Treatment of Indians Abroad

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Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 17 Jan 2013 19:11

My experiences in the US, with both ethnic Indians, and other Americans, has been almost all favourable. But there's a sluggishness and whininess in the ethnic Indian population in Canada, that comes largely from the Canadian environment,and a strong feeling( mostly correct) that Indians are not respected as much here as in the US. An unfortunate fall out of this condition is that Indians are not as friendly, appreciative, acknowledging, of other Indians, as they are in the US. Indians are generally more happy, secure and self assured in the US, and that reflects in their behaviour toward other Indians.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed that in the daily newspaper, the Toronto Star, almost all( 99%) front page articles involving India, Indians or ethnic Indians, is sour and negative? It's almost the impression the paper wants to convey of this group. For more balanced or nuanced coverage, you have to go deep inside the newspaper. It's as if they want the 'first impression', the eye-catching story, the most visible article, to be a negative, sour or derogatory one.

RajeshA
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby RajeshA » 17 Jan 2013 19:43

Varoon Shekhar ji,

Canada has a much bigger share of the British attitude towards Indians, than say US. Whereas in Britain, the attitudes changed somewhat positively towards people with Indian origins, considering them British citizens now, the contempt for India and Indians in India has remained.

Till 1931 Canada was practically an extension of Britain, while USA had already been independent for 155 years, and that too in a war of independence against Britain.

So the legacy of the attitude of Brits ruling over brown Indians is something still an intrinsic part of the British attitude and by extension Canadian attitude and the only way they can feel their superiority is if they do so in relation to India and Indians.

JMTs

Haresh
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby Haresh » 21 Jan 2013 02:35

I have lived in the UK all my life, I was born here.

My experience has been pretty good. I don't think most Brits are racist.
I have had some negative experiences, but overall good.

Overall in my career I have worked for British employers, with the exception of about 2-3 years working for Indians (it was the worst employment experience ever!!!)

I work in IT and am a freelance contractor, so we can pretty much end up anywhere. I work in the public sector in the NHS. So as a brown face I am either the "Doctor" or the "IT guy".

With regards to my Indian employment experience.
The first company was run by a complete lunatic from a very wealthy Indian family, they are stinking rich (all inherited wealth), he went to Doon, the Oxford, he a British trained barrister. He used to insist that whenever I was taling to a gora I say "yes Sir". I point blank refused, saying it was servile and an admission of inferiority.
He insisted, I refused, the dance continued. Anyway he was boorish, arrogant and offensive and basically treated his staff as servants, his venture failed and his explanation was "all Brits are racist". Basically he had no understanding of how to deal with people, he thought he could run his business as he did in India. The top jobs went to the children of people in India who he had to keep sweet.
The daughter of a judge, and the son of a very senior MEA official.

THe second job was also working with someone who had inherited wealth.
With pretty much the same attributes as above. He started importing a product from India, which I was tasked with selling. Basically it was rubbish. He was importing audio tape cassettes. I contacted recording companies and sent them samples which they tested. The reports which came back were never good.
His explanation was "racism". He just could not accept that the product was rubbish.
This same ass used to ask me why I used to speak to black people!!!
He was the most offensive 8astard I ever met.

The secret I think to gaining respect is to not be to servile and meek, outward confidence and if required verbal aggression.

Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 23 Jan 2013 00:32

^
Not far off topic, since you mention something about poor quality. Where can we find significant numbers of Indian made goods- could be things like pumps, cables, transformers, switchgear, compressors, pipes, tires, bicycles, hydraulics, pneumatics, tanks and vessels, etc as well as the more consumer oriented items you referred to.

There must be some Indian products where the quality is reasonably good. We just don't hear about them in mainstream sources.

member_22872
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby member_22872 » 23 Jan 2013 00:45

I came to US for my graduation programme. I attended two universities and the second one was Purdue. I didn't face any sort of racial profile etc in the first, but at Purdue things changed. Those were also the days when 9/11 was fresh in the minds of Americans. So one day I stepped out of my apartment on the way to school, and one white guy in a truck with American flag drove by, I think he saw me walking, so he reversed his truck, stopped beside me and yelled "mother fu(ker go back".

