Internal Security Watch

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Singha » 21 Feb 2012 21:28

the good cardinal is just acting on requests from further up his managerial chain.

btw the two guards are being given VIP treatment in a guesthouse - pizza, pasta, fresh baked bread, juices, bottled water, fruit, aerated drinks is on the menu, they handed over the list themselves and Kerala police decided to oblige. should have been regular red rice, dal and mackerel curry.

negi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13109
Joined: 27 Jul 2006 17:51
Location: Ban se dar nahin lagta , chootiyon se lagta hai .

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby negi » 21 Feb 2012 21:39

^The fault does not lie with the Church/religious body in question they will do their thing the fault lies with the 'state' which does not plant a nice 13" size boot up their behinds for trying to disturb peace by bringing in religion into a homicide case which is sub judice.

The church has only been encouraged by how the state of India has turned the other way on every occasion when the Imam of Jama masjid spouts BS on verdicts passed by the SC.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2012 00:26

The Italian ship killing the fishermen will have consequences on the David Headley and Rana case.

Rome and Delhi on damage control mode

Both try to insulate “multi-faceted” ties from Kerala coast incident

The standoff between India and Italy over the killing of two Indian fishermen off the Kerala coast is not over yet with the detention of two marksmen, though the two sides are trying to prevent any damage to their “multi-faceted” ties.

Italian Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs Staffan De Mistura will arrive here on Wednesday, and the Foreign Minister next week, in an attempt to convince India that any of their nationals involved in criminal activities anywhere is subject to Italian law.
But India points to Section 4 of the Indian Penal Code, which says any crime committed against an Indian or on an Indian vessel, “wherever it may be,” can be tried in India.

“So there is extra-territorial application of both Indian and Italian laws. We understand that but as representatives of India, we will go by the legal process here. There are differences with Italy on the facts, procedure and processes, but we are willing to engage with them. If they so desire, we will provide consular access to the two marines detained by the Kerala police,” official sources said.

Officials admitted that both countries were facing an issue of this kind for the first time. “We are trying to come to grips with, and see how to go about, it.”

Asked whether there was any precedent, the sources said an Indian fishing vessel was attacked by nationals of another country in 2008, and “we know what happened after that in Mumbai.”

They felt that whether or not the ship was in India's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) shouldn't be made an issue. “Italy and India have the same clauses pertaining to extra-territorial jurisdiction. The ship was over 5,000 km away from the Italian coast. Don't make an issue out of the EEZ aspect.”

The aim was to insulate bilateral ties. “That's why we explained the legal framework on Sunday to the Italian delegation. Besides, law and order is a State subject,” the sources pointed out.

Rome has said Mr. De Mistura will “continue on a political level the action so far carried out by a delegation of [Italian] experts.”


brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 22 Feb 2012 00:55

The church must be in full fire-fighting mode in Kerala now. This is a Dandi-march moment. Rulers [in this case church and its political sympathizers] have to take sides - and whichever side they take - they lose.

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3826
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby hnair » 22 Feb 2012 02:11

IMHO, TWIW etc disclaimers;

The current Kerala Govt is the weakest in a long time(a majority of just 2 or 3 MLAs ) and is perceived to be filled with special interests groups even by the more upright amongst their own partymen. Its CM is from a party (Cong) that expected a lot more votes than actually came in. Post Shree Karunakaran's ouster and Shree Anthony's move to Center, a lot of majority voters gradually abandoned ship from Cong. The current CM (who led the last election campaign) is considered to be too overt in his religious affiliations and that sort of affected the final tally of Cong (but the communal parties that align with Cong got their usual quotas + anti-incumbency by swing voters from their own communities). In that situation, the Left emerged as the key recipient for majority votes and they did quite well by Kerala's past incumbent party's standards.

Now, the Cardinal should have been happy with this government. But instead he is causing a bucket of trouble for the ruling coalition, as the Left wont let this chance go to waste, particularly his inopportune comments on ministers he contacted. Plus it puts the other ministers who are not affiliated to the Cardinal in trouble. The cardinal should have let the law takes its own course. In fact with more italians streaming in, it will cause pain in New Delhi too, because others are watching too and an election is raging in India.

Sachin-saar, that last item in the list you posted, those clashes are considered an offshoot of what I mentioned in first para above.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2012 03:25

So no updates on the Delhi 'sticky' bomb matter?
Only time the police gets stuck like this is when Ind Muj is involved.

