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Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 23 Aug 2016 01:43
by g.sarkar ... s-the-eye/
There’s more to Turkey’s failed coup than meets the eye
Russian President Vladimir Putin did on Sunday what no major western leader from the NATO member countries cared to do when he telephoned his Turkish counterpart Recep Erdogan to convey his sympathy, goodwill and best wishes for the latter’s success in restoring constitutional order and stability as soon as possible after the attempted coup Friday night. (Kremlin website)
The US Secretary of State John Kerry instead made an overnight air dash to Brussels to have a breakfast meeting on Monday with the EU foreign ministers to discuss a unified stance on the crisis in Turkey. The French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault was in an angry mood ahead of the breakfast, saying “questions” have arisen as to whether Turkey is any longer a “viable” ally. He voiced “suspicions” over Turkey’s intentions and insisted that European backing for Erdogan against the coup was not a “blank cheque” for him to suppress his opponents.
The US has expressed displeasure regarding the Turkish allegations of an American hand in the failed coup. Indeed, Turkish allegation has no precedent in NATO’s 67-year old history – of one member plotting regime change in another member country through violent means. Clearly, US and Turkey are on a collision course over the extradition of the Islamist preacher Fetullah Gulen living in exile in Pennsylvania whom the Turkish government has named as the key plotter behind the coup. Turkish Prime Minister Binali Yildirim has warned that Ankara will regard the US as an “enemy” if it harbored Gulen. The dramatic developments expose the cracks appearing in the western alliance system. (See the commentary in the Russian news agency Sputnik entitled NATO R.I.P (1949-2016): Will Turkey-US Rift Over Gulen Destroy Alliance?)
Interestingly, the senior Turkish army officials detained so far include the following:
Commander of the Incirlik air base (and 10 of his subordinates) where NATO forces are located and 90 percent of the US’ tactical nuclear weapons in Europe are stored;
Army Commander in charge of the border with Syria and Iraq;
Corps Commander who commands the NATO contingency force based in Istanbul; and,
Former military attaches in Israel and Kuwait.......

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 23 Aug 2016 05:39
by Cosmo_R
Bheeshma wrote:Turkey should be ignored like pakis. Anyway an independent kurdistan is very much in India's interest.The bomb attack was turkish govt sponsored strike on Kurds.

A dialog with Kurdish voices would have the same impact. Let Kurds, Uighurs, Balochis, Baltis come to India. Let them speak. Amplify Bangladeshi voices who want the 1970/71 genocide to be recognized.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 23 Aug 2016 06:24
by SSridhar
It appears more and more to me that the attack on the wedding was engineered by the Turkish State itself. Besides the fact that it was a Kurdish wedding that was bombed and all those killed were Kurds, See the following from an AFP report;
Hurriyet said the type of bomb used -- stuffed with 2-3 centimetre shards of iron and detonated with C-4 explosives -- was similar to that used in previous suicide bombings against pro-Kurdish gatherings blamed on IS in the border town of Suruc and at Ankara train station last year.

Immediately, the Turkish Army has taken advantage of the bombing to shell the PYD areas across the border in Syria. The pointers are clear.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 25 Aug 2016 05:10
by ramana
Israeli paper got it right that Turkey has invaded Syria.

BBC and US papers were extolling the Turkish drive against "ISIS".

I am coming to thinking the Erdogan purge is like Stalin purge of Trotsky supporters. it ended up in personality cult and laid foundation for demise of FSU 50 years later

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 27 Aug 2016 10:54
by arun
X Posted from the STFUP thread.

Hong Kong based newspaper the South China Morning Post reports that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Deeper then Indian Ocean, Higher than Himalaya’s, Sweeter than Honey, Purer than Ever Flowing Water, Closer than Lips to Teeth Iron Brother, the Peoples Republic of China, orders hostels not to offer accommodation to citizens of the Islamic Republic on security grounds.

Interestingly the P.R. Chinese Police has only targeted citizens of Mohammadden majority countries which besides the Islamic Republic of Pakistan includes Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and that poster child of “Moderate Islam”, Turkey:

Hostels in southern China told to refuse guests from five Middle Eastern and Asian nations : Nationals from Afghanistan, Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Pakistan won’t be allowed to stay in smaller facilities in Guangzhou starting from this week ‘to reduce security risks’

PUBLISHED : Friday, 26 August, 2016, 2:02am
UPDATED : Friday, 26 August, 2016, 9:54am

Some hostel operators in Guangzhou said police have ordered them to turn away guests from five Asian and Middle East nations until mid next month.

Hostels in various parts of the city have confirmed to the South China Morning Post that local police asked them to turn away guests from Afghanistan, Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Pakistan starting from this week.

The 11th Pan-Pearl River Delta Regional Cooperation and Development Forum was being held in Guangzhou on Thursday and Friday, while the G20 leaders’ summit will be hosted in the eastern Chinese city of Hangzhou on September 4-5. ……………………..

