West Asia News and Discussions

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devesh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 11 Sep 2012 00:20

brihaspati ji,

in the last week or so, the subtle posturing in the media has changed significantly in a manner that is not so subtle. I am seeing news reports where they talk about "foreign Jihadis" not as "regime propaganda" but as "eye witness reports". I already posted one such article on the Syrian Resistance thread. in the last 2 days, at least 3 such articles have popped up.

also, no longer do they try to whitewash or subtly cover up the rebel losses. now, they quite openly say that rebels took a beating in this city or that. once again, in last 3-4 days, I've ready at least 8 different reports from Western "reputable sources" of Assad's forces taking back several refugee camps, kicking out the rebels from the "largest Syrian army post" in Aleppo, destroying rebel strongholds in Damascus, blocking of escape routes into Turkey, and several others in similar vein. There has been a very noticeable shift in Western media away from the "faith" in rebels to "rebels getting sh** kicked out of them", to put it bluntly.

devesh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 11 Sep 2012 00:29

apparently, the French aid was for "civic groups". France has a long history in that region, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "aid", even if going to the "opposition civic groups", might be for an entirely different purpose than that construed through a cursory glance. often times, a favorite tactic is to use "aid" in apparent display of help against "regime", but it could in fact be underhanded negotiations and give-and-take which promises the "foreigns" a presence in the erstwhile "rebel" camp if they were to change course and go the regime way, thereby guarantying "eyes and ears" in the current regime in a future setup. in short, it could be more of a maneuvering to preserve the current regime in some form, than to truly "aid" in toppling it.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 11 Sep 2012 00:59

http://www.voanews.com/content/new-syri ... 04764.html

UN Chief Slams Syrian Government, Rebels


U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has condemned the Syrian government and rebel groups for choosing violence and force rather than dialogue. In an opening speech to a three-week session of the U.N. Human Rights Council, Ban also rebuked the U.N. Security Council for failing to take a unified stance to end the Syrian crisis.




yup...the UN Head just did an == between Assad and the Rebels. this kind of think doesn't happen nonchalantly. if the UN Chief chooses to equate the darling Rebels with Assad, it is with intention and meaning.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby nakul » 11 Sep 2012 01:07

I don't really take the UN head seriously. Members of the UN appoint the UN Head. They only support those who would push their agenda. So no surprises on his sayings that everyone should stop fighting. He knows that it all hot air. No one is going to listen to him.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 11 Sep 2012 01:09

India, Saudi Arabia to enhance military exchanges
India and Saudi Arabia today decided to enhance their military exchanges at the first meeting of their joint committee on defence cooperation here.

The 11-member Saudi delegation was headed by Maj Gen Suleiman Saleh Al-Khalifa, Chief of the Armed Forces Operations of Saudi Arabia while the Indian side was represented by a Joint Secretary-level officer, a Defence Ministry release said.


The decision to establish a Joint Committee was taken during the visit of Defence Minister A K Antony with the Saudi Defence Minister Prince Salman bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud in February.

The Joint Committee was mandated to formulate a programme to develop areas of cooperation between the defence establishments of both countries, the release said.

"Proposals for exchange of high level visits, training exchanges and functional exchanges in various areas were discussed and will be finalised over the coming weeks," it said.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 11 Sep 2012 01:18

nakul wrote:I don't really take the UN head seriously. Members of the UN appoint the UN Head. They only support those who would push their agenda. So no surprises on his sayings that everyone should stop fighting. He knows that it all hot air. No one is going to listen to him.



the very fact that he is a "puppet" should indicate the direction of the wind. no matter their "real power", when these guys come out to talk, they measure it carefully against the "inputs" they receive from the "controllers". they don't mouth off whatever they feel like. if the UN Chief decides to essentially do an == between Assad and Rebels for the entire global audience, it is not without the appropriate "indications" which pointed him in that direction.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby nakul » 11 Sep 2012 01:21

The level of detail about the strategic relationships between India & Middle East countries is quite scarce. Here is a pdf which gives a little peek

http://www.securitychallenges.org.au/Ar ... ewster.pdf

Some quotes from the section titled "Northwest Indian Ocean"

Despite these constraints, India is developing security relations in the region, particularly with Qatar (which sits inside the Persian Gulf), and Oman (which sits on the Strait of Hormuz at the head of the Persian Gulf).


