Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

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Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 16 Feb 2020 20:19

Correct me if I am wrong but i believe India have not recognized Armenian genocide yet ? Its time we do. Also that shitty turkish airlines needs to be banned from Indian routes and making money out of Indians. Indian govt should comment on human rights violations on Kurds, Alevi's, Arabs and Romani's in Turkey. Unlike in India, linguistic minorities in Turkey dont even have rights to have their own schools or use their own languages while non-muslim minorities live as dhimmis.

Its ironic that while Bin Salman is trying to take Saudi's away from supporting extremism abroad, Erdogan took Turkey away from kemalism towards Pan-islamism.

Turkey geo-politically is in bad situation in their region. Except far way Pakistan, Qatar, Malaysia or failed states/govts like Libya or Somalia they simply dont have any allies left. They picked fights with everyone in eastern mediterranean and MENA - Greece, Cyprus, Syria, Armenia, Israel, Egypt, Morocco, Saudis, UAE. Their current 'riding two horses at once' approach with US and Russia is not sustainable in the long term. Erdogan's brinkmanship is so bankrupted that if he yields to Americans, he will be finished by the Russians, and if he yields to Russia, he will be finished by the Americans. Already Turkey-Russia spat has began over Idlib.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Feb 2020 18:21

schinnas wrote:What stops India from publicly calling out Turkey as supporter of radicalism and not allowing emigration of Indian students to study there. Also we need to downgrade diplomatic relations and force them to reduce their consular staff and reduce their capability to give tourist visas. Should also cancel direct flights to Ankara.

knee jerk reaction...turkey still holds some sway in islamic circles....overall picture...i think india can absorb this $hit...we cant be triggered take on everyone at the same time..and basically what for.. I see two objectives
1. Elimination of pakistan state, assimilation for complete undivided J&K
2. Eliminate the inherent desires to do ghazwa e hind

while both are being worked on parallel tracks, as they should be, we cant open fire too early ....IIRC turkey was thrown out from the competition of IN frigages/ships....if they dont amend their ways...their no. will come too....

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vikas » 18 Feb 2020 16:48

What leverage India has on Turkey to make them change their idiotic behavior ?

Meanwhile a private member sponsored discussion in LS about Armenian genocide or landgrab in Syria will send a strong message to Al-Khalipha.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nam » 18 Feb 2020 17:48

Why do we want to change their behavior? It is our national stupidity to assume, everyone is our friend.

I want turkey to go all mental. In return we will show some b*** and sell kit to Armenians and provide covert support to kurds and syrian hammering the turkish units.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vikas » 18 Feb 2020 22:39

^ Why let anti-India narrative go unchallenged. That Turkey is slowly slipping into Riasat-e-Madina is clear as a day.
BTW India has never sold any kit to anyone who is a enemy of the enemy. But a Jingo can dream.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 18 Feb 2020 22:53

For starters, we can start with these steps

Correct me if I am wrong but i believe India have not recognized Armenian genocide yet ? Its time we do. Also that shitty turkish airlines needs to be banned from Indian routes and making money out of Indians. Indian govt should comment on human rights violations on Kurds, Alevi's, Arabs and Romani's in Turkey. Unlike in India, linguistic minorities in Turkey dont even have rights to have their own schools or use their own languages while non-muslim minorities live as dhimmis.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Cain Marko » 18 Feb 2020 23:37

ArjunPandit wrote:[
knee jerk reaction...turkey still holds some sway in islamic circles....overall picture...i think india can absorb this $hit...we cant be triggered take on everyone at the same time..

What sway? The Saudis are not happy with them, nor the Euros, nor the Americans. The latter just passed a bill recognizing Armenian genocide in the house. Time for India to do the same. I think the turks felt it when India didn't give them the ship building contract. So have replied in this rather toothless way.