What does Doggy Singh say?

krithivas
BRFite
Posts: 433
Joined: 20 Oct 2002 11:31
Location: Offline

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby krithivas » 22 Feb 2012 04:09

Italy has created a new generation of brave seafarers - One coward abandoned his sinking ship before his crew and passengers had a chance, and another captain ordered opening fire at unarmed fishermen.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2012 05:05

Now we know why the cardinal was speaking out! he was under orders of Vatican upon Ital govt pressure.
The worst partis the Italians want to pay blood money as in an Islamic state and go scot free.

Itlay works back channels

Hindu

Sandeep Dikshit.



Two sides keen to ensure incident does not affect ties

The New Delhi-Rome standoff over the killing of two Indian fishermen off the Kerala coast is not over yet with the detention of two marksmen, although the two sides are trying to isolate the incident from their “multi-faceted'' bilateral ties.

Besides engaging diplomatically, Italy is working the Catholic channels via the Vatican to allow the two marines to leave for Rome after paying some compensation to the families of the killed fishermen. “But India is firm. Their case will be investigated here. And then, unless the courts decide otherwise, they should be tried here,” said highly placed sources, while disputing all the three legal approaches Italy is taking to secure the release of its two citizens.

The Italian Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister will meet his counterpart Perneet Kaur on Wednesday and the Foreign Minister arrives next week on a prescheduled visit to convince New Delhi that any of their nationals involved in criminal activity anywhere are subject to Italian law.

“This is their main approach,” said the sources while pointing out that Section 4 of the Indian Penal Code says that any crime committed against an Indian or on an Indian vessel “wherever it may be'' can be tried in India.

“So there is extra-territorial application of both Indian and Italian laws. As representatives of India, we will go by the legal process here. There are differences with Italy on facts, procedure and processes but we are willing to engage with them. If they so desire, we will provide consular access to the two detained by the Kerala Police,'' said official sources.

The second approach Italy is taking is to argue that the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) permits prosecution only by the state whose flag the ship is flying or the state of which the citizen is a national (in both cases Italy). The third is that their ships have the right to take on pirates.

“We think Italy is overdoing this. According to us, Article 97 of UNCLOS to which they are referring deals only with collision of vessels and other such incidents. Italy also feels it has the right to take action against pirates. In this too they are in the wrong. This right is given only to naval vessels and not merchant ships,''' said highly placed sources, basing their explanation on the advice given by the MEA's legal cell.

Officials here also confessed that both sides are facing an issue like this for the first time.

Asked if there were precedents of this nature, official sources pointed out that an Indian fishing vessel was attacked by nationals of another country in 2008 and “we know what happened after that in Mumbai.''

They also felt whether the ship was in India's exclusive economic zone (EEZ) or not shouldn't be an issue. “Italy and India have the same clauses pertaining to extra-territorial jurisdiction. The ship was over 5,000 km away from the Italian coast. Don't make an issue of the EEZ aspect.''

“Our goal is to isolate this incident. That's why we explained the legal framework on Sunday to the Italian delegation. Besides law and order is a state subject,” added the sources.


nawabs
BRFite
Posts: 1637
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nawabs » 22 Feb 2012 06:55

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main51.asp ... hermen.asp

Italy wants United Nations to intervene

India and Italy may now have engage in a legal battle after Italy made it clear that it will approach the Kerala high court to quash the First Information Report (FIR) against the two marine guards arrested for allegedly killing two fishermen off Kerala on 15 February after they ‘mistook’ them to be pirates.

Sources, also reveal that the Kerala Police is now planning to handover the case to Crime Branch and has constituted a new investigative team . The team will be headed by Sam Christy Daniel and Kochi City Commissioner MR Ajithkumar will also be a member. Senior police officials have also not ruled out handing the case over to the Central bureau of investigation if needed.

Meanwhile, according to court sources, the Italian embassy has contacted a senior Supreme Court lawyer to appear on behalf of the two marine guards who are in police custody in Kochi. “The Italian government was planning to file the petition before the High Court today (21 February), but delayed it for a day,” said a senior lawyer at Kerala high court.

Meanwhile, the widow of Selestine, one of the fishermen who got killed, moved her petition to high court to direct the government not to release the ship till the compensation bid is settled and relevant legal procedures are completed. Forty-two-year-old Dora filed her complaint before the high court demanding justice for her and her orphaned children. The petition is listed for tomorrow.