Then couple of years passed, days of Afg war took over US, and I was returning from my lab late night, well into may be 2am, then a group of students accosted me, and said "We bombed the $shit out of you f**** Afghanistan", so basically they didn't know I am not from Afghanistan, nor do I have features.

Later I came to know that Indiana was the birth place of KKK and lynching was normal few decades back. Even Guns n Roses' Axel apparently was from West Lafayette.

Just thought of sharing my experiences.

Varoon Shekhar
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 23 Jan 2013 01:20

It's incredible, that India/Indians are still unfamiliar to a large number of Americans. There seems to be a whole region, the mid-west, and small towns in all states, that Indians are seen as Arabs, Afghans, Iranians etc, anything except from India. Really dumb. I too in Canada experienced a few hostile glances from visiting Americans.

member_22872
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby member_22872 » 23 Jan 2013 01:53

Oh, I have one more incident to make your blood boil, this is from a friend I came to know, I wasn't involved as I didn't join the school yet:

Purdue has a sizable TSP mujahid population. So it was the occasion of Republic day celebrations. And Indian students decided to sing Vande mataram. I was told that the many TSP rabid dogs too were present at the event and they objected to the singing of vade mataram and our students sincerely obliged.

SaiK
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby SaiK » 23 Jan 2013 02:38

Could some one tell me in detail what "treatment" means?

Haresh
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby Haresh » 31 Jan 2013 22:32

Varoon Shekhar

"There must be some Indian products where the quality is reasonably good. We just don't hear about them in mainstream sources."

THere are plenty of good quality goods made in India, I always make a point of looking for them and buy whenever the need arises.

The supermarkets in the UK sell Indian made plastic storage containers, cuttelry, cookware. Good kit on sale at large supermarket chains.

My point about selling rubbish was that these people were used to selling low quality goods in India, because they had contempt for the average Indian and thought they were superior to all other people, Their only explanation was "racism" when people in the UK did not buy their tapes.
The sort of people who work in the creative media industry tend to be open minded, so I never really believed the "racism" angle.

Having said that another story I would like to narrate to you.

My wife and I are friends with an English couple, the husband is quite a senior Seimens executive. He regularly travels tto China, India, South Africa.

Anyway I asked him about the business culture in China Vs India. He said in China, the atitude was "these are my goods/services, if you want lets do a deal, no hard feelings if we can't"


Where as his experience in India was "you owe me the business because I have taken the time to talk to you, do you know who my father is, my contacts are"
And they would take it as a personal insult if you did not do business with them.














"

JE Menon
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby JE Menon » 31 Jan 2013 23:48

Dude has met some weird people... I doubt many Indian businessmen are like that...

lakshmikanth
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby lakshmikanth » 31 Jan 2013 23:49

Haresh,

Does he usually travel to Delhi? If so there might be an obvious reason.

Haresh
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby Haresh » 01 Feb 2013 00:22

JE,

I am not saying many are like that. THese were just the ones I met.
These people were born into privilage and wealth. It is not as though they had to struggle.

I am sure the majority of Indian businessmen are not that way.

lakshmikanth, I have no idea if it was Delhi.

The projects were infrastructure ones, rail, signals, electrical transmittion etc.

My experience taught me that people who have been born into privilage and are arrogant will seldom succeed outside of their little club unless they change there attitude pretty quick.

Have you heard of the Punjabi actor Pran?