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 27 Aug 2016 12:44
by g.sarkar ... 09649.html
Syria à la Carte: Turkish Invasion Highlights Rapidly Shifting Alliances
By Maximilian Popp and Christoph Reuter

The Turkish advance into northern Syria marks a turning point in the Syrian conflict. Its nominal target was Islamic State, but with large powers reconsidering their alliances in the region, the Kurds stand to lose the most.
One common description of chaos theory holds that the flapping of a butterfly's wings can trigger a tornado. And it could very well be that the theory is the best tool we currently have available to describe the complex situation in Syria. The butterfly wings in this case was the late July decision by the Syrian regime to recruit new tribal militia fighters in a remote northeastern province. The tornado it triggered four weeks later was threefold: the invasion of northern Syria by the Turkish army; the sudden expulsion of Islamic State from the border town of Jarabulus; and the US military suddenly finding itself on both sides of a new front in Syria -- that between the Turks and the Kurds.
"It is 3:30 p.m. and we have almost reached the center of Jarabulus and have suffered almost no casualties. But we only just crossed the border this morning!" Saif Abu Bakr, a defected lieutenant and commander with the rebel group Hamza Division, sounded on Wednesday as though he couldn't believe what had just happened. "We set off with 20 Turkish tanks and 100 Turkish troops from Karkamis" -- the border town in Turkey -- "and headed through the villages west of the city and then on to Jarabulus."
More than two-and-a-half years after Islamic State (IS) conquered the border city, displaying the heads of its adversaries on fence posts in the process, the jihadist tumor was removed in mere hours. Jarabulus was one of the last IS bastions on the Turkish border and the group had long been able to use the border crossing there unchallenged, allowing them to funnel both men and materiel into the parts of Syria under their control. "Almost all of them fled three days ago, except for a few local followers and a couple of foreigners," Umm Chalid, a widow from the city, said of the IS fighters. "All the residents left too. We knew that something would happen."
he invasion in the north is a turning point in the Syrian war, marking the first time that Turkey has become directly involved in the conflict. At the same time, many of the complicated alliances in the region are suddenly shifting, with some allies becoming estranged and some enemies discovering common interests.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 29 Sep 2016 15:11
by Bhurishravas ... -to-turkey
Netherlands calls on EU to suspend aid to Turkey

The main opposition Socialist Party (SP) and Christian Union (CU) offered a motion that proposes to halt 600 million euros of yearly aid to Turkey with respect to the country's "applicant" status to the EU, by claiming Turkey is going away from the "principles of the state of law" after the failed July 15 coup attempt. The motion, which requests Brussels take action regarding the issue, was supported by other opposition parties in parliament.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 29 Sep 2016 18:17
by Bhurishravas ... SKCN11Z0XP

Defying critics, Turkey's Erdogan says to extend state of emergency

"It would be in Turkey's benefit to extend the state of emergency for three months," Erdogan told a group of provincial leaders in Ankara. "They say one year isn't right for Turkey. Let's wait and see, maybe 12 months won't be enough."

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 01 Oct 2016 01:13
by Bhurishravas

Greece has reacted angrily after Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan appeared to question a treaty that set borders between the two countries.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 02 Oct 2016 17:17
by wig
Syria civil war: Turkey sends 1,000 special forces on secretive mission to secure ‘security zone’ across border ... 40171.html
The Turkish military, with armour, air-power and troops on the ground – a thousand of them special forces – are moving deeper into Syria, along with Syrian opposition fighters, setting up a “security zone” across the border. Operation Euphrates Shield has been marked for Ankara by increasing acrimony with Washington and warming of relations with Moscow. The Turkish forces have attacked Kurdish fighters who are America’s key allies in the fight against Isis, while Russia, busy securing Aleppo for ally Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, has given tacit approval for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s actions in northern Syria

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 01 Jan 2017 08:18
by arun
Terrorist attack of unknown variety, though it would come as zero surprise to me if it was of the Green on Green Intra Mohammadden belief fuelled variety where the more piously green exterminates the less piously green, kills 35 in Turkey.

Attack shows that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s boastful offer of his “Mediation Skills” for solving the Jammu and Kashmir issue (Clicky) which he made in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan where he said "when people look for mediators , why don't they talk to me ? I have great mediation skills. Look at how I have effectively dealt with the Kurdish problem", is desperately needed for solving problems within Turkey herself:

Istanbul Reina nightclub attack 'leaves 35 dead'

Meanwhile consequences of Erdogan’s “effectively dealt” “Kurdish problem” along with other sundry problems in Turkey from the above posted BBC link:

10 December: Twin bomb attack outside a football stadium in Istanbul kills 44 people, Kurdish militant group claims responsibility

20 August: Bomb attack on wedding party in Gaziantep kills at least 30 people, IS suspected

30 July: 35 Kurdish fighters try to storm a military base and are killed by the Turkish army

28 June: A gun and bomb attack on Ataturk airport in Istanbul kills 41 people, in an attack blamed on IS militants

13 March: 37 people are killed by Kurdish militants in a suicide car bombing in Ankara

17 February: 28 people die in an attack on a military convoy in Ankara

Given Turkeys problems as brought out by the Terrorist attacks there, I say to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that I will not begrudge him using all his “Mediation Skills” in solving problems of his own country leaving none to solve problems in Jammu & Kashmir.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 01 Jan 2017 08:40
by arun
Wall Street Journal national security reporter, Dion Nissenbaum, released after being detained by Turkey for three days:

WSJ: Reporter detained in Turkey for nearly 3 days released

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 01 Jan 2017 19:44
by arun
As Turkey comes to term with the New Year’s Eve bombing of an Istanbul Nightclub, Mark Almond writing in the Daily Telegraph poses a question to Turkey that touches upon the example of Turkey’s great friend the Mohammadden Terrorist Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Is Turkey becoming a sick man on the edge of Europe? A kind of Pakistan with the radical jihadis of Syria providing its own Taliban-threat?

