyoti Basu passes away. What does it signify for the eastern part of the subcontinent? On the surface - not much. There will be outpouring of public grief, and expressions and visibility in the last rites from all across the political spectrum.

The passing away of a politician who has dominated the regional scene can appear to consolidate the political fortunes of the regime he was associated with. But in WB, a similar thing happened when B.C Roy passed away. Within five years of that the Congress government was tottering in WB. Yes, it also coincided with a change of generational guard within the Congress coteries at Delhi - so its impact was much higher. In the case of JB, the situation is radically different. The left is no longer formally a part of the Congress led grouping and therefore no central extension of the "stability" (smooth transition in sight for the generational leadership change as far as Congress is concerned) assurance to the Left Front.

What will be significant will be the possible visits or representations from BD on occasion of the funeral. And JB's passing away can be an occasion for political forces in the eastern region, including from BD and the "centre" to come to an exchange of assurances.

Politically, the Congress gameplan appears to be to bring back regional alignments into direct central control. For this they have to encourage both MB and the Left, while keeping the Congress slightly in the background (also ground conditions rule out any solo performance). Formally, the central leadership will back MB to bid for power, while they will keep the Left hanging too with what could be called "back channel diplomacy" to keep MB occupied. So the elections will probably throw up a reduced Left - but not necessarily a wiped off Left. The best possible scenario will be where MB and Left are equally balanced - and Congress can play the spoiler for both. Ultimately they would want MB to become a regional leader only, and in time - her legacy is likely to fade. The Left in the current hybrid Stalinist-parliamentary form is on the way out. Either it reinvents itself along a more open Labour/Socialist model or it concedes the ideological leadership to the Maoists. Congress probably hopes to restrict the troublesome "Bengali" like it did throughout Congress history - to WB. This is the long tragic history of North+Western interest dominated Congress's interaction with Bengal - its dominat coterie always appear to be uneasy and see rivals for power in the Bengali "radicals" - from armed insurrectionists, to Bose, to B.C.Roy to Atulya Ghosh, to the first United Front, to the Left Front - and including MB - even if it does not immediately appear to be so. And this is how historically Congress has always lost the people of the region.

There are opportunities for alternatives here. The alliance and understanding now existing between MB and the Congress may not remain unchanged in character over the long term. Bengal is always "subversive" and "radical" and like the Deccan and Punjab has always been a source of trouble for the "northerners".

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Jarita » 17 Jan 2010 20:25

^^ What is your read on Aman Ka Tamasha

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby RayC » 17 Jan 2010 21:29

Notwithstanding the emotionalism associated with Indians in general and Bengalis in particular. The truth is here:

Destroyer of West Bengal

Kanchan Gupta

Had it been Jyoti Banerjee lying unattended in a filthy general ward of SSKM Hospital in Kolkata and not Jyoti Basu in the state-of-the-art ICCU of AMRI Hospital, among the swankiest and most expensive super-speciality healthcare facilities in West Bengal, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh would not have bothered to arrange for a video-conference for top doctors at AIIMS to compare notes with those attending on the former Chief Minister of West Bengal.

Jyoti Banerjee, like most of us, spent his working life paying taxes to the Government. Jyoti Basu spent the better part of his life living off tax-payers’ money — the conscience of the veteran Marxist was never pricked by the fact that he appropriated for himself a lifestyle shunned by his comrades and denied to the people of a State whose fate he presided over for a quarter century. Kalachand Roy laid what we know today as Odisha to waste in the 16th century; Jyoti Basu was the 20th century’s Kala Pahad who led West Bengal from despair to darkness, literally and metaphorically.

