Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

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chola
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chola » 12 Nov 2019 16:28

Vikas wrote:What would be Turkey's interest in messing with India beyond general disdain for Kaffirs ? They are not really rolling in petro dollars nor India is Hindustan anymore. Hell, they don't even supply Oil to India nor have many Indian workers to have any leverage on us.
Even ordinary Indian Muslim has no reverence for Turks like they have for Arabs.
On Top, they aren't even that important player on geo-strategic level and are disliked by Arabs. So what gives ?


Turks have superiority complex in that they see themselves as inheritors of the Ottomans when they were basically the rulers of the Ummah.

They also themselves as closer in appearance and demeanor to Europeans and thus superior to Asiatic riffraff like the arabs. Hence the decades of appealing to be part of the EU. Unlike the arabs who participate in Asian games with desis, chini-types, southeast Asians, etc. the Turks play exclusively with Europeans in things like the European Cup.

All this contributes to a delusion of grandeur where in the Turkish hierarchy India is not only kaffir but is just one of a horde of Asian nations the quasi Euro Turks look down on.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Bart S » 12 Nov 2019 16:32

^All true but does not explain why they favour the Pakis over us to the point of carrying out subversive activities against India for the Pakis. That is down to Erdogan and his rabid Islamism unfortunately. Same reason as why CAIR or Ilhan Omar hate us.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 12 Nov 2019 17:42

Vikas wrote:What would be Turkey's interest in messing with India beyond general disdain for Kaffirs ? They are not really rolling in petro dollars nor India is Hindustan anymore. Hell, they don't even supply Oil to India nor have many Indian workers to have any leverage on us.
Even ordinary Indian Muslim has no reverence for Turks like they have for Arabs.
On Top, they aren't even that important player on geo-strategic level and are disliked by Arabs. So what gives ?


They have access to western weapons tech and production expertise., Pakistan has nuclear weapons and Malaysia can provide numbers and access to resources in Asia better than PK. Somehow they think it can all work out in a sort of neo Islamic revival

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby fanne » 12 Nov 2019 18:06

Vikas wrote:What would be Turkey's interest in messing with India beyond general disdain for Kaffirs ? They are not really rolling in petro dollars nor India is Hindustan anymore. Hell, they don't even supply Oil to India nor have many Indian workers to have any leverage on us.
Even ordinary Indian Muslim has no reverence for Turks like they have for Arabs.
On Top, they aren't even that important player on geo-strategic level and are disliked by Arabs. So what gives ?


The assessment is quite wrong, I will take that you have interacted very less with the Indian peaceful crowd in life to know about it. Many of the Rop rulers of India in the past where of Turkish origin.
Indian converts have high regard for Turkey. In political and military space they do hold it above their perceived fore fathers

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 12 Nov 2019 18:35

Bart S wrote:^All true but does not explain why they favour the Pakis over us to the point of carrying out subversive activities against India for the Pakis. That is down to Erdogan and his rabid Islamism unfortunately. Same reason as why CAIR or Ilhan Omar hate us.


Turks view Pakis as the remnants of past Turkic rule/legacy in Indian subcontinent which jells with Pakis own self perception of them being descendants of turkic invaders. Some secular Turks also cite how pre-partition Indian muslims (which they now equate with Pakis) helped them during their war of independence . That is a myth. Indian muslims being Islamists supported Khilafat movement (restoration of ottoman rule) but not Ataturk's abolition of khilafat and his war of Independence. But that myth is strong in some turkish people. For turkish AKP Islamists, the fact that Indian muslims resisted abolition of ottoman rule is even more proff that they are 'blood brothers'.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 13 Nov 2019 07:28

Time for new Bollywood movies to credit India Turkish relations and "toilet" the pakis., they do like Bollywood.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vikas » 13 Nov 2019 14:55

fanne wrote:
Vikas wrote:What would be Turkey's interest in messing with India beyond general disdain for Kaffirs ? They are not really rolling in petro dollars nor India is Hindustan anymore. Hell, they don't even supply Oil to India nor have many Indian workers to have any leverage on us.
Even ordinary Indian Muslim has no reverence for Turks like they have for Arabs.
On Top, they aren't even that important player on geo-strategic level and are disliked by Arabs. So what gives ?


