Internal Security Watch

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krisna
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby krisna » 28 Dec 2012 05:53

paramu wrote:Something to be noticed.

The Delhi bus rape incident happened on Dec 16. The biggest facebook & NGO driven protest against the incident happened on Dec 23rd, and it was all over the media for few days.

Putin was in Delhi on Dec 24th.

There was another rape incident in a car in Delhi yesterday, and nobody cares.



Good point.
The brutality of the gangrape has shocked the entire nation I guess.
If the victim was just raped and left unharmed then this would not have occurred.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby paramu » 28 Dec 2012 06:01

What happened yesterday was also a gangrape, the victim is a 42 year old lady, who was visiting Vrindavan, and the body was thrown in Kalkaji. IF the protesters were serious, they should have another protest beause this incident happened within days after massive anti-rape protest. If they don't, it shows that their intention of protest was not increasing awareness against rape.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Cosmo_R » 28 Dec 2012 06:29

@paramu ^^^: So what are you really saying? Please be explicit. Let's hear the CT theory—Putin/NGO/Facebook/Trilateral Commission/LGTB etc.

Inquiring minds want to know. Seriously--we really want to know. Open minds.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Cosmo_R » 28 Dec 2012 06:33

Owaisi is a resident paki/jihadi. I'm rooting for Modi.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyamd » 28 Dec 2012 12:00

prahaar wrote:This kind of attitude of our government is what pisses people off. "Too big to fall" BS is the hallmark of the current establishment (not limited to BJP or INC), but it is quite obvious that INC is 90% of the establishment in India.

I think you have misunderstood what I said - I am saying he can be easily replaced by another muslim politician. Secondly, we don't create a huge issue out of such statements because everyone knows that the muslims are just 12-15% of population - they are not a deciding factor at all and if all the statements of muslims were aired on TV, there would be riots - which isn't good for the country.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sanku » 28 Dec 2012 12:02

Must read. Posting in full

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/gimmi ... 121228.htm

Gimmicks do not save India and its people from terror

'Some said this wild goose chase was a deliberate ploy of Chidambaram, a reluctant home minister, who believed that keeping all the agencies and forces spinning around all the while, would ensure him a safe career in an otherwise dicey charge, no matter how much enduring damage it did to the institutions.'

R N Ravi, retired special director, Intelligence Bureau, assesses how India [ Images ] can meet the challenges of terrorism in 2013.
Four years since the day when India was traumatised and suffered wrenching humiliation at the hands of 10 terrorists from Pakistan who had sneaked with ease into Mumbai [ Images ] and staged, for over 48 hours, a macabre dance of death and destruction killing 166 hapless people, it is natural for the countrymen to be anxiously curious to know if we are safe today from a determined terrorist attack.

Did the widespread spasm of outrage and indignation following the November 26, 2008, attack lead to the creation of a credible anti-terror architecture for the country?

The ringside view of the scenario is rather dismaying.

Although we made right noises in the wake of 26/11, these were hardly pursued with right resolve and vision.

Rhetoric apart, our counter-terrorism architecture, notwithstanding some cosmetic make-up in recent years, remains inherently weak and vulnerable.

At the most fundamental level, security comprises two crucial ingredients: Pre-emptive, and responsive; and the acid test of efficiency of the security architecture for an entity -- be it a nation, a city, an institution or an individual -- is its capabilities on both counts.

A perfectly efficient architecture detects and disables a threat, whether looming or inchoate before it strikes.

However, we do not live in a perfect world. Hence, it must have a robust responsive capability to efficiently mitigate the incidence of an unprevented threat.

A threat can be pre-empted only if its existence is known before it is unleashed. Thus, an efficient intelligence system is the crucial component of an anti-terror architecture.

Regrettably, there has been little worthwhile capacity augmentation on this count.

The National Technical Research Organisation set up in 2004 to enhance the existing technical capabilities for intelligence gathering has belied expectations. Its essential role is to service civil and military intelligence and provide them, on demand, imageries of target locations and monitor sensitive satellite, terrestrial and cyber communications for them.