“Dora’s petition was a shocker to the Italian trouble shooting team. Italian government delayed their plan for a day in moving the petition to quash the FIR against the marines,” said the lawyer. After Dora moved her petition, the owners of Erica Lexie submitted a plea seeking the permission of the court to hear their part while hearing the petition.

Meanwhile, the Kollam Chief Judicial Magistrate has issued a search warrant to take in custody the guns used by the Italian naval commandoes for killing the fishermen. The investigating officer moved a petition in the court seeking permission to make search operations in the ship. The court has granted permission and the police are planning to conduct search operations on Wednesday 21 February.

“We will direct the captain to surrender the weapon before the investigation officer. If he refuses, we will conduct search operations and take custody of the weapon. It’s a legal formality against which Italy has no immunity,” P Chandrashekharan, Additional Director General of Police, Southern Range, Thiruvananthapuram, said.

However, another senior police officer revealed that the Captain of the ship has refused to hand over the weapons as the assault weapons belong to the Italian Navy. “We had directed the Captain to hand over the weapon when we took the custody of marines from the ship. He declined and gave us in writing that he required permission from the Italian government to hand over the weapon,” said MR Ajithkumar, commissioner, Kochi city.

On Monday, Kochi police produced the two arrested Italian naval guards Latorre Massimillaino and Salvatore Girone before KP Joy, Chief Judicial Magistrate, Karunagapally in Kollam district. The court remanded them to 14 days of judicial custody. The police also requested three days of police custody of the accused, which was granted. “They are in the CISF guest house which has three-star hospitality facility. We don’t want the investigation over the killing of two innocent fishermen to affect our diplomatic ties with Italy,” said Chandrashekharan.

The Italian government, however, is putting pressure on India to release the accused on bail. The Italian government is repeatedly insisting on the fact that since the incident took place on international waters, the Indian judiciary has no right to prosecute them.

“The main contention of Italians is the prosecution and investigation should be according to United Nations and not Indian laws. However, we maintain that killings happened within Indian waters,” said a police official.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2012 07:22

They should insist on Section 4 of IPC only


paramu
BRFite
Posts: 669
Joined: 20 May 2008 11:38

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby paramu » 22 Feb 2012 07:40

Involvement of Cardinal in the interest of Italian government raises some potential risks about the clergy. First of all, this is a law and order issue and a clergy has no role to play there. Similar to what we saw at Koodamkulam, they are now acting to protect the interest of outsiders. In future, if a conflict erupts between India and some western nation, will this clergy act in the interest of foreign powers? Looking at their actions, we can't say that they won't.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2012 07:43

They are foolish. In US until JFK was elected the rumor was a Catholic would listen to the Pope and thus US would be under foreign rule. By doing silly things they are undermining their own flock.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 22 Feb 2012 08:25

ramana wrote:So no updates on the Delhi 'sticky' bomb matter?
Only time the police gets stuck like this is when Ind Muj is involved.

What does Doggy Singh say?

Maybe IMuj does not exist outside of intel?

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10025
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 22 Feb 2012 08:48

Saffron loonies seem to be sprouting all over town. After 5 dacoits in Haryana turn out to be hardcore saffron terrorists yesterday, couple more show up in the fascist ruled state of Karnataka:
Right wing terror: Police pick up 2 suspects in Mangalore

Two persons were picked up on Monday from Belthangady in Mangalore in connection with the Malegaon blast case. It is learnt that the two persons belong to the Sanatan Sanstha organisation. Investigators are also exploring a possible link between the Malegaon blast and the blast in Goa.
Click here!

However, the National Investigation Agency's zonal office in Maharashtra [ Images ] has denied any fresh arrests in the case.

Sources informed that the two persons who were taken into custody are Vinay and Uday. However, details of their alleged role in the blast case has not been revealed by investigators.

The two have been arrested by the investigating agencies for further questioning.

A team of the investigating agency had gathered information based on the questioning of the other accused in the case and picked up the duo from Belthangady at 5 pm on Monday.

However, the two appear to be low-ranking operatives but investigators hope that their interrogation would reveal more details.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23846
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SSridhar » 22 Feb 2012 09:31

Hari Seldon wrote:The cardinal sin of interfering in ongoing criminal proceedings, for 'murder' actually, at the behest of phoren powers and loyalties...

I recall one particular poster in the nook thread downplaying religious mobilization church carried out in the koodankulam agitation. This incident too can be explained away in similar tones, perhaps.