Since 2003, India has entered into several defence agreements with Oman dealing with training, maritime security cooperation and joint exercises.


n 2008 India also entered into a security agreement with Qatar which, according to some reports, includes Indian security guarantees. The agreement, which was reportedly entered following “persistent” efforts of Qatar, deals among other things with maritime security and intelligence sharing. One Indian official commented that, “The agreement is just short of stationing troops (in the region)”, while another was reported as commenting that “We will go to the rescue of Qatar if Qatar requires it, in whatever form it takes.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby nakul » 11 Sep 2012 01:23

devesh wrote:the very fact that he is a "puppet" should indicate the direction of the wind. no matter their "real power", when these guys come out to talk, they measure it carefully against the "inputs" they receive from the "controllers". they don't mouth off whatever they feel like. if the UN Chief decides to essentially do an == between Assad and Rebels for the entire global audience, it is not without the appropriate "indications" which pointed him in that direction.


I was just saying that if I wanted any real news, I would listen to Hillary madam on CNN. She has more direct line with the president and unlike the UN, does not have to act neutral and balanced.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby eklavya » 11 Sep 2012 01:52

shyamd wrote:Wait and see...


You quoted a news story to claim that China had changed its stance. Your post was misleading, as the news story reported nothing of the sort. Now that your bluff has been called, you are pretending to have some insider knowledge, when in reality you are spreading disinformation.

These are the facts as they stand, as stated by the US ambassador to the UN:

Friction at the U.N. as Russia and China Veto Another Resolution on Syria Sanctions

Susan E. Rice, the American ambassador, also angrily denounced the vetoes. “We have missed yet another critical opportunity to work together,” she told the Council. Ms. Rice called it a “dark day.”

Asked later what the vote signified, Ms. Rice said, “The message it sends is that two permanent members of the Council are prepared to defend Assad to the bitter end.”

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 11 Sep 2012 02:10

^^ Wait and see. I stand by what I said and I haven't changed. Just a year ago, Syria was being called a "storm in a tea cup" by worthies, press was saying there is no weapons just earlier this year while I consistently said they are getting in and of course things changed and weapons attacks were magically happening all over the country. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else to prove - I tell you what I hear - its your choice if you want to take it on board,if you don't believe it, its your choice.

Beijing no longer back him. Political transition means asking Asad to leave but they don't want external intervention - Middle ground.

China supports 'transition' in Syria

(AFP) – 5 days ago

BEIJING — China said Wednesday it supported a political transition in Syria and was not attached to President Bashar al-Assad as it defended its record during a visit by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Clinton, meeting in Beijing with the country's top leadership, reiterated she was "disappointed" by the vetoes of China and Russia of UN resolutions that would have threatened action against Assad to end the spiraling bloodshed.

But Chinese officials continued to warn against an "outside formula" to end the armed conflict.

Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi called for all sides to end fighting, telling a joint news conference with Clinton: "Let me emphasise that China is not partial to any individual or any party."

Yang called on all nations to exert "a positive influence" to persuade the sides in Syria "to adopt a realistic, calm and constructive attitude so that there can be an early beginning of political dialogue and transition".


But he warned against the use of outside force to end the conflict that activists say has killed more than 26,000 people -- a sensitive notion for one-party China.

"I think history will judge that China's position on the Syrian question is promotion of the appropriate handling and resolution of the Syrian issue," he said.

Foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei, speaking after Yang's remarks, reiterated that China is opposed to intervention in Syria.

"We believe that the imposition of an outside formula on Syria is counter-productive," he said at a regular press briefing in Beijing.

"We oppose any acts of armed intervention in Syria and we also oppose outside sanctions against Syria since they will only escalate tensions."

The spokesman also said that the future of Syria should be "decided by its own people" and that the "sovereignty, political integrity and independence of Syria should be respected".

"We hope that all parties in Syria will stop the violence and end the killing of innocent civilians and serve to end the bloodshed," Hong Lei added.

China has repeatedly called for political dialogue and efforts by the United Nations to resolve the crisis in Syria.

Beijing has also joined Russia to repeatedly use their vetoes to scuttle UN Security Council resolutions aimed at tackling the deadly conflict, putting them at odds with fellow permanent members like the US.

Clinton urged further action on Syria, saying: "The longer the conflict goes on, the greater the risk that it spills over borders and destabilises neighbouring countries.

