Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

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krishna_krishna
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby krishna_krishna » 22 Oct 2019 23:44

ramana wrote:Kit you are being deceived by global/strategic factors

I want India to play to break up Turkey.
Nothing less for peace in 21st Century.


India does not have other option , given Erdogan’s fantasy to have new clear bum.

That’s what they are in for with porkis.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vips » 23 Oct 2019 04:34

We know why Turkey would support an International Bhikari like Pakistan- It is not for Islamic Brotherhood it is for the Nuclear Bomb.

Pakistan's nuclear proliferation is once again coming under scrutiny following Turkey's reported quest for nuclear weapons. Buried for nearly 15 years after Pakistan's nuclear smuggler AQ Khan confessed to nuclear smuggling and illicit exports, the issue has resurfaced in recent days after Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was reported conveying his desire for Turkey to go nuclear at a party convention.

"Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads … (But the West insists) we can't have them. This, I cannot accept," Erdogan was reported telling his party faithful in remarks that have caused a stir in Washington. "If the United States could not prevent the Turkish leader from routing its Kurdish allies, how can it stop him from building a nuclear weapon or following Iran in gathering the technology to do so?" the New York Times asked in a report on Monday, pointing out that "already Turkey has the makings of a bomb program: uranium deposits and research reactors - and mysterious ties to the nuclear world's most famous black marketeer, Abdul Qadeer Khan of Pakistan."

According to "Nuclear Black Markets", a study of the Khan network by the London think-tank International Institute for Strategic Studies, companies in Turkey aided AQ Khan's covert effort by importing materials from Europe, making centrifuge parts and shipping finished products to customers, the report said. A riddle to this day is whether the Khan network had a fourth customer besides Iran, Libya and North Korea, the report wondered, pointing to intelligence reports that believe Turkey could possess "a considerable number of centrifuges of unknown origin" by virtue of being Khan's fourth customer. Khan's nuclear network extended to Malaysia too.

Pakistan got away with its nuclear proliferation in 2004-2005 because of perceived need by the Bush administration of Islamabad's help and the transit facility Pakistan offered in Washington's war on terror in Afghanistan. The country was caught pants down proliferating nuclear blueprints; but Khan was made to confess on TV and asked to fall on the sword by claiming he did it on his own accord without government sanction, even though it was apparent that he had used government machinery and facilities with the knowledge and concurrence of the Pakistani establishment.

Khan was subsequently confined to the doghouse (and virtually under house arrest) as Pakistan's then military ruler Pervez Musharraf sought to control the damage and rescue the country from infamy and punitive sanctions. He surfaced recently though, and in fact, in a recent public appearance at the University of Karachi, he spoke of Turkey and Malaysia as countries worth of being emulated by Pakistan.

Bereft of friends and allies in the global arena because of its support for terrorism as chronicled by global bodies such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)+ , Pakistan has lately latched on to the two countries to build an Islamist coalition. They were the only two countries that have stood up for Islamabad in recent weeks with even China, Pakistan's long time patron in its effort to constrain India, leery of Pakistan's embrace of extremism.

Currently headed by China, the recently concluded meeting of FATF asked Pakistan to "do more"+ in addressing the issue of terrorism financing while keeping it in a grey list. Amid much mirth in the social media, Pakistani leaders celebrated remaining on the grey list as a victory, claiming India's effort to put it in a blacklist had failed.

Khan similarly generated laughter when he spoke recently at a different event about the importance of research to students in Pakistan. Described in the Pakistan media has a "nuclear scientist", Khan is actually a metallurgist who has no significant research work to his name. From most accounts, his contribution to Pakistan's nuclear programme came via stealing blueprints of centrifuge technology from a Dutch firm he worked in, an effort that earned him the epithet "nuclear smuggler" in the chronicles of nuclear proliferation.

Whether Turkey has been a recipient of Khan's (and Pakistan's) nuclear largesse is something that has triggered interest among Washington's non-proliferation brigade that had hitherto not expressed much interest in the matter since Ankara - unlike Libya, Iran, and North Korea - was a Nato ally.

In fact, the NYT story wondered why Turkey would even conceivably want such arms, particularly since they already host an estimated 50 US nuclear weapons at Incirlik Air Base, while suggesting that with its advanced civilian nuclear programme and ties to Pakistan's AQ Khan, Ankara "could break out in relatively short order".

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chanakyaa » 23 Oct 2019 08:17

Behind all the war mongering talk, photo ops and new found confidence of Turkey (and manhood of sultan) may lie cold hard regional energy politics strongly influenced by Rus, which may go to all lengths to protect and foster.

Russia's proposed TurkStream 2 pipeline sparks Bulgaria, EU energy worries

Image

Philip
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Philip » 23 Oct 2019 10:58

Spot on! Megalomaniac and would be Ottoman sultan Erdo-gun, wants a bomb so he can tatoo on his member the nuclear symbol ! It is the slut-an of Stamboul who craves nuclear status to be able to look the Israelis in the face and sabre rattle. He more than the ayatollat too- mani in Teheran is who is the more dangerous.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby tandav » 23 Oct 2019 11:49

Turkey may well leave the EU and join up with Chinese military alliance like Pakistan and North Korea has. Perhaps under the overarching understanding that "The Confuscian "Zero God" is better than the Semitic "One true God" paradigm. Tongue in firmly in Cheek!