However, in the absence of a healthy operational protocol and requisite synergy with consumer agencies, its productivity and utility are grossly impaired.

It has been deeply mired in serious allegations of corruption and nepotism. Its top and middle management posts are arbitrarily filled through a dubious selection process, often with retired officials, more as a reward for their loyalty than merit or professional competence.

The NTRO has lost its creed.

The Multi Agency Centre created in the aftermath of the Kargil [ Images ] war to ensure much-needed synergy among over 24 federal intelligence agencies got some traction after P Chidambaram [ Images ] took charge of the home ministry in the aftermath of 26/11.

Unfortunately, his cavalier interventions pushed the MAC off-tangent. He flipped the traditional grammar of intelligence sharing from 'need to know' to 'obligation to share'.

Obligation to share is essentially the newfound philosophy of American intelligence. It is relevant for them as almost all the terror threats to the US, unlike ours, originate from external sources and thus pooling intelligence from all possible sources and keeping all agencies in the loop is an imperative.

Chidambaram periodically reviewed the performance of all the federal intelligence agencies at the MAC. He judged them by the number of reports they manufactured and shared. It, soon, became a numbers game.

Agencies, in competition with each other, began churning out reports with least regard to tradecraft and their reliability.

The MAC, in mechanical fashion, passes on all the reports to the state police and other ground forces for action. The latter are deluged with grossly vague and unworkable reports.

Intelligence-sharing has degenerated to intelligence-mongering.

Soon the MAC became a joke. Some said this wild goose chase by all agencies was a deliberate ploy of Chidambaram, a reluctant home minister, who believed that keeping all the agencies and forces spinning around all the while, would ensure him a safe career in an otherwise dicey charge, no matter how much enduring damage it did to the institutions.

Some tangible gains have been made in the sphere of international intelligence cooperation, thanks to the US global counter-terrorism initiatives. Our agencies -- the Intelligence Bureau and the Research and Analysis Wing -- have enhanced operational contact with Western intelligence agencies and their international allies.

This has helped us neutralise some significant terror threats emanating from foreign soil and disrupting terror modules in India and abroad.

The gains of international cooperation were most felt during the Commonwealth Games [ Images ] 2010, Delhi [ Images ]. Threats to the CWG were from external sources and the day-to-day active cooperation of friendly international agencies was quite reassuring and helpful in the safe conduct of the Games.

Although the significance of international cooperation should not be underestimated, it has severe limitations. It is to a great deal a function of the interests and stakes those countries have in India. It is fluid and uncertain. Our core strength remains our own capabilities.

In order to deal with un-prevented threats and determined pursuit of the terrorists, the Centre created the National Investigation Agency in 2009.

Chidambaram launched it with fanfare and assured the nation that those who committed an act of terror on Indian soil would for sure meet the ends of justice. The nascent agency was populated with officers of proven investigative capabilities.

The first case entrusted to them was against leaders of Dima Halam Daoga, a notorious terrorist outfit of Assam that had killed over 300 innocent people and ran an international arms ring delivering deadly weapons from East and Southeast Asian markets to numerous militias in the region and the rest of India.

The NIA did an excellent job, nabbed the ringleaders and unveiled their international network with clinching evidence. But then came the electioneering for the 2011 assembly election in Assam.

In the game of cynical politics the nabbed terrorists were valuable assets for the ruling dispensation in the state. They had to be set free in a quid pro quo. The NIA was pressured into facilitating their bail.

When despite the NIA, the conscientious district judge in Guwahati refused them bail on the ground that the charges were extremely serious and the evidence on record weighty, the terrorists were advised to approach the high court.

They were set at large and the case was put into deep freeze. It took an unhealthy toll on the morale of the NIA officers in the agency's very first case.

In reckless disregard for the Indian context, Chidambaram sought to replicate the National Counter Terrorism [ Images ] Centre of the US with additional power of intrusive operational reach in the states.