"The best course of action remains to unite the Security Council behind real consequences if President Assad continues to brutalise his own people and threaten the security of the region."

While China has regularly voiced its opposition to using outside intervention, Russia is the primary supporter of Assad and has come under US criticism for supplying arms as he puts down the biggest threat to his family's four-decade grip on power.

Clinton is expected to meet this weekend with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov during an Asia-Pacific summit in Vladivostok.
Last edited by shyamd on 11 Sep 2012 02:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby eklavya » 11 Sep 2012 02:12

shyamd wrote:India, Saudi Arabia to enhance military exchanges
India and Saudi Arabia today decided to enhance their military exchanges at the first meeting of their joint committee on defence cooperation here.

The 11-member Saudi delegation was headed by Maj Gen Suleiman Saleh Al-Khalifa, Chief of the Armed Forces Operations of Saudi Arabia while the Indian side was represented by a Joint Secretary-level officer, a Defence Ministry release said.


The decision to establish a Joint Committee was taken during the visit of Defence Minister A K Antony with the Saudi Defence Minister Prince Salman bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud in February.

The Joint Committee was mandated to formulate a programme to develop areas of cooperation between the defence establishments of both countries, the release said.

"Proposals for exchange of high level visits, training exchanges and functional exchanges in various areas were discussed and will be finalised over the coming weeks," it said.


India should conduct Joint Operations with KSA troops in J&K. Some pig hunting in summer, and a winter deployment to Siachen.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 11 Sep 2012 03:44

paramu wrote:History of China vetoing unkil in UN is very poor, except those related to Taiwan.


Has the UN laws changed recently to have veto by majority voting a veto? Any one of Russia or China's veto should do. These two are coordinating a lot recently.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 11 Sep 2012 05:18

Standard NATO psyops prior to intervention. Intervention is already unprecidented. More likely than before but still unlikely without Ombaba's nod.
From France, an urge to intervene in Syria
By Edward Cody, Published: September 10

PARIS — Although pressure is rising in France and other European nations for military intervention to stop the bloodshed in Syria, leaders are stymied by an unpleasant reality: Lessons learned from last year’s NATO operation in Libya suggest that taking down President Bashar al-Assad would be impossible without large-scale involvement by the United States.

The urge to do something is particularly strong in France, which has historical ties to Syria and whose then-President Nicolas Sarkozy rallied the United States and other allies around his proposal to bomb government forces in Libya. Moreover, France is the country where the idea of a “right to intervene” to save lives abroad was born, and where it has since expanded in the eyes of many into a “duty to intervene.”

Frustrated by Russian and Chinese vetoes in the U.N. Security Council and President Obama’s reluctance to commit U.S. forces, some French opinion leaders have criticized President Francois Hollande for failing to organize an international intervention even without a Security Council mandate. The implication of their challenge is that a resolute France could persuade Obama to change his mind or that a French-led European coalition could act with neighboring Turkey.

Sarkozy’s one public gesture since his defeat at the polls in May, for instance, was to accuse Hollande of vacationing at the beach while Syrian rebels die at the hands of Assad’s army. Sarkozy’s followers swiftly joined in, eager to portray Hollande as inexperienced in foreign affairs and unable to show leadership.

Bernard Henri-Levy, the philosopher and commentator who promoted Libya’s opposition leaders with Sarkozy and the public last year, said recently he also is disappointed with Hollande for his failure to intervene militarily and suggested that he and other European leaders are overestimating the obstacles to overthrowing Assad.

“Everybody knows that not a lot is necessary anymore to finish off the government,” Henri-Levy said in a newspaper interview, suggesting that the Turkish air force might be sufficient. “We just need a pilot in the plane.”

Eager to demonstrate initiative in the face of such criticism, Hollande announced recently that if Syria’s disparate rebel groups would come together around a government in exile, France would recognize it immediately. Similar support from Sarkozy last year helped the Libyan rebel movement come together against Moammar Gaddafi. But France and a half-dozen other nations have been trying without success to prod Syrian rebel groups into a unified command for months.

The French Foreign Ministry revealed last week that France is providing humanitarian aid directly to rebel-controlled towns inside Syria. According to reports in Paris, France also has provided training and non-lethal military equipment such as night-vision goggles.