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Philip » 23 Oct 2019 12:14

The Turks ard not in the EU.Denied entry! Are in NATO though. May very well ditch NATO later on if Erdo- Gun stays on.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 23 Oct 2019 12:30

Philip wrote:The Turks ard not in the EU.Denied entry! Are in NATO though. May very well ditch NATO later on if Erdo- Gun stays on.


the turks have been seeking a visa less access to EU and UK for decades now.

no one wants these rabid islamists around to stink up the place and this rejection has hurt the turks badly because they see themselves as culturally superior and more "civilized" than most europeans because of the ottoman hangover.

This is also why they are contemptuous of Indians.

NATO has helped the turks to industrialize in high tech areas and create for themselves a very good MIC.

they are all dressed for the party but sadly they have no party to go to.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nam » 23 Oct 2019 13:20

European support to Turkey's MIC, has helped them tremendously. Had a chance to view their kit close up in one of the air shows, very TFTA.

Pak is hugging Turkey, to indirectly get rebadged European kit.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Oct 2019 13:41

nam wrote:European support to Turkey's MIC, has helped them tremendously. Had a chance to view their kit close up in one of the air shows, very TFTA.

Pak is hugging Turkey, to indirectly get rebadged European kit.

Much of it is screwdrivergiri, let's see where this goes but the Sultan is not being wise.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 23 Oct 2019 13:54

Vips wrote:We know why Turkey would support an International Bhikari like Pakistan- It is not for Islamic Brotherhood it is for the Nuclear Bomb.

Pakistan's nuclear proliferation is once again coming under scrutiny following Turkey's reported quest for nuclear weapons. Buried for nearly 15 years after Pakistan's nuclear smuggler AQ Khan confessed to nuclear smuggling and illicit exports, the issue has resurfaced in recent days after Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was reported conveying his desire for Turkey to go nuclear at a party convention.

"Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads … (But the West insists) we can't have them. This, I cannot accept," Erdogan was reported telling his party faithful in remarks that have caused a stir in Washington. "If the United States could not prevent the Turkish leader from routing its Kurdish allies, how can it stop him from building a nuclear weapon or following Iran in gathering the technology to do so?" the New York Times asked in a report on Monday, pointing out that "already Turkey has the makings of a bomb program: uranium deposits and research reactors - and mysterious ties to the nuclear world's most famous black marketeer, Abdul Qadeer Khan of Pakistan."

According to "Nuclear Black Markets", a study of the Khan network by the London think-tank International Institute for Strategic Studies, companies in Turkey aided AQ Khan's covert effort by importing materials from Europe, making centrifuge parts and shipping finished products to customers, the report said. A riddle to this day is whether the Khan network had a fourth customer besides Iran, Libya and North Korea, the report wondered, pointing to intelligence reports that believe Turkey could possess "a considerable number of centrifuges of unknown origin" by virtue of being Khan's fourth customer. Khan's nuclear network extended to Malaysia too.

Pakistan got away with its nuclear proliferation in 2004-2005 because of perceived need by the Bush administration of Islamabad's help and the transit facility Pakistan offered in Washington's war on terror in Afghanistan. The country was caught pants down proliferating nuclear blueprints; but Khan was made to confess on TV and asked to fall on the sword by claiming he did it on his own accord without government sanction, even though it was apparent that he had used government machinery and facilities with the knowledge and concurrence of the Pakistani establishment.

Khan was subsequently confined to the doghouse (and virtually under house arrest) as Pakistan's then military ruler Pervez Musharraf sought to control the damage and rescue the country from infamy and punitive sanctions. He surfaced recently though, and in fact, in a recent public appearance at the University of Karachi, he spoke of Turkey and Malaysia as countries worth of being emulated by Pakistan.

Bereft of friends and allies in the global arena because of its support for terrorism as chronicled by global bodies such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)+ , Pakistan has lately latched on to the two countries to build an Islamist coalition. They were the only two countries that have stood up for Islamabad in recent weeks with even China, Pakistan's long time patron in its effort to constrain India, leery of Pakistan's embrace of extremism.

Currently headed by China, the recently concluded meeting of FATF asked Pakistan to "do more"+ in addressing the issue of terrorism financing while keeping it in a grey list. Amid much mirth in the social media, Pakistani leaders celebrated remaining on the grey list as a victory, claiming India's effort to put it in a blacklist had failed.

Khan similarly generated laughter when he spoke recently at a different event about the importance of research to students in Pakistan. Described in the Pakistan media has a "nuclear scientist", Khan is actually a metallurgist who has no significant research work to his name. From most accounts, his contribution to Pakistan's nuclear programme came via stealing blueprints of centrifuge technology from a Dutch firm he worked in, an effort that earned him the epithet "nuclear smuggler" in the chronicles of nuclear proliferation.

Whether Turkey has been a recipient of Khan's (and Pakistan's) nuclear largesse is something that has triggered interest among Washington's non-proliferation brigade that had hitherto not expressed much interest in the matter since Ankara - unlike Libya, Iran, and North Korea - was a Nato ally.

In fact, the NYT story wondered why Turkey would even conceivably want such arms, particularly since they already host an estimated 50 US nuclear weapons at Incirlik Air Base, while suggesting that with its advanced civilian nuclear programme and ties to Pakistan's AQ Khan, Ankara "could break out in relatively short order".