I'm betting the MEA is prepping some other painful package. Such shenanigans won't go unnoticed by GOI. But Armenian genocide thing, that was truly nasty. shouldn't be simply ignored even if it's a century later. In fact parallels should be drawn between that episode and Turkish persecution of minorities today. India should pass a bill and urge other nations to do the same. Esp. Some Islamic ones. Uae and Indonesia perhaps.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Cain Marko » 18 Feb 2020 23:42

It seems things are catching pace:

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India summoned the Turkish ambassador on Monday to lodge a diplomatic protest over President Tayyip Erdogan's remarks on the disputed region of Kashmir and warned it would have a bearing on bilateral ties.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/india-summons-turkish-envoy-over-102754297.html
As suspected Modi won't let such things pass.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2020 00:13

marko ji i am not saying we should sit idle and let it pass but at the same time getting triggered on two bit nations like turkey will entail giving them importance than they deserve...perhaps a statement like MMS second grade power would slash the ego of erdogan a lot more than a MEA statement

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Feb 2020 00:35

Vikas wrote:What leverage India has on Turkey to make them change their idiotic behavior ?

Meanwhile a private member sponsored discussion in LS about Armenian genocide or landgrab in Syria will send a strong message to Al-Khalipha.


Generally, leverage won't come to us and say, here I am, use me.

If the decision is made to go after Turkey, leverage can be created.

Sign a military co-operation agreement with Armenia, encourage a private entity to form a joint Historic Genocide Invesigation task force. Just to watch Turkey jump up and down in rage would be worth it.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Feb 2020 00:36

Rony wrote:For starters, we can start with these steps

Correct me if I am wrong but i believe India have not recognized Armenian genocide yet ? Its time we do. Also that shitty turkish airlines needs to be banned from Indian routes and making money out of Indians. Indian govt should comment on human rights violations on Kurds, Alevi's, Arabs and Romani's in Turkey. Unlike in India, linguistic minorities in Turkey dont even have rights to have their own schools or use their own languages while non-muslim minorities live as dhimmis.


Open a Kurdish Studies Department in JNU

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby VKumar » 19 Feb 2020 00:37

Ban imports or increase duty sharply.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby KLNMurthy » 19 Feb 2020 00:39

ArjunPandit wrote:marko ji i am not saying we should sit idle and let it pass but at the same time getting triggered on two bit nations like turkey will entail giving them importance than they deserve...perhaps a statement like MMS second grade power would slash the ego of erdogan a lot more than a MEA statement

Think of it as practice for the real enemy which is China. Harass Turkey in different low-cost ways, and study the effect, to get better at fighting this kind of war.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rsatchi » 19 Feb 2020 00:39

ArjunPandit wrote:
schinnas wrote:What stops India from publicly calling out Turkey as supporter of radicalism and not allowing emigration of Indian students to study there. Also we need to downgrade diplomatic relations and force them to reduce their consular staff and reduce their capability to give tourist visas. Should also cancel direct flights to Ankara.

knee jerk reaction...turkey still holds some sway in islamic circles....overall picture...i think india can absorb this $hit...we cant be triggered take on everyone at the same time..and basically what for.. I see two objectives
1. Elimination of pakistan state, assimilation for complete undivided J&K
2. Eliminate the inherent desires to do ghazwa e hind

while both are being worked on parallel tracks, as they should be, we cant open fire too early ....IIRC turkey was thrown out from the competition of IN frigages/ships....if they dont amend their ways...their no. will come too....


Rsatchi wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:
In the meanwhile Erdogan bubba continues to make anti Kashmir noises in bonhomie with TSP :roll: Rich coming from genocidal turks - from Armenians to Kurds. Imran and Erdo are peas in a pod. A rather rotten, festering one at that.

Cross Posting from Turkish thread:
1.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... de.svg.png
Sir we don't even recognise that event as an genocide!!! :roll: This needs to be done at the official level i.e, GOI
The we could issue Demarche to the Ambassador for interfering in internal matter
The we could have trade embargo or restrictions etc
We should start with the basics of recognizing the Armenian Genocide first!!
Please correct me if I am wrong in my assumption that we yet to recognise that event! :eek:
There we were in Pre-Independence given full support for the 'Khilafat Movement' :eek:

Too true Saar. Dhimmitude continues but I believe this is a low hanging fruit and under modi, India will soon pluck it. In the meanwhile we piss them off by allowing Gulen followers in India iirc.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2020 00:43

Ok if we are getting naughty, we must remind them it was Indian soldiers, although under british that led to the end of of their 'glorious' caliphate ..not the best of things..but i think it still hurts their psyche...

