Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -II

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Vamsee » 15 Apr 2014 23:39

X-posted
========
It is clear by now that the entire Anglo-Saxon west is unusually interested in this elections and decisively against NaMo and in favor of anyone other than NaMo. This is quite alarming. West is suspecting that the entire leverage that they earned over many decades might vanish. They are hell bent on keeping that leverage.
Islamic nations are anyway not going to be happy with NaMo Led India.
Not sure how NaMo is going to handle this onslaught both internally and externally.
He has good relationships with Far-East. Will it be enough?
Will the internal & external pressures convert him into Nehruism? What will it mean for India?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby ramana » 16 Apr 2014 00:26

X-Post...
RamaY wrote:SwamyG garu,

We need to look at this from multiple dimensions because this topic falls into Strategic Leadership.

Q1: How many power centers should India have?
Constitution says ONE and that is PMO. But Baru says MMS agreed that there were two contenders for this, PMO & SG, and he conceded that he would be subservient to SG because (a) there cannot be two power centers and (b) He cannot over rule SG.

Since independence we have very few such situations. Almost all PMs (JLN, LBS, IG, RG, PVNR, ABV etc) ensured that this cardinal rule (Rubicon of Indian soverginity :( ) is not compromised. If we look back in recent history few PMs got into this issue. PVNR was the first scenario and he made a choice to keep this power center in PMO and kept the 10JP at a distance. That is the main reason behind dynasty's hatred towards him. The temporary PMs like MD, IKG, DG and CS tried to keep the power center in PMO and resigned when it became untenable.

But MMS made a different choice from his predecessors. He made a conscious choice to let the center of Govt of India to move out of PMO to 10JP.

People can give different justifications for this reality but it is nothing but breach of constitution & treason IMHO. What next, move the GoI's center of Power to Ulan Bator; because there cant be two (conflicting) power centers in international relations? Isn't it the underlying rationale behind A-Paki-ki-Asha when people said 11/26 is a response to Babri/Gujarat issues (that Pakistan has a say in how Indian Muslims are treated or not and it can use 11/26 or even Nukes to correct law-and-order issues like Gujarat)

Q2: Who got the public mandate in 2004/2009?
Responding to Baru's book "Abhishek Manu Singhvi" tells us that MMS repeatedly mentioned that 2004 mandate was for Congress party and SG and not for him. So the question is who and how the PM of India should get the public mandate? He used this to justify the moving of GoI center of power from PMO to 10JP.

This questions the whole basis of Indian democracy. What if tomorrow a group of Indian Americans in Canada start a political party (Please note that INC was created by British MPs who wanted to contest British elections in one of its dominions, India; same as a UP party BSP fielding candidates in AP) and gets majority and puts a nominated candidate in India while the core power center remains in Canada away from Indian jurisdiction?

Mark my words we will see this transformation happen overtly in next 5-10 years with things like dual-citizenship and Greencards. Already 90+% of politicians have one of their close family members living or have business interests outside India.

Q3: What should be the Agenda of PM and GoI & in whose interests?
This is the second question Baru tried to answer. He clearly says that MMS put his foot down on only three issues (1) Nuke deal (2) FDI in Retail & (3) A-Paki-ki-Asha. If proven correct, using logic given in point 1 above, all other decisions of GoI between 2004-2014 can be called unconstitutional.

Now we need to go into Congress's 2004/2009 manifesto and see if any of these items are mentioned there and MMS/Congress got his mandate for them. But we all know that a political party cannot and will not put all its 5-yr action plan in the manifesto and get public mandate on that basis alone.

The political dispensation in power is expected to respond to changing internal and external environments and make a choice based on Indian Interests and Indian Interests alone. Now given Baru's revelations and Abhishek Singhvi's explanation above, can India be sure of that?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Philip » 16 Apr 2014 01:52

It is clear now,what we've been saying on BR for many years,that "Surrender Singh" surrendered the Prime Ministership of India to extra-constitutional entities both within and without the country! That is a total dereliction of duty and betrayal of his sacred trust and oath of office.If this is not treason then what is?

