Internal Security Watch

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_19648 » 25 Jul 2012 16:02

http://www.firstpost.com/india/assam-riots-fruits-of-living-in-denial-over-bangladesh-influx-390536.html

Assam riots: Fruits of living in denial over Bangladesh influx

One of the red herrings being tossed around in the context of the ongoing riots in Assam is that the Muslims who attacked the Bodo tribals and drove them out of their homes are in fact Indians, and that it breaks their bleeding riotous hearts to be branded Bangladeshi settlers.

As perverse as that may sound, that claim isn’t an elaborate justification for the riots as typical ‘boys will be boys’ conduct. But it does represent another effort to draw the curtain on the foundational problem that underlies both the latest riots and the simmering tensions in Assam and elsewhere in the North East: the problem of unchecked infiltration of Bangladeshis into India.

Victims of recent ethnic clashes at a relief camp set up on the premises of a college in the violence-hit Kokrajhar district on Wednesday. PTI

Precise estimates of the number of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants in India are hard to come by but conservative official estimates put it at over 20 million. But every attempt to raise it as a matter of concern, and to point to the security and other social perils that they come laden with have been met with cussed unwillingness to face the facts.

Lt Gen (Retd) SK Sinha, who served in the region and served as Assam Governor following his retirement, knows what it means to raise the red flag of warning. In 1998, as Governor, he sent a report to President KR Narayanan, in which he warned of a grave danger to India’s security from the influx of illegal migrants from Bangladesh.

In that report, Sinha had pointed out that even as far back as 1947, Pakistan wanted Assam incorporated in East Pakistan (as the eastern province that subsequently became Bangladesh was known). Only the opposition of regional leaders thwarted that transfer, but the matter rankled with Pakistani leaders who equated it as a dispute nearly as important as the Kashmir dispute. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto is known to have claimed that Pakistan had “very good claims” over Assam and some districts adjacent to East Pakistan.

Sinha’s report noted that even the father of the Bangladeshi revolution, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman, whom India helped to liberate Bangladesh in1971, had expressed a covetous desire for Assam, given its forest and mineral resources. “No matter how friendly our relations with Bangladesh,” Sinha had warned, “we can ill-afford to ignore the dangers inherent in a demographic invasion from that country.”

For his efforts, Sinha was pilloried by the Congress and the CPM and accused of stoking communal tension. Some 22 Congress MPs wrote to the President asking for Sinha’s recall.

Sinha’s concern all along, as a military strategist, was that the whole of India’s north-easteren region was connected to the rest of India by a “chicken neck corder” which, if cut off, would effectively isolate the region. He feared that the influx of illegal migrants was turning lower Assam districts – particularly Dhubri and Goalpara – into a Muslim-majority region, and that it would be only a matter of time before they demanded merger with Bangladesh as part of a ‘Greater Bangladesh project’. “The loss of lower Assam will sever the entire land mass of the northeast from the rest of India and the rich natural resources of that region will be lost to the natin,” Sinha had observed.

In the decade and more since then, the plot has played out exactly as Sinha has predicted, and has been borne out by Census statistics over time, but most political parties have been blind to the security and social threats arising therefrom.

The irony is that the Indian Muslims in Assam, for all their religious affinity with the illegal Bangladeshi Musim immigrants, lose just as much from the influx as the other native people of Assam. The illegal immigrants compete for the same manual work – as rickshaw pullers and in the construction and other industries. And being somewhat more desperate for jobs, they are considered more industrious. And if they manage to procure illegal citizenship documents in the black market, as often happens, they illegal immigrants even have access to work under the NREGA program and services under the National Rural Health Mission.

Yet, political parties are reluctant to so much as have an honest conversation on this issue.

On the other hand, the argument has been made that there may even be an acceptable level of illegal immigration from Bangladesh on the ground that they add to the cheap labour pool in India. This argument is specious on at least two counts. For one, India isn’t exactly lacking in unskilled labour force, given the vast numbers that still live in abject poverty in both rural and urban areas. If it weren’t for rural employment guarantee schemes that have driven wage price inflation, there would still be an abundance of cheap labour. And now, illegal Bangladeshi immigrants have even begun to access these schemes and health services, driving up the cost of service delivery.

For another, even if it’s an overstatement that every illegal immigrant is a potential security threat, the presence of millions of such immigrants—who effectively remain off the radar of the official agencies—is a recipe for disaster.

Even if it is the case that the riots in Kokrajhar, which have since spread to other districts were not directly perpetrated by illegal immigrants, their unchecked entry in the millions over time has played an undeniable role in sharpening religious and ethnic polarisation in Assam and other States in the northeastern region. To live in continued denial over this will only stoke the tensions even further.

Right now, the immediate need is for calm to be restored, but the longer a mature discussion on the underlying problem is delayed, the bigger and more serious will it get.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 25 Jul 2012 19:05

varunkumar wrote:
A friend from Assam called & informed that state police is protecting Bangladeshis in Kokrajhar & Udalgiri districts


But this will not stop these very same Assamese from voting the Congress party to power again, the same party which does not even pretend to represent their interests but makes it very clear they are on the side of the Bangladeshi illegal immigrants. Hindus connive with their oppressors to ensure their own persecution -- so what are they complaining about now?


Let us be realistic about the voting issue. Many from the upper crusts of society tend to shout a lot about the power of "voting", and somehow election results as self-legitimizing of some representation of popular sentiments.

The ground reality will not be obvious, unless you have worked from within the political system to see how votes are really extracted, and who manages this extraction. In most cases, for a very wide area of India, geographically and demographically - the aam voter is tied to financier+politico+crminal nexus, and depend on them for their livelihood or the safety of tehir life an dlimb and their family. I know the system working from the grassroots level. Take an urban slum for example - in most cases these people are on illegally occupied land, occupied by an influential urban goonda [who might be from an illustriously civilized and advanced section of society+party+education etc], who then lets it out to slum dwellers. The bosses' party/chamcha collects rent+women+other benefits, and even provide employment and tae a cut from that employment in the name of the boss/party. The gloriously superior Raj-hangover police forces are in total cahoots with whoever ahppens tod ominate the local biz+politco+mafia scene. [Their own upper level hierarchy will have corresponding ties with corresponding outer-civilized goondas at corresponding levels].