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ArjunPandit » 19 Feb 2020 00:44

KLNMurthy wrote:Open a Kurdish Studies Department in JNU
this is the most creative one..

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Y. Kanan » 19 Feb 2020 06:46

UlanBatori wrote:India should ally with Roos on Syria-Libya-Iraq-Iran.


If the prevailing sentiment here is indicative of where GoI is thinking, then we're poised to dump Roos and get in bed with Uncle more than we are now. We must do our best to please Uncle by avoiding that Iranian oil. The damage to our economy in the form of higher oil prices is unfortunate, but it's more important to keep America happy than Russia, Iran or any of our allies. The endgame is maybe US will approve of our groveling, and throw us some scraps diplomatically or something.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 19 Feb 2020 07:55

Present indications are that Erdogan-Putin Panchsheel only goes as far as turk stream pipeline and S400 payments. Russian Amby getting death threats etc, and the battle for Idlib hasn't even begun. I think once that is finished the Putin way, there will be intense hate-fest - ending with end of Erdogan and rise of the opposition. Also, I think Turkish adventure in Libya will end badly.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rishi_Tri » 19 Feb 2020 09:10

Diplomatic offensive is already on. President Kovind visited Cyprus in Sep 2018.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 657699.cms

Now, it needs to be economic on lines of rapping Malaysia. The Malaysia nonagenarian has stopped barking since palm oil stopped getting shipped to India.

Start with stopping imports of Turkish manufactured items - garments should be first on list! It shall hit them hard. Then move to agri products. Then reduce the number of flights of the Thurky Airlines! The barking will stop.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Prithwiraj » 19 Feb 2020 09:17

Every small measures matters and sends a message. Ban bollywood film shooting in Turkey

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby yensoy » 19 Feb 2020 09:36

We have a positive trade balance with Turkey. It's hard to bargain when you are already ahead. But yes we can put an end to additional Turkish flights into India.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Vikas » 19 Feb 2020 10:58

I think certain messages have to be subtle and not big ticket items like flight ban or trade ban which are for bigger conflicts. I believe that We don't want to end up with Turkey as sworn enemy but only to show them there place and that two can play this tango on interference.

As KLNMurthy ji suggested, a Kurdish study center would be fine and so would be a casual comment by senior govt luminary on Armenian genocide.

If you really want rocket up Khaliphas ass, invite Muhammed Fethullah Gülen and bestow one of many awards that GOI keeps giving to foreigners.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby g.sarkar » 19 Feb 2020 12:20

Vikas wrote:I think certain messages have to be subtle and not big ticket items like flight ban or trade ban which are for bigger conflicts. I believe that We don't want to end up with Turkey as sworn enemy but only to show them there place and that two can play this tango on interference.
As KLNMurthy ji suggested, a Kurdish study center would be fine and so would be a casual comment by senior govt luminary on Armenian genocide.
If you really want rocket up Khaliphas ass, invite Muhammed Fethullah Gülen and bestow one of many awards that GOI keeps giving to foreigners.

I have never met a Greek who does not hate Turkey. Modiji may try to bear hug a Greek pm or president on Jan 26th. He may then make some noise regarding Cyprus.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby chetak » 19 Feb 2020 17:12

Vikas wrote:I think certain messages have to be subtle and not big ticket items like flight ban or trade ban which are for bigger conflicts. I believe that We don't want to end up with Turkey as sworn enemy but only to show them there place and that two can play this tango on interference.

As KLNMurthy ji suggested, a Kurdish study center would be fine and so would be a casual comment by senior govt luminary on Armenian genocide.

If you really want rocket up Khaliphas ass, invite Muhammed Fethullah Gülen and bestow one of many awards that GOI keeps giving to foreigners.



give him a PhD like the one that was given to that ass erdogan.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 20 Feb 2020 07:10

**ANNOUNCE** port fajilities for Bear ships heading to patrol east side of Suez... and stopover/refueling/maintenance access for long-range bombers, cargo flights and escorts. Planes flying over Eyeran and Eyeraq can stand off and hit eastern Turkey and Syria.
Right now we may be 2 hours from all-out war with Russians counter-attacking/pre-emptively taking out Turkish airbases and armored column staging areas. 2 days of Gens. Vodkov-Smirnoff style pin-point carnage and it's all over. A couple of Backfire squadrons delivering ALCMs for the bigger fireworks.