Hari, the cardinal sin is also dragging religion into these matters. In this case, the Vatican is poking its nose because it thinks that it has a larger stake than the Indian judiciary, what with the fishing vessel (with a Christian name) and its crew (including the dead) being christians. And, of course, the Italians, wherever they may be, can do no wrong. They are thinking of settling the matter through 'blood money'. It would be interesting to see how this case meanders given the Quattrochi experience before and the help he received from various quarters for escaping India.

Indians, Indian sailors and Indian ships calling at Italian ports must be careful now.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23846
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SSridhar » 22 Feb 2012 14:48

Ms. Pratibha Patil is the most merciful President in 30 years
She has commuted death sentences of 23 petitioners to life imprisonment, which is over 90% of the total pardons granted since 1981.

It said that since 1981, 91 convicts sought commutation of their death sentences to life imprisonment. Of these, 31 petitions were accepted out of which 23 were during her tenure.
According to the reply provided to [RTI] applicant Subhash Agrawal, 18 mercy petitions were still pending before the President.

On February 9, she accepted the clemency petition of Sushil Murmu, pending since 2004, who was convicted for giving 'bali' (sacrifice) of a nineyear-old-boy in Jharkhand for his own prosperity, an RTI response from the Rashtrapati Bhavan said.

Patil, however, has rejected the petitions of five individuals, which include Rajiv Gandhi's three killers and Davinder Pal Singh and Mahedra Nath Das of Assam who had murdered Harakanta Das, the then secretary of the Guwahati Truck Drivers Association.

Murmu's sentence, however, was commuted even though his crime was termed by the Supreme Court as "an illustrative and most exemplary case to be treated as the 'rarest of rare cases' in which death is and should be the rule, with no exception whatsoever."


We have discussed the generosity or indecisiveness of Indian Presidents on clemency petitions many times before here. I can't understand how the brutal killing of a 9 year old boy as a sacrifice is less cruel (and therefore worthy of clemency to the killer) than any other involving individual murder(s) especially when the Supreme Court has shone it up as a model for determining what constitutes a 'rarest of rare case' and worthy of awarding a death sentence.

member_20617
BRFite
Posts: 194
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_20617 » 22 Feb 2012 15:09

SSridhar wrote:Ms. Pratibha Patil is the most merciful President in 30 years
She has commuted death sentences of 23 petitioners to life imprisonment, which is over 90% of the total pardons granted since 1981.

It said that since 1981, 91 convicts sought commutation of their death sentences to life imprisonment. Of these, 31 petitions were accepted out of which 23 were during her tenure.
According to the reply provided to [RTI] applicant Subhash Agrawal, 18 mercy petitions were still pending before the President.

On February 9, she accepted the clemency petition of Sushil Murmu, pending since 2004, who was convicted for giving 'bali' (sacrifice) of a nineyear-old-boy in Jharkhand for his own prosperity, an RTI response from the Rashtrapati Bhavan said.

Patil, however, has rejected the petitions of five individuals, which include Rajiv Gandhi's three killers and Davinder Pal Singh and Mahedra Nath Das of Assam who had murdered Harakanta Das, the then secretary of the Guwahati Truck Drivers Association.

Murmu's sentence, however, was commuted even though his crime was termed by the Supreme Court as "an illustrative and most exemplary case to be treated as the 'rarest of rare cases' in which death is and should be the rule, with no exception whatsoever."


We have discussed the generosity or indecisiveness of Indian Presidents on clemency petitions many times before here. I can't understand how the brutal killing of a 9 year old boy as a sacrifice is less cruel (and therefore worthy of clemency to the killer) than any other involving individual murder(s) especially when the Supreme Court has shone it up as a model for determining what constitutes a 'rarest of rare case' and worthy of awarding a death sentence.


UPA government does not like Supreme Court.

UPA government thinks that it is above the law

This is their way of saying 'we are the boss'!

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7558
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nachiket » 22 Feb 2012 15:25

SSridhar wrote:On February 9, she accepted the clemency petition of Sushil Murmu, pending since 2004, who was convicted for giving 'bali' (sacrifice) of a nineyear-old-boy in Jharkhand for his own prosperity, an RTI response from the Rashtrapati Bhavan said.

