Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

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sumsumne
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by sumsumne »

Ilker Ayci declines Tata Group's offer to be CEO & MD of Air India


https://www.rediff.com/business/report/ ... 220301.htm

Nicer way of saying GOI did not clear the appointment?
Rudradev
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rudradev »

They must have told him, in marathi: Tuci Ayci G*nd.
Cyrano
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Cyrano »

Such an appointment is announced only after offer is accepted. Tatas made a mistake of announcing before MHA clearence; which did not come just like that. Ayci must have realised that if Indian govt and others outside it and media start digging into his life, it may hurt his future employability as well, so he snuck out.

Overall, good for India, Tatas and AI.
Cyrano
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Cyrano »

Rudradev wrote:They must have told him, in marathi: Tuci Ayci G*nd.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Rakesh
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rakesh »

Rudradev wrote:They must have told him, in marathi: Tuci Ayci G*nd.
:lol: :rotfl:

This is comedy gold. Thank you Rudradev-ji. I needed this right now.

:lol: :rotfl:
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Chinmay »

Rudradev wrote:They must have told him, in marathi: Tuci Ayci G*nd.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Manish_P
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Manish_P »

Rudradev wrote:They must have told him, in marathi: Tuci Ayci G*nd.
:rotfl:

A quote for the ages
g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/worl ... hard-place
Peacemaker Turkey, between a rock and a hard place
John Dobson, March 26, 2022

Of all the countries in the region, the war in Ukraine has put Turkey in the most difficult geopolitical position.
‘War is the realm of the unexpected”, said the noted British military theorist, Basel Liddell Hart, years ago. Russia’s war on Ukraine is certainly proving him right. Who would have thought only a few months or so ago that the US would be cosying up to Venezuela, a top Putin ally in Latin America? Or that UK’s Prime Minister Boris Johnson would be rehabilitating Mohammed bin Salman, previously accused of ordering the murder of the dissident Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, with his servile visit to Saudi Arabia? The reason in both cases, of course, is oil. After all, if you want to reduce your dependency on Russia, you need to get your oil from somewhere else. And for this to happen, you have to set aside little things like crimes against humanity. It’s called ‘realpolitik’.
But what do you do if two of your partner-countries go to war with each other? Which do you support? This is the problem currently occupying many minds in Ankara, Turkey’s capital. For a long time, Turkey has profited from strong ties with both Moscow and Kyiv. Although Turkish President Recep Erdogan and Russia’s President Putin often compete, they have also partnered in operations in Syria, Libya, and the Southern Caucuses. In 2019, Turkey procured the S-400 ground-to-air missile system from Russia, a decision that poisoned its relations with the US.
Turkey also trades heavily with Ukraine and before the current war had ambitious plans to foster defence-industrial cooperation between the two countries. It has not gone unnoticed that the Turkish-made drones have been used with a devastating effect by Ukraine against its Russian invaders. But there’s an even deeper relationship between Turkey and Ukraine. Not only has Ankara repeatedly and vehemently denounced Russia’s ‘illegal annexation of Crimea’, insisting that Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity should be respected, but Turkey has unique historical relations and ties with the Tartar people of Crimea. Ever since the 2014 annexation, Turkey has complained that the leaders of the Tatar community have not been allowed to enter their ‘historical homeland’, and that ‘unjustified legal procedures and illegal detentions targeting Tartars of Crimea are intensifying’.
Add to all this the fact that Turkey is a member of NATO and a regional heavyweight, Ankara is under great pressure to pick a side. But which?
Early signs indicated that Turkey was siding with Ukraine, when President Erdogan agreed to Ukraine’s President Zelenskiy’s request to close the Bosphorus and Dardanelles straits to naval shipping. This, however, was largely symbolic as, although it prevented Russia from sending extra ships to attack Ukraine, its Black Sea Fleet was already deployed.
But Turkey has not given up on Russia. Since it is not a member of the European Union, it’s not bound to observe the EU sanctions on Russia, arguing that it was essential to protect its own economy and it would also keep the door open to a dialogue with Russia. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia has become a major source of tourists to Turkey’s Mediterranean resorts as well as a lucrative market for exporters and construction companies. Turkey also turned to Russia for energy, not only getting the majority of its natural gas, but also signing a deal with Russia’s state-owned Rosatom to build Turkey’s first nuclear power plant at Akkuyu, due to come online next year.
....
Gautam
g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.gulf-times.com/story/718513 ... 1998-with-
Turkish inflation reaches fastest since 1998 with surge past 73% in May
Bloomberg / Istanbul, June 04 2022

