Internal Security Watch

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Victor » 17 Aug 2012 07:22

brihaspati wrote:One needs to keep an eye and ear close to the ground and connections/interfaces to points within the Muslim networks to understand on what long term goal their leadership is moving..

This is what is being planned:
The coming Islamic state of Mughalistan

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 17 Aug 2012 08:04

viv wrote:Bj,

Doesnt that then mean that one must not fall into the trap of x vs y? but, rather expose the fundamentalist - exactly as now when they have shown their hand. Folks stating Hindu vs Muslim on this thread are doing what the divisionist fundamentalists want. A clear division helps with the building of enclaves that you warn about.

Certainly the govt must act firmly and that is what is missing so far. I'm not sure why it is missing across all states. That is the weakest link.


Why are you not sure abut why it is "missing"? Why does it become impossible to expose the fundamentalists among Islamists? Our political leadership is supposed to have been seasoned in a long crucible of anti-imperialist struggle. Over 100 years of playing politics, isnt it? So if such a seasoned bunch is not doing the "exposing", never did so - except attack those individuals who were also competing for personal power - but never attacked the ideological and institutional basis of fundamentalism in the Muslim, there must be a reason, isn it?

I have been very close to veteran and current leaders from the left-of-centre to "centrist" in power. In private they all say that once the Muslim is faced with choosing between the "Muslim" identity and anything else, they become "uncontrollable". It was such "uncontrollab-ility" that apparently made Partition impossible to prevent, and since then it is that same fear of "uncontrollability" that makes the "secularists" concede so much. In discussions, repeatedly the "Hindu" or even the "Maoists" and sometimes the "Sikhs" are dissed as not worthy of attention - with a certain sneer and dismissive tone - for being too idealistic and philosophical. This particular political leadership pride themselves on being the only ones on Indian soil who understand how to hold on to power. They fear no other force except the Muslim and to a certain extent the "Christian" - the latter not because of their "uncontrollability", but becuase of the fear of foreign fallout.

We cannot be naive and idealistic in our application of "no-division" idealism. What the no-division rhetoric translates into in reality is that you cannot expose anything that is claimed to hurt "sentiments" of a certain community - which means you cannot make non-Muslims aware of the method and tactics by which Islamists have always proceeded on their road to power. This theory of no-division was basically a retreat and ideological defeat before the very shrewd Dantonist tatcic of the mullahcracy - who violently protested each and every critique, every exposure. Ultimately the no-division rhetoric plays into the very hands of fundamentalism.

No matter what is conceded, what is accepted, what is compromised on - the mullahcracy will never flinch from their long term goal of absolute power. Theirs is a real danger because they apparently provide the hope for any population that sees itself pushed out of competition for goodies in an increasingly knowledge based economy - by providing an alternative based on guaranteed consumption based on a more primitive, looting, agrarian and "natural physical dominance hierarchy" by which say women would be more tradeable and accessible, etc. You can shut your eyes or shut your mouth - that may seem to buy peace for the time being. But it will affect in no way the expansionist plans.

pentaiah
BRFite
Posts: 1671
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby pentaiah » 17 Aug 2012 08:08

I suspect the INC hand and as well as Foreign hand especially Iran...
If IM leadership keeps quiet by not condemning the violence, the union might become a battle ground.
As it is India is the only country not at war and has continuously having internally displaced people (Kashmir's Pundits).
All looks distraction from ME happenings for the world and put us pressure?
I just cant imagine that GOI has not come hard on the rioters (remember Kosvo Bosnia Yugo in 1990s) and what about NSA have they met are the CMs on video conference, where is HM?

Did Anna and Baba Ramdev sense this coming and got out of the way?

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 17 Aug 2012 08:12

Viv ji,
Further, "enclaves" already exist, and the cleansing process has been going on steadily. How do you think "non-divisive" approaches will reverse that process? Once an enclave forms, it specifically takes up the task of social engineering and social control. Search out - areas like Mallapuram show the highest evidence for "non-working" women. I think the district produces 12 Muslim League MLA's with two INC and two CPIM's. There are probably a few holding portfolios in the state cabinet alongside the INC ones. I could be wrong.

Share of political power in the rashtra+ghettoization+"non-working women"+alliance of a reputed "secular" brigade. Does that tell you something?

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9968
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 17 Aug 2012 08:16

^^ Wow, never imagined that things would go downhill so fast within such a short time.

I was expecting the Caliphate to start showing signs within next decade but seems like we are on a accelerated path.