Should Singh be tried for treason by the new dispensation?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Prem » 16 Apr 2014 03:19

To be fair, On Nuke deal even BRF was in fix. FDI in retail can be debated as devil will be in teh detail. Its the Third Haram KI Aasha along with Siachin Surrender Scam which can clearly be considered treachery of high level. MMS did this knowingly just like he brought the economical ruins deliberately for short term political gains.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby SRoy » 16 Apr 2014 11:32

^^

BRF at large was never in a fix.
It were a few loudmouth trolls that manage to paint as if a good number of people were supportive of the Nuke deal.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Singha » 16 Apr 2014 12:21

what I recall, initially most were supportive...then a lot of people had reservations and backed out and became quiet when it became apparent none of the supposed benefits of the deal were forthcoming.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby SRoy » 16 Apr 2014 12:29

yes, I was talking of that stage when details became clearer

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby merlin » 16 Apr 2014 16:13

I think most people stopped supporting the deal after the Hyde act exposed the duplicity in Duplicitee.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby nandakumar » 16 Apr 2014 16:40

In my opinion, the nuclear deal with the US was really about accessing uranium supplies from the global market. the Jharsaguda mines output was simply not enough to feed the modest requirement of uranium for the domestic nuclear energy programme. But imports would not have been possible without the US actively canvassing with the NSG. The US and the French were rather naive in believing that orders for nuclear plants would happen once the deal was signed. But the Atomic Energy Commission was more realistic about the prospects of new projects coming up given the environmental and land acquisition issues.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby brihaspati » 11 May 2014 07:22

Anti-Assad rebels had to be evacuated from Homs. While East Ukraine probably going on with referendum today and likely to start the long/or short journey towards secession. So Jihadis from Syria will need gym space next. Kashmir Valley and Taleb forces - next round?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby brihaspati » 19 Jun 2014 04:50

Many factors come together to point that jihad from Pak-AFG will be allowed to turn towards India by all the external forces

Saudis know that jihad will turn back to bite house of Saud, if they are not expended elsewhere. Afghans, and their developed western connections would prefer Talebs to be expended outside AFG.
USA/UK will want to stop jihad actually hurting Sauds, but protect Pakistan as their destabilization asset in subcontinent. PA leaders know that keeping the ISIS-Taleb/Pak jihadis inside Pak for long also trouble, so will push them towards India. PA/ISI/Mullahs have been preparing to turn Pak into overt jihad. PA will split with dominant section joining jihad. China would like to keep India tied down. Indian ulema loses nothing either way. So all forces converge.

Gandhi-Nehru played as moderate alternative to violent extermination of Brits, current state can use Hindu backlash on jihad to postpone the inevitable move from the west of India.

There should be a second line of defence in the people, when necessary, to take up arms, and also to stop thinking of the enemy as human. They have to be liquidated. Clear and simple. A regular "secularly" conditioned army may not have the psychological inclinations to unleash the counter-sadism that is required to stop jihad. Jihadis see any less-sadistic opposition than their own methods as signs of weakness, and that such a "weak" army will not be able to bring itself to the point of violence that paralyzes the victim, and all his support bases.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Prem » 19 Jun 2014 05:20

B Sir ji, Many in Pak and few in their"fourfathers" circle fear and know that End of ROPE is destined by the Dharmic hands. As i said before, this coming of Bharat will be kin to USA after Second World War. Desert brain and Tropical Mind will always remain apart like night and day.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Manish_Sharma » 19 Jun 2014 06:21

SRoy wrote:^^

BRF at large was never in a fix.
It were a few loudmouth trolls that manage to paint as if a good number of people were supportive of the Nuke deal.


Time proved how correct Arun_S was and has been on these issues.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Manish_Sharma » 19 Jun 2014 07:00

brihaspati wrote:Gandhi-Nehru played as moderate alternative to violent extermination of Brits, current state can use Hindu backlash on jihad to postpone the inevitable move from the west of India.


Brihaspati ji, I don't understand the red bold part, could you please explain.

My father is Lahore born in 1933, he says that a year and half before the partition, muslims in lahore started a new thing. In those days like muslim taajiyaas the Hindus used to have Jhaankis (procession) of Shivaji maratha, Rana Pratap and other national heros. at the time of jhaankis the muslim kasaais (butcher) came in groups mingled with people and would just stab non-muslims at random. Then they'll just disappear into a mosque.

From this 'jhaanki' episode they started doing it regularly, then RSS also retaliated but more openly with swords.