Turkey’s inflation soared in May to the fastest since 1998 as it came under more pressure from the rising cost of food and energy while ultra-loose monetary policy contributed to currency weakness.
Consumer prices rose an annual 73.5%, up from 70% in April, according to data released by the state statistics agency on Friday. The median forecast in a Bloomberg survey of 20 economists was 74.7%.
Monthly inflation was almost 3%, compared with the median estimate of 4% in a separate survey. A core index that strips out the impact of volatile items such as food and energy reached 56%. Turkish inflation has been in double digits for much of the past half-decade as authorities prioritised economic growth and exports.
The biggest drivers of the latest surge in inflation were food and energy, exacerbated by the global rally in commodities and the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Turkey is a major importer of oil.
.....
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Slightly older, but still relevant:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/1 ... r-refugees
As Turkey’s economic crisis grows, politicians spar over refugees
As tensions rise over Turkey’s millions of refugees, politicians are seeking to capitalise on the resentment.
Paul Benjamin Osterlund, 14 May 2022

Istanbul, Turkey – Amid a deepening economic crisis in Turkey, anger is growing towards the millions of refugees living in the country, with tensions threatening to spill over in recent weeks.
Videos of large groups of foreign nationals hanging out in various places of Istanbul are being shared with rising frequency on Twitter, with thousands of people taking to social media to express alarm and calling for refugees to be sent back to their countries.
Some Turks also accuse Syrians of “stealing” their jobs and being responsible for rising rental prices, as inflation soars and the value of the lira slumps. Polls indicate that the vast majority of Turkish citizens now want refugees to be sent home.
Analysts say politicians are increasingly seizing on this resentment and using it for political gain ahead of Turkey’s parliamentary and presidential elections due to take place in June 2023.
....
Gautam
Manish_P
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Manish_P »

....

Consumer prices rose an annual 73.5%, up from 70% in April, according to data released by the state statistics agency on Friday. The median forecast in a Bloomberg survey of 20 economists was 74.7%.
Monthly inflation was almost 3%, compared with the median estimate of 4% in a separate survey....
Word on the streets, well Twitter and social media, is that the actual inflation rate is in the range of 200%. Turdogan is forcing the institutes to show a lower rate...
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by mody »

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/gr ... 5c37f8dc80

Turks playing dirty games to tarnish the image of Indian wheat and keep India out of the global wheat market. If the fleet tanker deal with the Turks is still ON, it needs to be canned at the earliest. Get the Italian govt to spill the beans on the VVIP chopper deal and reward Leonardo group with order for the design consultancy of the fleet tankers and the Black shark torpedoes.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Vips »

IIRC, there was a Spanish Shipyard which was also in the short list for collaboration of these FSV's.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by g.sarkar »

https://theprint.in/india/great-indian- ... ys/988626/
Great Indian wheat export mystery: Turkey didn’t reject for quality, Israel bought it, ITC says
A 55,000-tonne consignment of Indian wheat sold to a Dutch firm named ETG Commodities, which further approached a Turkish buyer, has become something of a mystery.
SAYANTAN BERA, 9 June, 2022

New Delhi: What really happened to a large wheat export consignment from India that business conglomerate ITC Ltd had shipped out mid-May?
Why did Turkey reject it? Did Egypt reject it too? How can wheat be contaminated by the rubella virus, which infects humans?
Is this ship loitering in international waters looking for a buyer? Or is this all just a grand global commodities trade conspiracy at a time the world is grappling with food inflation and grain shortages?
The answer to the last question may not be known for a while, if at all, but Rajnikant Rai, CEO of ITC’s agribusiness division, set the record straight on the rest, rubbishing claims that the shipment fell short of the contracted quality parameters.
The 55,000-tonne consignment was sold to a Dutch firm named ETG Commodities, which appointed a Swiss company, SGS, for quality tests, Rai told ThePrint in an exclusive interview.
“ITC delivered the contracted quality and the ship sailed mid-May. We later came to know that ETG sold it to a Turkish buyer. End May, we learnt, the shipment was rejected by Turkey,” Rai said. Both ITC and ETG have received payment for the deal, he added.
“But neither us nor ETG ever received any report on the reason for rejection. To say that the wheat was rejected due to the presence of rubella virus or it had lower than required protein content, and that after Turkey, Egypt, too, rejected it, are just rumors,” he said.
“The ship never sailed to Egypt and now it is berthing at a port in Israel waiting to be unloaded,” Rai added, indicating that a new buyer had been found for the consignment.
According to an official with an international commodity trading firm who wished to not be named, there could be “commercial or geopolitical reasons at play here”. “Raising quality concerns looks like an attempt to tarnish India’s reputation as a global grains supplier,” the official said.
A handful of traders from Europe dominate and control the wheat trade in the Middle East and African markets, said S. Chandrasekaran, a New Delhi-based trade analyst, adding that the Indian wheat consignment being infected by the Rubella virus is “a myth created by Turkey”.
......
Gautam
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by chetak »