He pursued it with disdain for the federal system, at times with petulance and in the face of legitimate misgivings among his senior Cabinet colleagues.

It provoked many state governments and widened the trust deficit between the Centre and the states. The quixotic project seems to have been shelved with his departure from the home ministry.

Chidambaram, instead of augmenting the operational muscle of the National Security Guard -- the core striking arm of the anti-terror architecture -- in a populist move chose to enlarge its footprint and created four skeletal regional hubs, ostensibly to reduce the response time in the event of an attack.

The crucial lesson of 26/11 is not the alleged delay of a few hours in the NSG reaching Mumbai, a logistical concern that could be easily overcome by placing a dedicated fleet of aircraft to it, but an honest inquisition into its anti-terror capability.

How could a couple of terrorists play with the lives of hapless people for over 48 hours keeping the NSG at bay?

The stress should have been on sharpening its operational teeth and augmenting its efficiency instead of adding to its bulk.

Populist gimmicks and half-measures do not save a country and its people from terror.

R N Ravi is a retired special director, Intelligence Bureau.


A saga of deliberate sabotage of internal security apparatus, for petty personal political gains, vote bank politics and general disdain for any of the issues in India.

Read and weep.
:( :( :(

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Agnimitra » 28 Dec 2012 13:18

shyamd wrote:Hezbollah, not Hamas. If not him, someone else will take over that role. No one wants to have riots in the country and thats why the majority is silent. They are just jujubee 15% at most, they can't decide anything.

Owaisi's verbal prostitution and the roaring crowd are an exercise in self-delusion. But they are sliding into confrontation with Hindus for sure. 15% is not a small number, especially if you consider that they are merely the local branch of an international network, which even in the Indian subcontinent is close to 40%. I hope some new way of engagement with them is found soon, something more civilized than riots.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Dec 2012 13:40

shyamd wrote:
prahaar wrote:This kind of attitude of our government is what pisses people off. "Too big to fall" BS is the hallmark of the current establishment (not limited to BJP or INC), but it is quite obvious that INC is 90% of the establishment in India.

I think you have misunderstood what I said - I am saying he can be easily replaced by another muslim politician. Secondly, we don't create a huge issue out of such statements because everyone knows that the muslims are just 12-15% of population - they are not a deciding factor at all and if all the statements of muslims were aired on TV, there would be riots - which isn't good for the country.


Are 12-15% in Kashmir Valley, North Kerela, Old city Hyderabad, areas of WB , Assam, Wetsern UP. They continue rioting.

SO like Communal violence bill draft, onus is only Hindus to keep the peace and they carte blanche to Burn Bogies like Godhra.

Like Gandhiji said, when Muslims come to kills, Hindus should bear thier chest and die.

Why doesn't INC leaders show us the way?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ashish raval » 28 Dec 2012 14:10

^^ Owaisi seems to be on track to incite Muslims for breaking India. I would rather invite this scumbag to go to Bapunagar in Ahmedabad and say what he is saying in Hyderabad and see what happens to him and his pathetic supports who comes down to listen him. I bet they will get grand sea burial like their prophet bin laden got at hands of Satan. Do gaj zameen is a far cry.
Modi will come to Hyderabad when his time will come. He is the guy who went to lal chowk and put Indian flag. If he does not fear terrorists he does not fear scumbags like Owaisi. Lol
I will be very disappointed if the liberal scums of India do not come out against it along with Shriman Salman Khurshid.
Last edited by ashish raval on 28 Dec 2012 14:51, edited 2 times in total.

Sagar G
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sagar G » 28 Dec 2012 14:43

Carl wrote:I hope some new way of engagement with them is found soon, something more civilized than riots.


Things always get worse before they get better.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby VikramS » 28 Dec 2012 15:03

I was actually expecting much worse. And the reaction was also not as jubliant or unified as I had thought.
Very likely a sarkari mussalman.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Hari Seldon » 28 Dec 2012 15:16

If (and only if) it has to get worse, then sooner the better I guess. Earlier the jeehardons show their hand (prematurely I hope) the lesser the ultimate damage.