The SHO of Rangmahal Chowk, Machhi Hatta, Luhari darwaza, was a guy called cheema who was a muslim. The fight started in Rangmahal Chowk and a very strong and famous Hindu wrestler (unfortunately my father forgot his name) died fighting with sword against hoards of muslims.

On one side of Rangmahal Chowk was Machhi Hatta, ShahAlmi darwaza and Luhari darwazaa a dominant Hindu area and the other side was muslim area. The magistrate was also muslim. Then RSS people retaliated going from roof to roof crossing Rangmahal chowk with fire arrows and showered muslim area with them.

Then seeing muslims losing the battle miserably the muslim magistrate and SHO put up an 'curfew order' but what curfew? Being majority in police the muslims came and while Hindus were inside following curfew they attacked and burnt so many shops and house in Luhari darwaza, Machhi Hatta, ShahAlmi Darwazaa area.

But my father says that time Hindus were not as unarmed as today, so they had means to protect their homes with Axes, swords etc.

As the balance went in favour of muslims due to SHO cheema and muslim magistrate + curfew, the RSS found a new way to STRIKE BACK, they went to muslim areas in police jeeps and dressed as policemen armed with rifles, and started shooting plus fires, funny even muslim policeman ran away instead of fighting (so much for their bahaduri) :)

==================================
This story is told by my father a couple of years back.

My mother before she passed away heard me tell this story to a friend on phone when the phone call finished she told me "Pitaji was in RSS and part of that attack...." (my father was an RSS man and he was part of the group that attacked)
8)

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby brihaspati » 20 Jun 2014 06:36

MKG/Nehru basically posed themselves as a moderate alternative to transfer power to, compared to more radical anti-brits. One just has to follow the various speeches the duo gave from 1945-end of 46, urging youth/students/"mass" to return "home" away from demo's/agitations and leave the task of "leading" to those who "know how to lead". As well as their publicly revealed communications both among themselves as well as to Brits.

The fear that the Brits always have is being seen as militarily thrashed/chased out. Their long paranoia of living under shadow of more resourceful European powers, perhaps makes them desperate to be seen as militarily invincible. So fear of a potential military uprising, (as indicated by anecdotal evidence) or more radical anti-Brit political forces gaining state power - both sped up the process of transfer of power to the duo (or "the one", the other having perhaps been decided to be assassinated as potentially unstable/unreliable/outlived utility!).

What I obliquely indicated is an understanding conveyed to the jihadis to our west (or for that matter the Han imperialists, who surely "survey" our forum), that their interests are best served by not damaging the current Indian state, with its still intact Brit-raj period inherited mindsets/institutional thinking/approaches/towards favourable bias on Left/"secular"/Islamic/Christian and anti-Hindu. If they damage this state hoping to overthrow the state to expand territorially or otherwise, they will clear the way for a more ruthless Hindu backlash that will match or surpass Jihadi/Communist/Christian-west inspired sadism.

Current or immediate future Indian state leaders can use the threat of this potential to make the jihadis indefinitely postpone their moves on India.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Prem » 21 Jun 2014 09:41

I think this belong here for Understanding sake ..

http://hindusamhati.blogspot.co.uk/2013 ... re-on.html
Thoughts of Rabindranath Tagore on Hindu-Muslim Relations

Christianity and Islam determined to destroy all other Religions: There are two religions in earth, which have distinct enmity against all other religions. These two are Christianity and Islam. They are not just satisfied with observing their own religions, but are determined to destroy all other religions. That's why the only way to make peace with them is to embrace their religions." (Original works of Rabindranath Vol. 24 pages 375, Vishwa Bharti; 1982)

Muslims can not confine their `Patriotism to any one country' : a very important factor which is making it almost impossible for Hindu-Muslim unity to become an accomplished fact is that the Muslims can not confine their patriotism to any one country. I had frankly asked (the Muslims) whether in the event of any Mohammedan power invading India, they (Muslims) would stand side by side with their Hindu neighbours to defend their common land. I was not satisfied with the reply I got from them… Even such a man as Mr. Mohammad Ali (one of the famous Ali brothers, the leaders of the Khilafat Movement-the compiler) has declared that under no circumstances is it permissible for any Mohammedan, whatever be his country, to stand against any Mohammedan." (Interview of Rabindranath in `Times of India', 18-4-1924 in the column, `Through Indian Eyes on the Post Khilafat Hindu Muslim Riots)