Sadly, after decades of promoting Turkey as a model for it to follow, the country now risks slipping down the road pioneered by Pakistan.

Mark Almond also questions Turkish President Erdogan’s ability to get to grips with the self-inflicted problems notwithstanding his loud boast of having “great mediation skills” (Clicky) which he without an invitation wished to apply to solve the J&K problem.

In times of crisis when violence stalks the land people cry out for a strongman to get a grip on the problem. But what if terrorism spawns chaos in a country already under the thumb of a strong man?

Turkey is in a uniquely awful position. It now has the strongest president since the military coup in 1980, possibly since Ataturk himself ninety years ago.

But President Erdogan’s extraordinary skill in consolidating his power has not been matched by an ability to solve the country’s problems.

Bizarrely, Erdogan is a control freak who is not really on top of the threats facing his society.

From the UK’s Daily Telegraph, here:

The stream of violence in Turkey shows President Erdogan is a control freak who can't tame his own country

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 01 Jan 2017 20:21
by arun
Very sadly two of our fellow citizens have been killed in the Istanbul terrorist attack. May the Gods grant them Moksha and their families the fortitude to bear the loss:

ISTANBUL — A gunman opened fire at a nightclub in Istanbul filled with New Year’s revelers about an hour after midnight Sunday, killing at least 39 people and injuring scores of others, according to Turkish officials.

Fifteen of the people killed were foreigners, the Foreign Ministry said. They included three Jordanians; two Indians; a Tunisian couple; a teenager from Israel; a Lebanese man; and a dual citizen of Belgium and Turkey, according to news agencies and government statements.

Sixty-nine people were hospitalized, four of them in critical condition. Among the scores of injured people were citizens of France, Israel, Morocco, Libya and Saudi Arabia. …………………

From here:

Terrorist Attack at Nightclub in Istanbul Kills Dozens

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 10 Jan 2017 03:13
by Bhurishravas
Delusional expectations from Turkey’s new constitution

It is not hard to imagine whose benefit this effort is aimed at. Under the proposed system, the president will run the country according to his specific worldview, because what is being proposed is that he will also be the leader of a political party.
In other words, the president will not represent every citizen, because he will stand for specific political beliefs that those who did not vote for him do not subscribe to. We already see how political opponents of the ruling party are treated in this country. ... sCatID=416

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 11 Feb 2017 20:33
by Bhurishravas ... his-powers

Turkey's Erdoğan paves way for April vote on consolidation of power.
Referendum to be held after president approves bill on constitutional changes that could allow him to rule until 2029

Turkey’s president has approved a bill granting him broad new powers under an executive presidential system, paving the way for a referendum in mid-April on the proposed changes.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Feb 2017 20:09
by Bhurishravas ... tion=click

“No country and no society can only think of its comfort and its own future when its neighbors are living in deprivation and its brothers, who speak the same language and turn toward [Mecca], face oppression,” he said, adding that the faith and sorrow of the people of the region were the same.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 09 Mar 2017 10:27
by ramana
The big picture of 21st century geopolitics is Turkey Russia have turned their backs on trying to Europeanize. This quest is about 400 years old. In case of Russia started with Peter the Great London trip in 1660s. Turkey w I think defeat at Vienna in 1684.
Russia liberated most of Eastern Europe from Ottoman Turkey.

Now both are together.

We should look more at Turkey as it impacts many Indian interests.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 10 Mar 2017 07:31
by ramana
I was hearing a podcast interview of Chaz Freeman a former US diplomat. Googling I found his speech at a different audience: ... l-context/

Sooner or later, all great powers learn that they cannot hope to conduct a successful policy toward a very long list of countries and organizations without Turkish cooperation or acquiescence. Turkish positions on foreign policy issues are of vital interest to:

☛ Turkey’s immediate neighbors – Armenia, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Georgia, Greece, Iran, Iraq, and Syria;

☛ Nations in or closely related to the former Ottoman domain – Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, the Balkan countries, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, and the Gulf Arab states;

☛ The Turkic-speaking peoples of the Caspian Basin and Central Asia as far east as Chinese Xinjiang;

☛ Russia, (Turkey’s historic rival) and the fifteen percent or more of Russians who profess Islam; and

☛ Wealthy and powerful associations of nations, like the European Union, NATO, and the fifty-seven member-strong Organization of Islamic Cooperation.


But a series of developments, including Israel’s renewed savaging of Gaza, the overthrow of Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak, the rise and fall of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, and the destabilization of Syria by the final stage of the Arab uprisings of 2011 have utterly transformed this image. Turkey now has no neighbors with which it does not have major problems. And, long before the failed putsch of July 2016, President Erdoğan was engaged in rooting out Gülenist influence at home and abroad. Turkey has come to be seen as an atavistic autocracy that has badly lost its way. It is on the warpath against its own Kurds as well as those in Syria, who have been U.S. allies in the fight to degrade Daesh – the so-called Islamic Caliphate. And it has taken sides in many intra-Arab quarrels.