Don't even wanna think about it but if they're planning a direct action day redux with these MIM jokers fashioning themselves after suhrawardy, they should also know there's no MKG like figure around this time to stop the reprisals (if any).

Jeez. Until this openly bloodthirsty and supremacist version of islam is slapped publicly and hard (even if reluctantly), I don't see how its sheen, shine and allure among the aam abdul can be dulled only. I was hoping we'd get to break this salafi islam's back in an open war against Pak but seems like the jeehardons will try to force a a civil war to contend with within India much before that...

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ashish raval » 28 Dec 2012 15:18

^^ uniform civil code.

shyamd
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby shyamd » 28 Dec 2012 15:18

Carl wrote:Owaisi's verbal prostitution and the roaring crowd are an exercise in self-delusion. But they are sliding into confrontation with Hindus for sure. 15% is not a small number, especially if you consider that they are merely the local branch of an international network, which even in the Indian subcontinent is close to 40%. I hope some new way of engagement with them is found soon, something more civilized than riots.

Riots across the country is not going to make our security situation any safer either. If he incites riots, then he'll be held accountable. end of story. Hindus just need to unite

member_20317
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby member_20317 » 28 Dec 2012 15:32

To a large part Hindus, who understand this well, are responsible because they do not desiminate their POV good enough. Like most guys here on BRF.

But then again,

The problem is there is only so much we can do by way of telling the truth to Hindus, as that could easily turn into a case of 'sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind'. Going sure coincidently also slows down the process.

Owaisi can be dealt with in time, even the political unity of Hindus is not so difficult, the problem IMO is, how does one ensure to a reasonable degree, that some amongst our own people do not get so pissed off that they fail to maintain their composure. After all rioting is not the goal. The goal is to gain control of what is rightfully ours and is sought to be sold out to foreign masters.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Dec 2012 16:02


Sagar G
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Sagar G » 28 Dec 2012 16:05

shyamd wrote:Riots across the country is not going to make our security situation any safer either. If he incites riots, then he'll be held accountable. end of story. Hindus just need to unite


Hindus won't unite unless you tell them the truth about Islam, living in denial is not going to help the situation either. Videos like the one posted must be seen by as many Hindus as possible so as to get rid of the delusion that Hindus suffer from.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Advait » 28 Dec 2012 21:42

By calling him a joker, trying to underplay what he is saying, we are just burying our heads in the sand. He is opening saying that unless Hindus become dhimmis, Muslims will wipe us out in a genocide. We must take him and other Muslim leaders at face value and not see chankiyan motives of how he is actually on the payroll of GoI and is just talking nonsense etc.

Hindus must have thought similarly about Muslim League in the 30s and 40s. I am sure the Hindus in Adilabad are already under pressure from the Muslims there if this guy can openly get so much support.

This macho,10=1 mentality shown by Muslims is something that is not going to go away easily. Germans and Japanese were like this only in the 30s. They can try to pass the buck to their leaders today, but those leaders did have mass support. Only after the near-total destruction of their countries and the unapologetic occupation, did they become peaceful. When the American Civil War began Sherman was supposed to have said that the south had 300,000 men who were used to a certain lifestyle which they would never give up and unless they were killed there would be no peace.(the final tally for the south came close to it).

What will Muslims choose?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 28 Dec 2012 22:01

Hindus should "unite"? !!!! Does it not go against "secularism"? Will it not threaten the image of the country that will also jeopardize investments and FDI's? Especially the new-found alliance with the Gulf - who will invest billions and bring gazillions of Indians out of poverty and also participate in defence alliances and help keep Paki's in place and make India a sooperpower?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Ashley Kravitz » 28 Dec 2012 22:44

Did someone save the video ? It has been deleted. It should be spread far and wide, especially to Dhimmi Secularists.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby darshhan » 28 Dec 2012 22:55

Carl wrote:
shyamd wrote:Hezbollah, not Hamas. If not him, someone else will take over that role. No one wants to have riots in the country and thats why the majority is silent. They are just jujubee 15% at most, they can't decide anything.

