West Asia News and Discussions

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2014 19:45

Interesting thought that. It would seem all the holy sites in western Saudis are mere idolatry by cop outs.
a true kabila fighter abhores these symbolisms and always mobile.

the su25 is surely primitive vs even the warthog, but its a proven tough hound frm Afghanistan days and should able to cause damage in the day ... Old school rockets nd bombs only.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 30 Jun 2014 20:03

Sow the wind and reap whirlwind - Bible

Saudi, Jordan and Turkey looks like did the Kalidasa option

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jun 2014 20:57

Jordan must be shitting bricks now

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Jun 2014 21:23

If I understand what that Ayad Jamal Al-Din (see the Islamophobia thread) has said on various youtube videos (not linked on BRF), the effect of this declaration of a Sunni Caliphate will be to unite all Shia worldwide. Not just Twelver, but all the various sects. They see their holy places at risk, and their very existence at risk. The only point to rally around is Iran. Al-Din sees this as not a good thing, but as inevitable.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 30 Jun 2014 21:59

Americans claim that SU 25 is a ripoff off the YA-9A which itself was a competitor of the YA - 10 which grew into the warthog. There is a superficial resemblence between the two aircraft.

Not many people know that the SU 25 is equipped with MIG 21 engines which enables it fly out of the battlefield at Mach 1 once it has dropped it's ordinance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_Y ... chdown.jpg

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 30 Jun 2014 22:47

The latest Russian Su-25 is the deeply modernised Su-25SM3 variant , its night capable and comes with other bells and whistles ( DIRCM + EW Suite )

Su-25SM3 Pictures ---> http://russianmilitaryphotos.wordpress. ... -su-25sm3/

Su-25SM3 Cockpit ---> http://smartnews.ru/storage/c/2013/02/2 ... 32_13.jpeg

The one they seem to load down at Iraq looks like plain vanila Su-25 , More pictures of Iraqi Su-25

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/903326.html

Should be good to fight the jihadis but if they have manpad and the old Su-25 have IR warning system then it would be tough to do low level CAS , Pilots will have to work with their instinct to know if they are under manpad attack.

I remember we lost our own Mig-21 and Mi-17 due to Manpad as they had IR warning system to detect manpad.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 30 Jun 2014 23:05

The caliphate simply wont survive even a year.....it just does not have the demographic and military capability to sustain itself....

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 30 Jun 2014 23:07

Bodies of Israeli kidnapped teens found, government confirms
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/06/30 ... -confirms/

Let the poundings begin !!

-M

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 30 Jun 2014 23:19

Samudragupta wrote:The caliphate simply wont survive even a year.....it just does not have the demographic and military capability to sustain itself....

You are still stuck in conventional warfare. This is a full fledged proxy war with the financial backing of the Saudi Royals. This is a battle of minds. Some like ShyamD were saying the same bullsh*t about Taliban and PA, and guess what? They are ready to take half of Afghanistan while the US k*ti retreats with its tail between its legs. The royals are going to be bit hard by this purer than pure virus. It can't be contained outside their borders. They are sowing the seeds of their own destruction. Jordan is going to be gobbled up and the Turks are going to have to deal with a more assertive Kurd population. Where are all these peaceful Muslims who are supposed to stop these guys. Utter horsesh*t if you ask me. I haven't seen one fugging islamic protest anywhere around the world including in India denouncing these guys where the so called "moderate" muslims call home. Perhaps maybe a few shia whimps raised their voices here and there.

One thing people seemed to have missed is ISIS now controls most of the fresh water rivers in Iraq and they are taking over all the major oil fields. The US is going to do what now? Bomb the sh*t out of them? For every fighter they kill, they will be replaced by 4. That worked so well in Afghanistan.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 Jul 2014 00:29

I haven't seen one fugging islamic protest anywhere around the world including in India denouncing these guys where the so called "moderate" muslims call home. Perhaps maybe a few shia whimps raised their voices here and there.

