West Asia News and Discussions

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby gunjur » 02 Sep 2012 19:51

Mursi continuing with purging of army???

Egypt defense minister retires 70 army generals: report

In that surprise announcement, Mursi also scrapped a key constitutional document which gave the military legislative powers.

In addition to the generals he reportedly dismissed, the paper said Sisi removed six SCAF members: Mamdouh Abdel Hakk, Ismail Etman, Mohsen al-Fangari, Sami Diab, Adel Emara, and Mokhtar al-Mulla, citing unnamed sources.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Prem » 03 Sep 2012 10:07

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breakin ... 012/09/01/
For the first time in 2,000 years, there will be no Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur services at the Eliyahu Hanavi Synagogue in Alexandria in 5773, reports Daniel Greenfield in “In The Point.”
This was the last active synagogue in Egypt. The Egyptian authorities’ excuse for the shut-down, effectively outlawing High Holiday services in the country, were “security” reasons.Levana Zamir, head of the International Association of Egyptian Jews in Israel, said: “It seems this is really the end of Jewish life in Egypt. The authorities have found a way to take over the last Jewish bastion, since all the remaining synagogues are already archaeological and tourist sites. It is very sad.”This is yet another example of the fact that Jewish life is becoming extinct in the Muslim world.Indeed. But remember, the real problem is "Islamophobia."

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 03 Sep 2012 13:48

Well,the longer a peace solution between Israel and the Palestinians is delayed,the gap between Musims and Jews will only widen,with Islamist extremists making the most of it.

Complicating the equation,is this latest spat on the Turko-Syrian border involving the Kurds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... order.html

Nine Turkish officials killed near Syrian border
Nine Turkish security officials including soldiers and policemen have been killed during clashes with Kurdish militants near the southeastern border with Syria and Iraq, security sources said on Monday.

Nine Turkish officials killed near Syrian border
Nine Turkish security officials including soldiers and policemen have been killed during clashes with Kurdish militants near the southeastern border with Syria and Iraq, security sources said on Monday.

Fighting between the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) and the Turkish army has intensified in recent months Photo: MUSTAFA OZER/AFP/Getty Images6:56AM BST 03 Sep 2012
At least eight other members of the security services were wounded in the fighting in the province of Sirnak, and the clashes were continuing, the sources said.

Fighting between the Turkish army and rebels from the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) has intensified in recent months, a development which some Turkish officials and analysts have linked to the chaos in Syria.

The militants killed five soldiers in a bomb attack on a military convoy two weeks ago. The Turkish military retaliated quickly, killing 21 rebels in an operation involving helicopter gunships.

More than 40,000 people have been killed in the conflict between the PKK and Turkish forces since the militants launched their insurgency 28 years ago with the aim of carving out a separate state in mainly Kurdish southeastern Turkey.

The PKK is listed as a terrorist organisation by Turkey, the United States and the European Union. Some Turkish officials have said the group is getting direct support from Syria's President Bashar al-Assad and Kurdish groups in Syria.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 04 Sep 2012 08:14

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/03 ... rotesters/

UK spyware targets Bahrain protesters


The British company Gamma International has produced a malware that is used for spying on Bahraini activists through taking control of smart phones such as iPhone and Blackberry.


The malware, which was allegedly designed for helping trap criminals, is being used by oppressive administrations including the al-Khalifa regime in Bahrain to spy on revolutionaries.

According to a study by the University of Toronto Munk School of Global Affairs’ Citizen Lab, the Trojan called FinFisher remotely monitors calls, texts and emails, captures keystrokes, steals contact lists, turns on device microphone to record ambient sounds and tracks owners via GPS.

Researchers have also found the signature of Martin Muench who is managing director of Gamma International as well as head of its FinFisher product portfolio in the malware used in Bahrain, media reports said.

However, the company has denied that it sells software to Bahrain admitting “the ruling regime has been accused of perpetuating a string of human right violations, especially involving police force putting down anti-government protests.”

The Citizen Lab survey said it has seen “structurally similar” Android spyware that communicate with command-and-control servers in Britain and the Czech Republic.

IT security experts have warned that the malware, which can also hit Android, Windows Mobile and Symbian devices, is being used in limited but highly-targeted attacks, many of them by oppressive regime against political dissidents.

"Obviously, if your company is doing business in the Middle East you are already on high alert for attacks of this type,” said Cameron Camp, ESET IT security researcher.

Gamma International is now under fire as questions are being asked about which countries the company should be doing business with, after Egyptian revolutionaries found evidence in the state security headquarters last year that the company had offered to sell FinFisher to Hosni Mubarak’s regime before it was toppled.

Gamma International is only one in a long list of major companies with a record of helping government crackdowns on dissidents.

Facebook, Twitter, Blackberry and Google (through its YouTube service) are some of the firms that limited or cut off their services to protesters during last year’s summer unrest in Britain.

The four business giants did not allow activists to post messages or videos related to protests while their information was also revealed to the police and spy agencies seeking their arrests.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 04 Sep 2012 08:23

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... urkey.html

Syria and Iran 'backing Kurdish terrorist group', says Turkey

Kurdish-dominated provinces in Turkey have been swept by an upsurge in attacks by the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in recent weeks.
Fighting has spiked since the group gained control of dozens of villages across northern Syria this summer, when the regime concentrated its forces on Aleppo.

Ten soldiers and twenty PKK fighters were reported killed yesterday in overnight clashes in the town of Beytussebap in the Sirnak province of Turkey. It was the largest of four separate PKK attacks near the Syrian border.

In a separate incident, a suspected suicide bomber was shot dead by the security forces near Sanliurfa city.
The PKK has been at war with Ankara for thirty years and the conflict has claimed 45,000 lives. But recent fighting has been the worst for more than a decade and Turkish leaders have pointed the finger directly at President Bashar al-Assad.

"It's known that the PKK works arm in arm with Syria's intelligence organisation," said Huseyin Celik, the deputy chairman of Turkey's AK party. "Assad is inclined to view Turkey's foe, the PKK, as a friend."

Officials said the cross-border element to the attacks can be traced to eastern Syrian enclaves where the flags of the PKK and its allies have been hoisted to demonstrate de facto control.

Turkish suspicions of a conspiracy between neighbouring regimes have been fuelled by a simultaneous PKK offensive in the eastern province of Semdinli, which borders Iran.

Turkish newspapers last week reported claims that more than 100 Iranian agents were active in Turkey working on behalf of the PKK.
Meanwhile Syrian regime documents seized by rebels include instructions to resist the advance of Turkish influence.
Towns such as Afrin, west of Aleppo, and Qamishli, to the east, are controlled by the PKK and its local offshoot the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD), and are off-limits to Syrian rebels.

Mohammad Haj Hassan, the most prominent Kurdish commander in the rebel movement fighting in Aleppo, told The Daily Telegraph the PKK exerts a strong grip on his fellow Kurds.

"There are no-go places for us because of the PKK's ties to the regime," he said. "When the rebellion broke out the PKK was given arms and they fought us. Now they defend the towns they control but don't let us enter. It is one of the greatest problems for the revolution."

