India-Canada, Mexico and South America: News and Discussion

[pankajs]

Interesting that the Canadian PM was forced convinced to meet with Punjab CM first before any official agenda is discussed. Threat of a washout trip was too much to take back to Ka-nada.

He will have to make his stand clear coming out of that meeting or so I hope. BTW, I am all for protocols .. no more .. no less. We can't be a rouge host. Better not to invite folks then. Best to make it an agenda less, warmth-less meet like the current trip but keep it polite.

[pankajs]

Inline with our thinking .. if this report is true.

https://theprint.in/2018/02/20/trudeau- ... -was-cold/
Trudeau wanted India visit two years ago, Modi was cold due to his Khalistan noises

The visit, informed sources told ThePrint, has been on the cards for about two years. Trudeau was insistent, but India was cold. There was too much noise on Khalistan and a Canadian PM unwilling to distance or disown any of these statements made political conversation at the highest level difficult, if not a non-starter.

<snip>

Those familiar with the details of that conversation told ThePrint that Trudeau sought to reason his position on the grounds of upholding freedom of speech in Canada. But Modi was quite direct, making it clear to his Canadian counterpart that India saw pro-Khalistan groups as a security threat.

Modi told Trudeau that he and his government will simply have to change course and be sensitive to Indian security concerns for the relationship to move forward.

This meeting set the wheels of diplomacy moving at a more frantic pace. Canada was upset but it was also left with no doubt that the Modi government will just not do business with Trudeau if he did not alter his ‘freedom of speech’ line.

<snip>
India tried to keep its caution by sticking to the rulebook on protocol, ensuring minimum exposure to high-level politicians until the end. Also, that Trudeau had to honour Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh’s gesture to have a meeting with him despite his concerns. Singh had spoken out against Trudeau and his support base of Khalistan sympathisers.

Meanwhile, Indian officials are keeping a close watch on what team Trudeau does or says during its stay in India. One thing is sure, while India expects Trudeau to course-correct on Khalistan, the government has positioned itself in a way that it’s not embarrassed or caught off-guard just in case Trudeau or any member of his delegation decides to roll back the Canadian assurance.

Last part goes to show the thinking and planning that is the hallmark of this GOI. Retain the option to press down hard till the end and make this visit a non-event. As suspected, what Trudeau says in Punjab will be the key to any outcome in Delhi. Nicely sequenced.

[VKumar]

I wonder what his father Pierre Trudeau would have said.

Saw him briefly on CNBC at IIMA Townhall. He came across as an international PAPPU. Even the lady anchor was embarrassed by his feminist talk.

[pankajs]

http://indianexpress.com/article/opinio ... i-5070398/
Canadian bathos: Justin Trudeau’s vote-banks

On the face of it, the Canadian PM’s visit is indeed a valuable opportunity to clear the air on Trudeau’s attitude towards Sikh separatism. But it is not apparent at the writing of this column whether he is ready to affirm a strong commitment to the unity and territorial integrity of India and dissociate himself from the Khalistanis. Trudeau’s team has been sending conflicting signals even after he landed in India on Saturday.

Delhi is disappointed that despite its repeated efforts, including at the highest political levels, to flag the question of Sikh separatism in Canada, Ottawa has seemed reluctant to address India’s concerns. Delhi, however, has rightly decided it must stay engaged with Trudeau, who leads one of the world’s top economies and is a member of the Group of Seven advanced nations. But Delhi has good reasons to keep its fingers crossed.

<snip>

Two decades later, the Indian media is a much larger and far more challenging entity that can amplify even the smallest of Trudeau’s missteps into a huge political controversy. Whether Trudeau’s visit will help or harm bilateral relations is likely to be decided in Amritsar. Trudeau is scheduled to visit the Harmandir Sahib on Wednesday.

To Dilli via Amritsar

[disha]

Here is a categorical statement which Kanucks cannot ignore:

Trudeau has to choose between not reigniting Sikh separatism in India and keeping some of his voters happy. He can’t have both. If India was to start supporting Quebec separatists, it can’t imagine that Canada would have good relations with India. It works both ways.

This came in WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... c81e658c30 (journo: Shivam Vij)

Kanucks are running around like headless chickens. Trudeau will be made to reaffirm India's territorial integrity from Harminder Sahib.

[chetak]

Interesting that the Canadian PM was forced convinced to meet with Punjab CM first before any official agenda is discussed. Threat of a washout trip was too much to take back to Ka-nada.

He will have to make his stand clear coming out of that meeting or so I hope. BTW, I am all for protocols .. no more .. no less. We can't be a rouge host. Better not to invite folks then. Best to make it an agenda less, warmth-less meet like the current trip but keep it polite.