we need to shut down wheat supply to the taliban too as a lot of it is being diverted to the pakis.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.firstpost.com/opinion/why-i ... 76231.html
Why it’s the right time for India to give Turkey an Armenian ‘gift’ for its stand on Kashmir
The Armenian genocide has been recognised by 34 countries, but India is still weighing its options to balance out its relations with Armenia and Turkey. This despite the fact that Erdogan constantly targets India over the Kashmir issue
Amitabh Singh, June 09, 2022

April 24 marked the commemoration of the Armenian genocide. The first phase began on 24 April 1915, as young Turks arrested and murdered hundreds of Armenian intellectuals and community leaders in Istanbul (Constantinople then). The killings were not only limited to the massacre of Armenian Christians but also of Assyrians, Greeks, Yazidis and other non-Muslim minorities. An estimated 7-15 lakh Armenians were killed due to policies carried out by the ruling elites. The number of people killed was through large-scale massacres and exiling them into uninhabitable desert tracts of modern-day Syria to eventually perish without food and water. The killings continued even after the formation of modern Turkey led by its republican rulers. The accounts of the destruction and killings have been well documented mainly in the US and British archives by the Armenian diaspora, which is scattered throughout the world and outnumbers the population of Armenia, the most numerous in Russia, the US, France, among others.
It is one of the most brutal massacres recorded in modern world history. This wide-scale killing inspired Polish lawyer, Raphael Lemkin, to conceptualise the term “genocide” and its eventual criminalisation. Genocide, as described by Lemkin, does not refer only to the physical extermination of the people but also the extinction of the victims' cultural, spiritual, and religious identity.
In Turkey, even after more than 100 years, any reference to the genocide is taken as an “attempt to denigrate national identity” and is punishable as per Turkish law. Turkey refuses to accept the term “genocide” because it happened between 1915 and 1917, and genocide as a legal term cannot be used retroactively. The popular perception amongst the Turkish population is that large-scale deportation of the Armenian population did take place as the Armenians had collaborated with Russia in World War I when the Russians attacked Anatolia. This event “might” have resulted in around 3,00,000 Armenians perishing in harsh and barren deserts of Syria. But the deportation was done as a punishment, and the resulting deaths were coincidental and were indeed not a “genocide” by any stretch of the imagination.
Though Turkey has always rejected the idea that it was a genocide, the reaction to its acceptance by various countries has become sharper in recent years with Recep Tayyip Erdogan at the helm of affairs. Erdogan, as the President, after the failed coup of 2016, which has been by far the bloodiest coup in its history, has consolidated power within his presidency and has taken a firm position against it. Turkey, of late, is pursuing a policy of ‘Neo-Ottomanism’, jettisoning the idea of a secular state and a pro-Western orientation that has been the hallmark of Kemalist ideology, which also meant that the Army was the protector of secularism and pro-Western orientation of the Russian state.
....
Gautam
Turkey has not yet paid a price of it's anti India actions, it is time to do so PDQ. By not reacting India may encourage similar behavior with similar thinking peoples. They may think that India does not share a border and is far away to effectively harm Turkey's interests, but not all dandas need to be military or need geographical proximity. From my personal experience in Goethe Institut, I can say that Turkey is hated by the Arabs and Kurds, due to their behavior during the Ottoman Empire. India has not been able use this feeling properly. Armenia is a special case and needs to be exploited carefully. There a large number of Armenians living in US and Europe that may be of help in addition to the state of Armenia, who look upon Turkey as a historical enemy. Greece and Cyprus are also promising too.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... tate-visit
Saudi crown prince visits Turkey as relations thaw after Khashoggi murder
Mohammed bin Salman welcomed by President Erdoğan in state visit expected to yield significant trade deals
Ruth Michaelson in Istanbul, 22 Jun 2022