Turkey is adapting to a truly remarkable range of changes in its international environment. These include:

☛ Russia’s post-Cold War weakness, US-sponsored Ukrainian and Georgian assertiveness against Russia, and the reemergence of NATO as an anti-Russian alliance in an era when Russia poses few credible threats to Turkey;

☛ The collapse of the post-Ottoman Sykes-Picot regional order;

☛ The civil war in Syria and the massive human dislocations it has generated;

☛ The relative success of aggressive Kurdish autonomy in Iraq and Syria;

☛ Renewed terrorism at home by Kurds as well as combatants from Syria;

☛ An increasingly disunited, anti-Muslim, and otherwise unwelcoming EU;

☛ Iran’s expansion of its influence in West Asia;

☛ The emergence of Saudi and other Gulf Arab sectarian chauvinism and overt Saudi-Iranian geopolitical rivalry;

☛ Israel’s international self-delegitimization and isolation;

☛ Egypt’s politico-economic implosion;

☛ The unrelenting crusade of the Armenian diaspora to condemn the Turks for genocide;

☛ Estrangement from the U.S. and its policies as well as major European members of NATO; and

☛ Diminished credibility for the United States as a protector of client states in the region, including the U.S. nuclear umbrella, in an era in which Russia is upping its reliance on its nuclear arsenal.


It is striking that the United States is irrelevant or a negative factor in all of them. That illustrates a little-noticed new element in the geopolitical realities that determine the US-Turkish relationship. America now needs Turkey much more than Turkey needs America to conduct its wars and carry out diplomacy in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Iran, Israel-Palestine, Egypt, and Afghanistan, not to mention the EU, NATO, and the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. This gives Turkey a bargaining position and freedom of maneuver in the current regional order that it lacked in the Cold War, when the Soviet Union was a menace that overhung everything else Turkey can now afford to adopt foreign policy positions independent of or even antagonistic to those of the United States. Without regard to America, it can and is exploring:

☛ Abandoning its hostility to Russia and crafting selective regional partnerships with it in the Caucasus and the Levant;

☛ Cooperating with Russia and Iran in Syria;

☛ Sponsoring Kurdish satellite states or working with the Kurds’ Arab and Iranian neighbors to crush them;

☛ Revised relationships with the United States and NATO — ranging from active cooperation to de facto withdrawal from NATO (on the Gaullist model) – in favor of strategic independence;

☛ Using refugee and other migration issues as leverage against the EU;

☛ Abandoning any effort to join the EU, given European Turkophobia and Islamophobia;

☛ Developing a political system that is more Islamist; and

☛ Arming itself with nuclear weapons – as Russia, Israel, and Europe have — and as many speculate Iran is yet likely to do.

So how to identify Indian interests and craft a policy towards Turkey?

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 10 Mar 2017 21:20
by Bhurishravas
Turkey has made its position quite clear on various issues of concern to India. From Kashmir to the hanging of terrorists in bangladesh, it has been more vocal than even the pakis.
It has also been seeking defence cooperation with the Pakis. Erdogan is a thorough islamist and sunni pakistan is a natural ally to him.

"So how to identify Indian interests and craft a policy towards Turkey? "
Good question.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 10 Mar 2017 23:24
by Bheeshma
Support Kurdistan. That should be India's policy.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 13 Mar 2017 22:43
by Bhurishravas ... 38106.html
UN accuses Turkey of abuses in country's southeast.

The human rights office is "particularly alarmed about the results of satellite imagery analysis, which indicate an enormous scale of destruction of the housing stock by heavy weaponry", the report said.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 05:10
by sudhan
Looks like Turkey and China will march alongside the pigs on Pakistan day..

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 12:36
by g.sarkar ... 38525.html
Erdogan's Perfect Storm
Netherlands Dispute Gives Turkey Perfect Election Fodder
Ankara is piling on in its dispute with the Netherlands after the country refused to allow key government members to hold political rallies in the country over the weekend. Turkey is calling for retaliation in the "harshest ways" and President Erdogan has found the perfect election issue.
March 13, 2017
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, it seemed, had run out of stories to tell. He had retold the legend of his rise from the very bottom of society to the political pinnacle, and of his energetic battle against his country's enemies, so often that his referendum campaign had long felt like a repeat of earlier elections.
Turkish voters are slated to cast ballots on April 16 on the introduction of a presidential system that would transfer virtually all power in the country to the president. But Erdogan has had a tough time persuading voters of the need for these reforms.
Now, though, it is the Europeans, of all people who are feeding Erdogan the arguments he needs. The moves in recent days by politicians in Germany and the Netherlands to prevent Turkish politicians from making campaign appearances in those countries have once again lent relevance to Erdogan's campaign. The dispute with Europe allows Erdogan to play his favorite role: that of a fearless outsider taking on the world's powerful.
Merkel Deflects Criticism
In Germany, a number of cities in recent days banned events that had been planned with members of Erdogan's government. Various pretexts were cited, from concerns about fire safety to an alleged lack of parking spaces. In response, Erdogan accused the German government of "Nazi practices." German Chancellor Angela Merkel responded with cool reserve, deflecting the criticism in a way that made it appear the issue had been laid to rest.
But now the conflict has escalated again. On Saturday, the Netherlands revoked landing rights for Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Cavusoglu's plane and then blocked Family Minister Beytül Kaya from entering the Turkish Consulate in Rotterdam that night before forcing her to drive back to Germany, from whence she had come.
The Turkish government reacted with outrage. Erdogan's spokesman, Ibrahim Kalin, lamented a "dark day for democracy in Europe" in a tweet. "Shame on the Dutch government for succumbing to anti-Islam racists and fascists," he added in another. Turkish Finance Minister Naci Agbal said Europe was in the process of reestablishing National Socialism.


Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 12:46
by Karthik S
Don't follow turkey, but are they punching above their weight wrt Europe, India, pakis etc ?

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 14:10
by Philip
"Whom the gods wish to destroy,they first turn mad". Ancient saying. Erdogan is in fact the Nazi pig who has turned his nation into a vast concentration camp with his "coup-de-countercoup" ,using the opportunity to send anyone whom his paranoia feels a threat to him,to a Turkish jail and we've all seen "MIdnight express" haven't we?!

To see him railing and ranting ,frothing at the mouth like a latter-day Islamist fuhrer,the neo-Ottoman would-be Sultan, is entertainment "formidable",as the French would say.However,in truth,this cut-price Caliph is a dangerous loose cannon as he is deliberately winding up the passions of the Turkish diaspora across Europe,fifth-columnist potential,to scourge Europe with terror and violent protest.The Slut-an's threat to unleash hundreds of thousands of ME refugees into Europe to overwhelm it,has only seen the instant increase in support of the far right in the EU.How many more German frauleins and fraus have to be raped by refugees and immigrants from the Muslim world before the Germans too go berserk?

Geert WIlders in the Netherlands has the strongest medicine prescribed thus far by any leader. His medicine.
He is vowing to "de-Islamise" the Netherlands by shutting mosques and Islamic schools, banning the Koran and having "zero asylum seekers and no immigrants anymore from Islamic countries".
Muslims make up about 6 per cent of the Dutch population, mostly from Moroccan and Turkish backgrounds.
While campaigning in February, Mr Wilders said, "there is a lot of Moroccan scum in Holland who make the streets unsafe, mostly young people — and that should change".

It may sound very harsh,but with dangerous buffoons like Erdogan running riot internationally,abusing the Europeans who've provided refuge,hospitality,nationality and jobs for Turks,it may all come to pass. ... -rotterdam
Turkey bans Dutch ambassador as diplomatic crisis escalates
Deputy prime minister ratchets up rhetoric and prospect is raised of end to deal that has curbed migration from Turkey to Greece

Jon Henley European affairs correspondent

Monday 13 March 2017 22.49 GMT First published on Monday 13 March 2017 10.58 GMT
Turkey has suspended high-level political contacts with the Netherlands and threatened to re-evaluate a key deal to halt the flow of migrants to Europe in a dramatic escalation of its diplomatic row with EU member states.

Numan Kurtulmuş, a deputy prime minister and chief government spokesman, said on Monday that the Dutch ambassador, who is on leave, would not be allowed to return in response to a ban on Turkish ministers speaking at rallies in the Netherlands.

Turkey would also close its airspace to Dutch diplomats, Kursulmuş said, adding: “There is a crisis and a very deep one. We didn’t create this crisis or bring to this stage … Those creating this crisis are responsible for fixing it.”

The spokesman’s remarks came hours after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan defied pleas from Brussels to tone down his rhetoric, repeating accusations of European “nazism” and warning that his ministers would take their treatment by the Dutch to the European court of human rights.

Erdoğan also accused Germany’s Angela Merkel of “supporting terrorists” and criticised her for backing the Dutch in the row over Turkish campaigning abroad before an April referendum on controversial plans to expand his powers.

“Mrs Merkel, why are you hiding terrorists in your country? … Why are you not doing anything?” Erdoğan said in an interview with Turkish television. He added that the position adopted by the Dutch and a number of other EU states amounted to nazism. “We can call this neo-nazism. A new nazism tendency.”

Merkel had earlier pledged her “full support and solidarity” to the Dutch, saying allegations made twice by Erdoğan this weekend that the Dutch government was acting like Nazis were “completely unacceptable”.

Turkish diaspora in Germany divided on powers for Erdoğan
Read more
The Turkish remarks followed a request on Monday by the EU’s foreign policy chief, Federica Mogherini, and enlargement commissioner, Johannes Hahn, for Ankara to “refrain from excessive statements and actions”. It was “essential to avoid further escalation and find ways to calm down the situation”, the two said in a joint statement. Jens Stoltenberg, Nato’s secretary general, urged all concerned to “show mutual respect and be calm”.

Turkey’s minister for EU affairs, Ömer Çelik, said sanctions against the Netherlands were now likely. “We will surely have sanctions against the latest actions by the Netherlands. We will answer them with these,” he said.

The Turkish justice minister, Bekir Bozdağ, said the country would “not allow anyone to play with the honour of the Turkish nation and Turkish state”, while Nurettin Canikli, a deputy prime minister, described Europe as a “very sick man”.

The threat made by Kurtulmuş to re-evaluate the deal the EU signed with Ankara in March 2016 that has successfully curbed migration from Turkey to Greece, then onward into the rest of the bloc, will be seen as particularly alarming.

