West Asia News and Discussions

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vishvak
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 15 Sep 2011 00:00

Hitesh wrote:Ok go ahead and diss the Turkey armed forces for all you want and live in a fanboy derision/mockery or whatever the hell you are in. But I am giving the Turkish armed forces the necessary respect and inclination just like any other competent professional would do.


Mahatma Gandhi said:
There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it...always.

Israel is much better placed than Indians during last 100 years.

On the other hand, if Arabs around Israel do not recognize human rights of Israel then Israel should finish off enemies of Jews immediately.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Sanku » 15 Sep 2011 00:09

Hitesh wrote:Before they had two reliable allies and now they have alienated one ally and pissed off a powerful leader of another ally. "


Reliable allies? :rotfl: Countries using Israel to further their agenda.

It was a marriage of convenience, and as Turkey finds it is no longer necessary to appear secular to be accepted by the rapidly decaying Europe and BHO running US to ground with his fantastic foreign policy based on capitulation and withdrawal dressed up in shiny package -- Israel is no longer necessary for them.

Israel has always chosen the path "develop strength; people will find a reason to ally with you" -- they will find a way, and if they do not, well it was fun while it lasted -- who gave a bunch of sickly money making jews fresh out of Europe with dollops to generous love by the Europeans to survive the massed forces of TFTA Arabs for so long?

I think the Jewish/Isralie policy is dicacted by a acute realization of a deep loathing and hate for them ingrained in the world at large, quite clearly demonstrated by statements like

Hitesh wrote:It reminds me of a saying, "Don't get involved in an argument with a Jewish person for he will make you want to either kill yourself or him."


They know they are friendless, persecuted lot, and they value real survival over "English friendship" from far shores.

====================

Of course as an Indian, I will follow the Indian way of tolerance and respect for all those who deserve it, and will offer same support to Jews as my Indian forefathers did.

Yet Indian support has been too far, too limited since Indians are/were tied up in their own battles and no more than a positive blip on their otherwise accursed lives.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Hitesh » 15 Sep 2011 00:16

I have a couple friends who are Jewish so don't paint me as an anti-Semitic. In fact, it is one of those friends who have taught me that saying after i witnessed an emotional highly charged conversation between him and another jewish person. I commented on it and he laughed it away saying that it is normal and admits that he actually prefer to deal with non-jewish friends more than jewish because he doesn't have to engage in the high drama it entails.

Anyway, I am digressing from the point that Israel is making strategic mistakes that would see it isolated. Nobody wants that.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 15 Sep 2011 00:21

Isnt it good that Israel faces obliteration? After all, Israel deserves each and every attack it faces. Palestinians don't. Israeli kids deserve rocket attacks because in the future they are going to become soldiers by their nations laws. But Palestinian kids do not deserve that becuase in the future they are going to be Hamas members smugly stating that political recognition is just stage, to facilitate eventual jihadi obliteration of Israel. Israeli civilians too do deserve to be killed because they all were once or going to be soldiers at some stage, and because civilians are always responsible for the crimes committed by their religious leaders, or governments, or secret agencies.

However Palestinian civilians do not deserve to be killed, because they are not responsible for the crimes committed by their religious leaders, or authorities or their secret agencies.
Israel's claims on the land are false, because unless one comes from Islam - one cannot claim any rights to any land on which they lived centuries ago, or never lived at all as a culture.

Turkey again is a grand holiest-of-the-holy example of un-Islamism, even if Kemalism has been on the steady backfoot and retreat right from the death of the guru himself. Even if mullahcracy has been steadily allowed back to regroup and consolidate quietly in the background, and at least for 10 years before Erdogans formal electoral victories the assertion of islamism and its symbols were steadily pushing to the front.

Kemalism was a classic religious version of Bonapartism of Thalheimer. Thalheimer's classic remark was that sometimes "capitalism" needed to be saved from itself. Islam also sometimes needs to be saved from itself - and the Ottoman mullahcracy's deep degradation and failure could not be allowed to stick to Islam, so that with due time it could reinvent itsefl into its genocidic, culture-cide.

No, we should forget all that history. We must wallow in formalism - like NATO membership, supposed shouts about "secular" Islamism, a special Turkish "Islam" that is not Islam at all, like a leopard without its spots is not a leopard, or an albino royal Bengal does not know how to hunt or tear live flesh.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Sanku » 15 Sep 2011 00:23

Hitesh wrote:I have a couple friends who are Jewish so don't paint me as an anti-Semitic.