With a large ethnic Turkish population residing cheek-by-jowl with the Kurds, northern Syria is pockmarked with potential flashpoints.
Hisham Mousa, a Turkmen farmer from the town of Jaqala, said threats from the PKK in Doudian, the next-door village, had forced some of his neighbours to flee.

"We have very little to do with Doudian. They have their ways and we have ours," he said. "But now they are under the control of the PKK and very threatening to those of us who have joined the revolution. "Some of the people have gone away because they fear there will be fighting."

Mr Hassan, a schoolteacher turned warlord, said the PKK's strong organisation in the area made it difficult for local moderates to stand up against its cadres.

"Assad has been cultivating the PKK since the 1980s to provide just this level of protection for his regime," he said. "It is a card for Damascus and they are playing it against us and Turkey at the same time."

Syrian rebels fear their uprising has been exploited by the PKK to ship weapons and explosives across the border. Rebels in Aazaz on the Turkish border said they had set up checkpoints to screen traffic in the days leading up to a car-bomb attack last month in Gaziantep that killed ten. "There was a checkpoint to stop suspicious vehicles just before the attack," said Abu Amir, a local revolutionary. "However the bomb got through to the city."

Turkish security analysts believe that by unleashing the PKK, Mr Assad has achieved a tactical victory that makes foreign military intervention on behalf of the rebels less feasible.

"The idea behind this policy is to create an administration that will be fundamentally opposed to Turkish domination of that area, or to act as a buffer zone or deterrent in the case of direct military invasion from Turkey," said Prof Abbas Vali, at Istanbul's Bogazici University told Zaman newspaper.

Turkey's government had begun a tentative peace process with the PKK, whose leader Abdullah Ocalan languishes in solitary confinement in a Turkish prison, before the Syrian crisis erupted.

But with the organisation's return to full-scale guerrilla attacks, hopes for a settlement that would grant formal autonomy to the country's 14 million Kurds have been dashed.

"The refugees will one day go home," said one Turkish official. "But the foreign influence over the PKK means that this problem is here to stay."

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 04 Sep 2012 09:17

1. Turkey definitely involved now.

2. Saudi agenda is destruction of Assad and his base; wiping the Alawites from power; remove this Iranian lever on ME; keep the Sunni banner under their control.

3. Involvement of Turkey unlikely to result in Saudis achieving full control of the Sunni flag.

4. It might now become necessary for Turkey to keep Assad alive in some form. I don't think the Turkish calculation involves the Saudis claiming the mantle of Sunni flag-bearers. the over noise of "Assad nurturing Kurds" might just be the cover they need to take preemptive action against Kurds and at the same time neutralize Saudi plans for consolidation. In short, the Turks might just want to keep Assad and Alawite power base around until the time when they believe they've sufficiently neutralized the Kurds and have gained the upper hand in Sunni power politics.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 04 Sep 2012 21:24

Closer to intervention but still very limited ways. Central command political adviser paid source a visit. Wonder what's up. Let's see

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 05 Sep 2012 01:00

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-575 ... ime-falls/

Syrian rebel leader calls for "Marshall Plan" to rebuild country after Assad regime falls


A Syrian opposition leader called Tuesday for a massive aid program to help rebuild his country after President Bashar Assad's regime falls, warning that a lack of economic development could open the door to extremism.

A top German official representing donor nations, meanwhile, said Syria's opposition factions must overcome their current divisions.

Abdelbaset Sieda, the head of the Syrian National Council, told a meeting of Syrian opposition representatives and diplomats that Syria would need a program similar to the Marshall Plan, the post-World War II European reconstruction effort, if the Assad regime collapses.

He said Assad's regime has devastated public finances and institutions to such an extent that Syria won't be able to rely immediately - or solely - on oil revenues and taxes in any rebuilding effort.

"In the aftermath of the destruction ... we are convinced Syria needs a Marshall-style plan to ensure it stands again on solid financial and economic ground," Sieda said in Berlin. "Without real comprehensive development, we will open up the opportunity for the growth of all kinds of extremism."

The gathering on economic rebuilding, which Germany chairs jointly with the United Arab Emirates, aimed to address how to prevent basic services and infrastructure from collapsing and how to revive the economy in a post-Assad Syria.

Without identifying any countries by name, Sieda also warned that any nation now helping the Assad regime could not expect to get its money back under a new government.

"The Syrian people are not bound by any contract signed by the regime after the beginning of this revolution, or any sale of treasury bonds or purchase of weapons or contracts with any country," he said.

Russia, in particular, has been criticized for blocking U.N. sanctions against Syria and continuing to supply it with military material throughout the conflict. Assad regime officials have also asked Russia for loans to replenish Syria's hard currency reserves, which have been depleted by international embargoes on Syrian exports.

Unlike neighboring Iraq, where reconstruction after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion was hampered by an ongoing insurgency, Syria lacks vast oil reserves that could kick-start the economy and help finance the reconstruction of damaged infrastructure.

The meeting's host, German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle, said economic recovery and a successful political transition must go hand in hand, and called on the international community to be ready to provide economic support.

"There can be no doubt, the days of the regime are numbered: it has lost all legitimacy to represent the Syrian people, it is crumbling from inside," Westerwelle said. "On the international level it is increasingly isolated; the overwhelming majority of countries reject the massive violation of human rights; there is no future for Bashar Assad in a new Syria."

But he stressed the importance of overcoming another problem: the divisions within Syria's opposition.

"The people in Syria must see that there is a credible alternative to the regime of Bashar Assad," he said, urging the opposition "to create as fast as possible the conditions for ... a transition government."

Asked if he would go as far as French President Francois Hollande's call for the Syrian opposition to form a provisional government now, Westerwelle indicated more work was still necessary before that could happen.


"I will have a discussion tomorrow with my French colleague ... but it's obvious that at the moment it's necessary to unify the opposition," he said.

Bassma Kodmani, who resigned last week from the Syrian National Council saying there was too much infighting among opposition groups, said in addition to economic reconstruction, the international community needs to start thinking of how to fill the security vacuum that would be left.

"Starting today, we need to plan the re-creation of the security system in Syria - we might need peacekeeping forces that are mandated by the Security Council," said Kodmani, who attended as a representative of the Syrian Business Forum.

She said even though Russia and China have continued to veto U.N. Security Council proposals for action against Syria, she hoped they might be persuaded to accept post-Assad measures.

Violence in Syria has been escalating in recent weeks. The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has raised its total death toll to between 23,000 and 26,000 people since the uprising began in March 2011.

Activists say some 5,000 people were killed in August, the highest toll in the 17-month-old uprising and more than three times the monthly average. The U.N. children's agency says 1,600 people were killed last week alone.

On Tuesday, the U.N. refugee agency said 100,000 refugees fled Syria in August, the highest monthly total since the uprising began.

The rise in people seeking asylum in neighboring countries brings the total of Syrian refugees registered or awaiting registration to over 234,360, spokeswoman Melissa Fleming said in Geneva.

The new refugee figures on Syrians fleeing their war-torn nation come as the new head of the International Committee of the Red Cross met President Bashar Assad in Damascus to push the dictator to allow greater humanitarian access to people cut off from basic goods supplies by the fighting.

CBS News' George Baghdadi reports that the Red Cross has about 50 foreign and Syrian aid workers in the country at present, but all have been confined to central Damascus since late July due to the heavy fighting in other parts of the country.