There are ways and means to estimate how people from a zone have voted. The conseuqneces of wrong voting - that is not according to the wishes of the prevailing wind within the biz+politico+criminal network dominating that zone, can be disastrous for the people. Their livelihood may be jeopardized, or even their lives and limbs or their women. This is how it works on the ground.

Because people have no means to ensure their own physical safety - the state monopolizes all right to violence, [and of course those it tolerates as part of the criminal nexus to crry out violence according political or financial secret needs and decisions], the police still think they are kind of detached and superior Raj type lords of the people and basically help protect the existing power's interests - people cannot hit back, even through votes. But note that "existing pwoer" is actually determined by the interests of the underlying criminal+politico+financier network and not necessarily just on the party in power.

When we see regime changes through voting, its because the underlying financier+criminal nexus has decided to teach the existing regime a lesson or that they think they will gain more with a change.

Its no use lambasting Hindus or aam for voting in the wrong way. I know what I am saying could be twisted into support for extra-constitutional means. That is not what I imply. The means to change is through mass movements, civil disobedience, in such large numbers that the biz+crminal guys themselves think that it would be better to switch to this new force to stay in profiteering and hence do not combine with the state's coercive forces to crush the nascent dissent. It is the task of the elite dissenters to show the way. They know - just as they have known and used for centuries - the internal weknesses of the elite, its factions, the educational wherewithal to utilize all fissures, and the confidence of "being right" that comes with being born into elite sections.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 25 Jul 2012 19:20

Assam valley politics is dominated by a very old nexus of Ahom [and surprise surpise, some WB Bengali and some UP origin "families"] business clans who also have semi-feudal heritage. These have always had rather close ties with Delhi for business needs. There is an internal three tier fight within Ahom society - for dominance. Most of the time, since the upper tier started collaborating with the Brits, and subsequently joined up with INC as it became obvious that INC was gaining the middle class numerical support and Brits would not last forever - the business groups have been with Delhi mostly. The AGP jhatka was a deliberate kick of assertion by the second generation since all the benefits were being monopolized by the some 12-13 clans.

As long as the biz ties remain strong, Delhi and biz circles will compromise and look after each others interests : for Delhi, no highlighting of any Islamist threat is electorally and perhaps financially feasible [Gelf geld may dry up], or the BD link of the trans subcontinental drugs+slavery network is so crucial that the networks tentacles within ruling interests ensures that the "threat" is not highlighted. The valley fat cats know that their physical and profiteering existence is onee ensured by the strong military and virtual defence shield afforded by Delhi.

There you go. There is a bid to coopt the ULFA brains [Baruah is still protected, perhaps in China] to be unleashed on other separatists. The Muslim trigger could perhaps have been unleashed on the Boros as a small scale experiment. It may be so that Delhi no longer is able to deny entirely the wishes or actions of the transnational networks - which at this stage - for both ends of India, are solidly controlled by Islamists [Pak and BD].

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_23367 » 25 Jul 2012 19:36

From Twitt:

krish harikrishnan‏@truevirathindu

Just got a lead from an Army Officer posted in Assam. More than 120 Hindus have been found dead,and yesterday they found 17 with throat slit



Expand Reply
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Sri Sri Ravi Shankar‏@SriSriSpeaks

Wake up& join to condemn this heinous crime against ethnic people in Assam by the fundamentalist immigrants causing huge humanitarian crisis


taslima nasreen ‏@taslimanasreen

Some politicians accepted B'deshis in India & gave them legal papers, so that they vote 'em.Now Frankenstein is here. Face it. #Assam

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vishvak » 25 Jul 2012 20:10

Assam violence: Death toll rises to 38, train services hit
My understanding in color.
Six more persons fell victim to unabated violence between minority immigrants and Bodos in three districts of lower Assam, taking the death toll in the ethnic strife to 38 even as the entire Northeast remained cut off by rail for the second day today.
(Perhaps more correct would be: Six more today were butchered in total 38 citizens of India, in non-stop violent part of external religious aggression, between infiltrators who demand rights in India & excuses to blame others in the name of religion and Bodo native citizens in three whole districts of lower Assam, where vote bank politics has passively enabled this anti-national targeted barbarism to continue at the cost of Indian citizens. The north east railways remains cut off for two days although Bangladeshi borders remain as porous as ever.)
...
"We have urged the state government to provide us adequate security so that the Railways can operate the trains to ease the suffering of the passengers," Hajong said.
(Indian citizens are left with reduced rail security within India for fear of religious aggression from outside.)
...
An estimated two lakh people have fled their homes and taken shelter in 150 relief camps set up in the three districts as nearly 500 villages have been abandoned following the violence.
(Citizens of the country fled homes and entire Indian villages have been abandoned. Indian citizens are now living in relief camps while infiltrators want the same treatment in the name of minority ism to grab any legitimacy post riots.)

Five Assam ministers Prithbi Majhi, Nilamoni Sen Deka, Nazrul Islam, Rockybul Hussain and Chandan Brahma are also camping in the affected areas.
(From link, link;
Prithbi Majhi - Revenue & DM, Relief & Rehabilitation, Tea Tribes Welfare, Labour &Employment, INC
Nilamoni Sen Deka - Agriculture, Horticulture & Food Processing, Parliamentary Affairs INC
Nazrul Islam - Food & Civil Supplies, Welfare of Minorities, Haj, party: INC.
Rockybul Hussain - Panchayat & Rural Development, Environment & Forest party: INC.
Chandan Brahma - Transport, Tourism, WPT & BC (only BTAD areas), Party: BODOLAND PEOPLE'S FRONT)



The words like 'riots' within India are now misused to pass off external aggression and direct violence. Infiltrators are described as any other 'minority' to be looked after post riots while native citizens of India are blamed for the same and left to fend for themselves because of reduced security or no security at all and are in relief camps after targeted violence.

All international conspirators should be exposed and shamed, their backing taken over by the state and the lands should be cleansed of anti-national aggression.