I have Pakistani friends too. So?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby hnair » 15 Sep 2011 00:29

Hitesh wrote:Ok go ahead and diss the Turkey armed forces for all you want and live in a fanboy derision/mockery or whatever the hell you are in.


saar, India bought pricey stuff from Hasidim not Turkey. Till we buy some such shiny stuff from Turkey (and not your ally, pakis), it is just a patty option at a Deli for an Indian.

But I am giving the Turkish armed forces the necessary respect and inclination just like any other competent professional would do.


ok saar, you do that.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 15 Sep 2011 00:29

It is so heartening to see, that we are getting adept at asymmetric logic - the same logic applied to two sides of a conflict differently, even if we are showing great reluctance to learn asymmetric warfare. The justifications used against Israel are not applicable on Palestinians - logically.

Moreover, on an India centric forum, we do not consider what may ultimately be of advantage or disadvantage for India - even if we are discussing Israel. Fall of Israel, means eventual release of forces now engaged in their Jihadi orgasmic frenzy against the "monkey"[as per purely revealed source literature] Jews, sealing off of the Eastern Med sea-board for western intervention, and a solid Islamic stretch - all whose testosterone could then be unleashed towards the east - especially India.

This wonderful self-flagellation of trying to be the conscience keeper of the world - has landed India into trouble before, and will again.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Hitesh » 15 Sep 2011 01:48

hnair wrote:
Hitesh wrote:Ok go ahead and diss the Turkey armed forces for all you want and live in a fanboy derision/mockery or whatever the hell you are in.


saar, India bought pricey stuff from Hasidim not Turkey. Till we buy some such shiny stuff from Turkey (and not your ally, pakis), it is just a patty option at a Deli for an Indian.



Judging from your post, I can clearly say that with conviction that you have no or little aptitude in reading comprehension. And by labeling me with the associated word, paki, because I just happened to disagree with your opinion, shows a juvenile nature of your side. Go ahead and label anyone as a "paki" who disagree with your opinion.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Hitesh » 15 Sep 2011 01:49

Sanku wrote:
Hitesh wrote:I have a couple friends who are Jewish so don't paint me as an anti-Semitic.


I have Pakistani friends too. So?


And your logic is astounding.... :roll:

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 15 Sep 2011 01:53

brihaspati wrote:It is so heartening to see, that we are getting adept at asymmetric logic - the same logic applied to two sides of a conflict differently, even if we are showing great reluctance to learn asymmetric warfare. The justifications used against Israel are not applicable on Palestinians - logically.

Moreover, on an India centric forum, we do not consider what may ultimately be of advantage or disadvantage for India - even if we are discussing Israel. Fall of Israel, means eventual release of forces now engaged in their Jihadi orgasmic frenzy against the "monkey"[as per purely revealed source literature] Jews, sealing off of the Eastern Med sea-board for western intervention, and a solid Islamic stretch - all whose testosterone could then be unleashed towards the east - especially India.

This wonderful self-flagellation of trying to be the conscience keeper of the world - has landed India into trouble before, and will again.


Jews should start fasting as protest - Mahatma Gandhi style and adopt some Gandhian measures to show who stands where. I am not discounting any preparedness but it is also needed for Jews on their own lands.

This can kill the facade of == and victimization song and dance of all Arabs.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby hnair » 15 Sep 2011 02:11

Hitesh wrote:Judging from your post, I can clearly say that with conviction that you have no or little aptitude in reading comprehension. And by labeling me with the associated word, paki, because I just happened to disagree with your opinion, shows a juvenile nature of your side. Go ahead and label anyone as a "paki" who disagree with your opinion.


ayyo saarey.... judging, conviction etc are strong words. So I wont do that back to you, being as it is you are nothing but a wisp of HTML in a forum to me :lol:

But still.... talking about reading comprehension etc, I did not call you a paki, did I? I said "and not your ally, pakis". Your govt says pakis are your "Major Non-Nato Ally". I just repeated that. Here is the link. I apologize if that offended you or made you feel bad :oops:

moving on, saar..... moving on :)