Uncharitable as it may sound, but there really is no reason to nurse fond memories of Jyoti Basu. In fact, there are no fond memories to recall of those days when hopelessness permeated the present and the future appeared bleak. Entire generations of educated middle-class Bengalis were forced to seek refuge in other States or migrate to America as Jyoti Basu worked overtime to first destroy West Bengal’s economy, chase out Bengali talent and then hand over a disinherited State to Burrabazar traders and wholesale merchants who overnight became ‘industrialists’ with a passion for asset-stripping and investing their ‘profits’ elsewhere. A State that was earlier referred to as ‘Sheffield of the East’ was rendered by Jyoti Basu into a vast stretch of wasteland; the Oxford English Dictionary would have been poorer by a word had he not made ‘gherao’ into an officially-sanctioned instrument of coercion; ‘load-shedding’ would have never entered into our popular lexicon had he not made it a part of daily life in West Bengal though he ensured Hindustan Park, where he stayed, was spared power cuts. It would have been churlish to grudge him the good life had he not exerted to deny it to others, except of course his son Chandan Basu who was last in the news for cheating on taxes that should have been paid on his imported fancy car.

Let it be said, and said bluntly, that Jyoti Basu’s record in office, first as Deputy Chief Minister in two successive United Front Governments beginning 1967 (for all practical purposes he was the de facto Chief Minister with a hapless Ajoy Mukherjee reduced to indulging in Gandhigiri to make his presence felt) and later as Chief Minister for nearly 25 years at the head of the Left Front Government which has been in power for 32 years now, the “longest elected Communist Government” as party commissars untiringly point out to the naïve and the novitiate, is a terrible tale of calculated destruction of West Bengal in the name of ideology. It’s easy to criticise the CPI(M) for politicising the police force and converting it into a goons brigade, but it was Jyoti Basu who initiated the process. It was he who instructed them, as Deputy Chief Minister during the disastrous UF regime, to play the role of foot soldiers of the CPI(M), first by not acting against party cadre on the rampage, and then by playing an unabashedly partisan role in industrial and agrarian disputes.

The fulsome praise that is heaped on Jyoti Basu today — he is variously described by party loyalists and those enamoured of bhadralok Marxists as a ‘humane administrator’ and ‘farsighted leader’ — is entirely misleading if not undeserving. Within the first seven months of the United Front coming to power, 43,947 workers were laid off and thousands more rendered jobless as factories were shut down following gheraos and strikes instigated and endorsed by him. The flight of capital in those initial days of emergent Marxist power amounted to Rs 2,500 million. In 1967, there were 438 ‘industrial disputes’ involving 165,000 workers and resulting in the loss of five million man hours. By 1969, there were 710 ‘industrial disputes’ involving 645,000 workers and a loss of 8.5 million man hours. That was a taste of things to come in the following decades. By the time Jyoti Basu demitted office, West Bengal had nothing to boast of except closed mills and shuttered factories; every institution and agency of the State had been subverted under his tutelage; and, the civil administration had been converted into an extension counter of the CPI(M) with babus happy to be used as doormats.

After every outrage, every criminal misdeed committed by Marxist goons or the police while he was Chief Minister, Jyoti Basu would crudely respond with a brusque “Emon to hoyei thaakey” (or, as Donald Rumsfeld would famously say, “Stuff happens!”). He did not brook any criticism of the Marich Jhapi massacre by his police in 1979 when refugees from erstwhile East Pakistan were shot dead in cold blood. Till date, nobody knows for sure how many died in that slaughter for Jyoti Basu never allowed an independent inquiry. Neither did the man whose heart bled so profusely for the lost souls of Nandigram hesitate to justify the butchery of April 30, 1982 when 16 monks and a nun of the Ananda Marg order were set ablaze in south Kolkata by a mob of Marxist thugs. The man who led that murderous lot was known for his proximity to Jyoti Basu, a fact that the CPI(M) would now hasten to deny. Nor did Jyoti Basu wince when the police shot dead 13 Congress activists a short distance from Writers’ Building on July 21, 1993; he later justified the police action, saying it was necessary to enforce the writ of the state. Yet, he wouldn’t allow the police to act every time Muslims ran riot, most infamously after Mohammedan Sporting Club lost a football match.

Did Jyoti Basu, who never smiled in public lest he was accused of displaying human emotions, ever spare a thought for those who suffered terribly during his rule? Was he sensitive to the plight of those who were robbed of their lives, limbs and dignity by the lumpen proletariat which kept him in power? Did his heart cry out when women health workers were gang-raped and then two of them murdered by his party cadre on May 17, 1990 at Bantala on the eastern margins of Kolkata? Or when office-bearers of the Kolkata Police Association, set up under his patronage, raped Nehar Banu, a poor pavement dweller, at Phulbagan police station in 1992? “Emon to hoyei thaakey,” the revered Marxist would say, and then go on to slyly insinuate that the victims deserved what they got.