Plus.. things are RAPIDLY going under for Erdogan's Libyan adventure. Propped-up "regime" may be days from Niazi-style triumph.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby vimal » 20 Feb 2020 07:22

Make love not war!
Image

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby ldev » 20 Feb 2020 23:04

Turkey Asks U.S. for Patriot Missiles to Deter Russia in Syria
:lol: Whats the problem? Can't Turkey use it's newly acquired S400 systems to shoot down the Russian aircraft supporting the Syrian Army......

By Selcan Hacaoglu
February 20, 2020, 9:31 AM EST Updated on February 20, 2020, 10:59 AM EST

Turkey has asked the U.S. to deploy two Patriot missile-defense batteries on its southern border to free it to punish any future attacks by Russian-backed Syrian troops, according to a senior Turkish official in Ankara.

The disclosure was almost immediately followed on Thursday by a spasm of violence that left two Turkish troops dead and five wounded, and underscored the risks as two regional powerbrokers assert their influence in northwestern Syria.


The official, who’s familiar with Turkey’s policy in Syria, said Ankara could use F-16 warplanes to strike units loyal to Assad in Idlib if the Patriots were deployed in Hatay on Turkey’s border to provide protection.


By lending air support to the Syrian army “Russia has demonstrated it’s ready to respond harshly,” Suponina said by phone. “This signal should be understood correctly by Turkey. It would be good if it pushed the sides toward a compromise.”

Ankara, on the other hand, is also preparing for a possible showdown with Russia.

“Turkey can shut down the straits and its air space to Russia to block military shipments to the regime forces,” said Mesut Hakki Casin, a professor at Istanbul’s Yeditepe University and a member of the foreign affairs board that advises President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in an interview with TRT television.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Feb 2020 03:32

The old story of "U don't have to be a Brain to be The Boss. U just have to be an Oiseule!"
“Turkey can shut down the straits and its air space to Russia to block military shipments to the regime forces,” said Mesut Hakki Casin, a professor at Istanbul’s Yeditepe University and a member of the foreign affairs board that advises President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, in an interview with TRT television.


This is why I say that an **ANNOUNCEMENT** that India will help Russia resupply Syria AND conduct "delivery" flights over Turkey, would be a good message. I think "Regime Change" is imminent. In Ankara.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 21 Feb 2020 15:14

Article is behind paywall but this is the gist

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/turkeys-economic-weakness-fuels-slow-burning-political-crisis-akp-erdogan

the sick man is really sick and a heady dose of religious steroids is being given by Erdogan to shore up whatever support he can get

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby kit » 21 Feb 2020 15:18

Rishi_Tri wrote:Diplomatic offensive is already on. President Kovind visited Cyprus in Sep 2018.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 657699.cms

Now, it needs to be economic on lines of rapping Malaysia. The Malaysia nonagenarian has stopped barking since palm oil stopped getting shipped to India.

Start with stopping imports of Turkish manufactured items - garments should be first on list! It shall hit them hard. Then move to agri products. Then reduce the number of flights of the Thurky Airlines! The barking will stop.


he is already complained that india is too big to take on in a direct economic slanging match , btw he is on his way out this year

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby RKumar » 21 Feb 2020 17:41

ldev wrote:Turkey Asks U.S. for Patriot Missiles to Deter Russia in Syria


By Selcan Hacaoglu
February 20, 2020, 9:31 AM EST Updated on February 20, 2020, 10:59 AM EST

Turkey has asked the U.S. to deploy two Patriot missile-defense batteries on its southern border to free it to punish any future attacks by Russian-backed Syrian troops, according to a senior Turkish official in Ankara.


Turkey is not requesting but demanding, I hope US will show them their place and let them suffer.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby nam » 22 Feb 2020 01:55

This whole adventure in Syria and libya by the Turks must be costing a lot.

Along with panga with Russia, the Egyptians have mobilised as well to counter Turkish adventure in Libya!