Although dismissed by specialists, Henri-Levy’s exhortations fell into a generally receptive audience because the Libyan intervention is viewed here as a proud success for France and its military. Not only did Sarkozy rally others in Paris to start the operation but not a single French pilot was lost, even though French aircraft flew about 25 percent of the strike missions during seven months of bombing against 7,600 targets.

NATO’s “lessons learned” studies after the Libya intervention paint a different picture. They show that last year’s casualty-free war was possible largely because the United States destroyed Libya’s air defense system and disrupted its command-and-control network with an opening salvo of sea- and air-launched cruise missiles and guided bombs that no European country, or combination of countries, could have mustered.

“The French and British simply would not have had the means to do that,” said a senior NATO officer who helped direct the Libya war. “The U.S. is really the only one with that kind of counter-air-
defense capability.”


Despite the public pressure, French military specialists recognize how the Libya war was conducted and what it says about the possibility of a similar intervention in Syria.

Suggestions from the refugee-burdened Turkish government and others in Europe that a humanitarian no-fly zone could be set up near the Turkish border do not make military sense, military specialists said. This is because Syria’s Russian-supplied integrated air defense network would have to be taken out — from the border south to Damascus and beyond — to make defending such a zone with allied air patrols possible, he said.

Syria’s shooting down of a Turkish F4 Phantom on a border-skirting reconnaissance patrol in June showed that Assad’s air defenses are already on alert, the NATO officer pointed out, speaking on the condition of anonymity to enable a frank discussion.

If the mission were limited to protecting a narrow humanitarian corridor along the border — and not removing Assad — this could be done by positioning antiaircraft missiles on the Turkish side of the line and warning Syrian planes against violating a no-fly zone, said Francois Heisbourg, a military expert at the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris. But it would be unwise to try anything like that without a U.N. mandate, he added, because it would be an act of war with hard-to-control consequences and would set a dangerous precedent.

The pressure for action has been particularly oriented toward humanitarian concerns such as a border safe zone because the “right to intervene” remains vivid in the French public’s mind. The concept was pushed onto the international scene in the 1980s by Bernard Kouchner, who had helped start Doctors Without Borders a decade earlier and, as “the French doctor,” stirred worldwide concern over Vietnamese boat people after the fall of Saigon. He was foreign minister in the early Sarkozy years.

In any case, after-action studies show that, even after NATO assumed command of the Libya bombing, the United States remained the only country with sufficient intelligence-gathering drones to permit NATO officers at their Naples headquarters to get a picture of the battlefield, and the only country with enough aerial refueling tankers to keep NATO aircraft in the air. The United States flew about 80 percent of aerial refueling flights over seven months of bombing, the studies found.

The U.S. Predator drones were particularly important in the Libya operation because NATO target planners were ordered to avoid civilian casualties. Although several mistaken attacks occurred, killing civilians, the officer said, two-thirds of the objectives singled out for bombing by targeting specialists were turned down because of a danger that civilians might be hurt.

A Syria intervention would be staggeringly more difficult because the country is not clearly divided into areas controlled by the army and others controlled by the rebels.

Moreover, Syrian rebels fighting inside the country are divided into multiple groups, some geographical and others with an Islamist agenda hostile to the West.making it difficult to coordinate to avoid friendly-fire incidents.

The Syrian military also is substantially more formidable than Libya’s, the officer said, with a trained officer corps that Gaddafi lacked and more than 300,000 regulars, 5,000 tanks and 500 warplanes.Finally, he said, in the Libya operation NATO forces benefited from the most powerful weapon of all: “There was a lot of luck involved.”

© The Washington Post Company


After Merkel aunty's direct phone call to bibi, it is the turn of Mr Cameron...
In secret visit to Israel, U.K. officials warn Netanyahu against unilateral attack on Iran
A high-ranking visitor delivered a stern message from British PM David Cameron against an uncoordinated Israeli strike on Iran at this time.
A special envoy from the British government came to Israel about two
weeks ago on a secret visit for talks with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
and Defense Minister Ehud Barak.

According to an Israeli source who asked to remain anonymous due to the sensitivity of the matter, the high-ranking visitor delivered a stern message from British Prime Minister David Cameron against an uncoordinated Israeli strike on Iran at this time.

The Israeli source related that British fears about an imminent Israeli
decision to strike Iranian nuclear facilities was further heightened by
Netanyahu's failure, during a phone conversation between the two leaders prior
to the Olympics in July, to provide clear and precise answers to Cameron's
questions about Israel's intentions on the Iranian front.