As a Bengali, I grieve for the wasted decades but for which West Bengal, with its huge pool of talent, could have led India from the front. I feel nothing for Jyoti Basu.

-- Follow the writer on: http://twitter.com/KanchanGupta. Blog on this and other issues at http://kanchangupta.blogspot.com. Write to him at kanchangupta@rocketmail.com
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Bullet destoyer of West Bengal
By velcheti on 1/16/2010 9:10:45 AM

Kudos to Shri Kanchan Gupata for unmasking this bogus Marxist, who ruined West Bengal. No tears for Jyothi Basu, his end is a sigh of relief for true Bengalies.

Bullet The hypocrite
By Debashis on 1/15/2010 3:26:28 PM

So very true Kanchanda, its a classic example of the slow poisining of a state, depriving people of human rights and outraging the modesty of a million aspirations that he should be tried for!

Bullet Jyoti Basu, the aparatchik communist leader
By Shyamal on 1/15/2010 12:22:39 AM

It wasn’t that the people of Bengal did not admire Basu’s stature — it was the rest of him that they disapproved of. The general view then was that while he was a well-educated bhadralok (unlike the north Indian politicians whom Bengalis love to despise), his reputation outside the state was based on hot air. His credentials as a man of the people were dented by his love of the good life, by the annual trip to London in the summer (always on some pretext; it was never described as a holiday).

JB


I wont be uncharitable. He did land reforms!

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Jarita » 17 Jan 2010 22:01

Declassified documents on treason by Indian Communists - Jyoti Basu is mentioned

http://www.scribd.com/doc/25337909/Decl ... Communists

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Jarita » 17 Jan 2010 23:06

Well China does not seem to be giving too much patta to the guy

KanchanGupta Ironically Radio Peking described JB as 'running dog of imperialism'.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 18 Jan 2010 05:18

For the future interest in India, China cannot rely much on the "Parliamentarian Left". The Left has failed crucially in preventing the US-connection and strategic understanding with GOI. The nuclear "understanding" also could not be jeopardized. The Left's future power over any future GOI is dubious. Its regional powerbase is also becoming unreliable. For China, the Maoists represent a better "leftist" choice to destabilize or weaken those areas of the Indian rashtra that suits Chinese elites' imperialist agenda. China is more likely to encourage ethnic and religious separatists and Maoist violence through indirect means as it impedes economic growth, ties up rashtryia security apparatus and in general creates trauma in subgroups - so crucial to disconnect the people from their "rashtra".

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Jarita » 18 Jan 2010 22:12

Looks like this govt. is hell bent on dividing the country into bits and pieces

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Mi ... st/568820/

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2010 22:37

I think MKN being appointed governor of WB has something to do with post-Basu politics of the state. Lets see or parkalaam.


Meanwhile
Politico-Econmic Op-Ed in Pioneer by Arun Nehru...

SOURCE

EDITS | Monday, January 18, 2010 | Email | Print |


Happy days are here again

Arun Nehru

The global economy is showing signs of recovery and 2010 may turn out to be a very good year. Instinct tells me that both India and China will produce surprising results in 2010 and we may well be heading for eight per cent-plus growth in the current year and nine per cent-plus in 2011. The challenges are many and, as I have mentioned earlier, the distribution of power, both political and economic, between the West and the East will acquire greater parity. Sadly, there is a sense of denial regarding this ground reality which is manifesting itself in the form of pressure points.

The changes will be dramatic as the GDP in India will grow at four to five per cent higher than the GDP in the West. By taking into account our saving rate of 35 to 40 per cent and the upward migration of 30 to 40 million into the middle class every year, we may be looking at a middle class market in the excess of 600 million in the next decade. This exceeds the population of the US and the Western world. The sensible and mature view is that in a globalised economy every country benefits from each other. In that sense it is heartening to see the developed world make significant cross investments. India too is making huge investments in acquiring assets abroad.