The assessment is quite wrong, I will take that you have interacted very less with the Indian peaceful crowd in life to know about it. Many of the Rop rulers of India in the past where of Turkish origin.
Indian converts have high regard for Turkey. In political and military space they do hold it above their perceived fore fathers


Yes, Very limited interactions especially after I became a certified Uber Hindutwadi :)
But I am surprised with your observation. If that is the case then we are looking at 3 pillars of Ummah reverence..
1. Arabs
2. Turkey
3. Iran (Shia)

Isn't it scary that most of us aam abduls have no memory or even knowledge of Turkish origin Kings of Delhi and yet they are revered by Palacefuls.
But what is Turk game plan. Emotions don't count for anything in realpolitik.
What can they gain out of Na-Pakis in this highly volatile venture or was it historical memory of weak India who would whine and go back to business as usual.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 13 Nov 2019 15:23

have any of you guys come across local pissfools wearing the turkish fez ( with a tassel, no less!!) instead of the standard madrasa issue skull caps

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 13 Nov 2019 15:30

Vikas wrote: Isn't it scary that most of us aam abduls have no memory or even knowledge of Turkish origin Kings of Delhi and yet they are revered by Palacefuls.
But what is Turk game plan. Emotions don't count for anything in realpolitik.
What can they gain out of Na-Pakis in this highly volatile venture or was it historical memory of weak India who would whine and go back to business as usual.


Indian Kings ( Delhi sultanate, Mughals) were Central Asian Turkic not Anatolian Turkish.


Turkic - elating to or denoting a large group of closely related Altaic languages of western and central Asia, including Turkish, Azerbaijani, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uighur, Uzbek, and Tatar.

Turkish - Turkics of Anatolia

This distinction is important . Anatolian Turks never ruled India. Central Asian Turkics (Uzbeks for example) did

Anatolian Turks are similar to Pakis.

Pakis - Converted Hindus who got Islamized
Anatolian Turks - Converted Greeks (for the most part) who got Turkified and Islamized.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby fanne » 13 Nov 2019 21:10

All these semantics that this turk or that turk is lost on the less informed Aam Abduls. The amm abduls belief that the turks ruled them (before Mughals). Please see attached link (and I am here not discussing the truth but the belief that is held by IM) -
http://www.westeastinstitute.com/journa ... -Sahli.pdf

More importantly what is the Turkish impact on Modern India. The khilafat movement was inspired by Turkey (no arap or any other connection). It was also perhaps the first movement after 1857. The mopalla riots can be then by extension led at its feet. Why do not hear much of Turkey from 1920 to 1947 then - cause they lost the WW1 and were on the wrong side of history and England, and for IM to hang their cocktail on Turkey would not have taken them far.

The most visible offspring of that movement and a hardcore Islamist (and a traitor if I may add) was one VP - HA, who almost became V, and Congress is the vessel that carries that immoral and illegal connection under the surface (and hence opening of Cong office in Turkey, read it in this respect). Khilafat movement leaders were blood relative of HA. He holds Turkisht line (with other M leaders in cong).

The Islamization of Cong is in full view - Pappu running to Wayanad (where more than half voter is IM), Turkish connection - Money, sovereign help - getting murkier with all kinds of deal, who knows how far that goes. If anything bad done to our leader by TSP, and they know they are toast, we will have a full blown war, with very bad consequences, but TSP will cease to exist after that. But if same is done by Turkey (and cong would be playing for that angle), it is far and strong and part of NATO and Russian munna right now. We do not have many options to punish.

rgds,
fanne

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 14 Nov 2019 01:51

I see where you are coming from. If IMs hold certain views which are contrary to facts, then it would be in our interest to demolish them. Just like we would demolish IM belief that muslims ruled India for 1400 years and everything good in India is because of mughals.

Regarding Turkey, We could start by giving moral and diplomatic support to Kurdish self determination from turkish occupation and allow them to operate their offices out of India in addition to giving Kurdish students from Turkey scholarships and study opportunities in India.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vishvak » 14 Nov 2019 09:52

Didn't the sc state that waqf is not legal successor of Mughal s and the Pakis claim that they are the real inheritor s.

Maybe a school in Afghanistan accredited by goi will make a few things clear.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby sum » 14 Nov 2019 10:00

fanne wrote:All these semantics that this turk or that turk is lost on the less informed Aam Abduls. The amm abduls belief that the turks ruled them (before Mughals). Please see attached link (and I am here not discussing the truth but the belief that is held by IM) -
http://www.westeastinstitute.com/journa ... -Sahli.pdf
rgds,
fanne

In Kannada slang, muslims are called "Turka-ru" meaning Turks.