During his visit the British envoy met with a number of Israeli security and
diplomatic officials and stressed that Britain believes there is still time
for diplomatic measures to work, and that the economic and diplomatic
sanctions against Iran should be continued and perhaps heightened. 

Officials in the British embassy in Israel refused to comment on the issue, as
did officials in the Prime Minister's Office in Jerusalem.

Israel and Britain cooperate closely on the Iran issue in the intelligence and
diplomatic spheres, and Britain briefed Israel in full on the negotiations
between the six world powers and Iran. Britain also includes Israel in its
efforts to impose additional sanctions on Iran. London supports keeping up the
economic and diplomatic pressure on Iran while employing covert means to delayTehran's nuclear program.

According to the Israeli source, the firm message of the U.K. envoy, together
with the phone conversation during the same period between Netanyahu and
German Chancellor Angela Merkel and public remarks by high-ranking U.S.
officials in recent weeks have affected Netanyahu's and Barak's attitude to
the Iran issue.

The combined weight of the messages coming from Western powers seems to have cooled the two men's enthusiasm for launching an uncoordinated attack on Iran. Netanyahu, and to a greater extent Barak, have apparently recognized that in
addition to the military implications of such a move missile barrages that
could kill hundreds of Israeli civilians - it would also have serious foreign-policy implications, in the form of a very deep rift with Israel's greatest allies: France, Britain, Germany and the United States.

In the past two weeks, in the wake of the Western messages, Netanyahu has changed tack and began talking about the need to set "red lines" for Iran over its nuclear program in order to head off a military confrontation.

Ideally, he would like to present at least some of his proposals for new understandings on the issue to President Barack Obama during the UN General Assembly in New York later this month. In fact the leaders' visits to the city will not overlap, and in any event Obama seems none too eager to chat with Netanyahu these days. Evidence for this came on Sunday when U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the administration is not prepared to make such a public commitment.

"We're not setting deadlines," Clinton said in an interview with Bloomberg Radio.

On Sunday Netanyahu said Jerusalem and Washington were talking about pressuring Iran further. He said setting clear red lines that if crossed will prompt a military strike against Iran's nuclear facilities is the only way war can be avoided.

Clinton demurred, saying negotiations were "by far the best approach" to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons.

"We're watching very carefully about what they do, because it's always been more about their actions than their words," she said on the sidelines of an Asia-Pacific forum in Vladivostok, Russia.

Clinton emphasized that while Israel and the United States share the goal of preventing Iran from developing a nuclear weapon, they disagree over the negotiations timetable with the Islamic Republic. Israel is "more anxious about a quick response because they feel that they're right in the bull's-eye, so to speak," Clinton said, adding, "But we're convinced that we have more time to focus on these sanctions, to do everything we can to bring Iran to a good-faith negotiation."

Israeli officials were dismayed by Clinton's comments rebuffing Netanyahu's demand for "red lines."

"Such remarks won't stop Iran's centrifuges, just the opposite," one senior official in Jerusalem said, adding, "Without a clear, firm red line Iran won't stop its race to a nuclear weapon. Statements like these not only do not deter Iran, they reassure it," he said.


Also Western intel is puzzled at the deaths of a Syrian nuclear scientist and a scientist from the syrian chemical warfare program and ballistic missile program. Not sure if its Israeli commando's or internal house cleaning.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby pentaiah » 11 Sep 2012 05:44

About UK etc urging Israel not to attack Iran

I am reminded of saying in Telugu
"It's exciting and always Ernst to invite some one sure of not attending
Just as the infinite thrill of grooming a complete bald head "

Israel is dam well aware it can not do the job by itself so all this tamasha
They are smart not to wage war instead extract good will and one half pound
some other way

Even if Iran does get the bomb if Iran tries funny things it will be vaporized by Israel's allies
If unkil and the "international community" can live with TSP and NoKo bums
It can as well live with Iran bum simple
It's all big tamasha and Iran has years to go to gent one bum worth uranium
Last edited by pentaiah on 11 Sep 2012 06:47, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RamaY » 11 Sep 2012 05:45

^ confusing information at best.

On one hand only heavy-scale intervention by USa can bring down Assad, but all Turkish air force needs is a pilot :roll: to take him down.