Angela Merkel speaks during the international trade fair in Munich, Germany.
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Angela Merkel speaks during the international trade fair in Munich, Germany. Photograph: Michaela Rehle/Reuters
Dutch police used dogs and water cannon on Sunday to disperse demonstrators after Turkey’s family minister, Fatma Betül Sayan Kaya, was escorted out of the country and the foreign minister, Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu, denied permission to land. The ministers were due to address a rally for some of the 400,000 Turks living in the Netherlands, many of whom are able to vote in the 16 April referendum.

Daan Feddo Huisinga, the Dutch chargé d’affaires in Ankara, was summoned to the foreign ministry on Monday to receive formal protests over the “disproportionate, inhumane and humiliating” treatment of the protesters and the improper reception given to the ministers.

The Netherlands, Austria, Germany, Denmark and Switzerland – all of which have large Turkish immigrant communities – have cited security and other concerns as reasons not to allow Turkish officials to campaign in their countries. But with as many as 1.4 million Turkish voters in Germany alone, Erdoğan cannot afford to ignore the foreign electorate.

The standoff has further strained relations already frayed over human rights, while repeated indications from Erdoğan that he could personally try to address rallies in EU countries risk further inflaming the situation.

The row also looks likely to dim further Turkey’s prospects of joining the EU, a process that has been under way for more than 50 years. “The formal end of accession negotiations with Turkey now looks inevitable,” the German commentator Daniel Brössler wrote in the Süddeutsche Zeitung.

Austria’s chancellor, Christian Kern, called on Monday for an EU-wide ban on Turkish rallies, saying it would take pressure off individual countries. But Merkel’s chief of staff, Peter Altmaier, said that while accession talks could be halted, he had doubts as to whether the bloc should collectively decide on a rally ban.

Analysts said the Turkish president was using the crisis to show voters that his strong leadership was needed against a Europe he routinely presents as hostile.

Erdoğan is “looking for ‘imagined’ foreign enemies to boost his nationalist base in the run-up to the referendum,” said Soner Cagaptay, the director of the Turkish Research Programme at the Washington Institute.

Marc Pierini, the EU’s former envoy to Turkey, said he saw no immediate solution to the crisis because “the referendum outcome in Turkey is very tight and the leadership will do everything to ramp up the nationalist narrative to garner more votes”.

In the medium term, Pierini said: “One can hope the fever will subside. Yet bridges have been burned at a personal level: using a ‘nazi’ narrative is extreme … and will probably prevent any summit meeting between the EU and Turkey for a while.” Erdoğan last week accused Germany of “Nazi practices” after Çavuşoğlu was banned from speaking at a rally in Hamburg.

The Turkish president twice made the same claim of the Dutch on Saturday, describing them as “Nazi remnants” and telling a rally in Istanbul: “I thought nazism was over, but I was wrong. In fact, nazism is alive in the west.”

A police dog bites a demonstrator after riots broke out during a pro-Erdoğan demonstration in Rotterdam. Photograph: Peter Dejong/AP
Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister, who faces a strong far-right challenge in this week’s parliamentary elections and showed little desire to appease Turkey, demanded an apology for Erdoğan’s “totally unacceptable” jibe.

Denmark has also postponed a planned visit next weekend by the Turkish prime minister, Binali Yıldırım, saying the meeting could not be seen as “separate from the current Turkish attacks on Holland”.

European states are not entirely united: Çavuşoğlu himself called off a planned visit to Switzerland, despite the Swiss federal government saying there was “nothing to justify” cancelling it, after Zurich police expressed security concerns.

The French government also allowed Çavuşoğlu to address a rally in Metz on Sunday, but was strongly criticised by opposition politicians, who accused it of “flagrantly breaking with European solidarity” on the issue.

PS: "Ollande has nothing to lose.He's soon to be history with the worst ever ratings for a French pres. perhaps he is looking for some "Turkish delight" once he's been booted out of the palace Elysee!

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 15:11
by Philip

The first paragraph of his manifesto states: "Millions of Dutch citizens have simply had enough of the Islamisation of our country. Enough of mass immigration and asylum, terror, violence and insecurity."

While Mr Trump has his contentious travel ban on those from six predominantly Muslim countries, Mr Wilders wants to go a lot further than that.

He is vowing to "de-Islamise" the Netherlands by shutting mosques and Islamic schools, banning the Koran and having "zero asylum seekers and no immigrants anymore from Islamic countries".

Muslims make up about 6 per cent of the Dutch population, mostly from Moroccan and Turkish backgrounds.

While campaigning in February, Mr Wilders said, "there is a lot of Moroccan scum in Holland who make the streets unsafe, mostly young people — and that should change".

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 15:12
by kit
Turkey along with China is sending troop contigents for Pakistan's parade

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 21:33
by ramana
Philip, Before we are dead we will see Turkey out of NATO and invading Eastern Europe.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 14 Mar 2017 22:02
by Bheeshma
More likely in our lifetime Kurdistan will be born and turkey become a rump state.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 00:19
by ramana
Bheeshma wrote:More likely in our lifetime Kurdistan will be born and turkey become a rump state.