Patil, however, has rejected the petitions of five individuals, which include Rajiv Gandhi's three killers and Davinder Pal Singh and Mahedra Nath Das of Assam who had murdered Harakanta Das, the then secretary of the Guwahati Truck Drivers Association.

Wah Wah! So a crime against the "first family" of India deserves death. The brutal murder of a 9 year old boy doesn't. Our esteemed president has shown herself to be yet another lackey of the gandhis.

SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23846
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SSridhar » 22 Feb 2012 16:09

nachiket wrote:Wah Wah! So a crime against the "first family" of India deserves death.

nachiket, to be fair to the President, the 'no clemency' to the executors of the Sriperumbudur incident might have been because it was a terror attack that took away a dozen more lives (apart from the ex-PM's) and injured & maimed a few dozen more, many of them for life. It was an act to avenge the actions taken by an Indian Prime Minister in his normal discharge of duties. Or, at least, it can be argued that way. But, the clemency shown by the President to the guy who propitiated the Gods for his selfishness by giving a 'nara bali' of a 9-year old boy which the SC itself has declared as a model 'rarest of rare case' for the future, is disgusting and repulsive. The President has also not been consistent when she refused to accept the clemency in two other cases of murder.

member_21708
BRFite
Posts: 284
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_21708 » 22 Feb 2012 18:25


Teesta Setalvad 's former colleague Rais Khan has made startling revelations by filing an affidavit before the Nanavati commission... extracts from his first ever TV interview. Also see All Evidence Against Teesta Setalvad http://teesta-setalvad-evidence.blogspot.com/

nawabs
BRFite
Posts: 1637
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nawabs » 22 Feb 2012 18:44

^^ She along with people like Medha Patkar and S P Udayakumar are a disgrace to this country.They and there alikes have made running NGO's a business.Either this or they have a very distorted view of social service.

rgsrini
BRFite
Posts: 738
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 18:00

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby rgsrini » 22 Feb 2012 19:42

nachiket wrote:Wah Wah! So a crime against the "first family" of India deserves death. The brutal murder of a 9 year old boy doesn't. Our esteemed president has shown herself to be yet another lackey of the gandhis.


Bad argument. Completely independent and unrelated. Rajiv Gandhi was a prime minister of India. The assault was an assault on India by terrorists and deserves death punishment (just like Kasab, or Afzal Guru, or anyone indulging in terrorits attacks against India killing people).

The sacrifice of the precious little boy is brutal. It should be decided on its own merits and should not be linked with what happens to the killers of our Prime Minister.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Singha » 22 Feb 2012 19:48

well kasab and afzal guru did not try to touch the First Family and are likely to get away scot free.

only those who cross the First Family get punished. rest are saffron terrorists.

Agnimitra
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5150
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Agnimitra » 22 Feb 2012 20:29

Marx Karl Bhadrakumar chimes in on the seafaring macaroni murderers' case:
Church and the state in Kerala
The Church has waded into the snowballing diplomatic (and political) row between India and Italy over the killing of the two fishermen and the subsequent arrest and detention of two Italian Marines. The Catholic news agency Fides in Rome has quoted the Kochi-based Cardinal Mar George Alencherry as revealing that he has “urged” the Congress-led Kerala government headed by chief minister Oommen Chandy “not to act precipitately”.

To my mind, the revered Cardinal’s prompt intervention was timely. (See my earlier post.) But it raises some serious issues, too. Conceivably, the Cardinal could not have voiced a personal opinion so publicly to Fides. Fides is also the organ of the Vatican. The heart of the matter is that Alencherry made the remark while in Rome.

Actually, only four days back Alencherry was consecrated as a Cardinal by Pope Benedict XVI at the St. Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican. If the Vatican has in any way been associated with the Cardinal’s sensational remarks, the diplomatic row between India and Italy assumes another controversial dimension. The western public opinion comes into the picture. In such situations, western opinion usually consolidates. The Cold War history is replete with instances of the West pitting the Vatican against the Kremlin.
But the secular Indian public opinion is sure to firmly reject the Vatican’s locus standii in the matter. However, far more important, in Kerala itself, the bombshell by Alencherry is going to play out differently — and, perhaps, explosively. For one thing, the Church in Kerala is not a monolithic institution. From the animated web ‘chat’, it appears that the Cardinal’s intervention has provoked animosity even among people with distinctly Christian names.