I used to know someone who knew his son in London and met him a few times.
The guy has a Phd and has owned/Directed 10 companies, everyone has failed. He is really arrogant and obnoxious, thinks he is very clever because he has a Phd, but has never succeeded in business. A well educated failure. It's not the fact he is Indian that puts people off dealing with him, he just has no social skills.

lakshmikanth
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby lakshmikanth » 01 Feb 2013 00:29

Haresh,

Anything to do with the "public" (infra, rail etc) in India has been hijacked by the privileged and the arrogant. No wonder your friend met such people. They are the most boorish louts you can ever come across.

shiv
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby shiv » 08 Mar 2015 19:49

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... pital.html
A woman who was stabbed in a 'horrific' attack on her way home from work on Saturday night has been identified as Prabha Arun.

The 41-year-old was discovered by three people passing by the small alleyway near Amos Street in Westmead shortly after 9.30pm, where she was on the phone when the random attack happened.

In a cruel twist, the mother of one was speaking to her husband when she cried out: 'I think I’ve been stabbed' as he listened helplessly over the phone while his wife was brutally attacked just metres from her home,' The Daily Telegraph reports.

The IT consultant hopped off at Parramatta train station, walked along Argyle Street and then onto Park Parade before taking the footpath next to the golf course where she was attacked just metres from her Westmead home.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3To6aqp8H
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

UlanBatori
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Mar 2015 19:53

I am surprised that the PeeAref radar hadn't caught this tamasha yet:

[url=http://www.india.diplo.de/contentblob/4475784/Daten/5221636/Letter.pdf
]Letter from Herr Fuhrer-Ambassador von das 4th 5th Reich von das DeutschLand, formerly chief letter-writer to Pakistan re: Mice Schidt in das Rice Schiff
[/url]

That is quoted below as well.

> From: vivek gupta <>
> Date: March 9, 2015 at 8:53:23 AM EDT
> To: beck-sickinger@uni-leipzig.de
> Subject: A letter about your Extremely Disturbing views and sadistic decision.
>
> Prof. Dr. Annette Beck-Sickinger
> Institute of Biochemistry
> Brüderstraße
> 34 04103 Leipzig, Germany
>
> On Behalf of Concerned Citizens of India and Well wishers of India around the world.
>
> It has been extreme displeasure, disrespect to read your hateful sentiments expressed when you have denied admission to an Indian Male student in your University for the reason you justified was "Rape problem in India" and no longer accepting Indian Male students, because you have a lot of female students in your department.
>
> You said that many female Professors in Germany decided/deciding not to offer admissions or internships to the Indian male students because of the multiple rape issues happening in India, as if all Indian Men are rapist ?. This sick mentality of yours is nothing but a disrespect to the entire country and not just the Indian Men but Indian women as well, daughters mothers wives of India.
>
> Off course, yours is not the only University and the department, or the best department in the world in the field of study of Biochemistry, and this particular incident have brought many students out of ignorance of your views and your university and hence forth you will continuously see the decline in Indian students (both male and female in your country in your university. That to me is a good thing that not only you will have a guilt of your misbehavior and extremely unprofessional conduct but many students will now revoke their admission coming to your university or other German universities. Indian Men are all over the world, as deans and professors, of Harvard to Yale to Oxford to Wharton. to Ivy leagues to the CEO's of Microsoft, Key personnel's in Google Apple and other MNC's. Indian Men around the globe are one of the most hardworking people present, whether its Medicine, Engineering, Aeronautics, Biology, Art, Sports or other things for that matter.
>
> I have attached
> 1) The original response, your emails to the student, highlighting your extreme bias towards indian men.
> 2) The letter in response to you from German Ambassador Michael Steiner, in New Delhi India, who expressed strong dislike and hangs his head in shame for your disrespect and ignorance of India, the beautiful and culturally rich country, where women are not just working mothers, daughters and wives, but are also revered as goddess, and worshiped in the form of Laxmi, Saraswati and Kali.
> 3) I have BCC'd whole bunch of people and officials from all spheres of the professional environment, professors to Govt officers, from India and from rest of the world, and they can educate themselves of your university and particular of your derogatory emails to the Indian Male student and can individually write to you.
> 4) I will take help of Other German Embassies around the World to write to you about horrendous views of Indian Men in this situation.
>
> I have also attached some research of mine of what is the rape problem in Germany and in UK and other developed countries is, for your knowledge its important to keep yourself aware of these statistics of your own country. I wonder if people stick on this very fact that how many Jews were raped, Hilter's Nazy soldiers brutally raped and killed million in Germany, it was a horrendous genocide, If people take this fact from Germany in the present world, I am sure you will NOT have any international student, worker for that matter coming to your country. Anyways you got the idea, Please find the research below.
> http://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf ... /Rape-rate
> http://www.nationmaster.com/country-inf ... many/Crime
> http://www.india.diplo.de/contentblob/4 ... Letter.pdf
>
> Thank You for you time, and hopefully you understand that their is a great scope of improvement and understanding in your part towards the rich and profound culture of India. I reiterate "Rape issue in India" is NOT the culture, and that all Indian Men are NOT rapists, its an unfortunate Incident that happened which many of us are committed to eradicate from the social fabric.
>
> YOU OFFENDED INDIA, INDIAN MEN AND WOMEN, AND INDIA DESERVE AN APOLOGY FROM YOU.
>
> Thanks
> Vivek Gupta
> Concerned Indian MAN