Local newspapers have letters to editor mentioning about how friends of the readers have been physically manhandled and even the girls have been given explicit threats by large groups of men ( of certain commuity, of course). So, all this BS about "no clue why rumours are working" is just secular DDM hogwash to ensure that the patience of the majority does not snap ( am sure it is slowly reaching tipping point with such shenanigans)

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby devesh » 17 Aug 2012 08:25

the problem with the fanatical insistence on "highlighting fundamentalists only and not all muslims", is that we fail to realize that the fundamentalists borrow their ideology, their purpose, and their drive to crush the non-believers, from the theology itself. so, invariably, the theology has to be condemned, b/c it is the driving source of these violent memes. and lo and behold, if you condemn the theology, immediately loud voices start protesting about "condemning all muslims". so in reality, this so called "talk about fundamentalists onlee" is neither realistic nor practical, and logically unworkable. I don't care about the fake, artificial Hindu-Muslim unity that our psecs so loudly clamor for. my concern is for the Hindu and his/her culture. the defense of the Hindu is my top priority, and it is not possible without dropping the fake niceties and getting to the bottom of the issue >> the driving force of the genocidal meme.

Vishal_Bhatia
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 61
Joined: 01 May 2009 09:51

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Vishal_Bhatia » 17 Aug 2012 08:28

brihaspati-ji, ramana-ji, and others

What is it that we can do? Or, what is it that I can do to fight the Mullahcracy?

devesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby devesh » 17 Aug 2012 08:33

sum wrote:^^ Wow, never imagined that things would go downhill so fast within such a short time.

I was expecting the Caliphate to start showing signs within next decade but seems like we are on a accelerated path.

Local newspapers have letters to editor mentioning about how friends of the readers have been physically manhandled and even the girls have been given explicit threats by large groups of men ( of certain commuity, of course). So, all this BS about "no clue why rumours are working" is just secular DDM hogwash to ensure that the patience of the majority does not snap ( am sure it is slowly reaching tipping point with such shenanigans)



yes, I never anticipated this kind of a timeline. I still thought we had at least 5-10 more years to go before Assam and Kerala started showing signs of all out Pakistaniyat. and this kind of countrywide mobilization I certainly did not believe the Islamics were capable of at this point. I severely underestimated the networking capabilities of the Jihadis.

the theoretical mathematicians, instead of drooling over topology and mapping in the Cosmology area, should apply network theories to sociology and mass behavior. specifically, geographic mapping schemes of critical nodes based on activity patterns of concerned groups. they could actually do something constructive for once. sorry for that comment if it offends anybody. have had some cranky interactions with those guys in the past few weeks.

brihaspati
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12410
Joined: 19 Nov 2008 03:25

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 17 Aug 2012 08:42

Technically speaking, real-politically speaking, and tactically - there is definitely a need to disntinguish between the mullahcracy and the institutions which protect the violent expansive memes through the dissemination of classical and interpretative texts - and the common follower who has simply been born into that society.

Both are not a problem. In fact I have always got great support from Muslim women - of the more matured "matronly" variety, and on several occasions they have saved my life. I think the approach has to be multifaceted. We should force that society to face up to its treatment of women [the "Hindu" in many places should not escape the dragnet either for rhetorical beating up - starting with the over-zealous panchayats in the north] for example.

The mullahcracy has to be challenged and put on the backfoot on issues which will split that society. Women are a good starting point. Ideally a step forward in personal law reform should have been, putting a referendum to women voters onlee - on concrete questions like polygamy, alimony, divorce laws, right and duty to allow female education and work, etc. From what I know of the sub-surface tensions in many communities, female onlee referndum on these issues would trump theologians of all shades and colours.

These are political steps though. The other non-political steps are a different matter altogether and discussion cannot take place on this forum. Communicating the history of mullahcracy, the consistent pattern by which organized religiosn of this variety have practically always carried out imperialist destruction under a centralized theological institutional leadership, their history of deliberate pretension and deception in lulling the guard of intended victims - these should be spread out as much as possible among those not yet under their thrall. Put in doubt every claims by these people - in their target audience, whenevr feasible. There are plenty of resources now to get this information. It should be used.

sudarshan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2035
Joined: 09 Aug 2008 08:56

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sudarshan » 17 Aug 2012 08:50

devesh wrote:yes, I never anticipated this kind of a timeline. I still thought we had at least 5-10 more years to go before Assam and Kerala started showing signs of all out Pakistaniyat. and this kind of countrywide mobilization I certainly did not believe the Islamics were capable of at this point. I severely underestimated the networking capabilities of the Jihadis.

the theoretical mathematicians, instead of drooling over topology and mapping in the Cosmology area, should apply network theories to sociology and mass behavior. specifically, geographic mapping schemes of critical nodes based on activity patterns of concerned groups. they could actually do something constructive for once. sorry for that comment if it offends anybody. have had some cranky interactions with those guys in the past few weeks.