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 15 Sep 2011 09:53

turkey equipment serviceability might go steeply down and develop mysterious issues if it ever comes to a formal cagematch with israel. israel can ofcourse not invade turkey , but turkey will have a very hard time invading israel through syria too on narrow frontages guarded by masses of IDF tanks, helicopters and artillery.

the key imo is the IDFAF-vs-TurkAF and there, though the TurkAF has some modern eqpt like upg F-4 and F-16-block50+, these are subject to pressures from Massa and turkish economy financial pressure from NATO.

they would be stupid to openly fight israel and end up with their navy and AF destroyed , their economic targets heavily bombed and subject of membership termination in nato. nato does not need turkey anymore to guard the black sea-med sea chokepoint. there is no red banner fleet waiting to break out of that pot.

israel will suffer damages from TurkAF no doubt, but will survive as the predominant gorilla in that patch of the woods.

if turkey wants to go the jihad route however, its better they come out and seek that cagematch now. get it over with rather than simmer internally and be destroyed like pakistan is.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Sanku » 15 Sep 2011 10:09

Hitesh wrote:
Sanku wrote:
Hitesh>>I have a couple friends who are Jewish so don't paint me as an anti-Semitic.

I have Pakistani friends too. So?


And your logic is astounding.... :roll:


Indeed, the same logic in question here is astounding. I am glad I helped you understand that.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Samudragupta » 15 Sep 2011 10:19

The neo-Caliph may be trying to destroy the last vestige of Kemalism from the Anatolia....through the destruction of Turkish Armed Forces....

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Suppiah » 15 Sep 2011 10:38

Confirmation of what I said yesterday comes so fast, it is unexpected..

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=238021

but we do not think that he or his country alone should be leading the region or drawing up its future

Arab states do not need outside projects ... This has to come from the new internal systems of the Arab countries which after the revolutions ... will be democratic ones,


So says MB..

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Kanson » 15 Sep 2011 11:06

Suppiah wrote:Erdogan is leading Turkey to a no win situation either way.

If Israel gets into serious trouble with Arabs, there are enough sabre rattlers and potty mouths within Arab world who can give Erdogan a run for his money. He cannot out-barbarian the barbarians. Nor can he control them once the passions are aroused. He will be another Zia. And if all the 300million + arabs get into war with Israel, Turkey in or out hardly matters. Either they all get nuked by Israel or Israel gets wiped out of earth.

Right now Arabs are a bit lost because of their troubles and hence he appears to be a hero. As the saying in Tamil goes in a town without sugar mills, anything passes for sugar. But this is not the time to judge such things. Give them a Nasser or even a Saddam, situation is very different. So it is a matter of time before some Arab dictator/democratic leader tells him, thank very much you go back to your corner. We KNOW how to be pure ROPers, we don't need YOU to tell us..

And if Israel by some miracle achieves peace with Arabs, it will have enough friends or non-enemies it can play them around for the next 100 years. Turkey or Erdogan would not matter. It may even forgive the Iranian mullahs, but I bet you they will not forgive the Turks for betrayal as they see it. In any case, Erdogan will run out of punching bag and has to explain his own actions in Kurdistan.

And if status quo persists, Turkey will have no role to play as mediator or as so-called moderate sensible party because they have burned that bridge long ago.


I offer a different view.

This whole drama from Turkey has nothing to do with Israel as such. It is actually a fight between Sunni world and Shias. Dominance over the Arab world is the theme.

What Ahmedinejad to Shia power is Erdogan to Sunni power. To elaborate, Arab world is in ever increasing threat of Shia dominance over Sunni powers. Arab narratives are so far for the past few years dominated by Ahmedinejad theatrics. His defiance to West, his stand on N weapon, his speeches against Israel, his support of factions like hamas. Now Erdogan is pulling the rug from under Ahemdinejad's feet. This is if it is viewed from the spectrum of Arab world. If West/US involvement can be counted, it is meant to actually cut Ahmedinejad/Iran to size and attacking Israel is not the theme and Obama and Erdogan knows very well where to put a stop.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 15 Sep 2011 11:34

shyamd wrote:Remove the whole religious aspect and think of it objectively. If tomorrow, the aboriginees asked for an independent Australia ruled by the aboriginees, would you support it? Same for the american indians - who were similarly killed, forced to convert etc. Would you recognise an american indian state? How far do you want to go? Or do you want to forget the past and accept the current status quo and forget whatever happened in the past and live in peace for the future?