We must always keep the big picture in mind and try to understand the implications of change and not give in to arrogance. The challenges are many. A GDP growth of nine per cent over the next five years has serious implications for the future. We will witness an explosion of demand in every field and I will be surprised if this demand does not outstrip supply. Along with China, we will emerge as the biggest market for the global community. We have a favorable demographic ratio and for our youngsters the opportunities which exist today are limitless. We must take full advantage of the benefits of globalisation. The reality today is that no country can benefit by adopting protectionist policies. A global shift in political power has already taken place in many fields and economic and social change will soon follow.

.......




And will alos x-post Theo-Fidel's map of migration and per captia income.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby ramana » 18 Jan 2010 22:39

Think about this....

-------
Brilliant Theo! Explains the Bangla Deshi migration into India. We can soon expect a flood from TSP as they collapse. No wonder Aman ki Tamasha is going on.

Again shows need for peaceful implosion of Pakistan ideology is needed.

Thanks again!

Theo_Fidel wrote:This is a much more legitimate question than many here may realize.

In under 5 years the per Capita GDP of India, esp. the prosperous west will be 5-6 times the per capita GDP of Pakistan. Presently it is about 2.5 - 3 times.

Some thing strange happens to the migration patterns of people once the imbalance reaches 5 times. The opportunity pull becomes too strong.

Take a look at this map of the present migration pattern around the world.

Image

Also look at the NY times map.

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/world/200706 ... APHIC.html

Take special note of the Mexico to US, East Europe to West Europe, Africa to South Africa and Indonesia to Malaysia dynamics.

All of these are in the 5-10 times GDP imbalance w/ cultural familiarity.

Once the "mental map" is created by the vanguard it will be almost impossible to stop.

Existing population density is disregarded almost completely.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2010 02:30

So in the period of tenth century through the seventeenth centuries, India with its large wealth must have been the magnet attracting the hordes for the very same reasons.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 21 Jan 2010 05:14

The GDP share (India relative to the world) has been steadily decreasing from the Mauryan times according to current estimates. China has also kept pace more or less following Indian GDP estimates quite closely. But it has been much more successful at reversing invasions and colonization attempts. For India, a high GDP growth appears to come before destructive invasions and stagnation.

Approximate share in world GDP - Mauryan -33%, 1st century - (after central Asian visitors) - 32%, Gupta-Vakataka period - 28% (post Kushan), but remarkabley still around 28% for the Palas ! Even after supposed Hunas overran north and west. But then comes 24% around the 1000 CE - after glorious peaceful migrations of Turko-Afghans. The Maurya -Gupta decline can be partially accounted for by a reduction of territory. But the decline from Palas to the Ghaznavids comes without much reduction in comparative territory (GDP from the same area).The Delhi Sultans manage to reduce further to around 22% by the 1500's even though they expand back in territiory to a certain extent. By 1600's territory under Mughals increase further and share goes slightly up to around 24%. But then again declines over the span of the rule of glorious Mughals by 1700's to 22% even though territory continues to increase. Goes on declining till 1800's with the steep drop under the Brits to the 10-20 range. But part of that is also explained by a phenomenal rise in world productivity in some other regions.

What would be crucial is that India simultaneously develops the capacity to impose its will on the neighbourhood from which destabilizing/invading forces are likely to come. Almost always, there appears to be an inability to project power beyond its existing territory - while developing the economy - and this has inevitably cuased the ultimate retreat and folding back of the economic growth.

It can perhaps be compared to the tactic of human management of beehives for extraction of honey. Indians, like the bees, gather and accumulate the honey in the hive. When the hive is ripe and full, the humans in the neighbourhood who have been watching and waiting and allowing the bees to work away, smoke the bees out.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Rony » 21 Jan 2010 13:18

If i am not wrong, brihaspati garu was alluding to this point some time back. Giving more importance to our "diversity" compared to the underlying uniformity beneath it is not in our interests.