"Better early than late, better late than never," they say. In this case, it's "best never (that the Pakistaniyat shows itself), but better early than later." It could be a good thing that they showed their hand now, rather than later, when the demographics would be so much more on their side. We need to make the best use of the fortuitous early warning we've got. I'm inclined to think that they jumped the gun and revealed more than they were ready for. Maybe that's why the Raza academy is back-pedaling, saying "we don't endorse violence" and all that other soothing stuff.

The fence sitters and some of the P-secs are temporarily in a more receptive mood. Take the chance, and talk them out of their waffling attitude for good.

BhairavP
BRFite
Posts: 1423
Joined: 13 Jun 2005 13:34
Location: The Beepul's Repubric of SoBo

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby BhairavP » 17 Aug 2012 09:00

Venkarl wrote:We now have a new addition--"Buddhist Radicals" to the list of Saffron Terrorists, RSS Goons, VHP Vandals, Trishul Weilding Shiv Shainiks etc...

Same DDM called Kasab and his party as Gunmen or Pakistani Terrorists/Militants....no balls to call them Islamic Terrorists/Radicals?


Hey, you forgot us militant Jain monks. Especially violent during the ongoing Paryushan Parva.

member_23629
BRFite
Posts: 676
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_23629 » 17 Aug 2012 09:14

SamG wrote:
Victor wrote:Now SMS threats in Mumbai, Pune, Nashik also accompanied by large exodus. My guess is Delhi, Kolkata are next. I'm trying to figure out what exactly the peaceful will gain from this but I must say I'm impressed. 15% with balls holding 80% wusses hostage with ease. Hindus will not be able to replicate this level of coordinated nation-wide action for several decades yet.
Link


Victor,these 15% show balls only because of kangress.I know from my personal experience that these people are more wussies than us,trust me. They exert because they know that they can get away using Minority card. Remove the notion that Hindus are weakling.I think that this has to do more with politics than religion here.I sense Kangress haath all over.


My wife taught in a Muslim minority school for a couple of years, and she came to the same conclusion -- they are cowards who seek safety in numbers but are scared when they are alone. They are essentially bullies who prey on those they percieve as soft and weak but collapse against those who can hit back. Notice how the Muslims collapsed in front of the Sikhs, Marathas and the British. They were licking their boots.

Prem
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21089
Joined: 01 Jul 1999 11:31
Location: Weighing and Waiting 8T Yconomy

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Prem » 17 Aug 2012 09:20

Vishal_Bhatia wrote:brihaspati-ji, ramana-ji, and others
What is it that we can do? Or, what is it that I can do to fight the Mullahcracy?


Prepare for worst in every sense and resolve to solve the the riddle by cutting the core of Knot . OTOH, follow the advise of Great Chacha and Mahatma to Hindus and Sikhs in 47 to welcome the slaughter ,rape and loot.

Hari Seldon
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9225
Joined: 27 Jul 2009 12:47
Location: University of Trantor

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Hari Seldon » 17 Aug 2012 09:26

varunkumar wrote:My wife taught in a Muslim minority school for a couple of years, and she came to the same conclusion -- they are cowards who seek safety in numbers but are scared when they are alone. They are essentially bullies who prey on those they percieve as soft and weak but collapse against those who can hit back. Notice how the Muslims collapsed in front of the Sikhs, Marathas and the British. They were licking their boots.


Bingo.
Which is why there have been ZERO reports of any NE "exodus" from Gujarat, for example. Shows the effect a competent govt serious about law and order and genuinely unyielding to muslim threats can have without its having to advertise its seriousness.

P.S.
OK, there's not that many NE folks there, perhaps. Still, point holds.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7227
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nachiket » 17 Aug 2012 09:27

Vishal_Bhatia wrote:brihaspati-ji, ramana-ji, and others
What is it that we can do? Or, what is it that I can do to fight the Mullahcracy?


Much of the current trouble has been caused and exacerbated because the Muslims vote as a bloc in most cases, forming a much more useful vote-bank than the divided Hindus. If Hindus start voting as a bloc, for people who promise to protect the community, instead of quibbling amongst themselves over caste and regional differences, the Muslim vote bank will suddenly appear smaller and less necessary to be appeased. If this doesn't happen, things will continue to deteriorate as they are now.

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vina » 17 Aug 2012 09:47

Something is extremely fishy about this N.E folks exodus. Today's front page report in Al-Hundi talked about folks from Chennai fleeing! And that included folks who had come there from places further south like Madurai and Coimbatore.

While I welcome folks from NE at places like Madurai and Coimbatore, where we have never seen them at all earlier, all in all , very positive, I simply can't imagine why anyone would flee TN , especially places like Madurai or Chennai (ok, Coimbatore is very close to Kerala) for reasons which are simply not rooted in history at all.