I wonder who is paying for all these. Is there a NATO CSF for Nato members, like how Paks used to get?

Painful to see as I have been hoping my favourite Turkish actress comes to bollywood :((

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 22 Feb 2020 11:55

Shameless Turks. Just like Pakis

Turkey requests US conduct aerial patrols near Idlib as Assad's forces close in

Turkey has asked the US to conduct aerial patrols in its airspace bordering the Syrian province of Idlib to show support for Ankara's ongoing military operations against forces loyal to Damascus, a Turkish official told Middle East Eye.

The latest request came earlier this month in meetings with US Special Envoy James Jeffrey in Ankara, where Turkish officials also asked Washington for two batteries of Patriot missile systems to shield the border area from possible air attacks, the official told MEE on condition of anonymity.

Since then, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan held a phone call with US President Donald Trump, but the White House has not given any indications that it would provide tangible support for Turkey's operations along its southern border.

"He [Trump] promised that he would sanction the regime officials, or anyone involved in attacks against the civilians. And that he would issue strong-worded statements," the official said. "But he didn't commit himself to anything involving the military, yet."

Another Turkish official said that Ankara was also waiting for a response from Nato to provide more support for its air defence needs.

Turkey, a backer of Syria's moderate rebels, has been forced to intervene in Idlib, a northwestern province that has become the opposition's last redoubt.

About three million people live in the rebel-held territory, but a pro-government offensive has displaced 900,000 since December, pushing more refugees towards the Turkish border.

Officials in Ankara say the US is unlikely to provide the Patriots without conditions, considering Turkey's deployment of Russian-made S-400s in its territory, which is sanctionable under US law.

Turkish Defence Minister Hulusi Akar said late on Wednesday that Turkey would appreciate US support, which could include the deployment of Patriots. Still, he added that Ankara would activate the S-400s.

"We will get them operational in the spring. No doubt about this," he said during an interview with CNNTurk.

Fractured ties?

Several sources based in Washington told MEE that the Pentagon was wary of backing Turkey in Idlib after past frictions such as Operation Peace Spring last year, which targeted the US's ally in Syria, the SDF.

"Washington would need some inter-agency discussion to come up with some aid package to Turkey in this critical time," one of the sources said.

A separate Washington source said envoy Jeffrey's efforts to repair Turkish-American ties were seemingly sabotaged by Pentagon leaks, including a revelation by Reuters earlier this month that the US had stopped sharing reconnaissance intelligence with Turkey on PKK targets in Iraq after Ankara's incursion into Syria in October.

Erdogan has threatened a full-blown assault against advancing Syrian government forces in recent days, giving Damascus until the end of February to retreat.

Backed by Russian airpower, Assad's forces have captured more than 600 square km of rebel-held territory in Idlib and Aleppo provinces since December.

Anxious about the onslaught, which has killed more than 300 civilians, and a possible influx of refugees, Ankara has poured men, arms and vehicles into northwestern Syria in an attempt to stem the tide.

Still, despite several threats of an "imminent" counteroffensive, and Syrian government fire this month that killed 15 Turkish soldiers, no large-scale operation has materialised.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby mody » 22 Feb 2020 15:29

The main problem is the wannabe Kemal-pasha Erdogan! We have to undermine him. Supplying arms to Armenia is out of the question. Armenia is firmly in roosi circle of sphere and the bear maintain a large military presence in Armenia. It also stands guarantee of Armenian state integrity. This is required by Armenia in the face of the threats from Turkey and Azerbaijan. The azeri's have petro dollars and Turkey for support.
Also, directly supporting the Kurds will ruffle many feathers from Iran to Iraq, to Syria, Russia and even Armenia. All these countries have Kurdish population (except Russia) and none of them want the Kurds to have their own land.
Instead supplying arms to the Iraqi government like ATGMS etc. would a good bet. Supply arms and encourage them to defend Iraqi sovereignty, next time Turkey decides to take some punitive action against the Kurds in northern Iraq.

