This is what is being planned:brihaspati wrote: One needs to keep an eye and ear close to the ground and connections/interfaces to points within the Muslim networks to understand on what long term goal their leadership is moving..
Why are you not sure abut why it is "missing"? Why does it become impossible to expose the fundamentalists among Islamists? Our political leadership is supposed to have been seasoned in a long crucible of anti-imperialist struggle. Over 100 years of playing politics, isnt it? So if such a seasoned bunch is not doing the "exposing", never did so - except attack those individuals who were also competing for personal power - but never attacked the ideological and institutional basis of fundamentalism in the Muslim, there must be a reason, isn it?viv wrote:Bj,
Doesnt that then mean that one must not fall into the trap of x vs y? but, rather expose the fundamentalist - exactly as now when they have shown their hand. Folks stating Hindu vs Muslim on this thread are doing what the divisionist fundamentalists want. A clear division helps with the building of enclaves that you warn about.
Certainly the govt must act firmly and that is what is missing so far. I'm not sure why it is missing across all states. That is the weakest link.
sum wrote:^^ Wow, never imagined that things would go downhill so fast within such a short time.
I was expecting the Caliphate to start showing signs within next decade but seems like we are on a accelerated path.
Local newspapers have letters to editor mentioning about how friends of the readers have been physically manhandled and even the girls have been given explicit threats by large groups of men ( of certain commuity, of course). So, all this BS about "no clue why rumours are working" is just secular DDM hogwash to ensure that the patience of the majority does not snap ( am sure it is slowly reaching tipping point with such shenanigans)
"Better early than late, better late than never," they say. In this case, it's "best never (that the Pakistaniyat shows itself), but better early than later." It could be a good thing that they showed their hand now, rather than later, when the demographics would be so much more on their side. We need to make the best use of the fortuitous early warning we've got. I'm inclined to think that they jumped the gun and revealed more than they were ready for. Maybe that's why the Raza academy is back-pedaling, saying "we don't endorse violence" and all that other soothing stuff.devesh wrote: yes, I never anticipated this kind of a timeline. I still thought we had at least 5-10 more years to go before Assam and Kerala started showing signs of all out Pakistaniyat. and this kind of countrywide mobilization I certainly did not believe the Islamics were capable of at this point. I severely underestimated the networking capabilities of the Jihadis.
the theoretical mathematicians, instead of drooling over topology and mapping in the Cosmology area, should apply network theories to sociology and mass behavior. specifically, geographic mapping schemes of critical nodes based on activity patterns of concerned groups. they could actually do something constructive for once. sorry for that comment if it offends anybody. have had some cranky interactions with those guys in the past few weeks.
Hey, you forgot us militant Jain monks. Especially violent during the ongoing Paryushan Parva.Venkarl wrote:We now have a new addition--"Buddhist Radicals" to the list of Saffron Terrorists, RSS Goons, VHP Vandals, Trishul Weilding Shiv Shainiks etc...
Same DDM called Kasab and his party as Gunmen or Pakistani Terrorists/Militants....no balls to call them Islamic Terrorists/Radicals?
My wife taught in a Muslim minority school for a couple of years, and she came to the same conclusion -- they are cowards who seek safety in numbers but are scared when they are alone. They are essentially bullies who prey on those they percieve as soft and weak but collapse against those who can hit back. Notice how the Muslims collapsed in front of the Sikhs, Marathas and the British. They were licking their boots.SamG wrote:Victor,these 15% show balls only because of kangress.I know from my personal experience that these people are more wussies than us,trust me. They exert because they know that they can get away using Minority card. Remove the notion that Hindus are weakling.I think that this has to do more with politics than religion here.I sense Kangress haath all over.Victor wrote:Now SMS threats in Mumbai, Pune, Nashik also accompanied by large exodus. My guess is Delhi, Kolkata are next. I'm trying to figure out what exactly the peaceful will gain from this but I must say I'm impressed. 15% with balls holding 80% wusses hostage with ease. Hindus will not be able to replicate this level of coordinated nation-wide action for several decades yet.
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Prepare for worst in every sense and resolve to solve the the riddle by cutting the core of Knot . OTOH, follow the advise of Great Chacha and Mahatma to Hindus and Sikhs in 47 to welcome the slaughter ,rape and loot.Vishal_Bhatia wrote:brihaspati-ji, ramana-ji, and others
What is it that we can do? Or, what is it that I can do to fight the Mullahcracy?