And who warned Israel from taking a unilateral action agains Iran? The same guys who are asking US to bring down Assas?

And we want India to join this circus for some Arabian pigs?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 11 Sep 2012 06:10

don't know why we are jumping and gushing like school kids at the prospect of NATO intervention in Syria. especially, if Turkey gets involved, for India, it is an imperative that Turkey should not get any kind of confidence booster in Syria. at this point, we have no influence or leverage over them, and if their objectives are achieved in Syria, they will contend for leadership of Sunnis. for India, this is not desirable.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby saip » 11 Sep 2012 06:13

Couple of days back Canada pulled its diplomats from Iran. Do they know something?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby pentaiah » 11 Sep 2012 06:52

The deaths are logical if they are caught alive or defect
Then they will sing about TSP and NOKO involvement even via Iran
Last edited by pentaiah on 11 Sep 2012 14:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 11 Sep 2012 12:21

^^ yeah that's one of the possibilities they have put out.

-------
Region is on red alert for Israeli strike. Even more likely in the coming months. Still things are quite sensitive.
-------
The whole point of their psyops is to get the enemy to shit his pants and get worried that the west is preparing.
When Erdogan tried to get NATO involved US scuttled his plans. I think intervention will be limited. The British are already deployed on the scale of Iraq invasion and have the capabilities placed in the region for air strikes on the ready. French are there. US SF are also there. But these are more for the chemical weapons than the conflict

We'll see more only after elections I think.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Raja Bose » 12 Sep 2012 00:10

Oops! So much for "democratic change" engineered by the US :roll:

Protesters storm U.S. Embassy in Cairo

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 12 Sep 2012 03:00

Storming embassies is part of democratic movements too - as long as such storming doesnt happen from the wrong religions. If it is from the correct religions, one can of course democratically decide to democratically storm embassies.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby achit » 12 Sep 2012 04:17

Raja Bose wrote:Oops! So much for "democratic change" engineered by the US :roll:

Protesters storm U.S. Embassy in Cairo

No mention of film name!
How long before protest start in India?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Prem » 12 Sep 2012 05:39

Bibi Needs a “Time-Out”
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ ... -time-out/

Bibi’s having a meltdown, it looks like. First General Martin Dempsey, and then Hillary have told him that the United States will deal with Iran’s nuclear program according to its own timetable, and in accordance with its own national interests. Now President Obama has apparently put off Bibi’s request for a meeting in September. A scheduling issue, the two won’t be in New York (for the UN General Assembly) at the same time. The White House calmy noted that top administration officials, like Hillary, will be available to meet with Bibi. This is big news in Israel, and sure to be used by Romney: trying to talk Israel out of starting a destructive war, or refusing the demand that America fight its war for it, will be portrayed as “throwing Israel under the bus.” Noam Sheizaf of the indispensable Israeli website 972 analyzes the faceoff here.The sudden show of backbone from an American administration must come as a rude shock to Netanyahu, whose entire previous experience has taught him to think that when he says jump, the role of American leaders is simply to ask “How high?” But lo and behold, Obama isn’t doing that, and Bibi’s having a kind of diplomatic tantrum. The reader comments to the Times story were fascinating –an outpouring of resentment at what people feel is Netanyahu’s blatant interference in the US election.
One reason why Bibi might be inclined to overreach: the fawning reception he has previously received from the US Congress. Peter Beinart tells an interesting story about this in The Crisis of Zionism. When Bibi came to speak before the Congress, about two and half years ago, AIPAC was in town for its annual convention, including many major donors to congressional campaigns. Bibi was then in the midst of a confrontation with the administration over Israel’s expansion of settler colonies on the West Bank. Each congressman received one gallery pass for Bibi’s speech, and most gave it to their largest donor. So the gallery was AIPAC packed. DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz orchestrated, giving hand signals to the Congresspeople about when to stand and applaud (at Netanyahu’s most belligerent lines). So between an AIPAC gallery, and Congress playing their role as toadies for AIPAC funders, Bibi clearly got a very exaggerated impression of how easily he can move America. More people are paying attention now. I think (and pray) that this time he’s in for a very unpleasant surprise..