Hindus and Muslims can make a fake friendship: Whenever a Muslim called upon the Muslim society, he never faced any resistance- he called in the name of one God `Allah-ho-Akbar'. On the other hand, when we (Hindus) call will call, `come on, Hindus', who will respond? We, the Hindus, are divided in numerous small communities, many barriers-provincialism - who will respond overcoming all these obstacles?
"We suffered from many dangers, but we could never be united. When Mohammed Ghouri brought the first blow from outside, the Hindus could not be united, even in the those days of imminent danger. When the Muslims started to demolish the temples one after another, and to break the idols of Gods and Goddesses, the Hindus fought and died in small units, but they could not be united. It has been provided that we were killed in different ages due to our discord.
"Weakness harbours sin. So, if the Muslims beat us and we, the Hindus, tolerate this without resistance-then, we will know that it is made possible only by our weakness. For the sake of ourselves and our neighbour Muslims also, we have to discard our weakness. We can appeal to our neighbour Muslims, `Please don't be cruel to us. No religion can be based on genocide' - but this kind of appeal is nothing, but the weeping of the weak person. When the low pressure is created in the air, storm comes spontaneously; nobody can stop it for sake for religion. Similarly, if weakness is cherished and be allowed to exist, torture comes automatically - nobody can stop it. Possibly, the Hindus and the Muslims can make a fake friendship to each other for a while, but that cannot last forever. As long as you don't purify the soil, which grows only thorny shrubs you cannot expect any fruit. " (The above is the part of the article "Swamy Shraddhananda', written by Rabindranath in Magh, 1333 Bangabda; compiled in the book 'Kalantar')

Own religion true-others are false: "When two-three different religions claim that only their own religions are true and all other religions are false, their religions are only ways to Heaven, conflicts can not be avoided. Thus, fundamentalism tries to abolish all other religions. This is called Bolshevism in religion. Only the path shown by the Hinduism can relieve the world form this meanness." (The above is the part of the article `Aatmaparichapa' in his book `Parichaya')Make your children strong: The terrible situation of the country makes my mind restless and I cannot keep silent. Meaningless ritual keep the Hindus divided in hundred sects. Sop we are suffering from series of defeats. We are tired and worn-out by the fortunes by the internal external enemies. The Muslims are united in religion and rituals. The Bengali Muslims the South Indian Muslims and even the Muslims outside India-all are united. They always stand untied in face of danger. The broken and divided Hindus will not be able to combat them. Days are coming when the Hindus will be again humiliated by the Muslims. "You are a mother of children, one day you will die, passing the future of Hindus society on the weak shoulders of your children, but think about their future." (From the letter to Hemantabala Sarkar, written on 16the October, 1933, quoted in Bengali weekly `Swastika', 21-6-1999)

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby KrishnaK » 21 Jun 2014 11:47

brihaspati wrote: What I obliquely indicated is an understanding conveyed to the jihadis to our west (or for that matter the Han imperialists, who surely "survey" our forum), that their interests are best served by not damaging the current Indian state, with its still intact Brit-raj period inherited mindsets/institutional thinking/approaches/towards favourable bias on Left/"secular"/Islamic/Christian and anti-Hindu. If they damage this state hoping to overthrow the state to expand territorially or otherwise, they will clear the way for a more ruthless Hindu backlash that will match or surpass Jihadi/Communist/Christian-west inspired sadism.

Current or immediate future Indian state leaders can use the threat of this potential to make the jihadis indefinitely postpone their moves on India.
:rotfl:

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby brihaspati » 24 Jun 2014 04:51

Well but did Rabindranath himself really come out entirely from his Brahmo sectarianism?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby member_23692 » 02 Jul 2014 16:43

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-a-global-military-power-by-2045-says-uk-study/article1-1235945.aspx

Thats it, it is official now. India will be a military super power by 2045. Now that Britain has certified it. They are among the very few who can look that far out. Our friends, the US is another. One study done in University of South Dakota even concluded that we will be an ECONOMIC and MILITARY superpower by 2080, surpassing the US.

That is great news indeed. We dont have to do anything now, just sit back and wait for our turn. Some economists I met at a pharmacy in North Carolina during a visit there three months ago, were absolutely certain that 10% growth will return to India by 2030, latest by 2035, if not earlier, barring anything unforseen, assuming everything goes as per current trend and the world situation stays calm. More good news !