Translation:

Syria: We need "aid" now or we'll perish against Assad.
Germany: You have too many "differences" >> first indication that they are being far more circumspect than simply jump up and down about "freedom" and "democracy".

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Virupaksha » 05 Sep 2012 01:23

devesh wrote:Germany: You have too many "differences" >> first indication that they are being far more circumspect than simply jump up and down about "freedom" and "democracy".

Devesh garu,

My translation would be - I do not like either the faction which is leading right now or the domination of the faction I like is not overwhelming.
More important will be the French views because of the historical connections.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 05 Sep 2012 01:39

FSA are integrating into the Syrian national army structure. Negotiations are ongoing

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 05 Sep 2012 01:53

shyamd wrote:FSA are integrating into the Syrian national army structure. Negotiations are ongoing


:rotfl:

if there were a few more ridiculous smileys, I'd definitely include all of them...
there is no way that Assad will ever recruit from these "rebels".

also, why the sudden shift? are the "sources" changing their tune? wasn't Assad's departure "virtually guaranteed"?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 05 Sep 2012 01:58

Errmm... This is the Free Syrian National army - they are changing their name and structure as I said earlier. Not part of Asads troops.
Last edited by shyamd on 05 Sep 2012 02:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 05 Sep 2012 02:05

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army

OK, what is this Free Syrian National Army? never heard of it. there is only FSA, and you are saying that it is "integrating" into the FSNA, when there is no such thing called the FSNA.....I'm afraid you need to stop speaking in riddles.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 05 Sep 2012 02:07

Yes they are changing their name. There are articles in this thread talking about it

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 05 Sep 2012 02:15

^^^
OK, I should definitely start using this tactic form now on. post something inane and utterly irrelevant to the discussion and then delete it at a later time. I've seen it used successfully at least a few times now.

OK, FSA is becoming FSNA. what is the point of that? other than to dazzle us with useless info? and going back to your original post, what "negotiations"? if it is just FSA becoming FSNA, then what negotiations, and with whom? I'll repeat myself. stop speaking in riddles and obfuscating the issue.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Virupaksha » 05 Sep 2012 02:31

Devesh garu,

It is important if we look at the article on German views in sync, it means that the "weeding out" of those whom west cannot control is in active progress.
In the next few days, we can expect to hear either
1) a civil war within civil war, i.e. infighting among the rebels. I expect that they will be called spies of Assad before killing or
2) even better, let Assad take care of them by expending his resources through selective intel leaks. So you will hear over the next few days that the rebels will be on the back foot. The only catch is that those on the "backfoot" or getting destroyed will not be given a seat at the table and are the "unwanted idealists".


This second piece of news actually is a semi-independent confirmation of the article. This is not a board name repaint. It means that FSA has become "too difficult" to handle and FSNA is a way out to wipe off the idealist rebels, who do not submit to the outside interests.

Shyamd had given us enough clues about this. IIRC he told that there is a 2-3 day "orientation" session before some one can join in.

It also means that the end game whatever it is according to them is closer than we think.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby nachiket » 05 Sep 2012 03:20

devesh wrote:^^^
OK, I should definitely start using this tactic form now on. post something inane and utterly irrelevant to the discussion and then delete it at a later time. I've seen it used successfully at least a few times now.

OK, FSA is becoming FSNA. what is the point of that? other than to dazzle us with useless info? and going back to your original post, what "negotiations"? if it is just FSA becoming FSNA, then what negotiations, and with whom? I'll repeat myself. stop speaking in riddles and obfuscating the issue.

I think he meant the Syrian National Council. There is no such organization called the Syrian National Army, unless one was talking about the Syrian Army (Assad's forces) itself.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 05 Sep 2012 04:11

Devesh, The bit I deleted was what I posted already: Gen Assef Shawkat and his wife were issued diplomatic visas by the UAE who offered Asad asylum.

It's irrelevant for you because you can't seem to comprehend what it means being integrated into a national infrastructure and command and control instead of loose rag tag rebels with guns calling themselves FSA.

Negotiations between the rebel groups to join and agree to the national charters, code of conduct etc.

This is stuff I've been talking about for some time and just adding on to my previous posts

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 05 Sep 2012 14:24

shyamd wrote:The Saudi press agency released a photo of him a few weeks back to dispel rumours.

------------------------

He will be in Turkey next week or week after to meet with the Turkish intel Chief Hakan fidan. Saudi intel operatives are posted in Adana where they are providing training and logistics along with other GCC and Turkish counterparts

Bandar will also be speaking with the Russian FSB chief about Syria as Moscow is apparently now the only capital that is backing Syria. Beijing is not really bothered. They are recruiting pakis ISI guys to fill the ranks of the GID as they don't have enough personell. They want to build a counterweight in Lebanon eastern KSA Bahrain and Iraq where Iran is trying to meddle.

Deputy GID chief is Bandars son!


@BreakingNews: China backs Syria 'political transition' to end worsening bloodshed after 18 months of unrest, Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi says - @Reuters

Just to confirm that Moscow is the last capital to back Asad

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby pentaiah » 05 Sep 2012 14:43

Revealed for the first time: A mission in Syria that never took place
Israel has never admitted to the 2007 bombing of a Syrian nuclear reactor. This is the inside story of how the facility's existence was established and how it was destroyed.
By Yossi Melman and Dan Raviv | Aug.10, 2012 | 8:00 PM
Tweet
THIS STORY IS BY
Yossi Melman
Dan Raviv

http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.457384.1344585199!/image/3319682304.jpg
The site of the Syrian reactor, before the attack. Photo by Reuters

The site of the Syrian reactor, after the attack. Photo by Reuters
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.457387.1344585322!/image/2242174562.jpg

The Mossad director, Meir Dagan, was on his way to a routine chat with the prime minister, on Ehud Olmert's once-a-week day in Tel Aviv. When Israel's leader had a secret talk scheduled, his office calendar showed two Hebrew letters, peh and aleph, an abbreviation for pgisha ishit, "personal meeting." Usually, the term referred to conversations with the chiefs of the Mossad, Shin Bet security service, Military Intelligence and the Israel Atomic Energy Commission.

On this spring day in 2007, Dagan was intending to brief Olmert on various intelligence matters, with nothing unusual on the agenda. Halfway from the Mossad's headquarters at Glilot, near Herzliya, to the prime minister's modest, two-story office in the Kirya [defense establishment] compound, in central Tel Aviv, however, Dagan received a phone call.

His chief intelligence officer had news, but worded it cautiously. "That thing we are working on? It's certain."

Dagan immediately understood, and he told the chief analyst to rush to the Kirya to join the meeting with Olmert. The two senior Mossad men laid out for the prime minister what Israeli spy satellites - and now spies on the ground - had been able to verify was taking place in a remote part of eastern Syria, about 300 miles northeast of Damascus. The Syrians were close to completing construction of a nuclear reactor.

The Mossad's "unconventional weapons" researchers assessed that the reactor was closely modeled on a North Korean design, was being built with the help of advisers from that country, and that the goal was to produce plutonium as the fissile material for bombs. The site was called Al-Kibar, according to Syrian officials in phone calls intercepted by MI's Unit 8200. The Mossad had also gotten its hands on photos, apparently taken by Syrians, showing the inside of the building, and of a visit by a senior North Korean nuclear official.