The defense of the country seems to have become 24/7 job for all as barbarians take their own time and planing to hit while authorities are concerned only with votebanking.

From link
Former Home Secretary G K Pillai, who is from the Assam cadre, believes .. Infiltration has come down a great deal in Assam .. The number of Bangladeshi immigrants in Assam has come down a great deal and they have been moving to other states and settling down .. In Assam there has been a lot of animosity between the Bodos and the Bengali Muslim settlers, most of who are from Bangladesh.
..
The major issue being land grabbing, sources also point out.
..
According to an Intelligence Bureau official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the conflict has exposed the inability to concentrate on intelligence collection on local social issues.

The fact that so much ammunition was found at the scene of the violence indicates that they were hidden over a long period of time and some were even brought in for the violence, the official says, adding that the intelligence has failed badly.

Meaning thereby that ammunition was gathered over time and violence was planned.
Last edited by vishvak on 25 Jul 2012 20:59, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 25 Jul 2012 20:18

Relative of mine is a plantation owner in Assam. He says that this is by far the worst riot he has ever witnessed. However, he said that things will die down like they normally do and things will continue on as usual. Paramilitary forces have already taken control over most of the riot hit sectors and more are being called in. Doesn't seem too bothered by it.

$$ makes you immune i guess... :roll:

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Frederic » 25 Jul 2012 21:12

brihaspati wrote:Assam valley politics is dominated by a very old nexus of Ahom [and surprise surpise, some WB Bengali and some UP origin "families"] business clans who also have semi-feudal heritage. These have always had rather close ties with Delhi for business needs. There is an internal three tier fight within Ahom society - for dominance. Most of the time, since the upper tier started collaborating with the Brits, and subsequently joined up with INC as it became obvious that INC was gaining the middle class numerical support and Brits would not last forever - the business groups have been with Delhi mostly. The AGP jhatka was a deliberate kick of assertion by the second generation since all the benefits were being monopolized by the some 12-13 clans.

As long as the biz ties remain strong, Delhi and biz circles will compromise and look after each others interests : for Delhi, no highlighting of any Islamist threat is electorally and perhaps financially feasible [Gelf geld may dry up], or the BD link of the trans subcontinental drugs+slavery network is so crucial that the networks tentacles within ruling interests ensures that the "threat" is not highlighted. The valley fat cats know that their physical and profiteering existence is onee ensured by the strong military and virtual defence shield afforded by Delhi.

There you go. There is a bid to coopt the ULFA brains [Baruah is still protected, perhaps in China] to be unleashed on other separatists. The Muslim trigger could perhaps have been unleashed on the Boros as a small scale experiment. It may be so that Delhi no longer is able to deny entirely the wishes or actions of the transnational networks - which at this stage - for both ends of India, are solidly controlled by Islamists [Pak and BD].



Bji,

For people like me that are total outsiders to Assam and its demographics, would you be kind enough to write a short precis on the demographics during the late 1940s and the subsequent Congi and other political machinations that ultimately skewed it?

Thanks.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 25 Jul 2012 21:37

Fredric, you can also help by looking at the role of Fakhruddin Ahmed and his politics.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sushupti » 25 Jul 2012 21:50

Frederic wrote:Bji,

For people like me that are total outsiders to Assam and its demographics, would you be kind enough to write a short precis on the demographics during the late 1940s and the subsequent Congi and other political machinations that ultimately skewed it?

Thanks.


Here is some data which needs to be updated:

2.3. An estimate of the numbers
Arun Shourie has brought the findings of the police and other Government agencies to the notice of the publ­ic. According to an Inter­nal Note prepared by the Home Minist­ry, "large-scale infiltration has changed the demographic landscape of the bor­ders", and it also af­fects Delhi, Maharashtra, Gujarat, etc.[8]
By 1987, the number of illegal immigrants in West Ben­gal alone was ca. 4.4 million, and 2 to 3 million in Assam, so that "large stretches of the border in these states are becoming predominantly inhabited by Banglade­shi Muslims. The simme­ring communal tension in some of the border areas is one of the manife­stations of the effects of large-scale illegal migration of Bangl­adeshi nationals who have slowly displaced or dispossessed the local population, particularly those belonging to the Hindu com­munity".[9] Moreov­er: "In the metropolitan cities of Delhi and Bombay not less than 4 to 5 lakh Bangladeshi Muslims have been residi­ng".[10]
The Hindu population in East Bengal had declined from 33% in 1901 to 28% in 1941. It fell to 22% by 1951 due to the Partition and the post-Partition exodus, and to 18.5% in 1961. By 1971, it had fallen to 13.5%, partly due to the 1971 massacre by the Pakistani Army, partly due to intermittent waves of emigrati­on. The 1981 figure was 12.1%. In 1989 and 1990, due to "large-scale destru­ction, desecration and damage inflic­ted on Hindu temples and religious institutions"[11], "clandestine migrat­ion­­­ by the Hindus to India went up".[12]
On top of the con­tinu­ous trickle of Hin­du‑Buddh­ist refugees fleeing discrimi­nat­ion and harassment, the big major­ity of clandestine immigrants consisted of Muslims seeking "living space". It is very hard to count them, but the difference between the actual Bangladesh populat­ion in 1991 and predictions for 1991 based on the birth rate and other data shows that millions of people have disappeared from the radar screen of Bangladeshi census workers: "The net shortfall, according to Bangla­desh gover­nment projec­tion was between 7.24 and 9.24 million, and according to UNDP estimates it was between 12.24 and 14.24 million."[13] And since 1991, mil­li­ons more have been added to that number.

http://www.bharatvani.org/books/demogislam/part2.html

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_23629 » 25 Jul 2012 22:48

All international conspirators should be exposed and shamed, their backing taken over by the state and the lands should be cleansed of anti-national aggression.


How will these "international conspirators" be exposed and shamed when the ruling party relies on the support and goodwill of these very same international conspirators to perpetuate its rule? It represents their interests. (Amazingly, the supposed vicitims too vote for the same party knowing that it represents the interests of only the international conspirators and no one else.)