We have a thread on why Kurdistan is an Indian interest. However the issue is Kurds are turning jihadi.
They are even intimidating Yazdis in Delhi.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 00:26
by Bheeshma
True. kurds are not united. There is too much infighting between peshmarga and PKK, YPG. But I can't see things ending well for turkey.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 02:47
by kiranA
For years Turks were pleading, begging europe to take them as europeans and admit them to europe. They contributed maximum troops to NATO, made lots of changes to their laws to make them align to europe. But demands from europe are never ending - if they do that then do this. Turkey should apologise for armenia - did UK apologize for INdia ? turkey should deal with cyprus - spain dealt with basque ?
Turkey had enough. They are forging their own path with russia, middle east and china.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 02:50
by ramana
Yes the big change in Europe is both Russia and Turkey have quit their centuries quest to join Europe. And Europe hasn't understood that change.
Some US commentators get it.

In one way the anti-coup is a move against this quest to become European.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 02:56
by kiranA
ramana wrote:Yes the big change in Europe is both Russia and Turkey have quit their centuries quest to join Europe. And Europe hasn't understood that change.
Some US commentators get it.

In one way the anti-coup is a move against this quest to become European.

Elites of europe did understand it. But masses dont care. Referendum after referundum they defeated moves of turkey joining eu despite their leaders asking them to let referundum win.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 03:18
by Bheeshma
Why should EU allow turkey to join? Other than cheap manpower they really contribute nothing. This can be easily made up by eastern european nations. The more turkey pushes towards its islamic roots the faster it will be pushed out of NATO and out of europe.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 04:58
by Bhurishravas
Correct. Turkey should follow its own path. Since Erdogan is already on record that his party is going to bring up a pious generation, we know what that path is going to be.
And no, Turkey is not forging their path with Russia. Putin is not stupid. He has put his foot down in Manbij. And Erdogan is teaming up with the jokers of Kiev. The only real friend for Erdogan could be islamist states like Pakistan. Didnt Erdogan get his education at the feet of Hekmatyar?


Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 11:53
by Philip
Erdogan is well on the way to becoming the Hitler of the Muslim world,by his ranting and raving against the Europeans.One wouldn';t also be surprised if the ISIS "refugees" who are fleeing Syria and Iraq ,end up ultimately in Turkey for the Sultan to send into Europe!The European's trying to "do the right thing",by accepting hordes of refugees from the Islamic world are only ensuring their ultimate catastrophic fate. Unrest in the Balkans could be soon on the cards with Turkish mischief reopening old wounds.Europe however has started fighting back.The headscarf ban is a forerunner of more to come,sp. if the right gain power in the uopcoming elections. ... ourt-rules
Europe's right hails EU court's workplace headscarf ban ruling
European court of justice says garments can be banned as part of general policy covering religious and political symbols

PS: Fuhrer Erdogan,says that he knows the EU by the Srebrenica massacre,where Bosnian Muslims were allegedly massacred by Serbs ,while NATO stood idle,but the 8,000 Muslims killed in SB pale by comparison with one of the world's worst acts of genocide,the Armenian holocaust,where millions of Armenians were tortured,massacred and exiled by the Turks a century ago.2015 was the centenary of the genocide.I was in Paris and saw a memorial exhibition on the same.Very moving.On a personal note,my great-great grandmother was Armenian,a refugee from that genocide.India at one time had a huge fourishing Armenian community with large numbers in Calcutta,Bombay,Madras,Cochin,etc.My ancestor came to Cochin.

PPS:Wiki on the same.
Armenian Genocide
Part of the persecution of Armenians

Armenian civilians, escorted by Ottoman soldiers, marched through Harput (Kharpert) to a prison in nearby Mezireh (present-day Elâzığ), April 1915.

The Armenian Genocide (Armenian: Հայոց ցեղասպանություն, Hayots tseghaspanutyun), also known as the Armenian Holocaust, was the Ottoman government's systematic extermination of 1.5 million Armenians, mostly Ottoman citizens within the Ottoman Empire and its successor state, the Republic of Turkey. The starting date is conventionally held to be 24 April 1915, the day that Ottoman authorities rounded up, arrested, and deported 235 to 270 Armenian intellectuals and community leaders from Constantinople to the region of Ankara, the majority of whom were eventually murdered. The genocide was carried out during and after World War I and implemented in two phases: the wholesale killing of the able-bodied male population through massacre and subjection of army conscripts to forced labour, followed by the deportation of women, children, the elderly, and the infirm on death marches leading to the Syrian desert. Driven forward by military escorts, the deportees were deprived of food and water and subjected to periodic robbery, rape, and massacre.Other indigenous and Christian ethnic groups such as the Assyrians and the Ottoman Greeks were similarly targeted for extermination by the Ottoman government in the Assyrian genocide and the Greek genocide, and their treatment is considered by some historians to be part of the same genocidal policy.Most Armenian diaspora communities around the world came into being as a direct result of the genocide.

Raphael Lemkin was explicitly moved by the Armenian annihilation to define systematic and premeditated exterminations within legal parameters and to coin the word genocide in 1943. The Armenian Genocide is acknowledged to have been one of the first modern genocides,because scholars point to the organized manner in which the killings were carried out in order to eliminate the Armenians, and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust.