It would be better to undermine Erdogan politically in Turkey itself. The ruling party lost the municipal elections in Istanbul, twice. Erdogan cast doubts on the first election and nullified the results and ordered re-election after a few months. The ruling party lost that soundly as well. Erdogan had famously once said that The one who controls Istanbul, controls Turkey.
Turkeys internal fault-lines should be exploited. Rake up the past to show that a majority of the turks today, are actually of mix race. Most of the turks with Armenian, Greek, Assyrian etc heritage are ones who's forefathers were forcibly converted to Islam, after subjecting the people at the time to torture, rape and economic hardship. DNA testing kits in Turkey are banned due to these reasons.
Work with the Saudi's and UAE on TV series that shows these kinds of uncomfortable truths of the Ottoman past and highlight how the current policies of Erdogan are taking the country away from the secular and progressive trajectory to the radical Islamic one. Mustafa Kemal had fought to have the Khalif removed and ended the Caliphate. Erdogan is going in reverse and trying to create a new one.
With the Turkish economy in doldrums, the people will channel their frustrations through the ballet, against the ruling party.

Also, discourage Indian tourists from visiting Turkey. Work with Indian travel agent companies to stop promoting tourism to Turkey and Malaysia, till these countries begin to fall in line.

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby mody » 22 Feb 2020 15:47

A direct confrontation between Turkish and Russian forces backing Syria would be great. I was almost certain that we would see at least 1 Turkish F16 being shot down, after Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24, in the early part of the Russian air campaign in Syria. However, Erdogan is shrewd and played his cards well. He has been playing both sides and has been keeping Putin happy.
However, now with the end game finally here and all Turkish backed militias facing imminent defeat, he might be forced to directly confront the Syrian government forces. In the process, I hope the turks end up directly firing at the Russians as well.
Would also love for Turkey to get further involved in Libya. Financially Qatar is supporting the turks and hence, financially they are not taking as big a hit. But further involvement in Libya, will see the Turks go against Egypt, UAE, Russia and France and it can mean, potentially big losses in men and materials for Turkey.

By the way, at the last UNGA meet, NaMo did have informal meetings with the leaders of Greece, Cyprus and Armenia, after the Erdogan vomit on Kashmir.
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/message-f ... on-kashmir

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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Rony » 22 Feb 2020 19:50

So Ehsanullah Ehsan was given refuge in Turkey. How long before Masood Azhar too shits to Turkey ?

Is There A Turkey-Pakistan Deal To Host Pakistani Jihadi Commanders In Turkey ?

Ehsanullah Ehsan had been in the custody, or safehaven, of Pakistani intelligence since 2017. In an audio message recorded after the escape, he noted: "Following an agreement dated February 5, 2017, I had given up myself before the secret [intelligence] agencies of Pakistan."[10]

Although Ehsanullah Ehsan has gone on to criticize Pakistani military and intelligence, there is a duality in Pakistan's behavior that permits terror groups to criticize their hosts. This duality is tactical and enables Pakistan to deny scrutiny of its support of jihadi terror commanders.

A question that arises is whether Ehsanullah Ehsan is part of a deal whereby Pakistani terrorists are moved to Turkey, enabling Pakistan to present a clean face before FATF in order to escape blacklisting? To prevent Pakistan from being put on FATF's blacklist, a court in Pakistan on February 12 sentenced Lashkar-e-Taiba founder Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, the mastermind of the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks, to prison for terror financing.[11] The timing is ominous.

According to another report, Pakistan told FATF that Masood Azhar and his family are "missing."[12] Masood Azhar, a leading Pakistani jihadi commander, was freed by India in 1999 in exchange for the passengers of an Indian plane hijacked to Kandahar.

At the FATF meeting, Turkey was the sole country to support Pakistan, though Malaysia praised Pakistan for its counter-terrorism efforts.[13] According to a media report, days before the FATF meet, Erdoğan "made it clear that Turkey would help Pakistan stay off the terrorism financing blacklist and counter the political pressure within FATF."

The vital question is: Without a Pakistani-Turkish collaboration, how could Ehsanullah Ehsan get a Pakistani passport and a Turkish visa for himself and family members to land in Turkey? He is a well-known jihadi commander whose face is easily recognizable.

The fact that there is some Pakistani-Turkish deal on this subject was underlined by Zahid Hussain, who is also author of a book on terrorism in Pakistan: "It is imperative that the public not only know how he escaped, but also the deal made with him."[18] This is something Turkey and Pakistan will need to explain before FATF and the world.