So, it is a widespread belief among most aam-aadmi that local Muslims= derived from Turkish folks( atleast in Karnataka, I'm sure)

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Parasu » 14 Nov 2019 19:35

The Mamluks were mostly Turkish. When Islam was expanding, it was common practice to murder the resistance fighters, take women to harems and children as slaves. These children were later used as soldiers for wars of conquest.

The salve dynasty in India therefore could be claimed to be of Turkish origin.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 14 Nov 2019 20:03

In Telugu too, muslims are called "Turka-vallu"/"Turk-ollu". Telugus introduction of muslims just like for Kannadigas is through turkic Delhi sultanate and hence those names for them. Here 'turk' refers to turkic not turkish.

Also i know Turkic and Turkish are used interchangeably among many people especially in India but there is significant difference. A Uzbeg or anyone from Central Asian Stans wont call themselves Turkish but Turkic.

Turkish = a subsection of Turkics. Anatolian Turkics.
Turkic is like large language family like Indo-Europeans
Turkish is a subsection of it like Germanics .
All Turkish are Turkics but not all Turkics are Turkish.

Delhi Sultanate, Mughals/Timurids were all Turkics but not Turkish.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 Nov 2019 21:07

Great discussion, above,
1. Another thing not mentioned so far above is the role of british indian army in the rout of ottoman empire esp in the Mesopotamian campaign. Indian forces were in palestine too..so that humiliations also add to the psyche in tacit hatred passed over generations.
2. Also, turkey after ww1 and ataturk was kind of cut to size and its role was primarily to check communist expansion towards ME & africa. The lack of money with them and excessive money with KSA, UAE and Iraq led to the influence being driven out by KSA. Anyways modern world order was to put KSA above other power 2 centers, viz Iran and turkey

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nandakumar » 14 Nov 2019 21:41

sum wrote:
fanne wrote:All these semantics that this turk or that turk is lost on the less informed Aam Abduls. The amm abduls belief that the turks ruled them (before Mughals). Please see attached link (and I am here not discussing the truth but the belief that is held by IM) -
http://www.westeastinstitute.com/journa ... -Sahli.pdf
rgds,
fanne

In Kannada slang, muslims are called "Turka-ru" meaning Turks.

So, it is a widespread belief among most aam-aadmi that local Muslims= derived from Turkish folks( atleast in Karnataka, I'm sure)

In Tamil, too. The muslims are referred to as "tulukkans". The poet Subrahmanya Bharati referred to the muslims up north of India in one of his poems as the custom of the 'dilli turukkiar vazhakkam', meaning that this is the habit of the Turks of Delhi.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vishvak » 15 Nov 2019 10:20

The amm abduls belief that the turks ruled them (before Mughals).

Ruling, in those days of dark age in Euro p and worse in arap lands, means providing fodder for slavemongering and then usurping power by infighting. Why should we give shyt about barbarians; and why not help some country bomb nuke blackmarket materials smuggling by jihadis. we missed a chance when Pakis got nukes.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby sanjayc » 15 Nov 2019 10:59

fanne wrote:
Vikas wrote:What would be Turkey's interest in messing with India beyond general disdain for Kaffirs ? They are not really rolling in petro dollars nor India is Hindustan anymore. Hell, they don't even supply Oil to India nor have many Indian workers to have any leverage on us.
Even ordinary Indian Muslim has no reverence for Turks like they have for Arabs.
On Top, they aren't even that important player on geo-strategic level and are disliked by Arabs. So what gives ?


The assessment is quite wrong, I will take that you have interacted very less with the Indian peaceful crowd in life to know about it. Many of the Rop rulers of India in the past where of Turkish origin.
Indian converts have high regard for Turkey. In political and military space they do hold it above their perceived fore fathers


AFAIK, the Delhi Sultanate kings were all of Afghan heritage. Mughals (corruption of the word "Mongol"), though Turkic people, were from Central Asia (Uzbekistan). Nothing to do with today's Turkey.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 23 Nov 2019 20:06

We should host one on Kurdistan

Turkey hosts international conference on Kashmir

Turkey’s Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) lawmaker Erkan Akcay said that world faces six key problems: Jerusalem, Cyprus, Kashmir, Crimea, Kashgar (Xinjiang).