The Saudi Arabian crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, arrived in the Turkish capital, Ankara, with a full ceremonial welcome, the beginning of a state visit ending years of animosity between the two countries that peaked with the murder of the journalist Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul in 2018.
“God willing, we will have the opportunity to assess to what much higher level we can take Turkey-Saudi Arabia relations,” Erdoğan said, announcing the sudden visit late last week. The visit, including a private meeting and a state dinner, is expected to yield significant trade deals from Turkey.
The crown prince’s arrival followed visits to Cairo and Jordan, his most significant international trip since December 2018 when he was met with protests in Tunisia and objections from Algerian journalists and intellectuals who called his visit “unethical and politically inappropriate”.
Prince Mohammed’s visit to Ankara also represents a major shift in Middle Eastern politics and the latest efforts to welcome Saudi Arabia back into the international community after pledges to isolate the kingdom because of Khashoggi’s murder.
The French president, Emmanuel Macron, visited Riyadh last December, while Boris Johnson visited in March to discuss increasing oil production.
Aslı Aydıntaşbaş, of the European Council on Foreign Relations thinktank, said: “I highly doubt that Turkey’s assessment of what happened to Khashoggi and how it happened has changed. But clearly they had to give these concessions to the Saudis and organise a public meeting, as that is the price of normalisation.
“Part of the Saudi demand for any possible normalisation and improved economic relationship has been a public declaration of this kiss-and-make-up. Turkey may have preferred to have more of a behind-the-scenes private de-escalation and normalisation, but the Saudi government very much wanted to make this public display and official recognition part of the normalisation between two countries.”
The US president, Joe Biden, is scheduled to visit Saudi Arabia and meet Prince Mohammed next month, a decision that rights activists and dissidents described as a “betrayal” of his previous promises to make the kingdom “a pariah”.
......
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https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/22/er ... in-salman/
Erdogan Hosts MBS in Ankara
Both sides are determined to put the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi behind them as they seek deeper ties.
Colm Quinn, JUNE 22, 2022

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman visits Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan in Ankara today, as the two leaders seek to close a contentious chapter and put the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi—which took place in Istanbul and outraged the Turkish government at the time—firmly in the past.
The visit caps a three-nation regional tour for the Saudi de facto leader. On Sunday, he met with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi in Cairo, and yesterday, he was embraced warmly by Jordanian King Abdullah II in Amman, Jordan.
Today’s visit could come with some short-terms gains for Erdogan, with the Turkish economy in need of outside investment as runaway consumer inflation (up to 73.5 percent this year) and an unorthodox monetary policy scare off more traditional backers.
But it also reinforces a wider trend, built on the perception of U.S. withdrawal from the Middle East. “I think the region is now going through a post-Arab Spring era where every single actor in the region has come to realize that the very aggressive and militaristic policies that they followed after the uprisings undermined their interests and their security,” Gonul Tol, director of the Turkey program at the Middle East Institute, told Foreign Policy.
.......
Gautam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_8p-bxIi28
Gravitas: Saudi Crown Prince meets Erdogan in Turkey
KLNMurthy
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by KLNMurthy »

Turkey downhill-skiing again?

We have seen this movie before, when Turkey shot down Russian fighters, acted tough, then quietly made up with Russia.

True, there are no permanent enemies in politics or IR, but this turning-on-a-dime is paki-level.

Maybe all India needs to do is to identify where the Turks keep their testimonials and apply the squeeze at the opportune moment.
g.sarkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by g.sarkar »

https://www.politico.eu/article/turkey- ... -solution/
When it comes to Erdoğan, there’s no easy solution
Turkey’s leveraging its newfound strategic relevance, and will continue to do so in the weeks and months ahead.
NATHALIE TOCCI, July 8, 2022

As of last week, Turkey has officially lifted its threatened veto on Sweden’s and Finland’s NATO membership — a remarkable achievement by Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, and one that was anything but assured.
Ahead of the alliance’s Madrid summit, the three countries agreed on a set of steps aimed at reassuring Ankara about the Nordic countries’ stance toward the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), as well as lifting restrictions on arms sales to Turkey. On top, United States President Joe Biden green-lit the sale of F16 fighter jets to Ankara — although this will still need to pass the test of Congress. And in return, Ankara backed NATO’s invitation to Helsinki and Stockholm.
This is likely just a taste of what’s to come in the West’s ongoing dance with Turkey. In fact, up until the Turkish presidential election next year, in which Recep Tayyip Erdoğan will seek reelection on the centenary of the Republic, the West should brace itself for what is likely to be another bumpy ride with Ankara.
Relations between Turkey and the West move in ebbs and flows. And in fairness, since the mid-2000s, ties have worsened, but the rate of deterioration has varied. The current dynamic now resembles that of two years ago, when tensions flared in the Eastern Mediterranean, with Greece and Turkey inching dangerously close to the precipice of war.
The bad news is that back then, like now, Erdoğan leveraged his country’s international status, escalating his foreign policy to extract domestic political gains. The good news is that in 2020, the escalation did not tip over — and hopefully it won’t this time either. While Ankara’s relations with the West may be fraught, and Erdoğan himself would probably like to jump ship, Turkey remains in the Western fold.
Back in 2020, Turkey’s military intervention in Libya had prevented Tripoli from falling to Khalifa Haftar. Creating a balance of forces between rival factions and their respective regional backers, this led to a ceasefire later that summer, and though it did not cement peace — as events today amply demonstrate — it did temporarily halt violence and prevent Libya from fragmenting. It also consolidated Turkey’s role in the country, and amplified Ankara’s influence in the region.
Erdoğan then leveraged that role to reverse the geopolitical dynamic that had been entrenching in the Eastern Mediterranean over the previous years. Triggered by gas discoveries and revolving around old rivalries, the region had seen a nascent axis between Cyprus, Greece, Egypt, France, Israel and the United Arab Emirates pitted against Turkey.
Turkey used its strengthened status in Libya to escalate tensions in the East Med, and this served the purpose of garnering domestic support for Erdoğan. In fact, when it comes to foreign policy, especially in the Mediterranean, Turks are relatively united in the belief that they have been wronged by the West — and especially by the EU, since Cyprus’ membership in 2004.
After Biden’s election, Erdoğan took a step back, reactivating bilateral talks with Greece and moving to mend ties with Egypt, UAE, Israel, as well as Saudi Arabia. And though relations with the EU and the U.S. didn’t dramatically improve, talks of sanctions did fade.
But now, the war in Ukraine has once again enhanced Turkish power, and an opportunistic Erdoğan seems keen to grab what he can.
......
Gautam
Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rony »