Apparently its not just Turkey, but Malaysia also wants the nooclear bum !!.. wonder if the dim was peddling nuclear weapons at the UN of all places :eek:

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 23 Oct 2019 13:59

nam wrote:European support to Turkey's MIC, has helped them tremendously. Had a chance to view their kit close up in one of the air shows, very TFTA.

Pak is hugging Turkey, to indirectly get rebadged European kit.



European mil ind complex has supply chains integrated with the turkish companies, all is not screwdriver tech !.. give the devil his due. Janes recently reported a potential disruption in European weapons manufacturing if a turkish embargo extends longer

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby shashankk » 23 Oct 2019 14:44

Image

g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 23 Oct 2019 14:54

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-i ... on-2121290
"Exercise Utmost Caution": Government Issues Travel Advisory For Turkey
Relations between India and Turkey were strained lately after Turkey President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, at the 73rd UN General Assembly session, made statements against scrapping of Jammu and Kashmir's special status by New Delhi.
All India | ANI, October 23, 2019
NEW DELHI: India has issued an advisory to its citizens visiting Turkey, asking them to "exercise utmost caution" while visiting the Middle East country.
"Government of India has been receiving queries from Indian nationals on travelling to Turkey in view of the situation in the region. Although there have been no reports of untoward incidents in the country so far involving Indian nationals, travellers are requested to exercise utmost caution while travelling to Turkey," the Indian Embassy in Ankara tweeted.
......
_______________________________________________________________
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/g ... 2019-10-23
Govt issues travel advisory for Indian tourists visiting Turkey amid tense situation in country
The Indian govt has issued a travel advisory for all those who are visiting Turkey amid heightened tensions over the US pulling out troops from Syria.

Geeta Mohan, New Delhi, October 23, 2019
The Government of India has issued travel advisory for Indian tourists visiting Turkey over the situation in the Middle East nation following tensions with the US.
In the advisory, the government has said that it has been receiving queries from several Indian nationals who are travelling to Turkey about the situation in the country. "Although there have been no reports of any untoward incident in the country so far involving Indian nationals, travelers are requested to exercise utmost caution while travelling to Turkey," read the advisory.
The government has asked Indian nationals travelling to Turkey to get in touch with the Indian missions posted there for any assistance.
This comes amid tensions between the US and Turkey growing after President Donald Trump decided earlier this month to withdraw all 1,000 US troops from the region, a move widely criticized as a betrayal of Kurdish allies who had fought for years alongside US forces against Islamic State.
.....
Gautam

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vips » 23 Oct 2019 18:32

nam wrote:European support to Turkey's MIC, has helped them tremendously. Had a chance to view their kit close up in one of the air shows, very TFTA.

Pak is hugging Turkey, to indirectly get rebadged European kit.


They are not going to get anything for free. Turkey will get the Bomb from the Porkis and that will see the country graduate from being the sick man of Europe to the dead man of Europe. West block led sanctions and a Egypt style hard/soft coup are inevitable.

Lira is tanking and any hits in the tourism and exports will lead Turkey into a fall from which it cannot recover. Turkey is totally dependent on western markets and tourists and China simply cannot replace US/Europe as a benefactor for Turkey.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vips » 23 Oct 2019 18:35

kit wrote:
Vips wrote:We know why Turkey would support an International Bhikari like Pakistan- It is not for Islamic Brotherhood it is for the Nuclear Bomb.

Pakistan's nuclear proliferation is once again coming under scrutiny following Turkey's reported quest for nuclear weapons. Buried for nearly 15 years after Pakistan's nuclear smuggler AQ Khan confessed to nuclear smuggling and illicit exports, the issue has resurfaced in recent days after Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was reported conveying his desire for Turkey to go nuclear at a party convention.

"Some countries have missiles with nuclear warheads … (But the West insists) we can't have them. This, I cannot accept," Erdogan was reported telling his party faithful in remarks that have caused a stir in Washington. "If the United States could not prevent the Turkish leader from routing its Kurdish allies, how can it stop him from building a nuclear weapon or following Iran in gathering the technology to do so?" the New York Times asked in a report on Monday, pointing out that "already Turkey has the makings of a bomb program: uranium deposits and research reactors - and mysterious ties to the nuclear world's most famous black marketeer, Abdul Qadeer Khan of Pakistan."

According to "Nuclear Black Markets", a study of the Khan network by the London think-tank International Institute for Strategic Studies, companies in Turkey aided AQ Khan's covert effort by importing materials from Europe, making centrifuge parts and shipping finished products to customers, the report said. A riddle to this day is whether the Khan network had a fourth customer besides Iran, Libya and North Korea, the report wondered, pointing to intelligence reports that believe Turkey could possess "a considerable number of centrifuges of unknown origin" by virtue of being Khan's fourth customer. Khan's nuclear network extended to Malaysia too.

Pakistan got away with its nuclear proliferation in 2004-2005 because of perceived need by the Bush administration of Islamabad's help and the transit facility Pakistan offered in Washington's war on terror in Afghanistan. The country was caught pants down proliferating nuclear blueprints; but Khan was made to confess on TV and asked to fall on the sword by claiming he did it on his own accord without government sanction, even though it was apparent that he had used government machinery and facilities with the knowledge and concurrence of the Pakistani establishment.

Khan was subsequently confined to the doghouse (and virtually under house arrest) as Pakistan's then military ruler Pervez Musharraf sought to control the damage and rescue the country from infamy and punitive sanctions. He surfaced recently though, and in fact, in a recent public appearance at the University of Karachi, he spoke of Turkey and Malaysia as countries worth of being emulated by Pakistan.