“If these issues are solved the world will become a better place to live,” he said.

According to him, Kashmir has become the frontier of U.S.-China hegemony.

“Israel sells weapons to India, while U.S. backs India to counter China,” he said.

Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development (AK) Party lawmaker Muhammet Amin Abasoglu said the hopes and wishes of Kashmiris are integral to any solution.

“1972 Shimla Agreement created a status quo and both – India and Pakistan – should fulfill conditions of this agreement,” he said, noting that the pact bound both parties to resolve the dispute through negotiations.

President of Turkey’s Religious Affairs Ali Erbas recalled his school days, saying: “We would raise slogans in favor of struggle of Kashmiris."

President of Turkey’s Court of Cassation Ismail Rustu Cirit termed Kashmir as a “bleeding wound”.

Former Iranian Prime Minister Mir-Hossein Mousavi said: “Kashmir dispute has affected many aspects of the region, including development, and the people of Kashmir as well as Pakistan have suffered a lot for 73 years now.”

“[But] Israel has been invited to the region which is dangerous,” he said, referring to growing India-Israel bilateral relations.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby sum » 23 Nov 2019 20:22

I think all gloves are off now and Turkey should be treated as a enemy state at par with TSP

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vishvak » 23 Nov 2019 20:30

What's their shyt against Cyprus?! Isn't it under Greece/NATO protection.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 23 Nov 2019 20:32

sum wrote:I think all gloves are off now and Turkey should be treated as a enemy state at par with TSP


In addition to turkey which is openly hostile to India, Iran too is playing double games. There was a active Iranian participation in that conference. Only 3 countries participated in it. Pakis, Turks, Iranians.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 23 Nov 2019 20:35

vishvak wrote:What's their shyt against Cyprus?! Isn't it under Greece/NATO protection.


Turkish occupied Northern Cyprus is not recognized by anyone except themselves. Northern Cyprus is considered by the international community to be part of the Republic of Cyprus.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vikas » 23 Nov 2019 21:52

The more Turks & Persians act against Bharat, More they will push Bharat into Arab camp.
Iranian mullahs were always playing double games with India knowing that Arabs were indifferent to India.
Since Arabs have gone out of the way to welcome Modi Ji, India dependence on Iran has gone drastically down. There is no need to balance Sunni-Shia anymore.

As far Turkey, We really could not care less.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 23 Nov 2019 22:52

Turks are the principal allies of Pakis apart from Chinese. A message needs to be sent to them and Iranians. Both of them have problem with the Kurds and cooperate in suppressing Kurds. A conference on Kurdistan with representatives from Turkish occupied and Iranian occupied regions can do wonders. For Iranians, there is also Baluch separatism too which they suppress with cooperation from Pakis.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2019 03:12

Vikas wrote:The more Turks & Persians act against Bharat, More they will push Bharat into Arab camp.
Iranian mullahs were always playing double games with India knowing that Arabs were indifferent to India.
Since Arabs have gone out of the way to welcome Modi Ji, India dependence on Iran has gone drastically down. There is no need to balance Sunni-Shia anymore.

As far Turkey, We really could not care less.


Arabs were never indifferent to India and they influenced policies via the sunni roughnecks as did the iranians via the shia networks. The arabs and iranians think that the Hindus are civilizationally inferior.

even the turks think similarly and try to do the same thing- change or influence policies in their favor as do the indonesians and the malays.

The arabs wisened up and put their money where their mouth is by investing while the iranians went the full monte blackmail route trying to get everything for nothing.

Both the arabs and the iranians will want to maximize their influence on the Indian state as well as protect their investments.

It's a kind of arab economic invasion being done by "trade" and some diplomacy, knowing well that they hold a large percentage of Indian labor captive.

The growing might of India's economic power as well as military power is making them very very cautious as is the new political power structure and the confident leadership of Modi, especially the Modi 2 version.

The fast growing Indo US relations is causing all these states to rethink their age old India stance.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vikas » 25 Nov 2019 09:51

^^ Very true Chetak Ji. India of the past was poor, in need of places where Indian labor could be absorbed and Arabs/Persians were flush with Petro dollars.
By Indifferent what I meant was that they were never trying to get India in their camp and it was mostly Paki lens by which India was being Judged.