Türkiye Sees An Uptick In Indian Investments In Real Estate Sectors; Buyers Eye Turkish Citizenship
These Indians, mostly individuals from the Muslim community, hailing from across India’s major cities like New Delhi, Meerut, Lucknow, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Bengaluru and Thiruvananthapuram are seeking Turkish citizenship via real estate investments.
The new legislation in Türkiye now allows a foreign national who purchases real estate worth at least $400,000, roughly equivalent to Rs 3.1 crore, to be eligible for Turkish citizenship.

The only binding conditions are they need to deposit the money in a Turkish bank and not put the house up for sale for three years. Once these conditions are met foreign nationals can get a Turkish passport for themselves and their spouses and children aged below 18 years.

The move by the Turkish government is also aimed at supporting the real estate and construction sectors of the country.
The scope of visa-free travel to 120 destinations, free healthcare and education, a shot at better economic opportunities, higher quality of living and eligibility for US E-2 investor visa are some of the other perks that these Indians are eyeing.

There is also no obligation for permanent residency and Turkish passports within four months are attracting Indians as well. The lifetime Turkish citizenship for all direct family members as well as for children under 18 years of age and disabled children is a plus.

There is also no requirement of any eligibility interview or language proficiency tests. Any child who is disabled is entitled to the same benefits with no age bar.

There is also no obligation with respect to wealth declaration and income from sources outside Türkiye will not be taxed. Also 100% of the wealth will be repatriated after three years with no exchange control restrictions.
Tajamul Hussain, co-founder and CEO of Hashmi Group, a Türkiye-based firm with expertise in Turkish citizenship and residency by investment programs, however, urged interested investors to conduct due diligence before making any purchases. He said ahead of purchase, consultants should be roped in, rather than real estate agents who could dupe prospective investors and buyers.

He said that the uptick in investments in Türkiye are done by those who seek to make FDI investments in other countries.

Sadaquat Hussain, consultant of Hyderabad-based firm Indo-Turkish property consultants, said that some Indians are also purchasing agricultural lands in Türkiye.

Hyderabad-based chartered accountant Tariq Imam said that Indian residents (individuals) could invest only $250,000 (₹1.9 crore) per financial year as per Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA) rules but Indians are purchasing property in the name of the two family members after the Turkish government raised the real estate investment cap to $400,000.
Rudradev
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rudradev »

The number one priority will be to ensure that these pigs never, ever get OCI or PIO status.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Ambar »

Rudradev wrote:
The number one priority will be to ensure that these pigs never, ever get OCI or PIO status.
I doubt it if they are after Turkish citizenship, after all there is nothing in Turkey that is not available in India, and Turkey is nowhere near western level of quality of life. Most likely the modus operandi is to hide the wealth and the second intention could be to use the Turkish passport and take advantage of European mainland if and when Turkey is admitted to EU. Agreed that Turkey should be in the list of countries where its citizens should not be eligible for OCI/PIO.
Aldonkar
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Aldonkar »