He was insistent on coming to India, even though the GoI was very very cool to the visit. With a bilateral trade of just $8billion, give or take, canada means less than schitt to the Modi govt's scheme of things.

One thinks that his khalistani pals purposely precipitated the visit, pursuing it diligently over a period of more than two years, thinking that this canadian liberandu pappu would make some sort of support to khalistan speech while in India under the guise of "democratic" support to "free speech" and "freedom of expression".

On landing and being coldly received by a virtually unknown MoS for agriculture who was togged out in jeans and a wind breaker jacket, to visiting the taj where Yogi Adityanath did not even turn up to receive him, pappu panicked at the thought of going back and facing the canadian public after such a disastrously failed visit to a rising power like India. His carefully cultivated and crafted "liberal" image as a media darling and a successful international politician would have started to look moth eaten and shabby, with the stench of failure rising from the ashes of his blundering Indian sojourn.

Modi will eat this guy for breakfast, portraying him internationally as a supporter of separatists and terrorists.

He should still be kicked in the testimonials and sent back empty handed along with his khalistani pals. canada, has in the past, also harbored the anti India separatists of the LTTE too.

Anyone who undermines India has to face the consequences, doesn't matter from where the idiot pappu is from

[Kashi]

Seems like there is a lot of heartburn over the relative indifference that Trudeau's visit has been greeted with. Looks like this was not expected by the lot of them.

This leads one to ask, were they expecting a very different reception based on some "assurances"?

[chetak]

Twitter

Harpreet@CestMoiz
Feb 17

88
.. of theirs.
Fair enough, but it does show the mindset nurtured over decades, just coming to the foreground - Selective Amnesia, I'd say

[chetak]

Seems like there is a lot of heartburn over the relative indifference that Trudeau's visit has been greeted with. Looks like this was not expected by the lot of them.

This leads one to ask, were they expecting a very different reception based on some "assurances"?

I think that the canadu khalistanis expected their liberandu pappu to carry the day and also the torch for their cause, by bearding the khalistani lion err pussycat in the Indian den merely because of pappu's white skin and his alleged liberandu antecedents.

The canadu govt will take a really long time to recover from this bloody diplomatic debacle, thanks to their inept pappu and his malicious advisers.

[Prem]

This is beginning of India which can say NO . Enough is enough that freedom expression is ok but condoning , ignoring terrorist threat to Indian national security will have repercussions. IMHO, Khalistani elements among diaspora are under wrong impression that they can leverage Canadian or Brit diplomatic card against India, this snub should be eye opening for them that Pakiness won't pay but normal humanesque dialogue will go long way.

[chetak]

This is beginning of India which can say NO . Enough is enough that freedom expression is ok but condoning , ignoring terrorist threat to Indian national security will have repercussions. IMHO, Khalistani elements among diaspora are under wrong impression that they can leverage Canadian or Brit diplomatic card against India, this snub should be eye opening for them that Pakiness won't pay but normal humanesque dialogue will go long way.

Theresa may was already singed during her last visit to India.

The canadu pappu's diplomatic plight would have certainly have drawn serious attention in many many capitals and also put them on notice that the old days and ways are over.

Especially in "great" britan and much of pontificating europe.

A little fear is always good.

[Prem]

This is beginning of India which can say NO . Enough is enough that freedom expression is ok but condoning , ignoring terrorist threat to Indian national security will have repercussions. IMHO, Khalistani elements among diaspora are under wrong impression that they can leverage Canadian or Brit diplomatic card against India, this snub should be eye opening for them that Pakiness won't pay but normal humanesque dialogue will go long way.

Theresa may was already singed during her last visit to India. The canadu pappu's diplomatic plight would have certainly have drawn serious attention in many many capitals and also put them on notice that the old days and ways are over.Especially in "great" britan and much of pontificating europe.A little fear is always good.

3-4 more years and it will be the end of all squeaking sparrows. Dollar and Danda speak louder than gentle argument .

[anupmisra]

This family's gone a wee bit over the top. How many sets of desi wear did the Trudeaus carry with them?

[pankajs]

A bit too jarring even for my comfort ... guess he is trying to reach all Indo-Canadian voters via his Indian trip. His trip looks designed like a campaign touching all bases i.e. Mandir, Masjid, Gurudwara, Bollywood.

By the way Siddhu too went over the top when he is reported to have stated "20 mins can take the relation forward by 20 years" or such $hit. What's up Indians? Theek hai say something nice as a welcome gesture for guests but such hyperbolic language? What did we get in return on Khalisthan? And this was before meeting. Indians have no discipline. Should have kept comments till after meeting depending on the outcome.