Turkey, the successor state of the Ottoman Empire, denies the word genocide as an accurate term for the mass killings of Armenians that began under Ottoman rule in 1915. It has in recent years been faced with repeated calls to recognize them as genocide.[26] To date, 29 countries have officially recognized the mass killings as genocide, as have most genocide scholars and historians.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 16:41
by JE Menon
For some clarity on the Turkish-Dutch spat:

1. Elections in Holland are today. General elections for the country's leadership.

2. It was in anticipation of this, and the distinct possibility of public unrest (as well as the fact that there is a legal grey area on the question of Dutch citizens of Turkish origin also maintaining Turkish citizenship), that the Dutch government requested the Turkish government not to campaign on Dutch territory physically over the referendum to expand Erdogan's powers. Be aware that dual nationality is not permitted in the Netherlands (with some exceptions ... ationality ), but any one of Turkish origin has citizenship of Turkey and voting rights as per that country's laws.

3. It is into this grey area which Erdogan's government has stepped in with its insistence that not only will they campaign physically on Dutch territory, despite the initial polite Dutch request to not do so, but that full fledged ministers will be doing it - namely the foreign minister and the minister for family affairs (IIRC).

4. Holland did not take this lightly, considering their own electoral situation. The so-called "extreme right wing" there (Geert Wilders) is gaining ground, against the centre-right orientation of the current Prime Minister Mark Rutte. It is a delicate balance, and Erdogan's injection of his country's politics into the local election environment in the Netherlands does not benefit the Dutch government in any way; and it plays nicely into Wilders' hands. (It is another matter entirely that Wilders' party, though considered extreme right wing and described as such, has a policy platform that super-liberal in many respects compared to many of the countries where the media actually label him extreme right).

5. So the Dutch government stuck to its word. It prevented the Turkish foreign minister from coming into the country, and repatriated the family affairs minister Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya after she travelled by road over the German border rather surreptitiously. It was reported that she travelled in multiple convoys to throw the Dutch authorities off track on her way to the Consulate in Rotterdam; she was intercepted, taken back to the German border and repatriated. Be aware, meanwhile, that Turkish television is beamed freely into homes in the Netherlands and there is no opposition to campaigning via electronic means by the Dutch government.

6. The Dutch action against the ministers sparked off riots in the port city of Rotterdam, which left the Dutch police (probably the most laid-back and relaxed police force in any major country) with little choice but to put an end to it by regular means of riot control; horse-mounted police, the use of police dogs, water cannon, etc. This link gives a fairly good picture of the atmosphere: ... d-row.html ... Rotterdam's Mayor Ahmed Abou Taleb (yes you read that right), a very well regarded politician in Holland, got the situation quickly under control with excellent policework as well. Abou Taleb, born in Morocco and the son of an Imam, and pointed out later that he had special police officers with permission to shoot on standby "in order to be sure that if it came to an encounter, we would have the upper hand". A very well considered and no-nonsense approach from him, for which the Dutch have a lot to be thankful for as the riots could easily have degenerated into something far uglier.

7. It is in this climate that Erdogan was busy labelling the Dutch, of all people, as "Nazi remnants" and "racists" and such like. Apart from the utter ludicrousness of the allegation, considering that the Dutch suffered enormously under Nazi occupation and resisted mightily against it, such statements simply fed into the fire of animosity and "whataboutery" (as our own infamous mainstream media call it) against Turkey that is anyway building in Europe. This is because of Erdogan's policies (a) against the Kurds, (b) in favour of ISIS in recent years, (c) that suggest moves away from democracy, and (d) a revival of what many consider to be latent Ottoman expansionist tendencies.

8. The Dutch government, which is very reserved and not much into hyperbole and drama, has been as composed as it is possible to be under such circumstances. The only "aggressive" comment, if one can call it that, that I have personally seen is one where the prime minister called on the Turkish leader to "calm down". At the moment, all the government seems to want to do is to go about it's own electoral business without this unwelcome Turkish intrusion - in every sense of the word. That was not achieved. The events of the last week are certain to have had an impact on the outcome, but I suspect not by much.

9. The question then is: what was Erdogan's motivation in stirring up this international political squall? There are only about 400,000 Turkish origin people in the Netherlands. It is not like their votes would have made a major dent in the results of his presidential referendum. What then? It was in all probability a campaign tactic, aimed at boosting votes locally within Turkey where his authoritarian ambitions are finding less traction than he may initially have hoped for. The tool used were the popular resentment against Europe, which has been growing - and hence the labels of "Nazism" and "racism" - both of which resonate keenly in the Turkish psyche. And the stage for the drama was the Netherlands, which was probably assessed as a country that would be least likely to retaliate with major impact. Remember, Germany which has a much larger Turkish-origin population was not the stage, although politically that would have been more appropriate in terms of vote generation in his favour. But Berlin can push back in a manner much harder than the Netherlands can. So the smaller fish was baited.

10. However, the Dutch influence has probably been underestimated. This entire drama, which is likely to die down in a couple of months maximum, is not going to help the Turkish leader. The real problem though is not that. The real problem is that it will not help Turkey as a country. Erdogan has through this incident (as in others in the past) undermined a little bit more the long-term interest of the country at the alter of his personal ego. Unsurprisingly sultan-like that.

Re: Turkey News, discussions, India Turkey Relations

Posted: 15 Mar 2017 16:55
by Singha
the kutta actually took a piece of the mans butt I saw that other pic. in return turks are holding demonstrations where they cut tulips and oranges with sharp knives in a show of force.