********************************
From: Selva Nayagam <>
Subject: Re: German professor cites rape culture in India to refuse student internship
Date: March 9, 2015 at 3:13:45 PM GMT+5:30
To: "Annette G. Beck-Sickinger" <beck-sickinger@uni-leipzig.de>

Dear Professor,

Many thanks for your prompt response and assuring me that the mail was a misunderstanding.

Wishing you the best, :roll:

Selva Nayagam.



> On Mar 9, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Annette G. Beck-Sickinger <beck-sickinger@uni-leipzig.de> wrote:
>
> Dear Sir,
> Unfortunately this mail was a misunderstanding (huh?) . Of course I have nothing against male Indians and I have accepted several Indian students in the past.
> However my lab is full and I currently cannot take any student.
> This led to an unpleasant discussion with one of the Indian student.
>
> I apologize if this caused any misunderstanding, but the e-Mail was taken out of the context.

(und my nose ist growing gros longer every funf second)
>
> With best regards
> Annette Beck-Sickinger
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> Prof. Dr. Annette G. Beck-Sickinger
> Institute of Biochemistry
> Leipzig University
> Brüderstr. 34
> 04103 Leipzig
> Germany
>
> Tel. +49 341 9736900
> FAX +49 341 9736909
> Mail: beck-sickinger@uni-leipzig.de
> http://www.biochemie.uni-leipzig.de/agbs
> 11th NPY-PYY-PP Meeting will be in Leipzig, Germany from August 22 to 26, 2015
> http://www.npy-pyy-pp.org/
>
>
> Von: Selva Nayagam
> Gesendet: Montag, 9. März 2015 10:00
> An: beck-sickinger@uni-leipzig.de
> Betreff: German professor cites rape culture in India to refuse student internship
>
> Respected Prof. Dr. Annette Beck-Sickinger,
>
>
> I owe your details to http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~trr67/joomla ... 11&lang=en and to http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/germ ... 22825.html (German professor cites rape culture in India to refuse student internship). I have copied and pasted the article below for your reference.
>
> I am an Indian national myself and I am here to tell you that I am very saddened by your decision. Rape is a crime / law and order issue which every country - including Germany - is fighting, which you are aware of. While you have exercised your right in denying a candidate admission, I would like to bring to your notice that the reason you have cited may not really go well with the common public in general. I have worked with German companies / nationals in the past and I have never ever come across anyone who used a logic like you have used. In my opinion, you have opened up yourself vulnerable for criticism and unwanted comments.
>
> My apologies if I have gate-crashed here with my opinion. I wrote to you since I thought it concerns every Indian (as you have generalized that every Indian male is a rapist).
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Selva Nayagam.
>
>
> German professor cites rape culture in India to refuse student internship
> In what appears to be a direct international fallout of the numerous rapes being reported from India, a student who had applied to a German university for admission has reportedly been turned down by a professor of the Leipzig University citing the rape culture in India.
> <image001.jpg>The first email that the student was sent. Twitter
> If the screenshots of two emails, posted originally on Quora and later on Twitter, are to be believed, a professor from the Leipzig University - identified in one screenshot as Annette Beck Sickinger of the Institute of Biochemistry, Leipzig University - turned down the student saying, "unfortunately I don't accept any Indian male students for internships. We hear a lot about the rape problem in India which I cannot support. I have many female students in my group, so I think this attitude is something I cannot support, [SIC]"