To be Honest, other than local Islamists, most of us Indians too don't hold Arabs/Iranians/Turks in high esteem.
With Indian economic and Military might becoming too large for SAARC region, countries will take positions as per new realities. A poor cousin never carries any respect is an old adage.
As Rony Ji mentioned, raising few local Kurd scholars and organizing 'Free Kurdistan' festival in JNU could be a good start. Nest stop could be 'Gülen's School festival' and some award to "Sufi Saint" Fethullah Gulen by the clowns in Ajmer.
After all two can play a game.

As much as it is considered Chanikian by some, Neutral positions don't always help and sometimes one needs to stand in a definite camp.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Aditya_V » 25 Nov 2019 10:14

Just add my 2 cents, in Tamil also amoung Hindus, muslims are referred to as "Tulkann"- probably a reference to Turkish origins.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 25 Nov 2019 10:59

Vikas wrote:^^ Very true Chetak Ji. India of the past was poor, in need of places where Indian labor could be absorbed and Arabs/Persians were flush with Petro dollars.
By Indifferent what I meant was that they were never trying to get India in their camp and it was mostly Paki lens by which India was being Judged.

To be Honest, other than local Islamists, most of us Indians too don't hold Arabs/Iranians/Turks in high esteem.
With Indian economic and Military might becoming too large for SAARC region, countries will take positions as per new realities. A poor cousin never carries any respect is an old adage.
As Rony Ji mentioned, raising few local Kurd scholars and organizing 'Free Kurdistan' festival in JNU could be a good start. Nest stop could be 'Gülen's School festival' and some award to "Sufi Saint" Fethullah Gulen by the clowns in Ajmer.
After all two can play a game.

As much as it is considered Chanikian by some, Neutral positions don't always help and sometimes one needs to stand in a definite camp.


Vikas Ji.

your usage of the word indifferent is understood and also relevant.

Seeing the way in which these guys moved into India, maybe, it was a case of familiarity breeds contempt and then conquest was but a short step away.

Different guys coming to trade must have made a lot of these muslim guys compare notes, discover the enormity of the wealth and the peaceful nature of the natives.

Now there is a cognitive dissonance arising from the generations of conquest and also the confusion as well as the bitter realization that they are not as good as they think they are.

Indic expeditionary troops, since the british days, have whipped their arab asses for quite a few centuries.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 25 Nov 2019 18:09

chetak wrote:Indic expeditionary troops, since the british days, have whipped their arab asses for quite a few centuries.


And Turkish and Iranian asses too. But they take comfort from the fact that Indians were then doing the bidding of the Brits.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vishvak » 25 Nov 2019 19:33

Neutral positions don't always help and sometimes one needs to stand in a definite camp.

That could result in max Muller type situation where English later conspired to rule and sold ideas that we still suffer. The cunning shyts are good with justifying anything, like Chinese do and we still are not good at it ie defending against Chinese only; but not after generalizing to find problems and clearing them out.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 26 Nov 2019 01:24

Turkey tests S-400 Russian missile system with US F-16, in defiance of Washington

Privately, Trump administration officials were hoping that Turkey would keep the S-400 system boxed and deactivated to avoid further escalation. But with Monday’s military exercise, experts agree that Turkey is one step closer to activating the system and is risking more US sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

“Turkey’s solution to this crisis has always been ‘we activate the S-400s and Washington does nothing’”, Mr Danforth told The National. The calculus now, is Ankara “interpreting Washington’s refusal to follow through on sanctions as an endorsement of this plan,” he added but “what happens when Turkey finally burns through Washington’s remarkable reserves of optimism?”.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Prem » 26 Nov 2019 04:20

https://www.memri.org/reports/editor-tu ... di-crown-0
Turkey Gone Full Paki.