Bereft of friends and allies in the global arena because of its support for terrorism as chronicled by global bodies such as the Financial Action Task Force (FATF)+ , Pakistan has lately latched on to the two countries to build an Islamist coalition. They were the only two countries that have stood up for Islamabad in recent weeks with even China, Pakistan's long time patron in its effort to constrain India, leery of Pakistan's embrace of extremism.

Currently headed by China, the recently concluded meeting of FATF asked Pakistan to "do more"+ in addressing the issue of terrorism financing while keeping it in a grey list. Amid much mirth in the social media, Pakistani leaders celebrated remaining on the grey list as a victory, claiming India's effort to put it in a blacklist had failed.

Khan similarly generated laughter when he spoke recently at a different event about the importance of research to students in Pakistan. Described in the Pakistan media has a "nuclear scientist", Khan is actually a metallurgist who has no significant research work to his name. From most accounts, his contribution to Pakistan's nuclear programme came via stealing blueprints of centrifuge technology from a Dutch firm he worked in, an effort that earned him the epithet "nuclear smuggler" in the chronicles of nuclear proliferation.

Whether Turkey has been a recipient of Khan's (and Pakistan's) nuclear largesse is something that has triggered interest among Washington's non-proliferation brigade that had hitherto not expressed much interest in the matter since Ankara - unlike Libya, Iran, and North Korea - was a Nato ally.

In fact, the NYT story wondered why Turkey would even conceivably want such arms, particularly since they already host an estimated 50 US nuclear weapons at Incirlik Air Base, while suggesting that with its advanced civilian nuclear programme and ties to Pakistan's AQ Khan, Ankara "could break out in relatively short order".



Apparently its not just Turkey, but Malaysia also wants the nooclear bum !!.. wonder if the dim was peddling nuclear weapons at the UN of all places :eek:


Why else would Turkey and Malysia support Pakistan? Even Imran is not so dim to expect free lunches.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ramana » 23 Oct 2019 19:35

Link
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKBN1X125V


SOCHI, Russia/ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey and Russia agreed on Tuesday to remove the Syrian Kurdish YPG militia to beyond 30 km (19 miles) from the Turkish border, after which their troops will jointly patrol a narrower strip of land in a “safe zone” Ankara has long sought in northern Syria.

Beginning at noon (0900 GMT) on Wednesday, Russian military police and Syrian border guards will move in to facilitate the removal of YPG members and weapons to beyond the zone in a mission that should take about six days, according to the deal.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hailed the deal as one that would end the bloodshed in the region, while Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said Turkey had no designs on Syrian territory as it continued to push the YPG south.




The YPG, the key component in the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) that have for years fought alongside U.S. troops against Islamic State, will also leave the towns of Tel Rifaat and Manbij under the deal struck between Erdogan and President Vladimir Putin in the Russian Black Sea resort of Sochi.

“The main aim of the operation is to take out PKK/YPG terror organizations from the area and to facilitate the return of Syrian refugees,” Erdogan told a joint news conference with Putin.

Ankara regards the YPG as terrorists because of their ties to the outlawed Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), which is waging an insurgency in southeast Turkey.




“This operation also guarantees Syria’s territorial integrity and political unity... We never had any interest in Syria’s land and sovereignty,” Erdogan added.

Once the YPG are removed, Turkish and Russian troops will conduct joint patrols in northern Syria within 10 km of the border, according to the deal.

Erdogan added that Ankara would also work with Moscow for the safe return of Syrian refugees now in Turkey.




So basically Russia is backing Turkey a NATO member to fight YPG which is US supported Kurdish militia in Syria.

Upends 800 years of history when Russia had to move their capital from Kiev to Moscovy to guard against Turkish attacks.
This created Ukraine and began the rise of Duchy of Moscovy to Imperial/Czarist Russia to FSU to Modern Russia.

All hail Czar Putin. :mrgreen:

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karthik S » 23 Oct 2019 19:44

ramana wrote:So basically Russia is backing Turkey a NATO member to fight YPG which is US supported Kurdish militia in Syria.

Upends 800 years of history when Russia had to move their capital from Kiev to Moscovy to guard against Turkish attacks.
This created Ukraine and began the rise of Duchy of Moscovy to Imperial/Czarist Russia to FSU to Modern Russia.

All hail Czar Putin. :mrgreen:


Ramana garu, are you referring to Mackinder's Heartland Theory?

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ramana » 23 Oct 2019 19:54

Its even before Mackinder.

The coven of globalists in Delhi shows the pivot of Eurasia taking shape and Mahan sea strategy is no longer valid on earth.
So competition will go to space.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 24 Oct 2019 18:24

India cuts defence exports to Turkey over Pakistan nexus


Oct 24, 2019

NEW DELHI: India is cutting down exports of military equipment and dual-use items like explosives and detonators to Turkey, given its growing defence ties with Pakistan and the possibility of such equipment being used against domestic interests.

..............................................................

The share of military equipment in Turkey-bound defence exports is minimum, but dual-use items like detonating cord, safety fuses and explosives used in construction and mining claim a larger part of the trade pie.