[pankajs]

I don't know if its going to happen but the best would be a strong statement on Indian unity and integrity in the joint statement that usually follows head of government level meet.

[Bart S]

A bit too jarring even for my comfort ... guess he is trying to reach all Indo-Canadian voters via his Indian trip. His trip looks designed like a campaign touching all bases i.e. Mandir, Masjid, Gurudwara, Bollywood.

By the way Siddhu too went over the top when he is reported to have stated "20 mins can take the relation forward by 20 years" or such $hit. What's up Indians? Theek hai say something nice as a welcome gesture for guests but such hyperbolic language? What did we get in return on Khalisthan? And this was before meeting. Indians have no discipline. Should have kept comments till after meeting depending on the outcome.

Rather like our own Pappu who visits temples, masjids and dalit homes but at the end of the day is all fluff and no substance.

If you are referring to Navjot Sidhu the ex cricketer, I don't know what he said, but nobody takes him seriously in any sphere (outside of comedy, Kapil Sharma etc). He is a known motormouth and certifiable idiot (at least as far as the value of his statements goes).

[pankajs]

^
Yes it was that ex-cricketer motormouth. Ordinarily it wouldn't matter except that he was officially designated to recieve the Canadian PM. This is where discipline is required i.e. when folks are designated by the state on official duty.

There were Indian reports out before but I wanted to wait for the Canadian version before commenting just to gauge how the message has been received on the other side.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau ... -1.4544790
Trudeau talks 'united India' with outspoken foe of Sikh nationalists

A few hours later in New Delhi, Trudeau was pressed again on the issue and acknowledged that the topic had been discussed in the meeting "off the top."

"We recognize that there have been misunderstandings and strong words in the past, and I was pleased to be able to make very, very clear that Canada supports one united India and that we are unanimous as a government, as ministers on this issue," he said.

"We look forward to continuing to work together — understanding, of course, that Canada values freedom of expression, defending human rights, and a broad range of perspectives.

"We will always stand against extremism, either at home or abroad, but we understand that diversity of views is one of the great strengths of Canada."

Trudeau also acknowledged that he told Singh that he would look into certain more detailed allegations, although neither man said what they were, or whom they concerned.

"We received information from him, as we receive from a broad number of sources and partners around the world on things they would like us to follow up on, and they will be followed up on," Trudeau said.

Whatever the two talked about, Singh did seem satisfied with what he heard.

Quite clear but with a bit of FoE jargon thrown in for his domestic audience. Good start .. now we should make every effort to buttress our point at every meet at every level till the required change is implemented by the other side.

Hope this visit sets the template for all such visit in the future for all such countries that harbor anti-Indian elements. This visit got just enough negative publicity for it to be heard around the world capitals.

Added later: In any case the local missions would be reporting back to their respective home countries.

[pankajs]

BTW, I just remembering hearing/reading somewhere yesterday that this chappies was angling for an invite on 26th January!!!!

Bloody unbelievable! How these Goras still carry around a sense of entitlement when they are not even willing to meet Indian concerns halfway. GOI has done a good job of showing this *rockstar* his place in a polite but firm way.

[Pulikeshi]

^
"We will always stand against extremism, either at home or abroad, but we understand that diversity of views is one of the great strengths of Canada."

Someone has to inform these silly Canuck that India and her civilization is the great grandmother of diversity and freedom!
Tolerating people who blow up people and airplanes is not diversity of views - that puts you in league of those who tolerate hafiz sayeed!
Your leaders ought to be punished with more than a snub!

If there was any sense in the Canuck foriegn office, they’d come up with a equivalent vapid phrase similar to the one used with the US -
On largest democracy and oldest democracy and what have you... even if the oldest democracy is also probably India... but I digress...

In the case of the Canuck - India with largest and oldest diversity and Canada with well diversity of views or some such idiocy!

[pankajs]

As if more proof was needed of the Canada's mischief
https://twitter.com/ANI/status/966504979325480961 [ANI Tweet]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 023039.cms
Trudeau cancels dinner invite to convicted Khalistani terrorist

NEW DELHI: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau cancelled a dinner invitation to convicted Khalistani terrorist, Jaspal Atwal, after a photograph emerged in which the latter is seen posing with the PM’s wife during a February-20 event in Mumbai, reported ANI.

Atwal, a member of the now-banned International Sikh Youth Federation, was convicted for 20 years in prison for trying to kill the then Punjab cabinet minister Malkiat Singh Sidhu in Vancouver Island in 1986. Atwal later confessed that he was the shooter.