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby panduranghari » 02 Jul 2014 17:45

KrishnaK wrote:
brihaspati wrote: What I obliquely indicated is an understanding conveyed to the jihadis to our west (or for that matter the Han imperialists, who surely "survey" our forum), that their interests are best served by not damaging the current Indian state, with its still intact Brit-raj period inherited mindsets/institutional thinking/approaches/towards favourable bias on Left/"secular"/Islamic/Christian and anti-Hindu. If they damage this state hoping to overthrow the state to expand territorially or otherwise, they will clear the way for a more ruthless Hindu backlash that will match or surpass Jihadi/Communist/Christian-west inspired sadism.

Current or immediate future Indian state leaders can use the threat of this potential to make the jihadis indefinitely postpone their moves on India.
:rotfl:


I dont understand why the reaction to the above post was - :rotfl: ?

There is a certain logic to the assertion. Care to make us understand?

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby brihaspati » 03 Jul 2014 03:40

It will be extremely difficult, or perhaps not even wanted - to stop the ISIS from expanding. Only thing that will stop them is a concerted externally mounted encircle-eliminate-annihilation campaign. But the west cannot do it as along as it needs the Saudis on their side, and Saudis want ISIS to expand.

At a certain stage ISIS will devour its patron - the Saudis, but that is way into the future. Moreover, such a swallowing of their patron will be selective, mainly factions of the Saudi royalty would be targeted (again perhaps in full consultation with those within the Saudi regime and in the west, involved in the whole Caliphate programme), and not the entire Saudi regime. Any such encounter will actually preserve the Saudi mullahcracy and enhance their power. At the moment, ISIS will act the faithful dog, and will expand west and east to Syria/Turkey/egypt and southern Iran, Pak and Afg.

I don't think India has the ideological preparation to stop either the Talebs or the ISIS types, even if it may manage to hold off for sometime by military means. To deal with the jihadi one has to think interms of exterminating and erasing pests/rats etc. It needs dehumanizing the Jihadi, and be prepared to annihilate them in every possible way, including all their ideological infrastructure. A war or sustained campaign that systematically erases all "living" support bases/sources for Jihad. That mentality is a long way off yet from the Indian mind.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby member_20317 » 03 Jul 2014 10:25

Sometime back in a Shia owned naayee ki dukan (barber shop' clientele, names, general ambiance suggested strongly the Shia ownership), I found a young man who had come with a girl child. The man was watching the video of the heart being cut and taken out with the faithfuls crying AoA around. Probably got it on SM.

There really is something sick going on outside our direct vision. God only knows how many Hindus (also other Indics) have had this treatment but while those who can deal with it deal with it in their own ways, you would hardly ever find the details (purportedly gory - the man was already dead) being purveyed in bazaar.

The extermination you suggest is a must do but there is an equally more important aspect of dealing with this hyper-activism within our country. If not handled with foresight this will destroy the focus of our people and hand over a win without even a fight.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby brihaspati » 05 Jul 2014 00:06

Personally, I have never flinched from facing such incidents/situations. There is a hardening of attitudes, thats needed. An unflinching determination, not just and not preferably merely hatred. Its about the need to correct an error made by our ancestors, either by themselves or by allowing/tolerating others to make so.

Also a mental preparation based on current age group, as to what to prepare for in 10 years time, 15 years time, 20 years time etc.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby devesh » 09 Aug 2014 07:50

crosspost from West Asia thread:

Singha wrote:ISIS is scoring strong victories against the kurds and have reached a point 30 min drive from Irbil their capital.

the holy black flag has also been raised over the mosul dam.

the cozy situation with the western oil cos continuing to operate in the places like kirkuk under kurds control and pumping oil through turkey is about to change.

probably thats why obama is now ready to commit to airstrikes and christians have been outed from their ancient towns and sent packing, bringing the pope and other religious pressure groups into action.



the Central European countries should start to seriously worry right about now. they don't have the vast Atlantic Ocean to protect them from "far off scoundrels". the Jihadi sweep across the middle east should start to worry countries like Germany (and even France). they're not going to be in the pro-Jihadi mood that UK increasingly spews out.

make no mistake about it, the continental Europeans are going to start panicking just a little right about now.

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Re: Future Strategic Scenario for the Indian Subcontinent -I

Postby Rahul M » 09 Aug 2014 09:30

please start a new thread with a link to this page in its first post.


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