A study on weapons used by the ISIS in Syria conducted by Conflict Armament Research (CAR) in 2017 found that a large number of components used by the terror outfit to carry out IED attacks originated from India and had been exported to Turkey and other nations from where they found the way to the conflict zone.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 24 Oct 2019 19:34

https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/us-trump-orders-all-sanctions-turkey-lifted

What Happened: U.S. President Donald Trump has instructed the treasury secretary to lift all sanctions against Turkey after Ankara informed Washington that it completed its military operations in northeastern Syria, CNN reported Oct. 23.

Why It Matters: Despite Trump's announcement to lift sanctions on Turkey, many members of the U.S. Congress remain committed to punishing Ankara's military operations in northeastern Syria through sanctions or other penalties.

Background: Turkey launched an offensive against Kurdish forces in northern Syria earlier this month after the United States withdrew most of its assets from the area. On Oct. 22, Russia and Turkey agreed to joint security patrols in some of the territories where Kurdish forces are currently withdrawing.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Atmavik » 24 Oct 2019 19:54

^^ Trump,Putin and Erdogan have declared victory. Assad has moved his forces up. so everyone wins at the expense of the Kurds.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 25 Oct 2019 08:02

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/syria-turkey-will-pay-price-imperfect-buffer-kurds-russia-iran-united-states


HIGHLIGHTS
Turkey will expand its buffer zone along its border with Syria to buttress it from the effects of the Syrian civil war, but the expansion will bring repercussions from Syria, Russia, Iran, the United States and Europe.
Turkey will endure the risks of U.S. and European sanctions to gain as much as it can from a new, northeastern Syrian buffer zone, but it will not want a military clash with Syrian, Russian or Iranian forces that enter the northeast.
Turkey's expanded buffer zone will also be subject to insurgent attacks by the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces or the Islamic State.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 25 Oct 2019 18:36

Interesting threat, considering where it comes from:
Turkey's expanded buffer zone will also be subject to insurgent attacks by the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces or the Islamic State.

So are the White Helmet MCBH getting the money previously sent to the PKK, ($24.5M) to bite Erdogan on the musharraf? The blame will go on the SDF/SAA. A chemical attack a month, perhaps?

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Atmavik » 27 Oct 2019 01:10

What is Turkey's endgame in Syria?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0JEP15Zifk&t=599s

explains turkeys internal politics.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 30 Oct 2019 07:20

Not surprisingly, Erdogan's buddy and "progressive" Islamist Ilhan Omar did not vote yes on either of these resolutions with the excuses that there is no "academic consensus" on Armenian genocide and the resolution does not include earlier mass slaughters like trans Atlantic slave trade and native american genocides. :roll:

Notable votes today on recognizing the Armenian genocide and sanctioning Turkey:
- Ilhan Omar: "present" (abstain) on genocide, no on sanctions
- Greg Pence (VP Mike Pence's brother): no on both

US House of Representatives Rebukes Turkey With Votes On Sanctions, Armenian Genocide

The first measure was a symbolic resolution labeling the deaths of roughly 1.5 million Armenians from 1915 to 1923 in the Ottoman Empire, which is now modern-day Turkey, as a "genocide." It passed 405-11, with 3 members voting present.

Previous administrations prevented Congress from allowing a vote on this, arguing that it could damage the relationship with the Turkish government.

The second was a bipartisan bill that imposed sanctions on Turkish officials and prevents the sale of arms to Turkey for use in Syria. That passed overwhelmingly too – 403-16.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has cautioned that sanctions should not be a first resort so it's unclear whether either of these measures will be brought up for votes in the Senate.

There was no such caution in the House. Both measures passed with veto-proof majorities.

The Trump administration has not yet weighed in on the House resolution.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Karthik S » 30 Oct 2019 07:47

I am a bit concerned about Su 35 sale to turki. Pakis will definitely get a hand on them should the deal go through.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 30 Oct 2019 08:00

Karthik S wrote:I am a bit concerned about Su 35 sale to turki. Pakis will definitely get a hand on them should the deal go through.



"its not the sword but how you wield it that makes the difference"

if weapons were the only thing that wins wars Saudi should have won every war till now !

China already operates Su 35

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Hari Seldon » 30 Oct 2019 09:04

Turki is again overextending itself.

Its ekhanomy is in the dumps. Its 'image' abroad of being a western bestern all-lie in tatters.

What they need is a swift military jhappad. Being in NATO saved their sorry arses thus far but if a NATO member whoops turkish ass even if covertly or by fanning multiple insurgencies supported by money, arms and org, NATO can stay the heck out.

India can and should contribute to this effort in whatever way we can. After all Indians were there as part of the BIA when the brishits trampled the ottoman throne. Whilst the brishit whiteys took all the credit, we SDREs did the actual trampling onlee. Just saying.

Only.

Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 01 Nov 2019 03:55

India-Turkey: A glorified relationship that is rightfully turning realistic

Arrogance and extreme shortsightedness. Two terms that aptly describe Turkish President Erdogan’s anti-India rant at the UNGA recently. It was a strangely unimaginative discourse considering how Turkey stands to benefit economically by maintaining cordial terms with India. However, what Erdogan explicitly chose over India was a debt-ridden terror-infested Pakistan. A deeply foolish diplomatic strategy to say the least.

Since then India has almost uncharacteristically gone by the nature of its subdued foreign policy, taken strong offence to Turkey’s biased views on Kashmir and not shied away from expressing the same through both action and rhetoric.