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Yayavar » 25 Jul 2012 23:22

varunkumar wrote:
Gandhi was discovered and propped up by the British, helped by the missionaries, to ensure this very outcome -- "demilitarized Hindus." It is the most successful social engineering ever.


OT..but I assume the loss in 1857, and earlier wars around India had nothing to do with 'demilitarizing' Indians? All the weapons buried across the fields of India during the massacre following 1857 had nothing to do with demilitarizing.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_23629 » 25 Jul 2012 23:37

viv wrote:
varunkumar wrote:
Gandhi was discovered and propped up by the British, helped by the missionaries, to ensure this very outcome -- "demilitarized Hindus." It is the most successful social engineering ever.


OT..but I assume the loss in 1857, and earlier wars around India had nothing to do with 'demilitarizing' Indians? All the weapons buried across the fields of India during the massacre following 1857 had nothing to do with demilitarizing.


The Brits were terrified of 1857 -- Indians managed to kill 10,000 of them. In no other colonized country, not even in the US, did this kind of thing happen. Brits were terrified for decades after that. They were not scared of a direct war, but they had nightmares about a general revolt where the entire population would rise against them along with the sepoys. (Gen. Dyer in his testimony said he had ordered Jallian wallah bag because he was convinced Indians were planning an 1857 like revolt in Punjab.)

Gandhi was spotted early and propped up to "demilitarise" Hindus -- his message being "don't lift a finger on the Brits ever again even if they kill you all." Read about Gandhi's early days in South Africa -- all his pals who raised his profile were missionaries and it was a missionary who suggested to Gandhi to go to India to teach his non-violence to Indians. The Brits made a great show in South Africa of succumbing to Gandhi's demands to raise his profile among Indians back home to prove the "effectiveness" of non-violence as a weapon.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Yayavar » 26 Jul 2012 02:17

Varunji: the people were demilitarized post 1857. The revolutionaries were far and few between as it was not easy to acquire weapons. It was to get the modern, both individual and organized (army/airforce) fighting know-how that Savarkar, Bose/Gandhi - all involved themselves in the war effort.

Gandhi made a virtue of a 'demilitarized' nation and fought back with what he had while also working on social reform. Without the latter it would be a completely broken nation that would emerge - we needed both. The assimilation failed in the case of the radical islamists - due to Jinnah and Ali brothers (though Maulana Azad came over ot the Congress) - but overall he was quite successful.

Are we the only nation that disses its leaders for any and every fault, maybe even invents some; but hardly ever recognize their positives? We have Gandhi hate, Nehru hate, Savarkar hate, Bose hate groups; 'official' historians consider 1857 a non-event and ignore INA, and in return others consider the congress efforts as useless.


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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ManjaM » 26 Jul 2012 03:09

Seems like the best solution for Hindus in sensitive areas is to get some arms training, get a double barrel and get organized into security committees. If even the police are protecting illegal immigrants, how can the entire government setup be trusted?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby kshatriya » 26 Jul 2012 04:01

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/how-a ... 120725.htm

How a sex worker helped thwart a terror strike

A sex worker may have inadvertently prevented a major disaster at the Chinnaswamy Stadium in Bengaluru

In a revised chargesheet, the Bengaluru police has stated that minutes before Indian Mujahideen [ Images ] operative Mohammad Qateeel Siddiqui could plant a bomb at the Chinnaswamy Stadium, he came in contact with a sex worker, who distracted him and he ended up connecting the wires of the bomb in a wrong manner. :eek:

Siddiqui was later picked up by the police and sent to the Yerawada prison in Pune in connection with another case. He was recently killed inside the prison.

According to the Bangalore police, Siddiqui went to the Chinnaswamy Stadium along with IM operative Yasin Bhatkal to plant the bomb. He spotted a sex worker there and considered approaching her. He decided to plant the bomb and then go after her.

After planting the bomb, Siddiqui started looking for the sex worker. While the rest of the IM operatives fled the scene, he took an auto and kept looking for her.
:eek: He joined the rest of his associates an hour later.

The Bangalore police learnt these details from his interrogation, while he was still in their custody.

According to investigators, the IM had aimed to kill nearly a 100 people. Siddiqui was the key operative as he was entrusted with the task of planting the bomb at the main gate of the stadium. But the bomb did not go off as planned and the terror strike was botched.

Had Siddiqui planted the bomb properly, the destruction would have been massive, said the police.
Last edited by kshatriya on 26 Jul 2012 07:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Hari Seldon » 26 Jul 2012 06:29

The Asom riots might just be the wake up call legal Indian citizens (of whatever religious denominay\tion) needed in the NE. I can very well see xtians in Mehalaya, Mizoram and Nagaland hardening their stance and hearts just as much as tribal folks in Arunachal or Tripura would wannado. Whether the dself-preservation instinct has survived at all in the dying numbers of NE yindooze is still an open (and increasingly pessimistic) question though...

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby tejas » 26 Jul 2012 07:59

After a long time I brought myself to this thread as I purposely wanted to remain ignorant of events in Assam as I had a sneaking suspicion as to what was happening. If you read the mainstream English press from India you would have no idea what was going on. What is the use of spending money on nuclear weapons and expensive European fighters when you have Kangress/Communist traitors who willingly allow a muslim demographic invasion that will hollow India out from the inside? :cry: :cry: These fu@#ers deserve a bullet between the eyes not voter cards and NREG money. If people continue to vote Kangress India will no longer be a nation state in 50 years. The barbarians will have brought down one of the planets most ancient civilizations with abundant inside help. I hang my head in shame, sadness and impotent anger.

For evil to win all that is needed is for good men to do nothing. The genocide that Islam has already unleashed on India has been swept under the carpet
by the leftist imbeciles who write India's text books. History can't help but repeat itself with a treasonous dynasty running the govt and a sheep like ignorant population given the right to vote.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Skanda » 26 Jul 2012 08:30

Bangladeshi Infiltration and 2012 Asom Riots

Very detailed article on the Assam rioting/vandalism/murder

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby kshatriya » 26 Jul 2012 09:19

Skanda wrote:Bangladeshi Infiltration and 2012 Asom Riots

Very detailed article on the Assam rioting/vandalism/murder


Looking at the Map , If Kokrajhar falls, NE India will be completely cut off from ROI. The adjoining district is already Bangla majority

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 26 Jul 2012 09:19

viv wrote:Varunji: the people were demilitarized post 1857. The revolutionaries were far and few between as it was not easy to acquire weapons. It was to get the modern, both individual and organized (army/airforce) fighting know-how that Savarkar, Bose/Gandhi - all involved themselves in the war effort.