> <image002.jpg>The second email that the professor from the Leipzig University sent the student. Twitter
> When the applicant reportedly mailed the professor saying that this was generalisation, the professor reportedly wrote back saying, "I fully agree that this is a generalisation and may not apply to individuals. However, it is also unbelievable that the Indian society is not able to solve this problem for many years now. Reports reach Germany on a weekly base, and especially these "multi-rape crimes" are threatening, but for me also demonstrate the attitude of a society towards women. Also female tourists are kidnapped by groups of males and then abused.
> "Many female professors in Germany decided to no longer accept male Indian students for these reasons, and currently other European female association are joining. Of course we cannot change or influence the Indian society, but only take our consequences here in Europe."
> <image003.jpg>The third screenshot offered for the verification of the email address, reveals the name of the professor as well. Quora
>
> The three screenshots of the email have gone viral on twitter with many people asking if it is true or not and others demanding that MEA take up the issue with the German ambassador
> Prof. Dr. Annette Beck-Sickinger
> <image004.jpg>
>
> Principal Investigator A4
> Prof. Dr. Annette Beck-Sickinger,
> Professor of Biochemistry and Bioorganic Chemistry
>
> Universität Leipzig
> Faculty of Biosciences, Pharmacy and Psychology
> Institute of Biochemistry
> Brüderstraße 34
> 04103 Leipzig
>
> Phone: +49 (0)341 97-36900
> Fax: +49 (0)341 97-36909
> E-Mail: beck-sickinger@uni-leipzig.de
>

gakakkad
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby gakakkad » 09 Mar 2015 19:59

no UB..BRF is ahead of the curve as usual...check political threads,nukkad and dilli rape case thread...

UlanBatori
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby UlanBatori » 09 Mar 2015 21:59

Aaargh! These are all places I avoid, even more than I avoid Germany.

svinayak
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby svinayak » 10 Mar 2015 00:19

Varoon Shekhar wrote:
Incidentally, has anyone noticed that in the daily newspaper, the Toronto Star, almost all( 99%) front page articles involving India, Indians or ethnic Indians, is sour and negative? It's almost the impression the paper wants to convey of this group. For more balanced or nuanced coverage, you have to go deep inside the newspaper. It's as if they want the 'first impression', the eye-catching story, the most visible article, to be a negative, sour or derogatory one.

It is the Paki factor in the editorial board in media in Canada.

chilarai
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Re: Treatment of Indians Abroad

Postby chilarai » 10 Mar 2015 01:00

svinayak wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:
Incidentally, has anyone noticed that in the daily newspaper, the Toronto Star, almost all( 99%) front page articles involving India, Indians or ethnic Indians, is sour and negative? It's almost the impression the paper wants to convey of this group. For more balanced or nuanced coverage, you have to go deep inside the newspaper. It's as if they want the 'first impression', the eye-catching story, the most visible article, to be a negative, sour or derogatory one.

It is the Paki factor in the editorial board in media in Canada.



Maybe it 's worthwhile to note in from now onwards, but I have noticed in some newspapers , when crimes are reported if its Indian origin perpetrator they show big mugshots, while for other ethinicities they either do not have pics or much smaller if at all. Wonder if anyone else had similar observation.


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