Not more than 43 years! :)

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Atri » 15 Sep 2011 13:48

Israel has cleared out its embassy staff from Jordan, Turkey and Egypt..

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Agnimitra » 15 Sep 2011 18:50

Israel is getting into an unprecedented situation for itself in the ME. There are three main blocs in the region - Arabic, Turkic and Iranic. In all of Israel's history, they have had decent relations with 2 of these states and bad relations with 1 (1949-1979 Iran and Turkey, 1979-2011 Egypt and Turkey). But now for the first time Israel may find itself on hostile terms with 2 or even all 3 of these. The effects of this cannot be underestimated.

Egypt is in the economic doldrums and Syria is in political turmoil, thus making the Arabic bloc the weakest of the 3. But Turkey's stepping up to take "leadership" of the Sunni Arab bloc and Iran's bolstering of the Shi'a Arab blocs is compensating for that. Moreover, the US has its own economic troubles. From all PoV's, it looks like Israel will find itself bracketed more than before, IMHO.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 15 Sep 2011 19:10

Carl ji,

IMO, Israel had good relations with at least two of the three blocs simply because in these blocs, at that time Islamism was weak, and there were internal feuds between the blocs. As each bloc is being taken over by Islamism, all are becoming more anti-Islamic. Secondly due to a long period of gestation and thinking, feuding blocs may be finding common ground.

It is not necessarily due to Israel's intransigence on Palestine, etc.

That is why keep on saying, that in order to balance this, Israel needs to create a fourth bloc - the Kurdish bloc, which would be a pro-Israeli bloc, simply because Kurdistan would always have problems with its other neighbors - Iranians, Turks, Iraqis, i.e. with all three blocs. By the level of feuds, that it would create, one can assume that these two would give Israelis more opportunities and more peace.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Agnimitra » 15 Sep 2011 19:20

RajeshA wrote:That is why keep on saying, that in order to balance this, Israel needs to create a fourth bloc - the Kurdish bloc, which would be a pro-Israeli bloc, simply because Kurdistan would always have problems with its other neighbors - Iranians, Turks, Iraqis, i.e. with all three blocs. By the level of feuds, that it would create, one can assume that these two would give Israelis more opportunities and more peace.

Kurdistan is definitely key for many reasons. Not least because it will open a gap between Turkey and Iran (more than anything to do directly with Israel). I doubt an independent Kurdistan will be explicitly pro-Israel, but it will most likely be anti-Turk. OTOH, it may be slightly pro-Iran. It will be a gain of the Iranic bloc over the Turkic bloc in the ME. This will re-create a new fracture and opposition that may give Israel breathing space.

But if Bibi and his constituency's arrogant intransigence about Palestinians continues, then that seems to override other elements of the political dynamic in the region - especially when the Kurdistani cause is far from materializing.

Now if Kurdistan were a fait accompli, and if it was turned around and used to deeply influence the identity politics within Iran, then Israeli intransigence would polarize positions and aid the overall cause. But at this point I don't get it.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 15 Sep 2011 19:31

Carl ji,

KRG try to have good relations with both Turkey and Iran, but they don't have any love for either - Turks are oppressors and Iranians are Shi'a. Kurds have just as much love for Iranians as the Iranian Baloch - none.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Kanson » 15 Sep 2011 19:39

I think, Israel and Saudi & co are working closer to block Iran Shia influence. There are lot of intel sharing going on.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Agnimitra » 15 Sep 2011 19:50

^^^ RajeshA ji, at a political level that's true. But at a people-to-people level Kurd-Persian relations range from polite to very good, esp among some sections of Kurdish population. It is this very fact that makes an independent and non-Islamist Kurdistan a viable tool to influence Iran's internal identity politics.

The Kurdistani cause needs to be developed quickly. When Israel paints itself into a corner and others begin to align, the chances of influencing Iran's identity politics is affected negatively. Israeli discomfitures have a cathartic effect on the manic Islamist ME.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Hitesh » 15 Sep 2011 20:39

Singha wrote:turkey equipment serviceability might go steeply down and develop mysterious issues if it ever comes to a formal cagematch with israel. israel can ofcourse not invade turkey , but turkey will have a very hard time invading israel through syria too on narrow frontages guarded by masses of IDF tanks, helicopters and artillery.

the key imo is the IDFAF-vs-TurkAF and there, though the TurkAF has some modern eqpt like upg F-4 and F-16-block50+, these are subject to pressures from Massa and turkish economy financial pressure from NATO.

they would be stupid to openly fight israel and end up with their navy and AF destroyed , their economic targets heavily bombed and subject of membership termination in nato. nato does not need turkey anymore to guard the black sea-med sea chokepoint. there is no red banner fleet waiting to break out of that pot.

israel will suffer damages from TurkAF no doubt, but will survive as the predominant gorilla in that patch of the woods.

if turkey wants to go the jihad route however, its better they come out and seek that cagematch now. get it over with rather than simmer internally and be destroyed like pakistan is.