Atwal was also seen in a photograph with Canadian minister of infrastruture and communities Amarjeet Soni during the event in Mumbai. {One of the prime proponent of the FoE line .. He said something quite bewildering just before the current visit}

Following the controversy, the invitation to Atwal was cancelled.

"We have rescinded Jaspal Atwal’s invitation (for dinner reception with Canadian PM #JustinTrudeau in Delhi). We do not comment on matters relating to the PM's security," the Canadian High Commission said.

BTW, some are questioning the GOI for it would have granted him visa or OCI card for the Indian visit.

[pankajs]

Now with this story, suddenly Trudeau's visit is now the top item on the Google News India landing page.

http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnist ... n-in-india
MALCOLM: Trudeau breaking bread with would-be assassin in India?

https://twitter.com/CandiceMalcolm
This Canadian lady, Candice Malcolm, has been at the forefront of dissing Trudeau Indian visit especially wrt Khalisthan. She obviously is a Canadian political animal probably opposed to Trudeau's liberal policies in Canada. She is on twitter and folks, if they so want, can show her some love.

[Zynda]

Is this convicted terrorist a wanted person in India? Why is that individual in Mumbai? How is his India visa/PIO card still active? Looks like that person shot a visiting Indian Sikh MP in Canada but never served time in Canada. So that makes him that person attacking an Indian diplomat and thus a person who would be not eligible to visit India?

[pankajs]

One of the first reports on this latest .. has further details on the man and his track record.

http://vancouversun.com/news/national/m ... r-in-india
Surrey man convicted in 1986 B.C. terrorist shooting poses with Trudeau's wife, cabinet minister in India

Now this visit is turning from lukewarm to bad. From the Indian POV this represents an opportunity to press harder for some concrete steps back in kya-nada.

[pankajs]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... FjtaO.html
Convicted Khalistani terrorist on Canadian PM Justin Trudeau’s dinner guest list, invite withdrawn after media reports

Atwal was also accused of a murderous attack on Ujjal Dosanjh, an Indo-Canadian politician in British Columbia and a vocal critic of the Khalistan movement, in February 1985.

Dosanjh, who was brutally attacked in a parking lot, said he was “flabbergasted” to learn Atwal had been invited to an official dinner.

“I’m left speechless. This speaks volumes about the kind of inroads Khalistanis have made into the Liberal Party of Canada and the echelons of power,” he said.

Atwal was not convicted in the attack on Dosanjh because of a technicality related to his identification. The attack on the Punjab minister occurred almost a year later.

Dosanjh, who went on to become the premier (chief minister) of the province and a federal cabinet minister, said this pointed to a “colossal failure” on part of those conducting security checks for the Trudeau visit.

“This is what I have been saying. This is not about freedom of speech, it is about Canadian politicians openly hobnobbing, associating with unquestionable elements that are Khalistanis,” he said.

BTW, I was listening to Dosanjh on youtube yesterday and he was saying that what most Canadians don't understand is that the Khalistanis and their sympathizers speak one way in English and quite the opposite in punjabi in in their local assemblies.

[Kashi]

The biggest question is what is he doing in India?

Do we have no mechanisms to put such people in prison?

What does it say about our efforts to seek extradition of wanted criminals when a self-confessed terrorist is able to freely pop in and out of the country (presumably) on an OCI card?

[pankajs]

This is another scoop to nail down Trudeau's lies. Jaspal Atwal, a convicted terrorist with *The Right Honorable* Justin Trudeau from way back. Not a mistake it seems!

This is truly turning out to be a disaster for Canada. Folks spread this in whatever form you can. Also show some love for this lady without buying into her other agenda. She has done us a favor on this issue at least.

Candice Malcolm Verified account @CandiceMalcolm 12m12 minutes ago

Found one more photo of Justin Trudeau with Jaspal Atwal. Judging by Trudeau's long hair, they've known each other for a while.

[pankajs]

Candice Malcolm Verified account @CandiceMalcolm 12m12 minutes ago

This photo was taken at a Liberal Party of Canada roundtable event with Metro Vancouver South Asian media, in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada on May 28, 2015. Thanks to a reader for the tip. http://www.asianjournal.ca/liberal-part ... vancouver/ …

[g.sarkar]

Kashiji,
Check https://twitter.com/CandiceMalcolm.
"1. #BREAKINGNEWS: Trudeau’s India entourage includes a man convicted of a 1986 attempt to assasinate a visiting Indian politician in Canada. Story coming soon from the Sun. #india
2. I'm hearing that members of Trudeau's Canadian delegation in India who had previously been denied entry due to radical ties were given special entry into India, at the Trudeau government's behest. Working to confirm."
Clearly, Gora Pappu insisted that visa be given to his team visiting India and the list included the assassin. I think this is the end of Gora Pappu's India trip, nothing good will come out of it.
Gautam

[Zynda]

The above still raises some uncomfortable questions. Why isn't there a mechanism in MEA to identify individuals such as Jaspal Atwal and deny him entry (or at least question Canadian PMO/Govt why such an individual is part of team visiting India) even if he is part of diplomatic entourage?