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby member_20283 » 12 Sep 2012 09:43

Raja Bose wrote:Oops! So much for "democratic change" engineered by the US :roll:

Protesters storm U.S. Embassy in Cairo


It happened in Libya too. Russia striking back ?

pentaiah
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby pentaiah » 12 Sep 2012 10:16

Obama refused to meet Bibi

Israel has lot of economic problems , high inflation and disparity between rich and poor is ever widening too.

Israel while important ally its like the tail wagging the Dog.

Bibi has to understand that USA has a lot of economic ground to cover before it can afford another war.

Besides he can easily deploy Mossad to "just like that" bring down Irans program, just unleash Mossad on them.
I am sure Johann would agree with me, Please come by ..

shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 12 Sep 2012 10:51

^^ they leaked that news to piss Obama off and perhaps make it an election issue. Now Obama will be forced to find time

Let's say Israel go on their own, question is will they be noticed? Answer is probably yes. Will they be stopped?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby pentaiah » 12 Sep 2012 11:10

No body will stop Israel
For all we know Israel is upping the ante to get more aid and more armaments , technology ityadi.
Bibi is what Neocon were for America...besides Bibi has problems at home he has to have a pleasant diversion.

From the movie

WAG THE DOG


Conrad 'Connie' Brean: What's the thing people remember about the Gulf War? A bomb falling down a chimney. Let me tell you something: I was in the building where we filmed that with a 10-inch model made out of Legos.
Stanley Motss: Is that true?
Conrad 'Connie' Brean: Who the hell's to say?


Conrad 'Connie' Brean ----> Played by Dustin Lee Hoffman -----> Movie director and consultant image maker for the President

Stanley Motss -------> Robert De Niro ----->The campaign manger to the president

Aditya_V
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Sep 2012 14:07

Looks like the US policies are coming to roost, they seem to suport with the help of Saudis a Host of Islamists whether in Saudi, Pakistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria etc. In the process they are creating a lot of wanna be Jihadis amoungst themselves.

American killed as Islamists storm US missions in Libya, Egypt

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Raja Bose » 12 Sep 2012 15:12


Singha
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 12 Sep 2012 15:13

A Libyan security official reported an American was shot to death as protesters burned the US consulate in Benghazi, and in Cairo, protesters scaled the walls of the US embassy walls and replaced an American flag with an Islamic banner.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 12 Sep 2012 15:31

Tragic.Condolences to the family,but,why,why,why does the US always gets its goose cooked in such misadventures? Have they learnt nothing from Vietnam,Afghanistan and Iraq...or even Pakistan?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/

World News latest
US ambassador to Libya 'killed in attack on Benghazi consulate'

US ambassador to Libya 'killed in attack on Benghazi consulate'
The US ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff have been reported killed by an armed Islamist mob that stormed and set fire to the United States consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi.

Protesters destroy an American flag pulled down from the U.S. embassy in Cairo Tuesday Photo: APBy Richard Spencer, and Barney Henderson
12 Sep 2012
The death of the US ambassador, Christopher Stevens, was reported by Reuters, who had spoken to a Libyan official. It had not been confirmed.

Libya's deputy prime minister has condemned the "cowardly act of attacking the US Consulate and the killing of (ambassador Mr Stevens and the other diplomats":

It was not clear if the ambassador was in his car or the Libyan consulate when the attack occurred on the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

"The ambassador was killed along with three other officials," said Wanis al-Sharif, the deputy minister of the interior.

"The Libyan ambassador and three staff members were killed when gunmen fired rockets at them," the official in Benghazi told Reuters.

It followed another earlier in the day on the American embassy in Cairo, in which no-one was injured but the flag was taken down and torn up and replaced with the black flag used by radical Islamists.

The violence was condemned by Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, who confirmed the death of a State Department official. "We are heartbroken by this terrible loss," she said. She said that in light of the attacks the US would be stepping up protection of "our personnel, our missions, and American citizens worldwide".

The mobs involved in both embassy attacks were mainly comprised of Salafis, followers of an ultra-traditionalist approach to Islam that has spread across North Africa as well as much of the rest of the Arab world from Saudi Arabia in recent years.

Although they were not the prime movers in the "Arab Spring" protests, they have become much more visible in countries like Libya where secular dictators have been overthrown.

They are incensed by a film made in America and promoted on Youtube entitled "The Innocence of Muslims" that is intended to expose the "hypocrisy" of Islam. It not only portrays the Prophet, which the religion prohibits, but ridicules him as a homosexual and advocate of paedophilia, and shows him having sex.