Not gonna happen. Turkey is a NATO ally. So by the agreement of NATO, Us has to fully abide by its agreement. Whether you like it or not, NATO's sanctity is pretty much higher on the food chain than Israel's security interests. Europe would not allow a NATO member to go by wayside. Turkish navy is actually powerful than Israeli navy and the Turkish air force is on par with Israeli air force. Besides if Israel attack Turkey, Turkey is by all within its rights to invoke the NATO charter, which would put Israel in a worse position.

What that means is US would not allow Turkey and Israel get into a shooting war. Period. US would bring every pressure point on both countries to pull from the brink because the last thing US wants to see is a shooting match between Turkey and Israel. Otherwise US would be forced to pick a side and that is something US would not do.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 15 Sep 2011 21:40

Turkey is a NATO ally. So by the agreement of NATO, Us has to fully abide by its agreement.
not when they denounce the turkish regime as acting outside of nato's common interest and cut them loose. there are plenty of turkey skeptics- turkey has not been let into the EU even if its a full nato member for instance.

the shah of iran was given a incredible amt of arms by the americans in the 1970s and then cut loose.

Whether you like it or not, NATO's sanctity is pretty much higher on the food chain than Israel's security interests. Europe would not allow a NATO member to go by wayside

europe part of nato can only dhoti shiver and slide away if the big dog growls and tell them sit quietly. the entire european nato could barely muster up enough to deal with libya over a period of months, with no air resistance.
without Unkil, europe militaries are like a 2 legged dog - before their other two legs - logistics/refueling and C4iSR are quite weak.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 15 Sep 2011 22:01

Singha ji,

who is NATO - USA, UK, Germany and may be France and a little Italy. All others simply follow.

USA and Germany would not allow Israel to go down. I think UK too would not allow it. Sarkozy was against Turkey's inclusion in the EU, so I guess he too would be pro-Israel, rather than pro-Turkey.

NATO sanctity is for the close group, not for Turkey, and they know it too. Turkey did not assist USA when USA went into Iraq, and USA too would show them the middle finger if need be. Israel is more important.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 15 Sep 2011 22:13

Can NATO go against Human Rights of Jews, against universal (not partial) declaration of Human Rights?

If UK can have in their ranks Gurkhas, Israelis can too amongst others.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Agnimitra » 16 Sep 2011 02:14

Another way to look at Erdogan's histrionics is from the "short-term" PoV of Turkey's domestic politics. Erdogan's party depends not only on Turkish Moslem sentiment, but also is the only Turkish party to have got at least some support from the Kurdish Turks. Since Ataturk's time, Turkey's rulers have used the Kurdish menace to unite the population and distract from other problems or failures. But Erdogan can't take the risk of playing the same anti-Kurdish card and losing his electoral edge over the other parties. So Israel is the new punching bag. He will rant against Israel but won't actually do anything to it that will miff Unkil.

Because in terms of his foreign policy, so far Erdogan has shown no real ambition to challenge US power in the region, and he cannot take any concrete anti-Israel steps and still be pally with the US. Turkey's hesitation to more directly co-operate in US invasions could be driven more by fear of opening up the Kurdish box plus alienating a crucial domestic Islamist constituency.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 16 Sep 2011 12:51

All this talk of turkey attacking Israel is nothing but rhetoric. Turkey is actually just playing a game of covering its failure in Syria. And a LOT of people are angry at Erdogan ignoring Syria.
He will be forced to act as Syria descends into civil war.
Erdogan is just trying to improve his standing in the arab world after his syria failure. He'll be forced to act in Syria, so they are quietly getting ready.