Bingo.varunkumar wrote:My wife taught in a Muslim minority school for a couple of years, and she came to the same conclusion -- they are cowards who seek safety in numbers but are scared when they are alone. They are essentially bullies who prey on those they percieve as soft and weak but collapse against those who can hit back. Notice how the Muslims collapsed in front of the Sikhs, Marathas and the British. They were licking their boots.
Much of the current trouble has been caused and exacerbated because the Muslims vote as a bloc in most cases, forming a much more useful vote-bank than the divided Hindus. If Hindus start voting as a bloc, for people who promise to protect the community, instead of quibbling amongst themselves over caste and regional differences, the Muslim vote bank will suddenly appear smaller and less necessary to be appeased. If this doesn't happen, things will continue to deteriorate as they are now.Vishal_Bhatia wrote:brihaspati-ji, ramana-ji, and others
What is it that we can do? Or, what is it that I can do to fight the Mullahcracy?
If your feeling is that, "trains are running late, bring in the Army; traffic policemen are not able to manage the traffic, let us bring in Military Police", then there is no point in debating this point again and again. Because I feel the other way. There is a distinct job for the police, there is a distinct job for the Army. And if civil administration wants Army help (especially in open riots), there are laid down procedures for requesting it.vera_k wrote:Whether exodus or riots, the perpetrators are able to meet their goal of ethnic cleansing. Can police forces stop this type of ethnic cleansing?
If we do this, then we are pretty much stating that each Indian can only be protected by folks from his own community/state. Tomorrow a Muslim can say that he would only get justice if his case is investigated by Muslim police men. X'ians can follow suit. Police force of any state would be 99% staffed from folks from that state. How ever what should be expected of the police (of any state) is that they would give adequate protection to all people in their jurisdiction.How many people in Karnataka police are of Northeast origin?
. .Of course. But were are today's Sikhs, Marathas and British? Or Ahoms for that matter (check "NDA, Borphukan").varunkumar wrote:-- they are cowards who seek safety in numbers but are scared when they are alone. They are essentially bullies who prey on those they percieve as soft and weak but collapse against those who can hit back. Notice how the Muslims collapsed in front of the Sikhs, Marathas and the British. They were licking their boots.
20,000 - 50,000 is hardly reinforcement when we are talking 30-50 lakh BDs. And the people going back are from all NE states, not just Assam. No, this is a very well planned operation to make the NE feel that India does not care for them, a sentiment that is unfortunately very easy to capitalize on. It is a similar strategy that was used by the illegal Muslim immigrants to chase away the "outsiders" from Assam by pinning the blame on the Assamese. Then, the Biharis who had worked menial jobs in Assam for generations were replaced by Bangladeshis. The government and media duly played along.Venkarl wrote:What if this exodus turns out to be a reinforcements back in NE states against BD Moslem Immigrants?
How do you mean "stand by"? The Biharis have always been and still are a peaceful part of the fabric of Assamese society. The ordinary Assamese were clueless about what was happening and only the intelligentsia caught on. Much like the recent events, there were only a very few isolated events but those were enough because they were blown up in the press. There were telltale signs of BD involvement, like cutting of throats etc, which locals tend not to indulge in. There are still many Biharis in Assam but mainly in towns. They no longer congregate in isolated villages. The Biharis don't compete with the Assamese for land (they don't farm) or labour (Assamese don't do menial labour). The BDs do compete with them on labor and with the Assamese on land.SRoy wrote:^^
Victor,
Did the native Assamese stand by the Bihari labourers that served there for generations?
Some of these Sikhs are my friends and we used to joke with military Sikhs who were stunned to see these ch**ki looking guys with turbans, one hair on their chin and not a single word of Punjabi. Similarly, Marwaris have lived and thrived in Assam for generations with many "becoming Assamese" because of physical isolation. A prominent family has the name of Agarwala with none of its members speaking anything other than Assamese (and English now).following is the extract i have taken frm the north east tribune
Who says one has to know Punjabi or bhangra to be called a Sikh? Here is this community in Assam, which enjoys doing Bihu, has no knowledge of Punjabi language or culture yet follows Sikh teachings with rigidity, which is no way less than the Sikhs in Punjab. Displaced from their place of origin centuries ago, this community of Assamese Sikhs living in a remote area of Nowgoan district are often dubbed and ridiculed by their counterparts here as 'second-class Sikhs'.