For eg, if someone at all goes on a rampage against anyone there, they will get the full measure of the danda from the police. Guaranteed. It seems like blind panic orchestrated by someone. I can't imagine why the Govt hasn't arrested those interested parties and put them behind bars.

Venkarl
BRFite
Posts: 932
Joined: 27 Mar 2008 02:50
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Venkarl » 17 Aug 2012 10:18

What if this exodus turns out to be a reinforcements back in NE states against BD Moslem Immigrants?

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 7668
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sachin » 17 Aug 2012 10:20

vera_k wrote:Whether exodus or riots, the perpetrators are able to meet their goal of ethnic cleansing. Can police forces stop this type of ethnic cleansing?

If your feeling is that, "trains are running late, bring in the Army; traffic policemen are not able to manage the traffic, let us bring in Military Police", then there is no point in debating this point again and again. Because I feel the other way. There is a distinct job for the police, there is a distinct job for the Army. And if civil administration wants Army help (especially in open riots), there are laid down procedures for requesting it.

Police forces can stop the whole thing by investigating the perpetrators who started the rumours, and identifying folks who went and threatened the people. The police would have much presence on the ground than any Army unit. But if you expect the police to stop the exodus by denying people their rights to board a train, it is only going to cause further problems.

How many people in Karnataka police are of Northeast origin?

If we do this, then we are pretty much stating that each Indian can only be protected by folks from his own community/state. Tomorrow a Muslim can say that he would only get justice if his case is investigated by Muslim police men. X'ians can follow suit. Police force of any state would be 99% staffed from folks from that state. How ever what should be expected of the police (of any state) is that they would give adequate protection to all people in their jurisdiction.

This is my last topic on the subject of Army to do police man's job.

BTW, looks like the police had conducted a "Flag March" yesterday in the areas of Ejipura, Koramangala etc late in the evening. But looks like the people's confidence is shaken :(.

BTW, "The Hindu" edition for Bangalore is back to its usual game of equal-equal. To increase our BPs find a couple of articles.
Don’t flee, Muslim leaders say
One of the Muslim leaders read out an SMS — said to have originated from a group called Bhagat Singh Kranti Sena — which was spooking the northeast communities asking them to be careful since there was a threat to their safety
{So now we know what was the root cause of people to panic. It is this Bhagat Singh Kranti Sena, you see}

A representative of the Students Islamic Organisation of India complained that the police ejected them from the railway station on Wednesday night when they had only turned up to show their support for the people who were fleeing.
Really sad, this is :(.

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Victor » 17 Aug 2012 10:25

varunkumar wrote:-- they are cowards who seek safety in numbers but are scared when they are alone. They are essentially bullies who prey on those they percieve as soft and weak but collapse against those who can hit back. Notice how the Muslims collapsed in front of the Sikhs, Marathas and the British. They were licking their boots.

Of course. But were are today's Sikhs, Marathas and British? Or Ahoms for that matter (check "NDA, Borphukan").

Point is, they are brave, cohesive and aggressive as a small group and we are divided cowards as a much bigger but diffident and drugged group. That's all that counts. Just like a domesticated elephant, we believe that we are restrained because of the puny chain tied to our leg. We need something to remind us that all we really need to do is rip that chain off with a small kick. In our present "gone case" condition, that something will most likely need to be a very painful shock. Mind you, I'm not saying that the liberated elephant should then proceed to trample everyone, which it can easily do. Just the act of waking up will quiet and calm down everybody around us.

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Victor » 17 Aug 2012 10:37

Venkarl wrote:What if this exodus turns out to be a reinforcements back in NE states against BD Moslem Immigrants?

20,000 - 50,000 is hardly reinforcement when we are talking 30-50 lakh BDs. And the people going back are from all NE states, not just Assam. No, this is a very well planned operation to make the NE feel that India does not care for them, a sentiment that is unfortunately very easy to capitalize on. It is a similar strategy that was used by the illegal Muslim immigrants to chase away the "outsiders" from Assam by pinning the blame on the Assamese. Then, the Biharis who had worked menial jobs in Assam for generations were replaced by Bangladeshis. The government and media duly played along.

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1843
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SRoy » 17 Aug 2012 10:47

^^
Victor,

Did the native Assamese stand by the Bihari labourers that served there for generations? It is only the shortcomings in our social structure that is being exploited by Islamists.

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Victor » 17 Aug 2012 11:01

SRoy wrote:^^
Victor,

Did the native Assamese stand by the Bihari labourers that served there for generations?

How do you mean "stand by"? The Biharis have always been and still are a peaceful part of the fabric of Assamese society. The ordinary Assamese were clueless about what was happening and only the intelligentsia caught on. Much like the recent events, there were only a very few isolated events but those were enough because they were blown up in the press. There were telltale signs of BD involvement, like cutting of throats etc, which locals tend not to indulge in. There are still many Biharis in Assam but mainly in towns. They no longer congregate in isolated villages. The Biharis don't compete with the Assamese for land (they don't farm) or labour (Assamese don't do menial labour). The BDs do compete with them on labor and with the Assamese on land.