Owaisi's verbal prostitution and the roaring crowd are an exercise in self-delusion. But they are sliding into confrontation with Hindus for sure. 15% is not a small number, especially if you consider that they are merely the local branch of an international network, which even in the Indian subcontinent is close to 40%. I hope some new way of engagement with them is found soon, something more civilized than riots.


4G Warfare :!: i.e if Govt continues to be anti Dharmic for the foreseeable future.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby brihaspati » 28 Dec 2012 23:03

Owaisi, was related to the Islamist who was allowed by the Congress to first escape to Pakistan after the fall of the Razakars post-Independence, and whose group was allowed to revive and "reinstated" under JLN to tackle the supposed growing popularity of the communists in inner city Hyderabad.

Looking at how Islamists have been used by the Congress post-Independence, one can almost sense that under the formal nice-sounding excuses of delegetimizing the Jinnah-line of two-nations - the Islamists were being retained by the Congress leadership simply as a hedging bet to take care of whom them thought as most likely challengers to personal dynastic power - the "Hindu" and the "Left".

The congress was shaken by the loss of control during the 1945-1947 phase over the younger generations, and was taking a calculated bet. They wanted balance of forces among the population - so that their personal power could navigate in between those competing forces, instead of those forces uniting to overthrow the gaddi.

Owaisis' roots lie in the most violent expression of the core doctrines of Islam - as relevant for the non-Muslim - as represented by the razaakars. The more he dances, the better. Why not export him to Londonistan and recommend him to the British press, sympathetic lords peers and legislators, who are soooo concerned about the threat to multiculturalism and repression of Muslims everywhere in the world - but never ever have uttered a single word of even surprise at repression on "pagans" by these docile doves of peace as in Paksitan?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby devesh » 28 Dec 2012 23:34


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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Lilo » 29 Dec 2012 00:34


kittoo
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby kittoo » 29 Dec 2012 02:11

Downloaded and saved the videos in case they need to be reuploaded.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby devesh » 29 Dec 2012 02:18

^^
thank you!! didn't know about that method. greatly appreciate it!

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 29 Dec 2012 04:33

Looks like the Ind Muj cadre is based on the following profile:

Young Muslim males from Karnataka, South Maharastra, well educated and loners and some tenuous link to Hyderabad. All have training from ISI in TSP.

Is it possible these are remnants of Nizam's dominions in British India.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Prem » 29 Dec 2012 05:13

Chaleda Owaisi is lucky to live in Hydrabad. In few nooks of India i know , his Ghrrai Ghrrai Croaking like Daddo would not have been so long lasting and efficiently stopped by either obstructing or removal of wind pipe.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Muppalla » 29 Dec 2012 05:59

AP BJP files a complaint with police.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SSridhar » 29 Dec 2012 06:58

ramana wrote:Young Muslim males from Karnataka, South Maharastra, well educated and loners and some tenuous link to Hyderabad. All have training from ISI in TSP.

Apart from these places, there are other pockets such as Malappuram, Coimbatore and Tirunelveli where very extremist Mussalman are active.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 29 Dec 2012 10:25

yes but they are not hard core Ind Muj. My thesis/contention is Ind Muj is a relic of Operation Polo.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby SSridhar » 29 Dec 2012 10:47

Ramana, that is a very interesting angle. Quite possible too. Let me do some analysis. Will post later on.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 29 Dec 2012 10:49

I get these flashes on such things. Thanks for followup.
My thinking was all those districts are former Nizam's dominions. Then we have Paki connections. Most likely a throw back to 1948.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby ramana » 30 Dec 2012 02:18

X-posting....

Sushupti wrote:‘Constable heart attack was caused by anxiety’

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/con ... BV.twitter


So why did Delhi Bullice claim the constable was injured by the crowd and even charged some of them?