Muhammad Dahlan "Has Been Carrying Out UAE Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Zayed And Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman's Dirty Work, And Who Sent Assassins, Murderers To Turkey""Turkey is going to release a 'red notice' search warrant regarding Muhammed Dahlan, the 'Middle East's hired gun."Being a key name in terms of working together with anti-Turkey organizations in the 'terror corridor' and proving them finances and weapons, Dahlan works directly with the terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) and Daesh."He is a figure that clearly and openly manages and helps terrorist organizations, joins and controls murders and covert attacks."He is a man who has been tasked by every country and power that carried out cyber intelligence networks, cyber terror organizations, social media networks in Jordan, Egypt, Greek Cyprus and the United Arab Emirates (UAE), and attacked Turkey through them, which have a reckoning with our country, who has been carrying out UAE Crown Prince Mohammad bin Zayed and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman's dirty work, and who sent assassins, murderers to Turkey."
"They are trying to exact revenge for the Seljuks, the Ottomans. They are trying to avenge the Crusades' for the Seljuks. They are trying to avenge Vienna (continental Europe) and India (the U.K.).""They call them 'Kingdoms of Fire'. Then let's go back to 1517 if we must."They are using anti-Turkey sentiment to impress the U.S., the U.K., France and Israel. Enmity against Turkey is not enough, so they also place all that is sacred, religion, sect, Quran, Jerusalem, Mecca and Medina on the negotiation table."They are updating the revenge for the Ottomans, Sultan Selim the Grim's defeat against the Mamluks (who were not even Arab) and bringing the caliphate to Istanbul, and to achieve this, they are having television series produced with names such as, 'Kingdoms of Fire,' banning Turkish series, and waging a war in the cultural and economic spheres as they have been doing do through terror.[b]"Two US-Israel 'Gurkhas': It will backfire to burn Saudi Arabia in a few years

"Multi-directional attacks that are entirely targeting Turkey have been started through Saudi Crown Prince Salman and the UAE's Zayed.
"This is not the battle of Arabs. This battle is the U.S. intelligence, the British and Israelis' showdown with Turkey. These two crown princes, these two Israel and U.S. 'Gurkhas' are the leading names of a major scenario that is going to destroy the Arab world."Unless this scenario is stopped, in the very near future, perhaps in a couple of years, perhaps as soon as the Syrian war ends, very great tribulations are going to befall Saudi Arabia and Gulf countries. The trap was set against Saudi Arabia; they are unable to even comprehend this."These countries were ruined because of you. Have you now been ordered to fight Turkey?"It is because of their lack of foresight, their mindlessness that there is destruction across Arab lands since 1991. Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Libya, whichever country comes to your mind, whether it be through war, invasion, civil war, coup or the division of countries, they have all been shaped upon Arab regimes' political blindness. Everything they regard as threat is a threat for their bosses. That is how they were taught and positioned."Now, they have been ordered to fight against Turkey. They have been ordered to attack Turkey politically, militarily, through terrorism, and economically and culturally."This nation has been fighting your bosses for centuries, who do you think you are!"We are calling out to Mohammad bin Salman and Mohammad bin Zayed one more time:"You cannot harm this country through TV series, by banning Turkish series, by feeding terrorist organizations or by sponsoring the opposition within. The British front you were in during World War 1, the U.S./Israel front, which you are on today, are not enough to keep you on your feet.""We are fighting your bosses. We are repeating the same fight for centuries. We are going to expose all your sins. We are going to expose all your dirty and bloody work. You have each turned into a hitman. You have become those countries', your bosses' armed forces. You have presented your honor, pride, religion, faith, country and nation to the order of the U.S. and Israel."If you continue with these attacks, this enmity, another Sultan Selim the Grim may just emerge

chetak
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 26 Nov 2019 04:29

Recep Tayyip Erdogan's recent activism on Kashmir is motivated by Turkey president's Caliphate dreams


Erdogan, it appears, wants to revive the Ottoman Caliphate by 2023 when Turkey celebrates 100 years of becoming a republic

By reviving the institution of the Caliphate, Erdogan wants to claim the moral, political, spiritual, and religious leadersip of the world

A revived Caliphate as an institution is most likely to be symbolic, but it will give Erdogan immense control over Muslims around the globe

g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 27 Nov 2019 16:41

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/n ... rone-power
Revealed: how UK technology fuelled Turkey's rise to global drone power
UK-based manufacturer supplied crucial missile component to Turkish drone-maker during development stage
by Dan Sabbagh and Bethan McKernan, Wed 27 Nov 2019