Venkarl
BRFite
Posts: 932
Joined: 27 Mar 2008 02:50
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Venkarl » 17 Aug 2012 11:12

Thanks Victor. Trying to foresee what are the possibilities. 20,000-50,000 frustrated NE folks going back to NE is not to be taken lightly IMO. There is a deliberate planning of civil war in NE. Kamarupa will soon be up in flames.

Btw, is there a way I can share this thread on FB?

Victor
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2628
Joined: 24 Apr 2001 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Victor » 17 Aug 2012 11:19

Regarding the reporting on the Assamese people's dislike of "outsiders", here is a clipping from the Northeast Tribune that I found on the internet:

following is the extract i have taken frm the north east tribune

Who says one has to know Punjabi or bhangra to be called a Sikh? Here is this community in Assam, which enjoys doing Bihu, has no knowledge of Punjabi language or culture yet follows Sikh teachings with rigidity, which is no way less than the Sikhs in Punjab. Displaced from their place of origin centuries ago, this community of Assamese Sikhs living in a remote area of Nowgoan district are often dubbed and ridiculed by their counterparts here as 'second-class Sikhs'.

A whopping number of about 10,000 Assamese Sikhs are mainly concentrated in Nowgaon district. Their turbans may not go well with their Mongoloid features and sparse beards, and may even fetch them belittling remarks from other Sikhs yet they remain a proud race. "Our forefathers came to Assam centuries ago to rescue the Assamese people from foreign invasion and that makes us feel proud. As far as our religion is concerned, we have been following it with utmost devotion," says one of the Assamese Sikhs, voicing the general sentiment of his community.

And these Sikhs don’t feel nostalgic about being away from Punjab, its culture and its people. "We are Assamese who are following the Sikh religion. We have adopted this place as our own, as we have been living here for generations."

So let not appearances throw you off gear as you enter the house of one of these families. You are not likely to be greeted with a glass of water or soft drink but with a sarai containing betel nut and paan — the traditional offering made by the Assamese. Even the lady of the house looks like just any other Assamese married women — adorned with sindoor and clad in mekhla – chaddar, the traditional Assamese dress — till your eyes rest on the tiny kirpan tucked under the chaddar

Some of these Sikhs are my friends and we used to joke with military Sikhs who were stunned to see these ch**ki looking guys with turbans, one hair on their chin and not a single word of Punjabi. Similarly, Marwaris have lived and thrived in Assam for generations with many "becoming Assamese" because of physical isolation. A prominent family has the name of Agarwala with none of its members speaking anything other than Assamese (and English now).

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9968
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 17 Aug 2012 12:09

Venkarl wrote:Thanks Victor. Trying to foresee what are the possibilities. 20,000-50,000 frustrated NE folks going back to NE is not to be taken lightly IMO. There is a deliberate planning of civil war in NE. Kamarupa will soon be up in flames.


Exactly my thoughts...the entire NE is going to turn into a bigger tinderbox than it is now in the days to come, all thanks to the myopic of a certain party to earn votes and retain power irrespective of whichever country citizen votes for them.

Actually, these kind of situations will lead to massive hardening of opinion against the "certain community" in the minds of the majority and might create tinderboxes in other places too. Already, i am seeing even usually "liberal" folks whom i talk to really not able to defend the community this time around and actually starting to harden their stance. Only lefties and NDTV types will remain unaffected by all these incidents ( the Mumbai + NE exodus)

Nihat
BRFite
Posts: 1177
Joined: 10 Dec 2008 13:35

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Nihat » 17 Aug 2012 12:30

What I don't understand in all this is the "Congress Bashing" part , if Illegal immigration has been such a problem and shifting demographics threaten the entire state of Assam then why the people of Assam (heck India too) who while in majority did not vote en masse to oust such anti-national elements from Indian politics. Maybe I'm missing a point here but from what I can see the buck for most of our Internal Security problems lies with the people onlee. Why vote the appeasers into power again and again only to suffer like this later on.

In a democracy the majority rules and if the majority is downright stupid , I don't see the sense in blaming archaic political parties at all. There is still time left for the people of assam , wake up and smell the coffee , what good is a majority if it cannot speak for itself.

shyam
BRFite
Posts: 1453
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyam » 17 Aug 2012 12:51

This is where India's multiparty system creates problem. There may be a majority community, but there are many sub-communities within it and they all have their own parties. The majority will never vote as single block.

prahaar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2797
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 04:14

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby prahaar » 17 Aug 2012 13:37

Nihat wrote: Why vote the appeasers into power again and again only to suffer like this later on.