Olmert had become prime minister only in January of the previous year, when Ariel Sharon suffered a stroke and could no longer serve in the position. Hearing about Syria's secret project, he turned grimly serious. "What are we going to do about it?" he asked reflexively.

Within minutes, it was clear that the question had been rhetorical. The two Mossad men and the prime minister all knew that Israel would have to demolish the Syrian reactor.

A.Q. Khan

On Christmas Eve 2003, the world woke up to dramatic news: Colonel Muammar Gadhafi's Libya was giving up its weapons of mass destruction, which included a nascent nuclear program and a large arsenal of chemical weapons. The announcement took Israel's intelligence services completely by surprise, and the heads of those services did not like surprises.

What really grabbed the Israeli agencies about the Libya story was the revelation that Gadhafi's nuclear program had been born out of the efforts and expertise of the Pakistani merchant of atomic knowhow, Abdul Qadeer Khan.

At the time, Dagan and his chief intelligence officer wondered to themselves: Since they missed the whole Libyan deal, what else had they missed? After the new year, the Mossad's research department was ordered to go back into its archives and examine every piece of humint and sigint information it had accumulated, in the past decade, about Khan's activities as a nuclear traveling salesman.

Intelligence agencies often gather more data than they can read and analyze, and individual intercepts and data points are not always immediately pieced together into a coherent mosaic. The Mossad realized that - in addition to Libya - Khan had traveled to Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria. Further evaluation led to the conclusion that the Saudis and Egyptians, being in the American camp, would be less likely to undertake a nuclear program.

Syria could be a different case. It was anti-American, making overtures to Iran, and supporting Hezbollah in Lebanon more than ever. The then-new Syrian dictator, Bashar Assad, was inexperienced, and might miscalculate, in his ambition to outdo his late father, Hafez.

The more Mossad researchers dug, the more they found, until they unearthed evidence that was alarming. They noticed that Syria, at the start of the 21st century, had had clandestine contacts with North Korea that were difficult to explain. This realization took place three years after they start of those contacts, and the Mossad would later be irritated by accusations that it had been deaf and blind for seven years. It was really "only" three years.

These contacts were not about the already-known cooperation in the field of Scud missiles. There was something else going on, and it was secret, high level and troubling.

Dagan had his agency turn to the CIA and other friendly liaison links to ask whether they were aware of any nuclear contacts between North Korea and Syria. They all knew about missile sales and cooperation between Damascus and Pyongyang. Yet, neither the Americans nor the French (the latter having relatively good coverage of Syria due to their colonial past there ) knew a thing about nuclear links.

Israeli intelligence realized that it would have to rely on itself. That was a commonly held view in Israel on many topics, even when international cooperation seemed to be available. "It's part of their ethos," commented Dennis Ross, a longtime Middle East adviser to American presidents, "not to contract out their security."

Within the Israeli intelligence community, through most of 2007, there was an urgent sense of being faced with a new mystery in Syria. This was, therefore, no time to re-open the old Mossad-MI argument about who had missed Libya's weapons program. The divisions were healed. MI had Unit 8200 improve its eavesdropping on Syrian communications and signals. Israeli satellites, first launched in 1988, were reoriented so that their orbits would put them over Syria more often. The Mossad's agent-running department, Tzomet, was instructed to do all it could to penetrate Syria's leadership and to uncover Damascus' mysterious, unresolved contacts with North Korea.

This substantial extra work for Israeli intelligence required additional budgetary resources. Dagan turned to Prime Minister Olmert to ask for more money and found, in Olmert, an ally. "Whatever you need," was the response, "you'll get it."

With the increased funding, Israel's air force now was able to do a lot more high-altitude reconnaissance flights. Intelligence analysts were working much longer hours, poring over photos taken by Israeli satellites.

Some of the information was from signals intelligence sources - intercepted communications. But that was far from easy to acquire. It seemed that only a very few Syrians knew what was going on. Israeli intelligence tried to listen in on all their conversations, including those of President Assad and his close adviser and coordinator of covert projects, Brig. Gen. Mohammed Suleiman.

The combined espionage effort was zeroing in on several places and projects deemed highly suspicious. The first breakthrough came in the form of a building, seen in reconnaissance photos: 40 meters square, and about 21 meters tall, situated within a military complex in the desert in northeastern Syria, not far from the Euphrates river. The Syrians tried to block aerial views of whatever was being built by assembling a large roof over the scene. That indicated that something was being constructed, and in a big way, but Israeli agencies could not tell what was inside.

The next, crucial step would involve risking the lives of Israelis: sending operatives into Syria to get close, to see what the Syrians were building. For a variety of operational reasons, a decision was made to send combatants of the Mossad's Kidon unit - who excelled at sensitive, dangerous surveillance, as well as assassinations - in addition to an army special forces unit.

They sampled the soil, water and vegetation around the site, but did not find any traces of radioactive materials. Yet, other evidence they carried back to Israel did lead to pieces of the puzzle falling into place. The solution to the mystery began to reveal itself. It truly was a nuclear project.

Centrifuges, or a reactor?

The teams returned there on several further reconnaissance missions and obtained, every time, additional information. It became clear that North Korean experts were helping Syria build a nuclear facility. Unknown was whether it was a collection of centrifuges, which would take a long time to enrich uranium for bombs, or a nuclear reactor, which could, alarmingly, provide plutonium for bombs more quickly. And how close to completion was the project?

The answer would have significance. Depending on what they learned, Israeli leaders might feel they would have to bomb the building urgently, or they might decide they had time to wait and see.

All these dilemmas were resolved in March of 2007, when the most important and incriminating information was gathered. This was information that can be compared to a "smoking gun." It surfaced as a result of a grave mistake in data protection on the part of someone at the Syrian Atomic Energy Commission, who flew from Damascus to a meeting in a European capital and took along with him various documents on a portable computer.

People in the Mossad operations units Caesarea and Neviot infiltrated his room and copied the documentation. It emerged that this was a treasure house of information. Moreover, the Syrian scientists had also taken along photographs of the suspicious building. These clearly testified that the structure was not an installation for enriching uranium but rather a nuclear reactor.

There was now strong pictorial evidence that Syria was building a graphite reactor of the Yongbyon type, which had been used by North Korea to make its own nuclear bombs. Israel understood that the communist pariah state, always desperate for hard currency, sold its technology for the money. Even more important and troubling was Israel's assessment that the reactor could be ready to "go hot" within a few months, after which it would take a little over a year to produce enough plutonium for a nuclear bomb.

One more piece of evidence was troubling. Large pipes and a pumping station, for cooling the reactor with water from the Euphrates, seemed to be complete, and ready for use.

An additional item of data would contribute to Israel's decision-making process. The Mossad concluded that Iran had no role whatsoever in the construction of the reactor. Despite a growing friendship between Syria and Iran, the Iranians were not privy to the secret. An alliance between nations, however close, is still restrained by a large degree of compartmentalization.

That was the cumulative information about Syria that Dagan and his chief intelligence officer were bringing to Tel Aviv for their briefing with Olmert - a meeting that concluded with a consensus that the building would have to be flattened.