No Tolerating Verbal ‘Ingress’

The first sign that India had taken immediate and strict cognisance of Ankara’s open support to Pakistan on Kashmir came when Prime Minister Modi met leaders of three nations – Cyprus, Greece and Armenia.

In support of Cyprus India came out with a blunt statement where it reiterated its support for the independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and unity of Cyprus. This statement was meant for Turkey as in 1974 Turkey had invaded Cyprus and occupied its northern part that it, later on, termed the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). This region is a staggering 36% of Cyprus’s total area.

Ever since relations between Cyprus and Turkey have been bitter and volatile. Turkey’s imperious nature is evident in the fact that it continues to keep over 30,000 troops in TRNC despite the region having absolutely no international recognition.

Prime Minister Modi then met Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis. Greece and Turkey also have unpleasant relations with the situation have deteriorated to such a degree that in 1996 they came perilously close to a conflict over the Greek islets of Imia in Greece; it was American intervention that prevented a war. Again, what reflects here is Turkey’s unconcealed disregard for the sanctity of neighbouring territory.

Then comes Armenia. The Turks of the Ottoman Empire had carried out a genocide of millions of Armenians in 1915 which is till date the reason for distasteful relations between the two nations.

The three bilateral meetings assumed immense significance owing to the relations these countries have with Turkey. They were essentially India’s way of saying to Turkey that if you push your nose into our internal business then we have ample ways to open the door to your closet of crimes.

A few days later came Turkey’s military offensive in Syria against the Kurds. In a swift reaction, the MEA said and I quote: “We are deeply concerned at the unilateral military offensive by Turkey in north-east Syria.” New Delhi asked Ankara to employ restraint and respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Syria after which the Syrian ambassador gave a categorical statement saying that what India does in Kashmir is its own business. Criticism of the Turkish airstrikes signalled yet again that India wasn’t going to dilly-dally in its approach in countering those who made it a point to wrongly denounce India’s actions on its own territory.

In June, Turkey’s TAIS had given the lowest bid for a contract to manufacture five 45,000-tonne fleet support vessels for the Indian Navy. Despite winning the contract, there began floating news after Erdogan’s statements that India had put the $2.3 billion deal on halt. It now seems that the deal is as good as dead credit not just to Turkey’s latest anti-India stand but also because of security concerns as Turkish shipyards manufacture ships for Pakistan as well.

India’s holistic response was visible when the government issued a travel warning to Indians visiting Turkey. Tourism is a significant source of income for any country. In the first eight months of 2019, 1.5 lakh Indians visited Turkey, a rise of 55% from 2018 for the same period, and almost 30 destination weddings took place in Turkey which again rises from 2018. A reduction in tourists will negatively affect Ankara.

Tourism also has a huge cultural impact. Visiting a foreign nation denotes a tacit acknowledgement – or a curiosity at the least – towards the culture, people and lifestyle of that nation. This creates a silent soft spot and admiration for that nation and its people in the minds of tourists. This cultural influence is one of the pillars to being a true superpower. For example, America’s drastic and consistent ascent to superpower status is heavily dependent on its cultural allure which is absent in the case of China or Russia. (India is the only other large country that possesses a cultural aura that it is now exploiting for greater global clout). When tourism falls or negativity is created around a country then, as a result, its soft power takes a hit.

India’s firmness of purpose exemplified with its decision to reduce defence exports to Turkey. Even though India doesn’t export much, it does send dual-use items like detonating cord, safety fuses and explosives. India’s actions on such a seemingly trivial aspect speak a lot of its disappointment and anger over Turkey’s statements.

What made bigger news than any of the above-mentioned points was Prime Minister Modi cancelling his trip to Turkey. It would’ve been his first visit to the transcontinental country since assuming the mantle of prime ministership. To talk and express discontent about a matter is one thing; to signal that you don’t want to talk at all delivers an altogether different message. The cancellation of the visit was a pristinely clear message to Erdogan that India isn’t going to obsequiously carry-on relations if Turkey cannot respect India’s sensitivities.

One would naturally be curious about why would Turkey completely shift its allegiance towards Pakistan. The answer could lie in three words – nukes, arms, and Gulen.

Erdogan recently made his desire for acquiring nuclear weapons distinctly clear. It is known that Ankara had asked for India’s diplomatic support in its quest to becoming a nuclear power and also for technical help, and on both fronts, New Delhi had denied assistance. This leaves Pakistan, a nuclear-armed nation that itself got its nuclear technology through smuggling, as an idyllic option for obtaining relevant know-how. Pakistan, aided by the likes of China, could well help Turkey. China will see its interest in this chain of events…a sure-shot chance to break away a NATO member creating fissures in Western alliances (not to forget Russia who has sold the S-400 missile systems to Turkey thus souring relations between Turkey and America). However, what will be interesting to see is what America does of its 50 nuclear weapons stored at Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base.

Next is the issue of arms. Turkey has a burgeoning defence industry and Pakistan has been and continues to grow as a purchaser of arms. Turkey is building 4 MILGEM medium-sized warships for Pakistan as per a $1 billion deal. It is repairing two of Pakistan’s five submarines. The biggest deal between the two was to sell 30 T129 ATAK helicopter gunships to Pakistan for $1.5 billion. However, this deal was blocked by the US due to licence issues. Turkey is now holding a Pakistan-Turkey defence equipment exhibition with Pakistan as its host for the first time. Turkey sees the potential for defence collaboration with Pakistan, but its surprisingly parochial way of looking at things is evident; Pakistan can never match India’s purchasing power when it comes to arms yet Turkey chose to risk all ties with India.