OT mostly , but sorry: there were continued militant resistance almost continuously - maybe not to the scale of 1857, but there still were. Birsa was fighting until 1900. In 1905, long before MKG made his mark in SA with some help from American media and internal factional fights in Westminster, there was a successful [albeit temporarily] civil disobedience movement in Bengal. Within two years of that - and even if we dismiss Khudiram Bose's attempts at kiddies play and "sporadic and far between", a whole bunch of people - including pulin Das of Dhaka Anushilan Samity had become so powerful that they had to be deported to Andaman. By 1910, Dhaka Anushilan had become a thorough nuisance in delicate British and their collaborator Indian sides.

There was no gap or "sporadic" militancy: we think so because we grow up on an INC hagiography diet where only MKG and JLN gifted us independence. One can be ignorant of others' efforts and their nuisance value for the Brits, but there is no need to insult their memory and contributions by repeating the monolithic lie of INC about how Indian independence was achieved - in the mythical peaceful non-militant way.

Gandhi made a virtue of a 'demilitarized' nation and fought back with what he had while also working on social reform. Without the latter it would be a completely broken nation that would emerge - we needed both. The assimilation failed in the case of the radical islamists - due to Jinnah and Ali brothers (though Maulana Azad came over ot the Congress) - but overall he was quite successful.


OT again : but MKG's stance on war-efforts are hilarious. He denies each and every logic he himself used to condemn the Indian insurrectionists - in his pamphlet urging Indian youth to recruit to shed blood for the Brits masters in WWI. The doc exists in public domain. Please mention in some other thread what effect he had on "social reform" - especially those reforms without which we ould not become a "nation". Even if you ignore pre-Gandhiji Indian voices who defined what Indian nationhood was, and that it already existed - MKG's writings from 1919 onwards contains ample acknowledgment that India was already a nation - not that this yet-to-be-born nation was waiting for MKG to shape it up.

Unfortunately for Nehruvian hagiography and mystification of history - MKG's policy failed spectacularly in the first mass-movement attempt - the 1921-24 phase, when the khilafat pampering led to the Moplah Islamism. At this period, Jinnah was against the radicals. Moreover, MKG could be credited as having been the sole stubborn voice who insisted on using the khilafat movement against warnings from others - and actually helping to bring into open politics people who would later become the stalwarts of Islamic genocide - for example people like Suhrawardy. In that sense the political legitimization of "radical islamists" was first started by MKG.

Are we the only nation that disses its leaders for any and every fault, maybe even invents some; but hardly ever recognize their positives? We have Gandhi hate, Nehru hate, Savarkar hate, Bose hate groups; 'official' historians consider 1857 a non-event and ignore INA, and in return others consider the congress efforts as useless.


There are enough data points - as shown in discussions many times on the pages of this forum - on the Partition thread and others in GDF, of the role played by "congrez efforts" in the murky days of power transfer phase from 1946-50. Time and again - one way or the other, their "efforts" in reality and on ground, turn to be the initiator, patron and protector of the political empowerment of radical Islamism - in a perfectly complementary way to what the Brits were attempting. When we talk about open biases - and discriminatory steps and statements from the top boss of INC during Partition, regarding treatment to be meted out to two communities [ on record] for the same alleged misdeeds - you can dismiss it as "hate", but some of us look at it as discussing "facts" and not "hate".

From JLN's highly biased and callous statements of discrimination between Hindu-Bengalees and Bihari-Muslims during the partition riots, the INC virtual policy on ground has been to suppress and deny or whitewash Islamist violence and atrocities on non-Muslims, while no punches spared for non-Muslim violence or atrocities. The net result has been a virtual patronage of the theological institutional framework that promotes islamism, often under the guise of culture and religious belief - to the point that no state admin dares even intervene against Muslim moves. This political and militant empowerment could have only happened under that continuation of JLN policy, the results of which we reaped in Jammu and Kashmir, or in Mumbai, or in Karnataka, or in Kerala, or in WB, or in UP, or in NE.

Since we are discussing internal security - let us not forget that historical sequence that has led us here.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Dilbu » 26 Jul 2012 10:07

Will the BD border be fenced and monitored like TSP border atleast after this riot? I am not very hopeful.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Hari Seldon » 26 Jul 2012 10:08

From twitter @ScorpiusMaximus

>>"At Magurmary High School, the violence has brought Bodos, Adivasis, Nepalis and Bengalis together like never before"-The Hindu.
>>"For, they have a common enemy in the invaders who made them flee their homes"- The Hindu does not name them, but its quite obvious.
>>"Of the 27 camps in Kokrajhar, 21 are being used by Bodos and five by Muslims"- The Hindu.
>>" Of the 33,517 people residing in these camps, 26,117 are Bodos, 5,700 Muslim and 1,700 others"- The Hindu

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Atri » 26 Jul 2012 16:16

del
Last edited by Atri on 27 Jul 2012 06:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 26 Jul 2012 16:26

^^ 2008 visual, saar...not current one.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshhan » 26 Jul 2012 17:30

Dilbu wrote:Will the BD border be fenced and monitored like TSP border atleast after this riot? I am not very hopeful.


If and ever Hindus get militarized, this fence would prove to be a double edged sword. After all these bangladeshis/islamists need to go back to their homeland and this fence would only make the task more diificult.