LOL, one can't argue much with a PhD in Islamic Studies and that too a Caliph! Easily the most intelligent, qualified of all the 4 caliphs in the past. he knows exactly what he is doing. Shia's at the receiving end will whine a bit. Action on the ground will depend upon how Iran reacts. Israel is also enraged at the teenagers' killings just in, and they are blaming Hamas for it. ISIS have access to lots of oil, cash, water resources, chemicals. They'd not hesitate to use chemical weapons in towns/ cities..or even poisoning water resources. ME looks set for explosion, unless some major power moves in. Would really like to hear ShyamD's views on the situation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jul 2014 01:34

BTW the new Caliph is supposed to have certain markings and possessions.
- First the beheading sword of Muhammed. Its in Topkapi museum when it got stolen by the Ottoman Turkish Sultan who got thwarted in his invasion of Persia. Zarb-e-Azb?
- He has some physical characteristics
-- Mark on his head
-- Gap in his front teeth like Gen Zia or Terry Thompson the British actor
Dont know what else the ulema might dream up.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 01 Jul 2014 01:37

harbans wrote:
I haven't seen one fugging islamic protest anywhere around the world including in India denouncing these guys where the so called "moderate" muslims call home. Perhaps maybe a few shia whimps raised their voices here and there.
LOL, one can't argue much with a PhD in Islamic Studies and that too a Caliph! Easily the most intelligent, qualified of all the 4 caliphs in the past. he knows exactly what he is doing. Shia's at the receiving end will whine a bit. Action on the ground will depend upon how Iran reacts. Israel is also enraged at the teenagers' killings just in, and they are blaming Hamas for it. ISIS have access to lots of oil, cash, water resources, chemicals. They'd not hesitate to use chemical weapons in towns/ cities..or even poisoning water resources. ME looks set for explosion, unless some major power moves in. Would really like to hear ShyamD's views on the situation.

ShyamD is gone without uttering a word just like his American idols in Afghanistan. Must be an embarrassed chap. In any case, interesting turn of events with the US trying to cozy up to Iran. They must be offering them treats too good to resist. The nuclear deal may go through and they may be given the promise that they can have half of Iraq in exchange for closing their oil bourse. Interesting that the Russians now may feel that they can use ISIS to pressure Iran to stay out of the US court. The US may even be able to use Chabahar and bypass Pakistan altogether to support the Karzai regime in Afghanistan.

Israel benefits from all this by creating a sea of fire around itself. They will keep the Islamic world embroiled in its own internal conflict and slowly nibble at its periphery. If Iran can hold the line we will be able to buy 1-2 decades and secure and integrate our neighborhood.

The US can use the excuse that its oil interests are threatened and bolster its presence in the Middle East with Iran as its principal ally. The US may also benefit from a less virulent and stable Shia faith taking the reins.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Jul 2014 02:05

The sunni caliphate is a political terrorist arrogance that may only live under constant bomb threat.

I'd hate to be the guy responsible for fence security at Prince Abdullah ManyChins Air Force Base in KSA today. U know, where they keep the F-15s... Time for all loyally Pure pilots to do their Holy Duty..

Are they going to sit in their airconditioned condos and watch the True Caliph of Baghdad get blown to bits in the holy (desert) land of ISNT - or worse, "renditioned" to Lubyanka Square by the Apostates, hain?

BTW, any F-22s or F35s been delivered to KSA yet?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 01 Jul 2014 02:17

Meanwhile the Head of Saudi Intelligence is touring Washington again and hanging out with kufr wimmens

Prince Bandar-bin-Sultan

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Jul 2014 03:29

ISIS Promises to Destroy the Kaaba in Mecca
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ca_1404 ... BGy2K.99ia

ISIS Islamists promised to work destroy the Kaaba after its conquest of Saudi Arabia.APAFree Republic:
Representatives of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) stated that they will ruin the Kaaba after capturing Saudi Arabia.

APA reports quoting Turkish media that ISIS wants to take control of Arar city of Saudi Arabia and start operations here.

ISIS member Abu Turab Al Mugaddasi said that they would destroy the Kaaba in Mecca: “If Allah wills, we will kill those who worship stones in Mecca and destroy the Kaaba. People go to Mecca to touch the stones, not for Allah.”

The ISIS terrorist group has a reputation for destroying ancient artifacts and religious monuments.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8ca_1404 ... kYBGy2K.99

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Jul 2014 03:41

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/ ... udi-arabia

Will Saudi become the first nation that will ban Islam and adopt some other religion as state religion?