The last aspect is personal. Fethullah Gulen is Erdogan’s political adversary, and Erdogan blames him for attempting a coup against him in 2016. Where does India come in all this? The Turkish dispensation believes that Gulen-controlled schools and institutes operate in many places in India and the Indian government has refused to close them down.

Even though India and Turkey have maintained rather cordial relations over time, Turkey has repeatedly acted against Indian interests. From supplying American-origin weapons to Pakistan during the 1965 and 1971 wars to opposing India’s entry into the NSG, from supporting Pakistan’s line on Kashmir to preventing it from being blacklisted by the FATF, the India-Turkey relationship is probably more of a feel-good facade than anything else.

What is strikingly similar between Pakistan and Turkey is that both occupy neighbouring land (TRNC and PoK), both have bad relations with neighbours (Turkey with Greece, Armenia and Cyprus, and Pakistan with India, Afghanistan and Iran), both have conducted genocides (Turkey of Armenians and Pakistan of Bengali Muslims), and both support terrorists (Turkey backs ISIS and Pakistan a plethora of outfits). Both seem to be made for each other!

It was about time that ties with Turkey were reduced for nothing comes above national interest to a proud nation, and fortunately, India is now portraying itself to be one.


srin
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby srin » 01 Nov 2019 09:34

If there was anybody else in the white house, I'd have thought that US wanted to Saddam'ify Erdogan: ambiguous stand on the invasion of neighbouring region, and then attacking it for not withdrawing and finally, hunting down the leader who had nuclear dreams (NATO or no NATO).

But that's too deep for the current whitehouse.

Cain Marko
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Cain Marko » 01 Nov 2019 10:11

Nukes for TST? Russia might have a thing or two to say about that

Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 01 Nov 2019 20:54

This piece proves that pro-turkey policy makers are all wrong and mischaracterizing Turkey. Turkophile James Jeffrey basically tried to implement a policy based on what pro-turkey lobbyists are telling them about Turkey and got proven wrong and humiliated by Turkey. Jeffrey thought that turkey is pro-American and anti-Iran and telling turkey that "the US would leave Syria if turkey invades" would dissuade turkey from invading :rotfl:
What a complete moron living in a NATO fantasy. turkey is openly anti-american and helps Iran to evade US sanctions.

It took almost a year, but a simple shift in US stance led to Turkey’s assault against Syria’s Kurds


Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 01 Nov 2019 21:19

Did Turkey Know Where Baghdadi Was Hiding ?

As U.S. intelligence analysts comb through electronic and paper documents seized last weekend from the lair of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, one question is foremost on their minds: How was the Islamic State leader able to find refuge in a Syrian province secured by the Turkish military and its proxy forces?

Three U.S. national security officials told me that they want to know more about Turkey’s knowledge of Baghdadi’s whereabouts. One important task for the team now going through the material seized in the Baghdadi raid and another raid that killed organization’s spokesman, Abul Hassan al-Muhajir, is to map out the relationship between Turkey’s intelligence service and Islamic State.

Both men were hiding close to the Turkish border in Syrian territory. Muhajir was found in Jarabulus, a town in the Aleppo province patrolled by Turkish forces. Baghdadi was found in Idlib province, where there are numerous Turkish military checkpoints.

It’s possible, of course, that two of the most wanted terrorists in the world managed to slip under the noses of a NATO ally. But U.S. intelligence officials are suspicious. And this suspicion is based not just on where Muhajir and Baghdadi were found in Syria.

In the beginning of the Syrian civil war, the Turkish intelligence service allowed foreign recruits from Europe and Africa to travel through Turkey into Syria. At the time, Turkey pursued a policy of regime change in Syria, supporting many jihadist fighters against the government of Bashar al-Assad.

More recently, the U.S. government identified at least one senior Islamic State official as based in Turkey. The U.S. Treasury noted in August 2017 that the organization’s finance minister had relocated from Iraq to Turkey earlier that year. As one U.S. official who works closely on Syria policy told me: “Turkey has done everything in its power to support the worst actors in the Syrian civil war.”

Tom Joscelyn, a senior fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, told me the Turks have been known to raid al Qaeda and Islamic State safehouses and redoubts. More often, he said, U.S. sources find cases of jihadists “roaming free,” raising the question of what Turkey’s real policy is on Islamic State.

All of this invites a comparison to Pakistan. In the 1980s, the CIA worked with Pakistan to support jihadist rebels fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, just as in the first years of the Syrian civil war the CIA indirectly supported jihadist elements fighting the Assad regime. Over time, U.S. interests diverged from those of its ally, with the rise of al Qaeda and the Taliban in Pakistan and Islamic State in Turkey. Osama bin Laden was found in 2011 in Abbottabad, where Pakistan’s most prestigious military academy is located. Baghdadi was found in Idlib, an area of Syria under responsibility of the Turkish military.

To this day, the U.S. government has not accused Pakistan’s intelligence services of hiding bin Laden, though the U.S. military considers elements of Pakistan’s military intelligence services to be working with the Taliban in Afghanistan. And in the eight years since the raid on Abbottabad, once-strained U.S.-Pakistani relations have stabilized; earlier this year, Trump invited the Pakistani prime minister to the White House.