Secondly now the situation in NE and many other parts of India has already deteriorated to the point that where fence or lack of fence will not make any difference.The writing is clear on the wall. If dharmics do not or cannot warriorize and militarize, the game is over for them.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 26 Jul 2012 18:48

^^ The irony is that the it took the true face of the "illegal minority migrants" to make the bodos (who were fighting against the IA and the Indian state till now) and with other tribes and non-BDs like Nepalis to join hands to avoid being decimated by the power of the across-the-border faithful.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_20036 » 26 Jul 2012 19:00

Today some b*sst*rd urdu newspaper showed some interview about narendra modi picking small line from it and going hyper. All news channel are showing it with nice analysis and all have forgotten about muslim violence in assam.
It is clear case of diverting the attention. The entire media . Since the media attention was towards congress wrongdoing,now everything seems to be normal.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 26 Jul 2012 19:35

Slowly dharmics are uniting. However, it is too late for certain states like Assam because the gov machinery is working against us. Kerala and UP will be next. We wont wake up until we are completely against the wall.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 26 Jul 2012 19:55

RoyG wrote:Slowly dharmics are uniting. However, it is too late for certain states like Assam because the gov machinery is working against us. Kerala and UP will be next. We wont wake up until we are completely against the wall.

Completely agree...though i feel the WB domino will fall before UP comes along. ( Kerala will definitely be the next in line after Assam, no doubt in that IMHO)

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby RoyG » 26 Jul 2012 20:05

Sagarika Ghose obviously feeling the heat from "internet hindus" on twitter....

"Assam's complex sociological profile, mosaic of identities,land disputes are being pushed into a religious narritive by Internet hindus"

"In complex ethnic cauldron of Assam, internet Hindus are craving"hindu" equivalent of Gujarat riots as desperately as diabetic craves sweet"

and my favorite...enjoy!

"S Kabilan: not illegal immigration thats created the problem, but migration from the rest of the country that has led to ethnic multiplicity" :lol:

http://twitter.com/sagarikaghose/

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshhan » 26 Jul 2012 20:56

^^ Sagarika Ghose is lucky. The day these "internet hindus" become "Combat Hindus" she will have lot of trouble on her hands. Till then she can make up all the stories that she wants.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshhan » 26 Jul 2012 21:15

RoyG wrote:Slowly dharmics are uniting.


Which is a must by now.

Ironically the very same bodos(the bodo outfits) who are currently locked in a bitter struggle with Bangladeshi Islamists , were not above board when it came to attacking their fellow Hindus from UP, Bihar and WB. I can only hope that they have realised their folly now.

And indeed the situation is becoming critical in many other parts of India wrt Islam. Western UP is facing a tremendous challenge. Bareilly has recently seen riots when Islamists objected to Hindu Pilgrims(Shivbhakts). A few days back the same situation was present in Kosi Kalan(near Mathura-Birthplace of Lord Krishna). In Kerala a ABVP leader was murdered. In Hyderabad owaisi openly abuses our religion. In Mysore a young Hindu girl was accosted and thrown out of train by three islamists. I will not even talk about West Bengal. All these acts point to one and only thing. That islamists are feeling emboldened enough under the rule of INC(and other politicians) to inflict pain on Dharmics. If even now we do not get united, then rest be assured 10 years from now, our womenfolk will not be able to venture outside of our homes.

During the American war of freedom, when Americans were fighting British Benjamin Franklin gave a quote which is very much applicable today in our context.

"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ManjaM » 26 Jul 2012 21:20

darshhan wrote:
RoyG wrote:Slowly dharmics are uniting.

.
...

"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."


RSS for all the criticism it gets, deserved and undeserved, realised this a long time ago. That is why it continues to focus on Sanghatana more than anything else. There is no other way than to organize.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_23629 » 26 Jul 2012 22:34

darshhan wrote:^^ Sagarika Ghose is lucky. The day these "internet hindus" become "Combat Hindus" she will have lot of trouble on her hands. Till then she can make up all the stories that she wants.


The cockiness of these self-claimed "leftist liberals" is because they know that currently the Hindus lack the fundamentalism or boldness to inflict any pain on them. The day some Hindu gets up and slaps one of them in a public gathering, they will begin to watch their mouths. These are essentially champagne liberals, the spoilt brats of Westernized elites. They never had to struggle in life (they are successful because of their parent's influence and resources) and have no stomach for absorbing any pain.

Shabana Azmi's crusade vanished when on TV a mullah called her "nachne gaane walee aurat." Since then she comments strictly on Hindu society but never on Muslim issues. (Same with Amir Khan on Satyamev Jayate.) The same will happen to these Hindu leftists like Pagalika Ghost -- the day a Hindu gets aggressive with them, they will tuck their tails.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vishvak » 26 Jul 2012 23:37

RoyG wrote:Sagarika Ghose obviously feeling the heat from "internet hindus" on twitter....

"Assam's complex sociological profile, mosaic of identities,land disputes are being pushed into a religious narritive by Internet hindus"

"In complex ethnic cauldron of Assam, internet Hindus are craving"hindu" equivalent of Gujarat riots as desperately as diabetic craves sweet"

and my favorite...enjoy!

"S Kabilan: not illegal immigration thats created the problem, but migration from the rest of the country that has led to ethnic multiplicity" :lol:

http://twitter.com/sagarikaghose/

Is it not punishable to ignore directives of the Supreme Court of India, and then blame something else for that? The media personnel is just randomly mentioning Gujrat riots instead of external aggression, incorrectly identifying messengers instead of infiltration riots as disease! So much of ado after abdicating responsibilities to mention cause correctly and inhumanely ignoring plight of fellow countrymen!

The media is openly talking against observations of the Supreme Court of India!! link Is this not plain illegal?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 27 Jul 2012 00:26

On version of how things were dealt with to start with in Assam in 1947:

http://bengalvoice.wordpress.com/tag/sylhet/
First, the referendum in Sylhet. Sylhet, the proper Bangla name of which was Srihotto, lies along the foot of the Khasi and Jaintia hills of the present-day Indian state of Meghalaya, the North Cachar and Mikir Hills of Assam, and the hills of the Indian state of Tripura. The rain-laden south-east monsoon winds get their first hit on these hills after cruising up from the Bay of Bengal over the low plains of present-day Bangladesh, and consequently it rains very heavily in these parts all the year round. All that water then runs down Sylhet district and out through the Meghna River, while in the process creating huge water bodies known as Haors – so huge that the boatmen crossing them have to navigate by the position of stars. This feature had given Sylhet a seafaring tradition despite being far away from the sea, and it translated itself into an adventurousness not known among many Bengalis from other Bangla-speaking parts of the country.