In a democracy the majority rules and if the majority is downright stupid , I don't see the sense in blaming archaic political parties at all. There is still time left for the people of assam , wake up and smell the coffee , what good is a majority if it cannot speak for itself.


Do you think every individual in India can vote with as much freedom as most BRFites have the freedom to decide on whether they will have coffee or tea?

johneeG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3473
Joined: 01 Jun 2009 12:47

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby johneeG » 17 Aug 2012 14:06

I think the key link we are all missing is: EVM.

AP has been one of the key states in voting back UPA to power. But the result was by no means predictable before elections. Bringing Chiranjeevi to split the anti-Govt votes was YSR project. Despite that, the Congress win was not assured. In fact, there was fire that broke out in AP secretariat while YSR was holidaying somewhere(after the election and before the results). I think the files at the secretariat that would expose the YSR to the next regime were the target of that fire incident( masked as accident). It shows that YSR was not very confident of returning to power.

Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6350
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Supratik » 17 Aug 2012 15:42

I am not sure about the rona-dhona on this thread. My analysis suggests that the corrupt Assamese INC (AGP is not much different) were settling Bdeshi settlers on whom they consider troublesome like the Bodos. They have successfully done this to the Bengali Hindus who were a majority in Cachar and Barak valley and were threatening to do it to other troublesome groups. If you look at the demographic map of Assam most areas where Assamese are in a majority do not have much illegal immigrants. An Assamese INC leader was on timesnow saying that they are all Indian citizens. The Bodos probably have given them the upper cut. What happened is that the NDA gave them some autonomy in Bodo areas under BDA. Many took it and gave up arms. Then the Bodos came to power in Assam as allies of INC where INC was totally dependent on them. They extracted BATC which favors them plus more areas were added to it. INC govt. was dependent on them and was forced to give in. I think the illegal settlers are being driven out and there is backlash. This is to be expected. Given the manipulation of the Assamese INC leadership the tribals would have no choice but to go for this type of cleansing. Remains to be seen whether the INC forces the illegal settlers to move back to Bodo areas. The next step would be for the Koch-Rajbonshis to step up on the gas so that Kamtapur autonomous district can be formed in the rest of Western Assam and parts of WB and is freed from illegal settlers and given back to the tribals. The illegal settlers if unable to go back to Bodo areas are going to try to move to WB or the ghettos in rest of India. Overall this is the picture I get.

SRoy
BRFite
Posts: 1843
Joined: 15 Jul 2005 06:45
Location: Kolkata
Contact:

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SRoy » 17 Aug 2012 16:24

^^

Kamtapur (and Gorkhaland) movement will lead to lose of WB territories but will prove to be extremely beneficial in the long run.

rajithn
BRFite
Posts: 470
Joined: 27 Dec 2008 01:52

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby rajithn » 17 Aug 2012 16:32

'Minor' blast in Pune!!! 1 5 yr old injured

Lilo
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4069
Joined: 23 Jun 2007 09:08

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Lilo » 17 Aug 2012 17:07

prahaar wrote:
Nihat wrote: Why vote the appeasers into power again and again only to suffer like this later on.

In a democracy the majority rules and if the majority is downright stupid , I don't see the sense in blaming archaic political parties at all. There is still time left for the people of assam , wake up and smell the coffee , what good is a majority if it cannot speak for itself.


Do you think every individual in India can vote with as much freedom as most BRFites have the freedom to decide on whether they will have coffee or tea?


In this context i wish to point to this post by Bji.
brihaspati wrote:
varunkumar wrote:But this will not stop these very same Assamese from voting the Congress party to power again, the same party which does not even pretend to represent their interests but makes it very clear they are on the side of the Bangladeshi illegal immigrants. Hindus connive with their oppressors to ensure their own persecution -- so what are they complaining about now?


Let us be realistic about the voting issue. Many from the upper crusts of society tend to shout a lot about the power of "voting", and somehow election results as self-legitimizing of some representation of popular sentiments.

The ground reality will not be obvious, unless you have worked from within the political system to see how votes are really extracted, and who manages this extraction. In most cases, for a very wide area of India, geographically and demographically - the aam voter is tied to financier+politico+crminal nexus, and depend on them for their livelihood or the safety of tehir life an dlimb and their family. I know the system working from the grassroots level. Take an urban slum for example - in most cases these people are on illegally occupied land, occupied by an influential urban goonda [who might be from an illustriously civilized and advanced section of society+party+education etc], who then lets it out to slum dwellers. The bosses' party/chamcha collects rent+women+other benefits, and even provide employment and tae a cut from that employment in the name of the boss/party. The gloriously superior Raj-hangover police forces are in total cahoots with whoever ahppens tod ominate the local biz+politco+mafia scene. [Their own upper level hierarchy will have corresponding ties with corresponding outer-civilized goondas at corresponding levels].