Keep in mind that they are still coordinating intel on syria. Turkey won't act in syria without talking to israel and iran to understand intentions

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RamaY » 16 Sep 2011 19:35

ShyamD garu,

You may want to see this video - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14944121

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Karna_A » 16 Sep 2011 21:04

Israel needs all support from India and Indians in its need of hour, just like Israel has provided all support to India during its need.

India's finest PM, Rao was the first to recognize this and belatedly gave Ambassadorial recognition to Israel.

Palestinians already have a state of their own which is called Jordan. However, jews are persecuted all over middle east and they need a state that is defensible. There was a time the whole of Middle east was populated by Jews. Now all they want is defensible borders and there is no reason why that should not be granted. The habitable part of Israel is just 8000 square km equivalent to Hyderbad/Secunderbad Metropolitan region. If Middle East cannot even give that much land to Israel, then it deserves the same fate that befell original jews. In fact India should offer one of its uninhabited Andaman Islands to Israel just like UK has given Diego Garcia to Unkil in lieu of Nook Submarine and TNW technology.

Till there is dynastic politics in India, the leaders would not recognize what is good for India, instead only focus on what is good for the family.
AH was the first native arrow after a long time into this family's twisted stranglehold over Indian politics. Hopefully this will be the proverbial straw that breaks the Italian Camel.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Samudragupta » 16 Sep 2011 22:01

There is definitely not going to be a war btween Isreal and Turkey...there is too much at stake...its plain a simple all the entities in the West Asia wants America out of the region.....Palestinian nation bid is just a step in the direction.....Palestinian have taken the risk of the lifetime.....if they don't succeed now ..its clear there won't be any Palestine in the future....All the entities are making Palistine as the sacrificial lamb for their own geopolitical gains....interestingly Israelis may be the greatest friend of the Palestines in the face of onslaught of the powers in Palestine....

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 16 Sep 2011 22:31

It is not that Turkey wants to have a direct war with Palestine oops Israel, but it can still be that Erdogan would not mind plunging the Arab regimes into a war with Israel. That way, the whole Arab region would be substantially weakened, so much so that when Erdogan marches in with his Turkish troops, with anti-Israeli banners and paroles, they will be seen as saviors of the Arabs. This way Erdogan would have reestablished Caliphate without ever firing a single shot, or more importantly being hit by a single shot.

Erdogan and Devotoglu are serpents, and Arabs should be very wary.
Last edited by RajeshA on 17 Sep 2011 00:08, edited 1 time in total.

shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 16 Sep 2011 22:50

You know even if they get vetoed, it doesn't matter... They still become a non permanent member of UN.

Egypt is in no position to go to war nor do the egyptian mil council want a fight (it may be a last resort to prevent the military council from falling)
But even then, unlikely. But the US knows israeli position is looking weak, so they are withdrawing and reducing exposure elsewhere.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 16 Sep 2011 23:00

If Turkey acts up the Armenian genocide can always be brought up. They have never admitted to the wrong doing.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Samudragupta » 16 Sep 2011 23:17

The classic case of "cult of offensive" is being played out in ME....all the sections except the Isrealis are on geopolitical offensive....unfortunately it will be the Israelis who will have the last laugh.....

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 17 Sep 2011 00:25

RamaY wrote:ShyamD garu,

You may want to see this video - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14944121

Thanks.

I find it quite hilarious that on the one hand she is saying that recognition at UN means nothing! Which is exactly right. So why get in the way? lol! Both sides will negotiate if it wants peace. Right now there is nothing on the table.
This UN vote won't change anything. It will actually make the Pali's feel better though, that they go in to speak with israel onan equal footing.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Pratyush » 17 Sep 2011 15:12

On the subject of Turkey

Erdogan's Middle Eastern Victory Lap

Summary: The Turkish prime minister's recent tour of Egypt, Tunisia, and Libya was meant to distract from his missteps during the Arab Spring. More importantly, it was aimed at convincing Turks that their country is a powerful regional player.

shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 17 Sep 2011 17:30

x post
Jihad-from Kashmir to Kerala
Posted on September 16, 2011 by Vicky Nanjappa

The National Investigating Agency has claimed that it has almost cracked the Delhi blasts case. It is now ascertained that it was an operation planned in the Kishtwar region of Jammu and Kashmir.

However the big question is whether this case is that simple. The angle which both the NIA and the IB would be looking to probe now is whether this new network in Kashmir has a connection with other networks across the country.