The district, even at the time of partition, was a rich one in mineral and agricultural produce, with tea estates along the Tripura foothills and a cement plant at Chhatak, run with limestone and coal from the Khasi Hills. Later on abundant reserves of Natural Gas were discovered. The density of population was however, much more than that in the Brahmaputra valley.

Consequently, several things happened. First, unlike in other parts, Muslims in this district took to liberal education. Secondly, they emigrated in large numbers to different parts of the globe (today parts around Canary Wharf, especially Brick Lane, in the Docklands of London are inhabited entirely by Sylheti Muslims), in the process developing a catholicity of outlook which gave the district a much better tradition of Hindu-Muslim amity than other parts. Thirdly the Sylhetis, particularly the Hindus among them, managed to get a disproportionately large share in the state machinery of Assam.

The reason for this is very interesting. The province of Assam in the British days consisted of three parts – the Assamese-speaking Brahmaputra valley, the Bangla-speaking Surma valley (synonymous with Sylhet) and the hill districts. The people in the hills kept pretty much to themselves and seldom ventured out of the hills. The Brahmaputra valley was relatively thinly populated as compared to Sylhet, and extremely rich in natural resources, such as a very fertile soil, abundant forest wealth, tea plantations and the only proven deposit of oil discovered upto the tiime of independence. The people therefore became quite affluent, and naturally rather less inclined towards Government Service. In fact the state of the valley attracted settlers from elsewhere, mainly land-hungry Muslim agriculturists from East Bengal. This was further encouraged by a conscious policy of Muslimisation of the valley followed during the rule of Premier Mohammed Saadullah. The bloody ethnic strife that plagued the valley in the nineteen-eighties was the result of this Muslimisation half-a century ago. That, however, is a different story. Readers interested in this aspect of history of the subcontinent are referred to Sanjoy Hazarika’s book, ‘Rites of Passage’[8].

It is this affluence of the Assamese from the Brahmaputra valley and the consequent disinclination towards Government Service that was responsible for the dominance of Sylhetis from the Surma valley in the Assam government during British rule. In India service in the government has always been equated with power, and there was no exception here. With their domination of the government the Sylhetis became powerful, and flaunted their superiority over the Assamese from the Brahmaputra valley. This was, naturally, not liked by the Assamease, nor by the Assam Congress which was dominated by Assamese-speaking leaders led by Gopinath Bardoloi, then the Premier and the first Chief Minister of the state after independence.

There never was any talk of partitioning Assam, a Hindu-majority province with a large tribal population, some of whom were Christian, some Hindu, and the rest following their traditional religions. However, as a result of Sylhet district being Bangla-speaking, marginally Muslim majority, and contiguous to the Muslim majority districts of Mymensingh and Tipperah of East Bengal, it was declared in the Statement made by His Majesty’s Government on June 3, 1947 that a referendum would be held in the district to determine whether the people wished to go to Pakistan or to India. A similar referendum was also held in the North-West Frontier Province. It should be noted that the critical factor in opting for these referendums was contiguity to the land mass which would later become Pakistan. There were other Muslim-dominated districts or parts of districts in the country, such as Bahraich or Moradabad in the United Provinces or Calicut in Madras Presidency, but nobody ever dreamt of such districts going to Pakistan.

Now, there was a strange catch in the whole process. The Assam Congress, led by Gopinath Bardoloi and his group, wanted the district to go to Pakistan so that the hegemony of their group would be assured in the rump province of Assam after independence. Maulana Azad obliquely acknowledges this when he says, in the context of the ‘grouping plan’ of the Cabinet Mission, that the objection to the plan within the Congress came from certain leaders from Assam who ‘were possessed by an inexplicable fear of Bengalis’[9].

To be fair to Bardoloi, this is not quite correct. In all probability Bardoloi was more afraid of Muslim domination of the province (which Maulana Azad would, understandably, be chary of mentioning) rather than Bengali domination, and not without reason. He had seen with his own eyes what Saadullah had done to his province, and correctly apprehended that verysoon the sparsely populated Brahmaputra valley would be overrun by land-hungry Muslims from East Bengal who would be encouraged by their Sylheti co-religionists.
This was not an impossibility, and the result would have been loss of Assam for India. Debdas Ghosal[10], who spent his childhood at their Zamindari at Ramharir Char, near Goalpara town, Assam, still shudders when he remembers the gestures made by their Muslim peasants agitating for inclusion of the district in Pakistan. Although there never was any question of Goalpara going to Pakistan, it was a border district with a large Muslim minority, and the Muslim League decided to show their might even here to intimidate the Hindus. To do that they got the peasants to go around all over the Ghosal estate, with freshly-severed cows’ heads on stakes dripping blood, shouting ‘Allahu Akbar, Ladke Lenge Pakistan’. Bardoloi’s fears, therefore were quite justified. His great mistake was that he decided to throw away the baby with the bath-water, without sparing a thought for the Hindus of Sylhet.

The League of course wanted the district in Pakistan. This issue thus became one of the rarest things in those days in which the League and the official leadership of the Congress cooperated, albeit covertly. This is doubly remarkable because of the fact that in spite of the district being Muslim-majority, the League was not confident of a victory here[11]. The position was however substantially altered when the Assam Congress came forward to help the League, albeit largely through inaction.


This they did in several ways. First, the provincial leadership refused to extend any substantial help in the form of money, men, propaganda material or even moral support to the district leadership. Secondly, they connived with the League in disenfranchising the tea estate labourers on the grounds that they were not Sylhetis, or ‘sons of the soil’. These tea estate labourers were mostly ‘indentured labour’ from among the hardy people of the tribal areas of Bihar (now Jharkhand), and had been living on the gardens for at least two generations. There was therefore no reason why they should not vote, but in effect they were not allowed to do so. For the record it appears that the Congress did claim that the voters in the Labour and the Trade and Commerce constituencies – meaning mainly the tea labour – should be allowed to vote, but no effort was put in to carry through this very reasonable demand, and the demand failed. The district leadership of the Congress of course raised holy hell, but they had no access to the all-India leaders. The result, finally, was that the voting was done in the General, Mohammedan and Indian Christian categories[12]. A third method was physically preventing the Hindus from voting, with the state machinery looking the other way. Subodh Lal Shome[13] recalls that roadblocks had been erected by the Muslim League volunteers at a number of places in the rural areas around Chhatak to prevent Hindus from travelling to the nearest town to vote, and the Congress government of Bardoloi did nothing to ensure a free and fair election. A Hindu police officer by the name of Purkayastha took it upon himself to intervene and remove these without orders and even resorted to firing. However very few officers were capable of such daring.