Turkey was able to circumvent a US export ban on killer drones with the help of a missile component first developed in the UK, allowing Ankara to become an emerging power in the lethal technology, which experts warn is dangerously proliferating.
The vital assistance from a factory in Brighton has helped Turkey on its way to become the second biggest user of armed drones in the world – one of a number of countries emulating methods first used by the US in its “war on terror”.
Turkish Bayraktar TB2 drones were heavily used in Ankara’s three operations to date against Kurdish-led forces in Syria, responsible for the killing of 449 individuals in one of them, amounting to a fifth of the officially declared fatalities.
They have also been used to kill what Turkey’s defence ministry said were “five PKK terrorists” across the border in Iraq this month, imitating the extraterritorial strikes pioneered by the US in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.
But while the armed Bayraktar TB2 drones are manufactured by a Turkish company, they could not have been developed without the Hornet missile rack, which was devised and supplied by EDO MBM Technology, located on the outskirts of Brighton, somewhere around 2015.
An article in Jane’s Defence Review from May 2016 shows the Hornet was supplied to the Bayraktar TB2’s manufacturer Baykar at the crucial initial development stage. The Turkish company went on to develop its own missile racks.
Four years on, Turkey’s security forces run a fleet of 86 armed TB2s and the country is a fast emerging player in drone usage worldwide, a field that was dominated by the US and, to a lesser extent, the UK and Israel until three or four four years ago.
Chris Cole, the director of Drone Wars UK, said: “What we are seeing is countries like Turkey becoming a major player in drone usage, which is, like the US, prepared to engage in targeted killing outside its own borders.”
Today the field is awash with new manufacturers, including China as well as Turkey, and new buyers, including the United Arab Emirates, which has been behind their deployment in the ongoing Libyan civil war, supporting rebels led by Gen Khalifa Haftar.
Turkish TB2 drones, meanwhile, have been used in response by their opponents, the internationally recognised government based in Tripoli – in a conflict in which dozens of people have been killed by drone strikes.
The Turkish government’s goal had long been to deploy drones against the Kurdish PKK separatists who have been engaged in a long-running violent insurgency in the south-east of the country, near its borders with Syria and Iraq.
......
Gautam

NRao
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby NRao » 28 Nov 2019 23:02


Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 29 Nov 2019 02:05

On Turkish internal politics and how Erdogan and his AKP party loots the treasury.

Erdoğan’s Istanbul dream may be dying

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has long viewed Istanbul as the crowning achievement of Turkey, a place to be gloriously built up in order to remind Turks, and Muslims everywhere, of their capacity for greatness.

As he sought to position Turkey as the leader of the Muslim world, Erdoğan approved $100 billion worth of megaprojects to make his lighthouse shine bright. These included the world’s largest airport, Turkey’s largest mosque, a multi-billion-dollar financial center, a third bridge over the Bosphorus, as well as railway and road tunnels underneath it, and a 30-mile shipping canal linking the Black and Marmara seas that Erdoğan himself described as crazy.

Fast forward six years, and the president’s mission seems to be teetering. The surest sign of this was his party’s loss of the Istanbul municipality to the main opposition candidate in local elections this year.

Not only has Erdoğan lost control of the municipality that his ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) and its predecessors had run since he became mayor 25 years ago, but they have also left the city $5 billion in debt.

Turkey’s cultural and financial centre is home to 16 million people and contributes more than 30 percent of the country’s GDP. It had long served as a key patronage network and economic lifeline for the AKP. But main opposition Republican People’s Party mayor Ekrem İmamoğlu’s victory this year has deprived the ruling party of these vital resources.

The new mayor has since exposed mismanagement and corruption under the previous AKP municipality, such as the millions wasted on more than 1,200 unnecessary city vehicles which had been rented from a firm owned by a relative of Treasury and Finance Minister Berat Albayrak. İmamoğlu also showed how the AKP-run municipality had funneled millions to charities linked to the president.


An economic downturn exacerbated by a currency crisis in 2018 has devastated the construction industry, which had long been fuelled by Istanbul growth. The sector contracted nearly 13 percent in the second quarter of 2019, as construction spending dropped by a third and new building permits fell by 60 percent. Scores have firms have closed down, while some have applied for legal protection from creditors or sought to restructure debt as major projects are cancelled or suspended each year.

An article in British newspaper The Times said on Monday predicted that the massive projects that have become a trademark of Erdoğan’s rule could soon grind to a halt.