The fishing communities in the coastal regions of Kerala who are particularly agitated about the current issue of the Italian Marines’ resort to summary killing, do not subscribe to the Syro-Malabar Church. In sociological terms, the latter consider themselves to be the ‘aristocrats’ of Kerala’s Christian society with an extremely eclectic culture (which could be the envy of any religion). They are a prosperous community led by ’status quoists’ and conservatives, unsurprisingly.

On the contrary, the teeming christian communities of the ‘working class’ milieu in the coastal belt of Kerala are militant and restive, imbued with shades of “liberation theology”. (The Communist Party of India (Marxist) during its recent party congress in Thiruvananthapuram hailed on its red banners Jesus Christ as a liberator.)

Last year in May, Alencherry was appointed by Pope Benedict XVI as the head of the entire Eastern Catholic Syro-Malabar Church and according to the Syro-Malabar tradition, he claims the title of “Patriarch of Mar Thoma Nasranis and the Gate of All India”. It added to Alencherry’s influential role in Kerala’s society and politics.

But the issue is how far his halo appeals to the teeming fishing villages of Kerala and Alencherry would probably infuriate them today. The paradox is that while the Mar Thoma Church in Kerala holds hardly any sway among the Christian communities of Kerala’s coastal belt, it is an immensely powerful voice in Kerala politics today. And Chandy’s government came into being thanks to the huge support from the Church of Kerala.

Alencherry may have spoken with an eye more on the forthcoming Piravom state assembly by-election on March 18 (on which the fortunes of Chandy’s government hangs by a thin thread) rather than the future of India-Italy strategic partnership in the multipolar world or the death of a poor fisherman at the hands of the Italian Marines, who all three happened to be christians.

Of course, Chandy’s government will be greatly embarassed by Alencherry’s remarks. Chandy himself takes pride in being a staunchly secular-minded political leader and he is indeed a charismatic figure in Kerala politics today, Alencherry has done a disservice by exposing Chandy to an unsavoury impression that he is a mere helpless captive of the Christian religious establishment and communal politics.

Chandy has become inexplicably silent on the issue itself and has let the Italian affair be a matter of ‘due process of law’, which would lend credence to the feeling that Alencherry’s magic worked, after all. Simply put, Chandy doesn’t look good in this quagmire. The night of the long knives may be beginning within the faction-ridden Congress unit in Kerala.

All this raises some serious issues about Kerala politics today. The heart of the matter is that despite a high literacy level, the average Malayali is highly susceptible to caste and communal politics. To my mind, this and this alone — Congress party’s vulnerability to communal politics in the Piravom bypoll — has tied the hands of South Block in Delhi from handling the present issue optimally at the diplomatic level with a view to find a rational, mutually acceptable and swift solution to this curious Indo-Italian fracas instead of letting it degenerate into the stuff of the bazaar of Congress politics. External Affairs Minister S.M.Krishna should be given a free hand to talk with his Italian counterpart Guilio Terzi who is expected in Delhi next Tuesday.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 22 Feb 2012 20:43

Its clear when its a case of India vs Others, where MKB bats.
Its always for the others.

Wonder how he could live with himself everyday as he is and was going against his oath when he joined the Govt service. Maybe all of them feel the oath is notional.


The issue is India vs Italy and he reduces it to Italy vs Kerala and brings in local politics to muddy the waters.

rgsrini
BRFite
Posts: 738
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 18:00

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby rgsrini » 22 Feb 2012 22:06

Singha,
The president rejected the pardon of 2 other killers besides Rajiv's killers. They didn't touch the "family" as well. Also, Kasab will definitely hang.

hnair
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3826
Joined: 03 May 2006 01:31
Location: Trivandrum

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby hnair » 22 Feb 2012 22:21

hmm..... except for one line ("To my mind, the revered Cardinal’s prompt intervention was timely"), the rest of the article seems exactly like the assessment I posted in the previous page. Basically he is saying Cardinal is making life difficult for a govt that is friendly to him. Infact it is not Shree Bhadrakumar who made it "Kerala vs Italy", but the Cardinal. Shree Bhadrukmar is elaborating on the background, as well as the current Kerala Govt's fragile state. The recently vacant Piravom state legislature constituency was held by the recently expired minister (and long time irritant to Left), Shree TM Jacob. He had links with everyone and could hold the seat for a long time due to his personal strength, but the left is quite strong otherwise.