A similar dynamic may soon play out with Turkey. Trump has invited Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to the White House this month, although Erdogan said he may not accept the invitation after the House passed a resolution condemning Turkey for its role in the Armenian genocide. Meanwhile, the Turkish military has violated an earlier cease-fire in northern Syria and resumed its campaign against Kurdish civilians, according to Syrian Kurdish leaders.


It was Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, remember, that cultivated the source that was able to find Baghdadi. U.S. intelligence analysts may soon find out if the Turks knew where he was all along.

vishvak
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vishvak » 01 Nov 2019 21:37

To this day, the U.S. government has not accused Pakistan’s intelligence services of hiding bin Laden

What stops India to directly help Syria/Iraq against Turk invasion. Why can't there be such demands in UN general ly except the fact that people (in many countries) may not like current boundaries.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Parasu » 01 Nov 2019 23:27

Karthik S wrote:I am a bit concerned about Su 35 sale to turki. Pakis will definitely get a hand on them should the deal go through.


There is no sale of Su-35 on cards. At least not in the near future.
Turkey defence minister Hulusi Akar has already stated that Turkey is part of the F-35 programme and wants its rights to be restored. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump does this for some $$$.
Most of turkey antics are directed at playing Russia and the US against each other. And Erdogan has played this game very well. US and Russia have helped with their stupidity.

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Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Peregrine » 11 Nov 2019 16:31

Turkey begins deporting 'foreign terrorist fighters': ministry – AFP

Image

Turkey has deported an American foreign terrorist fighter, and seven more from Germany are to be expelled later in the week, an interior ministry spokesman said Monday.

"One American foreign terrorist fighter was deported from Turkey after completing the procedures," said spokesman Ismail Catakli, according to state news agency Anadolu.

"The travel programme of seven foreign terrorist fighters of German origin was completed at the repatriation centres. They will be deported on November 14," he added.

Turkey has criticised Western countries for refusing to repatriate their citizens who left to join the militant Islamic State group (IS) in Syria and Iraq, and stripping some of them of their citizenship.

Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu said last week that Turkey had nearly 1,200 foreign members of IS in custody, and had captured 287 during its recent operation in northern Syria.

"We will send three, five, 10 people back," Soylu said on Friday.

"There is no need to try to escape from it, we will send them back to you. Deal with them how you want," he added.

It remains unclear whether Turkey will be able to repatriate those who have lost their citizenship.

Although the 1961 New York Convention made it illegal to leave people stateless, several countries, including Britain and France, have not ratified it, and recent cases have triggered prolonged legal battles.

Britain alone has stripped more than 100 people of their citizenship for allegedly joining militant groups abroad.

Cheers Image

kit
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 12 Nov 2019 08:37

So the INC opens office in Turkey , i am wondering about their game plan., creating a sunni / shia divide ? The official Indian position is firmly in the Saudi/ UAE camp, with a professed hostility to the Turks despite initial overtures. That the Turks seem indifferent is more rooted in practicality i feel ., with Erdogan trying to get nuke weapon designs from the pakis. Maybe the INC think they can get some funds this way from the Turkish intelligence services ?

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Bart S » 12 Nov 2019 15:26

kit wrote:So the INC opens office in Turkey , i am wondering about their game plan., creating a sunni / shia divide ? The official Indian position is firmly in the Saudi/ UAE camp, with a professed hostility to the Turks despite initial overtures. That the Turks seem indifferent is more rooted in practicality i feel ., with Erdogan trying to get nuke weapon designs from the pakis. Maybe the INC think they can get some funds this way from the Turkish intelligence services ?


For decades the Gulf nations played host to Paki supported actors who were inimical to Indian interests. In the last decade or so, the relationship between the UAE-Saudi block and India has transformed dramatically into a quiet alliance of sorts, which can be seen from the deportation of many terrorists to India and pushing the remaining ones out from their territory.

That former role has been taken over by Malaysia to some extent but for the most part Turkey. Turkey is where much of the hostile propaganda and fake news about Kashmir emanates - not just the extremely biased TRT world, but many of the handles of Kashmiri separatists (including the account claiming to be Geelani's). Many Kashmiri separatists have migrated there under the guise of 'studies' etc, helped by generous Turkish scholarships, and Turkey is actively trying to subvert Indian Muslims as well through attractive scholarships that target gullible people so that they can be turned and radicalized. Keep in mind that Erdogandu is a rabid jihadi who supports ISIS and has worked to roll back every bit of Atatürk's secular state foundations, including doing petty and cheap stuff like turning the Hagia Sophiya (a church that the Muslims occupied and turned into a Mosque, which Atatürk turned into a Museum as a dignified compromise) back into a mosque.

So in that background, given what the INC has become of late (evidenced by the behaviour of Ghulam Nabi Azad and Adhir Ranjan Chowdhry after A370 abrogation for example or Siddhu volunteering to do the ISI's bidding), is it any surprise that they are establishing a presence there?

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vikas » 12 Nov 2019 16:08

What would be Turkey's interest in messing with India beyond general disdain for Kaffirs ? They are not really rolling in petro dollars nor India is Hindustan anymore. Hell, they don't even supply Oil to India nor have many Indian workers to have any leverage on us.
Even ordinary Indian Muslim has no reverence for Turks like they have for Arabs.
On Top, they aren't even that important player on geo-strategic level and are disliked by Arabs. So what gives ?


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