The article pointed to the government’s decision this month to publicly finance the construction of 10 new Istanbul hospitals, rather than use a public-private partnership. The move came after a main opposition parliamentarian described the previous plan under the public-private partnership model as “the biggest black hole” in the history of Turkish government budgeting, pointing out that the state would be required to pay contractors an annual $5.5 billion for 25 years.

These and similar models which have been used by the AKP in a long series of other public projects, grant contractors the licence to operate the infrastructure they build for a set number of years, during which the treasury guarantees them a minimum level of income. This is often set in foreign currencies and at unrealistically high levels.

The Times said the model had enriched Erdoğan’s allies while also allowing the president to show voters completed projects that are presented as marks of his party’s success.


However, many of Erdoğan’s megaprojects have faced considerable headwinds, including those that have reached completion. In 2017, its first full year of operation, the third Bosphorus bridge took in $135 million in revenue from tolls, less than a third of the $464 million the government promised to pay back to contractors every year.

Istanbul’s new airport, which opened in April at a cost of $12 billion, faced immediate criticism after it was forced to cancel dozens of flights due to clouds and fog. The airport is now dealing with financial difficulties, as passenger numbers are down from last year and the consortium that runs the airport is restructuring its debts. On Tuesday, private Turkish airline AtlasGlobal said it was suspending operations due to financial difficulties related to the new airport.

The $30 billion canal project was greenlit by Turkey’s planning committee more than six-and-a-half years ago, yet it remains in the planning stages, though Erdogan and other officials repeatedly vowed that project tenders would be offered in 2019. This now seems unlikely, though the Environmental Impact Assessment report is expected to be presented on Nov. 28.

The $2.6 billion Istanbul Financial Center project, which was approved in 2009 to be built on 2 million square metres of land on the city’s Asian side, is meant to be Istanbul’s challenge to regional financial powerhouses like Dubai.

But the project has seen several delays. In May, Presidency Finance Office Head Göksel Aşan vowed that it would be completed by its current 2023 deadline. He also said there had been serious investment interest from the Middle East.

This last point underscores a key difference between the secular-minded İmamoğlu and the Islamist Erdogan, with the former often turned toward the West and the latter still looking to the Muslim world. İmamoğlu said Turkey’s state banks had stopped lending to his municipality for Istanbul projects, which has prodded the mayor to ask Europe for assistance.

“I have no doubt that we will find funding from the European Union,” said the mayor, who visited the British capital earlier this month and was interviewed by London-based international affairs magazine Monocle in its latest issue. On Sunday, Istanbul secured $121 million in financing from Deutsche Bank for a metro expansion project.

Aydın Selcen, a former Turkish diplomat under the AKP, noted the contrast as Turkey’s president boarded a flight to Doha on Monday. “While Istanbul Mayor İmamoğlu tours Berlin, Paris & London to sell eurobonds to finance projects, President Erdoğan is on his way to Qatar,” Selcen tweeted. “That's what friends are for.”

This ideological divide connects to the most powerful protest movement Turkey has ever seen, which emerged in response to Erdogan’s vision for Istanbul. When in May 2013 authorities sought to replace Istanbul’s Gezi Park with an Ottoman-style barracks, a few dozen protesters gathered to halt the project.

Word of the government’s harsh crackdown soon spread and within days, millions of people across Turkey had taken to the streets. The protest movement was eventually put down by heavy police interventions, and Turkish citizens have been largely barred from protesting since, suggesting that Erdoğan’s vision for Istanbul won out.


The past year has begun to change the narrative, though Tezcan Gümüş, analyst of Turkish politics at the University of Melbourne, warned supporters of the Gezi protests not to get too excited.

A draft law prepared by the government last month would hand authority over development near the Bosporus to a new national body under the president, taking it away from the municipality.

İmamoğlu protested that control of the Bosphorus and surrounding areas belonged only to Istanbul, but Gümüş said in a recent Ahval podcast that he expected the president to make moves to whittle away the power of opposition mayors, particularly in Istanbul, in the months ahead.


“I can definitely see (Erdogan) continuing to erode the power of someone like İmamoğlu,” he said.

Earlier this week, the CHP issued a report accusing the government of blocking state funds to CHP-run municipalities and aiming to curb the independence of the elected mayors.

On Tuesday, Erdoğan accused İmamoğlu of mismanaging the resources of Turkey’s most important city. “If the weather conditions do not change, Istanbul will suffer from water shortages in three months,” he told AKP parliamentarians.


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