Waters of the Potomac

Faced with a huge decision, any Israeli prime minister, early on, tests the waters of the Potomac to hear what the American administration has to say. Olmert dispatched Dagan, whose main question to the Pentagon and the CIA was: Do you guys know about this? They did not.

Olmert, on a visit to Washington in June 2007, addressed President Bush face to face: "George, I am asking you to bomb the compound."

Bush decided, however, that bombing Syria without obvious provocation would cause "severe blowback." The prime minister concluded that, if action were needed, Israel would have to do it alone. Olmert found himself suddenly in the same position that Menachem Begin had been in in 1981 [when he was faced with Iraq's construction of a nuclear reactor outside Baghdad]. He now had to decide whether he would carry on with the "Begin Doctrine" - that no enemy of Israel would be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

Consulting with very few advisers, Olmert reached a decision that he would follow the Begin line.

Olmert slightly expanded the number of people who were involved in these discussions. Over a matter of weeks, he hosted five serious meetings of his inner cabinet - 14 people in all - with every minister encouraged to express his or her genuine views.

The ministers were helped to come to a conclusive decision by the knowledge that the Israeli intelligence community and the military, this time, spoke with one voice. Unlike the deliberations leading to the 1981 Osirak attack, all the intelligence agency chiefs, their deputies and their top analysts favored demolishing Syria's reactor project. These men included Dagan, MI chief Maj. Gen. Amos Yadlin, who was one of the pilots who struck Iraq in 1981, and the IDF chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi.

A strong consensus seemed to be emerging within the cabinet too. Ministers supported Olmert's position that - in the spirit of Begin - Syria would have to be stopped from acquiring nuclear weapons. But there was one very prominent exception.

To the astonishment of his colleagues, Ehud Barak, the defense minister, kept voicing strong objections. He did not say that he was, in principle, opposed to bombing Syria, but he suggested that Israel still had time, that there was no need to hurry.

The decisive factor regarding whether to bomb the reactor was the question of Syrian retaliation. Israeli intelligence knew that Syria's powerful missiles were always on standby, and, if an order were given, within about six hours they could hit any target that was chosen in Israel. Destinations were pre-set: from the Dimona reactor in the Negev, to the Kirya military headquarters in Tel Aviv, to the Knesset in Jerusalem, as well as air bases, power stations and other key facilities.

If Israel believed there was a likelihood of Syrian retaliation, then preparation of the home front would normally be necessary. That, however, would require mobilization of reservists and civil defense workers, which would be detected by the Syrians. That could lead to a miscalculation. Syria might even preemptively strike Israel, and an all-out war could result.

The decision required on the part of Olmert and his cabinet seemed momentous. Ministers considered the possibility of Israelis facing thousands of retaliatory missiles, flying in from Syria and from Hezbollah in Lebanon. Some might even carry chemical weapons.

Despite those dark thoughts, the inner cabinet voted, 13 to 1, for an attack. Even Barak voted yes. The only no came from the former Shin Bet director, Avi Dichter, now a cabinet minister from Olmert's Kadima party, who feared the bloody toll that might be inflicted on Israeli civilians by Syrian retaliation.

On the night of the attack, September 6, 2007, Olmert was in the bor (the Pit ), the IDF's situation room at the Kirya, flanked by a few assistants and military generals. Eight F-16s took off from a base in northern Israel, flying westward, northward, and then eastward into Syria. Unlike the "stupid" heavy bombs used in the Osirak attack 26 years earlier, this time Israel used "smart" weapons. Shortly after midnight, the pilots fired precision missiles from a safe distance. Within two minutes, the attack was over.

To keep the Israelis safe, their advanced electronics jammed and blinded Syria's air-defense system. So sophisticated was the electronic warfare that the Syrian radar seemed to be working just fine, even when it was not. Syria's defense personnel had no idea that their system, which detected absolutely nothing, was down.

The Israeli pilots adhered to radio silence and communicated with headquarters only after about 90 minutes. Olmert, other top politicians, and the officers were relieved and delighted to hear that the target was destroyed. Despite their calculation that Syria would not retaliate, they could not rule out the possibility. To minimize the chances of that, therefore, a firm decision was made to keep the entire affair secret. If President Assad was not publicly humiliated, he might well decide to say or do nothing. Indeed, Israel still has never publicly confirmed that it hit Syria that night.

A war of misinformation would follow. The Syrians apparently did not know what to make of Israel's silence. Fearing that Israel might announce it first and embarrass them, the Syrians declared they had repelled an Israeli air incursion. Later, they said that Israel had bombed a deserted military structure. They also pointed to the one mistake the Israeli air force made as evidence of the incident: One of the pilots, on the way home, released an auxiliary fuel tank from his F-16. The tank, which had Hebrew markings on it, was found in a field in Turkey. Deniability would now be more difficult.

After Syria's government started talking about an Israeli attack, word leaked from Israel that the target had been a nuclear facility. Syrian officials adamantly denied it. They refused, for months, to let the International Atomic Energy Agency visit the site; in the meantime, the Syrians cleared away all the rubble and replaced the soil. Finally, when international inspectors were allowed in, they detected a few traces of uranium. Syria claimed these were from uranium-tipped Israeli missiles.

The IAEA concluded that the structure, now gone, was a North Korea-type nuclear reactor. This finding was bolstered by a fairly complete report made public by the CIA. Intelligence agencies discovered that dozens of people had been killed within the building, both Syrians and North Koreans. North Korea, though, never said a word about it.

Israeli intelligence prepared dossiers to be sent to foreign government leaders and friendly intelligence agencies. But the closest cooperation was with the United States. Olmert spoke again with President Bush, and Dagan flew to Washington to give briefings - even meeting the president at the White House. Both sides seemed comfortable with the fact that Israel had not informed the Americans, in any detailed way, before the bombing raid. Deniability was preserved.

Intelligence professionals at the CIA and in the Pentagon praised Israel for having precise information and for being decisive and leak-proof.

While Israel proved to the Middle East that the Begin Doctrine was still in place, the mission was incomplete for Dagan and the Mossad.

On August 1, 2008, President Assad's close aide Mohammed Suleiman was felled by a single bullet. He was sitting on the terrace of his villa on the Syrian coastline, enjoying the Mediterranean breeze while entertaining guests for dinner. Apparently, no one noticed that an Israeli naval vessel was anchored offshore, with an expert sniper on deck. The ship was bobbing on the sea, of course. Yet one shot, at a great distance, did the job. The general was killed, but his guests were unharmed.

No less impressive was the precision of the information gathered about Suleiman's party: what time it would start, and where he would be sitting.

The mission, thus accomplished, was to send a message to his master, the Syrian president: Don't mess with us. Another objective was getting rid of a powerful official who was involved with Syria's very special relations with both Hezbollah and Iran.


Note the re release of this information is great way of making the Iranians quiver in their boots through Psyops

Also note there is nothing new in the report but its timing to boost the morale of Israelis that Iran is doable and the world to be assured that nothing to worry we can handle it.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 05 Sep 2012 20:19

It would be interesting to make a mind map of the Islamist countries and their interdependencies. Eg Oil wealth from KSA props up countries as far apart as Egypt and TSP

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 05 Sep 2012 21:33

shyamd wrote:Devesh, The bit I deleted was what I posted already: Gen Assef Shawkat and his wife were issued diplomatic visas by the UAE who offered Asad asylum.