The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), the former Al-Qaeda affiliate that has seized over one-third of Iraq, is open about its desire to establish a new caliphate with Baghdad as its capital. ISIS supporters are distributing propaganda on social media indicating its next targets towards that goal are Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

The image (above) shows territory in Iraq and Syria currently held by ISIS with arrows indicating future expansion into Jordan and Saudi Arabia. Interestingly, there are no arrows pointing into the Shiite-majority southern Iraq:

ISIS supporters are also spreading a graphic that purportedly shows its five-year plan to reestablish a caliphate that stretches from western Africa to Indonesia, conquering Israel, Iran and India. It was first spotted by NBC News foreign correspondent Ayman Mohyeldin. The picture lacks the professionalism of other ISIS-issued propaganda, perhaps indicating it reflects the aspiration of a supporter than a plan drawn up by the ISIS leadership.

ISIS and its supporters have proven to be masters of social media. Much of its online propaganda is in English and involves sarcasm and dark humor. One pro-ISIS account retweeted a joke about the national bird of Yemen and Pakistan being the drone. Supporters in Indonesia are also selling pro-ISIS clothing online. The group’s social media strength is so great that the Iraqi government is blocking Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Google.

If ISIS’s propaganda is any indication, Jordan and Saudi Arabia should prepare for an assault after ISIS finishes consolidating its hold over the Sunni areas of Iraq. Social media will be an integral part of that assault.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Jul 2014 03:56

Time to nuke ISIS with mini-nukes.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jul 2014 04:12

Philip, Dont you know that will destabilize the world and lower the threshold!!!!

slamic Society is like a wild jungle with predators and prey. The prey have subsumed all noble humane instincts to survive to live another day. The predators are the ruling elite: rulers, mullahs etc and the prey are the common folks who can't escape the predators clutches. The worst part is Anglo-Saxon West ensures the predators rule over the prey and talk about Westphalian nation state laws that prevent them from acting for humanity.

The West has failed Jesus.

The consequence is they will become prey eventually.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 01 Jul 2014 04:30

Technically, if you break the stones at Mecca, does that mean that praying in the direction of Mecca will also go into the garbage? Perhaps, this is the answer to loosening Arab hold over the faith.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jul 2014 04:44

Some extremist sect of Sunni Islam already broke the Kaaba stone with hammers. Its now held together with silver metallic mesh.*

* Will let hakims' ruminate on the allusion.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Jul 2014 05:03

Why silver which gets tarnished? Why not gold of which they have plenty? Concerned that the Faithful might cut themselves a piece of Holiness to take back as souvenirs?
But this whole thing is so literally stunning that we are all, well, stunned. Circa 1999 the tale was that Osama had been kicked out and had a price on his head because KSA was terrified of his brand of Pure Islam which saw them (Saud family) as decadent sell-outs to the Great Satan.
Today we see a huge horde taking over right next door and declaring the unique Authority of their Calphate. Isn't this precisely what KSA claimed to be terrified about?
Where's Operation Desert Shield to protect them? Or is BO fallen in line with the ISNT?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Jul 2014 08:52

CNN had a smug expert claiming the jihadi movement is split between Isis and AlQ. Fool doesn't know AlQ origin's are same as ISIS. Its time for a harder version of Islamists. What is London saying?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2014 09:56

the stone is held inside a eye shaped silver hood. not sure if its broken being black and recessed a bit.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/ffximag ... pic3,0.jpg

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2014 09:58

in the history of Islam have there been other older militant orders who have taken the same posture that Hajj and hajj sites are all haram and idolatry ? or is ISIS a new stronger and purer genetic mutation?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 01 Jul 2014 10:06

Jordan will fall first before the shite hits Saudi.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 01 Jul 2014 10:52

Why would Netenyahu come out openly in support of the formation of a Kurdistan? Most Kurds are still Muslim, and has Israeli "support" for any Muslim state ever improved that state's chances of survival? Its the proverbial kiss of death.

Perhaps the Israel prefers to divert Sunni Muslim attention to Kurdistan (with its interlocking entanglements with Iran, Turkey and Arab lands) rather than have ISIS move towards its immediate environs (Jordan, Saudi) at this point in time.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Jul 2014 11:07

I think lot of westerner pundits treat Kurds as if they are not Muslims and don't have same tendencies or aspirations as other Muslim states. Freedom of Kurdistan will bring few surprises out in open.