It was apparently made by an Israeli-American businessman and backed by Terry Jones, the fundamentalist pastor who previously threatened to hold public burnings of the Koran. A version of the film, which is in English, has been dubbed into Egyptian Arabic and shown on the website of an Egyptian Coptic Christian businessman based in America.

In Cairo, the protests started on Tuesday afternoon, with hundreds of Salafists attacking and some climbing the fortress-like walls of the embassy. They did not enter the building itself, but one man managed to bring down the Stars and Stripes flag and replace it with a black flag with the Islamic inscription "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His Prophet".

That flag has become associated with Salafism, though other Islamist groups have used it in the Arab Spring.

The attack in Benghazi, which last year was the launch-pad of the revolution which overthrew Col Muammar Gaddafi and is a seat of Islamist politics in Libya, took place later in the evening.

The mob there was armed and sprayed the Libyan security forces defending the building with gunfire, and even shot rocket-propelled grenades. Overwhelming the defences, they then proceeded to hurl small home-made bombs at the buildings, loot it and then set it on fire.

But Mitt Romney, the Republican presidential candidate, said: ""I'm outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi.

"It's disgraceful that the Obama Administration's first response was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks."
Last edited by Philip on 12 Sep 2012 15:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby nakul » 12 Sep 2012 15:38

They should have learnt their lesson from Afghanistan. All future US embassies should be like this
Image

Raja Bose
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Raja Bose » 12 Sep 2012 15:44

....and hire them to protect the embassies:

Image

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 12 Sep 2012 15:52

...but what if they act like Afghan cops and take more moolah from the attacker?!

Israeli-German spat over subs to Egypt.

Security Industry
Egypt subs deal boosts German arms sales
Germany's reported plan to sell Egypt submarines, underlines Berlin's drive to ease restrictions on arms exports to the Middle East, Africa and India.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... z26FaExUxS

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 12 Sep 2012 18:01

quote="Philip" :
US ambassador to Libya 'killed in attack on Benghazi consulate'
The US ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff have been reported killed by an armed Islamist mob that stormed and set fire to the United States consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi.

Protesters destroy an American flag pulled down from the U.S. embassy in Cairo Tuesday Photo: APBy Richard Spencer, and Barney Henderson
12 Sep 2012
The death of the US ambassador, Christopher Stevens, was reported by Reuters, who had spoken to a Libyan official. It had not been confirmed.

Libya's deputy prime minister has condemned the "cowardly act of attacking the US Consulate and the killing of (ambassador Mr Stevens and the other diplomats":
...
when gunmen fired rockets at them," the official in Benghazi told Reuters.
..

The mobs involved in both embassy attacks were mainly comprised of Salafis, followers of an ultra-traditionalist approach to Islam that has spread across North Africa as well as much of the rest of the Arab world from Saudi Arabia in recent years.

Although they were not the prime movers in the "Arab Spring" protests, they have become much more visible in countries like Libya where secular dictators have been overthrown.
..
The mob there was armed and sprayed the Libyan security forces defending the building with gunfire, and even shot rocket-propelled grenades. Overwhelming the defences, they then proceeded to hurl small home-made bombs at the buildings, loot it and then set it on fire.

quote

Perhaps like good-taliban type bloody pillaging raid more than anything else. How are these Salafis called mobs/gunmen/protestors? Libyan deputy PM clearly said it is a cowardly attack.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby rsingh » 12 Sep 2012 19:04




That is what happen when we try to solve a small short term problem by creating long times bigger problem. This is typical of USA. They killed secular dictator who gave food and job to all citizens and kept a feet on unwashed abduls. Now unwashed are multiplying because there is no job and no food. Indian, Egyptians and Philipino health workers are out health care system (used to be one of the best in region) is crumbling.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Singha » 12 Sep 2012 19:13

and Benghazi was supposed to the spark of the revolution and the home of the initial crop of "pro western" revolutionaries.

looks like Taqiya is over and the claws have come out.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Kati » 12 Sep 2012 19:17

^^^^^
RSingh-ji, I second it.
Will this event cause a pause in Syria?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 12 Sep 2012 19:21

It won't because the US is not behind the project in Syria.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Sep 2012 19:23

Shyam D , if western intelligence support is cut off and West pull thier strings with Turkey, Jordan, Qatar and Saudi. The FSA is dead


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