It's irrelevant for you because you can't seem to comprehend what it means being integrated into a national infrastructure and command and control instead of loose rag tag rebels with guns calling themselves FSA.

Negotiations between the rebel groups to join and agree to the national charters, code of conduct etc.

This is stuff I've been talking about for some time and just adding on to my previous posts



actually, no, I've been following your posts on this thread for a while, and I haven't seen you talking anything like the above, other than say that some mysterious "source" said something that is equally cloaked in riddles. I checked out your posts over the last few pages, and there is simply no connection to your posts about "negotiations" for "integration" with Free Syrian National army. you posted that little one-liner out of nowhere, without any context, and without even fully stating what "negotiations" and with whom. perhaps I should have been clear as to what I meant; stop posting one-liners from your "sources" unless you are willing to elaborate at least basic info when you post.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 06 Sep 2012 01:51

You have the ability to ignore his posts.
Thanks, ramana

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 06 Sep 2012 08:50

^^^
really?! if a poster is nothing more than nuisance, then he/she is ignored. but if they post under the garb of "highly sensitive" information from "sources", and on top of that also insist on speaking in one-liner riddles about "negotiations" without any background either in that post or before about "who" and "what", then the recipients of this "source" based info -- members of the forum -- do have a right to ask for clarifications.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 06 Sep 2012 12:37

Pentaiah-> regarding the Article there seem to be facts mentioned with fiction.

1) Was there an Isareli raid in Northern Syria- yes
2) Did it go through Turkey- yes
3) Did the jets go thourogh -40KM of Syrian airspace and come out unarmed - Yes
4) Was a Syrian Facility attacked and damaged- Yes

Problem is with the following fiction

1) That soo many Syrian and North Koreans died and SYria Nuke programme which was ready to make a nuke in a few days was made redundeant- the lack of Syrian retaliation make this look unlikely, especially after Isarel 2006 campaign did not kill Nasarallah, Syria would have felt embolden to react.
2) Isareli technolgy so good that thier radar were working Just fine while the jets Bombed and went back, If that was true- Isareli Jets would not have gone through trukey and certainly not returned through Turkey, why come back thorugh SYria know. the Truth probably- SYria has most of its defenses near its main cities, given the public anti Isreal posture of Erdogan at that time and Gaza blockade issues, Syria would have least expected Turkish cooperation with Isreal.

Facts seem to suggest Isreal knocked out Syria's baby steps to making its nuke sometime in the future.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RamaY » 07 Sep 2012 07:23

I know this is Faux Newz talking but I wonder what the "source" would say....

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/03 ... z25SzyXssM

MANAMA, Bahrain –
Instead, the planned church -- intended to be the main center for Catholics in the region -- has turned into another point of tension in a country already being pulled apart by sectarian battles between its Sunni and Shiite Muslim communities.Hardline Sunni clerics have strongly opposed the construction of the church complex, in a rare open challenge of the country's Sunni king. More than 70 clerics signed a petition last week saying it was forbidden to build churches in the Arabian Peninsula, the birthplace of Islam.One prominent cleric, Sheik Adel Hassan al-Hamad, proclaimed in a sermon during Friday prayers last month, that there was no justification for building further churches in Bahrain, adding, "anyone who believes that a church is a true place of worship is someone who has broken in their faith in God."
[/quote]

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Mahendra » 07 Sep 2012 12:00

^
Please look at national interest only YamaR ji

Baharain and by extension GCC, the custodians of the holy oil wells are 'Good Al Q', going by what my sources tell me, they are friends of India and have sincere love and affection towards India and Indians( minus Kashmir and 27+ other states in India)

Assad, Iran etc are bad Al Q, they are finished because prince Orangutan( once killed, twice re-born) hates them, we are supposed to hate them too and hope that Turkey intervenes retrospectively

If the fight is between Iran and Israel, we are supposed to support Iran because Israel is 'finished'( again retrospectively since 2 years at least) Israel is 'finished' anyway because they have taken on the all powerful GCC, the sole creator of 'superpowers' just like they made a superpower out of USA.

,

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Surya » 07 Sep 2012 22:25

:rotfl:

am sure we could turn into an tale of the panchatantra or something :)

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 08 Sep 2012 01:37

There appears to be some competition for the mullahs in Christian bashing in the ME from this report.

But the most important issue they say Israel has failed to address is the practice of some ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools that teach children it is a doctrinal obligation to abuse anyone in Holy Orders they encounter in public.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews, including children as young as eight, spit at members of the clergy on a daily basis, Fr Pizzaballa said.

Earlier this year, Michael Ben Ari, an Israeli legislator, publicly ripped up a copy of the New Testament in the country's parliament, the Knesset, and threw it into a rubbish bin after denouncing it as an "abhorrent" book.

A second legislator called for Bibles to be burnt.

Although Mr Ben Ari was criticised by the Knesset's speaker, he faced no official sanction despite protests from the church.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... anity.html

Vatican official says Israel fostering intolerance of Christianity
The Israeli authorities are growing increasingly intolerant of Christianity in the country, responding inadequately to violent attacks against the faith by Jewish extremists, a senior Vatican official in Jerusalem has warned.

Trappist Monastery at Latroun, Israel where graffiti in Hebrew was spray painted early this morning and a wooden door set ablaze Photo: EPA
Adrian Blomfield

By Adrian Blomfield, Jerusalem 07 Sep 2012

Police inaction and an educational culture that encourages Jewish children to treat Christians with "contempt" has made life increasingly "intolerable" for many, Fr Pierbattista Pizzaballa, the Custodian of the Holy Land, said.

Fr Pizzaballa's intervention, unusually outspoken for a senior Catholic churchman, came after pro-settler extremists attacked a Trappist monastery in the town of Latroun.

The door of the monastery was set fire to and its walls were covered with anti-Christian graffiti that denounced Christ as a "monkey".

The incident is the latest in a series of acts of arson and vandalism this year targeting places of worship, including Jerusalem's 11th century Monastery of the Cross, built on the site where the tree used to make Christ's Cross is held to have been planted.

Slogans reading "Death to Christians" and other offensive graffiti were daubed on its walls.

Fr Pizzaballa, the head of the Franciscan Order in the Holy Land, and fellow senior clergymen of other denominations have protested the failure of the police to identify the culprits behind any of the incidents.

But the most important issue they say Israel has failed to address is the practice of some ultra-Orthodox Jewish schools that teach children it is a doctrinal obligation to abuse anyone in Holy Orders they encounter in public.

Ultra-Orthodox Jews, including children as young as eight, spit at members of the clergy on a daily basis, Fr Pizzaballa said.

Such a culture of intolerance has resulted in a "scapegoating" of Christians, leading to them becoming the convenient target of extremists fighting political battles that have nothing to do with the community.

"Sadly, what happened in Latroun is only another in a long series of attacks against Christians and their places of worship," Christian leaders, including Fr Pizzaballa, said in a statement this week.

"Those who sprayed their hateful slogans expressed their anger at the dismantlement of the illegal Jewish settlements in the West Bank. But why do they vent this anger against Christians and Christian places of worship?