(I do get my BP up north when I used to read Shree MKB in Asia times etc, but he seems to be doing a certain role - the other's POV, since there is no one on the other side to write consistently like him. His late father was a prominent politician/unionist of the leftist type during his times, was a journalist with the "Kerala Kaumudi" paper for long and might have influenced him. Being a constant irritant serves some purposes)

ManjaM
BRFite
Posts: 1217
Joined: 15 May 2010 02:52
Location: Padvaralli

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ManjaM » 23 Feb 2012 04:36

is there any truth to this -
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... %3Darticle
But there is also evidence of homegrown piracy off the coast of Kerala.


or is it a case of the authors using innuendos to make a case of a justified shooting in the case of "Enrica Lexie"?

One author is MARGHERITA STANCATI -
Born in Turin in 1985 Margherita completed her studies at the University of Oxford where she specialized in modern Middle Eastern studies. She spent time in Iran on a number of occasions and is now the news assistant at the Rome bureau of the Wall Street Journal.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... %3Darticle

I guess the italian psy ops brigade is out in force trying to whip up some positive opinion.

And BTW Italian Deputy Foreign Minister Staffan de Mistura comes to talk to Preneet Kaur about it with charm mode in full blast - See the picture
http://www.deccanherald.com/images/edit ... /italy.jpg

suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3572
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby suryag » 23 Feb 2012 11:22

five shot dead by police in chennai gunbattle

TN police getting back at the bank robbers ? Btw what happened to the case in which a police inspector was hacked on the road with the TV cameras capturing his final moments ?

Rudradev
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3524
Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Rudradev » 23 Feb 2012 11:42

Very interesting news about the Cardinal from Kerala undertaking damage control on Italy's behalf, with an outreach appeal to Catholic groups all over India. Following, of course, the murder of two Indian fishermen in Indian waters by Italian marines.

At least the victims were Christian... so, for fear of alienating the local flock, the Indian Church is at least somewhat muted in its lobbying for Italy.

Can you imagine if they had been Hindu?

Did you know that Hinduism is not even recognized as a religion in Italy? (Only the Abrahamic faiths are.) We're talking about the Saudi Arabia of Christism here.

Kanchan Gupta writes about an incident in 2009 when Durga Puja celebrations in Rome were shut down by the police there... for no reason whatsoever, other than sheer anti-Hindu bigotry. Exercising this bigotry was not the arbitrary decision of a few po-dunk ignorant cops, as it might have been in America. It was-- and remains today-- an integral, institutionalized part of the Italian constitution.

http://kanchangupta.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... lcome.html


The story behind the cancellation needs to be told, if only to point out that Christian countries in the West, whose Governments so blithely criticise the ‘lack’ of ‘religious freedom’ in India, have no compunctions about trampling on Hindu sentiments at home. After last year’s experience, when permission for celebrating Durga Puja in Rome was abruptly withdrawn by officials who cited specious reasons to justify their grossly unfair decision, the organisers, led by Mr Rajesh Sahani, a Sindhi from Kolkata who speaks flawless Bengali, took ample precautions this year. They were given permission to organise the Puja at Parko Centocelle, a public park on Via Cailina, Torpignattara. Three weeks ago, permission was granted for the Puja at the park and necessary formalities were completed.

Early this past week, the Puja organisers were told they could not use the park as a crime had been committed there and the location posed security-related problems. The organisers agreed to change the venue. Another park was selected, permission was given to celebrate Durga Puja there, and the preparations began all over again in right earnest. Then, like a bolt from the blue, at 4 pm on Thursday came the withdrawal of permission by the Municipal Police. The organisers were bluntly told to pack up and leave hours before Durga Puja was scheduled to begin with Akal Bodhon in the evening. Why? No reason was proffered.

Some officials are believed to have told the organisers that the cancellation of permission at the eleventh hour, both last year and this year, was meant to be “retaliatory action against the persecution of Christians in India”. It may be recalled that the President of Italy, Mr Giorgio Napoletano, has been vociferous in demanding that Europe should do more in support of Christians in India and to help them ‘affirm their right to religious freedom’. The Government of Italy has in the past summoned the Ambassador of India to convey to him that it has “deep concern and sensitivity for the ongoing inter-religious violence... that has caused the death of many Christians.” The Pope has been no less harsh in denouncing India.

There could be another reason, apart from its “deep concern” about the welfare of Christians in India, for Italy’s callous disregard of the sentiments of Hindus in that country. Although the Italian Constitution guarantees religious freedom, under the Lateran Treaty with the Vatican, Italy recognises only the three religions of Semitic origin — Christianity, Judaism and Islam. All other religions are no more than paganism and are to be shamed and shunned. The Vatican would not countenance any open breach of the Lateran Treaty; Italy would not want to be seen as recognising Hinduism.