Philip
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Philip » 22 Feb 2020 20:40

The Paki- Ottoman relationship has blown hot and coldbover decades but has never been in trouble.Both nations are in need fo friends given their various sins,and like two drunks are supporting each other to stay upright. Turkey played the Russian hand over S-400s and it would be stupid of him to go against the Russian line on ending the Syrian conflict ,now in its last lap. The Rus could make his S-400s useless by witholding key components ,support and spares. In the long haul it would be better for Syria to return to peace with the war ended and the huge amount of Syrian refugees return to rebuild their country. Otherwise with the US in retreat everywhere,about to hand over Afg. to the Taliban and by default Pak, he would be on his own against the Syrian-Russo-Iranian combine with much to lose if clashes against the regime and its allies occur. None of his NATO allies will want to entangle themselves in such a messy affair, particularly that the conflict is not being fought on Turksh territory,but abroad thanks to Turkey's arrogant expansionism. " Erdo ecto sum", to paraphrase Decartes, but many a more powerful megalomaniac has tumbled into the
dust .Hubris stares Erdo in the face.

UlanBatori
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby UlanBatori » 23 Feb 2020 00:15

There is a CT that the recent H2S cloud at the Karachi waterfront was a warning to terroristan.

mody
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby mody » 29 Feb 2020 15:35

If Turkey were to come to Pakistan's aid in the event of a future Indo-pak conflict, what should be India's response and what are the options that India would have to inflict pain on the Turks?

Say in the event of an Indo-pak conflict, if Turkey were to send say a squadron of F16's with their pilots to take part in conflict, what options would India have, to punish Turkey?
These kind of things have happened in the past with arab countries, but the India of the 60s and 70s was different.
Also, we were totally dependent on the arab countries for oil at the time and did not have the reach to target the respective countries.

What is the possibility of India firing off 2-4 Agni-IV missiles on Turkish airbases in response to Turkish fighter planes and pilots attacking India.
The following questions would arise

1). Would India be able to mate a conventional 1 ton warhead with a Agni-IV missile in a short time (max 24 hours) and fire off the missiles?
2). Would India have accurate targeting information for Turkish airforce bases? The base would have to purely Turkish one, with no NATO presence like at Incirlik etc.
3). How accurate would the missile be, to target the airforce base? The accuracy required would be in lower double digit CEP to really cause damage to the base and minimise any collateral damage.
4). How would NATO respond? The charter says an "Attack on One is an Attack on All", however in this case the argument would be that it is Turkey which has foolishly entered into a conflict, it has not business to be part off and hence, any retribution on that count, is Turkey's fault only.
5). How would the US respond? Would the US warn Turkey? Given that there would be an Indo-pak conflict in progress, the US would be monitoring the situation closely. It would surely be able to detect any kind of ballistic missile launch, especially something as big as the Agni-IV. It would also quickly realize from the trajectory and the flight profile, that the missile is going to fly over the paki land mass and go further west. Given that it would be known to everyone by then, that Turkey has sent fighter aircrafts to aid Pakistan, target for ballistic missile further west of Pakistan would only mean Turkey. The flight time of the missile from India to Turkey would be approximately half an hour. Enough time for the US to pickup the hotline and warn Turkey that ballistic missile were on the way.

If the missiles do reach their intended targets and cause widespread damage, like say destroying 30-40 aircrafts on the ground, how would turkey respond? Especially if the Indo-pak conflict does not last very long and conflict ends in say within 1-3 days of Indian action against Turkey, how would Turkey respond. It would not be able to declare war on India and try to wage a war from its own shores.

Short of firing off Agni-IV missiles would India have any other military options to punish Turkey? Such an act against India, by any country should not be allowed to pass without retribution. A strong action against a small power like Turkey would send a strong message to countries like China etc., that any direct military meddling in Indo-pak conflicts or any kind of direct military action against India, would evoke a sharp response from India.

Lisa
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Postby Lisa » 29 Feb 2020 15:39

Modyji,

Please see link below to understand further possibilities and also why Russia is not interested in directly confronting Turkey but more than happy to kill in Syria.

NATO Article 5

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm


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