A whopping number of about 10,000 Assamese Sikhs are mainly concentrated in Nowgaon district. Their turbans may not go well with their Mongoloid features and sparse beards, and may even fetch them belittling remarks from other Sikhs yet they remain a proud race. "Our forefathers came to Assam centuries ago to rescue the Assamese people from foreign invasion and that makes us feel proud. As far as our religion is concerned, we have been following it with utmost devotion," says one of the Assamese Sikhs, voicing the general sentiment of his community.
And these Sikhs don’t feel nostalgic about being away from Punjab, its culture and its people. "We are Assamese who are following the Sikh religion. We have adopted this place as our own, as we have been living here for generations."
So let not appearances throw you off gear as you enter the house of one of these families. You are not likely to be greeted with a glass of water or soft drink but with a sarai containing betel nut and paan — the traditional offering made by the Assamese. Even the lady of the house looks like just any other Assamese married women — adorned with sindoor and clad in mekhla – chaddar, the traditional Assamese dress — till your eyes rest on the tiny kirpan tucked under the chaddar
Exactly my thoughts...the entire NE is going to turn into a bigger tinderbox than it is now in the days to come, all thanks to the myopic of a certain party to earn votes and retain power irrespective of whichever country citizen votes for them.Venkarl wrote:Thanks Victor. Trying to foresee what are the possibilities. 20,000-50,000 frustrated NE folks going back to NE is not to be taken lightly IMO. There is a deliberate planning of civil war in NE. Kamarupa will soon be up in flames.
Do you think every individual in India can vote with as much freedom as most BRFites have the freedom to decide on whether they will have coffee or tea?Nihat wrote: Why vote the appeasers into power again and again only to suffer like this later on.
In a democracy the majority rules and if the majority is downright stupid , I don't see the sense in blaming archaic political parties at all. There is still time left for the people of assam , wake up and smell the coffee , what good is a majority if it cannot speak for itself.
In this context i wish to point to this post by Bji.prahaar wrote:Do you think every individual in India can vote with as much freedom as most BRFites have the freedom to decide on whether they will have coffee or tea?Nihat wrote: Why vote the appeasers into power again and again only to suffer like this later on.
In a democracy the majority rules and if the majority is downright stupid , I don't see the sense in blaming archaic political parties at all. There is still time left for the people of assam , wake up and smell the coffee , what good is a majority if it cannot speak for itself.
The dynamics of money power in elections and its influence on voting patterns either directly or more often indirectly by supplying capacities to wield coercive power on helpless masses ... is the most well kept secret of the "worlds largest democracy".brihaspati wrote:Let us be realistic about the voting issue. Many from the upper crusts of society tend to shout a lot about the power of "voting", and somehow election results as self-legitimizing of some representation of popular sentiments.varunkumar wrote: But this will not stop these very same Assamese from voting the Congress party to power again, the same party which does not even pretend to represent their interests but makes it very clear they are on the side of the Bangladeshi illegal immigrants. Hindus connive with their oppressors to ensure their own persecution -- so what are they complaining about now?
The ground reality will not be obvious, unless you have worked from within the political system to see how votes are really extracted, and who manages this extraction. In most cases, for a very wide area of India, geographically and demographically - the aam voter is tied to financier+politico+crminal nexus, and depend on them for their livelihood or the safety of tehir life an dlimb and their family. I know the system working from the grassroots level. Take an urban slum for example - in most cases these people are on illegally occupied land, occupied by an influential urban goonda [who might be from an illustriously civilized and advanced section of society+party+education etc], who then lets it out to slum dwellers. The bosses' party/chamcha collects rent+women+other benefits, and even provide employment and tae a cut from that employment in the name of the boss/party. The gloriously superior Raj-hangover police forces are in total cahoots with whoever ahppens tod ominate the local biz+politco+mafia scene. [Their own upper level hierarchy will have corresponding ties with corresponding outer-civilized goondas at corresponding levels].