There are ways and means to estimate how people from a zone have voted. The conseuqneces of wrong voting - that is not according to the wishes of the prevailing wind within the biz+politico+criminal network dominating that zone, can be disastrous for the people. Their livelihood may be jeopardized, or even their lives and limbs or their women. This is how it works on the ground.

Because people have no means to ensure their own physical safety - the state monopolizes all right to violence, [and of course those it tolerates as part of the criminal nexus to crry out violence according political or financial secret needs and decisions], the police still think they are kind of detached and superior Raj type lords of the people and basically help protect the existing power's interests - people cannot hit back, even through votes. But note that "existing pwoer" is actually determined by the interests of the underlying criminal+politico+financier network and not necessarily just on the party in power.

When we see regime changes through voting, its because the underlying financier+criminal nexus has decided to teach the existing regime a lesson or that they think they will gain more with a change.

Its no use lambasting Hindus or aam for voting in the wrong way. I know what I am saying could be twisted into support for extra-constitutional means. That is not what I imply. The means to change is through mass movements, civil disobedience, in such large numbers that the biz+crminal guys themselves think that it would be better to switch to this new force to stay in profiteering and hence do not combine with the state's coercive forces to crush the nascent dissent. It is the task of the elite dissenters to show the way. They know - just as they have known and used for centuries - the internal weknesses of the elite, its factions, the educational wherewithal to utilize all fissures, and the confidence of "being right" that comes with being born into elite sections.


The dynamics of money power in elections and its influence on voting patterns either directly or more often indirectly by supplying capacities to wield coercive power on helpless masses ... is the most well kept secret of the "worlds largest democracy".

Nobody i mean NOBODY in the indian media informs the aam junta on this subject - though all of them are unfailingly unanimous in their praise for EC on "smooth conduct" of elections.

Questions like....
How is the feedback on their spending reaching those who splurge money in elections - is it through the voting numbers being declared "ward" wise. How is this info being accumulated and released at ward level eroding the secrecy of the "secret ballot" - and exposing the erring communities/groups to the punitive blowback from the spenders when they inevitably getback into power ??

Also why do the opposition groups like "Team Anna" or even innately anti-congress political parties like TDP,BJP etc never highlight this open hack of the freedom to exhert freechoice through secret ballot perpetrated on the nation ?

This is a most important issue the subsequent effects (some mentioned below) like the many heads of a hydra are superficial and cannot be killed in isolation.

Need for money to win in elections -> massive Corruption -> tranferred abroad as blackmoney ->use financial networks inevitably in control of foreign agencies -> ceding national soverignity by netas to these foreign entities -> the clamour for the finite public money being redistributed during the 5 years desensitizes masses wrt to common interests and least common denominators like caste comeforth and further deepen the schizms along divisive lines -> These divisions leveraged by netas can be transformed into emotive issues in the subsequent elections and now even less money is required to make the voters dance to the neta's tune ->Money again brought back from outside during elections and added with the money looted during the previous 5years -> the cycle starts all over.

I think there should be a dedicated thread to understand how money power works to curtail freechoice in our elections. Considering the other accounts i heard, the dynamics of influence acting in each region and its groups in our vast nation are manifold and even Bji's post is not an exhaustive account.

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby vina » 17 Aug 2012 18:04

Amazing. All the security staff in my gated community have "decamped". Seems like that the pep talk their big boss gave them two nights ago that I overheard had no effect!

I am still nonplussed at all this. Why would so many folks run away scared at these kind of rumor mongering. It is unreal.

And come on, running away from Madurai and Chennai kind of place , while staying put in far less safe Dilli ? Something is seriously amiss here.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6822
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyamd » 17 Aug 2012 18:20

They have shut down a few blogs for rumour mongering apparently.

I agree with Vina's assessment - quite shocking that in TN this is happening as the police are far more effective than in other states.

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9968
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 17 Aug 2012 18:40

^^ Has there ever been such a mass exodus of one community in post-Independence India??

Except of course for the J&K Pandits who were anyways driven away by communal Jagmohan despite the nationalist, pious KMs best efforts to stop the Pandits from leaving

sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9968
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby sum » 17 Aug 2012 18:41

Protests in Lucknow after Friday prayers; media attacked: A protest march after the last Friday prayers of Ramadan today turned violent here as a group of people, shouting slogans against alleged atrocities on minorities in Assam and Myanmar, resorted to stone pelting and vandalism.