[chetak]

Kashiji,
Check https://twitter.com/CandiceMalcolm.
"1. #BREAKINGNEWS: Trudeau’s India entourage includes a man convicted of a 1986 attempt to assasinate a visiting Indian politician in Canada. Story coming soon from the Sun. #india
2. I'm hearing that members of Trudeau's Canadian delegation in India who had previously been denied entry due to radical ties were given special entry into India, at the Trudeau government's behest. Working to confirm."
Clearly, Gora Pappu insisted that visa be given to his team visiting India and the list included the assassin. I think this is the end of Gora Pappu's India trip, nothing good will come out of it.
Gautam

If the situation were reversed, the canadians would not have obliged us by giving a visa to a radical supporting separatism in canada

[g.sarkar]

Chetakji,
That is because they are Gora and we are not. They are first world and we are third. We follow the rules, they make the rules.
Gautam

[Kashi]

I agree and this is what makes it puzzling to say the least. On one hand GoI goes out of its way to ensure that Canada gets the message with the relative indifference that this visit is treated with. On the other hand we refuse to put our foot down and allow a self-confessed terrorist to come into the country.

I think anyone will be hard-pressed to find a chankian explanation for this.

[pankajs]

I can spin a chanikyan but I don't think this was that at all. Just slipped though.

[Karthik S]

+1 good it happened, MEA will be careful next time, one can hope so.

[g.sarkar]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/you-won-t ... s-1.915985
You won't want to read this
The ugly story of the Air India bombing inches towards publication
.....
The message went out: this was her inquiry. And she seized the moment with a stinging indictment of Canada's political class for pandering to extremists in the Sikh community. "I'm sorry," said Madon. "I know it's about your votes. But that's dirty business. You don't want to be associated with a group that is linked to terrorism. You don't want those kind of votes!"
.....
Pandering to the extremists has been going on for a long time in Canada.
Gautam

[pankajs]

Here is a Chanikyan but not the one that I was referring to in my last post on this thread.

I think he has been deployed by the GOI to push the Canadians hard. He is *former* so his statements are *unofficial* but because he is a *former envoy to Canada* his words carry weight and can be considered to be very close to the Indian view with the benefit that they can be side-stepped as *someone's personal views* if needed.

ANI Verified account @ANI 1h1 hour ago

Welcome visit of Trudeau. Both countries share an important relationship. There is certainly a cloud on our relation due to Khalistan issue. Canada is the only country to provide platform to Khalistanis. That is a matter of concern: Vishnu Prakash, Former Indian envoy to Canada

ANI Verified account @ANI 1h1 hour ago

99% of Sikhs love Canada & India. There are microscopic percent of Khalistani elements who control Gurudwaras. Money pious Sikhs give goes to them & use it to spread radical agenda & spread hatred towards India: Vishnu Prakash, Former Indian envoy to Canada.

[Zynda]

Gautam, you may want to edit the post to correct the URL. You have included "you" as part of the link and thus when clicked is not working.

[g.sarkar]

Sorry. Corrected the URL Brother.
Gautam

[pankajs]

Note what Vishnu Prakash, Former Indian envoy to Canada, said very carefully ...

"Canada is the only country to provide platform to Khalistanis."

Bakis once held this position in the Indian eyes. Now Canada has replaced the Bakis. That in itself is quite a message if the Canadian's are listening.

ANI Verified account @ANI 3h3 hours ago

Humaari bewakoofi thi humne background check nahi kiya. Aur Canadians jo kehte hain ki hum Khalistaniyon ko support nahi karte, unhone unko kaise allow kiya?: Subramanian Swamy on Khalistani terrorist Jaspal Atwal's invitation for Canadian PM dinner.

[Zynda]

Seems like JT's trip is to pander Canadian domestic audience rather than focusing on bilateral Indo-Canadian ties. Apparently, JT is scoring big with radical Sikh journalists as sticking with Khalistan cause in India and not bowing down to pressures. I think many Canadian citizens of Indian origin would not support any such Khalistan movement...so not sure what the play is by JT.

Anyways, as far Indian citizens/Govt is concerned, this is a personal visit of a foreign dignitary and I think GoI/NM is doing the right thing by providing a lip service wrt meeting up with our PM.