India needs strong brand strategy, says Oxford expert

The brand challenge for India is to develop a strategy that presents a uniform national identity alongside internal diversity ... A fragmented image is not a powerful one, and the image of any country needs strong brand management led from the top," he wrote

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 21 Jan 2010 21:42

Rony ji, many thanks for the link! Underlying uniformity actually creates the image of reliability, stability and consistency. My only objection is to diversity being stretched infinitely to create space for any and everything. There has to be boundaries beyond which compromises are unacceptable.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby ramana » 21 Jan 2010 22:04

Rony wrote:If i am not wrong, brihaspati garu was alluding to this point some time back. Giving more importance to our "diversity" compared to the underlying uniformity beneath it is not in our interests.

India needs strong brand strategy, says Oxford expert




India needs strong brand strategy, says Oxford expert

Prasun Sonwalkar/PTI / London January 20, 2010, 17:28 IST

India needs to develop a strong brand strategy now to benefit from its growing importance in the global economy, according to a senior academic at the University of Oxford.

Paul Temporal, based at the university’s Said Business School, wrote in a research paper that India needs to differentiate itself from China, ASEAN, Japan and other countries and clusters that were competing for investment, talent, tourism and exports.

"The brand challenge for India is to develop a strategy that presents a uniform national identity alongside internal diversity ... A fragmented image is not a powerful one, and the image of any country needs strong brand management led from the top," he wrote.

Stating that the branding of countries was now fast becoming a constant agenda item in cabinet meetings, Temporal said although India has positive growth and massive potential, it will continue to be faced with intense competition from China and others.

India, he said, had not been immune to the global recession but had not been "badly wounded" by it. "So, efforts to brand India now will ensure that when global markets recover, as they undoubtedly will, India will be first out of the blocks.

To delay will not be catastrophic, but it may place India further behind the competition in the longer term," he wrote. Image, he wrote, cannot be built by advertising and promotions but via astute policy change management based on the needs of 'customers'.

These include greater ease of doing business, less bureaucracy, visa facilitation, improved security and improvements to infrastructure are among the policy issues that countries.

"All such 'touch points' a nation has with the outside world influence the total perceptions that make up its image. Policies and diplomacy change a country's national image, not tactical communications campaigns," Temporal wrote.

According to him, India's diversity can be advantageous for areas such as tourism. India's rising industries such as automobiles, IT and pharmaceuticals were powerful brand image vectors while its corporations were strong brand ambassadors.

"Beyond the obvious there are also substantial opportunities for branding in more traditional product categories such as Kashmiri clothing and basmati rice, but the strengths of all these 'sub-brands' need to be channelled into, and driven by, a master brand strategy required to build the India of the future," Temporal wrote.



Even though its written by a business school professor, the lessons do apply in strategic areas too. And Indian leaders were aware of creating a new identity "India that is Bharat" and "Unity in diversity", soon after Independence when they got derailed by the 1962 China war and then the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in West Asia led to competing visions of Indian identity. Right now there is tussle between pseudo-secular and Hindutva identity both of which regardless of the grand schemes have to face the ground reality of the diversty in language, religion and culture in Indian sub-continent.

All the examples he gives: China et al, are of homogenous or dominant population groups so those examples dont hold water for India. Infact India was unique in modern times to create a new idenity over such diversity without the tyranny of a dominant social group. It is only after the rise of India that EU is getting some traction as are NAFTA and other economci groupings.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 21 Jan 2010 22:19

The Chinese homogeneity could be a post Communist takeover myth - deliberately reconstructed. There were fierce contests over cultural identities before. The CPC had a policy of explicitly suppressing any references to "heterogeneity" from their propaganda material - from 1934-37.

Their only advantage appears to be freedom from "religious conflict". But according to current theory - there was never any religious conflict between the largest and the second largest faith communities in India. If that was happening for almost a thousand years, surely just 200 odd years of British induced "divisions" - could not disrupt the essentially amicable, syncretic identity that had been so firmly entrenched. There has been no known large scale sectarian violences either, within the majority community for centuries. So religious diversity could not be an excuse for India.