The indefatigable Syama Prasad Mookerjee entered the fray, toured the district, and persuaded Hindu Sylhetis all over Bengal to travel to Sylhet and vote at the referendum. Some of them came from as far away as Delhi and Burma. It is believed that because of their different culture, a section of the Muslim population also voted for India ; and had there been a little effort on the part of the Assam Congress, the district would not have been lost to India.. Ultimately however, the disenfranchisement tipped the scales. Sylhet went to Pakistan, with a relatively thin majority, 239,619 to 184,041[14]. Only three thanas, namely Ratabari, Patharkandi, Badarpur and a part of Karimganj thana remained in India.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 27 Jul 2012 00:52

Anindita Dasgupta, in Contemporary South Asia, (Vol 10, Issue 3, 2001, pp 343-360) wrote an article entitled "Denial and resistance: Sylheti Partition 'refugees' in Assam". According to the author's own summarization, she uses the "Partition narratives of Sylheti bhodrolok refugees from East Bengal" to show that these people were displaced without experiencing direct violence or violent expulsions. Based primarily on personal accounts, using memories as well as local postcolonial texts, it tries to shed some light on a category of migrants so far marginalized in Partition historiography. "The attempt here is not to point out the great inconsistencies between Partition theory and reality, but to try and identify what was 'local' about the migration to Assam. Broadly, the paper argues that 'refugee-hood' continues to be a far more pluralistic experience than assumed by popular, even academic conceptions, and it is this plurality that is in urgent need of further exploration."

This is the prevalent p-sec political project. Note that the very reliability of personal accounts, using "memories", is lambasted otherwise - if such memories go against claims of Islamic peaceful approaches [Gyanendra pandey's questioing of punjab Partition narratives, for example]. People deny the possibility of voluntary suppression of traumatic memory when it comes to absence of condemning stories against Muslims - in that case the demand is that personal accounts do not show "that high a trauma" because trauma was not really there.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ShibaPJ » 27 Jul 2012 01:33

I am breaking from my lurking mode to check, if there are any genuine relief or rehabilitation funds being collected for Assam riot-hit Hindustanis. I feel a lot of impotent rage with the images and news filtering out of the affected people, despite the best efforts of GoI machinery to suppress the news of near-genocidal attacks by the illegal B'Deshis. I think, the next logical step is to unite the Hindus to safeguard themselves and take the fight to the RoP, but to start with the baby steps, is there a fund to which we can contribute to help any organized efforts?

Thanks in advance..

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Prem » 27 Jul 2012 02:50

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000087 ... lenews_wsj
Quotas Won't Help India's Muslims The future of the world's largest democracy hinges on how well it integrates its biggest minority

India's Supreme Court is this week reviewing whether Muslims deserve affirmative action, and this has once again ignited a debate on how the world's largest democracy treats its biggest minority. India's left-leaning intelligentsia has already made up its mind, insisting on viewing the 175-million strong Muslim population through a prism of permanent victimhood. Righteous television anchors self-flagellate about the alleged discrimination faced by Muslims in day-to-day life, while earnest reporters dig up evidence the country doesn't measure up to its secularist ideals.Whether the Muslim community is well-integrated and productive or marginalized and resentful is truly one of the big questions on which the country's future hinges. But their diagnosis is off the mark. And their favorite solution, to offer so-called reservations for Muslims in schools and jobs, betrays a dangerous ignorance of history.Though these are hardly facts to be proud of, they miss the forest for the trees. Take demographics, arguably the ultimate marker of a community's well-being. Between 1961 and 2001, India's Muslims' share of the population rose to 13.6% from 10.7%. According to a 2009 Pew Foundation report, that number has since increased to about 15%. In contrast, both Pakistan and Bangladesh have seen an outflow of religious minorities, including persecuted minority Muslim sects, and a sharp decline in their populations since independence. Warts and all, India remains the most attractive place to work and live in South Asia.Indian Muslims regularly occupy the top rungs of politics, journalism, business and the military. About a decade ago, India's first citizen (then-President Abdul Kalam) and richest man (Wipro's Azim Premji) were both Muslim.As for riots, for the most part, the country has moved on. Quotas, on the other hand, will be divisive. For Muslims, they will reinforce a sense of separateness. For majority Hindus, they will stoke resentment. India's culture wars started in the 1980s in part because former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi provided Muslim men exceptional marriage rights (by denying divorced women alimony). They culminated in the demolition of a mosque in Ayodhya and nationwide riots in 1992-93.he Supreme Court should not repeat that mistake, and it should also bear in mind two occasions from further back in history. In the 1920s, Mohandas Gandhi's shortsighted attempt to mobilize Muslims against the British by demanding the restoration of Turkey's Caliphate sowed the seeds of partition (one reason Indian Muslims are predominantly poor is that many of the upper and middle classes migrated to Pakistan). In the 1950s, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru's failure to reform regressive Muslim personal laws—when Parliament rightly banned practices such as polygamy among Hindus—did the community no favors either. On all these occasions, the political class blundered by viewing the community through the prism of faith rather than nationality. Muslims are Indians and the best way for India to integrate them is to strive to treat them as individuals, not members of a group. Indians disregard this commonsense notion at their own peril.This means stressing equality of opportunity rather than equality of outcomes. Better schools in Muslim-majority districts, along with privately endowed fellowships for bright students from Muslim-dominated schools (but open to all), are a start. Longer term, Muslim leaders must address issues such as attitudes toward female education that keep the community backward. But the crude fix of quotas may create more problems than it solves.


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