Isn't there something about wrongful arrest in the IPC?

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby Prem » 30 Dec 2012 05:14

ramana wrote:I get these flashes on such things. Thanks for followup.
My thinking was all those districts are former Nizam's dominions. Then we have Paki connections. Most likely a throw back to 1948.


Owaisi once called Sardar Patel an Indian terrorist.

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby asprinzl » 30 Dec 2012 06:48

Deleted. ramana
Last edited by ramana on 30 Dec 2012 08:10, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: ramana. Doesnt fit the look and feel of BRF

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby habal » 30 Dec 2012 10:48

Like Hassan Nisar said, yeh ek galli mein ekattha (united) nahin hain, aur mamole ko shahbaz banane kee baatein kartein hain (those who are not united in even a single street, talk about turning sparrows into eagles).

Check this out. & comments about Akberuddin.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ibrahim- ... 5650027022

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby gashish » 30 Dec 2012 17:21

ramana wrote:Looks like the Ind Muj cadre is based on the following profile:

Young Muslim males from Karnataka, South Maharastra, well educated and loners and some tenuous link to Hyderabad. All have training from ISI in TSP.

Is it possible these are remnants of Nizam's dominions in British India.


You hit the nail right on the head. Vestiges of Razaakars have grown into formidable threat in old towns of Nizam's dominions with sizable muslim population (>25%).

Hotspots:
Bidar, Gulbarga, Bijapur in North Karnataka
Nizambad, Nirmal, Medak, Adilabad, Zaheerabad in Telangana
Osmanabad, Udgir, Nanded, Beed in Marathwada (MH). Most of the recent jihadi/IM activites in Maharashtra trace their origins to the last 3 towns. MIM is active in all these towns.

I grew up in Udgir..a sleepy, peaceful town, nobody would even bother to notice it on map. After 1992 riots, radicalization in Muslim population just took off. Mosques/madarassas mushroomed all around the town. To my utter shock, the bomb for German bakery blast in Pune was built in Udgir. Local NCP politician's son was implicated in printing fake currencies. Folks, this is a small town (1 lakh pop) in the heartland of India. ATS has permanent base here now. Fountainheads of homegrown terrorism are no more limited to just metros!

Image

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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby svinayak » 30 Dec 2012 23:18

gashish wrote:
You hit the nail right on the head. Vestiges of Razaakars have grown into formidable threat in old towns of Nizam's dominions with sizable muslim population (>25%).

Hotspots:
Bidar, Gulbarga, Bijapur in North Karnataka
Nizambad, Nirmal, Medak, Adilabad, Zaheerabad in Telangana
Osmanabad, Udgir, Nanded, Beed in Marathwada (MH). Most of the recent jihadi/IM activites in Maharashtra trace their origins to the last 3 towns. MIM is active in all these towns.

I grew up in Udgir..a sleepy, peaceful town, nobody would even bother to notice it on map. After 1992 riots, radicalization in Muslim population just took off. Mosques/madarassas mushroomed all around the town. To my utter shock, the bomb for German bakery blast in Pune was built in Udgir. Local NCP politician's son was implicated in printing fake currencies. Folks, this is a small town (1 lakh pop) in the heartland of India. ATS has permanent base here now. Fountainheads of homegrown terrorism are no more limited to just metros!


There was a latent link to Pakistan for the last 50 years thru Gulf countries and other areas.
In Kerala and other parts all the links are exposed and they are open.

But the Nizam connection is deep and his money was used for funding Pakistan. After 1992 the Pakistan started the global jihad and primarily against India with Kashmir and APHC.

This was picked up by sleeper radicals and they connected with the handlers.

rajithn
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Re: Internal Security Watch

Postby rajithn » 30 Dec 2012 23:45

The Nizam used to fund KSA at a time when their Oil money wasnt enough. The Nizam of hyd used to send money for the maintenance and upkeep of their two holy places.


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