The primary issue that has been noticed is that a lot of the funds that are being generated for terror related operations have stopped being generated by the Northern part of the country. There is a great deal of funding that can be witnessed from down South and of the 45 strong cases of money laundering for terror operations, nearly 25 are from South.

Sources in the Intelligence Bureau say that it has been noticed that a large part of the money for operations in the Valley are coming in from states like Kerala and Andhra Pradesh. The Kashmir network is very heavily dependant on the funds from Kerala and what is worse is that it has become an extremely easy channel for terror operatives.

The interrogations that are being conducted into the Delhi blasts is expected to provide an answer to this and that would soon become a focal point of the investigations. A senior police official from Kerala confirms that there is a request from both the IB as well the NIA to provide more details about the networks in the state which are linked to Kashmir. We have conducted our own investigations and have found on more than many ocassions a direct link between the state and the Valley.

The Kerala-Kashmir link was set up at the insistence of Ilyas Kashmiri who had a year back announced openly that he would train a lot of cadres from the Southern state. The statement was just an indication about the role Kashmiri who is also the HuJI boss wanted the cadres from Kerala to play. The ISI and also the HuJI understands the potential in Kerala for two reasons. The first one of course is that it is a hub for Hawala transactions and a lot of that money can be transferred to terror operations. Secondly there is a volatile environment in this state and it is easier to pick up recruits. There is also another aspect to this entire saga and that is there are several youth who do not require any sort of motivation from external forces. There are several self motivated youth who feel strongly about several issues and are ready to carry out operations on their own.

Today when one looks at the terror networks in Kerala it becomes clear that there is no proper organization and command. What the HuJI is trying to do is to bring them all under one forum so that a formidable force is prepared.

Two years back there was an interesting incident emerging out of Kerala which showed signs of the link to the Valley. During a gun battle in the Valley with hardcore terror cadres, it was found that seven of them were from Kerala. This was probably for the first time that Indians were engaged in a fidayeen battle in the Valley and this made the entire country sit up and take notice. During the probe it was also found that several 100 youth from Kerala had gone missing and could have possibly been taken in by Jihadist groups fighting in Kashmir.

As the investigations progressed there were more leads that emerged and a probe which was also conducted by the Bangalore police also led to the arrest of a key operative by the name Sarfaraz Nawaz. This person was brought in from Muscat and it was found that he was a key operative who reported to a module in Kerala. During the probe he also told his interrogators that there was a constant effort being made to set up a proper channel between Kerala and Kashmir.

Today when the investigations into the Delhi blasts are being conducted, the team feels that it should dig deeper into the Kerala network since it has a direct Kashmir connection. What they are tying to look into is whether a module from Kerala helped carry out this attack. They are also trying to find out how much of the funds sourced from Kerala for activities in the Valley were used for this blast. It would also be interesting for the investigators to find out if there is a dedicated channel in Kerala which is helping setting up a huge HuJI base in Kashmir.

The HuJI according to intelligence reports has been trying to make inroads in the Valley. Ever since the big boss Kashmiri made the statement regarding a fight in Kashmir, there has been a lot of effort on part of these cadres to set up a network. While it may have been tough for them to recruit cadres from other parts of the country, they did find it relatively easy to pick up cadres from Kerala.

For this the investigators would revisit the statements given by Nawaz and also T Nasir since these men have spoken about how they were trying to select cadres for operations in Kashmir. What becomes clear is that the HuJI has not only been looking to set up a proper base in Kashmir, but also create smaller groups so that it can carry out terror activities in other parts of the countries.

It needs to be curbed says an officer with the IB. The Kerala to Kashmir route is something that can turn out to be a big headache and it is very important to understand and crack this soon. This would also require a lot of help from countries such as Oman since a major part of the Kerala module which takes care of the funding is settled there. The Oman link the Saudi connection will all come into play during the investigation since investigators today believe that the Delhi blasts is just a pointer of things to come and it is important that it is curbed before it becomes a headache that none can cure.


In response to the Oman connection - India is signing a mutual legal assistanceMoU

The Ambassador said the MoU on mutual legal assistance in criminal and civilian matters is a supplement to the extradition treaty.

"Both need to exist at the same time because both the countries exchange information and provide help in capturing fugitives. With trans-border crimes increasing, it becomes very important to sign this," he told 'Times of Oman'.


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