Once Kurdistan is formed, Israel will very soon realize that the chant which vibrates in the CBD of Tehran is the chant being sung in the by lanes of Arbil which is "Death to Israel".
Israel has no friend from Africa to Indonesia except for India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2014 12:36

looking at the bloody frontiers of Islam, whoever has survived the onslaught and been able to impose a stable frontier albeit subject to periodic attacks/nibbling is pretty heavily armed citizenry.

israel ,central africa, rural eastern europe, CAR states with their large ethnic russian pop and tatar/mongol rural people and traditions of fighting and hunting, thailand, vietnam, cambodia, myanmar.... absolutely no lack of arms and armed civilians there.

it is only india whose citizens have been abjectly disarmed, controlled and told to sit in good faith that the police and army are only going to protect them. and we all know those whose wish is to raise the black flag here are always gather lethal arms if not firearms. only in the punjab is the citizenry armed to some extent, from bitter experience.

just a stray thought.

per capita the islamic block perhaps has the highest number of arms anywhere, except maybe usa. just watch videos of TSP wedding celebrations...enough automatic guns , rifles and pistols to scare away anything short of a army unit.

vijaykarthik · Post by **vijaykarthik** » 01 Jul 2014 13:09

Dilbu wrote:Jordan will fall first before the shite hits Saudi.

Just to clarify: You wanted to mean Shiite or _Shit_?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 01 Jul 2014 13:36

It is happening albeit a glacial pace. North India has no dearth of Katta makers. Problem is release of firearms will make accessible to the seculars or Maoists and will make the task easier for the ISI who will be saved the trouble of shipping arms like in 26/11 or to J&K.

I believe the pop in western India even if unarmed is sufficiently indoctrinated to the secular threat. This IMO is more important than arming the pop with firearms. The success of the VDC experiment in Hindu Jammu is validated by the fact that there has been no civilian massacre there since the 90s. A VDC committee armed with Enfields and within close call of the army is sufficient to ward off the ISI spawned mongrels.

However the next version of the Sunni threat building up in Iraq would be a different story. This strain of the Sunni militia urgently needs to be diverted towrds the SA/Jordan area for the next 10 - 20 years to wear itself out. As said before, Iran is the buffer and Pakistan is the frontier for hinterland India. If Iran goes under, then two strains would combine and will be a real danger on the lines of the threat India has not faced since 712 when the sassanids buckled under the Ommayyids. Hence It is Iran which needs to be shored up. Russia faces similar threat to it's caucasus areas and the Central asia and Turkey regions represent the buffer which protect it from the Islamist threat.

Currently It the eastern part that is the soft underbelly of India where the threat from the Maoists is the clear and present danger and this region along with the NE needs to be saturated with cantonments who will pacify the area and this needs to be done ASAP while Pakistan goes belly up.

The good news is that the counterreaction in the nationalist circles is building. A Hindu nationalist is the PM. Nationalist power is no pushover like in 1977. Nationalist govts are regular feature in western India and can step in there is infiltration is building in Rajasthan. Punjab pop is sufficiently armed and can take any threat under current circumstances. When KPs are resettled in J&K they will need some training and defence from random attacks.

Afterthought. Remember reading in India Today after the Ojhiri blasts. Pakis were warning India of their prowess and desist from another war. As early as the late 80s the Af-Pak region had more small arms than the India-Paki armies combined.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 01 Jul 2014 14:32

Jordan has from the 90's onwards had a serious problem with Salafi jihadi sympathisers and returnees. Zarqawi was Jordanian.

Ma'an in the south usually sees an civil uprising every 5-10 years.

But Jordan will not go over unless, as in northern Iraq the tribes get fed up with the government and ally with the jihadists. Although there is unhappiness, its nothing close to the mistrust and hatred between Maliki and the tribes of the North West.

What we will probably see is more Gulf money and more American aid to buy off discontent and ease the economic strains from the masses of Iraqi and Syrian refugees.

But the amount of background violence is sure to increase to something more like Lebanon.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Jul 2014 14:39

In the end, How far Sunni Wahabi Kingdoms be willing to help Shia Iran-Iraq-Syria to quell this Sunni uprising which anyways these Gulf-doms were instigating for quite some time?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 01 Jul 2014 14:40

vijaykarthik wrote:
Dilbu wrote:Jordan will fall first before the shite hits Saudi.
Just to clarify: You wanted to mean Shiite or _Shit_?

The yellow variety.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 01 Jul 2014 14:43

Singha wrote:in the history of Islam have there been other older militant orders who have taken the same posture that Hajj and hajj sites are all haram and idolatry ? or is ISIS a new stronger and purer genetic mutation?

it is just a recurring strain, absolutely nothing new in it.

The stone was broken within 125 years of Mohammad during a civil war for the position of caliph. It has been used as a bargaining chip and was removed from its postion for around 20 years.