Ambar wrote:
Rudradev wrote:
The number one priority will be to ensure that these pigs never, ever get OCI or PIO status.
I doubt it if they are after Turkish citizenship, after all there is nothing in Turkey that is not available in India, and Turkey is nowhere near western level of quality of life. Most likely the modus operandi is to hide the wealth and the second intention could be to use the Turkish passport and take advantage of European mainland if and when Turkey is admitted to EU. Agreed that Turkey should be in the list of countries where its citizens should not be eligible for OCI/PIO.
Greece and Cyprus will veto any Turkish request for membership. This is a topic that has come up in the Tory leadership race as Penny Mordaunt stated that (when in the EU) Britain did not have a veto, incorrectly as it turns out. I do not think France is too keen either.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Bart S »

Ambar wrote:
Rudradev wrote:
The number one priority will be to ensure that these pigs never, ever get OCI or PIO status.
I doubt it if they are after Turkish citizenship, after all there is nothing in Turkey that is not available in India, and Turkey is nowhere near western level of quality of life. Most likely the modus operandi is to hide the wealth and the second intention could be to use the Turkish passport and take advantage of European mainland if and when Turkey is admitted to EU. Agreed that Turkey should be in the list of countries where its citizens should not be eligible for OCI/PIO.
It's something more sinister. Turkey is what Dubai and Saudi were in the 80s, remember that they sheltered all sorts of terrorists like Dawood Ibrahim for a long time till they finally got out of that line of business. Turkey has filled that role, basically serving as a jihad/Islamist hotbed and proxy entity for Pakistan and the Muslim Brotherhood. A lot of the Hurriyat separatist types have settled in Turkey under some pretext or the other and use it as base to spew venom on India. You can bet that most of those settling in Turkey from India would have razakar type lineage.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rony »

Can Turkey Afford Its Military ?
While Turkey has more troops under arms than France and Germany combined, it is a mistake to translate this into indispensability or even influence. The size of the military is a direct result of conscription. Mandatory military service, however, does not often translate into power. Before Operation Desert Storm, the 1991 liberation of Kuwait, Iraq had the fifth largest army in the world, but still folded after a ground campaign of just 100 hours.

Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, the founder of modern Turkey, rose to fame as an Ottoman military officer, but his legacy was as much his attempt at Turkey’s social transformation. Here, conscription played a major role as it enabled the state to re-educate and indoctrinate every male in the country. Today, Erdogan uses the army in much the same way as he tries to impose a conservative, Islamist order on society.

Nuland can spout empty rhetoric about Turkey protecting NATO’s southern and eastern flanks, but the reality is Turkey endangers those flanks more than protects them. There would have been no Islamic State in Syria had it not been for Turkey. Turkey’s efforts to allow both Russia and Iran to evade sanctions encourages aggression. State Department bothsiderism aside, Turkey is the aggressor in the Eastern Mediterranean, not Cyprus or Greece.

But even if Ankara’s army’s power was proportional to its numbers, that too is changing. Erdogan has bankrupted the country; the swaps and fraudulent accounting he uses to cover that reality will be increasingly apparent after September. Inflation is already triple digit and living standards plummet. A financial crash is on the horizon, but no bailout will be coming without austerity. Turkey’s debt-to-gross domestic product (GDP) ratio may only be 42 percent, a sharp increase from years past, but it is foolish to assume that Erdogan allows Turkey to provide accurate figures; Turkish debt is far higher than Ankara acknowledges. International lenders privately acknowledge this. They will soon question whether a bankrupt state can spend upwards of $20 billion annually on a bloated military that does more to destabilize the region than protect Turkey.

Ankara fulfills the NATO demand that each member country spend two percent of its GDP on defense, but even if Ankara means to maintain that commitment, a shrinking GDP will lower what Turkey can reasonably spend by perhaps 50 percent or more.
Simply put, as Turkey’s economy implodes, Ankara can no longer afford conscription. While Turkey and its lobbyists may seek to demand diplomatic influence proportional to the size of Turkey’s army, diplomats who accept such arguments are enabling Turkish delusions. It is time for NATO to accept that, with Turkey’s GDP less than Italy and Spain’s, the idea that it can maintain an army respectively twice and four times as large is irresponsible. Ankara’s bloated military is no longer sustainable.
NRao
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by NRao »

That "article" is written by Dr. ( :) ) Michael Rubin, a very close associate of Fred Kagan and a member of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), Fred is the brother-in-law of none other than the very colorful Victoria Nuland, yes, the Victoria who is the author of the Maidan whatever in 2014 in Ukraine.

While all of what Rubin says could be true, it is a planted article. After all Turkey IS the guarantor of grain shipments from Ukraine using Odessa AND guarantees - to the Russians - that NO arms will come with the in-bound ships - a deal that Turkey brokered along with the UN. Besides the "exporting of grain from Ukraine" angle is that Russia - a signatory to this (more if you need details) - has promised to actually stop ALL Russian naval activities in the Odessa area for 120 days = the length of the deal brokered by Turkey.