"What kind of 'teaching of contempt' for Christians is being communicated in their schools and in their homes? The time has come for the authorities to act to put an end to this senseless violence and to ensure a 'teaching of respect' in schools for all those who call this land home."

After years of silence by the Church, Fr Pizzaballa, who is charged by the Vatican with responsibility for all Christian sites in the Holy Land, has taken the lead in demanding protection for the faith. Earlier this year he wrote to Shimon Peres, the Israeli president, urging him to take action.

Although the Israeli government has strongly condemned attacks on Christians, Fr Pizzaballa criticised the authorities for not taking the plight of the community seriously enough.

In an unusually outspoken interview with Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper, he denounced the failure of the political system to address blatantly anti-Christian acts, particularly those carried out by prominent radical politicians.

Earlier this year, Michael Ben Ari, an Israeli legislator, publicly ripped up a copy of the New Testament in the country's parliament, the Knesset, and threw it into a rubbish bin after denouncing it as an "abhorrent" book.

A second legislator called for Bibles to be burnt.

Although Mr Ben Ari was criticised by the Knesset's speaker, he faced no official sanction despite protests from the church.

"Such a serious thing occurs and no one does anything," Fr Pizzaballa said.

"In practice, it negates our existence here."

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby eklavya » 08 Sep 2012 02:54

shyamd wrote:@BreakingNews: China backs Syria 'political transition' to end worsening bloodshed after 18 months of unrest, Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi says - @Reuters

Just to confirm that Moscow is the last capital to back Asad


You gave us only half the news, which in a way is breaking it .. and dishing out the convenient half.

The reuters headline says:

China, U.S. divided over Syria, sea dispute, but vow goodwill

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/ ... CI20120905

China backs a "political transition" in Syria to end worsening bloodshed after 18 months of unrest, Foreign Minister Yang said while repeating Beijing's opposition to forceful foreign intervention in the crisis.

Clinton said it was "no secret" the U.S. government was disappointed by the positions of China and Russia on Syria, and she reiterated that the best course of action remained tough U.N. Security Council action.

Yang also said his government opposed the efforts of any country, including Iran, to develop nuclear weapons. Tehran denies having such ambitions.


In other words, China will veto any Security Council resolution that may be used as cover for armed foreign intervention in Syria.

shyamd, I really don't understand how you can read the story above and "confirm" :?: that Syria no longer has Beijing's support?

You think Beijing will not stand in the way of a security council resolution authorising regime change that the US is so obviously seeking? Then, why is Mrs Clinton "disappointed" :?:

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 09 Sep 2012 00:53

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9106062378

Former French Spy: Western Spying Agencies Smuggling Weapons into Syria

TEHRAN (FNA)- Claude Moniquet, a former member of the French intelligence service, disclosed the main role of the western countries' intelligence services in arming terrorist groups in Syria, and said that the CIA, MI6 and French intelligence service have been involved in arms smuggling into Syria.

In an interview with Russia Today news channel, the founder of the European Intelligence and Security Center, a Brussels-based think tank specializing on terrorism and security issues, said that the world's great powers prefer to interfere in the Syrian crisis through espionage than military invasion because they can later easily deny the identity of the spies they have sent to Syria.

"You can deny. You can deny. When you send the intelligence people, even if they're killed, you can say that 'I do not know him, maybe he is a journalist. I do not know. I'm not involved.' The main prospect of the use of secret service and the secret agents is the possibility of denial - 'Oh, I do not know him.' When you are caught using guns, tanks, planes, you can't say 'Oops, it is not my plane," the former French spymaster said.

Asked if he can confirm the smuggling of weapons into Syria as well as the presence of the some of the foreign secret service in the country, Moniquet said "Qatar and Saudi Arabia are sending weapons for the rebels (in Syria) - it's clear, I think. Everyone knows it".

"And some intelligence services, for instance probably the British MI6, maybe the French, maybe the Americans, are involved on one level or another level in support of the opposition," he added.

He further pointed to Lebanon in 1980s when 242 American marines and 62 French paratroopers lost their lives in an attack on their base, and said that it was not such a nice experience for us and I do not know if we want to have such experience again.

Claude Moniquet who spent a lot of time in North Africa and the Middle East as a French spy warned about the dangers of military invasion in Middle East region, including Syria, and said that It is a savage war and after this war whoever will be the winner, you will have terrible sentiments of killing, revenge killing and so forth and we do not want to be involved there.

Syria has been experiencing unrest since March 2011 with organized attacks by well-armed gangs against Syrian police forces and border guards being reported across the country.

In October, calm was eventually restored in the Arab state after President Assad started a reform initiative in the country, but Israel, the US and its Arab allies are seeking hard to bring the country into chaos through any possible means. Tel Aviv, Washington and some Arab capitals have been staging various plots in the hope of stirring unrests in Syria once again.

The US and its western and regional allies have long sought to topple Bashar al-Assad and his ruling system. Media reports said that the Syrian rebels and terrorist groups have received significantly more and better weapons in recent weeks, a crime paid for by the Persian Gulf Arab states and coordinated by the United States.


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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 10 Sep 2012 23:01

devesh wrote:
actually, no, I've been following your posts on this thread for a while, and I haven't seen you talking anything like the above, other than say that some mysterious "source" said something that is equally cloaked in riddles. I checked out your posts over the last few pages, and there is simply no connection to your posts about "negotiations" for "integration" with Free Syrian National army. you posted that little one-liner out of nowhere, without any context, and without even fully stating what "negotiations" and with whom. perhaps I should have been clear as to what I meant; stop posting one-liners from your "sources" unless you are willing to elaborate at least basic info when you post.


Okay so lets see what I have posted on this subject:

7th August 2012
shyamd wrote:The low down is Hillary is in town next week to check on progress. So there is a sudden effort now by turkey to sort things out. They are losing the will of the west with systematic killings and breaking human rights. So They have decided to integrate all the smaller units into national units and give them training on geneva convention etc.

More as and when time permits

Command and control and integration of non FSA groups into FSA going to take place. Tlass will attend the meetings.

SAMs will be provided by Libya. A unit has undergone training and is ready. So they have paralysed the ground forces via IEDs and anti tank weapons. Now war is moving to the air.

Name change from FSA to National Syrian free army


There are more posts on the subject. :lol: So stop chatting sh*t

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 10 Sep 2012 23:03

eklavya wrote:You gave us only half the news, which in a way is breaking it .. and dishing out the convenient half.

The reuters headline says:

China, U.S. divided over Syria, sea dispute, but vow goodwill

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/ ... CI20120905

China backs a "political transition" in Syria to end worsening bloodshed after 18 months of unrest, Foreign Minister Yang said while repeating Beijing's opposition to forceful foreign intervention in the crisis.

Clinton said it was "no secret" the U.S. government was disappointed by the positions of China and Russia on Syria, and she reiterated that the best course of action remained tough U.N. Security Council action.

Yang also said his government opposed the efforts of any country, including Iran, to develop nuclear weapons. Tehran denies having such ambitions.


In other words, China will veto any Security Council resolution that may be used as cover for armed foreign intervention in Syria.

shyamd, I really don't understand how you can read the story above and "confirm" :?: that Syria no longer has Beijing's support?