There are ways and means to estimate how people from a zone have voted. The conseuqneces of wrong voting - that is not according to the wishes of the prevailing wind within the biz+politico+criminal network dominating that zone, can be disastrous for the people. Their livelihood may be jeopardized, or even their lives and limbs or their women. This is how it works on the ground.
Because people have no means to ensure their own physical safety - the state monopolizes all right to violence, [and of course those it tolerates as part of the criminal nexus to crry out violence according political or financial secret needs and decisions], the police still think they are kind of detached and superior Raj type lords of the people and basically help protect the existing power's interests - people cannot hit back, even through votes. But note that "existing pwoer" is actually determined by the interests of the underlying criminal+politico+financier network and not necessarily just on the party in power.
When we see regime changes through voting, its because the underlying financier+criminal nexus has decided to teach the existing regime a lesson or that they think they will gain more with a change.
Its no use lambasting Hindus or aam for voting in the wrong way. I know what I am saying could be twisted into support for extra-constitutional means. That is not what I imply. The means to change is through mass movements, civil disobedience, in such large numbers that the biz+crminal guys themselves think that it would be better to switch to this new force to stay in profiteering and hence do not combine with the state's coercive forces to crush the nascent dissent. It is the task of the elite dissenters to show the way. They know - just as they have known and used for centuries - the internal weknesses of the elite, its factions, the educational wherewithal to utilize all fissures, and the confidence of "being right" that comes with being born into elite sections.
Sigh.....the patience of the majority is reaaally being put to a test hereProtests in Lucknow after Friday prayers; media attacked: A protest march after the last Friday prayers of Ramadan today turned violent here as a group of people, shouting slogans against alleged atrocities on minorities in Assam and Myanmar, resorted to stone pelting and vandalism.
The protest march which started from near the Tile Wali Masjid created a ruckus on its way forcing business establishments to close down and vandalising parks and vehicles, a senior police official said. When the RAF and PAC tried to stop them they indulged in stone pelting damaging public properties and vehicles
Strange ....Siva G, TNN Aug 14, 2012, 03.31AM IST
VISAKHAPATNAM: In what could be a major security breach, barely hours after Indian Navy chief Nirmal Verma landed at the INS Dega in Visakhapatnam, an unidentified intruder was nabbed in the high security zone in the late hours of Sunday. This arrest comes in the wake of a red alert by the security agencies at all the airports across the country ahead of the Independence Day.
It remains a mystery as to how the unidentified 28-year-old man gained entry into the Eastern Naval Command's air station INS Dega at a time when the entry of visitors have been barred as part of the general alert, which is secluded from the main Vizag airport premises.
The INS Dega premises was thoroughly screened and checked by the security personnel by using sniffer dogs to detect any explosives after the intruder was picked up. Though no explosive material was found, the intrusion has puzzled the security wings. His answers were vague and not cohesive during interrogation by the Naval sleuths.
Sources told TOI that the intruder was fluent in Hindi and has a tattoo of Lord Hanuman on one of his hands. "He gained entry into the air station at 11.30 pm," a source said. The operations of the civilian flights close at 8 pm at the airport, which is under the surveillance of CISF jawans.
Sources said the intruder entered the area through the taxi stand linking the air station and was noticed by the quick reaction team of the Navy when he was running towards the runway.
The security personnel detained him. Source said the intruder had good physique as the security personnel had to run hard to nab him. Highly-placed sources said the CRPF personnel had noticed him earlier moving suspiciously in the civilian airport area.
Sources said the naval authorities could not extract any information from him despite hours of grilling. He mentioned Akroor sector in Kashmir which borders Pakistan during the interrogation more than once.
"When intelligence sleuths asked him he merely said he entered the INS Dega premises for food, which is unbelievable," a senior official said. He gave out several names like Suresh, Dharmendra, Siva and others when asked about his identity. At one stage he said he was heading for Mumbai from Rajasthan. "Later, he claimed he escaped from a prison as he was jailed though he had no role in a case of car theft," the official said.
The authorities are trying to establish the identity of the intruder with the particulars of two robbers who escaped from a prison in Haryana recently. The Indian Navy chief is on a farewell visit to ENC for three days.
The intruder was handed over to the local police by the Navy. The city commissioner J Poornachandra Rao said that the interrogation has started.