The protest march which started from near the Tile Wali Masjid created a ruckus on its way forcing business establishments to close down and vandalising parks and vehicles, a senior police official said. When the RAF and PAC tried to stop them they indulged in stone pelting damaging public properties and vehicles

Sigh.....the patience of the majority is reaaally being put to a test here

nakul
BRFite
Posts: 1251
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 10:39

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby nakul » 17 Aug 2012 18:56

BRF - Ahead of the curve

The current situation has already been predicted when it said that UPA is staring at defeat in the oncoming LS elections. The UPA needs to play every trick in its book to ensure their victory. One of them is polarisation of the communal vote. The current situation is being allowed to deteriorate to the point where Hindus are forced to retaliate or live as aliens in their own motherland.

The other choice of course is to take it all lying down. The govt is hoping that at least one voice from the Hindu side rises before that can be taken to the cleaners. Soon the media will descend and desxribe how the Hindu goons are doing a progrom on Muslims. The Muslims will lap it up and vote for the party that will stand for them. This way the Muslim vote can be assured.

The urban vote disenchanted by UPA will be fed by the media about the atrocities of RSS / BJP to instigate communal violence in cities. All the while ignoring the real movers and shakers in the political machinery.

The rural vote is a far more secure base and will be strengthened by NREGA, free sops like mobiles, electricity, etc prior to the elections.

The UPA will hope to ensure that Muslims compromise of as many votes as possible since this is their most reliable constituency. Expect more Muslim voices supporting NE violence when it is used to suppress the natives. Meanwhile, the RSS has done a good job (Ramdev agitation support, Bangalore show of strength). The Hindu is reporting that VHP is doing its bit in Hyderabad where the Muslims are in larger numbers and the exodus is ongoing.

The BJP is adopting a wait and watch attitude and limiting itself to protests that are not doing of a national party. Expect some more fireworks as Congress goes all out to woo the Muslim & secular Hindu vote since there is no one to stop them directly. If NaMo is to be a PM candidate, the Congress has to create a communally charged atmosphere else his communal tag won't work.

shyamd
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6822
Joined: 08 Aug 2006 18:43

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyamd » 17 Aug 2012 19:09

Intruder held at Navy air station in Visakhapatnam
Siva G, TNN Aug 14, 2012, 03.31AM IST

VISAKHAPATNAM: In what could be a major security breach, barely hours after Indian Navy chief Nirmal Verma landed at the INS Dega in Visakhapatnam, an unidentified intruder was nabbed in the high security zone in the late hours of Sunday. This arrest comes in the wake of a red alert by the security agencies at all the airports across the country ahead of the Independence Day.

It remains a mystery as to how the unidentified 28-year-old man gained entry into the Eastern Naval Command's air station INS Dega at a time when the entry of visitors have been barred as part of the general alert, which is secluded from the main Vizag airport premises.

The INS Dega premises was thoroughly screened and checked by the security personnel by using sniffer dogs to detect any explosives after the intruder was picked up. Though no explosive material was found, the intrusion has puzzled the security wings. His answers were vague and not cohesive during interrogation by the Naval sleuths.

Sources told TOI that the intruder was fluent in Hindi and has a tattoo of Lord Hanuman on one of his hands. "He gained entry into the air station at 11.30 pm," a source said. The operations of the civilian flights close at 8 pm at the airport, which is under the surveillance of CISF jawans.

Sources said the intruder entered the area through the taxi stand linking the air station and was noticed by the quick reaction team of the Navy when he was running towards the runway.

The security personnel detained him. Source said the intruder had good physique as the security personnel had to run hard to nab him. Highly-placed sources said the CRPF personnel had noticed him earlier moving suspiciously in the civilian airport area.

Sources said the naval authorities could not extract any information from him despite hours of grilling. He mentioned Akroor sector in Kashmir which borders Pakistan during the interrogation more than once.


"When intelligence sleuths asked him he merely said he entered the INS Dega premises for food, which is unbelievable," a senior official said. He gave out several names like Suresh, Dharmendra, Siva and others when asked about his identity. At one stage he said he was heading for Mumbai from Rajasthan. "Later, he claimed he escaped from a prison as he was jailed though he had no role in a case of car theft," the official said.

The authorities are trying to establish the identity of the intruder with the particulars of two robbers who escaped from a prison in Haryana recently. The Indian Navy chief is on a farewell visit to ENC for three days.

The intruder was handed over to the local police by the Navy. The city commissioner J Poornachandra Rao said that the interrogation has started.


Strange ....

satya
BRFite
Posts: 717
Joined: 19 Jan 2005 03:09

Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby satya » 17 Aug 2012 19:25

What about the power struggle at Deoband ? As my information it is far from settled & one of the faction ( in power ) decided to make its show of strength in areas supposedly under influence of Vastanvi ( Mumbai count for one ) .There's increasing jittery among mullahs in power & their secular counterparts in power of their(current mullah's of deoband ) receding influence in regions other than north . There's more than one cook of this broth .


Return to “Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: g.sarkar and 63 guests