You think Beijing will not stand in the way of a security council resolution authorising regime change that the US is so obviously seeking? Then, why is Mrs Clinton "disappointed" :?:

They no longer back Asad by asking for transition and they are against armed intervention - just a slight climb down from the position and face saving to an extent. Sort of middle ground for public consumption.

wait for after US elections.

Let see what happens.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 10 Sep 2012 23:05

Oh Assad now has to wait until Obama gets re-elected to hang?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 10 Sep 2012 23:08

What happened to the imminent fall of Assad gov, with increasing defections and heavy weapons soon wiping out Assads AF off Syrian skies? When is the date scheduled for Assad's wife and children to defect?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby eklavya » 10 Sep 2012 23:34

shyamd wrote:They no longer back Asad by asking for transition ..


The Chinese will veto anything in the Security Council that remotely authorises Western intervention or regime change in Syria. End of argument.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby nakul » 10 Sep 2012 23:38

Don't expect too much shock & awe from Ombaba before elections. He has speaken out against putting American lives before and he won't be risking his re election chances anytime soon. So its more likely to continue in the same mode. Hillary madam has not received positive replies from China & Russia with Lavrov publicly disagreeing. Syria is a bit too much to stomach for the American public (CNN & Fox withstanding)

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 10 Sep 2012 23:41

eklavya wrote:
shyamd wrote:They no longer back Asad by asking for transition ..


The Chinese will veto anything in the Security Council that remotely authorises Western intervention or regime change in Syria. End of argument.

Wait and see...

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby paramu » 11 Sep 2012 00:12

History of China vetoing unkil in UN is very poor, except those related to Taiwan.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 11 Sep 2012 00:14

France 'may send anti-aircraft guns to Syrian rebels'
France may seek to break the increasingly bloody stalemate in Syria by providing rebel forces with artillery and anti-aircraft guns, it has been claimed.
France 'may send anti-aircraft guns to Syrian rebels'
France's government senses an opportunity for the West to give the rebels military assistance for the first time Photo: Youssef Boudlal/REUTERS
Adrian Blomfield

By Adrian Blomfield, Middle East Correspondent

6:34PM BST 06 Sep 2012

With opposition forces consolidating their hold over enclaves in the country captured from the regime, Francois Hollande's government senses an opportunity for the West to give the rebels military assistance for the first time, a diplomat has said.

Until now Western powers have insisted on giving rebel fighters only "non-lethal" aid, fearing that the armed opposition's chaotic and fractured organisational structure could allow weapons to fall into the hands of radical Islamist groups.

While acknowledging that arming the rebels remains potentially hazardous, France is impressed with the way the opposition is administering towns under its control after it set up local revolutionary councils to impose law and order.

"It's a subject that we are working on seriously, but which has serious and complicated implications," the diplomatic source told the Reuters news agency in Paris. "We aren't neglecting it."

France, which governed Syria under a League of Nations mandate after the First World War, has taken an increasingly assertive role in international policy towards the Levantine state.
Last week it started providing direct financial aid to five rebel-held cities in Syria, providing money to be used for restoring water supplies, bakeries and schools in an effort to restore a veneer of normality.

But with President Bashar al-Assad stepping up his ever bloodier onslaught against opposition-held areas, rebels have appealed for arms to counter the regime's air power.

Rebel fighters have succeeded in bringing down a government helicopter and fighter-jet in recent weeks, but in both cases did so through luck. Being able to counter Mr Assad's air force could turn the tide of Syria's civil war, which has claimed as many as 26,000 lives, according to opposition activists.

France may break with Western policy by providing Syria's rebels with artillery and anti-aircraft guns, a diplomat has said.

France is seeking to identify trustworthy rebel commanders controlling "liberated" territory in the provinces of Deir al-Zor, Aleppo and Idlib, the diplomat said.

"We need to work seriously, build a relationship of trust to see who is who so that an eventual decision can be taken," he said. "It takes time." Rebel fighters meanwhile suffered a blow in their campaign to extend gains along Syria's frontiers after government forces recaptured a town along the Jordanian border that has become a major crossing point for refugees.

Hundreds of soldiers, supported by at least 20 fighters, seized Tel Chehab, forcing rebel fighters to flee, activists said.

Jordan is already providing sanctuary to 185,000 Syrian refugees and its prime minister, Fayez Tarawaneh, yesterday said that the country was struggling to cope.

"The numbers are becoming beyond our capabilities, beyond our expectations and we expect more as things deteriorate in Syria," he said.


Syria defector Manaf Tlas hints at French intelligence aid
Syrian defector Gen Manaf Tlas speaks to BBC Arabic and French news channel BFMTV Gen Tlas said he defected because of the Syrian regime's "lies"

Syria conflict

Key Syrian defector Gen Manaf Tlas has hinted that French secret agents helped him flee Syria in early July.

He said French "services" had helped him escape but refused to be drawn on how, only thanking the French government.


He said he could not reveal more for fear that he could endanger those who had helped him.

Gen Tlas was speaking from his refuge in Paris to interviewers from BBC Arabic and French news channel BFMTV.

Gen Tlas's defection was seen as a major blow to the Damascus government.

Not only did he command the elite 10th Brigade of the Republican Guard, but his father Mustafa Tlas served as defence minister for 30 years and was a confidant of Hafez al-Assad, the president's father and predecessor.

Gen Tlas has been touted as a potential figurehead for the opposition but many reject him as too deeply compromised, reports the BBC's Arab affairs editor Sebastian Usher.
No 'foreign intervention'

Gen Tlas told BFMTV and BBC Arabic that Syria was at a "dangerous crossroads" and he urged the international community to "focus all its efforts to draft a real roadmap to get Syria out of this crisis".

But he said he was "of course against foreign intervention of any shape or form in Syria", saying the Syrian people had to "achieve their own victory" and the international community could only help by "putting a new strategy for the revolution".

The question of foreign intervention has divided the UN over Syria, with Russia and China refusing to back UN sanctions against their ally.

As well as French groups, Gen Tlas said the Free Syrian Army had helped in his escape "from a distance".

He suggested that his "defection" from the government had begun long before he physically fled his country when he withdrew to his office, alienated by the authorities' violent response to protests.

"On the third month of the revolution I defected from the regime," he said.

"I met demonstrators and rebels, listened to their demands and felt that the regime is not willing to change.

"I felt that the regime was lying to the rebels and was searching for shortcuts. I withdrew to my office, did not listen to anyone and decided to defect and help the rebels."
Conference proposal

Gen Tlas said many of the rebels he had met had been "imprisoned, murdered or tortured as a result of making real humanitarian demands".

But he said the "revolution" had been "transformed into a conspiracy which the government exploited".

"But no! The revolution is real!" he said.

Gen Tlas also warned that the Syrian government would not hesitate to use chemical weapons if it felt it had to.

He urged his former friend, President Bashar al-Assad, to give up power not just for Syria's sake, but for that of his family.

On Monday, it emerged that Russia was proposing organising a conference bringing together "all the players" of the deadly Syria conflict, including opposition groups, ordinary citizens and the ruling regime.

In an interview scheduled to be published by leading French daily Le Figaro on Wednesday, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Mikhail Bogdanov reportedly said the conference would be organised along the lines of the Taif conference that ended Lebanon's civil war in 1990.


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