Fred, (wife) Kim, (brother) Michael Kagan, along with (wife) Victoria Nuland HATE Turkey for negotiating this deal. Turkey with two signatures broke their (private) sanctions.

_________________________

This is no better than when Macron told Kiev to negotiate and immediately after a news item poped up that Macron had done some hera-pheri WRT Uber in France when he was some minister. :rotfl: Macron immediately - ON Bastille Day nonetheless - reversed course. :D

__________________________

We are entering a new phase: multipolar world.

What we are witnessing is the jockeying going on between various nations.

Get your fav drink and enjoy the ride.

Do not take anything seriously.
Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rony »

NRao wrote: Besides the "exporting of grain from Ukraine" angle is that Russia - a signatory to this (more if you need details) - has promised to actually stop ALL Russian naval activities in the Odessa area for 120 days = the length of the deal brokered by Turkey.
Russia fires missiles at Odesa port hours after signing grain export deal

So much for Turkey being the guarantor :rotfl:
NRao
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by NRao »

Rony wrote:
NRao wrote: Besides the "exporting of grain from Ukraine" angle is that Russia - a signatory to this (more if you need details) - has promised to actually stop ALL Russian naval activities in the Odessa area for 120 days = the length of the deal brokered by Turkey.
Russia fires missiles at Odesa port hours after signing grain export deal

So much for Turkey being the guarantor :rotfl:
Did you get your fav drink, Rony bhai?

U.N. expects Ukraine-Russia grain deal to be implemented in a few weeks -officials

The deal AND the guarantee have NOT gone into effect!!!!!!!!!

Russia still has the right - per the deal - to do as they please.

So does the Western press, which knowing the deal will not go into effect for some time STILL published the story and you fell for it - which IS influenced by the AEI (Fred Kagan), ISW (Kim Kagan, wife of Fred), Brookings (Michael Kagan husband of Victoria Nuland and younger brother of Fred)

_________________________

On a very serious note, till the end of this year avoid taking any news item seriously.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by NRao »

^^^^^

As a FYI, the "weeks" are needed to de-mine Odessa port. WHICH has to be done by the Ukrainians. IF Ukraine does the de-mining in a week, then the in-bound ships can come in to pick up the grains and the agreement will go into effect next week. IF it take Ukraine 15 weeks, then the agreement goes into effect in 15 weeks.

AND, Ukraine is NOT an independent state/nation. Enough said.

Get you fav drink.
Rudradev
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rudradev »

NRao wrote:
That "article" is written by Dr. ( :) ) Michael Rubin, a very close associate of Fred Kagan and a member of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), Fred is the brother-in-law of none other than the very colorful Victoria Nuland, yes, the Victoria who is the author of the Maidan whatever in 2014 in Ukraine.

While all of what Rubin says could be true, it is a planted article.

...

Get your fav drink and enjoy the ride.

Do not take anything seriously.
Putting soap-opera conspiracy theories aside, Michael Rubin is one of the few consistent friends India has in the American media and think-tank establishment.

As a member of the Middle East Forum, Rubin has done a lot to uncover Turkish-Pakistani influence campaigns and Muslim Brotherhood propaganda against Modi's India, drilling deep down to expose individual "activists" like Peter Friedrich and Shaikh Ubaid of IAMC.

So let's not spit in whatever little rasam we have, please.
kit
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by kit »

Rudradev wrote:
NRao wrote:
...

Get your fav drink and enjoy the ride.

Do not take anything seriously.
Putting soap-opera conspiracy theories aside, Michael Rubin is one of the few consistent friends India has in the American media and think-tank establishment.

As a member of the Middle East Forum, Rubin has done a lot to uncover Turkish-Pakistani influence campaigns and Muslim Brotherhood propaganda against Modi's India, drilling deep down to expose individual "activists" like Peter Friedrich and Shaikh Ubaid of IAMC.

So let's not spit in whatever little rasam we have, please.

Rudra ji , with due respect you do seem to have a "soft" corner for the US state dept and its company :mrgreen: ., i remember you trashing all the news about cia involvement in the assassination of LBS and HB
Rudradev
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rudradev »

kit wrote:
Rudradev wrote:
Putting soap-opera conspiracy theories aside, Michael Rubin is one of the few consistent friends India has in the American media and think-tank establishment.

As a member of the Middle East Forum, Rubin has done a lot to uncover Turkish-Pakistani influence campaigns and Muslim Brotherhood propaganda against Modi's India, drilling deep down to expose individual "activists" like Peter Friedrich and Shaikh Ubaid of IAMC.