Not much violence about language issues either as long as the Brits were there. The drama seems to be intensified only after Indpendence.
Last edited by brihaspati on 21 Jan 2010 22:27, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby RamaY » 21 Jan 2010 22:27

Taking it to a different plane, Bharat offers a unique solution to Pak-Af problem. It offers the ideology, leadership-will, capabilities, and space to counter the chaos that are emanating from paki-lands destabilizing entire world. India’s solution to Pak-Af quagmire could be (in that order)

1. De-nuclearization of TSP
2. Balkanization of TSP
3. De-drafting of TSPA (similar to Iraqui Army)
4. Balkanization of Afghanistan
5. Economic and cultural unification of Pakthunwa and Pashtun-afghan regions
6. Economic unification of Sindh and Balochistan
7. Economic + Geographical unification of POK+NA with Indian state of J&K
8. Economic and political integration of all these semi-autonomous regions with Bharat.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby svinayak » 21 Jan 2010 22:49

ramana wrote:
Even though its written by a business school professor, the lessons do apply in strategic areas too. And Indian leaders were aware of creating a new identity "India that is Bharat"

India does not need a British to give them advice on Indian identity and brand. Colonial British have created their own version of the India brand and India/Hinduism image which they have spread to the rest of the world for their global benefit and global trade. WASP world has used the India image for the last 200 years for their benefit.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby brihaspati » 21 Jan 2010 23:10

RamaY wrote
Taking it to a different plane, Bharat offers a unique solution to Pak-Af problem. It offers the ideology, leadership-will, capabilities, and space to counter the chaos that are emanating from paki-lands destabilizing entire world. India’s solution to Pak-Af quagmire could be (in that order)


Ideology maybe, but leadership-will, capabilities? Where do you see it? :P

1. De-nuclearization of TSP
2. Balkanization of TSP
3. De-drafting of TSPA (similar to Iraqui Army)

Probably has to be simultaneous if to be at all succesful. Doing anyone of them with out the other two will be much too costly for India - as she will be pressurized to give heavy concessions.

4. Balkanization of Afghanistan


Good tactical point. But we do not have the means to really effect this without contiguous land borders. That means dissolution of TSP altogether and Indian borders reaching AFG in the west.
5. Economic and cultural unification of Pakthunwa and Pashtun-afghan regions
6. Economic unification of Sindh and Balochistan
7. Economic + Geographical unification of POK+NA with Indian state of J&K
8. Economic and political integration of all these semi-autonomous regions with Bharat.


Again, will they be possible without total military emasculation of TSP? As long as it exists as a rashtra it will be too costly in terms of concessions from India. Even the most liberal of TSP commentators typicaly insist on "Muslim nationalism" as the foundational principle of TSP being correct even though they formally reject "Muslim fundamentalism/extremism". That mentality can never accommodate coexistence with a non-Muslim-nationalist neighbour with a large Muslim subpopulation. Moreover as long as the rashtra continues to exist it will protect the reproduction of this mentality through religious education, standard education and the media.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

Postby Jarita » 21 Jan 2010 23:14

India does not need a British to give them advice on Indian identity and brand. Colonial British have created their own version of the India brand and India/Hinduism image which they have spread to the rest of the world for their global benefit and global trade. WASP world has used the India image for the last 200 years for their benefit.




And they have also created two brands of "economics" one for themselves and one for the third world where they want to invest. Let me explain

Free market is good - trade should move freely
- Themselves - Farmer subsidies and incentives.
- Others - you are hurting trade by not letting us in into your piss poor countries where farmers can barely make ends meet by growing the most beautiful cotton in the world. We will swap that for our defective GMOed cotton at dirt cheap prices (since it is subsidiezed + cost of entry). Later when we buy your land to build more of our types of firms we will increase the price.


You should privitise. Privitization will allow greater efficiencies, more moolah, trickle down effec through skills and money blah! blah! blah!

- Themselves - US govt owns large swathes of land in US with oil and gas. The private cos are heavily regulated.The oil and gas is not being extracted right now. This is all over Europe etc
- Others - Sell off your mineral and oil reserves under swathes of virgin forests. We will use militias to intimidate and get rid of the native people. You will get dirt cheap prices for the resources. We will make huge profits by converting ores into finished products sold at 30 times the price in our country.



I could go on and on about this. What is funny is how many Indians have bought into this hypocrisy. They will keep quoting free market etc without a real comprehension of issues. Free market does not exist buddy.
Even some supercilious media persons and bloggers wll throw this nonsense around.


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