The extreme views movements started with the first islamic civil war within 20 years of Mohammed, which was the war which was between the third caliph, Uthman. He was finally assassinated by them and was not even allowed to be buried in the muslim grave yard.

The third right fully guided Caliph was not allowed to be buried in a muslim grave yard and was buried in jewish one.

You might want to read up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawarij

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 Jul 2014 14:47

Frankly it makes little sense to fight AQ, Taliban, ISIS, LeT, Boko Haram separately as perversions of the mother doctrine. All that does is make available funds at a late stage to those dictators/govts/ people trying to stave off the 'perversions' even when they are making massive inroads within sections of the society. To top it many Govts fund the perversions as Pak with LeT, Taliban or the Saudi's with so many other groups. For civilized democracies it is the most stupid decision to address the perversions (and in many cases the perversion too has been funded by the West) alone as separate from the mother doctrine. If you want to tackle the perversions, start with the mother doctrine. Discredit it, shame it, mock it, make avenues for people to leave it safely. But keep doctrinally hammering and isolating the mother doctrinal perversion so that the mother snake may not give birth to more of these reptiles.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 01 Jul 2014 15:15

VikasRaina wrote:In the end, How far Sunni Wahabi Kingdoms be willing to help Shia Iran-Iraq-Syria to quell this Sunni uprising which anyways these Gulf-doms were instigating for quite some time?

They'll cut off support to groups that start to threaten their own internal stability, or the stability of key allies as ISIL most certainly will.

Between volunteers and fundraisers groups like ISIS now have a constituency within the Gulf states, and that will mean a confrontation, just as there was a confrontation with 'Al Qaeda of the Arabian Peninsula' 2003-08 until the struggle was confined to Yemen.

The Saudis want what the Pakistani Army wants, an obedient 'good Taliban.' Just like the PA they inevitably find themselves struggling with a 'bad Taliban' that are angry about being jerked around on a leash.

The Gulf states are less likely to change their overall approach any time soon than the Pakistani Army.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 01 Jul 2014 16:38

One thing with the ISIS that we are not sure of is the degree of consolidation that they would be able to maintain and the other is what weapon systems they might be able to procure. Towards that it would be good to know what human capabilities and resources they could muster to conduct mass killings from poisoning water resources in towns to chemical or nuclear dirty bombs. They do have an international setup, so any info regarding those capabilities would certainly be of interest.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 01 Jul 2014 16:45

http://en.apa.az/news/213369

Baku. Rashad Suleymanov – APA. Representatives of the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) stated that they will ruin the Kaaba after capturing Saudi Arabia.

APA reports quoting Turkish media that ISIS wants to take control of Arar city of Saudi Arabia and start operations here.

ISIS member Abu Turab Al Mugaddasi said that they would destroy the Kaaba in Mecca: “If Allah wills, we will kill those who worship stones in Mecca and destroy the Kaaba. People go to Mecca to touch the stones, not for Allah.”

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 01 Jul 2014 17:31

I don't see the current 'caliphate' remaining stable for long. Thinking as a state, they're in competition with all the surrounding states especially given the speed of their advance and their rejection of all existing borders

The American drone machine (and all of the less visible stuff that feeds it) is cranking up, and they will be targeting leadership and communications. Dealing with that threat would force them to behave more like a guerrilla movement and less like a consolidated state.

But I think what has emerged is the Sunni equivalent of Hezbollah in the Arab world - committed, organised and able to transition between urban terrorism and rural insurgency, between acting like a guerrilla movement and acting like a mini state whenever local conditions are favorable. The difference is that these guys are utterly fanatic in their sectarian and religious hatred.

What they lack so far is endorsement from leading clerics around the Muslim world. If they get it, they'll be even harder to beat down. Hezbollah had Khomeini's backing and that was a huge force multiplier.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Jul 2014 18:15

ramana: At the risk of being declared even more Brasht by the Faithful on all sides,

the stone is held inside a eye shaped silver hood. not sure if its broken being black and recessed a bit.

Any correlation with your question on other thread? Belief came out of the same place?
It IS pretty laughable that these twerps who rail against idli worship themselves go thousands of miles to go worship a stone, attired more or less like those who worshipped tens of thousands of years ago.. Then they come back from there and go loot a few more places of worship of others??

But whatever be the legend, the truth remains that silver tarnishes, with all these millions breathing CO2 and CH4 and H2O and RDX all around it.