Thanks to the relentless lobbying efforts of India's ambassador to Italy... a Muslim gentleman named Arif Shahid Khan, who went far beyond the call of official duty... Italian Hindus and NRIs were finally able to have their Puja celebration 48 hours behind schedule (the equivalent of Christians being "allowed" to celebrate Easter on Tuesday.)

This was in September 2009. It's worth noting that, only five months before the incident, India had gone to the polls and delivered a fractured mandate which returned the Sonia Maino government to power in New Delhi.

We've all seen how the Indian Church behaves when the interest of their fellow Christians... white ones... is threatened.

I wonder if there was even a murmur of protest from them at the plight of their fellow Indians, in Italy in 2009?

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7930
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 23 Feb 2012 15:46

suryag wrote:Btw what happened to the case in which a police inspector was hacked on the road with the TV cameras capturing his final moments ?

That case has died down I feel. And may be the dead SIs relatives were quiet adequately compensated. What I remember about this incident was that:-
1. One SI had a big fight with his wifey and her family
2. The angered wifey and co, got in some goons for hire to attack the SI (dont know to kill or maim him).
3. The poor SI who actually bled to death was no way connected with #1 or #2. The goons mistook him (he was also wearing a helmet) and attacked him.

So my take is that if the family who planned and executed could manage the attack, they can also manage the rest. The dead SIs family may have been compensated and the whole case hushed up.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 23 Feb 2012 22:10

As I suggested - it is a Dandi march moment. Whicever side the Catholic church establishment takes - it loses. They will be forced to reveal their preference for the "foreign" cultural centre and hence the corresponding dilution of affiliation to the local.

At the end of the day - given the inseparability of the church and mosques from their respective imagined imperialistic centres - more such events will only reveal the real face of the core of organized religions.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4454
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 23 Feb 2012 23:12

I wonder if there was even a murmur of protest from them at the plight of their fellow Indians, in Italy in 2009?


Why botheration, yaar. Relax onlee.

Christian has killed Christian-they have been doing it for 2000 yrs. What goes of your father? Religious freedom and all that.

hailinfreq
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 13
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 21:27

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby hailinfreq » 23 Feb 2012 23:32

came across this in the WSJ Indian real time blog.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-sticky-bomb-in-game/articleshow/11894009.cms
Delhi cops find ‘sticky bomb’ in game?
TNN Feb 15, 2012, 06.24AM IST
Tags:
sticky bomb|Police Commissioner|magnet bomb

NEW DELHI: On Tuesday, police commissioner B K Gupta told reporters he had spent hours researching sticky bombs. Officers then distributed printouts which ostensibly explained what a sticky bomb is.

The printout stated, "Sticky bombs are a type of explosives crafted from one Bomb and 5 Gel. At point blank range, it can cause a total of 100 damage to mobs and 200 to the player". It also listed 'Statistics' as: Damage 100, Max Stack 50, Shoot Speed 5, Use Time 24, Sell 1.


Any idea if this was this really true? Are our investigators really this pathetic or was TOI just making things up?

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6339
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Dilbu » 24 Feb 2012 01:13

sanjaykumar wrote:I wonder if there was even a murmur of protest from them at the plight of their fellow Indians, in Italy in 2009?


Why botheration, yaar. Relax onlee.

Christian has killed Christian-they have been doing it for 2000 yrs. What goes of your father? Religious freedom and all that.

They were not just Christians. They were Indian citizens.

sanjaykumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4454
Joined: 16 Oct 2005 05:51

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sanjaykumar » 24 Feb 2012 01:47

Err...sarcasm onlee saar.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2012 02:02

No updates on the Delhi sticky bomber case?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 54275
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 24 Feb 2012 03:44

Was this an 'encounter' in Chennai?

Five bank robbers from Bihar and West Bengal killed in Chennai

Judicial magistrate inquiry underway.


Hindu has some pictures which are interesting.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 24 Feb 2012 03:45

Did we expect updates? In a way it is confirmation - it was carried out by forces who cannot be exposed or retaliated on. It might cause a bloodbath and stop growth and prosperity by merely being exposed.


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: csaurabh, pradeyal, ssaravanan and 34 guests