So let's not spit in whatever little rasam we have, please.

Rudra ji , with due respect you do seem to have a "soft" corner for the US state dept and its company :mrgreen: ., i remember you trashing all the news about cia involvement in the assassination of LBS and HB
Kit ji, with due respect you might want to read more before offering an opinion.

1) Please read my post. It is not about the US State Dept, it is about Michael Rubin.

You may want to look up the history of articles written by Michael Rubin (meforum.org, nationalinterest.org) on India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Muslim Brotherhood, Turkey, Qatar, Israel, Islamism, and many other relevant topics. Please read (at least) some of these too.

India's enemies have many, many shills in the media and think tanks. India has very few supporters. Michael Rubin is unquestionably one of India's supporters (or at least, as much of a supporter as any American could be of India in the public sphere).

Rubin is a strongly pro-Israel voice, and he recognizes the value of the Indo-Israel strategic partnership, therefore he pushes back whenever he can against the large number of Islamist propaganda outlets (from Ilhan Omar to NY Times to Al Jazeera) that constantly peddle the "Hindutva fascist" narrative against India.

Obviously there are limits to how pro-India Rubin can be in public, being an American first. But you can't apply ridiculous standards to foreigners when our own Indian media so often produces BIF discourse.

So it is counterproductive, to say the least, when we try to undermine the credibility of one of the few relatively pro-India voices out there by saying that his extended family members work in this that or the other. If there is anything he has himself written that is explicitly anti-India, let's see it.

2) Please read my reply on your (frankly unbelievable) defence of that supposed "Crowley" book in the Indo-US thread.
viewtopic.php?p=2559399#p2559399

The point is not that Robert Crowley could not have been anti-India. Very probably, even likely, he was.

The point is that BRF-ites (if they want to preserve their credibility) should check the validity of a particular source before they start shouting and yelling and throwing :(( :( :cry: :evil: tantrums on the basis of that 'source'.

This applies to arguments that are pro-US, anti-US, or pro- or against anything else in the world.

If you cite some made-up nonsense as the "proof" of your argument, what does it do to your argument? And to your standing when making future arguments? Think about it.

3) Finally, I have been at BRF since 1999 as a lurker and since 2003 as a posting member. The full track record of my posts is publicly available.

Please read the entire history of them before you start making claims about who I may or may not have a soft corner for. Otherwise, it is you who are establishing a 'pattern'. :)
Last edited by Rudradev on 25 Jul 2022 22:56, edited 1 time in total.
Bart S
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Bart S »

It's true that Micheal Rubin is one of the few honest and pro-India commentators in the beltway circuit.
Vayutuvan
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Vayutuvan »

kit wrote:..., i remember you trashing all the news about cia involvement in the assassination of LBS and HB
Where is the profit in publicizing this story (fiction or not)?!!! Let us take it to one of the two threads - "Understanding US" or "Indo-US relations". If you don't mind, saar kit.
NRao
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by NRao »

My post was to highlight that Rubin, within the much larger picture, is an irrelevant, small fish (which apparently I did a very poor job of. Apologies)

Rubin, unlike his bosses does not move the needle.

Nonetheless, very glad to learn Rubin is pro-India.

More some time in the UKR fallout thread.
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rudradev »

No worries, NRao garu. Apologies if my response seemed harsh, I did not intend it to.
NRao
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by NRao »

NP

Blue on blue, not worth it
JE Menon
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by JE Menon »

Rudradev wrote:
India's enemies have many, many shills in the media and think tanks. India has very few supporters. Michael Rubin is unquestionably one of India's supporters (or at least, as much of a supporter as any American could be of India in the public sphere).

Rubin is a strongly pro-Israel voice, and he recognizes the value of the Indo-Israel strategic partnership, therefore he pushes back whenever he can against the large number of Islamist propaganda outlets (from Ilhan Omar to NY Times to Al Jazeera) that constantly peddle the "Hindutva fascist" narrative against India.

Obviously there are limits to how pro-India Rubin can be in public, being an American first. But you can't apply ridiculous standards to foreigners when our own Indian media so often produces BIF discourse.
Amen
Rony
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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Post by Rony »

Record number of Indians visit Turkey in June; footfalls cross 27,300
Factors like the ease of procuring visas for personal and leisure travel along with the resumption of direct flights by Turkish Airlines and Indigo could be some of the factors for this spurt in demand from India, it added.

Turkiye welcomed 5.2 crore travellers in 2019, touching USD 34.5 billion in tourism revenue.

Of these, 2.3 lakh were Indian nationals, which is the highest number of Indian travellers recorded visiting Turkiye to date, the data showed.
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